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Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 10/02/2017 7:44 PM, F Murtz wrote:
Je�us wrote:
On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 17:23:24 +1100, F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com
wrote:
Je?us wrote:
On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 14:57:51 +1100, F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com
wrote:
Je?us wrote:
On Thu, 9 Feb 2017 21:52:04 +1100, F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com
wrote:
This SA green power supply works well does not it?
Where does the 'SA Greenies' or 'green' fit into the picture?
The greenies have made a system that relies on wind power etc, have
shut
down a coal fired generator and rely on other states for backup
and if
the wind does not blow or they have a storm that damages things
their
setup does not work well.
So, who are these 'greenies' you speak of?
The south Australian government is inclined to greenie views and is
attempting to run their power supply along green lines and it is not
working so far.
You sure they're not commies too?
No, just inclined to green views,so far it has cost SA the most
expensive and unreliable power system in Aus .
**Far from it. That honour belongs to Tasmania.
Tasmania is not the most expensive SA is
On 10/02/2017 10:06 PM, Fran Snortilus wrote:
On 10/02/2017 5:26 PM, F Murtz wrote:
Fran Snortilus wrote:
On 10/02/2017 12:42 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 9/02/2017 9:52 PM, F Murtz wrote:
This SA green power supply works well does not it?
It's not helping us in NSW, with the AEMO warning of rolling blackouts
later today as people return home from work and turn on air
conditioners
just as the solar panel output is dropping because the sun is going
down.
And that is part of the problem. People who can't cope without air con
and other than
reliance on such a fragile thing.
Let us go back to the old days where the old and infirm died because
they don't have any other strategy for coping with heat
READ the thread! People coming home from work and turning on their air
con WILL NOT BE THE OLD OR THE INFIRM you twit!
The old and infirm are the only ones who should be allowed to turn on
their aircon in the current situation.
The only reason we have a problem is that people run air-conditioners.
If only the old and infirm ran them then we'd have plenty of generation
capacity.
Except that if that were the practice in the past, the generation
capacity to cope wouldn't have been built, and we'd simply have the same
problem but with less comfort.
There's no reason we, as consumers, should have to manage with less
power than we want to consume.
government to ensure that enough capacity exists, either by adjusting
the market parameters to encourage the construction of sufficient
capacity, or, as a last resort, constructing that capacity themselves.
The alternative is that those who can afford to do so will install
backup power systems, and those who cannot will suffer outages. That's
hardly an equitable result.
I'm a bit sceptical as to whether the market can really handle this on
its own, because having enough capacity for the extreme events implies
having capacity that's very rarely used. People build generators to earn
a profit, and it's hard to determine whether a profit can be made when
the requirement for the capacity is so rare.
It maybe that the only way is for the government to build generators
that it guarantees will sit idle except for the occasions when the spot
electricity price reaches its maximum allowed value (currently $14 per
kWh) and there is still insufficient capacity. The cost of that would,
of course, ultimately have to be born by consumers.
Sylvia.
On 11/02/2017 12:49 PM, F Murtz wrote:
Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 10/02/2017 7:44 PM, F Murtz wrote:
Je�us wrote:
On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 17:23:24 +1100, F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com
wrote:
Je?us wrote:
On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 14:57:51 +1100, F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com
wrote:
Je?us wrote:
On Thu, 9 Feb 2017 21:52:04 +1100, F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com
wrote:
This SA green power supply works well does not it?
Where does the 'SA Greenies' or 'green' fit into the picture?
The greenies have made a system that relies on wind power etc, have
shut
down a coal fired generator and rely on other states for backup
and if
the wind does not blow or they have a storm that damages things
their
setup does not work well.
So, who are these 'greenies' you speak of?
The south Australian government is inclined to greenie views and is
attempting to run their power supply along green lines and it is not
working so far.
You sure they're not commies too?
No, just inclined to green views,so far it has cost SA the most
expensive and unreliable power system in Aus .
**Far from it. That honour belongs to Tasmania.
Tasmania is not the most expensive SA is
**I was referring to the unreliable part.
No mention of those providing Solar power during peak demand times?
On 10/02/2017 10:06 PM, Fran Snortilus wrote:
On 10/02/2017 5:26 PM, F Murtz wrote:
Fran Snortilus wrote:
On 10/02/2017 12:42 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 9/02/2017 9:52 PM, F Murtz wrote:
This SA green power supply works well does not it?
It's not helping us in NSW, with the AEMO warning of rolling blackouts
later today as people return home from work and turn on air
conditioners
just as the solar panel output is dropping because the sun is going
down.
And that is part of the problem. People who can't cope without air con
and other than
reliance on such a fragile thing.
Let us go back to the old days where the old and infirm died because
they don't have any other strategy for coping with heat
READ the thread! People coming home from work and turning on their air
con WILL NOT BE THE OLD OR THE INFIRM you twit!
The old and infirm are the only ones who should be allowed to turn on
their aircon in the current situation.
The only reason we have a problem is that people run air-conditioners.
If only the old and infirm ran them then we'd have plenty of generation
capacity.
Except that if that were the practice in the past, the generation
capacity to cope wouldn't have been built, and we'd simply have the same
problem but with less comfort.
There's no reason we, as consumers, should have to manage with less
power than we want to consume. It is the responsibility of the
government to ensure that enough capacity exists, either by adjusting
the market parameters to encourage the construction of sufficient
capacity, or, as a last resort, constructing that capacity themselves.
The alternative is that those who can afford to do so will install
backup power systems, and those who cannot will suffer outages. That's
hardly an equitable result.
I'm a bit sceptical as to whether the market can really handle this on
its own, because having enough capacity for the extreme events implies
having capacity that's very rarely used. People build generators to earn
a profit, and it's hard to determine whether a profit can be made when
the requirement for the capacity is so rare.
It maybe that the only way is for the government to build generators
that it guarantees will sit idle except for the occasions when the spot
electricity price reaches its maximum allowed value (currently $14 per
kWh) and there is still insufficient capacity. The cost of that would,
of course, ultimately have to be born by consumers.
Sylvia.
On 10/02/2017 7:44 PM, F Murtz wrote:
Je�us wrote:
On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 17:23:24 +1100, F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com
wrote:
Je?us wrote:
On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 14:57:51 +1100, F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com
wrote:
Je?us wrote:
On Thu, 9 Feb 2017 21:52:04 +1100, F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com
wrote:
This SA green power supply works well does not it?
Where does the 'SA Greenies' or 'green' fit into the picture?
The greenies have made a system that relies on wind power etc, have
shut
down a coal fired generator and rely on other states for backup
and if
the wind does not blow or they have a storm that damages things their
setup does not work well.
So, who are these 'greenies' you speak of?
The south Australian government is inclined to greenie views and is
attempting to run their power supply along green lines and it is not
working so far.
You sure they're not commies too?
No, just inclined to green views,so far it has cost SA the most
expensive and unreliable power system in Aus .
**Far from it. That honour belongs to Tasmania.
All this renewable energy is a good idea if worked up to slowly.
**Which is exactly what is happening.
In the interim things like much cleaner coal fired would fill the gap
till we work out renewables that work and are cost effective.
**There is no such thing as 'clean coal'. There is dirty coal and
slightly less dirty coal.
Modern reactors are probably the best at the moment but we are not
likely to go that way.
**Let us know where you are going to bury the radioactive by-products
for the next 20 million years (or only a tiny 24,000 years for
Plutonium). Of course, those figures are half-life ones. The danger
lasts for much longer. Whilst you are considering that, consider the
following:
* The oldest company or government on the planet is no more than a few
hundred years. How will you guarantee that all plutonium (one of the
most deadly substances on the planet) will be kept securely guarded for
the next 100,000 years? How much will that cost?
* The US has been generating nuclear power for about 60 years. Despite a
great deal of intensive effort for many decades, America has only bean
able to securely place 2 years' worth of nuclear waste material. It is
piling up every day.
* If the Australian government made the decision to build a nuke
tomorrow, it would take approximately 20 years to bring the reactor
on-line. How much do you think Solar PV cells will cost in 20 years?
More or less than right now? Here is a graph of Solar PV costs over time:
https://cleantechnica.com/2014/09/04/solar-panel-cost-trends-10-charts/
* Australia is the Sunniest place on the planet. If we tried really hard
and dedicated around 3% of our land mass (let's say in the centre) to
whacking up a fucking big Solar PV array (or better, Solar/thermal),
Australia could supply the entire planet's electricity needs (at today's
consumption levels). A significantly smaller area could satisfy
Australia's demands.
* Storage battery technology is moving rapdily, allowing Solar PV arrays
to be able to operate 24/7.
Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 11/02/2017 12:49 PM, F Murtz wrote:
Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 10/02/2017 7:44 PM, F Murtz wrote:
Je�us wrote:
On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 17:23:24 +1100, F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com
wrote:
Je?us wrote:
On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 14:57:51 +1100, F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com
wrote:
Je?us wrote:
On Thu, 9 Feb 2017 21:52:04 +1100, F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com
wrote:
This SA green power supply works well does not it?
Where does the 'SA Greenies' or 'green' fit into the picture?
The greenies have made a system that relies on wind power etc,
have
shut
down a coal fired generator and rely on other states for backup
and if
the wind does not blow or they have a storm that damages things
their
setup does not work well.
So, who are these 'greenies' you speak of?
The south Australian government is inclined to greenie views and is
attempting to run their power supply along green lines and it is not
working so far.
You sure they're not commies too?
No, just inclined to green views,so far it has cost SA the most
expensive and unreliable power system in Aus .
**Far from it. That honour belongs to Tasmania.
Tasmania is not the most expensive SA is
**I was referring to the unreliable part.
I was referring to the most expensive and currently most unreliable.
On 11/02/2017 4:40 PM, F Murtz wrote:
Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 11/02/2017 12:49 PM, F Murtz wrote:
Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 10/02/2017 7:44 PM, F Murtz wrote:
Je?us wrote:
On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 17:23:24 +1100, F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com
wrote:
Je?us wrote:
On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 14:57:51 +1100, F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com
wrote:
Je?us wrote:
On Thu, 9 Feb 2017 21:52:04 +1100, F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com
wrote:
This SA green power supply works well does not it?
Where does the 'SA Greenies' or 'green' fit into the picture?
The greenies have made a system that relies on wind power etc,
have
shut
down a coal fired generator and rely on other states for backup
and if
the wind does not blow or they have a storm that damages things
their
setup does not work well.
So, who are these 'greenies' you speak of?
The south Australian government is inclined to greenie views and is
attempting to run their power supply along green lines and it is not
working so far.
You sure they're not commies too?
No, just inclined to green views,so far it has cost SA the most
expensive and unreliable power system in Aus .
**Far from it. That honour belongs to Tasmania.
Tasmania is not the most expensive SA is
**I was referring to the unreliable part.
I was referring to the most expensive and currently most unreliable.
**Goalpost change, duly noted.
In Sydney wasn't a problem.On 11/02/2017 3:36 PM, Petzl wrote:
No mention of those providing Solar power during peak demand times?
Part of the problem yesterday was that people were coming home to hot
houses, and turning on the air-conditioning and other power consuming
appliances, just at the time solar panels were ceasing output as the sun
went down.
Sylvia
On 11/02/2017 4:40 PM, F Murtz wrote:
Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 11/02/2017 12:49 PM, F Murtz wrote:
Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 10/02/2017 7:44 PM, F Murtz wrote:
Je�us wrote:
On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 17:23:24 +1100, F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com
wrote:
Je?us wrote:
On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 14:57:51 +1100, F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com
wrote:
Je?us wrote:
On Thu, 9 Feb 2017 21:52:04 +1100, F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com
wrote:
This SA green power supply works well does not it?
Where does the 'SA Greenies' or 'green' fit into the picture?
The greenies have made a system that relies on wind power etc,
have
shut
down a coal fired generator and rely on other states for backup
and if
the wind does not blow or they have a storm that damages things
their
setup does not work well.
So, who are these 'greenies' you speak of?
The south Australian government is inclined to greenie views and is
attempting to run their power supply along green lines and it is
not
working so far.
You sure they're not commies too?
No, just inclined to green views,so far it has cost SA the most
expensive and unreliable power system in Aus .
**Far from it. That honour belongs to Tasmania.
Tasmania is not the most expensive SA is
**I was referring to the unreliable part.
I was referring to the most expensive and currently most unreliable.
**Goalpost change, duly noted.
On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 18:24:17 +1100, Sylvia Else
sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:
On 11/02/2017 3:36 PM, Petzl wrote:
No mention of those providing Solar power during peak demand times?
Part of the problem yesterday was that people were coming home to hot
houses, and turning on the air-conditioning and other power consuming
appliances, just at the time solar panels were ceasing output as the sun
went down.
Sylvia
In Sydney wasn't a problem.
Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 11/02/2017 4:40 PM, F Murtz wrote:
Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 11/02/2017 12:49 PM, F Murtz wrote:
Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 10/02/2017 7:44 PM, F Murtz wrote:
Je�us wrote:
On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 17:23:24 +1100, F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com
wrote:
Je?us wrote:
On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 14:57:51 +1100, F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com
wrote:
Je?us wrote:
On Thu, 9 Feb 2017 21:52:04 +1100, F Murtz
haggisz@hotmail.com
wrote:
This SA green power supply works well does not it?
Where does the 'SA Greenies' or 'green' fit into the picture?
The greenies have made a system that relies on wind power etc,
have
shut
down a coal fired generator and rely on other states for backup
and if
the wind does not blow or they have a storm that damages things
their
setup does not work well.
So, who are these 'greenies' you speak of?
The south Australian government is inclined to greenie views
and is
attempting to run their power supply along green lines and it is
not
working so far.
You sure they're not commies too?
No, just inclined to green views,so far it has cost SA the most
expensive and unreliable power system in Aus .
**Far from it. That honour belongs to Tasmania.
Tasmania is not the most expensive SA is
**I was referring to the unreliable part.
I was referring to the most expensive and currently most unreliable.
**Goalpost change, duly noted.
No goalpost change, statement was "so far it has cost SA the most
expensive and unreliable power system in Aus . "which it is.
On 11/02/2017 3:36 PM, Petzl wrote:
No mention of those providing Solar power during peak demand times?
Part of the problem yesterday was that people were coming home to hot
houses, and turning on the air-conditioning and other power consuming
appliances, just at the time solar panels were ceasing output as the sun
went down.
That makes their power system quite
unreliable. A day or two is fine, but not months.
* Electricity assets were sold off by various state governments (the
Libs in SA) and that action has brought us to the perilous position we
are in today.
* The Greens (which you seem to have an insane, irrational hatred
towards) are the only major political party which has consistently
fought against selling off electricity assets in every state.
Never let truth get in way of good storyOn Sun, 12 Feb 2017 04:40:52 +1100, Trevor Wilson
trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote:
* Tasmania lost power for MONTHS.
Ehh???
That makes their power system quite
unreliable. A day or two is fine, but not months.
I don't know where you got that info from, but I can assure you
Tasmania did not lose power for months, or even a day for that matter.
* Electricity assets were sold off by various state governments (the
Libs in SA) and that action has brought us to the perilous position we
are in today.
Yep.
* The Greens (which you seem to have an insane, irrational hatred
towards) are the only major political party which has consistently
fought against selling off electricity assets in every state.
That's something in their favour at least.
Or happened at a time when Solar kicked inOn 11/02/2017 8:15 PM, Petzl wrote:
On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 18:24:17 +1100, Sylvia Else
sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:
On 11/02/2017 3:36 PM, Petzl wrote:
No mention of those providing Solar power during peak demand times?
Part of the problem yesterday was that people were coming home to hot
houses, and turning on the air-conditioning and other power consuming
appliances, just at the time solar panels were ceasing output as the sun
went down.
Sylvia
In Sydney wasn't a problem.
As it turned out, because the load was moderately lower than AEMO
predicted, possibly because people took the trouble to reduce their load
a bit.
On 11/02/2017 6:24 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 11/02/2017 3:36 PM, Petzl wrote:
No mention of those providing Solar power during peak demand times?
Part of the problem yesterday was that people were coming home to hot
houses, and turning on the air-conditioning and other power consuming
appliances, just at the time solar panels were ceasing output as the sun
went down.
Yep. And that should be obvious to anyone, but then it was Petz commenting.
On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 04:40:52 +1100, Trevor Wilson
trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote:
* Tasmania lost power for MONTHS.
Ehh???
On 12/02/2017 9:38 AM, Je?us wrote:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 04:40:52 +1100, Trevor Wilson
trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote:
* Tasmania lost power for MONTHS.
Ehh???
**Dozens of Diesel generators were pressed into service, at huge expense.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-22/tasmanias-energy-crisis-no-end-in-sight/7347602
Repairs to Basslink cable were happenining and the hydro dams were
getting loow. But the survived