Suspected phone tap

[Long Ranger]

<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote in message
news:fcssr3976os16c2chbotoe0j0l8hgisecf@4ax.com...

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:35:30 -0800, "Long Ranger" <lorpkins@earthlink
.net> wrote:

If someone can pull off a phone tap, then they are probably reading what
you
write here. If I thought I was being tapped, I would have a phony
conversation with a partner about something of interest to the people I
thought tapped my line. Then I would look for a reaction to it. For
instance, if I thought it was the police, I might arrange a phony dope
transaction, complete with packages being exchanged.

You are putting a lot of trust in the cops not to actually "find" some
real dope when they arrest you.

If they are really looking at you hard enough to get a legal tap they
have other things that constitute "probable cause" for the warrant. If
it is an illegal tap, they are by definition rogue cops. Who knows
what they will do.

I agree. I can't babysit the whole scenario for this guy though. I would
take pains to have an airtight situation. Perhaps some cameras, and / or
extra witnesses? A lot of details, but worth it if I truly thought I was
being tapped like that. I once had a notion that my ex had somehow bugged my
phone. (She's a member of our local PD.) I never did prove it to my
satisfaction either way, and I may have been wrong anyway. By the time I
formulated a plan, the suspicious incidents had stopped. I still don't trust
talking on my phone for certain things.

 

[Foxtrot]

On Fri 22 Feb 2008 05:35:30, Long Ranger wrote:

If someone can pull off a phone tap, then they are probably reading
what you write here. If I thought I was being tapped, I would have
a phony conversation with a partner about something of interest to
the people I thought tapped my line. Then I would look for a
reaction to it. For instance, if I thought it was the police, I
might arrange a phony dope transaction, complete with packages
being exchanged.

What you write sounds as if it would normally work but sadly in this
case it is not going to be if use.

I have already seen how the other side leaks absolutely nothing.

They observe and they learn and, when the time comes up, they use what
they know. But they never say what they know. No bluffs, feigns,
intimidations or any of that.

It can be quite scary to observe them in action when it is then clear
just how much they knew all along but by then they have made their move.

 

[Long Ranger]

"Foxtrot" <foxtrot@demo.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xns9A4CAFACC532FD712E3@127.0.0.1...

On Fri 22 Feb 2008 05:35:30, Long Ranger wrote:

If someone can pull off a phone tap, then they are probably reading
what you write here. If I thought I was being tapped, I would have
a phony conversation with a partner about something of interest to
the people I thought tapped my line. Then I would look for a
reaction to it. For instance, if I thought it was the police, I
might arrange a phony dope transaction, complete with packages
being exchanged.


What you write sounds as if it would normally work but sadly in this
case it is not going to be if use.

I have already seen how the other side leaks absolutely nothing.

They observe and they learn and, when the time comes up, they use what
they know. But they never say what they know. No bluffs, feigns,
intimidations or any of that.

It can be quite scary to observe them in action when it is then clear
just how much they knew all along but by then they have made their move.

RIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT.

 

[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]

Long Ranger wrote:

If someone can pull off a phone tap, then they are probably reading what you
write here. If I thought I was being tapped, I would have a phony
conversation with a partner about something of interest to the people I
thought tapped my line. Then I would look for a reaction to it. For
instance, if I thought it was the police, I might arrange a phony dope
transaction, complete with packages being exchanged.

It depends on who is tapping your line and why.

If its the cops, they may (or may not) take the bait. If its industrial
espionage (someone stealing customers, for example), you will have a
much more difficult time finding out. It the latter case, their
subsequent behavior based on information obtained isn't immediately
available to you.

--
Paul Hovnanian paul@hovnanian.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Procrastinators: The leaders for tomorrow.

 

[Palindrome]

Benj wrote:

On Feb 19, 11:24 am, Palindrome <m...@privacy.net> wrote:

No, I didn't. Benj just isn't very good at snipping posts to keep the
necessary attribution in place.. I wrote none of the following:

I wonder if a tap which juts picks up the signal modulation on a line
but does not interrupt it can be detected at all.

No, it can't.

Can I perform any checks?
Can I ask VM to do any checks?

Visually inspect lines. Be suspicious of "repairmen" doing things to
line. The usual.

As I am dealing with some odd folks, I would like to have the line
checked regularly but would VirginMedia be prepared to do this?

There is not much they can do. And probably even less they will do.

The bottom line of all communication services is that basically they
are public forums like taking a two page spread in the New York
(London) times. People get really lax about thinking their
conversations are "private". They think that there are laws that
"protect" them. All this is totally false.

Unless you are using "unbreakable encryption" [and this gear is NOT
presently available even though easy to build, and even if it were
were available it would soon be made illegal by the government] you
should ALWAYS consider telephones of ANY type as well as and
ESPECIALLY all email and other internet communications as totally
public. Put a sign by your phone that says "This line leads to the
Times" to remind yourself.

If you have something private to say to someone, go take a nice walk
in the woods. And Oh yeah, go naked!
Welcome to Big Brother.

 

[Bernie]

On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 01:04:55 -0800, Benj wrote:

On Feb 19, 5:51 pm, Salmon Egg <Salmon...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

As I am dealing with some odd folks, I would like to have the line
checked regularly but would VirginMedia be prepared to do this?

I depends on how it is done. If I wanted to tap a phone undetectably, I
would just use a hook on magnetic core like is used for hook-on
ammeters. The secondary winding would run into a low impedance (current)
amplifier.

That is PRIMITIVE technology. Even OLD technology only needs a sensitive
magnetic coil to be simply placed NEAR any of the wires bearing the calls.
Could be literally anywhere. We are talking tube era technology. Today a
tiny microchip could be stuck to the wire at any point and would be easily
accessed remotely by satellite or radio. You haven't a prayer to find
this. Just assume every thing said on the phone goes right to all the
wrong people automatically.

He's probably been implanted anyway so everything he says will get
straight back to the perps no matter what ;-)

 

[Benj]

On Feb 19, 11:24 am, Palindrome <m...@privacy.net> wrote:

I wonder if a tap which juts picks up the signal modulation on a line
but does not interrupt it can be detected at all.

No, it can't.

Can I perform any checks?
Can I ask VM to do any checks?

Visually inspect lines. Be suspicious of "repairmen" doing things to
line. The usual.

As I am dealing with some odd folks, I would like to have the line
checked regularly but would VirginMedia be prepared to do this?

There is not much they can do. And probably even less they will do.

The bottom line of all communication services is that basically they
are public forums like taking a two page spread in the New York
(London) times. People get really lax about thinking their
conversations are "private". They think that there are laws that
"protect" them. All this is totally false.

Unless you are using "unbreakable encryption" [and this gear is NOT
presently available even though easy to build, and even if it were
were available it would soon be made illegal by the government] you
should ALWAYS consider telephones of ANY type as well as and
ESPECIALLY all email and other internet communications as totally
public. Put a sign by your phone that says "This line leads to the
Times" to remind yourself.

If you have something private to say to someone, go take a nice walk
in the woods. And Oh yeah, go naked!
Welcome to Big Brother.

 

[Benj]

On Feb 19, 12:37 pm, Theo Markettos <theom
+n...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

If the police/spooks are doing it, they'll do it in software at the
exchange so there'll be nothing to see.

http://spectrum.ieee.org/jul07/5280
documents one rather high-level recent case.

Note that thanks (in the Yoo Ess) to Bill Clinton's "crime bill",
telephone companies were mandated to supply a plug to government upon
which up to 1/3 of ALL CALLS MADE IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY can be
monitored simultaneously! Dubya has been wallowing in the data thanks
to the PATRIOT ACT. The renewal of same is a big issue right now in
Congress because telecoms are having a cow over the possibility of
being sued for making these mandatory taps for feds. No doubt soon
Congress will approve totally warrant-less wiretaps at random for
government "fishing expeditions" with total immunity for telecoms and
everyone will be happy as clams.

It's your Brave New World. Enjoy it.

[This public statement may be reprinted on the front page of any major
newspaper if so desired]

 

[Benj]

On Feb 19, 5:51 pm, Salmon Egg <Salmon...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

As I am dealing with some odd folks, I would like to have the line
checked regularly but would VirginMedia be prepared to do this?

I depends on how it is done. If I wanted to tap a phone undetectably, I
would just use a hook on magnetic core like is used for hook-on
ammeters. The secondary winding would run into a low impedance (current)
amplifier.

That is PRIMITIVE technology. Even OLD technology only needs a
sensitive magnetic coil to be simply placed NEAR any of the wires
bearing the calls. Could be literally anywhere. We are talking tube
era technology. Today a tiny microchip could be stuck to the wire at
any point and would be easily accessed remotely by satellite or radio.
You haven't a prayer to find this. Just assume every thing said on
the phone goes right to all the wrong people automatically.

 

[jasee]

Palindrome wrote:

Benj wrote:
On Feb 19, 11:24 am, Palindrome <m...@privacy.net> wrote:

No, I didn't. Benj just isn't very good at snipping posts to keep the
necessary attribution in place.. I wrote none of the following:

The attributes aren't there and he shouldn't have left you in, but by the
quote marks it's clear you didn't say anything he quoted.
Though not many people will nowadays appeciate that :-(

I wonder if a tap which juts picks up the signal modulation on a
line but does not interrupt it can be detected at all.

No, it can't.

Can I perform any checks?
Can I ask VM to do any checks?

Visually inspect lines. Be suspicious of "repairmen" doing things to
line. The usual.

As I am dealing with some odd folks, I would like to have the line
checked regularly but would VirginMedia be prepared to do this?

There is not much they can do. And probably even less they will do.

The bottom line of all communication services is that basically they
are public forums like taking a two page spread in the New York
(London) times. People get really lax about thinking their
conversations are "private". They think that there are laws that
"protect" them. All this is totally false.

Unless you are using "unbreakable encryption" [and this gear is NOT
presently available even though easy to build, and even if it were
were available it would soon be made illegal by the government] you
should ALWAYS consider telephones of ANY type as well as and
ESPECIALLY all email and other internet communications as totally
public. Put a sign by your phone that says "This line leads to the
Times" to remind yourself.

If you have something private to say to someone, go take a nice walk
in the woods. And Oh yeah, go naked!
Welcome to Big Brother.

 

[Ben Miller]

Ivor Jones wrote:

"Palindrome" <me9@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:R6Huj.229393$X76.37392@fe08.news.easynews.com

[snip]

It is possible to intercept digital cellphone traffic,
but decrypting it, without cloning the phone's key
(which needs physical access to the phone) is rather
more difficult than tapping a landline.

Read this article, posted elsewhere in this thread, to see how someone
recently did exactly that:

http://spectrum.ieee.org/jul07/5280


Ivor

I really enjoyed that article when it published in Spectrum. What they did
was amazing, although it went far beyond a simple tap on a phone! It is not
likely too many people could have pulled that off.


--
Benjamin D Miller, PE
www.bmillerengineering.com