Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <9otubrF3kaU1@mid.individual.net>,
David Looser <david.looser@btinternet.com> wrote:

Which is why I was suprised by the consumer unit in the Italian house
that I mentioned. Just 4 MCBs for a modern, 3 story house. But
according to you this was much safer than UK wiring because the plugs
were unfused and they don't use ring mains!

Much the same as Spain - again new build.

--
*Time is what keeps everything from happening at once.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Mike Tomlinson]

In article <OqCdnTLEKr9i4bTSnZ2dnUVZ8midnZ2d@bt.com>, Ron
<ron@lunevalleyaudio.com> writes

If you want to see some spectacular electrical fails, check out the
facebook group called 'Dodgy technicians'

https://www.facebook.com/groups/dodgytechnicians/

Also take a look at:

<http://www.electrical-contractor.net/forums/ubbthreads.php/forums/4/1/V
iolation_Photo_Forum.html>

if the above line breaks (likely): http://tinyurl.com/84hv9y6

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

 

[Mike Tomlinson]

In article <4f298157.5289806@news.eternal-september.org>, Don Pearce
<spam@spam.com> writes

Back in the olden days there was always a cooker spur rated at 30
amps. That came straight from the fuse board to the cooker, which was
wired into the wall plate without a socket.

Also the immersion, on its own 16A radial. Though sometimes you could
find it wired into a ring.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

 

[Mike Tomlinson]

In article <9otu2eF1khU1@mid.individual.net>, David Looser
<david.looser@btinternet.com> writes

Despite what some others may have mistakenly implied, cookers in the UK have
their own radial circuits, usually rated at 40A.

Single ovens usually come with a 13A plug, double ovens need a radial
circuit. Hobs usually need a radial too.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <6c6mggAIioKPFwRy@jasper.org.uk>,
Mike Tomlinson <mike@jasper.org.uk> wrote:

In article <4f298157.5289806@news.eternal-september.org>, Don Pearce
spam@spam.com> writes

Back in the olden days there was always a cooker spur rated at 30
amps. That came straight from the fuse board to the cooker, which was
wired into the wall plate without a socket.

Also the immersion, on its own 16A radial. Though sometimes you could
find it wired into a ring.

This was common once, but IIRC regs changed requiring new builds (or
re-wires) to have it on a radial.

IIRC, the concept of a ring requires diversity - ie no continuous high
loads. Most domestic high loads are for fairly short periods of time. But
heating usually more constant. Water heating is sort of in between - hence
the regs changing.

--
*Income tax service - We‘ve got what it takes to take what you've got.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[David Looser]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote

Sorry - we normally call them cookers, so I missed it. A complete electric
cooker would normally have its own radial here too. But most here would go
for a gas hob and electric oven - some of which can be run from a 13 amp
socket.

I've not met an oven with a 13A plug, maybe this is a recent innovation. I

have a gas (bottled, I'm off the gas main) hob and a built-in double oven
which is connected via a 45A "cooker point" to a radial circuit with a 40A
MCB on the other end of it. Though there is a 13A socket in the cooker point
into which the microwave is plugged, so that shares the 40A with the oven.

David.

 

[Mortimer]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:525b528d64dave@davenoise.co.uk...

In article <9ovrt3Fj9eU1@mid.individual.net>,
David Looser <david.looser@btinternet.com> wrote:
Sorry - we normally call them cookers, so I missed it. A complete
electric cooker would normally have its own radial here too. But most
here would go for a gas hob and electric oven - some of which can be
run from a 13 amp socket.

I've not met an oven with a 13A plug, maybe this is a recent innovation.
I have a gas (bottled, I'm off the gas main) hob and a built-in double
oven which is connected via a 45A "cooker point" to a radial circuit
with a 40A MCB on the other end of it. Though there is a 13A socket in
the cooker point into which the microwave is plugged, so that shares the
40A with the oven.

My house, built in 2000, has a single oven and spark unit for lighting the
gas hob powered from adjacent 3-pin-plugs under the worktop (I only
discovered them when I needed to remove the oven for some reason). The
socket is switched via a multi-way switch unit which also has marked
switches for the built-in fridge/freezer, the immersion heater and the
washing machine. Until I found the hidden socket for the oven, I assumed
that it was hard-wired into a conventional cooker point. I'm not sure which
circuit all the kitchen appliances are on, but I think it may be a dedicated
one, not the ring main that serves the rest of the ground floor.

While we're talking about electrical safety, what is the current (scuse that
unintentional pun) advice on extending the lead of a freezer? I know you
have to use cable that is rated for 13A (1.5 mm^2 wire rather than 1 mm^2)
and conventional extension cables must be unrolled to avoid inductive
heating. But providing you use a cable of the correct current rating and
which is no longer than it needs to be, joined to the original cable using a
proper in-line junction box, is there a problem? Many internet resources say
"don't do it - get an electrician to fit a socket close to the freezer",
probably on a brand-new radial line, since it is a faff rerouting a ring
main to include an additional socket. But SWMBO's father, a qualified
electrician, said it's a load of crap having a blanket ban, and is only to
guard against numpties trying to use extension cable that is rated too low.

Is it a no-no to have a spur coming off a ring main? When I was fitting a
replacement mains socket in SWMBO's house to replace one whose faceplate had
cracked, I was surprised to find *three* cables (ie 3 live, 3 neutral, 3
earth wires). I duly connected all of them to the new socket, but should the
extra socket (wherever it may be) really be connected via the ring main?
It's a 1930s house, rewired with red/black/green wiring rather than
brown/blue/green-and-yellow, though I gather the wiring colours are only
mandatory for equipment cable and that it's quite normal to find even modern
house wiring (lighting, ring mains) in the "old" colours, so it's difficult
to deduce when the rewiring was done and therefore what building regs
applied at the time.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <9ovrt3Fj9eU1@mid.individual.net>,
David Looser <david.looser@btinternet.com> wrote:

Sorry - we normally call them cookers, so I missed it. A complete
electric cooker would normally have its own radial here too. But most
here would go for a gas hob and electric oven - some of which can be
run from a 13 amp socket.

I've not met an oven with a 13A plug, maybe this is a recent innovation.
I have a gas (bottled, I'm off the gas main) hob and a built-in double
oven which is connected via a 45A "cooker point" to a radial circuit
with a 40A MCB on the other end of it. Though there is a 13A socket in
the cooker point into which the microwave is plugged, so that shares the
40A with the oven.

Single ovens often come with a 13 amp plug and lead, these days. Double
ones not, as the two being used together would exceed 3 kW.

The 13 amp socket on the cooker point is an older idea - really from the
days when an extra socket in the kitchen would double the number. ;-)

--
*Husband and cat lost -- reward for cat

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <msidnYLqV4O-SrfSnZ2dnUVZ8hKdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>,
Mortimer <me@privacy.net> wrote:

While we're talking about electrical safety, what is the current (scuse
that unintentional pun) advice on extending the lead of a freezer? I
know you have to use cable that is rated for 13A (1.5 mm^2 wire rather
than 1 mm^2) and conventional extension cables must be unrolled to
avoid inductive heating. But providing you use a cable of the correct
current rating and which is no longer than it needs to be, joined to
the original cable using a proper in-line junction box, is there a
problem? Many internet resources say "don't do it - get an electrician
to fit a socket close to the freezer", probably on a brand-new radial
line, since it is a faff rerouting a ring main to include an additional
socket. But SWMBO's father, a qualified electrician, said it's a load
of crap having a blanket ban, and is only to guard against numpties
trying to use extension cable that is rated too low.

Simplest way would be to buy a 13 amp extension lead with a single outlet
in one of the sheds or whatever and cut to length, re-using the plug
supplied with it. Most aren't moulded on.

Is it a no-no to have a spur coming off a ring main? When I was fitting
a replacement mains socket in SWMBO's house to replace one whose
faceplate had cracked, I was surprised to find *three* cables (ie 3
live, 3 neutral, 3 earth wires). I duly connected all of them to the
new socket, but should the extra socket (wherever it may be) really be
connected via the ring main? It's a 1930s house, rewired with
red/black/green wiring rather than brown/blue/green-and-yellow, though
I gather the wiring colours are only mandatory for equipment cable and
that it's quite normal to find even modern house wiring (lighting, ring
mains) in the "old" colours, so it's difficult to deduce when the
rewiring was done and therefore what building regs applied at the time.

You are allowed (current regs) a spur with one double socket maximum. Not
two singles.

--
*Heart attacks... God's revenge for eating his animal friends

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Andy Champ]

On 01/02/2012 14:10, JW wrote:

On Wed, 1 Feb 2012 12:40:58 +0000 Mike Tomlinson<mike@jasper.org.uk
wrote in Message id:<MHebmdBaLTKPFwHs@jasper.org.uk>:

In article<nyyfbegfubjuvyypbz.lyjda42.pminews@srv1.howhill.co.uk>, Dave
Liquorice<allsortsnotthisbit@howhill.co.uk> writes


Just counted up how many double 13A sockets we've just put into the
refurbished *half* of this place: 38. That makes for one helluva fuse
board if each was a radial...

Seen American consumer units? Huge, ugly things, bit like the Americans
themselves

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1e/ElectricalPanel.jpg

Yeah, but we're smart enough to not put them in our living room.

Seen in a hotel room in Scotland:

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l17/Number774/MeterWardrobe.jpg

Andy

 

[Arny Krueger]

"Andy Champ" <no.way@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:HLSdnYix6c8jb7fSnZ2dnUVZ8n6dnZ2d@eclipse.net.uk...

On 01/02/2012 14:10, JW wrote:
On Wed, 1 Feb 2012 12:40:58 +0000 Mike Tomlinson<mike@jasper.org.uk
wrote in Message id:<MHebmdBaLTKPFwHs@jasper.org.uk>:

In article<nyyfbegfubjuvyypbz.lyjda42.pminews@srv1.howhill.co.uk>, Dave
Liquorice<allsortsnotthisbit@howhill.co.uk> writes


Just counted up how many double 13A sockets we've just put into the
refurbished *half* of this place: 38. That makes for one helluva fuse
board if each was a radial...

Seen American consumer units? Huge, ugly things, bit like the Americans
themselves

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1e/ElectricalPanel.jpg

Hmm, a distro panel that can handle up to 96 circuits and includes the main
breakers.

Where's the problem?

Yeah, but we're smart enough to not put them in our living room.

Seen in a hotel room in Scotland:

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l17/Number774/MeterWardrobe.jpg

Seems like a lot of wiring and separate little boxes to handle not so many
circuits.

I presume that it provides service for more than just one little hotel room.

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <q7SdnY4Nhbxc8rTSnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@earthlink.com>, Michael A.
Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> writes:

Paul Ratcliffe wrote:
[]
Fuck off Yank. Patronising bastards aren't you?


Not as much as you Brits. You won't take anyone's word on the
subject, and you would claim the NEC is wrong, as well.


What has the Nippon Electric Company done?

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Times are bad. Children no longer obey their parents, and everyone is writing a
book. -Marcus Tullius Cicero, statesman, orator and writer (106-43 BCE)

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <msidnYLqV4O-SrfSnZ2dnUVZ8hKdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, Mortimer
<me@privacy.net> writes:
[]

While we're talking about electrical safety, what is the current (scuse
that unintentional pun) advice on extending the lead of a freezer? I
know you have to use cable that is rated for 13A (1.5 mm^2 wire rather
than 1 mm^2) and conventional extension cables must be unrolled to
avoid inductive heating. But providing you use a cable of the correct
[]

I don't _think_ it's _inductive_ heating they're that concerned about -
just air cooling, or rather the lack of it when a cable is wound onto a
reel (and tightly, as it often is).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Times are bad. Children no longer obey their parents, and everyone is writing a
book. -Marcus Tullius Cicero, statesman, orator and writer (106-43 BCE)

 

[David Looser]

"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@cocmast.net> wrote

Seems like a lot of wiring and separate little boxes to handle not so many
circuits.

I presume that it provides service for more than just one little hotel
room.
Yes, that's the main incoming supply to the building. The grey unit at the

bottom left is the supply company's terminating unit that inludes their
fuses. Above that is the meter, to the right of it is a neutral block, and
beyond that an isolator (looks like a three-phase + neutral one). I'm not
sure what the unit above the isolator is, but at the top of the wardrobe are
three consumer units, each, apparently, fed from a different phase. The one
on the right seems to feed just one, high-current, load.

David.

 

[David Looser]

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:f0bXgxX4wwKPFwWX@soft255.demon.co.uk...

In message <msidnYLqV4O-SrfSnZ2dnUVZ8hKdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, Mortimer
me@privacy.net> writes:
[]
While we're talking about electrical safety, what is the current (scuse
that unintentional pun) advice on extending the lead of a freezer? I know
you have to use cable that is rated for 13A (1.5 mm^2 wire rather than 1
mm^2) and conventional extension cables must be unrolled to avoid
inductive heating. But providing you use a cable of the correct
[]
I don't _think_ it's _inductive_ heating they're that concerned about -
just air cooling, or rather the lack of it when a cable is wound onto a
reel (and tightly, as it often is).
--

Indeed. It's a common error to assume that the reason that cable drums
should be unwound when in use is something to do with inductance. Possibly
because its a coil, and wire is commonly coiled up to create an inductor.
But in this case it is, as you say, simply a matter of air cooling, or more
to the point the lack of it. The inductance of an air-cored coil of
relatively few turns would be insignificant at 50Hz and in any case the
inductances of the two conductors largely cancel out.

David.

 

[Mike Tomlinson]

In article <HLSdnYix6c8jb7fSnZ2dnUVZ8n6dnZ2d@eclipse.net.uk>, Andy Champ
<no.way@nospam.invalid> writes

Seen in a hotel room in Scotland:

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l17/Number774/MeterWardrobe.jpg

<shrug> it's in a cupboard, out of sight. Mind you, whoever did that
obviously took pride in his work. Nice neat job (except the incoming
cable, maybe, it can't be touched anyway)

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

 

[Mike Tomlinson]

In article <gLGdnZK8lPYxlLbSnZ2dnUVZ5vmdnZ2d@giganews.com>, Arny Krueger
<arnyk@cocmast.net> writes

Where's the problem?

It's massive, ugly and looks like it came out of the Queen Mary rather
than a domestic premises. Apart from that, it's great

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

 

[Mike Tomlinson]

In article <gLGdnZK8lPYxlLbSnZ2dnUVZ5vmdnZ2d@giganews.com>, Arny Krueger
<arnyk@cocmast.net> writes

Seems like a lot of wiring and separate little boxes to handle not so many
circuits.

I presume that it provides service for more than just one little hotel room.

Yes, it'll feed the entire building. Note the wiring includes the
supplier's meter, unlike those ugly external meters used in North
America. The meter is read remotely.

As another poster said, this is a 3-phase supply. Notice how thin the
main incomer is, yet that'll be supplying 100A per phase.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

 

[JW]

On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 10:33:44 +0000 Mike Tomlinson <mike@jasper.org.uk>
wrote in Message id: <SP6ckICIg7KPFwlT@jasper.org.uk>:

In article <HLSdnYix6c8jb7fSnZ2dnUVZ8n6dnZ2d@eclipse.net.uk>, Andy Champ
no.way@nospam.invalid> writes

Seen in a hotel room in Scotland:

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l17/Number774/MeterWardrobe.jpg

shrug> it's in a cupboard, out of sight.

Ah, So *now* it doesn't matter how ugly it is.
Which was my point exactly.

Heh.

 

[Mike Tomlinson]

In article <efgni79a50t3ihoaftfoh3m5se9hf94bo6@4ax.com>, JW
<none@dev.null> writes

Ah, So *now* it doesn't matter how ugly it is.
Which was my point exactly.

But you're the tit that thought we put them on open view in our living
rooms.

Heh.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")