Toshiba TV29C90 problem; Image fades to black...

[Meat Plow]

On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:52:03 -0500, Kyle ) Has Frothed:

We have a very old TV set, bought back in the late 80's that has no
remote, no cable-ready anything, and that you have to manually turn on with
the volume control knob. It's so old that it still has the old VHF and UHF
dials even. But for nearly 20 years this TV has seen limited use but given
us still a great picture despite its age.

Now all of a sudden the TV set is turning itself off and then on again right
after we start it up. This usually goes away after 10-15 minutes, but it is
quite annoying. And when you first turn it on, sometimes it will start then
go back off immediately and takes several minutes of turning it back on each
time it turns itself off before it stops this.


Seeing as how old this TV set is, is it really worth taking to an
electronics repair place? What could be the cause of it? The tube itself
is still very clear, none of the colours in it are bad or off at all! So to
me it sounds like a short in the on/off switch - but I wanted to get some
opinions before investing in a new one. After all, it's rare to find any
piece of electronic equipment that lasts almost 20 years so I feel like
tossing it aside just because of what may be a simple problem! I know new
TVs are cheap, but I'd rather spend the $100 to $150 on other things more
important if this can be fixed for a modest price.

Thanks in advance!

X-posted this to the guys in sci.electronics.repair
--
Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2004

COOSN-266-06-25794

 

[Charlie East]

You can eleminate the switch by placing a jumper across the on / off portion
of the switch.If it works with the jumper, replace the switch. If not, look
for some bad solder or maybe Caps in the power supply.

"Meat Plow" <meat@meatplow.local> wrote in message
newsan.2006.11.12.16.34.35.455000@nntp.sun-meatplow.local...

On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:52:03 -0500, Kyle ) Has Frothed:

We have a very old TV set, bought back in the late 80's that has no
remote, no cable-ready anything, and that you have to manually turn on
with
the volume control knob. It's so old that it still has the old VHF and
UHF
dials even. But for nearly 20 years this TV has seen limited use but
given
us still a great picture despite its age.

Now all of a sudden the TV set is turning itself off and then on again
right
after we start it up. This usually goes away after 10-15 minutes, but
it is
quite annoying. And when you first turn it on, sometimes it will start
then
go back off immediately and takes several minutes of turning it back on
each
time it turns itself off before it stops this.


Seeing as how old this TV set is, is it really worth taking to an
electronics repair place? What could be the cause of it? The tube
itself
is still very clear, none of the colours in it are bad or off at all!
So to
me it sounds like a short in the on/off switch - but I wanted to get
some
opinions before investing in a new one. After all, it's rare to find
any
piece of electronic equipment that lasts almost 20 years so I feel like
tossing it aside just because of what may be a simple problem! I know
new
TVs are cheap, but I'd rather spend the $100 to $150 on other things
more
important if this can be fixed for a modest price.

Thanks in advance!

X-posted this to the guys in sci.electronics.repair
--
Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2004

COOSN-266-06-25794

 

[James Sweet]

Meat Plow wrote:

On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:52:03 -0500, Kyle ) Has Frothed:


We have a very old TV set, bought back in the late 80's that has no
remote, no cable-ready anything, and that you have to manually turn on with
the volume control knob. It's so old that it still has the old VHF and UHF
dials even. But for nearly 20 years this TV has seen limited use but given
us still a great picture despite its age.

Now all of a sudden the TV set is turning itself off and then on again right
after we start it up. This usually goes away after 10-15 minutes, but it is
quite annoying. And when you first turn it on, sometimes it will start then
go back off immediately and takes several minutes of turning it back on each
time it turns itself off before it stops this.


Seeing as how old this TV set is, is it really worth taking to an
electronics repair place? What could be the cause of it? The tube itself
is still very clear, none of the colours in it are bad or off at all! So to
me it sounds like a short in the on/off switch - but I wanted to get some
opinions before investing in a new one. After all, it's rare to find any
piece of electronic equipment that lasts almost 20 years so I feel like
tossing it aside just because of what may be a simple problem! I know new
TVs are cheap, but I'd rather spend the $100 to $150 on other things more
important if this can be fixed for a modest price.

Thanks in advance!

It's probably some capacitors in the power supply, it's almost certainly
NOT the off-on switch, that's always the first thing people suspect and
virtually never the problem. If in doube, jumper across the switch
temporarily and plug it in.

 

Meat Plow wrote:

On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:52:03 -0500, Kyle ) Has Frothed:

We have a very old TV set, bought back in the late 80's that has no
remote, no cable-ready anything, and that you have to manually turn on with
the volume control knob. It's so old that it still has the old VHF and UHF
dials even. But for nearly 20 years this TV has seen limited use but given
us still a great picture despite its age.

Now all of a sudden the TV set is turning itself off and then on again right
after we start it up. This usually goes away after 10-15 minutes, but it is
quite annoying. And when you first turn it on, sometimes it will start then
go back off immediately and takes several minutes of turning it back on each
time it turns itself off before it stops this.


Seeing as how old this TV set is, is it really worth taking to an
electronics repair place? What could be the cause of it? The tube itself
is still very clear, none of the colours in it are bad or off at all! So to
me it sounds like a short in the on/off switch - but I wanted to get some
opinions before investing in a new one. After all, it's rare to find any
piece of electronic equipment that lasts almost 20 years so I feel like
tossing it aside just because of what may be a simple problem! I know new
TVs are cheap, but I'd rather spend the $100 to $150 on other things more
important if this can be fixed for a modest price.

Thanks in advance!

X-posted this to the guys in sci.electronics.repair

nearly always symptoms of either a bad psu or bad horzntal output
section. If you think it may be the switch, you wont have any chance of
fixing it. No, not worth a prof repair.

And check out a dictionary some time, a 1980s tv and very old are not
related concepts.


NT

 

[Meat Plow]

On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:02:34 -0800, meow2222 Has Frothed:

Meat Plow wrote:
On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:52:03 -0500, Kyle ) Has Frothed:

We have a very old TV set, bought back in the late 80's that has no
remote, no cable-ready anything, and that you have to manually turn on with
the volume control knob. It's so old that it still has the old VHF and UHF
dials even. But for nearly 20 years this TV has seen limited use but given
us still a great picture despite its age.

Now all of a sudden the TV set is turning itself off and then on again right
after we start it up. This usually goes away after 10-15 minutes, but it is
quite annoying. And when you first turn it on, sometimes it will start then
go back off immediately and takes several minutes of turning it back on each
time it turns itself off before it stops this.


Seeing as how old this TV set is, is it really worth taking to an
electronics repair place? What could be the cause of it? The tube itself
is still very clear, none of the colours in it are bad or off at all! So to
me it sounds like a short in the on/off switch - but I wanted to get some
opinions before investing in a new one. After all, it's rare to find any
piece of electronic equipment that lasts almost 20 years so I feel like
tossing it aside just because of what may be a simple problem! I know new
TVs are cheap, but I'd rather spend the $100 to $150 on other things more
important if this can be fixed for a modest price.

Thanks in advance!

X-posted this to the guys in sci.electronics.repair

nearly always symptoms of either a bad psu or bad horzntal output
section. If you think it may be the switch, you wont have any chance of
fixing it. No, not worth a prof repair.

And check out a dictionary some time, a 1980s tv and very old are not
related concepts.

The topic just to note, is a bit deceptive. The set doesn't turn itself on
initially, just back on after it is turned on and then shuts itself down.
I'm pretty sure everyone understood just thought I'd make a note.

--
Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2004

COOSN-266-06-25794

 

[Bill Jeffrey]

Which web page?

Bill
==================

Joel Kolstad wrote:

If you look at the web page where they tore it apart, you'll see it's little
more than a microwave transistor oscillator using a DRO, another transistor
for the mix, and a PIC microcontroller for all the "smarts." The PCB itself
is a pair of (planar) antennas for Tx and Rx.

Clever idea... I wouldn't be surprised if someone thought it up and realized
they'd make a lot more money selling the design (and consulting on it) to toy
copmanies than just publishing it in, e.g., QEX.

 

[Bill Jeffrey]

Tim Wescott wrote:

maxfoo wrote:

GAWD, These kids nowadays have it made!
Check out this kewl hotwheels radar gun on sale for $20.00 at Walmart.
I wonder if it's accurate though, I might just pick one up and dissect
it!!
Anyone already get one of these, is it accurate? TIA

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=4661205



So, can you bend it down a few hundred megahertz into the amateur 10GHz
band? Without spending more than you would for a Gunnplexer?

Probably not if the tuning element is a DRO.

Bill

 

[elkhound]

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=66fourdoor&ssPageName=STRK:ME:UFS

nearly 1600 positive FB's for individual transactions

from over buyers- meaning several are REPEAT buyers

and only 2 negs

seems like a good sales rep to me- he must be doing something right

this "beware" campaign is obviously a bunch of BS...

 

[Gary]

Been on vacation. I removed PCC board connectors and resoldered
wires. 1 to 1, 2 to 2, 3 to 3 on both ends. Same results. Also
swapped out HOT, still a dead CRT. I looked for a small coil near
the HOT output but there is only a medium sized one. resoldered it
also. Same results.

-------------------------------original
message-----------------------------------------
My Sister gave me the following unit. It's a 2003 model that was
working great. She turned it on a couple of weeks ago and now there is

no video. Still get power LED and sound. No static on CRT at startup.

She bought a new one and gave this one to me. Any suggestions
appreciated.


RCA/Thomson
Model: 27V530T
Service: 27V530TYX1
Chassis: ITC008FBK

Thanks,
GLW


** If the CRT is dark, the failure is most often in the high-voltage,
horizontal scan section. Check the horizontal output transistor.

** Check for a small coil in the base of the H Output, bet there are
lousy
solder connections on each end, seems the glue used to secure the coil
to to
pcb makes it very difficult to produce a good solder connection in
production. Common Problem.

** BTW: If there is a small PCC board on the right side of the chassis
(Viewed
from back) check if there is a three pin connector going from the Main
pcb
to the PCC board. Cut the ends off, I.E. the plugs, and hard wire the
PCC
board to the Main board. Remove the black plastic plugs and pins at
each
location, solder the wires directly to the solder pads. Pay attentionto
the
colour rotation of the wires, it is easy to get them mixed up. ITC008
common
problem.

 

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 16:16:05 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

clare at snyder.on.ca wrote
lsmartino <luismartino76@gmail.com> wrote
Rod Speed wrote

They can do the estimate considering an ambient temperature of 20ÂşC -
25ÂşC. Check the datasheet of any semiconductor and learn something
before you write. Any rise in the temperature will shorten the
lifespan of the product. To me, that´s a quite profitable scenario.

Also, you will notice that the same circuit will have electrolytic
capacitors near heat sources, when it´s a well known fact that
heat shortens dramatically the life of electrolytics caps.

In practice that isnt a significant problem with domestic
appliances. Essentially because you dont see many
electros in that situation with them.

Are you crazy? Have you ever seen a modern SMPS? Try to tell all us
that a SMPS (Switched Mode Power Supply, in case you don´t know what
a SMPS is) don´t HAVE electrolytics caps, and that those caps doesn´t
have a finite lifespan. Even electrolytics are classified based on
their MBTF at certain temperatures. Again, try to find the datasheet
of some electrolitycs caps, and educate yourself.

And just about anything electronic today is using SMPSs

The manufacturer know how to properly design an electronic
circuit in order to provide a long life, but it also it knows how
to design it to fail within a short term under certain conditions,

No they dont on that silly claim about surviving the
warranty fine, but failing immediately after that expires.

I replace enought ATX computer SMPSs before they hit 3
years - many within 2, and too many within one. And they
are running, in many cases, on protected power supplies.

Irrelevant to the silly claim they are DESIGNED to fail just outside
the warranty so you will buy another from same manufacture.

No one is telling that the product will explode right after
the warranty expires, but that it can be designed to fail
within a short life span, especially with cheap products.

and accordingly they estimate a warranty just long
enough to cover the product for a safe term, a
safe term for the manufacturer, not the user.

Have fun explaining how come not a single electronic device
I have ever owned has died just after the warranty has run out.

And that includes my latest gigantic widescreen TV too.

Of course it´s impossible to predict exactly how many years
the TV will last, but the manufacturer count with statistical
data which says, for instance, that a TV set is turned on
10 hours per day for instance, and taking that into account,
and estimating how long the weakest part of the TV will last
under these conditions, they can determine the warranty lapse.

Pity about the TVs that get left on all the time.

A TV, or a computer monitor left on all the time will last less time
of course. A CRT has a definite lifespan, and if the monitor or the
TV set is a LCD based one, the CFL bulbs used to light up the screen
have a definite lifespan. Did you knew that, Mr. Know Nothing ?

And certain parts ONLY fail on start-up because of power surges.
Some devices would run litterally forever if never shut off - others
are robust enough to handle starting and stopping but have finite life
devices. My experience with computer monitors (over 17 years) has
been those left on 24/7 generally outlast those that are started and
stopped several times a day. Phosphor burn used to be the major
problem with 24/7 operation. Today it is SMPS failure. I can't
remember the last monitor I had to replace due to CRT failure.

Quite a few are uneconomic to repair due to an FBT failure, but again,
thats just bad design, not deliberately designing them to fail just outside
warranty so you will buy another from the same manufacturer.

My own newest monitor is well over 5 years old now. It is
generally never turned off (just powers itself down when I leave)

Yeah, I used to leave them on all the time and now turn them
off overnight, just because I now have a number of big 19"
monitors and the power consumption isnt trivial.

I dont turn the PCs off tho with the exception of the laptop.

The claim is completely fanciful and those making that sort of
claim have obviously never actually designed a damned thing.

And only the stupidest manufacturer would deliberatly design
their product to die as soon as the warranty has expired
anyway, because the bulk of those who had bought such
a dud wouldnt be buying another from that manufacturer.

How many people who owned Chevy Vegas
bought a second one? THOUSANDS.

Bugger all that had one blow up their face.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Before I
stasrted innthe computer business I had 25 years under my belt in the
automotive service industry. Ten of those years as a service manager.
I was in the industry when the Vega was produced and sold. I saw them
fail. I saw the owners buying new vegas. I saw them buying no Chevies
after the vega was no longer made. They bought Chevy Cavaliers ten and
15 years later. They bought new ones when the head gaskets blew and
the heads cracked. Man, it takes a lot of bad Ju-Ju to get a died in
the wool Chevy man to switch brand loyalty!!!!!!

Now there ARE lots of people who will buy anything - don't mater who
made it - but in North America there are Ford people who will never
own anything BUT a Ford. There are Chevy people who would never buy a
Pontiac or a Buick. Make any sense? Nope.
Even people who quit buying Chrysler products when they could no
longer buy a Plymouth. Buy a Dodge? Not on your life.Old habits die
hard - particularly with old guys and cars.

And how many who bought Vega bought another Chevy?
Thousands and thousands and tens of thousands.

Bugger all that had one blow up their face.

And the average Vega did NOT make it through warranty.

Irrelevant with cars where most expect to need to make warranty
claims before the Japs put a bomb under the US manufacturers.

How many people who had their Cadillacs in the shop
more than in their driveway bought another Cadillac? Thousands.

Sure, there are a few niche markets with buyers that stupid.

Jaguar in spades. Aston Martins, etc etc etc.

And a few, after the second or third, got smart and bought a Lexus.

Yep, clearly most buyers noticed how the Japs had
put a bomb under the US manufacturers and got a clue.

Happened to Rolls Royce too.

It took a friend 7 or 8 Caddies over 3 years to finally make the
change. He figured it had to just be his luck untill he talked to
enough other owners to be convinced it was the CAR, not him.

Sure, there will always be some that stupid.

Doesnt happen much with domestic appliances tho.

Plenty have decided that Sony products are now steaming turds to be avoided.

Tell that to the manufacturer of Coby products, for instance.
They have quite a long time selling trash that fails quite quickly.

They quote the useful lifetime of a hardrive in MTBF hours.

That is calculated, not measured. Convert that MTBF
to years and you will discover why they cant possibility
have tested them to get those numbers.

Don´t answer "it´s impossible" if you are not prepared to give
a real explanation. Samsung, Seagate, WD... any decent hard
drive manufactures gives an estimate lifetime of their products.
These estimates are provided in the datasheet of each harddrive.

And they are ESTIMATES, not measured results.

Educated guesses. Finite Element Analysis.
Pretty accurate predictive methodology.

And NOT the claimed TESTING.

Exactly, these are estimates,

Pity the claim was about TESTING, which doesnt happen, like I said.

and most of the time very accurate,

Like hell it is. Have you actually tried converting
the MTBF of a current hard drive to years ?

It can be something like 15 years or more of constant
use, without a stop. And I have seen hard drives
surviving at least more than 10 years of hard work.

specially those concerning the maximum number of startups/stops
the drive can tolerate before the heads get completely worn.

Wrong again. Its such a round number it cant have been produced
by TESTING, and the number of starts and stops dont produce
any wear of the heads with modern hard drives anyway.

You are wrong again. When the platters stops, the heads contact the
platters. While the platters are spinning at full speed, the heads
are separated from them by a small air cushion formed by the
rotational speed of the platter. As soon the HDD is turned off, the
platters loses speed, and eventually the air cushion dissapear, thus
the heads make contact with the platters. The same happens in
reverse sequence when the HDD starts. That´s why start / stop cicles
have a definite impact in any HDD. Have you ever wondered why a HDD
last less in a home environment than in a office environment?

ANd Hard drives that are never shut off generally DO last
significantly longer than those that get powered down

They do indeed.

(which is why I disable power management on my servers).

I do on all systems except laptops where it does help time on battery.

And even MS has noticed and thats the default now with XP with desktops.

I have a set of 10 year old scsi drives in one of the servers that will likely
go another 10 years if I don't scrap the server. That server has not had
a SINGLE FAILURE over those 10 years. It cost about $10,000 new.
The drives were likely over $1000 each. They are 8gb?
The EIDE drive I just installed is 160gb and cost $79.00. Will it last
10 years? Not likely!

Bet it will or more strictly last till it gets discarded because its too small or too slow.

I've only ever had one PC hard drive failure, and thats with a hell of a lot of drives.

Not a shred of evidence that anyone is actually stupid enough
to deliberately attempt to design a drive which fails just outside
warranty to be replaced by another from the same manufacturer.

The spectacular duds the PC industry has seen, the IBM 75GXPs,
the 60GXPs, the Fujitsu MPGs etc have all been massive footshots
that were unintended, like most footshots are.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

 

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 16:39:18 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

clare at snyder.on.ca wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
lsmartino <luismartino76@gmail.com> wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Please explain how the manufacturer of a light bulb, fluorescent
lamp or CFL can provide an estimate of the lifetime of the lamp.

That is trivial to do by running an adequate sized batch of
incandescent light bulbs under appropriate test conditions etc.

Don´t say "They can´t because it´s impossible".
Explain exactly why it´s impossible.

Its up to those who claim that its possible to design a device
to die one year after the warrant expires how that can be done.

Well, it can be estimated how long will a power semiconductor
run if you leave it without a proper heatsink.

Not in a domestic environment it aint, because
the ambient temperature varys so much.

I got a bit of a start relatively recently when someone was having
overheating problems with their PC to discover that they were one
of the few in this area who were silly enough to have no form of
cooling whatever, not even a swamp cooler, in an area which can
see 10 days over 40C some summers. We had one just last week
and it got to 44C, and it was like walking into a furnace walking
outside my airconditioned house.

Open any Samsung TV, for instance, to see for yourself
how important transistors are left bare, dissipatting heat
to the air. I don´t see why it should be difficult for the
manufacturer to know that these particular transistors
left overheating will fail within a finite number of hours.

There is no finite number of hours, because the
ambient temp varys so much in domestic situations.

Those who dont have any cooling at all in an area which
can see a week over 40C wont survive the warranty
period and those who have decent air conditioning will
find that the TV lasts long past the warranty period.

Also, you will notice that the same circuit will have electrolytic
capacitors near heat sources, when it´s a well known fact that
heat shortens dramatically the life of electrolytics caps.

In practice that isnt a significant problem with domestic appliances.
Essentially because you dont see many electros in that situation
with them.

The manufacturer know how to properly design an electronic
circuit in order to provide a long life, but it also it knows how
to design it to fail within a short term under certain conditions,

No they dont on that silly claim about surviving the
warranty fine, but failing immediately after that expires.

and accordingly they estimate a warranty just long
enough to cover the product for a safe term, a
safe term for the manufacturer, not the user.

Have fun explaining how come not a single electronic device
I have ever owned has died just after the warranty has run out.

And that includes my latest gigantic widescreen TV too.

Of course it´s impossible to predict exactly how many years
the TV will last, but the manufacturer count with statistical
data which says, for instance, that a TV set is turned on
10 hours per day for instance, and taking that into account,
and estimating how long the weakest part of the TV will last
under these conditions, they can determine the warranty lapse.

Pity about the TVs that get left on all the time.

The claim is completely fanciful and those making that sort of
claim have obviously never actually designed a damned thing.

And only the stupidest manufacturer would deliberatly design
their product to die as soon as the warranty has expired
anyway, because the bulk of those who had bought such
a dud wouldnt be buying another from that manufacturer.

They also do product reliability testing to see
how long on average it is before a product fails.

No they dont with domestic appliances.

They dont even do that with mass market hard drives anymore.

Yes they do.

No they dont.

They quote the useful lifetime of a hardrive in MTBF hours.

That is calculated, not measured. Convert that MTBF
to years and you will discover why they cant possibility
have tested them to get those numbers.

Don´t answer "it´s impossible" if you are not prepared to give
a real explanation. Samsung, Seagate, WD... any decent hard
drive manufactures gives an estimate lifetime of their products.
These estimates are provided in the datasheet of each harddrive.

And they are ESTIMATES, not measured results.

Exactly, these are estimates,

Pity the claim was about TESTING, which doesnt happen, like I said.

and most of the time very accurate,

Like hell it is. Have you actually tried converting
the MTBF of a current hard drive to years ?

The average quality EIDE drive has a published MTBF of
400,000 hours. That wouild be 45 years on my computer.

Yep, that's what I meant.

I've had LOTS that never made 3 years.

You arent cooling them properly.

BS. They have NEVER gone over 40 degrees C. They live year round
between 65 and 72 degrees F (talking about my own systems) They start
losing sectors after about a year, and reach the undependable stage
after 2 or three. Some last 2 years, and some are still going after 7.
I've even got a Fujitsu MPG still running, and doing just fine (that's
one out of well over 100 I put into service)

If they test 1000 drives for 400 hours and get one failure, they have
their MTBF of 400,000 hours - 1 failure in 400,000 hours of running.

Nope, it aint measured like that.

They will actually do a larger test sample over
a larger time span Likely 2500 for 500 hours.

No they dont with mass market commodity drives.

Give it up.

That gives them 125,000,000 running hours and if they
have 3.125 failures they have a 400,000 hour MTBF.-

They dont determine the MTBF like that either.

but that's how the numbers are arrived at if they are not just
using statistical analysis methods.(predictive failure). Today's
hard drives with S.M.A.R.T. technology can predict their
failure date quite accurately. (using third party software).

Nope, they cant even consider the majority
of drives that fail with no prior indication of failure.
Other than bearing failure (which CAN cause S.M.A.R.T. to find

anomolies) and drive electronics failures,(which generally do not, as
they fail "hard") they can and DO predict failure before any "prior
indication of failure"

I just pulled 2 drives from service because they
predicted their own death in less than 60 days.

Bet they wouldnt have failed in that time.
My time to restore the sytem is worth more than the replacement drive,

so I replace when it says there is a problem. Tried stretching a
laptop drive that said there was a problem developing and had to
replace it and do a complete restore less than 2 weeks later.

That steaming turd gets it wrong much more often than it gets it right.

One was made on the 123rd day of 2003 (seagate),
the other the last day of January 2004 (wd).

Being a WD Caviar retail drive it has a 1 year warranty. If it
was a "distribution" drive, it would have a 3 year warranty.
Might have lasted 2 years - but I don't take a chance on my data.

Anyone with a clue has proper backups.
Yup - have backups of all the data. Still have to re-install all the

OS and programs, along with the myriad updates and patches.

Also, when is the last time you actually TESTED your backup? I test
mine, but the majority have "blind faith" untill the time comes that
they NEED to restore. Restoration of the drive can also take the
better part of a day of downtime, while preventative replacement can
take as little as a couple hours in off-time.

The Seagate has a 1 year warranty, and was in a computer
that only runs a few hours a week - and lasted less than 3 years.
I used to work for the (then) largest hard drive distributor in Canada.

But didnt manage to work out how the MTBF is determined.

specially those concerning the maximum number of startups/stops
the drive can tolerate before the heads get completely worn.

Wrong again. Its such a round number it cant have been produced
by TESTING, and the number of starts and stops dont produce
any wear of the heads with modern hard drives anyway.

I don´t want to imply that all manufacturers are dishonest per se,
but I can easily see how a given manufacturer can produce different
items, with differents level of quality of design and manufacture.
And these differences *will* impact the useful lifetime of the final product.

Separate matter entirely to the claim that they do reliability
TESTING with domestic appliances.

They dont, and dont with mass market hard drives either to
produce the MTBF or the number of start stop cycles either.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

 

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 16:50:03 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

Too_Many_Tools <too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote:

Most companies data isn't worth anything after only a handful of years.

Engineering data is the heart of a business.

Not data thats a handful of years old.

Management often forgets that.

Then a competitor eats them alive.

Bet you cant list any examples of that with data thats older than a handful of years old.

I sure can. I milwright designs a feed mill. Back in 1966. He rebuilds
that mill in 1981. He builds 5 more mills between those dates, and
onother 12 since.
His office burns down and he loses all his engineering drawings.or the
drawings get soaked when a pipe breaks. How much were those
engineering drawings from 1965 worth today?
Hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Another firm with current engineering drawings will eat him alive when
a new mill is up for tender.
That's why he invests in a large format scanner and enters ALL the old
drawings into cad, at very high cost, and keeps 2 offsite backups.

Or take a land surveyor's office.
ALL the surveys done in the past 35+ years are kept onsite, and many
are referred to daily to tie in new surveys etc. What would it cost to
regenerate even a small fraction of those survey plans? What is their
current value??? Significantly higher than the original cost to
produce the survey.

Anthony Matonak wrote:
John Husvar wrote:
"Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote:
Archival storage of data is a BIG deal that the industry doesn't
like to talk about.

Most companies data isn't worth anything after only a handful of
years.

Well, I suppose one could print and store all all the data records
on acid-free paper and then physically go find the ones they wanted.
Shouldn't take more than a medium-sized army of clerks and only a
small hollowed mountain range for the storage.

The absolute best storage is microfilm or some variant of it.
You're pretty much assured that no matter what happens with
technology that you'll still be able to read it, even decades
later. You can buy computer microfilm printers. Direct print
to microfilm, no developing required.

Anthony

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

 

[DeserTBoB]

On 17 Jan 2007 16:05:23 -0800, "elkhound" <elkhound68@yahoo.com>
wrote:

http://cgi.ebay<snip

This spam, from Charlie Nudo, 160 Bear Run Dr. of Drums, PA, aka
"66fourdoor" on eBay, violates eBay's rules regarding Usenet spamming:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/usenet_policy.html

It also violates Google's Terms of Service regarding spamming. Please
take a moment to forward this well documented spammer/fraudster's
spam, along with headers, to:

spam@ebay.com (be sure to include a link to their own Usenet policy,
above)
abuse@epix.net (main Epix account email address:
thenudofamily@epix.net)
groups-abuse@google.com

More information on this notorious fraudster and spammer can be found
on:

http://nudowatch.blogspot.com

 

[Jumpster Jiver]

gerryu21220@gmail.com wrote:

Oh, man... really? Is that the same as the infamous "Skippy"?

I'm curious: if this guy is such bad news, how did he ever get a 1500+
positive feedback rating on eBay? Wouldn't he get a lot more negative
feedback? Not trying to defend him - don't know this person, nor dealt
with him. Just puzzled.

Gerry

It probably means he is a good seller on ebay, especially if he has a
100% (or near that) positive rating.
Bu it also means he does not know the rules about where you may spam
advertisements about your items for sale.

 

[Vic Smith]

On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 11:11:48 -0800, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote:

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Most new cars recommend 3000 miles under severe conditions.

Not true.

Some recommend 3000. A lot more recommend 5000 for severe, 7500 for
"normal."

The real problem is that the oil change industry has apparently
convinced many people that just about all driving falls into the severe
service category, even though the manufacturer makes it perfectly clear
what they consider severe service, and in reality few people fall into
that category.

Since there's no real downside, at least for the vehicle, in having
unnecessary oil changes, the "cheap insurance" excuses is regularly
trotted out.

Are you going to believe Honda and Toyota, two companies that are
absolutely anal about their reputation for long term dependability, or
are you going to believe Jiffy Lube?

A person forks over $30,000.00 or $40,000.00 to one of those dealers
you speak of who says from behind his $500 suit, "Nah, just change
the oil every 5,000 miles and don't worry about. Excuse me, I've got
to talk to a customer"
Same person pulls into a Jiffy Lube maybe 4 times a year and hears
an earnest kid in greasy overalls say "Oil and filter changed, added 2
pounds of air to front left and right rear tire, air filter ok, trans
fluid ok, topped off the washer fluid. You might want to get your
serpentine belt checked, sir. It's frayed. That'll be $21.99, sir.
Thank you for using Jiffy Lube. See you in 3 months or 3000 miles."

What's the better experience?
Now it's time for you to trot out the tales of oil streaks on the road
leaving Jiffy Lube and a blown engine because the kid cross threaded
the drain plug.
You got your stories, I got mine.

--Vic

 

[Mark Rand]

On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 08:07:28 -0600, Leonardo <alcamoz@centurytel.net> wrote:

Mark Rand wrote:



Manufacturer's recommended oil change interval for the Peugeot 407 is 20,000
miles.


Probably why they don't sell them in the 'States'


LA

Maybe you need to look for automobiles with decent engines then


Mark Rand
RTFM

 

[Gunner]

On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 15:25:13 -0600, Vic Smith
<thismailautodeleted@comcast.net> wrote:

On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 11:11:48 -0800, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com
wrote:

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Most new cars recommend 3000 miles under severe conditions.

Not true.

Some recommend 3000. A lot more recommend 5000 for severe, 7500 for
"normal."

The real problem is that the oil change industry has apparently
convinced many people that just about all driving falls into the severe
service category, even though the manufacturer makes it perfectly clear
what they consider severe service, and in reality few people fall into
that category.

Since there's no real downside, at least for the vehicle, in having
unnecessary oil changes, the "cheap insurance" excuses is regularly
trotted out.

Are you going to believe Honda and Toyota, two companies that are
absolutely anal about their reputation for long term dependability, or
are you going to believe Jiffy Lube?

A person forks over $30,000.00 or $40,000.00 to one of those dealers
you speak of who says from behind his $500 suit, "Nah, just change
the oil every 5,000 miles and don't worry about. Excuse me, I've got
to talk to a customer"
Same person pulls into a Jiffy Lube maybe 4 times a year and hears
an earnest kid in greasy overalls say "Oil and filter changed, added 2
pounds of air to front left and right rear tire, air filter ok, trans
fluid ok, topped off the washer fluid. You might want to get your
serpentine belt checked, sir. It's frayed. That'll be $21.99, sir.
Thank you for using Jiffy Lube. See you in 3 months or 3000 miles."

What's the better experience?
Now it's time for you to trot out the tales of oil streaks on the road
leaving Jiffy Lube and a blown engine because the kid cross threaded
the drain plug.
You got your stories, I got mine.

--Vic

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/jiffy_lube_damage.html

Raymond of Warminster PA (10/31/05)
My 2001 Camry was in the shop for an oil change on Sept. 06, 2005. Their
shop order indicated date of service as Aug.31. After driving to the
Jersey Shore on Wed., Sept. 07 and subsequent driving on Thurs. and
Friday I noticed a strange texture to the rear pasenger mat. On checking
further I found the floor flooded as was the case under the front
pasenger mat. It took two days of mopping and shop vac. at home to suck
up the water. On taking the car to my mechanic I learned that the air
conditioner drain hose had been deliberately shoved up into the car body
and that was the cause of the flood. It was fished down and the problem
was eleminated. The mechanic asured me that this could have only been
done deliberately as the hose was pushed well back from the opening.

I rather like this one....

"They also had poor customer service one of the employee that started on
my car went over to another customer's car and started smoking
marijuanna i made sure he didnt get back under my hood what good that
did it still got messed up all i want is my car fix I am a single
working mother attending school and it is hard trying to get around
without my own transportation I have to pay someone everyday to take me
around and i have missed days off work because i couldnt find someone I
call the region office and they told me I would hear from a distrct
manager I havent heard from one yet Would you please help me to get this
resolved.........

Gunner

"Deep in her heart, every moslem woman yearns to show us her tits"
John Griffin

 

[Edwin Pawlowski]

"Vic Smith" <thismailautodeleted@comcast.net> wrote in message

That'll be $21.99, sir.
Thank you for using Jiffy Lube. See you in 3 months or 3000 miles."

He make shis living changing oil. What do you expect him to say?

What's the better experience?
You got your stories, I got mine.

The better experience is my own evaluation of my own driving habits and
conditions as well as reading what the manufacturer of the engine and
testing laboratories conclude. Short distance driving in cold weather?
Certainly 3000 miles is a good idea. Longer distances in temperate
climates? Easily 7500 miles. Having put 200,000 miles on cars with that
change interval, I'd conclude it works for me. Only car I ever had an oil
related problem was one I bought used with 100,000 miles on it and it was
the GM 3.8 V-6 of the early 80's. I have no idea how, if ever, the oil was
changed in it.

 

[SMS]

Vic Smith wrote:

You got your stories, I got mine.

They're not my stories. There are regularly warnings by automotive
columnists and mechanics to avoid the quick-change oil change places
like the plague, as well as the horror stories of customers that have
had their vehicles damaged by these places.

I'm not risking my vehicle to a place like that. I'll bring it to a
reputable independent mechanic, do it myself, or go to the dealer if
they have a good price. Usually the Toyota dealer has an oil change deal
that is cheaper than Jiffy Lube, plus they are using better quality
filters, and more experienced mechanics.

 

[SMS]

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

"Vic Smith" <thismailautodeleted@comcast.net> wrote in message
That'll be $21.99, sir.
Thank you for using Jiffy Lube. See you in 3 months or 3000 miles."

He make shis living changing oil. What do you expect him to say?


What's the better experience?
You got your stories, I got mine.

The better experience is my own evaluation of my own driving habits and
conditions as well as reading what the manufacturer of the engine and
testing laboratories conclude. Short distance driving in cold weather?

Yes, if you _only_ do short distances, you build up moisture in the oil
system which doesn't get vaporized by engine heat. But short trips with
occasional longer trips and freeway driving gets rid of that moisture.

All the experts agree that 3000 mile oil changes are almost always
unnecessary for normal service.

There are sometimes side benefits to the 3000 mile changes, such as when
people have an oil burning engine yet never check or top off their oil.
The 3000 mile oil changes mean that they'll have a lot more oil in their
engine, on average, than if they did 7500 mile changes. There were some
Saturn engines where the oil needed to be exceptionally clean because it
was used to hydraulically to tension the timing chain. Varnish build-up
in the timing chain tensioner bore could cause the tensioner mechanism
to malfunction, and lead to timing chain failure. But these sorts of
issues are pretty rare.