Tesla is fast...

[Ricky]

On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 11:59:20 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Sun, 15 May 2022 01:06:28 +0100, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 10:36:15 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 14 May 2022 03:18:40 +0100, ke...@kjwdesigns.com <ke...@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:

On Thursday, 12 May 2022 at 08:38:18 UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 12 May 2022 07:32:34 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 9:38:46 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 12:58:47 PM UTC+10, Ed Lee wrote:
On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 7:34:43 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 12 May 2022 02:46:24 +0100,...> wrote:

On Wednesday, 11 May 2022 at 15:42:36 UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
...
Why are they needed? What problem are you trying to solve?
The problem frequently in the news where people\'s houses catch fire due to a fault in a charger/torch/etc. Nickel batteries get very hot, Lithium ones explode in a fireball, setting everything around it alight. Liquid lithium at a few thousand degrees was once fired through someone\'s hands while typing on a laptop.

I seriously doubt there was any liquid lithium ejected from the burning battery. The lithium does not exist separately it is bound in the electrodes and there is less than a gram per 18650 cell.
Something hot and liquid came out.
The electrolyte is highly flammable and liquid or a paste that could cause burns.
Could have been it, the point is people get burnt and surrounding things catch fire. I\'ve even seen a video of someone falling down some concrete stairs outdoors in an icy winter, with his mobile phone in his back pocket, which erupted. These batteries are a piece of shit.
Do you think this feature is free?
The cost only adds 10% to the battery approximately.
I doubt it.

https://www.sanwulasers.com/product/18650

Unprotected: $15
Protected: $25
The difference in retail price hasn\'t got much to do with the cost of the extra hardware, and everything to do with what the customer will pay for it.

Of course nobody is paying $15 per cell, or it would cost $100,000 for each Tesla. I would think that Tesla\'s cost of production is around $5 and protection circuit would be more like 30% to 40% in addition cost.
Unless it magically gets cheaper, Lithium batteries are not economically viable for a car. You either have shit range, or the car costs triple what a petrol one would.

For some of portions of the car market the price is already competitive and the other features are similar or better. For example the Tesla Model 3 vs a BMW 3 series - https://www.motor1.com/reviews/378302/bmw-3-series-tesla-model-3-comparison/.
A BMW is not a sensible car. Now please look at cars that cost what they\'re worth. The cheapest petrol car brand new and the cheapest electric car brand new that go a decent mileage (a few hundred miles), are £6K and £25K. Electric is a nice idea, but it\'s nowhere near ready for the public to use. Lithium Ion is not suitable for such a massive amount of power storage.

What is your \"sensible\" car at £6K? Does it have four wheels? Three? Two? There are electric cars at lower prices than £25K. You do have to be willing to look for them though. I expect that\'s not going to happen since it is you we are talking to.
A Dacia Sandero is a basic petrol car. The electric cars under £25K have a shorter range than that.

They aren\'t sold in most of the world and I can\'t buy one, so I don\'t care about it. But I guess that\'s what you drive, right? Then there is the issue that you are only talking about purchase price, not the life cycle cost. That\'s the talk of an ignoramus.

Range is just not an issue for most drivers although it does take a different mindset from the traditional don\'t fill up until empty approach of conventional vehicles.
It\'s a problem for every single driver. Most people do not drive 2 miles to the post office. By the way that range drops like a stone as the battery ages. My petrol tank doesn\'t age.

This is the silly talk we typically get from this poster.
What\'s silly about what I said? Most people will drive a long distance to commute, go on holiday, etc. And I assume you realise batteries don\'t retain the range they had at manufacture.

You know so little about it and yet speak as if you are an expert. That\'s the talk of an ignoramus.

When the fuel cost is included electric cars competitive on price even with average cars like a Toyota Camry. The average new car cost in the US has risen to about $47,000. The cost of a base Tesla Model 3 is $46,990.
WTF are you doing paying $47K for a petrol car? I could buy 6 cars for that.
The absence of regular servicing is very convenient - I have had mine for just about 4 years and it hasn\'t been to the dealer once. Whereas my Prius has required 8 services in that time according to the manual.
Ignore the manual. Take the car to the garage when it goes wrong.
The cost and energy requirement to manufacture the batteries continues to drop - it is below $100 per kWh now from many times that ten years ago.
Then I will wait another 10 years.

No, you should wait another hundred years. I want to see your grip on the steering wheel fossilized.
You don\'t seriously want self driving cars where you just act as a bored passenger do you?

Actually, nothing would please me more. But I don\'t expect to live to see true self driving cars.

It is hard to find a more ignorant person, even in this group.
It\'s amazing you just insult me without any information explaining why you think your viewpoint is correct. But then you are a religious fuckwit of the third degree. Hang on, won\'t you go to hell for being nasty to me? You\'d better go say hail Marys or give the priest a blowjob or whatever nonsense goes on in there.

You are an ignoramus because you want to compare high end electric cars to the world\'s cheapest ICE car that very few people buy. In your ignorant mind this is a reasonable comparison, like the guy who bitches about BEVs never being practical because he only buys old, used cars for $5,000 or less, as if there will never be a used BEV at that price.

No one cares if I insult an ignoramus, especially god. In fact, I probably earn bonus points.

Please stop making up your own alternative facts, eh? Stop being an ignoramus. I guess that\'s not possible.

--

Rick C.

--++- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--++- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky]

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 1:02:30 AM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Sun, 15 May 2022 01:42:53 +0100, ke...@kjwdesigns.com <ke...@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:

On Friday, 13 May 2022 at 19:36:15 UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
...
A BMW is not a sensible car. Now please look at cars that cost what they\'re worth. The cheapest petrol car brand new and the cheapest electric car brand new that go a decent mileage (a few hundred miles), are £6K and £25K. Electric is a nice idea, but it\'s nowhere near ready for the public to use. Lithium Ion is not suitable for such a massive amount of power storage.

According to this the cheapest car in the UK is about £11.5k.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-cars-vans/351901/top-10-cheapest-cars-sale-2022
Bullshit. I used to own a Dacia Sandero. It was £6K. The 4WD version my father still owns, the Duster, that was £10K.
A couple million people a year buy BMWs that you describe as \"not a sensible car\" so Im sure many would disagree with you.
They\'re morons. BMW hasn\'t even invented FWD yet. And they\'re no better than a VW, at a fraction of the price.
Range is just not an issue for most drivers although it does take a different mindset from the traditional don\'t fill up until empty approach of conventional vehicles.
It\'s a problem for every single driver. Most people do not drive 2 miles to the post office. By the way that range drops like a stone as the battery ages. My petrol tank doesn\'t age.
When the fuel cost is included electric cars competitive on price even with average cars like a Toyota Camry. The average new car cost in the US has risen to about $47,000. The cost of a base Tesla Model 3 is $46,990.
WTF are you doing paying $47K for a petrol car? I could buy 6 cars for that.

You could not buy 6 new cars for $47k. And most people don\'t just buy the bare minimum car as can be seen from the average price. You also can\'t meaningfully compare radically dissimilar cars as much of the cost is not just in the propulsion system.
I\'m comparing the cheapest car I can get that will do a sensible range on petrol or electricity.
The absence of regular servicing is very convenient - I have had mine for just about 4 years and it hasn\'t been to the dealer once. Whereas my Prius has required 8 services in that time according to the manual.
Ignore the manual. Take the car to the garage when it goes wrong.

No oil changes?
No.

No brake checking.

If the car stops when I press the pedal, why would it need checked?
What about mandatory smog or MOT tests - do you ignore those as well?
Not exactly, but you can bend them a bit.
The cost and energy requirement to manufacture the batteries continues to drop - it is below $100 per kWh now from many times that ten years ago.
Then I will wait another 10 years.
That\'s your privilege.
It\'s called common sense. People who buy new tech are fools that fund it for the rest of us.

I bought an expensive car because it\'s what I wanted. I could have bought a model 3 for $35,000 and would already have saved $4,000 on fuel expenses. In another six years I\'ll have saved $10,000, bringing the effective price to $25,000 and still dropping. I drove my last vehicle 250,000 miles. That would equate to $25,000 savings making the Tesla model 3 effectively a $10,000 car. Yeah, and it\'s such a nicer car to drive than a Romanian Yugo replacement.

--

Rick C.

--+++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[RichD]

On May 20, John Doe wrote:

They want to cover the Mojave desert with solar panels.
how\'s that going to affect the earth\'s albedo? The solar energy
currently bounced out to Mars, is going to stay earthbound.... drive
your car and coffeemaker... and at the end of the day... global
warming, hello!

Interesting point. Doesn\'t apply to something like solar roofing panels,
since that heat goes into the surrounding area if the sunlight isn\'t
converted into electricity. Reflective roofing panels would be rough on
aircraft.

The fourth law of thermodynamics: in the long run, energy efficiency
is zero, everything thermalizes -

I will say that it is clear you don\'t understand what global warming is
about. It has nothing to do with the efficiency of the energy
conversions required to provide power. It is about the CO2 released in
the process.

Let\'s find salvation in windmills.

Questions:
How much CO2 is released during the construction of the concrete
foundation of the apparatus?
How many Joules does the windmill generate, in its lifetime?
How much CO2 is spewed by the burning of petroleum and gas,
to produce the same quantity of energy?

If the net CO2 footprint of the hydrocarbons is greater than the windmill,
what is the temperature increase due to that extra CO2?
What is the $$ higher operational cost of the windmill, compared to hydrocarbons?
How much is the reduction in warming worth? i.e. what price are you
willing to pay, for that expected reduction?

It\'s notable that the econazis never address these fundamental questions,
don\'t even acknowledge them, which overload their brains, and forbidden
by the Thought Police.


--
Rich

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

mandag den 23. maj 2022 kl. 21.45.20 UTC+2 skrev RichD:

On May 20, John Doe wrote:
They want to cover the Mojave desert with solar panels.
how\'s that going to affect the earth\'s albedo? The solar energy
currently bounced out to Mars, is going to stay earthbound.... drive
your car and coffeemaker... and at the end of the day... global
warming, hello!

Interesting point. Doesn\'t apply to something like solar roofing panels,
since that heat goes into the surrounding area if the sunlight isn\'t
converted into electricity. Reflective roofing panels would be rough on
aircraft.

The fourth law of thermodynamics: in the long run, energy efficiency
is zero, everything thermalizes -

I will say that it is clear you don\'t understand what global warming is
about. It has nothing to do with the efficiency of the energy
conversions required to provide power. It is about the CO2 released in
the process.
Let\'s find salvation in windmills.

Questions:
How much CO2 is released during the construction of the concrete
foundation of the apparatus?
How many Joules does the windmill generate, in its lifetime?
How much CO2 is spewed by the burning of petroleum and gas,
to produce the same quantity of energy?

If the net CO2 footprint of the hydrocarbons is greater than the windmill,
what is the temperature increase due to that extra CO2?
What is the $$ higher operational cost of the windmill, compared to hydrocarbons?
How much is the reduction in warming worth? i.e. what price are you
willing to pay, for that expected reduction?

It\'s notable that the econazis never address these fundamental questions,
don\'t even acknowledge them, which overload their brains, and forbidden
by the Thought Police.

what are you on about?

https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2021/06/whats-the-carbon-footprint-of-a-wind-turbine/

 

[ke...@kjwdesigns.com]

On Tuesday, 17 May 2022 at 12:10:26 UTC-7, John Doe wrote:

Using a jillion tiny cells makes a difference because if any of those cells
fail, the whole car explodes and kills the driver.

That is not true. The car is very unlikely to explode if a single cell fails. Even if multiple cells fail an explosion is also extremely unlikely.

From the NTHSA report - \"Lithium-ion Battery Safety Issues for Electric and Plug-in Hybrid Vehicles\".

\"Regarding the risk of electrochemical failure, the report concludes that the propensity and severity of fires and explosions from the accidental ignition of flammable electrolytic solvents used in Li-ion battery systems are anticipated to be somewhat comparable to or perhaps slightly less than those for gasoline or diesel vehicular fuels.\"
https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/documents/12848-lithiumionsafetyhybrids_101217-v3-tag.pdf

A cell can overheat under exceptional circumstances but a small cell may in actual fact be safer than larger ones as the energy of a single cell failure might be contained within its own steel container and not affect the rest of the battery to the point of failure. The fuse or other disconnect for the cell would electrically isolate the failed cell from the rest of the battery. If the cell breaches its own enclosure it could spread the failure to other cells.

kw

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sun, 15 May 2022 01:46:22 +0100, ke...@kjwdesigns.com <keith@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:

On Friday, 13 May 2022 at 19:43:51 UTC-7, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 7:18:45 PM UTC-7, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
The cost and energy requirement to manufacture the batteries continues to drop - it is below $100 per kWh now from many times that ten years ago.
I don\'t think the Tesla (50kWh) battery cost below $5000.

Probably not but the battery costs are declining and like likely to go further (albeit with blips caused by current world problems)

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1134307_report-ev-battery-costs-might-rise-in-2022

As Lithium runs out, the prices will skyrocket. And what world problems? There aren\'t any real ones, just ones caused by silly governments.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sun, 15 May 2022 01:46:55 +0100, ke...@kjwdesigns.com <keith@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:

On Friday, 13 May 2022 at 19:53:02 UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 14 May 2022 03:43:47 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 7:18:45 PM UTC-7, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
The cost and energy requirement to manufacture the batteries continues to drop - it is below $100 per kWh now from many times that ten years ago.

I don\'t think the Tesla (50kWh) battery cost below $5000.
Nothing made by Tesla is a sensible price, I\'m sure Musk is related to Jobs. It\'s the same Apple tactics.

Nobody is forcing you to buy one.

It irritates me anyone buys that shit. Especially when someone with an Iphone tries to email me a photograph.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sun, 15 May 2022 01:54:31 +0100, ke...@kjwdesigns.com <keith@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:

On Friday, 13 May 2022 at 21:50:26 UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
...

These days Apple and Tesla are relying on their prestige to sell good products at an inflated price in the same way.
...

They are actually not that inflated - Apple\'s prices are competitive with similar offerings from top tier vendors such as Samsung.

Samsung inflate equally. I have a £30 phone which equals a £250 Iphone or Samsung.

> In general Apple chooses not to sell the lower cost products in any market so their average prices may seem to be higher.

Yes, those round corners and brushed aluminium make it worth much more.

> Similarly Tesla\'s prices are comparable with other top tier car makers.. People buy Tesla cars because they meet their needs better than most others

They\'re no better, they\'re just a thing to show off like a Ferrari.

> and they avoid some of the issues with pricing that other makers suffer from such as predatory markups from their car dealer network. There have been articles about $50,000 dealer markups for some popular but difficult to obtain models.

How is that predatory?

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 3:26:57 PM UTC+10, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Sun, 15 May 2022 01:46:22 +0100, ke...@kjwdesigns.com <ke...@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:

On Friday, 13 May 2022 at 19:43:51 UTC-7, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 7:18:45 PM UTC-7, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
The cost and energy requirement to manufacture the batteries continues to drop - it is below $100 per kWh now from many times that ten years ago.
I don\'t think the Tesla (50kWh) battery cost below $5000.

Probably not but the battery costs are declining and like likely to go further (albeit with blips caused by current world problems)

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1134307_report-ev-battery-costs-might-rise-in-2022

As Lithium runs out, the prices will skyrocket. And what world problems? There aren\'t any real ones, just ones caused by silly governments.

Lithium isn\'t going to run out. The increasing demand is currently increasing prices, but miners are responding by opening new lithium mines (and reactivating old ones).

Supply and demand will work its usual magic.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sun, 15 May 2022 06:10:59 +0100, Ricky <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 11:59:20 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 15 May 2022 01:06:28 +0100, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 10:36:15 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 14 May 2022 03:18:40 +0100, ke...@kjwdesigns.com <ke...@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:

On Thursday, 12 May 2022 at 08:38:18 UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 12 May 2022 07:32:34 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:

Of course nobody is paying $15 per cell, or it would cost $100,000 for each Tesla. I would think that Tesla\'s cost of production is around $5 and protection circuit would be more like 30% to 40% in addition cost.
Unless it magically gets cheaper, Lithium batteries are not economically viable for a car. You either have shit range, or the car costs triple what a petrol one would.

For some of portions of the car market the price is already competitive and the other features are similar or better. For example the Tesla Model 3 vs a BMW 3 series - https://www.motor1.com/reviews/378302/bmw-3-series-tesla-model-3-comparison/.
A BMW is not a sensible car. Now please look at cars that cost what they\'re worth. The cheapest petrol car brand new and the cheapest electric car brand new that go a decent mileage (a few hundred miles), are £6K and £25K. Electric is a nice idea, but it\'s nowhere near ready for the public to use. Lithium Ion is not suitable for such a massive amount of power storage.

What is your \"sensible\" car at £6K? Does it have four wheels? Three? Two? There are electric cars at lower prices than £25K. You do have to be willing to look for them though. I expect that\'s not going to happen since it is you we are talking to.
A Dacia Sandero is a basic petrol car. The electric cars under £25K have a shorter range than that.

They aren\'t sold in most of the world and I can\'t buy one, so I don\'t care about it.

Not my fault you live in a shit country.

> But I guess that\'s what you drive, right?

I cahnged it for something older and larger.

> Then there is the issue that you are only talking about purchase price, not the life cycle cost. That\'s the talk of an ignoramus.

If you want to go that route, electric cars have that annoying habit of needing a new battery.

Range is just not an issue for most drivers although it does take a different mindset from the traditional don\'t fill up until empty approach of conventional vehicles.
It\'s a problem for every single driver. Most people do not drive 2 miles to the post office. By the way that range drops like a stone as the battery ages. My petrol tank doesn\'t age.

This is the silly talk we typically get from this poster.
What\'s silly about what I said? Most people will drive a long distance to commute, go on holiday, etc. And I assume you realise batteries don\'t retain the range they had at manufacture.

You know so little about it and yet speak as if you are an expert. That\'s the talk of an ignoramus.

Are you going to bother giving an answer or just fold your arms and say no?

When the fuel cost is included electric cars competitive on price even with average cars like a Toyota Camry. The average new car cost in the US has risen to about $47,000. The cost of a base Tesla Model 3 is $46,990.
WTF are you doing paying $47K for a petrol car? I could buy 6 cars for that.
The absence of regular servicing is very convenient - I have had mine for just about 4 years and it hasn\'t been to the dealer once. Whereas my Prius has required 8 services in that time according to the manual.
Ignore the manual. Take the car to the garage when it goes wrong.
The cost and energy requirement to manufacture the batteries continues to drop - it is below $100 per kWh now from many times that ten years ago.
Then I will wait another 10 years.

No, you should wait another hundred years. I want to see your grip on the steering wheel fossilized.
You don\'t seriously want self driving cars where you just act as a bored passenger do you?

Actually, nothing would please me more. But I don\'t expect to live to see true self driving cars.

Are you lazy or just shit at driving? If me and a friend are going somewhere in one car, I will want to be the one that drives. Most people like driving.

It is hard to find a more ignorant person, even in this group.
It\'s amazing you just insult me without any information explaining why you think your viewpoint is correct. But then you are a religious fuckwit of the third degree. Hang on, won\'t you go to hell for being nasty to me? You\'d better go say hail Marys or give the priest a blowjob or whatever nonsense goes on in there.

You are an ignoramus because you want to compare high end electric cars to the world\'s cheapest ICE car that very few people buy.

No, I want to compare cars with the same range. Most electric cars have un unusable range.

> In your ignorant mind this is a reasonable comparison, like the guy who bitches about BEVs

Who is Bev and how big are her tits?

> never being practical because he only buys old, used cars for $5,000 or less, as if there will never be a used BEV at that price.

I actually compared new cars above, do pay attention at the back.

> No one cares if I insult an ignoramus, especially god. In fact, I probably earn bonus points.

But what if you\'re incorrect in your estimation of my ignoramity?

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sun, 15 May 2022 06:15:49 +0100, Ricky <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 1:02:30 AM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 15 May 2022 01:42:53 +0100, ke...@kjwdesigns.com <ke...@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:

On Friday, 13 May 2022 at 19:36:15 UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
...
A BMW is not a sensible car. Now please look at cars that cost what they\'re worth. The cheapest petrol car brand new and the cheapest electric car brand new that go a decent mileage (a few hundred miles), are £6K and £25K. Electric is a nice idea, but it\'s nowhere near ready for the public to use. Lithium Ion is not suitable for such a massive amount of power storage.

According to this the cheapest car in the UK is about £11.5k.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-cars-vans/351901/top-10-cheapest-cars-sale-2022
Bullshit. I used to own a Dacia Sandero. It was £6K. The 4WD version my father still owns, the Duster, that was £10K.
A couple million people a year buy BMWs that you describe as \"not a sensible car\" so Im sure many would disagree with you.
They\'re morons. BMW hasn\'t even invented FWD yet. And they\'re no better than a VW, at a fraction of the price.
Range is just not an issue for most drivers although it does take a different mindset from the traditional don\'t fill up until empty approach of conventional vehicles.
It\'s a problem for every single driver. Most people do not drive 2 miles to the post office. By the way that range drops like a stone as the battery ages. My petrol tank doesn\'t age.
When the fuel cost is included electric cars competitive on price even with average cars like a Toyota Camry. The average new car cost in the US has risen to about $47,000. The cost of a base Tesla Model 3 is $46,990.
WTF are you doing paying $47K for a petrol car? I could buy 6 cars for that.

You could not buy 6 new cars for $47k. And most people don\'t just buy the bare minimum car as can be seen from the average price. You also can\'t meaningfully compare radically dissimilar cars as much of the cost is not just in the propulsion system.
I\'m comparing the cheapest car I can get that will do a sensible range on petrol or electricity.
The absence of regular servicing is very convenient - I have had mine for just about 4 years and it hasn\'t been to the dealer once. Whereas my Prius has required 8 services in that time according to the manual.
Ignore the manual. Take the car to the garage when it goes wrong.

No oil changes?
No.

No brake checking.

If the car stops when I press the pedal, why would it need checked?
What about mandatory smog or MOT tests - do you ignore those as well?
Not exactly, but you can bend them a bit.
The cost and energy requirement to manufacture the batteries continues to drop - it is below $100 per kWh now from many times that ten years ago.
Then I will wait another 10 years.
That\'s your privilege.
It\'s called common sense. People who buy new tech are fools that fund it for the rest of us.

I bought an expensive car because it\'s what I wanted. I could have bought a model 3 for $35,000 and would already have saved $4,000 on fuel expenses. In another six years I\'ll have saved $10,000, bringing the effective price to $25,000 and still dropping. I drove my last vehicle 250,000 miles. That would equate to $25,000 savings making the Tesla model 3 effectively a $10,000 car. Yeah, and it\'s such a nicer car to drive than a Romanian Yugo replacement.

I have bought a £500 car that has lasted 5 years so far.....

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 5:04:22 PM UTC+10, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Sun, 15 May 2022 06:10:59 +0100, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 11:59:20 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 15 May 2022 01:06:28 +0100, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 10:36:15 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 14 May 2022 03:18:40 +0100, ke...@kjwdesigns.com <ke...@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:
On Thursday, 12 May 2022 at 08:38:18 UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 12 May 2022 07:32:34 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:


You are an ignoramus because you want to compare high end electric cars to the world\'s cheapest ICE car that very few people buy.
No, I want to compare cars with the same range. Most electric cars have un-unusable range.

So nobody ever buys them.

> > In your ignorant mind this is a reasonable comparison, like the guy who bitches about BEVs

Battery Electric Vehicles

never being practical because he only buys old, used cars for $5,000 or less, as if there will never be a used BEV at that price.
I actually compared new cars above, do pay attention at the back.

But not a new car that you can now buy in the UK.

No one cares if I insult an ignoramus, especially god. In fact, I probably earn bonus points.

But what if you\'re incorrect in your estimation of my ignoramity?

He may well underestimate it. You are clearly ignorant enough to earn him bonus points. The only question is how many.

--
Bill Sloman,Sydney

 

[whit3rd]

On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 10:26:57 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:

> As Lithium runs out, the prices will skyrocket.

Nonsense, but of course someone selling you an investment opportunity won\'t tell
you that.

Lithium is mined from dried-up sea beds, because some of the dried salts have useful
concentrations of that element There\'s lots of those, and the most economic are being
mined now, while the next-most-economic will be mined in a decade. The metal isn\'t
rare, and the price will disappoint investors who buy today at a big premium.

 

[Ricky]

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 1:26:57 AM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Sun, 15 May 2022 01:46:22 +0100, ke...@kjwdesigns.com <ke...@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:

On Friday, 13 May 2022 at 19:43:51 UTC-7, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 7:18:45 PM UTC-7, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
The cost and energy requirement to manufacture the batteries continues to drop - it is below $100 per kWh now from many times that ten years ago.
I don\'t think the Tesla (50kWh) battery cost below $5000.

Probably not but the battery costs are declining and like likely to go further (albeit with blips caused by current world problems)

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1134307_report-ev-battery-costs-might-rise-in-2022
As Lithium runs out, the prices will skyrocket. And what world problems? There aren\'t any real ones, just ones caused by silly governments.

This guy just digs himself in a hole, deeper and deeper, showing his extreme ignorance.

He reminds me of DLUNU or whatever goofy name the guy goes by. I think people call him \"always wrong\". I think there\'s a new owner of that title.

--

Rick C.

-+--- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+--- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 11:04:30 PM UTC+10, Ricky wrote:

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 1:26:57 AM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 15 May 2022 01:46:22 +0100, ke...@kjwdesigns.com <ke...@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:

On Friday, 13 May 2022 at 19:43:51 UTC-7, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 7:18:45 PM UTC-7, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
The cost and energy requirement to manufacture the batteries continues to drop - it is below $100 per kWh now from many times that ten years ago.
I don\'t think the Tesla (50kWh) battery cost below $5000.

Probably not but the battery costs are declining and like likely to go further (albeit with blips caused by current world problems)

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1134307_report-ev-battery-costs-might-rise-in-2022
As Lithium runs out, the prices will skyrocket. And what world problems? There aren\'t any real ones, just ones caused by silly governments.
This guy just digs himself in a hole, deeper and deeper, showing his extreme ignorance.

He reminds me of DLUNU or whatever goofy name the guy goes by. I think people call him \"always wrong\". I think there\'s a new owner of that title.

Decadent Linux User Numero Uno has his vices, but ignorance isn\'t one of them. Krw liked to label him \"always wrong\" but the tittle fitted krw a whole lot better.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[StupidAs StupidGet]

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 6:55:38 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 11:04:30 PM UTC+10, Ricky wrote:
On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 1:26:57 AM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 15 May 2022 01:46:22 +0100, ke...@kjwdesigns.com <ke...@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:

On Friday, 13 May 2022 at 19:43:51 UTC-7, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 7:18:45 PM UTC-7, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
The cost and energy requirement to manufacture the batteries continues to drop - it is below $100 per kWh now from many times that ten years ago.
I don\'t think the Tesla (50kWh) battery cost below $5000.

Probably not but the battery costs are declining and like likely to go further (albeit with blips caused by current world problems)

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1134307_report-ev-battery-costs-might-rise-in-2022
As Lithium runs out, the prices will skyrocket. And what world problems? There aren\'t any real ones, just ones caused by silly governments.
This guy just digs himself in a hole, deeper and deeper, showing his extreme ignorance.

He reminds me of DLUNU or whatever goofy name the guy goes by. I think people call him \"always wrong\". I think there\'s a new owner of that title.
Decadent Linux User Numero Uno has his vices, but ignorance isn\'t one of them. Krw liked to label him \"always wrong\" but the tittle fitted krw a whole lot better.

Don\'t know if he is \"always wrong\", but he is \"always foul month nasty scumbag\".

 

[Ricky]

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 11:42:28 AM UTC-4, StupidAs StupidGet wrote:

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 6:55:38 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 11:04:30 PM UTC+10, Ricky wrote:
On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 1:26:57 AM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 15 May 2022 01:46:22 +0100, ke...@kjwdesigns.com <ke...@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:

On Friday, 13 May 2022 at 19:43:51 UTC-7, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 7:18:45 PM UTC-7, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
The cost and energy requirement to manufacture the batteries continues to drop - it is below $100 per kWh now from many times that ten years ago.
I don\'t think the Tesla (50kWh) battery cost below $5000.

Probably not but the battery costs are declining and like likely to go further (albeit with blips caused by current world problems)

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1134307_report-ev-battery-costs-might-rise-in-2022
As Lithium runs out, the prices will skyrocket. And what world problems? There aren\'t any real ones, just ones caused by silly governments.
This guy just digs himself in a hole, deeper and deeper, showing his extreme ignorance.

He reminds me of DLUNU or whatever goofy name the guy goes by. I think people call him \"always wrong\". I think there\'s a new owner of that title.
Decadent Linux User Numero Uno has his vices, but ignorance isn\'t one of them. Krw liked to label him \"always wrong\" but the tittle fitted krw a whole lot better.
Don\'t know if he is \"always wrong\", but he is \"always foul month nasty scumbag\".

Yeah, well, he\'s not exactly unique in that regard. Phil A. is pretty creative at times. The rest of the time he\'s just a foul mouthed moron.

 

[Flyguy]

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 5:50:55 PM UTC-7, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:

On Tuesday, 17 May 2022 at 12:10:26 UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
Using a jillion tiny cells makes a difference because if any of those cells
fail, the whole car explodes and kills the driver.
That is not true. The car is very unlikely to explode if a single cell fails. Even if multiple cells fail an explosion is also extremely unlikely.

From the NTHSA report - \"Lithium-ion Battery Safety Issues for Electric and Plug-in Hybrid Vehicles\".

\"Regarding the risk of electrochemical failure, the report concludes that the propensity and severity of fires and explosions from the accidental ignition of flammable electrolytic solvents used in Li-ion battery systems are anticipated to be somewhat comparable to or perhaps slightly less than those for gasoline or diesel vehicular fuels.\"
https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/documents/12848-lithiumionsafetyhybrids_101217-v3-tag.pdf

A cell can overheat under exceptional circumstances but a small cell may in actual fact be safer than larger ones as the energy of a single cell failure might be contained within its own steel container and not affect the rest of the battery to the point of failure. The fuse or other disconnect for the cell would electrically isolate the failed cell from the rest of the battery. If the cell breaches its own enclosure it could spread the failure to other cells.

kw

They can \"anticipate\" until the cows come home. What that boils down to is an uneducated guess. Until you have decades of data to analyze you are just blowing smoke. Just look at airline accidents; the B747 had decades of flight experience when TWA flight 800 exploded. And these planes undergo far more rigorous testing and evaluation than EVs do.

 

[ke...@kjwdesigns.com]

On Sunday, 15 May 2022 at 00:04:22 UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
....

Then there is the issue that you are only talking about purchase price, not the life cycle cost. That\'s the talk of an ignoramus.
If you want to go that route, electric cars have that annoying habit of needing a new battery.

No they don\'t - no more than conventional cars need new engines.

....

kw

 

[Ricky]

On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 1:38:46 AM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 5:50:55 PM UTC-7, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
On Tuesday, 17 May 2022 at 12:10:26 UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
Using a jillion tiny cells makes a difference because if any of those cells
fail, the whole car explodes and kills the driver.
That is not true. The car is very unlikely to explode if a single cell fails. Even if multiple cells fail an explosion is also extremely unlikely.

From the NTHSA report - \"Lithium-ion Battery Safety Issues for Electric and Plug-in Hybrid Vehicles\".

\"Regarding the risk of electrochemical failure, the report concludes that the propensity and severity of fires and explosions from the accidental ignition of flammable electrolytic solvents used in Li-ion battery systems are anticipated to be somewhat comparable to or perhaps slightly less than those for gasoline or diesel vehicular fuels.\"
https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/documents/12848-lithiumionsafetyhybrids_101217-v3-tag.pdf

A cell can overheat under exceptional circumstances but a small cell may in actual fact be safer than larger ones as the energy of a single cell failure might be contained within its own steel container and not affect the rest of the battery to the point of failure. The fuse or other disconnect for the cell would electrically isolate the failed cell from the rest of the battery. If the cell breaches its own enclosure it could spread the failure to other cells.

kw
They can \"anticipate\" until the cows come home. What that boils down to is an uneducated guess. Until you have decades of data to analyze you are just blowing smoke. Just look at airline accidents; the B747 had decades of flight experience when TWA flight 800 exploded. And these planes undergo far more rigorous testing and evaluation than EVs do.

You would seem to be blowing smoke as much as anyone. In the case of TWA flight 800, a fatal airliner accident due to design or construction issues is a very infrequent thing. These causes are much easier to minimize failure rates than the operational issues.

The bottom line is lithium-ion batteries are proving to be very safe in BEVs. The failures rates are comparable to the failure rates of fossil fueled vehicles which do burst into flame spontaneously as well. We are simply less worried by the relatively infrequent incidents which are dwarfed by the accident rates of automobiles caused by the operators. BEV issues get a lot of visibility, but are actually less likely.

You didn\'t anticipate that, did you?

--

Rick C.

-++-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-++-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209