Use different size wire in electro clutch?

D

DaveC

Guest
The coil in an industrial electromagnetic clutch (connecting the flywheel to
the drive mechanism) has gone open-circuit. So it is being rewound by a motor
rewind shop.

I was just informed that the original wire was about 12 ga. (maybe slightly
larger; original was metric) but it was rewound using 10 ga.

Should I be worried about this change in wire size? Will this change the
magnet's strength significantly? The current draw?

Here's the original schematic:

<http://i47.tinypic.com/2lkpt94.jpg>

"F" is the clutch coil. The machine isn't currently wired to mains so the
clutch's exact operating voltage isn't known. The transformer voltage that
supplies the rectifier bridge seems to be 32 v (per label on the schematic).
Here's photos of the clutch. (The coil is imbedded in a groove in the metal
cylinder.) ::

<http://i48.tinypic.com/2hnyqll.jpg>

<http://i46.tinypic.com/2nlg5de.jpg>

<http://i49.tinypic.com/24pjaqu.jpg>

<http://i45.tinypic.com/29bdduw.jpg>

<http://i47.tinypic.com/291c7cw.jpg>

Will this change in wire size cause me troubles?

Thanks,
Dave
 
DaveC wrote:
The coil in an industrial electromagnetic clutch (connecting the flywheel to
the drive mechanism) has gone open-circuit. So it is being rewound by a motor
rewind shop.

I was just informed that the original wire was about 12 ga. (maybe slightly
larger; original was metric) but it was rewound using 10 ga.
Click to expand...
Why do Americans persist in using stupid AWG that no-one else in the
world uses except to entertain you ?

Have you never heard of mm^2 ?

Graham
 
DaveC wrote:
The coil in an industrial electromagnetic clutch (connecting the flywheel to
the drive mechanism) has gone open-circuit. So it is being rewound by a motor
rewind shop.

I was just informed that the original wire was about 12 ga. (maybe slightly
larger; original was metric) but it was rewound using 10 ga.

Should I be worried about this change in wire size? Will this change the
magnet's strength significantly?
Click to expand...
It'll be roughly the same if the volume of conductor in the winding is
the same.

The current draw?
Click to expand...
Probably higher. Larger gauge wire (lower resistance), fewer turns (if
the winding volume is a limiting factor). Its the ampere turns that
affect the strength.


Here's the original schematic:

http://i47.tinypic.com/2lkpt94.jpg
Click to expand...
I see taps on the trnsformer secondary. It might be possible to
compensate for the winding change by selecting a lower voltage tap. If
that doesn't interfere with the other relay(?) sharing the tap.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
What color is a chameleon looking in a mirror?
 
"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@removethishotmail.com> wrote in
message news:016dce67$0$14148$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
DaveC wrote:
The coil in an industrial electromagnetic clutch (connecting the
flywheel to the drive mechanism) has gone open-circuit. So it is
being rewound by a motor rewind shop.

I was just informed that the original wire was about 12 ga. (maybe
slightly larger; original was metric) but it was rewound using 10 ga.

Why do Americans persist in using stupid AWG that no-one else in the
world uses except to entertain you ?

Have you never heard of mm^2 ?

Graham
Click to expand...
Forget how to convert Graham?

<http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/awg-wire-gauge-d_731.html>

I don't think 10 awg will be a problem, as long as the # of turns is the
same. Measure the current to be sure.

Cheers
 
On Dec 16, 10:01 pm, "Martin Riddle" <martin_...@verizon.net> wrote:
"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@removethishotmail.com> wrote in
messagenews:016dce67$0$14148$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...

DaveC wrote:
The coil in an industrial electromagnetic clutch (connecting the
flywheel to the drive mechanism) has gone open-circuit. So it is
being rewound by a motor rewind shop.

I was just informed that the original wire was about 12 ga. (maybe
slightly larger; original was metric) but it was rewound using 10 ga.

Why do Americans persist in using stupid AWG that no-one else in the
world uses except to entertain you ?

Have you never heard of mm^2 ?

Graham

Forget how to convert Graham?

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/awg-wire-gauge-d_731.html

I don't think 10 awg will be a problem, as long as the # of turns is the
same. Measure the current to be sure.

Cheers
Click to expand...
if the wire is a little thicker, the current might be a little higher
and the magnetic strength would be a little higher.

looks like you could change the xformer tap to the 30v location if
needed. or add a small resistor in series.

Mark
 
Eeyore wrote:
DaveC wrote:
The coil in an industrial electromagnetic clutch (connecting the
flywheel to the drive mechanism) has gone open-circuit. So it is being
rewound by a motor rewind shop.

I was just informed that the original wire was about 12 ga. (maybe
slightly larger; original was metric) but it was rewound using 10 ga.

Why do Americans persist in using stupid AWG that no-one else in the
world uses except to entertain you ?

Have you never heard of mm^2 ?

Graham
Click to expand...

You paint with a wide brush. I'd be perfectly content to use metric, and
end up using both systems regularly but it's not as if it's up to me
what the whole country uses.
 
Eeyore wrote:
DaveC wrote:
The coil in an industrial electromagnetic clutch (connecting the flywheel to
the drive mechanism) has gone open-circuit. So it is being rewound by a motor
rewind shop.

I was just informed that the original wire was about 12 ga. (maybe slightly
larger; original was metric) but it was rewound using 10 ga.

Why do Americans persist in using stupid AWG that no-one else in the
world uses except to entertain you ?

Have you never heard of mm^2 ?
Click to expand...

We don't need to dumb things down to a level for idiots to be able to
do the math.


--
Offworld checks no longer accepted!
 
Martin Riddle wrote:
"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@removethishotmail.com> wrote
DaveC wrote:
The coil in an industrial electromagnetic clutch (connecting the
flywheel to the drive mechanism) has gone open-circuit. So it is
being rewound by a motor rewind shop.

I was just informed that the original wire was about 12 ga. (maybe
slightly larger; original was metric) but it was rewound using 10 ga.
Why do Americans persist in using stupid AWG that no-one else in the
world uses except to entertain you ?

Have you never heard of mm^2 ?

Graham

Forget how to convert Graham?

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/awg-wire-gauge-d_731.html

I don't think 10 awg will be a problem, as long as the # of turns is the
same. Measure the current to be sure.
Click to expand...
Oh I can convert. Trouble is, IME a single gauge can cover a range of
CSAs. Plus it's pointlessly and wastefully time consuming.

Graham
 
On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 02:27:19 +0000, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@removethishotmail.com> wrote:

DaveC wrote:
The coil in an industrial electromagnetic clutch (connecting the flywheel to
the drive mechanism) has gone open-circuit. So it is being rewound by a motor
rewind shop.

I was just informed that the original wire was about 12 ga. (maybe slightly
larger; original was metric) but it was rewound using 10 ga.

Why do Americans persist in using stupid AWG that no-one else in the
world uses except to entertain you ?
Click to expand...
Mostly inertia, of course. On the other hand, the AWG scale is right
simple to use to swag the nominal wire resistance, given that it's a log
scale and starting with AWG 10 = 1 ohm/1000 feet (yeah, "feet" but ...).

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA
 
On Dec 16, 9:27 pm, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@removethishotmail.com> wrote:
DaveC wrote:
The coil in an industrial electromagnetic clutch (connecting the flywheel to
the drive mechanism) has gone open-circuit. So it is being rewound by a motor
rewind shop.

I was just informed that the original wire was about 12 ga. (maybe slightly
larger; original was metric) but it was rewound using 10 ga.

Why do Americans persist in using stupid AWG that no-one else in the
world uses except to entertain you ?

Have you never heard of mm^2 ?

Graham
Click to expand...
Now that is a helpful comment. Maybe because we are??? Why are there
three distinct classes of units in physics? (eventhough SI units are
somewhat universal). Cross sectional area and diameter are basic
parameters that engineers understand and taught to convert between any
system of units. Difference between an engineer and an hack? I like
blue, you may like purple. Our rocket went to the moon, you don't
have one...Sheese, don't ya have enough nits to pick?
-John
 
Eeyore wrote in message <016dce67$0$14148$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>...
DaveC wrote:
The coil in an industrial electromagnetic clutch (connecting the flywheel
to
the drive mechanism) has gone open-circuit. So it is being rewound by a
motor
rewind shop.

I was just informed that the original wire was about 12 ga. (maybe
slightly
larger; original was metric) but it was rewound using 10 ga.

Why do Americans persist in using stupid AWG that no-one else in the
world uses except to entertain you ?

Have you never heard of mm^2 ?

Graham
Click to expand...
Metric is for people that have to count on their fingers !
 
bg wrote:
Eeyore wrote in message <016dce67$0$14148$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>...
DaveC wrote:
The coil in an industrial electromagnetic clutch (connecting the flywheel
to
the drive mechanism) has gone open-circuit. So it is being rewound by a
motor
rewind shop.

I was just informed that the original wire was about 12 ga. (maybe
slightly
larger; original was metric) but it was rewound using 10 ga.
Why do Americans persist in using stupid AWG that no-one else in the
world uses except to entertain you ?

Have you never heard of mm^2 ?

Graham

Metric is for people that have to count on their fingers !


of course as any fool knows it should be either SWG or thousanths of an
Click to expand...
inch ;)
 
On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:06:47 -0700, "bg" <bg@nospam.com> wrote:

Eeyore wrote in message <016dce67$0$14148$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>...
DaveC wrote:
The coil in an industrial electromagnetic clutch (connecting the flywheel
to
the drive mechanism) has gone open-circuit. So it is being rewound by a
motor
rewind shop.

I was just informed that the original wire was about 12 ga. (maybe
slightly
larger; original was metric) but it was rewound using 10 ga.

Why do Americans persist in using stupid AWG that no-one else in the
world uses except to entertain you ?

Have you never heard of mm^2 ?

Graham

Metric is for people that have to count on their fingers !
Click to expand...
---
I prefer base 21.

JF
 
On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 02:27:19 +0000, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@removethishotmail.com> wrote:

DaveC wrote:
The coil in an industrial electromagnetic clutch (connecting the flywheel to
the drive mechanism) has gone open-circuit. So it is being rewound by a motor
rewind shop.

I was just informed that the original wire was about 12 ga. (maybe slightly
larger; original was metric) but it was rewound using 10 ga.

Why do Americans persist in using stupid AWG that no-one else in the
world uses except to entertain you ?
Click to expand...
---
Because we like to be entertained by watching loons like you go bonkers
when we force you to step outside of your wretched little comfort zones?

America: "Hello, Europe, we'd like to buy 50,000 pounds of #10 AWG OFHC
double formvar magnet wire.

Europe: But... but all we have is metric sizes, in kilograms, boo hoo.
---

Have you never heard of mm^2 ?
Click to expand...
---
Sure we have.

So what?

JF
 
John Fields wrote:
On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:06:47 -0700, "bg" <bg@nospam.com> wrote:

Metric is for people that have to count on their fingers !

I prefer base 21.
Click to expand...

Only because 42 is the second number in that base. :)


--
Offworld checks no longer accepted!
 
James Sweet wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
DaveC wrote:
The coil in an industrial electromagnetic clutch (connecting the
flywheel to the drive mechanism) has gone open-circuit. So it is being
rewound by a motor rewind shop.

I was just informed that the original wire was about 12 ga. (maybe
slightly larger; original was metric) but it was rewound using 10 ga.
Why do Americans persist in using stupid AWG that no-one else in the
world uses except to entertain you ?

Have you never heard of mm^2 ?

Graham


You paint with a wide brush. I'd be perfectly content to use metric, and
end up using both systems regularly but it's not as if it's up to me
what the whole country uses.
And you dont care about the rest of the world?
Click to expand...
If you want a clear answer ask a clear question.
Dont hide behind obscure local encodings.
 
On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 07:55:03 -0800 (PST), jjh <jjhudak@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Dec 16, 9:27 pm, Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@removethishotmail.com> wrote:
DaveC wrote:
The coil in an industrial electromagnetic clutch (connecting the flywheel to
the drive mechanism) has gone open-circuit. So it is being rewound by a motor
rewind shop.

I was just informed that the original wire was about 12 ga. (maybe slightly
larger; original was metric) but it was rewound using 10 ga.

Why do Americans persist in using stupid AWG that no-one else in the
world uses except to entertain you ?

Have you never heard of mm^2 ?

Graham

Now that is a helpful comment. Maybe because we are??? Why are there
three distinct classes of units in physics? (eventhough SI units are
somewhat universal). Cross sectional area and diameter are basic
parameters that engineers understand and taught to convert between any
system of units. Difference between an engineer and an hack? I like
blue, you may like purple. Our rocket went to the moon, you don't
have one...Sheese, don't ya have enough nits to pick?
Click to expand...
Forget the dumb donkey. He's just another jealous Europeon.
 
On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 16:34:42 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

John Fields wrote:

On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:06:47 -0700, "bg" <bg@nospam.com> wrote:

Metric is for people that have to count on their fingers !

I prefer base 21.
Click to expand...
The subject excites you?

Only because 42 is the second number in that base. :)
Click to expand...
Everyone knows that 42 is in base 13. ;-)
 
On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 16:34:42 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

John Fields wrote:

On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:06:47 -0700, "bg" <bg@nospam.com> wrote:

Metric is for people that have to count on their fingers !

I prefer base 21.


Only because 42 is the second number in that base. :)
Click to expand...
---
Nope, it's because I can use all my "digits" to count with. ;)

JF
 
That's enough arguing already! Lets compromise and use the FFF units system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FFF_system

--
Paul Hovnanian paul@hovnanian.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Have gnu, will travel.
 
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