Toshiba TV29C90 problem; Image fades to black...

[John Navas]

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 23:56:06 -0800, Pat Cheney <pcheney@ymail.com> wrote
in <sel5l.11149$x%.5940@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com>:

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 23:27:52 -0800, John Navas wrote:

Not correct. Read the standard definition.

I'm confused by all the cable pin out information so I won't respond
directly but will read and reread the replies to see if I understand.

All I know is that it "seemed" to me that the Motorola cabling worked on
both the Motorola and Blackberry equipment (at least that has been my
experience).

The Motorola cable is a standard cable, not a special Motorola cable.
The cable that doesn't work is a non-standard cable, no matter what it's
called.

So, I admit, I might be wrong and this is getting OT anyway but my
"solution" seemed to work (which was to replace all my Blackberry cabling
with Motorola cabling).

"Work" can be a poor criterion. "Right" is better. The Motorola cables
are "right" because they are standard, and because Crackberry takes a
standard cable. If it didn't, then they wouldn't be right.

As in the case of cameras, you need to better inform yourself if you're
not going to rely on what the manufacturer gives you.

--
Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
John

 

[John Navas]

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 23:59:23 -0800, Pat Cheney <pcheney@ymail.com> wrote
in <yhl5l.11150$x%.9273@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com>:

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 23:30:29 -0800, John Navas wrote:

Any _standard_ cable will do.

I admit I don't understand the cabling at all.

All I ask is, given the information above, is whether the Motorola cables
are more standard then than the Blackberry cables?

Motorola cables are standard. If the Crackberry cables don't work with
Motorola phones, then they aren't standard.

Is that why the Motorola cabling works with the Blackberry but the
Blackberry cabling doesn't work with Motorola equipment?

Yes.

--
Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
John

 

[Pat Cheney]

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 12:16:10 -0500, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

While that may be the problem, the solution, for those of us with both
Blackberry and Motorola equipment, is to purchase Motorola cables and
return the new Blackberry equipment in its place.

So YOUR answer is to be a thief?

Well, now I feed bad. At first, until John Navas corrected me, I thought
the problem was Motorola's fault.

In all my tests, the Motorola cables, power supplies, and auto adapters
worked with the Blackberry but the Blackberry cables, power supplies, and
auto adapters did not work with the Motorola phone.

Errantly, after much discussion with myself, (I'm an INFJ) I laid blame
squarely on the Motorola engineers. Since it was their fault, I returned
perfectly new equipment to them, in the form of brand new Blackberry
equipment.

That way, I had a set of cables, power supplies, and auto adapters that
worked with all my electronic devices, whether they be card readers, ear
phones, cell phones, cameras, or GPS navigation units.

Now I feel bad that I gave actually bad cables to Motorola instead of the
other way around. All the equipment was new so I didn't benefit from it, so
I don't consider it stealing. I consider it making my point known.

It turns out, from you and John Navas, that I misdirected my ire, something
we INFJs tend to do. I no longer recommend everyone send Blackberry
equipment back to Motorla as a form of silent protest!

Thank you for setting me straight!

 

[Pat Cheney]

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 09:51:02 -0800, John Navas wrote:

As in the case of cameras, you need to better inform yourself if you're
not going to rely on what the manufacturer gives you.

Indeed. I learned a LOT from this nntp thread!

1. I learned to decode the manufacturer specifications for camera ports
(e.g., a USB/AV port isn't a mini-usb port)

2. I learned why my Motorola cables work with Blackberry but not vice versa
(e.g., the Motorla cable follows the standard; Blackberry does not)

3. I learned WHY Casio put a proprietary USB port on the EXILIM camera
(e.g., it's cheaper and takes less space than separate AV & USB does)

4. I learned NOT to remove the flash card from the camera indiscriminately
(e.g., that's probably how I "corrupted" the flash card)

5. I learned that dpreview & steve's digicam don't list connector format
(e.g., they don't say anything you can't get on Casio's own web site)

6. I even learned why there is a USB-A and USB-B on my hard disk
(e.g., John Navas says it's so we don't mix up analog & digital signals)

7. I learned I was blaming the wrong manufacturer for the Blackberry fiasco
(e.g., I sent Blackberry equipment to Motorola; I should have switched)

8. I learned not everyone wants a single cable to work with all electronics
(this, for the life of me, is unfathomable, but it is apprently true)

9. I'm even learning how to fix a corrupted Sandisk flash card
(e.g., mine is RAW and won't format in Windows no matter what I do)

10. I learned that there are some really nice helpful people on the usenet
(thanks to John Navas, SMS, Marco Tedaldi, Tony Cooper, Jurgen Exner,
etc.)

 

[nospam]

In article <goqcl4p60l48vv7hd56g875754e28c0snq@4ax.com>, John Navas
<spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> wrote:

All I ask is, given the information above, is whether the Motorola cables
are more standard then than the Blackberry cables?

Motorola cables are standard. If the Crackberry cables don't work with
Motorola phones, then they aren't standard.

how is it that you consider calling a camera 'p&s' to be pejorative and
offensive, yet you refer to a blackberry as a 'crackberry', a term
which is arguably even more so ?

 

[John Navas]

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 12:07:06 -0800, Pat Cheney <pcheney@ymail.com> wrote
in <pTv5l.6888$8_3.4811@flpi147.ffdc.sbc.com>:

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 09:51:02 -0800, John Navas wrote:

As in the case of cameras, you need to better inform yourself if you're
not going to rely on what the manufacturer gives you.

Indeed. I learned a LOT from this nntp thread!

1. I learned to decode the manufacturer specifications for camera ports
(e.g., a USB/AV port isn't a mini-usb port)

2. I learned why my Motorola cables work with Blackberry but not vice versa
(e.g., the Motorla cable follows the standard; Blackberry does not)

3. I learned WHY Casio put a proprietary USB port on the EXILIM camera
(e.g., it's cheaper and takes less space than separate AV & USB does)

4. I learned NOT to remove the flash card from the camera indiscriminately
(e.g., that's probably how I "corrupted" the flash card)

5. I learned that dpreview & steve's digicam don't list connector format
(e.g., they don't say anything you can't get on Casio's own web site)

6. I even learned why there is a USB-A and USB-B on my hard disk
(e.g., John Navas says it's so we don't mix up analog & digital signals)

These are cable connectors, and they are different so average consumers
don't inadvertently create a non-working loop.

7. I learned I was blaming the wrong manufacturer for the Blackberry fiasco
(e.g., I sent Blackberry equipment to Motorola; I should have switched)

8. I learned not everyone wants a single cable to work with all electronics
(this, for the life of me, is unfathomable, but it is apprently true)

Many of us either don't care or don't use cables or both.

9. I'm even learning how to fix a corrupted Sandisk flash card
(e.g., mine is RAW and won't format in Windows no matter what I do)

10. I learned that there are some really nice helpful people on the usenet
(thanks to John Navas, SMS, Marco Tedaldi, Tony Cooper, Jurgen Exner,
etc.)

Thank you. Pretty good summary.

--
Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
John

 

[John Navas]

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 15:26:31 -0500, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote
in <271220081526315966%nospam@nospam.invalid>:

In article <goqcl4p60l48vv7hd56g875754e28c0snq@4ax.com>, John Navas
spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> wrote:

All I ask is, given the information above, is whether the Motorola cables
are more standard then than the Blackberry cables?

Motorola cables are standard. If the Crackberry cables don't work with
Motorola phones, then they aren't standard.

how is it that you consider calling a camera 'p&s' to be pejorative and
offensive, yet you refer to a blackberry as a 'crackberry', a term
which is arguably even more so ?

That, sir, was only in fun. I have great respect for the Blackberry.
I have a few friends addicted to them who use that term themselves, and
I've picked it from them. I didn't realize it was a sensitive issue for
you. My apologies.

--
Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
John

 

[Franc Zabkar]

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 22:31:37 -0800, John Navas
<spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 12:56:05 +1100, Franc Zabkar
fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in
hk2bl41hqf2cqiovn2vh1mashrn3dq9bc6@4ax.com>:

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 11:14:49 +1100, Franc Zabkar
fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> put finger to keyboard and composed:

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 12:33:36 -0800, Pat Cheney <pcheney@ymail.com> put
finger to keyboard and composed:

One problem I've found with cellphones is Motorola. For some reason,
Motorola USB is "special" USB.

I've found that Motorola chargers work fine with all other phones but
Motorola phones don't work well with the other chargers.

The difference could be just one resistor:
http://pinouts.ru/CellularPhones-A-N/razrv3_charger_pinout.shtml

I also believe that some devices will look for the presence of pullup
or pull-down resistors on the Data+ and/or Data- signal pins. In this
way the device knows when it is connected to a USB host, in which case
it will limit its current draw to 500mA. Otherwise it thinks it is
connected to a fast charger, and then it draws whatever current it
wants.

People, people, enough with the mystery and speculation -- this is part
of the USB standard! It's called ID, and is clearly defined. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_serial_bus#USB_cables

I prefer this more informative article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_On-The-Go

"OTG" is an extension to the USB standard that enables a device to
function either as a host or as a peripheral.

"A key usage case is a mobile phone that can be a Default Host to a
Mass Storage memory stick or a Default Peripheral to a PC."

"The OTG cable has a micro-A plug on one side, and a micro-B plug on
the other (it cannot have two plugs of the same type). OTG adds a
fifth pin to the standard USB connector, called the ID-pin; the
micro-A plug has the ID pin grounded, while the ID in the micro-B plug
is floating. The device that has a micro-A plugged in becomes an OTG
A-device, and the one that has micro-B plugged becomes a B-device (see
above). The type of the plug inserted is detected by the state of the
pin ID."

"USB OTG defines two roles of devices: OTG A-device and OTG B-device.
This terminology defines which side supplies power to the link, and
which is initially the host. The OTG A-device is a power supplier, and
an OTG B-device is a power consumer. The default link configuration is
that A-device act as USB Host and B-device is a USB Device. The host
and device modes may be exchanged later by using HNP (Host Negotiation
Protocol)."

So in order to connect a phone to a PC host, the phone must power up
as a power consumer, and as a peripheral. This in turn means that the
ID pin must be floating. Similary, if the phone is connected to a
charger, then the ID pin must be floating also. If it were grounded,
then the phone would be trying to put power on the cable.

It seems to me that it would be a very straightforward matter to
determine the actual connectivity of a Blackberry or Motorola mini-USB
cables. Just break out a $10 DMM, clamp the ends of the cable in a
vice, extend the DMM probes with sewing needles taped to the ends, and
then measure the resistances between the pins. That should put any
unsubstantiated assertions quickly to bed.

The pinouts.ru URL which I alluded to earlier clearly demonstrates
that Motorola uses some kind of proprietary passive signalling method
at the charger end of the cable. It does not suggest, and nor did I
suggest, that the actual cable is any different than a standard cable.
I'm assuming that the original charging cable has 5 pins at both ends.
If it has 4, then that creates a problem, unless the required resistor
is embedded in the cable, which would then make the cable
non-standard.

Did I say I was confused?


- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

 

[John Navas]

On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 09:22:08 +1100, Franc Zabkar
<fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in
<4p8dl4heg09o2j31pkkd5af7e380pd2q76@4ax.com>:

The pinouts.ru URL which I alluded to earlier clearly demonstrates
that Motorola uses some kind of proprietary passive signalling method
at the charger end of the cable. It does not suggest, and nor did I
suggest, that the actual cable is any different than a standard cable.
I'm assuming that the original charging cable has 5 pins at both ends.
If it has 4, then that creates a problem, unless the required resistor
is embedded in the cable, which would then make the cable
non-standard.

Charging only requires either (a) a *standard* (not proprietary)
5-connection Mini-USB cable or (b) a Motorola USB driver. The Motorola
charger simply conforms to the standard.

--
Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
John

 

[SMS]

Pat Cheney wrote:

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 09:51:02 -0800, John Navas wrote:

As in the case of cameras, you need to better inform yourself if you're
not going to rely on what the manufacturer gives you.

Indeed. I learned a LOT from this nntp thread!

1. I learned to decode the manufacturer specifications for camera ports
(e.g., a USB/AV port isn't a mini-usb port)

2. I learned why my Motorola cables work with Blackberry but not vice versa
(e.g., the Motorla cable follows the standard; Blackberry does not)

Wrong, it's the opposite. Motorola doesn't follow the standard.

3. I learned WHY Casio put a proprietary USB port on the EXILIM camera
(e.g., it's cheaper and takes less space than separate AV & USB does)

4. I learned NOT to remove the flash card from the camera indiscriminately
(e.g., that's probably how I "corrupted" the flash card)

5. I learned that dpreview & steve's digicam don't list connector format
(e.g., they don't say anything you can't get on Casio's own web site)

They say less actually.

6. I even learned why there is a USB-A and USB-B on my hard disk
(e.g., John Navas says it's so we don't mix up analog & digital signals)

If he really said that, he's wrong, but I don't think he said that.

7. I learned I was blaming the wrong manufacturer for the Blackberry fiasco
(e.g., I sent Blackberry equipment to Motorola; I should have switched)

8. I learned not everyone wants a single cable to work with all electronics
(this, for the life of me, is unfathomable, but it is apprently true)

I think that most people would prefer it, but they aren't too upset when
it isn't the case. I know that in China the government has mandated that
USB connectors be used for charge connectors for low-current devices,
but AFAIK there is no standard they've mandated for AV connectors. Maybe
we should encourage the Chinese government to mandate standards for this
kind of stuff since we are unable to do it.

 

[John Navas]

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 14:50:21 -0800, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote in <1iy5l.11859$be.3261@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com>:

Whatever you do, ignore posts by "SMS" -- he pontificates about things
he knows nothing about, and tries to put down people that expose him for
what he is.

--
Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
John

 

[Franc Zabkar]

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 14:29:27 -0800, John Navas
<spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:

On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 09:22:08 +1100, Franc Zabkar
fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in
4p8dl4heg09o2j31pkkd5af7e380pd2q76@4ax.com>:

The pinouts.ru URL which I alluded to earlier clearly demonstrates
that Motorola uses some kind of proprietary passive signalling method
at the charger end of the cable. It does not suggest, and nor did I
suggest, that the actual cable is any different than a standard cable.
I'm assuming that the original charging cable has 5 pins at both ends.
If it has 4, then that creates a problem, unless the required resistor
is embedded in the cable, which would then make the cable
non-standard.

Charging only requires either (a) a *standard* (not proprietary)
5-connection Mini-USB cable or (b) a Motorola USB driver. The Motorola
charger simply conforms to the standard.

Does the USB standard specify how a charger is to behave? What does it
have to say about the fact that Motorola chargers short the Data+ and
Data- pins (according to pinouts.ru)?

Does the required "standard" cable, when connected to a charger, need
to have 5 pins at both ends?

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

 

[John Navas]

On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 10:03:03 +1100, Franc Zabkar
<fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in
<6ocdl45liem4tcdbb18uet88mv3knvt8p4@4ax.com>:

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 14:29:27 -0800, John Navas
spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:

On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 09:22:08 +1100, Franc Zabkar
fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in
4p8dl4heg09o2j31pkkd5af7e380pd2q76@4ax.com>:

The pinouts.ru URL which I alluded to earlier clearly demonstrates
that Motorola uses some kind of proprietary passive signalling method
at the charger end of the cable. It does not suggest, and nor did I
suggest, that the actual cable is any different than a standard cable.
I'm assuming that the original charging cable has 5 pins at both ends.
If it has 4, then that creates a problem, unless the required resistor
is embedded in the cable, which would then make the cable
non-standard.

Charging only requires either (a) a *standard* (not proprietary)
5-connection Mini-USB cable or (b) a Motorola USB driver. The Motorola
charger simply conforms to the standard.

Does the USB standard specify how a charger is to behave? What does it
have to say about the fact that Motorola chargers short the Data+ and
Data- pins (according to pinouts.ru)?

Does the required "standard" cable, when connected to a charger, need
to have 5 pins at both ends?

Whatever you say, Franc. [sigh]

--
Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
John

 

[Franc Zabkar]

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 15:04:33 -0800, John Navas
<spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:

On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 10:03:03 +1100, Franc Zabkar
fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in
6ocdl45liem4tcdbb18uet88mv3knvt8p4@4ax.com>:

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 14:29:27 -0800, John Navas
spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:

On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 09:22:08 +1100, Franc Zabkar
fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in
4p8dl4heg09o2j31pkkd5af7e380pd2q76@4ax.com>:

The pinouts.ru URL which I alluded to earlier clearly demonstrates
that Motorola uses some kind of proprietary passive signalling method
at the charger end of the cable. It does not suggest, and nor did I
suggest, that the actual cable is any different than a standard cable.
I'm assuming that the original charging cable has 5 pins at both ends.
If it has 4, then that creates a problem, unless the required resistor
is embedded in the cable, which would then make the cable
non-standard.

Charging only requires either (a) a *standard* (not proprietary)
5-connection Mini-USB cable or (b) a Motorola USB driver. The Motorola
charger simply conforms to the standard.

Does the USB standard specify how a charger is to behave? What does it
have to say about the fact that Motorola chargers short the Data+ and
Data- pins (according to pinouts.ru)?

Does the required "standard" cable, when connected to a charger, need
to have 5 pins at both ends?

Whatever you say, Franc. [sigh]

What is that supposed to mean? Is it so hard for you to quantify what
*you* mean by "standard cable"? I have never seen a Blackberry or
Motorola mini-USB cable. Have you? What's on either end? Four pins or
five pins? Is the ID pin grounded or floating? At which end?

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

 

[Franc Zabkar]

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 15:03:00 -0800, John Navas
<spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 14:50:21 -0800, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com
wrote in <1iy5l.11859$be.3261@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com>:

[HUGE snip]

Whatever you do, ignore posts by "SMS" -- he pontificates about things
he knows nothing about, and tries to put down people that expose him for
what he is.

Pontification?

Pot, kettle, black.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

 

[John Navas]

On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 10:14:36 +1100, Franc Zabkar
<fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in
<0mddl4hhso85nknt7nckk3lhudfvgf8341@4ax.com>:

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 15:03:00 -0800, John Navas
spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 14:50:21 -0800, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com
wrote in <1iy5l.11859$be.3261@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com>:

[HUGE snip]

Whatever you do, ignore posts by "SMS" -- he pontificates about things
he knows nothing about, and tries to put down people that expose him for
what he is.

Pontification?

Pot, kettle, black.

- Franc Zabkar

I see you haven't changed, Franc. Pity.

--
Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
John

 

[SMS]

Franc Zabkar wrote:

What is that supposed to mean? Is it so hard for you to quantify what
*you* mean by "standard cable"? I have never seen a Blackberry or
Motorola mini-USB cable. Have you? What's on either end? Four pins or
five pins? Is the ID pin grounded or floating? At which end?

The connector is standard, but the Motorola phone recognizes a Motorola
charger by circuitry in the charger that uses the fifth pin as a sense
pin. Hence a 5 pin mini-USB cable connected to the phone, with only +5V
and GND won't charge the phone because the phone will know that it isn't
connected to a Motorola charger (or an after-market charger with the
same circuitry). The phone will display "Unauthorized Charger."

 

[Franc Zabkar]

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 15:50:18 -0800, John Navas
<spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:

On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 10:14:36 +1100, Franc Zabkar
fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in
0mddl4hhso85nknt7nckk3lhudfvgf8341@4ax.com>:

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 15:03:00 -0800, John Navas
spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 14:50:21 -0800, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com
wrote in <1iy5l.11859$be.3261@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com>:

[HUGE snip]

Whatever you do, ignore posts by "SMS" -- he pontificates about things
he knows nothing about, and tries to put down people that expose him for
what he is.

Pontification?

Pot, kettle, black.

- Franc Zabkar

I see you haven't changed, Franc. Pity.

No, John, it is you who is still your old arrogant self. I have openly
confessed my ignorance. All I'm asking is that you provide more
detail, if you have any. None of the questions I've asked are
difficult, and I haven't asked them to score points. Neither am I
prepared to stroke your ego.

In the past we've had discussions in sci.electronics repair in regard
to how USB chargers work, but IIRC we weren't able to resolve
anything. I'm still ready and willing to learn, but I won't accept
your unsubstantiated assertions. I need independently verifiable
*facts*. So how many pins does a Blackberry or Motorola mini-USB cable
have at either end? Is the ID pin grounded or floating? At which end?

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

 

[Franc Zabkar]

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 16:00:52 -0800, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
put finger to keyboard and composed:

Franc Zabkar wrote:

What is that supposed to mean? Is it so hard for you to quantify what
*you* mean by "standard cable"? I have never seen a Blackberry or
Motorola mini-USB cable. Have you? What's on either end? Four pins or
five pins? Is the ID pin grounded or floating? At which end?

The connector is standard, but the Motorola phone recognizes a Motorola
charger by circuitry in the charger that uses the fifth pin as a sense
pin. Hence a 5 pin mini-USB cable connected to the phone, with only +5V
and GND won't charge the phone because the phone will know that it isn't
connected to a Motorola charger (or an after-market charger with the
same circuitry). The phone will display "Unauthorized Charger."

Ah, so the Motorola mini-USB cable has 5 pins at both ends?

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

 

[John Navas]

On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 11:05:30 +1100, Franc Zabkar
<fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in
<4kgdl4l11fgf1f9m2v83mdmji1qktbrmfg@4ax.com>:

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 16:00:52 -0800, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com
put finger to keyboard and composed:

Franc Zabkar wrote:

What is that supposed to mean? Is it so hard for you to quantify what
*you* mean by "standard cable"? I have never seen a Blackberry or
Motorola mini-USB cable. Have you? What's on either end? Four pins or
five pins? Is the ID pin grounded or floating? At which end?

The connector is standard, but the Motorola phone recognizes a Motorola
charger by circuitry in the charger that uses the fifth pin as a sense
pin. Hence a 5 pin mini-USB cable connected to the phone, with only +5V
and GND won't charge the phone because the phone will know that it isn't
connected to a Motorola charger (or an after-market charger with the
same circuitry). The phone will display "Unauthorized Charger."

Ah, so the Motorola mini-USB cable has 5 pins at both ends?

You guys are made for each other. Best wishes.

--
Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
John