Chip with simple program for Toy

[BobW]

"John" <jmuchow@SPAMMENOTcamlight.com> wrote in message
news:05gbm3tkqnrlo95lbpbf1sbp321n70op84@4ax.com...

You could try sci.electronics.equipment

NO, that group is for test gear, production equipment,
that sort of thing--NOT for consumer audio gear.

YES. While most of the posts are for the gear types you mentioned,
there is nothing preventing the OP from posting his question there. If
no one has an answer, they don't have to respond.

It's an invaluable resource for finding other sources of that manual
he's looking for, even if none of the posters there has it.



If you are going to advise people to post to additional groups,
it would be smart to see where they have already posted.
http://groups.google.com/groups/search?enc_author=KwbQRhgAAACeN703YfZIj26T1MbeqP7AtiDKbEn1fjJfYkQTWXi1Vg&scoring=d&filter=0&num=100
(It would be good if the OP would mention where all HE has posted.)

What?? I totally disagree. It is not for me to research where an OP
has posted before I respond. Though I'm glad you have the time to do
so and encourage you to continue to police the posts here.

I do agree that if the OP wants to mention where they have posted,
that's always nice.



Also give the forums at http://www.diyaudio.com/ a try,
That's apt as well.

I'm glad you agree. Did you have any recommendations for the OP or
were you just going to comment on how others should post?

John

John,

Jeff is merely documenting this so you'll know how to live your life when
he's not around.

Bob

 

[John]

As noted, the OP has spewed this all over Usenet.
If he hadn't posted it to a single group each time
like a clueless n00b, this would be obvious to all.

Seems that he just posted as he came across each group. And he did
say he was new to Usenet.

I definitely agree though that multi-posting prevents us from learning
from the responses of others. And even makes it harder for him to see
if there have been any responses, etc. The OP should have been
cross-posted instead and your Wikipedia post will definitely help Nick
in learning that.

John

 

[Michael Black]

John (jmuchow@SPAMMENOTcamlight.com) writes:

You could try sci.electronics.equipment

NO, that group is for test gear, production equipment,
that sort of thing--NOT for consumer audio gear.

YES. While most of the posts are for the gear types you mentioned,
there is nothing preventing the OP from posting his question there. If
no one has an answer, they don't have to respond.

Of course there's "now way to prevent" people from posting, but that

does not mean they belong there.

I will point you to Mark Zenier's guide to the sci.electronics.* hierarchy
at
ftp://ftp.eskimo.com/u/m/mzenier/seguide9706.txt
and I will make it simple and quote the purpose of .equipment:

sci.electronics.equipment Test, lab, & industrial electronic products.

"Discussion of the application and internal operation and
relative merits of test equipment, laboratory equipment, and
industrial equipment. This is not a forsale group.
Buying/selling is supposed to occur in the relocated
misc.industry.electronics.marketplace group. (Discussions on the
relative merits of various consumer electronics equipment are
better held in the groups in the rec hierarchy devoted to those
topics.)"

Michael

 

[JeffM]

John wrote:

Also give the forums at http://www.diyaudio.com/ a try,

JeffM wrote:
That's apt as well.

I'm glad you agree. Did you have any recommendations for the OP

As noted, the OP has spewed this all over Usenet.
If he hadn't posted it to a single group each time
like a clueless n00b, this would be obvious to all.

 

[John]

Of course there's "now way to prevent" people from posting, but that
does not mean they belong there.

I will point you to Mark Zenier's guide to the sci.electronics.* hierarchy
at
ftp://ftp.eskimo.com/u/m/mzenier/seguide9706.txt
and I will make it simple and quote the purpose of .equipment:

sci.electronics.equipment Test, lab, & industrial electronic products.

"Discussion of the application and internal operation and
relative merits of test equipment, laboratory equipment, and
industrial equipment. This is not a forsale group.
Buying/selling is supposed to occur in the relocated
misc.industry.electronics.marketplace group. (Discussions on the
relative merits of various consumer electronics equipment are
better held in the groups in the rec hierarchy devoted to those
topics.)"

Michael

Thanks for making it simple Michael.

If posting at s.e.e, the OP could mention that he does not want to
discuss the relative merits of the Akai equipment he has (as Mark
Zenier mentions that folks should do elsewhere), just find a manual
for it and say that he felt the readers of s.e.e might be an
incredible source of info for this.

As most readers of s.e.e have probably needed manuals many times in
their careers, IMHO it's not a resource that should be ignored and
that many people would be glad to help. Of course, others might tell
him that his post was inappropriate. All of it's just part of the fun
and adventure of posting on Usenet.

John

 

[JeffM]

Michael Black wrote:

Of course there's "now way to prevent" people from posting,
but that does not mean they belong there.
[...]Mark Zenier's guide to the sci.electronics.* hierarchy[...]
sci.electronics.equipment Test, lab, & industrial electronic products.
"Discussion of the application and internal operation and
relative merits of test equipment, laboratory equipment, and
industrial equipment[...]

John wrote:
If posting at s.e.e,

Check the name of this group again.

the OP could mention that he does not want to
discuss the relative merits of the Akai equipment he has

Evading the point.

(as Mark Zenier mentions that folks should do elsewhere),

Now you're back on point.

The reason numerous groups were formed
is so that queries could be TARGETED. Spewing defeats that.
If *everyone* did that, Usenet would look like a complete mess.

and say that he felt the readers of s.e.e
might be an incredible source of info for this.

Black has already delineated *can* and *should*.

http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:WF5gnmcb7gYJ:www.imdb.com/title/tt0107290/quotes+your.scientists.were.so.preoccupied.with.whether.or.not.they.could+Ian.Malcolm+they-didn't-stop-to-think-if-they-should

As most readers of s.e.e have probably needed manuals
many times in their careers,

Evasion again.

IMHO it's not a resource that should be ignored

*Humble* is the only apt part of that--everything else is nonsense.

and that many people would be glad to help.

The OP is a clueless selfish prick.

The way he has spewed this everywhere
is a broad application of your proposal.
It looks STUPID and SELFISH because IT IS.

With luck, he'll be gone next week, never to return.
..
..
The notation in your blockquotes seems to have
a minimum of 3 greater-thans for a previous poster.
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.basics/msg/c585d00eaf1eea52?dmode=source
Is this a bizarre way you have configured your newsreader
or are you doing this nonsense manually?

 

[John]

If posting at s.e.e,

Check the name of this group again.

If you're going to try to call someone on something, please check
first. My comment was in reference to the OP's post, NOT posting
here.

the OP could mention that he does not want to
discuss the relative merits of the Akai equipment he has

Evading the point.

Perhaps not directly related to your point, but a new point of mine.

And how does your comment relate to anything being discussed? Doesn't
any of the Usenet etiquette you keep referring to mention
signal-to-noise ratios?

(as Mark Zenier mentions that folks should do elsewhere),

Now you're back on point.
The reason numerous groups were formed
is so that queries could be TARGETED. Spewing defeats that.
If *everyone* did that, Usenet would look like a complete mess.

Very good point.

As most readers of s.e.e have probably needed manuals
many times in their careers,

Evasion again.

LOL, this is a directly-related comment and completely appropriate and
related to the topic at hand. There is no evasion because there is
nothing to evade. Please see my signal-to-noise ratio comment above.

IMHO it's not a resource that should be ignored

*Humble* is the only apt part of that--everything else is nonsense.

Ahh...personal attacks. The refuge of the desperate. Please keep your
musings to the topics at hand. Spewing stuff like this only reduces
any decent arguments you might have.

The notation in your blockquotes seems to have
a minimum of 3 greater-thans for a previous poster.
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.basics/msg/c585d00eaf1eea52?dmode=source
Is this a bizarre way you have configured your newsreader
or are you doing this nonsense manually?

OMG, you're hysterical! How much free time do you have?!?

As all of this is adding absolutely nothing to s.e.b, if you have any
responses I suggest we move this to e-mail.

John

 

[Dystopia]

On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:34:24 +0000, Dystopia <xxx@dsl.pipex.com>
wrote:

"Dystopia" <xxx@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:mrhrl3djsk3ao8kmfjkfhbcuj5a8guv98r@4ax.com...
I have a motor home which has the main battery for the engine and an
auxiliary battery to supply the lighting etc in the living area. With
the ignition off a relay switches the auxiliary battery to supply the
living area but when the vehicle is running the relay connects the
auxiliary battery in parallel with the main battery so that it is
charged. The circuit is badly designed because if the auxiliary
battery is flat and the main battery is fully charged (which it always
is) there is a very high current surge from the main battery to the
auxiliary which blows the 30A inline fuse. I, therefore, need to
insert a circuit to restrict the current to say 20A max.

Can anyone say where there is a suitable circuit diagram on the web?

Thanks for all the ideas. An isolator is the real answer and if I was
designing it from scratch that is what I would use but the relay
serves as an isolator albeit a very poor one. I had thought of using
a resistance to limit the flow and the bulb is a good idea but I am
concerned about the heat generated in the small space where the
circuits are installed.

For info. I have draw a wiring diagram of the circuit, as it is, and
put it here:

http://vanwiring.hobby-site.com

I had thought in terms of a simple circuit using a 2N3055 with a zener
in the common base circuit and if you scroll down below the wiring
diagram on the web site I have sketched what I mean. Anyone any ideas
about this one please?

As I have written a resistive device would radiate too much heat for
the confined space I have to install a circuit. I did not think that
my problem was very demanding and am surprised that no one has come up
with an active circuit so I have installed a large choke in series
with the fuse hoping that this will be sufficient to remove the spike,
time will tell.

 

[ehsjr]

Dystopia wrote:

On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:34:24 +0000, Dystopia <xxx@dsl.pipex.com
wrote:


"Dystopia" <xxx@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:mrhrl3djsk3ao8kmfjkfhbcuj5a8guv98r@4ax.com...

I have a motor home which has the main battery for the engine and an
auxiliary battery to supply the lighting etc in the living area. With
the ignition off a relay switches the auxiliary battery to supply the
living area but when the vehicle is running the relay connects the
auxiliary battery in parallel with the main battery so that it is
charged. The circuit is badly designed because if the auxiliary
battery is flat and the main battery is fully charged (which it always
is) there is a very high current surge from the main battery to the
auxiliary which blows the 30A inline fuse. I, therefore, need to
insert a circuit to restrict the current to say 20A max.

Can anyone say where there is a suitable circuit diagram on the web?

Thanks for all the ideas. An isolator is the real answer and if I was
designing it from scratch that is what I would use but the relay
serves as an isolator albeit a very poor one. I had thought of using
a resistance to limit the flow and the bulb is a good idea but I am
concerned about the heat generated in the small space where the
circuits are installed.

For info. I have draw a wiring diagram of the circuit, as it is, and
put it here:

http://vanwiring.hobby-site.com

I had thought in terms of a simple circuit using a 2N3055 with a zener
in the common base circuit and if you scroll down below the wiring
diagram on the web site I have sketched what I mean. Anyone any ideas
about this one please?


As I have written a resistive device would radiate too much heat for
the confined space I have to install a circuit. I did not think that
my problem was very demanding and am surprised that no one has come up
with an active circuit so I have installed a large choke in series
with the fuse hoping that this will be sufficient to remove the spike,
time will tell.

You could use the resistive limiting, and use a circuit
to spread the charging out over time so that the temperature
does not increase as much.

But I'm curious. If, as you say, the real answer is
an isolator, why not use that?

Ed

 

[BobW]

Control Systems Engineering. Author: Norman S. Nise

I took a control systems class that Norm Nise taught. Small world, eh?

Bob

 

[HapticZ]

geeez, did they actually wake up!

naw, must have been the smell of money!



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news:f2caac55-bdf9-4c57-8b8e-ba9d9756dd86@m34g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...

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[gearhead]

On Dec 25, 1:53 pm, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:55:26 -0800 (PST)) it happened gearhead
nos...@billburg.com> wrote in
42af9874-14ca-4c47-b464-9056bead4...@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>:





On Dec 25, 11:33 am, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 25 Dec 2007 10:19:46 -0800 (PST)) it happened gearhea> >d
nos...@billburg.com> wrote in
24e9795e-2a3a-4aa1-bc66-98eb706ec...@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com>:

I know next to nothing about this, so I don't have an answer.  I do
have a very simple question.  At 100 kHz, wouldn't say a .1 uF cap
have high enough reactance to swamp the ESR?  Seems like you'd need
megahertz, maybe even hundreds of megahertz, to be sure the resistive
component of a small ceramic cap's impedance would exceed its
capacitive component by order(s) of magnitude.  But maybe then ESL
would interfere...
I'm just a babe in the woods guys, don't toast me.

It is not the frequency, it is the rise time of the square wave.
If the wave rises in 1 femto second, the frequency can still be 1 Hz only.
For a capacitor, to charge in a short time the formula
Q = C x U = i x t
shows that the voltage across the cap is U = (i x t) / C
For normal values of 'i' and very short 't', U will be close to zero.

A typical example:
1 uF, 1 us time, 1 mA, then after 1 uS the voltage across the cap will be:
U = 1 mA x    1 uS /    1 uF = 1 mV
U = .001 x .000001 / .000001 = .001 V

For a circuit like this:

Uin ----- C ------- out
            |        
            R1
            |
           ///

For an input voltage change like this:
  ________________________________________
 |
 |
 |  
 |
_|

The voltage across the resistor will look like this:

   peak = Uin
 |\
 | \
 |  \
 |     \  
_|         \_________________

If the capacitor has internal loss in th2 form of a resistance for example> >,
then there is a voltage divider, and the circuit looks like this:

U in ---R2 - C ------- out
               |        
               R1
               |
              ///

The peak output is now no longer Uin, but R1 / (R1 + R2) x Uin.

   peak = Uin x R1 / (R1 + R2)
 |\
 |  \
 |      \  
_|           \_________________

Okay, the OP's circuit uses a voltage divider like you described
(actually some kind of bridge arrangement) and a peak hold.
It makes sense that you need a fast-rising edge, to keep delta V on
the cap low enough to maintain a linear relationship to C.

You mean to R?

But you
need so much speed to do this, that I wonder if the cap's inductance
will affect the measurement.

If the cap is inductive is is also defective
Some rolled foil caps, where the contact on the side of the foil gets lose,
can make inductors.
The circuit detects series 'impedance' in a sense.
In a good capacitor series impedance is close to zero.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

All right, let me see if I get this.
For the purpose of understanding the circuit, the real capacitor under
test is modeled as a resistor in series with an ideal capacitor. By
design, the circuit measures series resistance Rs by using it to
unbalance a bridge. For this to work, the circuit has to see Rs as
having one end connected to the bridge and the other end connected to
ground. Thus series capacitance Cs has to be invisible to the
circuit. It has to look like a short.
The circuit demands the capacitor look like a short by by having the
pulse so fast, and the charge taken on by the capacitor so
insignificant, that there is effectively no change in the capacitor's
voltage. Otherwise, it corrupts the measurement. That's what I meant
about the need for the "fast-rising edge."
Is the circuit so fast that picofarad caps won't take on some small
voltage?
*
By "cap's inductance" I meant _parasitic_ inductance, and the
inductance in the cap itself may only be a small part of the total
parasitic inductance of leads, binding posts, wires connecting them to
the circuit board, and traces. Or even jumpers and alligator clips.
This is after all a hobbyist project.

 

[Daveolla]

On Dec 24, 5:42 am, Jean-Yves <no_pub_for_jypoc...@free.fr> wrote:

In article <476EE8F6.D9D86...@earthlink.net>,
 "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net> wrote:





Jean-Yves wrote:

In article <fkiuma$og...@aioe.org>,
 Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm...@yahoo.com> wrote:

robb wrote:

so i googled for some ESR meter plans and settled on this one

 http://ludens.cl/Electron/esr/esr.html

My opinion, It does not come close to actually giving you a
true
ESR reading.
 All the design is doing is relying on high valued capacitors
assumed
to still have life and hoping to display the effective series
resistance
in them by assuming the Xc to be at a very low value with the
50khz
referenced used.
   In practice, that isn't a real ESR meter.

so this luden's ESR  gives no useful info about a cap  ? and  its
a waste of time design ?

Thanks for advice Jamie,
robb

I bought recently this one :

http://www.m3electronix.com/lcr.html
(the french version but it works the same)

nice kit, and with the esr meter you have for the same price of most of
esr meters kits , a precise LCR meter !!!
this is a valuable instrument I really enjoy mine !

   It only has a 12.5 KHz maximum test frequecy.

it can go to 25khz with the user selectable frequency
yes it's less than the 100khz esr meters often use
but it's enought to measure dead caps !
and far more precise to measure other caps and inductors !
I also have a small analog esr meter I build
(the one from poptronix)
and I never use it anymore...

--
Jean-Yves.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Greetings, what is wrong with the Poptronix version..........details
anyone (I've had one as an ongoing project for awhile, I had the
bright idea a couple of years ago to put it in a probe style case with
small meter)? It also has a led for DC shorts.
Dave

 

[Ross Herbert]

On Thu, 3 Jan 2008 15:42:42 -0800 (PST), kreed <kenreed1999@gmail.com> wrote:

:
:Ross Herbert wrote:
:> To those usenet people using Forte Agent as their news reader, or for
:> email, I wonder if you are aware of a really BAD feature....
:>
:> To illustrate, let me relate the following example of using Agent as a
:> mail client where files are attached to an email.
:>
:> I attempted to send an email with attachments but the message was
:> rejected by the ISP news server (file too big) and sending was
:> terminated. I went to Outbox where I intended to delete the
:> attachments from the offending email and then re-attach a smaller
:> number of files before re-sending. Agent allowed me to delete the
:> attachments all right, but no warning is given that doing so actually
:> deletes them from the source folder. Not only are the attached source
:> files deleted from the computer but they are not even sent to the
:> Windows Recycle bin from where they can be recovered. They are purged
:> completely from the hard disk.
:>
:> I reported this set of circumstances to Forte Agent support and this
:> is the reply I received;
:>
:> QUOTE:
:> If you told Agent to delete saved attachments, then it did so. There
:> is no distinction between attachments on sent or received messages.
:>
:> Attachments on outbound messages are not "attached" until actually
:> sent, and then only on the outbound data stream. By telling Agent to
:> delete the attachments, you told Agent to delete the source files.
:>
:> Agent does not, and never did, use the recycle bin.
:>
:>
:> --
:> Jeffrey Kaplan Agent Support Team www.forteinc.com
:> UNQUOTE:
:>
:> So, if you use Agent as your mail client and wish to protect your
:> valuable source files, NEVER elect to use the "Delete Attachments"
:> from a post or email, because that is exactly what it does - DELETES
:> the source files from the computer with no way of recovery.
:>
:> I'll stick to using Eudora for email from now on because it doesn't
:> have fatal features like that in Agent. In Eudora if I wish to delete
:> an email from either the Out box, either having been already sent or
:> queued for sending later, then ONLY that email is deleted to the
:> Eudora Trash bin. Any attachments to that email are left alone in
:> their source folder and they are not purged from the hard disk. Emails
:> deleted from the Trash box are sent to the Windows Recycle bin from
:> where they can be recovered if required.
:>
:> Ross Herbert
:------------------
:
:Another bad feature of this program (agent) is that it does keep
:deleted (even deleted through the "trash" feature") messages, incoming
:emails etc in its database - even ones that are 2-3 years old, maybe
:more. These can be recovered using forensic programs.

Under Tools/Options/Navigation & menus/Confirmations you can elect to delete
messages PERMANENTLY. I assume that this means that it will simply mark them as
deleted on the hard disk and they won't appear in any file management utility
such as Windows Explorer. However, they will still exist on the hard disk until
overwritten.

:
:This INCLUDES attatchments - so the good news is that if you have lost
:any, you can probably get them back.

Yes, you can, provided that you haven't overwritten them with some new data. As
soon as I realised that my source files were missing I used a freeware program
called restoration.exe to recover the deleted files.

:
:This could cause extreme future problems with confidential business or
:commercial information etc. Using the "compact database" feature is
:supposed to clear this up, but I cant guarantee that it will
:
:Its quite possible that all (non web based) email programs do this, so
:be warned.
:

Agree entirely.

 

[komalselva]

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[Sambo]

Charles wrote:

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 13:35:36 -0500, Sambo <sambo@voidstar.com> wrote:


I have tried replacing my heatsink and fan many times now , but
non if the new heatsinks were accepted by the motherboard.
When I try to boot the power goes out after 1 or 2 seconds.
The board is Asus A7V333 and the original heatsink is longer than
all the new ones , raised allowing it to cover most of the plastic
under which the sockets lever is attached. This raised area has
2 slits that are almost covered by the original heatsink so I hoped
there were light sensors there but that does not seam to be the case.
The detection doesn't even involve the heatsink clamp being in place
since just placing the heatsink on top of the CPU seams to make it work.

Any other possibilities?

I would like to close this up since besides knocking on the fan
I have no other reason to keep it open.
The Atholon 2100MHz has always been running at 1300 since I got it
second hand because it was getting way too hot.
But even then if in C&C on a hot summer day....
Until I cleaned up the area of old heat transfer pad , old paste
and newly applied Stars 700 heatsink compound that I got almost
constant 60C (oops 52 now but I haven't played C&C )

So best transfer with nothing on it.

Cheers



I had a similar problem to this, I took it to the shop, they ended up
replacing the MB. They tried various things, couldn't make it work .
Couldn't tell why the heat sink would not maintain good contact.

I just realized this heatsink is anodized ( or whatever the term is )
and so was the last one , let's hope the 4 rubber pads on the CPU are
actually electrodes. Well Al foil to the rescue.
Now that I said that, it seams that I have read about foil in the context
of installing heatsinks.
Hmmm...

 

[Baron]

Sambo wrote:

I just realized this heatsink is anodized ( or whatever the term is )
and so was the last one , let's hope the 4 rubber pads on the CPU are
actually electrodes. Well Al foil to the rescue.

The four rubber pads are there to keep the heatsink square to the chip
surface.

Now that I said that, it seams that I have read about foil in the
context of installing heatsinks.
Hmmm...

If you are not careful you will destroy the CPU. Do not use aluminium
foil under any circumstances.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

 

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[John Popelish]

eromlignod wrote:

Great Info. Thanks for the replies.

Should I assume that a transistor in its "off" state would exhibit
similar behaviour?

For sufficiently vague concepts of "similar", yes. There is
definitely a reverse biased diode (collector to base
junction) leakage current component that dominates the
character of the leakage if the transistor has a reverse
biased base emitter junction. If the transistor has a small
positive base emitter bias it might still be considered to
be off, but an additional leakage current component (gain
times base current) is added.

The main similarity is that the current is less than
proportional to the voltage over a considerable voltage
range, till breakdown is approached. Then it takes off and
becomes more than proportional to voltage.

--
Regards,

John Popelish