v for frequency?...

[Gerhard Hoffmann]

Am 29.05.23 um 16:22 schrieb John Larkin:
hem\" ?

I wonder what French or Italian or English cheese was like 500 years
ago. I know that many dairy products transmitted diseases.

As our Latin teacher told us more than once, that \"caseus\" was
the ONLY loanword the Romans took into Latin from Germanic tribes.

(In the US, most states require all dairy products to be pasteurized
or equivalent.)

10 min. under a cobalt source???

I suspect that a minority of europeans could often afford cheese 500
years ago. Malnutrition was usual.

In contrary, making cheese was THE method of safely preserving
milk, other than making butter, which does not use the proteins.

When I was in Nepals > 30 years ago (OMG!) for the first time,
I stumbled across a dairy in the Everest region (way from
Lukla->Jiri) where they made hard cheese from yacc milk. It
tasted like Appenzeller, probably because it was a foreign aid
project from Switzerland. Making hard cheese is easy and safe,
and it was even with bronze time resources. Just know-how.

I even dared to try a bowl of yacc yoghurt with wild honey
there, no side effects. Yummy!

Gerhard

 

[Rod Speed]

On Mon, 29 May 2023 21:04:30 +1000, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 29/05/2023 03:15, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 29 May 2023 08:09:55 +1000, Rod Speed wrote:

On Mon, 29 May 2023 03:03:38 +1000, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Sun, 28 May 2023 09:43:29 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 27/05/2023 22:24, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2023-05-27, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:
On 27/05/2023 16:50, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2023-05-27, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com
wrote:

We never had food rationing.

During WWII we did. Our rationing ended long before the UK\'s.

Do you mean when Americans only had 15 different kinds of ice cream
flavours?

Your point that our rationing wasn\'t as bad as your rationing is
taken. However, the U.S. had rationing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Rationing_in_the_United_States#World_War_II

Of course our food rationing wasn\'t as bad as yours, because we had
a
lot more acreage under cultivation. And nobody was bombing it.

\"At the start of the Second World War in 1939, the United Kingdom
was
importing 20 million long tons of food per year, including about 70%
of its cheese and sugar, almost 80% of fruit and about 70% of
cereals
and fats. The UK also imported more than half of its meat and relied
on imported feed to support its domestic meat production.\"

You guys were in real trouble, no doubt about it.

While you guys sat back and made money out of us, till Japan kicked
you in the balls.

The US population was wary of millenia of non-stop european wars.

Yes.

As continue today.

Not in western europe they don\'t.
Western Europe doesn\'t have the wherewithal to have a good, old
fashioned
war. That may be why they\'re so fascinated with a proxy war in eastern
Europe. Britain still thinks it\'s in a position to affect the balance of
power on the continent.

And it is in fact completely correct in that assumption. It does.
The Storm Shadows it has supplied are having a huge impact of Russian
logistics.
And now Britain has supplied them, France doesnt want to feel left out
and will be supplying French made ones, which they call SCALPS.

It was the UKs decision to send a token dozen main battle tanks with no
nuclear retaliation by Moscow, that emboldened the USA and Germany to
send Aramms and leopard tanks, respectively.

BULLSHIT.

It is on UK soil that the USAF has all its F15s and F35s, its Rivet
joint surveillance aircraft and its stratotankers, that are all buzzing
round over my head as a deterrent and in support of intelligence
gathering along Ukraine\'s borders.

Just because Biden hates the UK, doesn\'t mean that a lot of US military
personnel are not stationed here interoperating seamlessly with UK
military personnel, and cooperating on joint manoeuvres that see e.g.
B52s patrolling the Baltic escorted by Eurofighters.

We are effectively at war here. In alliance with all our NATO partners.
Including the USA.

And we all make a difference.

 

[rbowman]

On Mon, 29 May 2023 12:50:16 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Well the best cheddars in te UK are off white with a slight buttery
tinge. Red Leciester is the only red tinged cheese I can think off, and
all the other cheese worldwide that I have ever experienced are all in
narrow shade of white, (fetta, mozarrella, caerphilly\' to more or less
straw coloured. With or without blue veining.
Bright yellow cheese is US processed muck. And I wouldn\'t really call it
cheese.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brunost

Gjetost isn\'t really cheese either but I like it.

https://www.tillamook.com/products/cheese/medium-cheddar-block

Tillamook isn\'t bad but they use annatto to satisfy the US conception of
what cheddar cheese looks like.

 

[Rod Speed]

On Mon, 29 May 2023 21:16:24 +1000, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 29/05/2023 03:25, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 29 May 2023 08:46:34 +1000, Rod Speed wrote:

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote

While you guys sat back and made money out of us, till Japan kicked
you in the balls.

Roosevelt\'s idea of \'neutrality\' was as lopsided as Wilson\'s. It would
have been better to sit back and let WWI take its course.

Better for who ?
Ultimately the world, I believe. A more equitable treaty might have
headed
off WWII. Britain wanted to make sure Germany never challenged their
military or economic hegemony and France was still butt hurt about 1871.
Wilson, with all his idealism, was as addled as Biden.

Nothing would have satved of WWII.

The Germans wanted their Lebensraum, and it wasn\'t the treaties, its was
the world economic collapse of the 1930s that ulimately gave
justification to Hitlers claims that it was the worldwide Jewish
conspiracy especially Jewish bankers that were to blame for everything.

A view that was quite commonly held across the European aristocracy.

War was simply inevitable because Germany ended up in such an economic
mess that only a war would distract from it and justify it.

In fact Germany has recovered completely from the great
depression long before it chose military adventurism.

The problem was that the recovery was done the same way
FDR did the US recovery, massive deficit spending, and in
the case of Germany there was never going to be any way to
pay for that, so the obvious approach was military adventurism
to hide that and avoid paying those massive loans back.

And no one who has watched the Nuremberg rallies or listened to the
testaments of those alive than can have any doubt that the emotional
stance of the German people was for it 100%.

Nothing is ever 100%

Only a few more intelligent ones understood the implications.

Japan was a good example of a possible outcome when sanctions and
embargoes are used against a rising nation that feels it has a better
founded interest in East Asia than a country an ocean away.

Bit hard on the chinese tho.
So it goes. Japan, China, and Korea have as much right to fratricidal
wars
as Europe.

Wars are good things. They allow more efficient cultures to conquer less
efficient ones, and reduce populations an pressure on resources by
killing dozens of young over testosteroned fertile males, and genocide
gets rid of the tensions caused by \'diversity\'.

In fact even the world wars had little effect on population.

The experience on the survivors is also salutary. They shut up and stop
whining and count themselves lucky to be alive and at some sort of peace.

It all started with Perry\'s Black Ships. The ruling oligarchs in the
US

No such animal.

Well, whatever you want to call a political system that\'s sold to the
highest bidder. That \"government of the people, by the people, for the
people\" was nice rhetoric but was bullshit even as it left Lincoln\'s
mouth.

Indeed it was.
Unless \'the people\' meant the English aristocrats who had moved over
there and claimed it for themselves.
Anyone who regards government as anything more than a necessary evil to
be avoided at all costs except where there is no other alternative is an
idiot.

 

[rbowman]

On Mon, 29 May 2023 06:45:13 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

Tillamook cheddar
from Oregon is as good as any import.

Their block cheddar isn\'t bad as a utility cheese. The Makers Reserve is
good, if you can find it. In this market I get the Kerrygold Dubliner if I
want a nice sharp cheese even if it isn\'t technically cheddar or their
Reserve Cheddar if I can find it.

 

[rbowman]

On Mon, 29 May 2023 13:56:23 GMT, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

Of course. But we started off talking about mac & cheese in the little
blue box.

Well, we actually started off talking about the symbol for frequency

 

[rbowman]

On Mon, 29 May 2023 07:22:25 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

I suspect that a minority of europeans could often afford cheese 500
years ago. Malnutrition was usual.

500 years ago was prior to the Industrial Revolution when people were
herded off the land and into the dark satanic mills. Most would have had
at least one cow, sheep, or goat. You can only use so much milk so cheese
was made to store the surplus, or if you really had a surplus, to feed the
hogs.

It took industrialization to create widespread malnutrition, or sometimes
outside forces. Ireland was a net exporter of food during the Famine. The
beefeaters had to have their beef.

 

[rbowman]

On Mon, 29 May 2023 16:42:25 -0000 (UTC), Bev wrote:

TNP does like to be quite an objectionable person, and has decided he
has killfiled me so will miss this. As an aside why do those who \'Plonk\'
think it has any effect on the poster?

I really don\'t care what happens to trolls like peeler as long as I don\'t
have to wade through their tripe.

 

[rbowman]

On Mon, 29 May 2023 19:31:31 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:

When I was in Nepals > 30 years ago (OMG!) for the first time,
I stumbled across a dairy in the Everest region (way from Lukla->Jiri)
where they made hard cheese from yacc milk. It tasted like Appenzeller,
probably because it was a foreign aid project from Switzerland. Making
hard cheese is easy and safe,
and it was even with bronze time resources. Just know-how.

A farm down the road started with sheep but switched to goats and one
lonely looking yak. They have a sign advertising goat milk. I\'ve been
meaning to stop to get some and also find out why they switched from sheep
and if they milk the yak (assuming it\'s a cow).

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 29/05/2023 17:00, John Larkin wrote:

On Mon, 29 May 2023 15:28:25 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 29/05/2023 15:22, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 29 May 2023 14:56:37 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 29/05/2023 14:45, John Larkin wrote:
The USA is more than Kraft now.

Only took them 500 years.

\"Them\" ?
Merkins


What a nasty person you are. Is that standard in the UK?

The USA defines a rectangle 4000 x 5000 miles. It\'s land area is 4
million square miles with 50 states, 330 million people, a zillion
cultures and climates and cuisines, glaciers to high desert, and 20K
miles of coastline.

And you obviously stereotype it. That\'s sure easy.

Please stay where you are and we\'ll all be happy.

I was merely pointing out than in all of the above, there is a total
dearth of cheese varieties

--
The biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly
diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential
survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with
what it actually is.

 

[Rod Speed]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 00:22:25 +1000, John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Mon, 29 May 2023 14:56:37 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 29/05/2023 14:45, John Larkin wrote:
The USA is more than Kraft now.

Only took them 500 years.

\"Them\" ?

I wonder what French or Italian or English cheese was like 500 years
ago.

Mostly pretty much the same as now.

> I know that many dairy products transmitted diseases.

Nope, that\'s the reason cheese was invented.

(In the US, most states require all dairy products to be pasteurized
or equivalent.)

I suspect that a minority of europeans could often afford cheese 500
years ago.

You\'d be wrong about that. Most would have had cows and goats.

> Malnutrition was usual.

Not because they couldnt afford cheese.

Cheap cheese and expensive cheese are options now. Some people like
boxed mac+cheese, especially kids. You have permission to buy or cook
something else.

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 29/05/2023 19:45, rbowman wrote:

On Mon, 29 May 2023 07:22:25 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

I suspect that a minority of europeans could often afford cheese 500
years ago. Malnutrition was usual.

500 years ago was prior to the Industrial Revolution when people were
herded off the land and into the dark satanic mills. Most would have had
at least one cow, sheep, or goat. You can only use so much milk so cheese
was made to store the surplus, or if you really had a surplus, to feed the
hogs.

It took industrialization to create widespread malnutrition, or sometimes
outside forces. Ireland was a net exporter of food during the Famine. The
beefeaters had to have their beef.

No. Populations boomed in the industrial age due to better nutrition.

--
The biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly
diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential
survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with
what it actually is.

 

[John Larkin]

On Mon, 29 May 2023 16:42:25 -0000 (UTC), Bev <none@forme.com> wrote:

On Mon, 29 May 2023 09:00:41 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

On Mon, 29 May 2023 15:28:25 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 29/05/2023 15:22, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 29 May 2023 14:56:37 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 29/05/2023 14:45, John Larkin wrote:
The USA is more than Kraft now.

Only took them 500 years.

\"Them\" ?
Merkins


What a nasty person you are. Is that standard in the UK?

Most certainly not.

And you obviously stereotype it. That\'s sure easy.

TNP does like to be quite an objectionable person, and has decided he has
killfiled me so will miss this. As an aside why do those who \'Plonk\'
think it has any effect on the poster?


Please stay where you are and we\'ll all be happy.

Sorry to disagree here but... are you sure you couldn\'t find a home
somewhere in your rather large \'forgotten areas\'. I for one would be
quite happy for him to find a new home where he can continue to expound
his vast \'knowledge\' to the few who still believe he has great knowledge
and experience in just about anything you can name.

The USA is so big and diverse it\'s hard for even a native to grasp it
all. But yes, he is welcome to a small plot of land somewhere in the
Arizona desert or the Lousiana swamps where he can camp and deplore
all the rest.

 

[Rod Speed]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 01:27:21 +1000, John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Mon, 29 May 2023 15:13:05 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 29/05/2023 15:09, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 29 May 2023 11:54:31 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 28/05/2023 22:36, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 28 May 2023 09:41:30 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

It gradually gor better but some imported goods remained expensive
for a
long time. Hitlers U-boats shagged the merchant fleets something
rotten.

Payback for the blockade of Germany that was enforced for 8 months
after
the Armistice was a bitch.

Well. Germany had sorta really started WWI, and bombed England, France
Belgium and IIRC Holland, so the Allies were somewhat pissed.
Then when Germany used all that as an excuse to start WWII, and made a
bloody fucking mess of most of Europe, and quite a lot of Africa and
the
middle east, we did get pissed again.
We tolerate the USA\'s colonialism, because at the end of the day its
just business. Nothing against you injuns personally, we just want
your
land to grow crops and herd beef on. Its the death and glory boys from
e.g. Russia we don\'t like.

I think that British and US \"colonialism\" were both net benefits to
the world. And, realistically, unavoidable.

The US natives now have anglo names, are literate, have horses and
houses and pickup trucks and beer and pizza and casinos and cataract
surgery. Few are voluntarily living off the land as hunter-gatherers.
Tribal warfare is now mostly on the internet.

The world hates Britain because, by and large, they were better off when
we were in charge.

I don\'t think the world hates Britain. As someone recently said,
Broken English is the most popular language on Earth.

The world hates Russia, because, by and large, they were worse off when
they were in charge.

Russia is an outlier in many ways. Pity, it should have been another
nice, bland, prosperous european country. It\'s locked into a bad
state.


It\'s all a matter of whether pride or reason dominates the pysche.

The US is interesting. There is no racial majority in my part of the
country. Everybody is drinking with and sleeping with and having kids
with everyone else. Diffusion has mostly defeated tribalism and
racism.

Eventually all of earth will be genetically homogenized.

Don\'t believe that.

 

[Rod Speed]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 01:38:30 +1000, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:

On 29/05/2023 15:57, Scott Lurndal wrote:
John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> writes:
On Mon, 29 May 2023 11:54:31 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 28/05/2023 22:36, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 28 May 2023 09:41:30 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

It gradually gor better but some imported goods remained expensive
for a
long time. Hitlers U-boats shagged the merchant fleets something
rotten.

Payback for the blockade of Germany that was enforced for 8 months
after
the Armistice was a bitch.

Well. Germany had sorta really started WWI, and bombed England, France
Belgium and IIRC Holland, so the Allies were somewhat pissed.
Then when Germany used all that as an excuse to start WWII, and made a
bloody fucking mess of most of Europe, and quite a lot of Africa and
the
middle east, we did get pissed again.
We tolerate the USA\'s colonialism, because at the end of the day its
just business. Nothing against you injuns personally, we just want
your
land to grow crops and herd beef on. Its the death and glory boys from
e.g. Russia we don\'t like.

I think that British and US \"colonialism\" were both net benefits to
the world. And, realistically, unavoidable.
I disagree. European colonialism competition has directly
led to the modern state of affairs in the middle east, far east
and southern hemisphere. And it continues with with the Russian
invasion of Ukraine today.

Nobody can predict what North America would currently be
in an alternate history where Colonialism didn\'t exist.

Don\'t buy that given how long they had been going before any white men
showed up.

> After my earlier post I was thinking along similar lines.

I don\'t.

African countries were carved up with convenient borders. However many
tribes would have long standing issues with the neighbours such that a
stable government was never going to happen.

One genocide comes to mind.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_genocide

But that was quite unusual.

> Of course we could blame the Belgians for that.

And there is quite a bit of evidence for that.

Some myopic people will still bury their head and say colonialism was
good for Africa!

They do live a lot better than they did before any white man showed up

 

[Rod Speed]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 01:50:35 +1000, John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Mon, 29 May 2023 14:57:41 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> writes:
On Mon, 29 May 2023 11:54:31 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 28/05/2023 22:36, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 28 May 2023 09:41:30 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

It gradually gor better but some imported goods remained expensive
for a
long time. Hitlers U-boats shagged the merchant fleets something
rotten.

Payback for the blockade of Germany that was enforced for 8 months
after
the Armistice was a bitch.

Well. Germany had sorta really started WWI, and bombed England, France
Belgium and IIRC Holland, so the Allies were somewhat pissed.
Then when Germany used all that as an excuse to start WWII, and made a
bloody fucking mess of most of Europe, and quite a lot of Africa and
the
middle east, we did get pissed again.
We tolerate the USA\'s colonialism, because at the end of the day its
just business. Nothing against you injuns personally, we just want
your
land to grow crops and herd beef on. Its the death and glory boys from
e.g. Russia we don\'t like.

I think that British and US \"colonialism\" were both net benefits to
the world. And, realistically, unavoidable.

I disagree. European colonialism competition has directly
led to the modern state of affairs in the middle east, far east
and southern hemisphere. And it continues with with the Russian
invasion of Ukraine today.

The modern state of affairs is that most of the world has electricity,
literacy, science, food, medicine, travel, womens and minority rights,
and choices in life.

All that descended from the Greeks

Nope.

and
disseminated through colonialism.

Nope.

The power provided by modern civilization has lagged the morality -
jeeps and guns are ahead of democracy in many places now - but things
will eventually smooth out.

That remains to be seen.

Nobody can predict what North America would currently be
in an alternate history where Colonialism didn\'t exist.

It would look like it had looked for 20,000 years or so.

Yep.

 

[John Larkin]

On Mon, 29 May 2023 19:31:31 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de>
wrote:

Am 29.05.23 um 16:22 schrieb John Larkin:
hem\" ?

I wonder what French or Italian or English cheese was like 500 years
ago. I know that many dairy products transmitted diseases.

As our Latin teacher told us more than once, that \"caseus\" was
the ONLY loanword the Romans took into Latin from Germanic tribes.

(In the US, most states require all dairy products to be pasteurized
or equivalent.)

10 min. under a cobalt source???

Cheese here has to be made from pasteurized milk (flash heated, like
72c for 15 seconds) or aged for at least 60 days to let most of the
bugs die out.

Milk was once a major vector for tuberculosis and some other nasties.

There are occasional fads here for raw milk, typically with
unfortunate side effects, like dead babies. Odwalla killed some people
with unpasteurized fruit juices too.

 

[rbowman]

On Mon, 29 May 2023 12:16:24 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Nothing would have satved of WWII.

The Germans wanted their Lebensraum, and it wasn\'t the treaties, its was
the world economic collapse of the 1930s that ulimately gave
justification to Hitlers claims that it was the worldwide Jewish
conspiracy especially Jewish bankers that were to blame for everything.

A view that was quite commonly held across the European aristocracy.

He wasn\'t an aristocrat but Ford and his mentor Edison held that belief.
Both were innovators who thought they\'d been screwed by the Wall Street
money interests.

Versailles and the subsequent actions provided plenty of fodder.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Ruhr
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Rhineland

The use of the colonial troops by the French was seen as a real insult.

The collapse and the rise of the KPD was frosting on the cake. Europe had
witnessed the Red Terror in several countries.

War was simply inevitable because Germany ended up in such an economic
mess that only a war would distract from it and justify it. And no one
who has watched the Nuremberg rallies or listened to the testaments of
those alive than can have any doubt that the emotional stance of the
German people was for it 100%.

Riefenstahl may have invented photojournalism and did an impressive job.
Despite the very tightly controlled photo ops of Biden strolling down the
street for an ice cream cone it\'s been a long time since a US president
rode around in an open car or strolled through the crowd kissing babies.

In one of the speeches captured in \'Triumph\' Hitler says \'They don\'t
understand us.\' That seems to be a recurring problem with western
liberalism. Today they are clutching their pearls over Erdogan\'s win
yesterday. It\'s inconceivable the Turks don\'t want what they are selling.

 

[Ed P]

On 5/29/2023 2:32 PM, rbowman wrote:

On Mon, 29 May 2023 06:45:13 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

Tillamook cheddar
from Oregon is as good as any import.

Their block cheddar isn\'t bad as a utility cheese. The Makers Reserve is
good, if you can find it. In this market I get the Kerrygold Dubliner if I
want a nice sharp cheese even if it isn\'t technically cheddar or their
Reserve Cheddar if I can find it.

For years I used to by Cabot Seriously Sharp. Decent cheese. One time
though, I tried Kerrygold Reserve. No going back. I get it at BJs.

 

[Max Demian]

On 29/05/2023 16:27, John Larkin wrote:

The US is interesting. There is no racial majority in my part of the
country. Everybody is drinking with and sleeping with and having kids
with everyone else. Diffusion has mostly defeated tribalism and
racism. Eventually all of earth will be genetically homogenized.

I\'m not sure the Blue Mink theory will stand Mendelian genetics, or it
will require even more miscegenation.

--
Max Demian