Today's Lead Free Crap Solder Stories ...

[George Jetson]

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:htbace$3g7$1@news.eternal-september.org...

There is no doubt lead should not be used where it can wind
up being consumed by humans or animals. It's use in gasoline,
paint, dyes, ceramic glazes, cast toys, trinkets, etc is indefensible.
On the other hand, banning it's use in ICs, and circuit boards is
asinine.

The anti-lead argument is that too much electronic equipment is dumped in
landfills, where acidic rainwater slowly dissolves the lead and it winds
up
in the water supply. This is plausible, but I've yet to see any proof.

My argument has long been that the only dangerous substances are those
that
actually get into the environment.

One of the landfills in our area (Ohio USA) has been burning from inside
lately and releasing all sorts of smells and gases. Aluminum waste reacting
with acids or detergent residues can generate hydrogen and lots of heat. If
you mix in some old lead based circuit boards the runoff could get toxic
pretty fast.

Landfills are not controlled storage facilities and putting anything in one
even potentially toxic is a real bad idea.

--
They can have my command prompt when they pry it from my cold dead fingers.

 

[Arfa Daily]

"David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
news:4bfac4b4$0$2374$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com...

On 5/24/2010 2:35 AM N_Cook spake thus:

Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:CwrKn.672$c74.369@newsfe04.ams2...

Well, if nothing else, I'm sure that the bulk of the solder could be
fairly easily removed, but as someone else commented - Michael I
think it was - boards *are* ground up, and the various materials
separated and recovered, including the fibreglass itself, which is then
used for boat hulls and bath tubs, I think he said. Perhaps
Michael knows of some reference on the 'net to this ??

You cannot recover the solder by a process like mechanically stripping
plastic insulation off copper wire , legal in the UK if plastic is
recycled, burning off illegal. So container loads of it
ends up in India to be set fire to and the glass matting ends up in
their dumps and the water courses etc as no economic value even in
India, as far too contaminated and messy

You're not reading, or not paying attention: Michael Terrell explained how
materials are recovered from ground-up circuit boards, and it doesn't
involve any burning like you speculated. Not that this isn't done in
places like India, but that's not the way it's *supposed* to be done.

I can't vouch for the veracity of what Terrell wrote, just reporting what
he said. I'd like some references too, but for now we have to take him at
his word. Which is that the materials in circuit boards *are* recoverable
using presumably environmentally-safe methods.

I put something like "recycling solder on circuit boards" into Google, and
there are many links to sites explaining the processes involved. Wiki has
quite a good article about it.

Arfa

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Arfa Daily wrote:

"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:htda0o$dtd$1@news.eternal-september.org...
Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:gUjKn.14885$ge.3039@newsfe05.ams2...

"David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
news:4bf987fe$0$2362$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com...
On 5/23/2010 12:52 PM David Nebenzahl spake thus:

On 5/23/2010 9:24 AM Arfa Daily spake thus:

Aside from this, there is no reason at all, given the WEEE directive
that was introduced, that effectively prevents electronic items going
to
landfill, that electronic equipment should not be properly recycled,
and the solder, and hence its lead content, recovered. The banning of
leaded solder and its replacement with lead-free, was a solution to a
problem that did not actually exist in the first place, and even if
it
did, had a rather better solution already in hand, with the impending
introduction of the WEEE directive ...

I would feel very differently about this whole matter if there were
proper recycling programs in place for "E-waste", *and* if those
programs
were actually used by the public. As it is, I see lots and lots of
electronics going into the dumpster--literally, meaning the dumpster
into
which I put my trash, which regularly gets contributions of old cell
phones, wireless routers, PC cards, etc., etc.

If that were the case, that we had functioning recycling programs that
captured something like 80-90% of this waste stream, then maybe it
might
be a good idea to go back to good old lead solder.



You may not have any kind of mandated regulations in your part of the
world,
but we do over here in the UK and the rest of Europe. Implementation is a
little patchy so far, and some countries are acting more on the WEEE
directive than others, but the ultimate goal is to make all manufacturers
responsible for the collection of their goods at end of life, and to then
handle either the safe disposal or dismantling and recycling of them.
Electronic recycling companies are springing up all over the UK, and
handling this work under contract. All municipal garbage disposal sites
are
now charged with recycling the items that the public brings to them, and
have bins divided by the type of garbage that they are for. There is
always
one now for electronic equipment.

Instead of the ludicrous scheme of replacing leaded solder with a less
than
satisfactory alternative, a bit of joined up thinking, divorced from the
"remove lead from everything" hysteria, could have resulted in a proper
recycling scheme being introduced much quicker, and without all of the
short
and long term problems that the whole RoHS mess has produced for
manufacturers and service organisations alike.

They managed it for automotive batteries without any fuss, because there
*was* no alternative that was remotely suitable for the job. As I said
before, these are now silently and unobtrusively spirited away, and 100%
recycled.

Arfa



So what exactly can be recycled from electronic scrap, ie the circuit
boards
not plastic casing and metal chassis. Gold from edge connectors if 1970s
boards but not anything since has been economic to process legitimately in
the UK. The rest is mixed plastic and glass fibre and processed sand. As
50
percent of shipping containers leave the UK empty (recent UK BBC4 doc on
"boxes"), the shipping fees for sending scrap boards to be "processed" in
India costs next to nothing , little more than admin costs.



Well, if nothing else, I'm sure that the bulk of the solder could be fairly
easily removed, but as someone else commented - Michael I think it was -
boards *are* ground up, and the various materials separated and recovered,
including the fibreglass itself, which is then used for boat hulls and bath
tubs, I think he said. Perhaps Michael knows of some reference on the 'net
to this ??

I saw it in an electronics manufacturing trade journal about 10 years
ago. Unfortunately, I had to leave all of them where I was working at
the time.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

 

[Adrian Tuddenham]

George Jetson <GJetson@yahoo.com> wrote:

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:htbace$3g7$1@news.eternal-september.org...
There is no doubt lead should not be used where it can wind
up being consumed by humans or animals. It's use in gasoline,
paint, dyes, ceramic glazes, cast toys, trinkets, etc is indefensible.
On the other hand, banning it's use in ICs, and circuit boards is
asinine.

The anti-lead argument is that too much electronic equipment is dumped in
landfills, where acidic rainwater slowly dissolves the lead and it winds
up
in the water supply. This is plausible, but I've yet to see any proof.

My argument has long been that the only dangerous substances are those
that
actually get into the environment.



One of the landfills in our area (Ohio USA) has been burning from inside
lately and releasing all sorts of smells and gases. Aluminum waste reacting
with acids or detergent residues can generate hydrogen and lots of heat. If
you mix in some old lead based circuit boards the runoff could get toxic
pretty fast.

Is anyone measuring it and are they going to publish the results?

--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

 

[George Jetson]

"Adrian Tuddenham" <adrian@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:1jj1jmi.1htaoiwyfcbucN%adrian@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid...

George Jetson <GJetson@yahoo.com> wrote:

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:htbace$3g7$1@news.eternal-september.org...
There is no doubt lead should not be used where it can wind
up being consumed by humans or animals. It's use in gasoline,
paint, dyes, ceramic glazes, cast toys, trinkets, etc is indefensible.
On the other hand, banning it's use in ICs, and circuit boards is
asinine.

The anti-lead argument is that too much electronic equipment is dumped
in
landfills, where acidic rainwater slowly dissolves the lead and it
winds
up
in the water supply. This is plausible, but I've yet to see any proof.

My argument has long been that the only dangerous substances are those
that
actually get into the environment.



One of the landfills in our area (Ohio USA) has been burning from inside
lately and releasing all sorts of smells and gases. Aluminum waste
reacting
with acids or detergent residues can generate hydrogen and lots of heat.
If
you mix in some old lead based circuit boards the runoff could get toxic
pretty fast.

Is anyone measuring it and are they going to publish the results?

--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

All sorts of unplanned groundwater pollution is expected from this fire,
possibly triggered by accepting metallic foundry waste. Ohio is still
discovering unknown toxic waste dumps and the remaining industry keeps
finding ways to make new ones. Greed and capitalism will not solve all our
problems.

It seems cheaper to pollute, get fined repeatedly and go bankrupt before
paying the bill. If we shot the CEO's afterwards they might start getting
the idea its not ok.

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2010/05/10/a-burning-problem-at-landfills.html
--
They can have my command prompt when they pry it from my cold dead fingers.

 

[Wild_Bill]

Burning landfills, burning abandoned coal mines*.. and no agency wants to
pick up the costs of correcting these problems (the folks in the agencies
don't live near the problems).
There appear to be groups that would prefer to study these disasters, and a
huge lack of any action to correct these problems.

The citizens' money, clean water and air will all be properly disposed of.

Part of the problem, the EPA's Allen said, "is that underground fires are
still a relatively new problem for the agency". Bullshit.. followed by this
sentence:
The first occurred 10 years ago at a Trumbull County landfill.
I wasn't able to find any info specifically concerning the Trumble County
landfill.

The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania actually accepts municipal (and probably
industrial) waste to be hauled into PA from as many as 15 other states
(maybe more, now).
Since PA is bordered by only 6 states, this would mean that states beyond
the bordering states are hauling waste long distances to dump waste into PA
landfills.. that's a lot of fuel, whether the waste is moved by truck or
railway.

According to statistics, Americans generated nearly 230 million tons of
municipal solid waste in 1999 (when many stores didn't sell practically all
made in China goods). This number is included in a document entitled:
Landfill Fires Their Magnitude, Characteristics, and Mitigation - May
2002/FA-225.
Of the 230M tons, it's stated that 28% was recycled, and 15% incinerated
(which I don't suppose includes the incineration taking place in active
landfill fires).

*The coal beneath Centralia PA has been burning since 1962, and is precicted
to burn for another 250 years. The Post Office revoked it's zip code.
A concerned citizen offered to dig out the fire for $175 at the beginning.
Bureaucracy inaction followed.
Congress allocated over $42 million for relocation efforts in 1984.

--
Cheers,
WB
..............


"George Jetson" <GJetson@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:htf2fh$qea$1@news.eternal-september.org...

One of the landfills in our area (Ohio USA) has been burning from inside
lately and releasing all sorts of smells and gases. Aluminum waste
reacting with acids or detergent residues can generate hydrogen and lots
of heat. If you mix in some old lead based circuit boards the runoff
could get toxic pretty fast.

Landfills are not controlled storage facilities and putting anything in
one even potentially toxic is a real bad idea.

--
They can have my command prompt when they pry it from my cold dead
fingers.

 

[Mark Zenier]

In article <htbace$3g7$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
William Sommerwerck <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

There is no doubt lead should not be used where it can wind
up being consumed by humans or animals. It's use in gasoline,
paint, dyes, ceramic glazes, cast toys, trinkets, etc is indefensible.
On the other hand, banning it's use in ICs, and circuit boards is
asinine.

The anti-lead argument is that too much electronic equipment is dumped in
landfills, where acidic rainwater slowly dissolves the lead and it winds up
in the water supply. This is plausible, but I've yet to see any proof.

My argument has long been that the only dangerous substances are those that
actually get into the environment.

But as I remember reading business magazines back 20-25 years ago, the
real push to get nasty stuff out of the waste streams were the companies
that built and wanted to run garbage incinerators, so they could get
free fuel to run electric generators. This would reduce their expenses
for sorting the stuff coming in and scrubbing the stuff going out.

Pretty easy to see how big outfits would, by lobbying the legislators
and bureaucrats, influence the various governments, and after a while,
the whole idea would get institutionalized. Even if opposition managed
to cut down on the number of incinerators actually built, the laws and
regulations live on.


Mark Zenier mzenier@eskimo.com
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)