Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems

[Don Pearce]

On Sun, 29 Jan 2012 20:48:39 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
<G6JPG@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:

(I am not on either side in the argument between Jerry and others: I
live in UK, but still find ring mains odd.)

Why do you find ring mains odd? Once you have daisy chained all the
sockets it is an extremely sensible idea to complete the loop back to
the distribution board. For the cost of a few feet of cable, you have
halved both the effective resistance of the mains and the distance to
the furthest socket. I can't imagine a single reason not to do it.

d

 

[recursor]

On 29/01/2012 20:48, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

In message <52592d9133dave@davenoise.co.uk>, "Dave Plowman (News)"
dave@davenoise.co.uk> writes:
In article <jg3h6t$a7g$1@dont-email.me>,
Jerry <mapson.scarts@btinternet.INVALID> wrote:
Yes pet, a 15amp breaker has the same rating as 30amp breaker if
you say so... One is far more likely to have an appliance lead
that is rated at 15A, even for appliances that have internal 1amp
fuses, rather than such an appliance having a lead that one could
run a domestic -four ring, grill and oven- cooker off...

Thanks for confirming we can add flex ratings to the things you know
nothing about.

Conductors rated at only 1A are very thin - sufficiently so that they do not
have great mechanical strength. Therefore Jerry's statement that mains leads (in
US: line cords) are likely to have a higher rating than absolutely necessary is
valid. Especially if they're of the sort that has a connector at both ends: if
there's a chance that they might be used for an appliance that draws more, then
it is unwise to use low-current wire/cable for them.

(I am not on either side in the argument between Jerry and others: I live in UK,
but still find ring mains odd.)

Indeed, inherently unsafe some would say:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_circuit#Fault_conditions_are_not_apparent_when_in_use

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <4f25d1d8.46937643@news.eternal-september.org>, Don Pearce
<spam@spam.com> writes:

On Sun, 29 Jan 2012 20:48:39 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
G6JPG@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:

(I am not on either side in the argument between Jerry and others: I
live in UK, but still find ring mains odd.)

Why do you find ring mains odd? Once you have daisy chained all the
sockets it is an extremely sensible idea to complete the loop back to

If you happen to have laid them out in a ring manner anyway, yes.

the distribution board. For the cost of a few feet of cable, you have
halved both the effective resistance of the mains and the distance to
the furthest socket. I can't imagine a single reason not to do it.

d

I can see the halving of the resistance (well, at the most remote point
anyway), but not the halving of the distance.

I think maintenance (I mean when modifying, not just general wear and
tear): most extras added to ring mains are spurs. (Also, instinctively,
it's easier to know when one is isolated with a spur, though that
shouldn't be done that way.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The summit of Everest is marine limestone.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <vTar5NfzPlJPFw6O@soft255.demon.co.uk>,
J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6JPG@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:

Why do you find ring mains odd? Once you have daisy chained all the
sockets it is an extremely sensible idea to complete the loop back to

If you happen to have laid them out in a ring manner anyway, yes.

Why wouldn't you? There are less runs back to the CU than doing the same
with radials, so surely not too difficult to design?

the distribution board. For the cost of a few feet of cable, you have
halved both the effective resistance of the mains and the distance to
the furthest socket. I can't imagine a single reason not to do it.

d

I can see the halving of the resistance (well, at the most remote point
anyway), but not the halving of the distance.

I think maintenance (I mean when modifying, not just general wear and
tear): most extras added to ring mains are spurs. (Also, instinctively,
it's easier to know when one is isolated with a spur, though that
shouldn't be done that way.)

You are allowed to add spurs within the regs, but why is it so much more
difficult to simply add a socket properly to the ring?

--
*Certain frogs can be frozen solid, then thawed, and survive *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <HpfBnYNnCbJPFw8T@soft255.demon.co.uk>,
J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6JPG@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:

Thanks for confirming we can add flex ratings to the things you know
nothing about.

Conductors rated at only 1A are very thin - sufficiently so that they do
not have great mechanical strength.

Where will you find an appliance sold fitted with 1A flex and a 13 amp
plug?

Therefore Jerry's statement that
mains leads (in US: line cords) are likely to have a higher rating than
absolutely necessary is valid.

All appliances now sold in the UK (and elsewhere in Europe) are capable of
blowing a 13 amp fuse in event of a fault on the line chord.

Especially if they're of the sort that
has a connector at both ends: if there's a chance that they might be
used for an appliance that draws more, then it is unwise to use
low-current wire/cable for them.

Same with extensions etc sold in the UK.

(I am not on either side in the argument between Jerry and others: I
live in UK, but still find ring mains odd.)

I can understand this, as practice is what matters. Diversity loading.
Not some theoretical maybe as Jerry insist on bringing up - even although
it has been explained to him time and time again.

Final ring circuits are for domestic premises only. For workshops or
offices where you have known fixed loads you'd stick to radials. As you'd
do for fixed heating in a domestic scenario.

--
*Isn't it a bit unnerving that doctors call what they do "practice?"

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Arny Krueger]

"John Williamson" <johnwilliamson@oysterbroadcast.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9okck8Fcf0U1@mid.individual.net...

Don Pearce wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 23:53:37 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
G6JPG@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:

(excluding the US and Canada) and Japan, drive on the wrong side of
the road, AS COMPARED TO_EVERYWHERE_. Sorry, but THAT is weird. The
It's not the wrong side, it's the left side (-:.


UK, Australia, New Zealand, India. All left side (proper side)
drivers.

Add Japan and most of Africa (Where the drivers don't just stick to the
ruts, which normally match the track of a Land Rover.

Currently, the split is about 50/50 in terms of the number of countries
which drive on which side.

After all, the Right side is the right side...

 

[Ron]

On 30/01/2012 16:24, Arny Krueger wrote:

"John Williamson"<johnwilliamson@oysterbroadcast.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9okck8Fcf0U1@mid.individual.net...
Don Pearce wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 23:53:37 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
G6JPG@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:

(excluding the US and Canada) and Japan, drive on the wrong side of
the road, AS COMPARED TO_EVERYWHERE_. Sorry, but THAT is weird. The
It's not the wrong side, it's the left side (-:.


UK, Australia, New Zealand, India. All left side (proper side)
drivers.

Add Japan and most of Africa (Where the drivers don't just stick to the
ruts, which normally match the track of a Land Rover.

Currently, the split is about 50/50 in terms of the number of countries
which drive on which side.

After all, the Right side is the right side...

You mean the French side

Ron

 

[Arny Krueger]

"Ron" <ron@lunevalleyaudio.com> wrote in message
news:nvudnQvAqsfXVbvSnZ2dnUVZ7v-dnZ2d@bt.com...

On 30/01/2012 16:24, Arny Krueger wrote:
"John Williamson"<johnwilliamson@oysterbroadcast.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9okck8Fcf0U1@mid.individual.net...
Don Pearce wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 23:53:37 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
G6JPG@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:

(excluding the US and Canada) and Japan, drive on the wrong side of
the road, AS COMPARED TO_EVERYWHERE_. Sorry, but THAT is weird. The
It's not the wrong side, it's the left side (-:.


UK, Australia, New Zealand, India. All left side (proper side)
drivers.

Add Japan and most of Africa (Where the drivers don't just stick to the
ruts, which normally match the track of a Land Rover.

Currently, the split is about 50/50 in terms of the number of countries
which drive on which side.

After all, the Right side is the right side...



You mean the French side

and German and...

The good news is that most of the major car manufacturers have figured out
to make cars of either format on the same production line, etc.

 

[Don Pearce]

On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 08:25:23 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
<G6JPG@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:

In message <4f25d1d8.46937643@news.eternal-september.org>, Don Pearce
spam@spam.com> writes:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2012 20:48:39 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
G6JPG@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:

(I am not on either side in the argument between Jerry and others: I
live in UK, but still find ring mains odd.)

Why do you find ring mains odd? Once you have daisy chained all the
sockets it is an extremely sensible idea to complete the loop back to

If you happen to have laid them out in a ring manner anyway, yes.

the distribution board. For the cost of a few feet of cable, you have
halved both the effective resistance of the mains and the distance to
the furthest socket. I can't imagine a single reason not to do it.

d

I can see the halving of the resistance (well, at the most remote point
anyway), but not the halving of the distance.

For the most remote socket, the distance can be reduced to almost zero
by completing the loop (assuming the run goes around the house and
almost back again. For any socket beyond half distance, the run is
reduced. Half was just an estimate.

I think maintenance (I mean when modifying, not just general wear and
tear): most extras added to ring mains are spurs. (Also, instinctively,
it's easier to know when one is isolated with a spur, though that
shouldn't be done that way.)

Spurs are allowed on a ring main, but to a single point only (which
can of course be a double socket).

d

 

[Don Pearce]

On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 16:55:38 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller <miller@yoyRG>
wrote:

On Monday, January 30th, 2012, at 11:43:42h -0500, Arny Krueger wrote:

"Ron" <ron@lunevalleyaudio.com> wrote in message

You mean the French side

and German and...

Most of the map at <http://en.wikipedia.ORG/wiki/Right-_and_left-hand_traffic
is red.

The good bits are blue.

d

 

[JohnT]

"J G Miller" <miller@yoyRG> wrote in message
news:jg6hee$sc2$2@dont-email.me...

On Monday, January 30th, 2012, at 11:24:28h -0500, Arny Krueger declared:

After all, the Right side is the right side...

Will somebody not think of the bus drivers?

Is it easier for bus drivers to take fares and issue tickets
to people boarding the bus from the left hand side or the
right hand side when usually most bus drivers are right handed?

It must be a long time since you were last on a bus.

--
JohnT

 

[J G Miller]

On Monday, January 30th, 2012, at 11:24:28h -0500, Arny Krueger declared:

After all, the Right side is the right side...

Will somebody not think of the bus drivers?

Is it easier for bus drivers to take fares and issue tickets
to people boarding the bus from the left hand side or the
right hand side when usually most bus drivers are right handed?

 

[Don Pearce]

On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 16:45:02 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller <miller@yoyRG>
wrote:

On Monday, January 30th, 2012, at 11:24:28h -0500, Arny Krueger declared:

After all, the Right side is the right side...

Will somebody not think of the bus drivers?

Is it easier for bus drivers to take fares and issue tickets
to people boarding the bus from the left hand side or the
right hand side when usually most bus drivers are right handed?

Fares? Nobody takes fares on buses any more.

d

 

[J G Miller]

On Monday, January 30th, 2012, at 11:43:42h -0500, Arny Krueger wrote:

"Ron" <ron@lunevalleyaudio.com> wrote in message

You mean the French side

and German and...

Most of the map at <http://en.wikipedia.ORG/wiki/Right-_and_left-hand_traffic>
is red.

 

[Ron]

On 30/01/2012 18:12, J G Miller wrote:

On Monday, January 30th, 2012, at 17:50:21h +0000, Don Pearce wrote:

Fares? Nobody takes fares on buses any more.

Nonsense. All depends on the bus company.

And the country

Ron

 

[Don Pearce]

On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 18:12:00 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller <miller@yoyRG>
wrote:

On Monday, January 30th, 2012, at 17:50:21h +0000, Don Pearce wrote:

Fares? Nobody takes fares on buses any more.

Nonsense. All depends on the bus company.

And what if you want a transfer [slip]?

On some bus line extensions, you even pay an extra fare
when you get off the bus.

No idea what you are talking about, I'm afraid. I get on the bus,
swipe my card then get off when I'm there.

d

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <jg6hee$sc2$2@dont-email.me>,
J G Miller <miller@yoyRG> wrote:

On Monday, January 30th, 2012, at 11:24:28h -0500, Arny Krueger declared:

After all, the Right side is the right side...

Will somebody not think of the bus drivers?

Is it easier for bus drivers to take fares and issue tickets
to people boarding the bus from the left hand side or the
right hand side when usually most bus drivers are right handed?

Take fares? When last were you on a bus? ;-)

--
*Two many clicks spoil the browse *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[J G Miller]

On Monday, January 30th, 2012, at 17:50:21h +0000, Don Pearce wrote:

Fares? Nobody takes fares on buses any more.

Nonsense. All depends on the bus company.

And what if you want a transfer [slip]?

On some bus line extensions, you even pay an extra fare
when you get off the bus.

 

[Trevor Wilson]

On 1/31/2012 3:24 AM, Arny Krueger wrote:

"John Williamson"<johnwilliamson@oysterbroadcast.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9okck8Fcf0U1@mid.individual.net...
Don Pearce wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 23:53:37 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
G6JPG@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:

(excluding the US and Canada) and Japan, drive on the wrong side of
the road, AS COMPARED TO_EVERYWHERE_. Sorry, but THAT is weird. The
It's not the wrong side, it's the left side (-:.


UK, Australia, New Zealand, India. All left side (proper side)
drivers.

Add Japan and most of Africa (Where the drivers don't just stick to the
ruts, which normally match the track of a Land Rover.

Currently, the split is about 50/50 in terms of the number of countries
which drive on which side.

After all, the Right side is the right side...

**Why? I've driven cars on both sides, in several countries. As long as
everyone else has it figured out, there seems to be no real problem.
HOWEVER, I would posit that, when driving an automobile with a manual
gearbox, using one's right hand to control the wheel (assuming one is
right handed), with the other hand using the gear change, is a better idea.

As it happens, I am suddenly in the market for a new (second hand)
automobile. The advantage for me is that I can easily purchase a direct
Japense import, with low milage and in very good condition for quite
good prices and without any need to convert to local conditions.

FWIW: A Nissan Stagea beckons.

--
Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[Andy Champ]

On 29/01/2012 18:45, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

... except pints and gallons of course. The US "English" system has
never been used in England.
IIRC, it has. The UK one was changed sometime after US independence. They
stuck to the old units, understandably.

I'm prepared to be proved wrong, but a little rummage suggest the US
gallon is based on the English Gallon as used for Wine, and there was no
unified English Gallon.

I'm also quite prepared for someone to say British not English...

Andy