Chip with simple program for Toy

[Chris]

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[JM]

On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 20:24:40 -0800, pam wrote:

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[Tim Wescott]

On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 03:53:43 -0800, Dave.H wrote:

Isn't it unsafe to use a 60Hz transformer on 50Hz? I've been told
several times it is, unless that transformer is designed for both
frequencies. Guess I can always try it to find out.

It depends on how much margin is built in. Have you tried a web search
on old electronics places in Oz? Have you emailed AES to see if they can
help you out?

Try rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors -- perhaps there's an Australian who
frequents that group.

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consulting
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

 

[radiosrfun]

"Tim Wescott" <tim@seemywebsite.com> wrote in message
newsNWdnbp1n8NqF8janZ2dnUVZ_jidnZ2d@web-ster.com...

On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 03:53:43 -0800, Dave.H wrote:

Isn't it unsafe to use a 60Hz transformer on 50Hz? I've been told
several times it is, unless that transformer is designed for both
frequencies. Guess I can always try it to find out.

It depends on how much margin is built in. Have you tried a web search
on old electronics places in Oz? Have you emailed AES to see if they can
help you out?

Try rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors -- perhaps there's an Australian who
frequents that group.

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consulting
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

Seems to me, I've seen many items labeled for operation "AS" - 50-60 or
50/60 Hz. Seems to me also - years ago - I read there is a margin - call it
a fudge factor if you will - built in - to handle any variation from the
Power Company. Maybe those principles don't apply worldwide - I don't know.

My 2 cents - fwiw.

Lou

 

[BobG]

On Mon, 3 Dec 2007 17:14:21 -0800 (PST), TVisitor <tvisi...@gmail.com
wrote:
1. MPS-U45's are not cheap. I am having a problem finding them, or
their replacements. Can I use something else instead?

2. Instead, is there a reason I can't drive the 2N3055 by itself
directly off the 7416's? Would I need some extra logic?
================================================================

Seems like a logic level mosfet could replace the MPS and the
2N3055... just need something that turns on at 5V and handles the
current.

 

[poogie]

On Dec 4, 4:31 am, (Rubicon) wrote:

Hello,

I have am a little confused here about the inverting and non-inverting

mosfet drivers TC4429 and TC4420.

*********************************
From the Microchip datasheet:
The TC4429 is an inverting driver (pin-compatible
with the TC429), while the TC4420 is a non-inverting driver.
*********************************

Yet when I look at the functional block diagram of both types the
inverting 4429 has an inverter followed by another inverter so then it
must be a non-inverting driver and as the non-inverting 4420 has only
the latter inverter it must be an inverting driver. Is this correct or
am I reading it completely wrong?

www.ortodoxism.ro/datasheets/microchip/21419b.pdf

In addition if using a Microchip PIC to PWM a TC4429 (actually?)
inverting driver (the only mosfet driver I can find locally) that
contols a N-channel mosfet that controls a motor wouldn't you need to
reverse the PWM values and to keep the I/O pin high when not wanting
the motor on?

Any help appreciated.

Regards,

Andrew.

If I understand this correctly and the way I see the diagram, it is
correct. Did you take into account the final FET stage shifting the
signal 180 degrees from the input. As for putting another N Channel,
is it possible to use an inverter on the input of the TC4429 achieving
the same final result?
Let me know if I am understanding this right!
Poogie

 

[poogie]

On Dec 4, 8:46 am, NoS...@daqarta.com (Bob Masta) wrote:

On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 16:53:33 +0800, "Jacky" <j...@knight.com> wrote:
I reckon today's computers use constant voltage and current...
So the power consumption is constant.

No way! Modern computers have quite elaborate power management
systems. The CPU itself has a wide range of power levels depending on
the moment-to-momenf computation demands, plus the rest of the
computer has things like hard drives, DVD, etc, whose demands change.

But why today's mobos use 3-phase (or more) power supply to stabilize the
current...
Are there anything wrong with the above statements?
Thanks
Jack

They use switchmode supplies that maintain the *voltage* in the face
or changing current needs.

Best regards,

Bob Masta

DAQARTA v3.50
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com
Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, FREE Signal Generator
Science with your sound card!

if you draw out a three phase on paper you will see the average is
higher and more consistent than single. This is especially useful when
you use it to power dc.

 

[poogie]

On Dec 4, 5:26 am, Bob Woodward <"Bob Woodward"@no.org> wrote:

Brandon wrote:
In the circuit I am working on, I am taking an audio signal and, among
other things, running the signal through some opamps (sometimes for
amplification, sometimes for buffering) that are powered by a 9V DC
power source. When I ground components, can they all be run directly
to the ground bus without affecting one another? What I am afraid of
is losing the buffering I am getting by using opamps by having them
share the ground bus directly.

As long as your GND is sufficiently low-Z there is no problem.
This is achieved by wide, short traces or a ground-plane on the pcb.
avoid creating a loop in the ground circuit.

When using ONE 9V power supply you have to create 1/2 supply as a
reference. Make sure this one is also low-Z, at least for audio.

When using just 9V power, your choice of op-amps is limited and
specially low-noise and low distortion don't match with low supply.

The second question I have has to do with picking resistors for use
with an opamp. In an inverting configuration, an opamp's Vout =
Vin(Rfeedback/Rinput) so to achieve a gain of 10, your feedback
resistor would simply have to be 10x that of our input resistance.
But what other considerations are there in terms of power consumption/
efficiency, noise, etc.?

To low values => not enough drive current
To high values => noise + limited bandwidth
2kOhm - 100kOhm is OK
op-amp outputs driving an interconnection-cable should have at least
some 100 Ohm series resistor to avoid oscillation.

The final question I have has to do with reducing interference. In
audio applications, it's common to use high and low pass filters to
get rid of interference at "unwanted frequencies" like radio
stations. In cases where there are a lot of "stages" (separated by
opamps in this case,) is it common to filter those unwanted
frequencies at each stage or would it be acceptable to just filter
when the signal first comes in? Pristine audio is my goal in this
project.

RF rejection of inputs by using inductors, ferrite-cores, small caps.
Op-amps with moderate to high gain or driving loads should have some
22pF compensation in their feedback.
Avoid multiple filtering ( low-pass or high-pass ) at the same frequency
If your project needs to pass official tests concerning EMC, also
apply RF filtering of outputs and supply. There is a lot of info
on the web about this.

Robert

Ditto with Robert. The filtering should be evaluated at the output
stage of each amp. You do not want to feed unwanted signals into the
next stage Unless they are so small you need to amplify them out. As
Robert indicated Low Z. no antennas and sometimes using larger wattage
resistors help with noise e.g. 1/2 watt instead of 1/4.
As far as amplifying radio stations, I think your speakers will only
go to 20k in frequency which rids that problem. Even if they get
through you will not hear them!

 

[Jamie]

BobG wrote:

On Mon, 3 Dec 2007 17:14:21 -0800 (PST), TVisitor <tvisi...@gmail.com
wrote:

1. MPS-U45's are not cheap. I am having a problem finding them, or
their replacements. Can I use something else instead?

2. Instead, is there a reason I can't drive the 2N3055 by itself
directly off the 7416's? Would I need some extra logic?

================================================================
Seems like a logic level mosfet could replace the MPS and the
2N3055... just need something that turns on at 5V and handles the
current.
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/FD/FDB7030BL.pdf

If you can figure out how to integrate that into your
circuit..
that's only good for 30 volts Vds how ever, it will
do 60 amps continuos, 180 amps pulsed and only requires 4.5 volts at
the Vgs to turn at a whooping low 12 mohm. (0.012) ohms.
and its 1.39 at mouser or at least it use to be



--
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"
http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5

 

On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 13:22:55 -0800 (PST), poogie <lukebates@excite.com>
wrote:

On Dec 4, 4:31 am, (Rubicon) wrote:
Hello,

I have am a little confused here about the inverting and non-inverting

mosfet drivers TC4429 and TC4420.

*********************************
From the Microchip datasheet:
The TC4429 is an inverting driver (pin-compatible
with the TC429), while the TC4420 is a non-inverting driver.
*********************************

Yet when I look at the functional block diagram of both types the
inverting 4429 has an inverter followed by another inverter so then it
must be a non-inverting driver and as the non-inverting 4420 has only
the latter inverter it must be an inverting driver. Is this correct or
am I reading it completely wrong?

www.ortodoxism.ro/datasheets/microchip/21419b.pdf

In addition if using a Microchip PIC to PWM a TC4429 (actually?)
inverting driver (the only mosfet driver I can find locally) that
contols a N-channel mosfet that controls a motor wouldn't you need to
reverse the PWM values and to keep the I/O pin high when not wanting
the motor on?

Any help appreciated.

Regards,

Andrew.

If I understand this correctly and the way I see the diagram, it is
correct. Did you take into account the final FET stage shifting the
signal 180 degrees from the input. As for putting another N Channel,
is it possible to use an inverter on the input of the TC4429 achieving
the same final result?
Let me know if I am understanding this right!
Poogie

Poogie,

Sorry I didn't take that into account and you are quite correct an
inverter at the input would achieve the final result.

Silly to post when I'm tired.

Regards,

Andrew.

 

[Ross Herbert]

On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 12:11:05 -0800 (PST), BobG <bobgardner@aol.com>
wrote:

On Mon, 3 Dec 2007 17:14:21 -0800 (PST), TVisitor
tvisi...@gmail.com
wrote:
1. MPS-U45's are not cheap. I am having a problem finding them,
or
their replacements. Can I use something else instead?

2. Instead, is there a reason I can't drive the 2N3055 by itself
directly off the 7416's? Would I need some extra logic?
================================================================
Seems like a logic level mosfet could replace the MPS and the
2N3055... just need something that turns on at 5V and handles the
current.

While a possible solution, a logic level mosfet would introduce other
problems. The OP said the power device (2N3055) is several feet from
the driver transistor (MPS-U45). The obvious place to install the
mosfet would be where the 3055 is currently situated, and since the
mounting arrangements of TO3 and TO220 devices are entirely different
there is an obvious mechanical problem to be overcome. The next
problem to overcome is that driving the gate over the long length of
conductor currently between the MPS-U45 and the base of the 3055 would
require some noise/spike suppression added to protect the gate of the
mosfet. Since the 3055 is doing splendidly as a solenoid driver as is,
and there is no shortage of suitable drop-in NPN darlingtons which
will do the job of the MPS-U45 at low cost, why change anything?
Change for change-sake, or modernity, is not always a wise solution.

 

[Clint Sharp]

In message <475515b7.7069014@news.netaccess.co.nz>, ?@?.?.invalid writes

Hello,

I have am a little confused here about the inverting and non-inverting

mosfet drivers TC4429 and TC4420.
Yet when I look at the functional block diagram of both types the
inverting 4429 has an inverter followed by another inverter so then it
must be a non-inverting driver and as the non-inverting 4420 has only
the latter inverter it must be an inverting driver. Is this correct or
am I reading it completely wrong?
Umm, my understanding of the block diagram is that the 4429 has three

inverters, the input looks like a schmitt input NAND gate with both
inputs wired together, therefore an inverter. The 4420 has only the NAND
and the inverter so that's 'true' logic. Maybe I'm missing something as
well but that's how I'd read it?

--
Clint Sharp

 

[Bob Masta]

On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 15:14:46 +0200, jeremy <spam@spam.com> wrote:

hi
i am using a lockin amplifier for the 1st time other than a canned college
lab demo
i have a 5mV signal from a strain gage that is driven with 10Vpp at 1kHz
or whatever i choose.
the 5mV is increased to 5.01mV when i add some weight to the arm the
gage is weighing.
i wanted to increase sensitivity of this reading with the LIA since there
is noise in the next digit, i.e.
i read 5.01mV +- 0.001mV.

But i seem to go out of range (overload) before reading any weight change.
do i need to get a 0.000V average signal first, and put this into
the LIA?

The 4 strain gages are in a full wheatstone bridge configuration.
The 10V 1kHz signal is sent to the bridge and to the LIA 'reference' input,
5mV 1kHz bridge output sent to to LIA signal in. I adjust the LIA phase
for max output,
zero the signal with the internal LIA offset, and increase sensitivity
until i overload.
then i back off the sensitivity so theres no overload. at this point i see
no change in output
with change in weight. the LIA sensitivity is generally 30mV at this
point, whereas
the signal I want to measure is 0.01mV or less, so it seems natural i wont
get a change in
output. the only thing i can think of is i must 'balance the bridge' to
get 0.00V output, and
amplify this to higher levels e.g. at the 0.01mV level.
is this right?

Finally, having read a primer that suggests using 'offset' and 'expand'
for low-noise small-change signals
such as mine, do I need an LIA with 'expand', which seems to be an output
amplifier (after the lockin stage)?
My old analog lockins have only offset and input amplification
(sensitivity), but no 'expand' function.

What happens when you change the lock-in offset? Depending
on how that is applied, that may be all you need. But I'm not
especially hopeful, since it probably just applies to the
metered output... essentially a zero-adjust for the meter.
You need gain after that, which is "expand".

For those who haven't encountered lock-in amps before, what
they do is essentially chop the input at the applied reference
frequency, then amplify, low-pass filter, and meter it. (The
"lock-in" part of the name is a red herring.) The reference frequency
is derived from the same source that excites the sensor (or whatever).
The chopping action essentially multiplies the input signal by the
reference frequency. (Modern units do an actual multiply.)
This produces a DC signal proportional to any input component at
the reference frequency, while all the product sum-and-difference
components are at higher frequencies that are easily removed via
the low-pass filter. Lock-ins can give stupendous noise rejection
if you set the filter bandwidth narrow enough, such that you can
extract signals that are more than 100 dB below the noise.

But the lock-in is handling the full signal range. If you want better
resolution you must either balance the strain gage bridge first
(as suggested) and increase the sensitivity, OR you *might* be able to
use an external meter with more resolution. You might need to
increase the time constant for that, to further reduce last-digit
noise, assuming it is signal-related noise and not from the lock-in
itself. I assume you have already tried increasing the TC to reduce
last-digit noise in the lock-in's onw meter, but this is still worth a
try with an external meter.

If the lock-in offset adjust applies to the external output, then an
external meter with no more digits than the lock-in can still be used
by cranking up its sensitivity... essentially adding "expand".

Best regards,


Bob Masta

DAQARTA v3.50
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com
Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, FREE Signal Generator
Science with your sound card!

 

[BobW]

"Bob Masta" <NoSpam@daqarta.com> wrote in message
news:4756ab11.3122477@news.sysmatrix.net...

[snip]

For those who haven't encountered lock-in amps before, what
they do is essentially chop the input at the applied reference
frequency, then amplify, low-pass filter, and meter it. (The
"lock-in" part of the name is a red herring.) The reference frequency
is derived from the same source that excites the sensor (or whatever).
The chopping action essentially multiplies the input signal by the
reference frequency. (Modern units do an actual multiply.)
This produces a DC signal proportional to any input component at
the reference frequency, while all the product sum-and-difference
components are at higher frequencies that are easily removed via
the low-pass filter. Lock-ins can give stupendous noise rejection
if you set the filter bandwidth narrow enough, such that you can
extract signals that are more than 100 dB below the noise.

[snip]

Best regards,


Bob Masta

This multiplication to isolate an individual frequency is essentially how
the Fourier transform works. What advantage do these "lockin" amps have,
today, vs. doing the A->D conversion and then an FFT?

Thanks, Bob.
Bob

 

[Rich The Newsgroup Wacko]

On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 01:48:12 -0800, Dave.H wrote:

I was looking at that stepdown convertor. Should I power it directly
from that, and remove the old transformer, I've been told it's an
isolation transformer. Since the transmitter's designed to be installed
on a wood base high voltage exposed, it would need one. But I'm gonna
install it in a plastic box for safety reasons (with two very
inquisitive cats, we can't have exposed high voltage like that.)

Cats loose in the house? I thought that was what exposed HV was supposed
to take care of! >:->

Cheers!
Rich

 

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[w_tom]

On Dec 4, 3:53 am, "Jacky" <j...@knight.com> wrote:

I reckon today's computers use constant voltage and current...
So the power consumption is constant.
But why today's mobos use 3-phase (or more)power supplyto stabilize the
current...
Are there anything wrong with the above statements?

Computers use constant voltage and widely varying current just as
your house uses constant water pressure and widely varying water
flow. Your house has a regulator to maintain water pressure. Your
computer has power supplies to stabilize voltage.

Computers don't use 3-phase. Home traditionally use two phase
electricity. Computers are powered only from one of those two phases.
Power supply output has no phases because it is not AC; it is DC.
What exactly is your question?

 

[Eeyore]

Jacky wrote:

I reckon today's computers use constant voltage and current...
So the power consumption is constant.

No. Modern cpus (and doubtless other parts of the PC too) have quite
elaborate power management schemes these days.

But why today's mobos use 3-phase (or more) power supply to stabilize the
current...

No they don't. The AC supply is assuredly single phase. There a number of
different DC voltage outputs to suit the various differing requirements of
the components.

Are there anything wrong with the above statements?

Everything.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

w_tom wrote:

Home traditionally use two phase electricity.

In the USA.

In Europe and many (most?) other places it's single phase to homes.

Graham

 

On Dec 5, 6:19 pm, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

w_tom wrote:
Home traditionally use two phase electricity.

In the USA.

In Europe and many (most?) other places it's single phase to homes.

Graham

Keep in mind that '2 phase' power in American homes is very similar to
what you use. We just have a center tap on the 240 to get the 120
times 2.

But, in all my Athlon PCs (and I would bet Intel does it too), it uses
a 3 phase converter to make the 50+ amp 1.65 Volt core power supply

GG