Suspected phone tap

[Michael A. Terrell]

Clint Sharp wrote:

In message <R6Huj.229393$X76.37392@fe08.news.easynews.com>, Palindrome
me9@privacy.net> writes
It is possible to intercept digital cellphone traffic, but decrypting
it, without cloning the phone's key (which needs physical access to the
phone) is rather more difficult than tapping a landline.
Umm, sorry, nil points and misleading, you are MI5 and I claim my 5
pounds.

There are off air intercept systems available to people with the right
credentials and/or money that can decrypt the data real time. The system
manufacturers (Ericsson spring to mind for some reason ;-)) offer
intercept systems although I suspect you'd need to be very definitely
government/law enforcement to get one legally.

Or wait for one to turn up at a government auction. I picked up a
complete 911 phone logging system and all the 10.5" reels of tape for
next to nothing. I sold the recorders to a company that owned thousands
of pay phones to use when there was a court ordered tap on one of their
phones.




--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Foxtrot]

I have never been a conspiracy theorist but I suspect that a particular
group of people may try to tap my landline.

I am in the UK and access to my phone wires is quite easy because I live
in a block of flats. There are various oblong concrete covers for the
BT and VirginMedia lines to the flats.

Currently I use VirginMedia for phone service.

I wonder if a tap which juts picks up the signal modulation on a line
but does not interrupt it can be detected at all.

Can I perform any checks?
Can I ask VM to do any checks?

As I am dealing with some odd folks, I would like to have the line
checked regularly but would VirginMedia be prepared to do this?

 

[R. Mark Clayton]

Just ring a mate and tell him that you will swap the plutonium for the drugs
at Waterloo Station...

"Foxtrot" <foxtrot@demo.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xns9A49A0904EF5601A4D@127.0.0.1...

I have never been a conspiracy theorist but I suspect that a particular
group of people may try to tap my landline.

I am in the UK and access to my phone wires is quite easy because I live
in a block of flats. There are various oblong concrete covers for the
BT and VirginMedia lines to the flats.

Currently I use VirginMedia for phone service.

I wonder if a tap which juts picks up the signal modulation on a line
but does not interrupt it can be detected at all.

Can I perform any checks?
Can I ask VM to do any checks?

As I am dealing with some odd folks, I would like to have the line
checked regularly but would VirginMedia be prepared to do this?

 

[Bernie]

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 20:48:52 +0000, Clint Sharp wrote:

In message <fphpjl$htq$1@news.datemas.de>, Bernie <Bernie@the.bolt
writes
VM are now doing fibre optic deals - quite cheap, cheaper than coax - atm.
You get broadband and phone for less than 20/mnth.
Let's see your "friends" tap into that
Is it fibre to the home though? I thought it was just fibre to the
street cabinet and then coax to the home?

Well I had a word with VM about this over the phone (twisted pair -
*cough*) and they told me it was fibre optic into the house. I was
thinking of having it installed myself but for different reasons but
like you say it may be twisted cable on the last leg, these ntl
call centre lackies don't know their arse from their elbow. You'd have to
pursue it further for a definitive answer.

 

[Palindrome]

Clint Sharp wrote:

In message <R6Huj.229393$X76.37392@fe08.news.easynews.com>, Palindrome
me9@privacy.net> writes
It is possible to intercept digital cellphone traffic, but decrypting
it, without cloning the phone's key (which needs physical access to
the phone) is rather more difficult than tapping a landline.
Umm, sorry, nil points and misleading, you are MI5 and I claim my 5 pounds.

There are off air intercept systems available to people with the right
credentials and/or money that can decrypt the data real time. The system
manufacturers (Ericsson spring to mind for some reason ;-)) offer
intercept systems although I suspect you'd need to be very definitely
government/law enforcement to get one legally.

Best of all carrying a powered cell phone can locate you to under 100
metres depending on the number of cells that can 'see' you and a few
other factors (terrain, buildings etc.) It's been trialed and tested for
emergency services use in London with good results but then disappeared
without much discussion, wonder why that was!


Oh, it would be possible to locate the OP to within a few feet, at most.

I suggested using it /in his flat/ rather than use the landline.

As for the "people with the right credentials" - there is no suggestion
by the OP that such people are involved. For others, the only real
chance is to get hold of the phone and clone it.

And what you suggest is still far, far more difficult than tapping a
landline.

I presented a simple argument - that using a mobile phone instead of the
landline would be harder to tap. Which your words support - other than
the "nil points" rubbish.

--
Sue

 

[Clint Sharp]

In message <fphpjl$htq$1@news.datemas.de>, Bernie <Bernie@the.bolt>
writes

VM are now doing fibre optic deals - quite cheap, cheaper than coax - atm.
You get broadband and phone for less than 20/mnth.
Let's see your "friends" tap into that
Is it fibre to the home though? I thought it was just fibre to the

street cabinet and then coax to the home?
--
Clint Sharp

 

[Palindrome]

Foxtrot wrote:

I have never been a conspiracy theorist but I suspect that a particular
group of people may try to tap my landline.

I am in the UK and access to my phone wires is quite easy because I live
in a block of flats. There are various oblong concrete covers for the
BT and VirginMedia lines to the flats.

Currently I use VirginMedia for phone service.

I wonder if a tap which juts picks up the signal modulation on a line
but does not interrupt it can be detected at all.

Can I perform any checks?
Can I ask VM to do any checks?

As I am dealing with some odd folks, I would like to have the line
checked regularly but would VirginMedia be prepared to do this?

It is illegal to gain access to another person's telephone under Section
1 of the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 (RIPA). If you have
good reason to suspect that your calls are being intercepted, then
contact the police.

There are no meaningful checks that you can do, or VM would do. Other
than visually inspect whatever bits of your telephone line might be
accessible to you.

If you are worried, but don't think that you have enough evidence to go
to the police, then use a mobile phone or internet phone. Those are
rather more difficult for an unspecified group of people to intercept.

--
Sue

 

[Ron Lowe]

"Foxtrot" <foxtrot@demo.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xns9A49A0904EF5601A4D@127.0.0.1...

I have never been a conspiracy theorist but I suspect that a particular
group of people may try to tap my landline.

I am in the UK and access to my phone wires is quite easy because I live
in a block of flats. There are various oblong concrete covers for the
BT and VirginMedia lines to the flats.

Currently I use VirginMedia for phone service.

I wonder if a tap which juts picks up the signal modulation on a line
but does not interrupt it can be detected at all.

Can I perform any checks?
Can I ask VM to do any checks?

As I am dealing with some odd folks, I would like to have the line
checked regularly but would VirginMedia be prepared to do this?

If I felt the need of a secure phone system, I would set up a secure private
VoIP network.

At my end:
1) Set up an Asterisk server on my LAN;
2) Configure an IP phone to register with it;
3) Configure a secure VPN gateway to accept incoming connections.

At the other end(s):
1) Configure a VPN client box to establish a secure tunnel to my LAN's VPN
gateway;
2) Configure an IP phone to register with my asterisk box over the VPN.

If you choose a good enough VPN implimentation, then I think it would be
pretty secure.

If you want to be extra-paranoid, then....

If I was trying to hide from Government Agencies, I'd probably find an Open
Source VPN soloution which I was confident had no back doors. I'd not
trust a VPN box from ( for example ) a Big American Networking Corporation
not to have been leaned on to provide back-door access to their VPNs by the
American Security Services. After all, I'm talking about the kind of
corporations that are complicit with other unpleasant regimes in the world
to police their populations, in order to gain global market share. If
they're prepared to roll over for foreign governments, then I have no doubt
they would be even more complicit with their domestic security services.

But perhaps I'm being paranoid, and need to adjust my tinfoil hat

--
Ron

 

[Clint Sharp]

In message <R6Huj.229393$X76.37392@fe08.news.easynews.com>, Palindrome
<me9@privacy.net> writes

It is possible to intercept digital cellphone traffic, but decrypting
it, without cloning the phone's key (which needs physical access to the
phone) is rather more difficult than tapping a landline.
Umm, sorry, nil points and misleading, you are MI5 and I claim my 5

pounds.

There are off air intercept systems available to people with the right
credentials and/or money that can decrypt the data real time. The system
manufacturers (Ericsson spring to mind for some reason ;-)) offer
intercept systems although I suspect you'd need to be very definitely
government/law enforcement to get one legally.

Best of all carrying a powered cell phone can locate you to under 100
metres depending on the number of cells that can 'see' you and a few
other factors (terrain, buildings etc.) It's been trialed and tested for
emergency services use in London with good results but then disappeared
without much discussion, wonder why that was!

--
Sue

--
Clint Sharp

 

[Floyd L. Davidson]

Adrian <adrian_h_hudson@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Feb 19, 12:26 pm, fl...@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:
Palindrome <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
Palindrome <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
Foxtrot wrote:
I have never been a conspiracy theorist but I suspect
that a particular group of people may try to tap my
landline.
I am in the UK and access to my phone wires is quite
easy because I live in a block of flats.   There are
various oblong concrete covers for the BT and
VirginMedia lines to the flats.
Currently I use VirginMedia for phone service.
I wonder if a tap which juts picks up the signal
modulation on a line but does not interrupt it can be
detected at all.
Can I perform any checks?  Can I ask VM to do any
checks?
As I am dealing with some odd folks, I would like to
have the line checked regularly but would VirginMedia
be prepared to do this?

It is illegal to gain access to another person's telephone under Section
1 of the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 (RIPA). If you have
good reason to suspect that your calls are being intercepted, then
contact the police.

There are no meaningful checks that you can do, or VM would do. Other
than visually inspect whatever bits of your telephone line might be
accessible to you.

If you are worried, but don't think that you have enough evidence to go
to the police, then use a mobile phone or internet phone. Those are
rather more difficult for an unspecified group of people to intercept.
They are even easier.  Don't do it.

They aren't easier for "unspecified groups of people" to do. Government
agencies and others authorised to intercept communications are very well
"specified".

It actually is easier, even for "unspecified groups".

Funniest damned thing I ever saw was a story printed on
the front page of a newspaper giving a verbatim
transcript of a cell phone call where a guy admited to
committing murder.  The newspaper had what amounted to
an illegal wiretap.  They were never so much as
investigated, if for no other reason that the police
*also* had an illegal wiretap on the same call!

mmmm. Sounds like the LA Times in 1984. The story concerned a
certain sports personality! A jury of his peers still found him "not
guilty".

That one turned out a little different. The fellow was
convicted, and will never get out.

--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com

 

[Floyd L. Davidson]

Foxtrot <foxtrot@demo.invalid> wrote:

I have never been a conspiracy theorist but I suspect that a particular
group of people may try to tap my landline.

I am in the UK and access to my phone wires is quite easy because I live
in a block of flats. There are various oblong concrete covers for the
BT and VirginMedia lines to the flats.

Currently I use VirginMedia for phone service.

I wonder if a tap which juts picks up the signal modulation on a line
but does not interrupt it can be detected at all.

Can I perform any checks?
Can I ask VM to do any checks?

As I am dealing with some odd folks, I would like to have the line
checked regularly but would VirginMedia be prepared to do this?

Let me give you some advice... but first you need also
to know what my qualifications are to provide that
advice: I worked in the telecommunications industry for
34 years, and retired 6 years ago. I have had the
(mis)fortune of setting up legal and illegal wiretaps.
I have also had the experience of having my work phone
tapped illegally. All of that of course was in the US,
hence I will not attempt to give you advice about
specifics or the legal status, because I simply don't
know how any of it would apply to you.

Here's what I have known since perhaps a month after I
began working in the industry: Do *NOT* *EVER* say
anything on a telephone that you cannot tolerate being
printed on the front page of the local newspaper the
next day.

Take that serious. It applies to your personal life.
It applies to your business. It applies if you are a
criminal, or if you are a judge.

If you cannot tolerate something being in the newspaper,
find a different way to communicate it to the people you
need to exchange that information with. DO NOT USE A
TELEPHONE.

--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com

 

[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]

"Floyd L. Davidson" wrote:

"Paul Hovnanian P.E." <paulh@seanet.com> wrote:
"R. Mark Clayton" wrote:

Just ring a mate and tell him that you will swap the plutonium for the drugs
at Waterloo Station...

Be sure to throw in "Allah Akbar" a few times.

;-)

I had a guy quite seriously ask me (5-6) years ago if it
was possible that his phone line was being tapped. He'd
heard strange sounds... I laughed and told him if it
was, he'd never know it.

Of course then we got into a discussion of what would
cause his line to be tapped... His son was married to a
Chinese lady who happened at the moment to be in
Indonesia. He was a 747 pilot flying into Afganistan
and Iraq, with a long history of employment by the
Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

I assured him he cannot make an international call
without it being listened to by someone!

When I was a kid, my dad was involved with some pretty serious DoD work.
I suspect that anyone with his clearance had their phone tapped (and
other things as well). They aren't so much worried about his conducting
illicit business over the phone as they are about the possibility of
blackmail by foreign intelligence forces.

That never happened, but we did have a guy in the neighborhood who had a
screw loose. He wasn't above making strange phone calls to various
people, but when we got one, I think it ws his last. The FBI looked into
it and suddenly the nut-case mellowed out considerably. ;-)

--
Paul Hovnanian paul@hovnanian.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Procrastinators: The leaders for tomorrow.

 

[Adrian]

On Feb 19, 12:26 pm, fl...@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:

Palindrome <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
Palindrome <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
Foxtrot wrote:
I have never been a conspiracy theorist but I suspect
that a particular group of people may try to tap my
landline.
I am in the UK and access to my phone wires is quite
easy because I live in a block of flats.   There are
various oblong concrete covers for the BT and
VirginMedia lines to the flats.
Currently I use VirginMedia for phone service.
I wonder if a tap which juts picks up the signal
modulation on a line but does not interrupt it can be
detected at all.
Can I perform any checks?  Can I ask VM to do any
checks?
As I am dealing with some odd folks, I would like to
have the line checked regularly but would VirginMedia
be prepared to do this?

It is illegal to gain access to another person's telephone under Section
1 of the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 (RIPA). If you have
good reason to suspect that your calls are being intercepted, then
contact the police.

There are no meaningful checks that you can do, or VM would do. Other
than visually inspect whatever bits of your telephone line might be
accessible to you.

If you are worried, but don't think that you have enough evidence to go
to the police, then use a mobile phone or internet phone. Those are
rather more difficult for an unspecified group of people to intercept.
They are even easier.  Don't do it.

They aren't easier for "unspecified groups of people" to do. Government
agencies and others authorised to intercept communications are very well
"specified".

It actually is easier, even for "unspecified groups".

Funniest damned thing I ever saw was a story printed on
the front page of a newspaper giving a verbatim
transcript of a cell phone call where a guy admited to
committing murder.  The newspaper had what amounted to
an illegal wiretap.  They were never so much as
investigated, if for no other reason that the police
*also* had an illegal wiretap on the same call!

--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)              fl...@apaflo.com

mmmm. Sounds like the LA Times in 1984. The story concerned a
certain sports personality! A jury of his peers still found him "not
guilty".

 

[Bernie]

On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 15:47:02 +0000, Foxtrot wrote:

I have never been a conspiracy theorist but I suspect that a particular
group of people may try to tap my landline.

I am in the UK and access to my phone wires is quite easy because I live
in a block of flats. There are various oblong concrete covers for the
BT and VirginMedia lines to the flats.

Currently I use VirginMedia for phone service.

I wonder if a tap which juts picks up the signal modulation on a line
but does not interrupt it can be detected at all.

Can I perform any checks?
Can I ask VM to do any checks?

As I am dealing with some odd folks, I would like to have the line
checked regularly but would VirginMedia be prepared to do this?

VM are now doing fibre optic deals - quite cheap, cheaper than coax - atm.
You get broadband and phone for less than 20/mnth.
Let's see your "friends" tap into that

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Jim wrote:
(snip)

The VM cabinet around the corner from my home has been unlocked for over
a year (with the door simply wedged shut), despite having been
reported. It would be simple enough to gain access to any line going
through it, or even to jumper it to another subscriber's cable (they
usually have a spare pair). I ceased my service with them a while ago!
(snip)

I have had three occasions in past where my phone line was bridged to
the premises of another subscriber. Once in an apartment where due to a
remodeling error, the neighboring apartment had a phone jack accessible
to my circuits. He used the line freely making toll calls. Next I had a
house in the back woods of Tallahassee where the circuits were poor. A
couple of times the phone repairmen bridged my circuit with a neighbors
looking for a "good pair". This last time a neighbor moved into a vacant
residence near mine, plugged in her phone and had instant service, on MY
line. The phone repairman volunteered that the documentation was very poor.

The cabinets and pedestals in this neighborhood are unlocked and often
left open to the elements.

--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"Š

"Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

"Follow The Money" ;-P

 

[Jim]

Foxtrot wrote:

I have never been a conspiracy theorist but I suspect that a particular
group of people may try to tap my landline.

I am in the UK and access to my phone wires is quite easy because I live
in a block of flats. There are various oblong concrete covers for the
BT and VirginMedia lines to the flats.

Currently I use VirginMedia for phone service.

I wonder if a tap which juts picks up the signal modulation on a line
but does not interrupt it can be detected at all.

Can I perform any checks?
Can I ask VM to do any checks?

As I am dealing with some odd folks, I would like to have the line
checked regularly but would VirginMedia be prepared to do this?

The VM cabinet around the corner from my home has been
unlocked for over a year (with the door simply wedged
shut), despite having been reported. It would be
simple enough to gain access to any line going through
it, or even to jumper it to another subscriber's cable
(they usually have a spare pair). I ceased my
service with them a while ago!

In theory such a tap is often detectable, but the VM
copper circuits usually only travel between the
customer premises and the street cabinets - it's fibre
from there to the exchange, so an electrical exchange
test isn't possible.

If the suspected surveillance is "official" (and that
can cover a great range of organisations in the UK),
then of course they'd have no need for such low-tech
methods.

 

[Floyd L. Davidson]

John Tserkezis <jt@techniciansyndrome.org.invalid> wrote:

Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

Why would anyone do an analog wiretap?

It's cheap, easy, fast, and convenient for those who want to tap a line
without going through the official legal channels, red tape and associated
paperwork that would usually stop you anyway.

It's dumb. Too easy to get caught.

--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com

 

[John Tserkezis]

Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

Why would anyone do an analog wiretap?

It's cheap, easy, fast, and convenient for those who want to tap a line
without going through the official legal channels, red tape and associated
paperwork that would usually stop you anyway.
--
Linux Registered User # 302622
<http://counter.li.org>

 

[Floyd L. Davidson]

"Paul Hovnanian P.E." <paulh@seanet.com> wrote:

"R. Mark Clayton" wrote:

Just ring a mate and tell him that you will swap the plutonium for the drugs
at Waterloo Station...

Be sure to throw in "Allah Akbar" a few times.

;-)

I had a guy quite seriously ask me (5-6) years ago if it
was possible that his phone line was being tapped. He'd
heard strange sounds... I laughed and told him if it
was, he'd never know it.

Of course then we got into a discussion of what would
cause his line to be tapped... His son was married to a
Chinese lady who happened at the moment to be in
Indonesia. He was a 747 pilot flying into Afganistan
and Iraq, with a long history of employment by the
Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

I assured him he cannot make an international call
without it being listened to by someone!

--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com

 

[Floyd L. Davidson]

phil-news-nospam@ipal.net wrote:

In alt.engineering.electrical Floyd L. Davidson <floyd@apaflo.com> wrote:
| phil-news-nospam@ipal.net wrote:
|>In alt.engineering.electrical PeterD <peter2@hipson.net> wrote:
|>| Properly done taps are virtually impossible to detect.
|
|>Improperly done taps could be detected by means of a loss of signal or a
|>reflection signal coming back. A well done tap would capture a miniscule
|>level of signal via high impedance loading, and there is no way to see
|>that by any means. What little reflection it might have would pale in
|>comparison to the typical reflections along the wire at various patch
|>panels and such. So you wouldn't know it was there.
|
| Why would anyone do an analog wiretap?

They would if the line is analog. But even if digital, a poor tap can
still be detected by using a TDR which would be pushing an analog signal
on the wire and watching what comes back.

All telephone lines terminate in digital switching systems.

TDR cannot detect a digital tap.

--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com