Why do circuit breakers go up for on and down for off?...

[NY]

On 17/02/2023 18:00, Commander Kinsey wrote:

Our electrical outlets (argh! sockets) are superior to American ones in
so many ways.
1) There is only one type in the house, serves any appliance up to 3.2kW.
2) They all have sleeves on the pins, no shocks if your fingers wrap
round the end.
3) They\'re made robustly, unlike the flimsy shit in the USA which is two
thin shards of metal shoved into a couple of holes in the vague hope of
contact.  This means they don\'t fall out or wear out.
4) All sockets have switches, you don\'t arc the contacts when you plug
or unplug, and you don\'t have live prongs to touch.
5) No dual voltage shit, no extra wires and complications in the
fusebox, no trying to find the right voltage of socket to plug something
into.

Most of that is true, but 4 is not: many modern wall sockets
(single/dual gang), especially those fitted by house builders, do not
have a switch.

At least we don\'t wire some of our sockets into wall light switches by
the door into a room, so those sockets can only be used for table lamps
etc; the wall switches are probably not rated for the full rating of a
120 V socket.

 

[SteveW]

On 19/02/2023 12:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 18/02/2023 20:25, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-02-18 02:47, Rod Speed wrote:
On Sat, 18 Feb 2023 06:19:29 +1100, Carlos E. R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-02-17 20:12, Rod Speed wrote:
On Sat, 18 Feb 2023 03:05:55 +1100, Carlos E. R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-02-17 04:52, Rod Speed wrote:
On Fri, 17 Feb 2023 12:45:30 +1100, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-02-16 16:26, Scott Lurndal wrote:
micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> writes:
In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 16 Feb 2023 13:30:34 +0100,
\"Carlos E.R.\" <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-02-16 05:45, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 15 Feb 2023 23:32:44 +0100,
\"Carlos E.R.\" <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:


I think all houses have circuit breakers, but that doesn\'t
mean they
have a fully compliant installation.

I don\'t think they\'ve ever ordered that here.  Althought some
people
remodel and upgrade on their own.  A friend bought a 100-year old
farmhouse about 10 years ago and it still had knob and tube
wiring.  I
think it was connected and in use.
 A lot of insurance companies will exclude electric-caused issues
from the policy if the home has knob and tube here in the states.

I had to look it up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knob-and-tube_wiring

I\'ve never seen it here. Maybe, just maybe, something related
from before I was born. But we don\'t build houses with wood,
like in the photos. All brick, mortar, stone, concrete.
 Bullshit.
https://www.google.com/search?q=wooden+houses+spain&tbm=isch

Did you check the percent?
 You said DON\'T and ALL.

Less than a 0.01% error, probably.

Don\'t buy that with the prefabs and we can see that your number is a lie
using google street view.

In cities? In my city I don\'t remember seeing a single wood house. On
some beaches, yes. For political reasons:

It is very difficult to get a building permit in some places, so
people plant a prefab instead.


Yes, it has been my experience that the Spanish even in S America prefer
to build with concrete or blocks as the high thermal mass is useful in
reducing peak temperatures by day.

My parents used to own a holiday home in Northern France. It was a stone
building, about 250 years old and the walls were 2\'6\" thick. During the
summer it was significantly cooler inside than out. However, after being
empty for months, it took days (and a lot of money) to warm it up if
staying there over Christmas.

 

[Peeler]

On 22 Feb 2023 04:25:11 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


> Sort of, I guess. I stick with my meter for diagnosing AA batteries.

Doesn\'t matter. You can babble and gossip about your tongue as well as about
your meter. Right? ;-)

--
More of the senile gossip\'s absolutely idiotic senile blather:
\"I stopped for breakfast at a diner in Virginia when the state didn\'t do
DST. I remarked on the time difference and the crusty old waitress said
\'We keep God\'s time in Virginia.\'

I also lived in Ft. Wayne for a while.\"

MID: <t0tjfa$6r5$1@dont-email.me>

BOISTEROUS BRAGGART

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-02-15 07:58, micky wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 14 Feb 2023 19:13:35 +0100, \"Carlos E. R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-02-14 18:55, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 14 Feb 2023 10:48:29 +0000, Vir Campestris
vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 11/02/2023 15:56, John Larkin wrote:
But I guess 240v is a lot nastier than 120, so more ground fault
sensing makes sense in europe.

It\'s a trade-off. More shocks with 240V; more fires with the higher
currents required at 120V.

Andy

If the breakers are sized for the wiring, there is no fire hazard
there. Romex doesn\'t get hot at rated current. Fires are started by
appliances like space heaters, which wouldn\'t be affected by the
voltage. Or overloaded extension cords, arguably a lesser hazard at
higher voltage.

Very old houses had knob-and-tube wiring with twisted junctions, in
walls and exposed in attics, and people tended to screw in bigger
glass fuses than the wire could handle. That was, sometimes still is,
a big fire hazard.


In my house, or rather my parent\'s house, fuses were just a strand of
wire wrapped around two metal screws or some metal something. When a
fuse blows, you just put another wire. It it blows again, they put two
strands. Next, they put three... you see the problem.

Of course you can use sealed fuses, or calibrated fuse wire (they sold
that in the UK). But it is just safer to use calibrated breakers which
\"blow\" and you just throw them back. Of course they can be intentionally
\"sabotaged\".

IN NYCity, my apartment building and I\'m sure most apartment buildings,
rentals in general, used Fustats. It\'s an insert that screws into the
original fuse holder (which I think used the same thread as a
lightbulb), but the inserts have a different pitch internal thread for
each amperage. So in the basement, I could only use one 20-amp Fustat,
and in my apartment, I could only use two 15-amp Fustats.

I have seen them.
I had no idea about the different threads.

Aren\'t they a bit expensive? Amazon doesn\'t help, because it wants to
ship to Spain before citing a price in those I find.



Each old switch or socket in my house has one of these:

https://images.app.goo.gl/3wm7PoAi8p7HPDgU7

And the whole house had this:

https://images.app.goo.gl/3wm7PoAi8p7HPDgU7

In the site you can move to the inside photo:

<https://es.wallapop.com/item/portafusibles-de-porcelana-con-fusible-doble-de-la-854489168>

Fustat was the first capital of Egypt under Muslim rule, and the
historical centre of modern Cairo -- oops, wrong link.

https://www.amazon.com/Bussmann-Fustat-Buss-Fuse-Pack/dp/B01DWBTZOA
$70 for 4?!. They weren\'t anywhere near this expensive in the 70\'s,
even allowing for 70\'s prices. They only sell this one size, which
seems to be 8 amps. What kind of a value is 8 amps? The ones that
never sold out?

Menards has Cooper Bussmann® Tamper-Proof Fustat Heavy Duty Plug Fuse
6.25 amps for $4.88 each. What kind of a value is 6.25 amps?

Maybe when multiplied by the voltage it gives a nice power figure.

I used to, had to power the whole 6-room apartments, including sometimes
the last couple years a small air conditioner, on 20 amps. Only blew
the fuse about 4 times.

My air conditioning unit is \"inverter\" type. Max power I think is
800Watts, not sure now. Say 1 KW. When the room has reached a stable
temp, it draws as little as 200 watts.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Carlos E. R.]

On 2023-02-17 05:51, whit3rd wrote:

On Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 8:30:01 AM UTC-8, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2023-02-15, NY <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
On 15/02/2023 11:40, Max Demian wrote:

It had never actually occurred to me until now that \"clockwise\" is the
same way that the sun appears to move in the sky, so the hour hand will
follow the sun (except at double speed). I must have been singularly
incurious to accept what \"clockwise\" meant without relating it to the
direction of movement of the sun.

Think about sundials for just a moment.

and consider Australian sundials

https://images.app.goo.gl/RyaJS4F8xuZXzPJa7

My head just exploded.


--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

 

[SteveW]

On 19/02/2023 14:21, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 19/02/2023 12:37, Max Demian wrote:
On 18/02/2023 20:09, SteveW wrote:
On 18/02/2023 15:05, Max Demian wrote:
On 18/02/2023 13:14, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

\"The Electricity (Supply) Act 1919 merged the 600-odd local
generating companies into area boards, who in turn were centralised
into the Central Electricity Board by the Electricity Supply Act
1925. That is when the voltage was standardised at 240V, and the
National Grid created.

And then the EU stole ten of our good, English volts!

Have we got them back yet?

No they didn\'t. The reference simply changed to 230V, so that 220V
and 240V countries could use the same, single design of 230V
equipment, designed with a wide enough tolerance to cope with the
lowest permitted voltage on 220V systems and the highest permitted
voltage on 240V systems. The voltage supplied did not change.

Pointless as modern power supplies can easily accommodate wide ranges
of voltage. They should have left it up to manufacturers to decide
what range of voltage to cope with, depending on where they wanted to
sell the goods. 100-250V (50/60Hz) for Europe and US, 200-250V for UK
and Europe, 220-250V for UK only. Some goods are/were only suitable
for the UK due to language and TV system.

Euroharmonising for the sake of it.

+1. A more useless bit of virtue signalling \'harmonisation\' the EU has
yet to dream up.

If manufacturers want to cope with different voltages and frequencies
they can. Or not, if they dont.

But it is far easier for consumers (especially if buying from another
country within the block), to just look for the 230V designation and not
to have to look at other voltages and have to look up the technical
specs and check the tolerances.

I am fairly sure that one of my guitar amplifiers has an SMPSU that can
cope from 110V AC or DC to 240VAC or DC.

Back in the \'90s, I used a (14-track IIRC) tape recorder for recording
signals from vibration sensors on a 2.5MW 11kV ExP motor. The recorder
was specified for 12 to 400V ac or dc!

 

[Don Y]

On 2/15/2023 4:36 AM, Don Y wrote:

On 2/15/2023 3:48 AM, Mike Monett VE3BTI wrote:
Martin Brown <\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

The remaining big power hog is the garage lights.

Your fridge is a big power hog.

Our frig consumes in a year.  That;s about $.

Ugh, forgot to fill those numbers in before \"SEND\".

634KWHr (1700WHr/day) and ~$75

In perspective:
Washer: ~100KWHr (not counting cost of heating water)
Dryer: ~600KWHr

[So, \"laundry\" uses more than refrigerator]

Freezer: ~400
Dishwasher: ~200
TV (each): ~125
LCD Monitor: ~30

 

[Carlos E. R.]

On 2023-02-17 02:28, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Tue, 14 Feb 2023 14:13:05 -0000, Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote:
In message <tsfpf9$2g99s$5@dont-email.me>, Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> writes
On 12/02/2023 13:44, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-02-11 14:15, Commander Kinsey wrote:
 ...

My wife\'s car follows the European convention that the indicators are
on the left. Which is correct for the rest of Europe where they are all
LHD and drive on the right, but wrong for the UK.

I often turn on the wipers instead of signalling.

I certainly used to (especially in an unfamiliar car).

I turn the wipers faster instead of off.  My stupid Renault has up for
faster.  Never seen a wiper stalk work that way in a car.

My Corsa has up for faster. So did other cars I used (including Seat and
Renault).

I drove my neighbour\'s Rover 75 for her when she was ill, and I couldn\'t
find the headlights on the stalk.  It was a seperate switch on the
dashboard, which I couldn\'t find since it didn\'t even have a timer on
the interior light, so I was in pitch black as soon as I closed the door!

Then open the door :-D

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

 

[SteveW]

On 19/02/2023 16:17, Ian Jackson wrote:

In message <tsqpfn$1mha$2@dont-email.me>, Max Demian
max_demian@bigfoot.com> writes
On 18/02/2023 13:14, The Natural Philosopher wrote:




 \"The Electricity (Supply) Act 1919 merged the 600-odd local
generating  companies into area boards, who in turn were centralised
into the  Central Electricity Board by the Electricity Supply Act
1925. That is  when the voltage was standardised at 240V, and the
National Grid created.

And then the EU stole ten of our good, English volts!

Have we got them back yet?

We never lost them. In most places, the usual voltage is still around
240V. Without painstakingly checking the latest spec, the official UK
tolerance is 230V +10%/-6%, and the European is 230V +10%/-10%. [You do
the maths!] In my home, it\'s usually between 236 and 240V.

Pretty well spot on 240V here whenever I have checked.

 

[NY]

\"rbowman\" <bowman@montana.com> wrote in message
news:k5lj6qF71laU6@mid.individual.net...

On Tue, 21 Feb 2023 22:46:13 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ve23i5K334


It must be a fake!

I had a friend with a PhD in electronics who might have had a problem with
it. A full circuit analysis taking into account the internal resistance of
the battery and so forth would be easy.

He wasn\'t quiet that bad although he lived in his head and not the
physical world. One day he demonstrated why you shouldn\'t put a random
piece of wire across the terminals of a car battery to see if it is dead.
Spoiler: it wasn\'t.

Nasty. A teacher at my school, 40 years ago, had a blotchy face and bald
patches in his hair. He told us that he\'d been working on his car some years
before and a spanner slipped and shorted across the battery terminals. The
battery exploded, showering him with acid. Luckily he wore glasses which
shielded his eyes from getting acid in them. Nowadays car batteries have a
plastic shroud around the terminals to make it very difficult for a spanner
etc to touch both terminals (or the +ve and a grounded part of the car) at
the same time.

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-02-15 04:14, Don Y wrote:

On 2/14/2023 6:17 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Total energy, or just electricity?

Because my house is capped to 2300 watts of electricity. My hot
water and frugal heating is on butane.

I think the point was total energy consumption.  Otherwise, it
is super easy to meet -- just shift all of your energy consumption
to non-electric means.

Well, it depends a lot.

It depends on the climate of where you live. And transportation, which
can be private or public, short distance/medium/long.

You have to specify the environment.

In the US, there are wide variations in \"environments\".
I could \"get around\", when I lived in boston, much easier
(i.e., without personal transportation) than I can, here.
Folks who live in \"planned communities\" typically have
most services available in walking/(bike-)riding distances;
not so when the city sprawls...

Without considering the heating/cooling, and transportation, I can
certainly live under 2KW. I do, in fact. If it is an average, measured
over the whole day, then I can also add heating/cooling to the mix. No
problem.

If you are USAian, then you can\'t

I\'m sure we *can*.  We just don\'t *have* to.  And, have very little
incentive to try.

People change their driving habits when gasoline prices climb above
$4/gallon... why do they change BACK when prices fall?  (if you could
deal with driving less when prices were high, why can\'t you deal with
those same constraints when they are lower?)

Other forms of energy (natural gas, electricity) tend to see more
gradual changes in pricing.  So, you just get accustomed to a
\"$10\" increase in your monthly bill.  You might not be happy with
it but it\'s not annoying enough to force changes in behavior.

[Most folks pay $100/month -- or more -- for phone service,
TV/internet, etc.  If they are comfortable with that sort of outlay
for the capability of making and receiving phone calls, why would
they fret over a fraction of a dollar, per day, to continue with
the lifestyle to which they\'ve become accustomed?]

Well, here (Spain) it is more. Say ~0,0045..0,09€ per kilowatt
allowance, per day. With peak/valley differences. So a flat (apartment)
may pay 9€ month just to have 3.45 kW allowance.

(most people live in flats)
(median salary 1.757,4€/month, on 2021 stats)

Most homes, here, have 100A (or 200A) service -- so, figure
a rate of ~20,000W or 40,000W.  (I\'ve lived in homes with
~60A services -- ~12KW -- and found it really cramped)

Most people here have a 3..4 Kw limit on the whole house.

I have some lower income, elderly friends that probably have
that much available to them in their \"apartments\".  But, they
don\'t have room for multiple TVs, washer/dryer, full-size
refrigerator/range/dishwasher/microwave, garage, etc.  They
*might* have a personal laptop and likely a phone.  No
\"personal outdoor space\" or the energy/labor required to
maintain it.  They\'re unlikely to have any hobbies/activities
that use large amounts of power (woodworking, lathe,
power tools, etc.) or the space to store those types of kit.

And, many of their energy needs are \"institutionalized\"...
there\'s a central heating/cooling plant, a cafeteria that
prepares meals, an \"activities room\" with TV and other
amusements, a \"computer room\" so they have internet access
without having to worry about maintaining a \"personal\"
computer, etc.

That 3..4 Kw includes the washing machine (possibly a clothes drier),
fridge, the cooking range, microwave, oven, computer, TVs... Even AC.
Family with kids.

You just learn to not put the oven at the same time as the range and washer.


--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Tabby]

On Sunday, 19 February 2023 at 20:45:37 UTC, Don Y wrote:

On 2/19/2023 12:01 PM, Tabby wrote:
On Sunday, 19 February 2023 at 12:21:48 UTC, Don Y wrote:

Our refrigerator costs $76/year to operate (based on *some* sort of
\"standard\" which may or may not reflect how we will use it). Other models
of comparable capacity/features are $71 - $83 to operate. Should we have
opted for the $71/yr model (ignoring all else)? Would that $5/year have
made a difference for a $4000 refrigerator?

why on earth would anyone pay 4k for domestic fridge? If it\'s a catering
walk-in type, fair enough. Last I looked the standard new fridge was around
150.
I didn\'t say we *paid* $4000 for the refrigerator. Rather, that\'s
what the manufacturer wants you to consider its \"value\" to be.

One can find refrigerators at all different price points based
on size, reliability, warranty, appearance, features, etc.

how do you assess reliability?

Two \"big box\" stores (NOT catering to \"high end\" buyers):
https://www.homedepot.com/b/Appliances-Refrigerators/N-5yc1vZc3pi
www.lowes.com/c/Refrigerators-Appliances

none of the home despot links work. It doesn\'t matter, I\'m sure no domestic fridge is worth 4k

Want an ice maker? Want something besides plain white? Water dispenser
(with internal filter)? Crushed ice? Through the door dispensing? Counter
depth? A camera to see what\'s inside without opening the door (or, while
you\'re off shopping)? Door-in-door? HiTech?

No.

> Want to impress your friends? At only $10,400:

nor do I want to \'impress\' my friends with gross stupidity.

Kitchens are where most of the value in a home lies:

\"In its annual Cost vs. Value report for 2022, Remodeling Magazine
puts the national average for a midrange major kitchen remodel at
$80,809 and an upscale major kitchen remodel at $158,015. In the
Pacific region (Alaska, California, Washington and Oregon), according
to Remodeling Magazine, that same midrange major kitchen remodel
jumps to $88,229 and an upscale major kitchen remodel jumps up
$13,135 from the national average, to $171,150. Compare those costs
to the South Atlantic Region (Maryland, South Carolina, Florida, North
Carolina, Georgia, Virginia and Washington, D.C.) where a midrange
major kitchen remodel prices out at $77,770 and an upscale major
kitchen remodel is $152,672. The addition of luxury stone or marble
countertops, high-end faucets and flooring, a commercial-grade range
and luxury faucets can all significantly increase the cost of a renovation.

HomeAdvisor puts the average 2023 kitchen remodel price in the $14,549 to
$40,425 range. A small kitchen remodel can cost as little as $10-15,000 and
a lavish remodel can cost as much as $130,000+.\"

from
https://www.hgtv.com/design/remodel/kitchen-remodel/what-is-average-cost-remodel-kitchen

I can\'t speak for the US, but that has no connection with reality here

 

[James]

On 21/02/2023 09:46, Martin Brown wrote:

How does fullness affect required cooling power?

More thermal inertia in a full fridge or freezer so the compressor comes
on less often.

I found shorter duty cycle reduced power which I attributed to less heat
build up at the back around the motor and condenser. But yes, fullness
affects thermal inertia which does affect cycle length, it could easily
add power.

That is if it has a naïve thermostat. I used fixed duty cycle period
and adjusted the power like PWM but with a period of minutes and not
kHz+ like electronics PWM. This negated or averaged the short term
effects of door opening.

 

[rbowman]

On Sun, 19 Feb 2023 16:21:51 -0500, micky wrote:

\"Would you loan me a piece of paper\" kids say in school. They don\'t
plan to give it back. I think this sets the stage for the rest of their
lives.

You can always tell future Democrats.

 

[Peeler]

On Fri, 17 Feb 2023 18:44:02 +0000, NY, the really endlessly blathering,
notorious, troll-feeding, senile asshole, blathered, yet again:


> Most of that is true

ALL of that is just so much more TROLLSHIT, you idioti8c troll-feeding
senile SHITHEAD!

 

[Rod Speed]

On Mon, 20 Feb 2023 08:21:51 +1100, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 16 Feb 2023 14:58:42 +0000, NY
me@privacy.net> wrote:

On 16/02/2023 14:27, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 13 Feb 2023 13:32:14 -0000, NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
Sadly my dad lent all the Meccano to a work colleague for his son to
play
with, and when he came to ask for it back some year later the
colleague said
\"Oh, I thought you\'d *given* it to me, not lent it to me. When [son]
grew
too old for it, we took it to the tip.\" Grrrrrr. Old Meccano from the
1940s/50s would probably be worth a bit nowadays.

People who throw out usable stuff should be shot. Have they not heard
of Gumtree, Ebay, Freecycle? The government could make it a law
against
the environment or something.

Yes, my dad was not best pleased. He was planning to pass the Meccano on
to my nephews when they were old enough to play with it. I had hours of
fun making models, and learning about spur and helical gears, and gear
ratios (reduce rotational speed but increase torque proportionally).

Are you in NY

He is in Britain.

> or is that just your name?

Unlikely his parents called him that.

People don\'t understand the meaning of loan or lend.

\"Would you loan me a piece of paper\" kids say in school. They don\'t
plan to give it back. I think this sets the stage for the rest of their
lives.

Like refute, obviously, gentleman, i.e., e.g., all words or phrases that
are now used incorrectly more often than correctly.

And lady. Very few actually have a tiara.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2023 08:19:29 -0000, Smolley <s@home.net> wrote:

On Sun, 12 Feb 2023 12:36:23 +1100, Sylvia Else wrote:

On 11-Feb-23 7:16 pm, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Why do circuit breakers go up for on and down for off? Would they work
installed upside down?

Apart form other considerations, a switch is more likely to be
accidentally pushed down than up, and we want such accidents to be as
safe as possible.

Sylvia.

In the good old days when switches has sprung loaded toggles, there was no
reason to have any particular direction for the \'on\' position, but now
with the contacts now being a bit of bent beryllium copper, now the
switching action is ponderous.

I\'ve never encountered a non-sprung one.

 

[Bob F]

On 2/19/2023 1:10 PM, micky wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 13 Feb 2023 16:02:34 +0100, \"Carlos E. R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-02-13 14:32, NY wrote:
\"Carlos E.R.\" <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote in message
news:kufpbjxm4u.ln2@Telcontar.valinor...
Essentially a stalled motor is a damn great inductor.

One of these...

https://www.meccanospares.com/E15R-BK-O.html


Found mine.

https://images.app.goo.gl/F9SPtFogTbukss1L8


When I was little I used to play with my dad\'s Meccano from when he was
a boy.

Me too

I never heard of a Meccano until today. I\'m 76 and live in the USA.

I was given by a friend an Erector Set motor that he had burned out
iirc.

110v AC. I took it apart and the windings were wound around a square so
they had 4 corners for each loop and every corner was broken. I spent
hour scraping the enamel, the paint from the end of each segment and
twisting them together, trying to use as little as possible that way
because I didnt\' want to shorten the total length. I thought that would
lower the resistance, increase the amperage and it woldn\'t work right.

When it was all done, it actually worked, but instead of wrapping it in
cotton cloth, i\'d used friction tape, cloth tape with adhesive, the
precursor to vinyl electric tape. and after 30 seconds the adhesive got
hot and started to smoke iirc. I knew it would just get worse so I
unplugged it. And I didn\'t try to recover it because I figured the
adhesive had melted and was now stuck to the windings.

The thought of buying new wire in the first place never entered my mind.
We had a nice house on an enormous yard, but no spare money for things
like that. I got presents once a year and that was enough. No money for
projects.

I also had no real use for the motor.

I was just going to say that the pic reminded me of the motor in my
erector set when I was 5 yo. I remember building a crane a few feet tall
powered by that motor/gearbox.

Was a \"Meccano\" the same as an erector set?

Just looked it up. Looks like a \"new-fangled\" erector set. Building a
new-fangled crane.
https://www.amazon.com/Meccano-Construction-Motorized-Building-Education/dp/B000GOF5S2?th=1.


Mine involved way more small metal parts and hundreds of screws and nuts
to assemble them. And just as many to take apart to put it away.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2023 11:55:58 -0000, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 11/02/2023 19:32, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 2/11/23 06:23, Commander Kinsey wrote:

[snip]

Earth and neutral are the same thing. Only two wires enter my house
from the substation.

Depends on the country.

I see no reason to have two wires at the same voltage.

That\'s something I had trouble understanding.

They are at the same voltage when no current is being drawn. When
current is being drawn, there will be a voltage drop on the
current-carrying wire.

The point is that they are not at the same voltage. ,

By an insignificant amount. If I draw the full 100A from my house feed, I drop 4 volts.

 

[Don Y]

On 2/19/2023 4:01 PM, Tabby wrote:

On Sunday, 19 February 2023 at 20:45:37 UTC, Don Y wrote:
On 2/19/2023 12:01 PM, Tabby wrote:
On Sunday, 19 February 2023 at 12:21:48 UTC, Don Y wrote:

Our refrigerator costs $76/year to operate (based on *some* sort of
\"standard\" which may or may not reflect how we will use it). Other models
of comparable capacity/features are $71 - $83 to operate. Should we have
opted for the $71/yr model (ignoring all else)? Would that $5/year have
made a difference for a $4000 refrigerator?

why on earth would anyone pay 4k for domestic fridge? If it\'s a catering
walk-in type, fair enough. Last I looked the standard new fridge was around
150.
I didn\'t say we *paid* $4000 for the refrigerator. Rather, that\'s
what the manufacturer wants you to consider its \"value\" to be.

One can find refrigerators at all different price points based
on size, reliability, warranty, appearance, features, etc.

how do you assess reliability?

By reputation and past experiences. It\'s not a guarantee but I
suspect you\'ll have better (long term) results with GE than
ConServ or Equator. Sure, they *may* be the next great brand!
But, they can also be People\'s Refrigerator Company #244
and gone in a heartbeat. Let someone else experience their
\"joy\"!

Two \"big box\" stores (NOT catering to \"high end\" buyers):
https://www.homedepot.com/b/Appliances-Refrigerators/N-5yc1vZc3pi
www.lowes.com/c/Refrigerators-Appliances

none of the home despot links work. It doesn\'t matter, I\'m sure no domestic fridge is worth 4k

One can live with a 1.5 cu ft refrigerator. Really! You just spend
a lot of time transiting between the store and your kitchen. Or,
eating out. You place constrains on your life in lieu of buying that
independence (we have *NO* debt so what we spend is entirely a matter
of what we WANT to spend).

In college, my dorm had a kitchen in every room. But, it was tiny -- about
6 cu ft. OTOH, I can\'t ever recall making a sit-down meal for any guests.
And, I could take my meals at any of the restaurants on campus or in
the cafeteria if I didn\'t have anything worth making in *my* frig.

Nearest store is about 2.5 miles round-trip. So, if I am willing to
live with their selection and their prices, I either have to resign
myself to 40 minutes of walking (20+20) *or* running the car for
that short hop. Maybe a short trip through the Tunnel and dine
on The Continent, tonight?

*Or*, I can keep everything that I am likely to need (without even knowing
what those needs are likely to be, for the next week) on hand and just
make a point of \"stocking up\" once a week, or so.

Want to bake brownies? Make some ice cream? Have a steak dinner?
Chicken Parmigiana? Bake a cheesecake? Lasagna? etc. I don\'t have
to leave the house to do so. (what do all those little jaunts cost
in terms of energy and out of pocket expenses?)

Want an ice maker? Want something besides plain white? Water dispenser
(with internal filter)? Crushed ice? Through the door dispensing? Counter
depth? A camera to see what\'s inside without opening the door (or, while
you\'re off shopping)? Door-in-door? HiTech?

No.

Icemaker is almost taken for granted. I can\'t recall the last
time I saw an ice tray! A bachelor might be satisfied with a
plain white refrigerator (likely seldom cleaned) as the kitchen
is just a *functional* place -- like the bathroom: prep meal
and get the hell out! Here, kitchens are one of the parts of
the house of which new buyers are most critical.

I find through-the-door a waste of useful volume as the interior
of that door is effectively forfeit to the icemaker/crusher
and water dispenser. But, folks with kids likely find it a
big convenience as they aren\'t constantly opening the
door to the refrigerator just to get some ice or a cold
beverage.

[As a kid, I was perpetually being reminded to \"shut the damn door\"
and not sit \"browsing\" with it open!]

Counter-depth is a real win. It\'s amazing how much less
dominating the frig becomes of the space.

\"Technology\" in a frig? No thanks. One more thing to break.
OTOH, multiple evaporators is a game-changer!

Want to impress your friends? At only $10,400:

nor do I want to \'impress\' my friends with gross stupidity.

You likely are very practical -- walk or ride a bicycle everywhere
(as anything more than that would be extravagant?)

What do you do with the monies you have above and beyond what you *need*
to exist? Donate them back to The State? (then why didn\'t you retire
all those years earlier to ENJOY the time you have on the planet, instead
of working for \"non-stupid\" things?) Sounds pretty silly...

Kitchens are where most of the value in a home lies:

\"In its annual Cost vs. Value report for 2022, Remodeling Magazine
puts the national average for a midrange major kitchen remodel at
$80,809 and an upscale major kitchen remodel at $158,015. In the
Pacific region (Alaska, California, Washington and Oregon), according
to Remodeling Magazine, that same midrange major kitchen remodel
jumps to $88,229 and an upscale major kitchen remodel jumps up
$13,135 from the national average, to $171,150. Compare those costs
to the South Atlantic Region (Maryland, South Carolina, Florida, North
Carolina, Georgia, Virginia and Washington, D.C.) where a midrange
major kitchen remodel prices out at $77,770 and an upscale major
kitchen remodel is $152,672. The addition of luxury stone or marble
countertops, high-end faucets and flooring, a commercial-grade range
and luxury faucets can all significantly increase the cost of a renovation.

HomeAdvisor puts the average 2023 kitchen remodel price in the $14,549 to
$40,425 range. A small kitchen remodel can cost as little as $10-15,000 and
a lavish remodel can cost as much as $130,000+.\"

from
https://www.hgtv.com/design/remodel/kitchen-remodel/what-is-average-cost-remodel-kitchen

I can\'t speak for the US, but that has no connection with reality here

Reality THERE hardly matters to me, here, eh?