Use different size wire in electro clutch?

[Fred Abse]

On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 02:27:19 +0000, Eeyore wrote:

DaveC wrote:
The coil in an industrial electromagnetic clutch (connecting the flywheel to
the drive mechanism) has gone open-circuit. So it is being rewound by a motor
rewind shop.

I was just informed that the original wire was about 12 ga. (maybe slightly
larger; original was metric) but it was rewound using 10 ga.

Why do Americans persist in using stupid AWG that no-one else in the
world uses except to entertain you ?

Have you never heard of mm^2 ?

Metric magnet wire (enameled copper wire to you) is usually specced in
diameter, rather than cross sectional area.



--
"Electricity is of two kinds, positive and negative. The difference
is, I presume, that one comes a little more expensive, but is more
durable; the other is a cheaper thing, but the moths get into it."
(Stephen Leacock)

 

[Fred Abse]

On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 17:53:22 -0800, DaveC wrote:

The coil in an industrial electromagnetic clutch (connecting the
flywheel to the drive mechanism) has gone open-circuit. So it is being
rewound by a motor rewind shop.

I was just informed that the original wire was about 12 ga.

"About 12 gauge" is hardly an engineering statement. Didn't they use
a micrometer?

Possibly 2mm diameter.


(maybe slightly

larger; original was metric) but it was rewound using 10 ga.

Should I be worried about this change in wire size? Will this change the
magnet's strength significantly? The current draw?

#12 wire is 2.053mm dia. #10 is 2.588.

Best practice would be to wind for the same number of amp-turns as before.

From wire tables, changing from #12 to #10 wire,the resistance of the same
number of turns will decrease by a factor of approximately 0.6. The
current will correspondingly increase by a factor of approximately 1.6,
hence so will the amp-turns, assuming the supply voltage stays constant.
How much the strength of the magnet will increase depends upon the
magnetic properties of the magnet iron. If the magnet was originally
operated close to saturation, the increase in pulling strength may not be
very much.

The power dissipated in the copper is proportional to current squared,
hence 1.6 for the same voltage. The coil will run hotter.

There's also the issue of supply regulation. Will the transformer supply
the increased current without significant voltage drop?


Why did they rewind it using #10? Didn't they have any #12? I'm surprised
they didn't have metric sizes, there are a lot of Japanese and European
motors around.


--
"Electricity is of two kinds, positive and negative. The difference
is, I presume, that one comes a little more expensive, but is more
durable; the other is a cheaper thing, but the moths get into it."
(Stephen Leacock)

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

John Fields wrote:

On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 16:34:42 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:


John Fields wrote:

On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:06:47 -0700, "bg" <bg@nospam.com> wrote:

Metric is for people that have to count on their fingers !

I prefer base 21.


Only because 42 is the second number in that base.

---
Nope, it's because I can use all my "digits" to count with.

Now you're just teasing the donkey, who can only count to four that
way...


--
Offworld checks no longer accepted!

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

krw wrote:

On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 16:34:42 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:


John Fields wrote:

On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:06:47 -0700, "bg" <bg@nospam.com> wrote:

Metric is for people that have to count on their fingers !

I prefer base 21.

The subject excites you?

Only because 42 is the second number in that base.

Everyone knows that 42 is in base 13. ;-)

You're wayyyy off base...


--
Offworld checks no longer accepted!

 

[krw]

On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 04:55:42 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

krw wrote:

On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 16:34:42 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:


John Fields wrote:

On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:06:47 -0700, "bg" <bg@nospam.com> wrote:

Metric is for people that have to count on their fingers !

I prefer base 21.

The subject excites you?

Only because 42 is the second number in that base.

Everyone knows that 42 is in base 13. ;-)


You're wayyyy off base...

No, my position is pretty safe.

 

[Ron]

krw wrote:

On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 04:55:42 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

krw wrote:
On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 16:34:42 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

John Fields wrote:
On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:06:47 -0700, "bg" <bg@nospam.com> wrote:
Metric is for people that have to count on their fingers !
I prefer base 21.
The subject excites you?

Only because 42 is the second number in that base.
Everyone knows that 42 is in base 13. ;-)

You're wayyyy off base...

No, my position is pretty safe.

All your base are belong to us

 

[Eeyore]

James Sweet wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
DaveC wrote:
The coil in an industrial electromagnetic clutch (connecting the
flywheel to the drive mechanism) has gone open-circuit. So it is being
rewound by a motor rewind shop.

I was just informed that the original wire was about 12 ga. (maybe
slightly larger; original was metric) but it was rewound using 10 ga.

Why do Americans persist in using stupid AWG that no-one else in the
world uses except to entertain you ?

Have you never heard of mm^2 ?

Graham

You paint with a wide brush. I'd be perfectly content to use metric, and
end up using both systems regularly but it's not as if it's up to me
what the whole country uses.

The USA is 'supposed' to be metricated. hy you choose to be so backward never
fails to amaze me. Any given wire gauge covers a wide range of
cross-sectional areas. At least you know what you're getting with mm2.

Graham


--
due to the hugely increased level of spam please make the obvious adjustment
to my email address

 

[Eeyore]

jjh wrote:

Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@removethishotmail.com> wrote:
DaveC wrote:
The coil in an industrial electromagnetic clutch (connecting the flywheel to
the drive mechanism) has gone open-circuit. So it is being rewound by a motor
rewind shop.

I was just informed that the original wire was about 12 ga. (maybe slightly
larger; original was metric) but it was rewound using 10 ga.

Why do Americans persist in using stupid AWG that no-one else in the
world uses except to entertain you ?

Have you never heard of mm^2 ?

Graham

Now that is a helpful comment.

It is indeed. AWG does not specify an explicit conductor CSA.

Maybe because we are??? Why are there
three distinct classes of units in physics? (eventhough SI units are
somewhat universal).

TOTALLY universal except for the USA, Liberia and Burma / Myanmar, both somewhat
backward countries you have chosen to retain compatability with. Some might say the
USA is rather backward too. The high level of belief in religion is one pointer to
that.

Cross sectional area and diameter are basic parameters that engineers understand
and taught to convert between any system of units.

Conversion is a waste of time and a source of errors. There is only ONE system of
units I need for engineering.

Difference between an engineer and an hack? I like
blue, you may like purple. Our rocket went to the moon, you don't
have one...Sheese, don't ya have enough nits to pick?

And what did you get from going to the Moon ?

Furthermore we have ESA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Space_Agency
and Galileo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_(satellite_navigation)

It knocks spots off GPS.

Graham

--
due to the hugely increased level of spam please make the obvious adjustment to my
email address

 

[Eeyore]

Rich Webb wrote:

Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@removethishotmail.com> wrote:
DaveC wrote:

The coil in an industrial electromagnetic clutch (connecting the flywheel to
the drive mechanism) has gone open-circuit. So it is being rewound by a motor
rewind shop.

I was just informed that the original wire was about 12 ga. (maybe slightly
larger; original was metric) but it was rewound using 10 ga.

Why do Americans persist in using stupid AWG that no-one else in the
world uses except to entertain you ?

Mostly inertia, of course. On the other hand, the AWG scale is right
simple to use to swag the nominal wire resistance, given that it's a log
scale and starting with AWG 10 = 1 ohm/1000 feet (yeah, "feet" but ...).

Oh dear ! Is that how it was specified ? At what temperature btw ?

Graham

due to the hugely increased level of spam please make the obvious adjustment to my
email address

 

[Eeyore]

bg wrote:

Metric is for people that have to count on their fingers !

What an absurd comment. Do you have 12 fingers so you can count in inches to the
foot ?

Graham


--
due to the hugely increased level of spam please make the obvious adjustment to
my email address

 

[Eeyore]

Ron wrote:

of course as any fool knows it should be either SWG or thousanths of an
inch

LOL ! Give me a thou over a 'mil' anyday. Only the Americans could confuse a
metric prefix with an old unit.

Not to mention that if you use the word 'mil' in the UK it means a millimetre.

Graham


--
due to the hugely increased level of spam please make the obvious adjustment to
my email address

 

[Eeyore]

John Fields wrote:

Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@removethishotmail.com> wrote:
DaveC wrote:

The coil in an industrial electromagnetic clutch (connecting the flywheel to
the drive mechanism) has gone open-circuit. So it is being rewound by a motor
rewind shop.

I was just informed that the original wire was about 12 ga. (maybe slightly
larger; original was metric) but it was rewound using 10 ga.

Why do Americans persist in using stupid AWG that no-one else in the
world uses except to entertain you ?

---
Because we like to be entertained by watching loons like you go bonkers
when we force you to step outside of your wretched little comfort zones?

I didn't go bonkers at all. I just picked an easy target to stir you up.

America: "Hello, Europe, we'd like to buy 50,000 pounds of #10 AWG OFHC
double formvar magnet wire.

Europe: But... but all we have is metric sizes, in kilograms, boo hoo.

We can convert too, you know. Thankfully only an issue for you lot.

Have you never heard of mm^2 ?

---
Sure we have.

So what?

Why don't you use it ?

Graham


--
due to the hugely increased level of spam please make the obvious adjustment to my
email address

 

[Eeyore]

"Paul Hovnanian P.E." wrote:

That's enough arguing already! Lets compromise and use the FFF units system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FFF_system

--
Paul Hovnanian paul@hovnanian.com

I don't see cubits mentioned there.

Graham

due to the hugely increased level of spam please make the obvious adjustment to
my email address

 

[Jamie]

Eeyore wrote:

James Sweet wrote:


Eeyore wrote:

DaveC wrote:

The coil in an industrial electromagnetic clutch (connecting the
flywheel to the drive mechanism) has gone open-circuit. So it is being
rewound by a motor rewind shop.

I was just informed that the original wire was about 12 ga. (maybe
slightly larger; original was metric) but it was rewound using 10 ga.

Why do Americans persist in using stupid AWG that no-one else in the
world uses except to entertain you ?

Have you never heard of mm^2 ?

Graham

You paint with a wide brush. I'd be perfectly content to use metric, and
end up using both systems regularly but it's not as if it's up to me
what the whole country uses.


The USA is 'supposed' to be metricated. hy you choose to be so backward never
fails to amaze me. Any given wire gauge covers a wide range of
cross-sectional areas. At least you know what you're getting with mm2.

Graham


--
due to the hugely increased level of spam please make the obvious adjustment
to my email address


What's the matter, challenging for you?

 

[Sjouke Burry]

Jamie wrote:

Eeyore wrote:

Ron wrote:


of course as any fool knows it should be either SWG or thousanths of an
inch

LOL ! Give me a thou over a 'mil' anyday. Only the Americans could confuse a
metric prefix with an old unit.

Not to mention that if you use the word 'mil' in the UK it means a millimetre.

The way I see it, you're not able to comprehend the vast complexity of
the intellectually enhanced American!

Did that just about sum it up?



I will try to remove the bad taste with a swig of

Coffee/rooibos..............
Nah, that failed.

 

[Jamie]

Eeyore wrote:

bg wrote:


Metric is for people that have to count on their fingers !


What an absurd comment. Do you have 12 fingers so you can count in inches to the
foot ?
Yes, we use the binary way!

 

[Jamie]

Eeyore wrote:

Ron wrote:


of course as any fool knows it should be either SWG or thousanths of an
inch


LOL ! Give me a thou over a 'mil' anyday. Only the Americans could confuse a
metric prefix with an old unit.

Not to mention that if you use the word 'mil' in the UK it means a millimetre.

The way I see it, you're not able to comprehend the vast complexity of

the intellectually enhanced American!

Did that just about sum it up?

 

[John Fields]

On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 03:17:14 +0000, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@notcoldmail.com> wrote:

James Sweet wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
DaveC wrote:
The coil in an industrial electromagnetic clutch (connecting the
flywheel to the drive mechanism) has gone open-circuit. So it is being
rewound by a motor rewind shop.

I was just informed that the original wire was about 12 ga. (maybe
slightly larger; original was metric) but it was rewound using 10 ga.

Why do Americans persist in using stupid AWG that no-one else in the
world uses except to entertain you ?

Have you never heard of mm^2 ?

Graham

You paint with a wide brush. I'd be perfectly content to use metric, and
end up using both systems regularly but it's not as if it's up to me
what the whole country uses.

The USA is 'supposed' to be metricated.

---
No, it isn't.

In ordinary life we we still buy gasoline and milk by the gallon, meat
by the pound, we measure distance in miles, length in yards, feet and
inches, and stupidity in grahams.

In science, out of the goodness of our hearts, we use the metric system
just to keep goons like you from having to convert and make your
inevitable mistakes.
---

hy you choose to be so backward never
fails to amaze me.

---
Choosing to use a system we're comfortable with and which works for us
isn't backward, it's just convenient.

After all, we got to the moon and back, the first time with feet and
inches.

And you?

Expanding on "backward", however, it's taken you lot some 350 years
after we came up with the United States of America to finally admit that
your system was fucked; the proof being in your recent adoption of a
copycat version with the "United States of Europe", with the UK hedging
its bets by not converting to the Euro. How's that for backward?
---

Any given wire gauge covers a wide range of
cross-sectional areas. At least you know what you're getting with mm2.

---
No, dumbass, any given wire gauge is specified as having a fixed
diameter and, therefore a fixed cross-sectional area.

Whether there are several Metric sizes between AWG sizes is really
immaterial in that probably 99.999% of all the applications requiring
copper wire can be met using AWG. Read Spehro's post for a clue.

JF

 

[John Fields]

On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 04:02:30 +0000, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@notcoldmail.com> wrote:

John Fields wrote:

Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@removethishotmail.com> wrote:
DaveC wrote:

The coil in an industrial electromagnetic clutch (connecting the flywheel to
the drive mechanism) has gone open-circuit. So it is being rewound by a motor
rewind shop.

I was just informed that the original wire was about 12 ga. (maybe slightly
larger; original was metric) but it was rewound using 10 ga.

Why do Americans persist in using stupid AWG that no-one else in the
world uses except to entertain you ?

---
Because we like to be entertained by watching loons like you go bonkers
when we force you to step outside of your wretched little comfort zones?

I didn't go bonkers at all. I just picked an easy target to stir you up.

---
And why would you want to do that? Just to make trouble, no doubt.

I noticed that while you were gone the atmosphere around here stunk a
lot less like shit than usual.

Now you're back and the place is starting to stink again. Too bad...
---

America: "Hello, Europe, we'd like to buy 50,000 pounds of #10 AWG OFHC
double formvar magnet wire.

Europe: But... but all we have is metric sizes, in kilograms, boo hoo.

We can convert too, you know. Thankfully only an issue for you lot.

---
Are Levi's sold over there with waist sizes in centimeters or do you
have to convert 112 cm to find what you can wear?
---

Have you never heard of mm^2 ?

---
Sure we have.

So what?

Why don't you use it ?

---
Because it doesn't suit us in everyday life?

JF

 

[Ron]

Jamie wrote:

The way I see it, you're not able to comprehend the vast complexity of
the intellectually enhanced American!

Did that just about sum it up?

An Oxymoron shirley?



Dives for cover
Ron (Merry Christmas)