OT: Wow, compact fluorescent light bulbs already obsolete

On Wednesday, 29 January 2020 00:59:14 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:

On Wednesday, January 29, 2020 at 1:24:54 AM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Monday, 27 January 2020 03:38:16 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Monday, January 27, 2020 at 8:30:05 AM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Sunday, 26 January 2020 12:16:49 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, January 26, 2020 at 9:34:25 PM UTC+11, tabb wrote:
On Saturday, 25 January 2020 14:15:12 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 8:10:16 PM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Saturday, 25 January 2020 02:00:12 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 11:34:41 AM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Saturday, 25 January 2020 00:12:39 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 5:34:46 AM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Friday, 24 January 2020 12:27:40 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 8:08:10 PM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 11:35:18 UTC, Rick C wrote:
On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 1:32:55 AM UTC-5, tabby wrote:

snip

As usual, he doesn't say what these other steps might be. From any rational point of view "manufacturing a new fitting" starts with extracting the raw materials and finishes when it ends in a box on the retailers shelf, which doesn't leave a lot of room for other processes, so what he's actually doing is putting up a fog of meaningless pontification and skulking off into it.


I see you're too stupid to consider that the electrician coming out to the house to replace the fitting takes energy use.

Not a lot, and a lot of the point of compact fluoesecent lamps and and the LED bulbs that are now replacing them is they will go into existing fittings.

NT is much too senile to think about changing light bulbs for himself.

Sometimes further work is also 'needed', consuming more energy.

Not a lot.

And of course the light needs to be delivered or collected, often with a fair bit more householder looking around (transport). Not to worry.

Energy-saving individual walk to the shop and get some of their daily exercise in the process. NT needs a motorised wheel-chair

Yes, I wasn't specific, I assumed anyone familiar with something as simple as the replacement of a light fitting would be aware of what other consumptions of energy were involved.

More twaddle. You posted your usual vague generalisations, and are now making dogs dinner of trying to improvise some sort of justification for the twaddle.

Yet another moronic troll by slowman. More is sure to follow.

NT doesn't seem to notice that he's moronic troll around here - narcissists are blind to their own faults. Rubbing his nose in his own nonsense isn't an edifying operation, but that's house training for you.

So to sum up, yes of course there are other energy consumptions but you were too moronic to realise.

Trivially small,

you have some evidence to back that up?

If I was arguing with somebody who knew what evidence was, I'd go out and find it. It would be wasted on you.

I didn't think you would have.

FWIW if we look at the costs, the purchase price of the fitting is usually a minor part of the total cost for the average homeowner to have a light fitting replaced.


NT

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Wednesday, January 29, 2020 at 12:39:09 PM UTC+11, Rick C wrote:

On Tuesday, January 28, 2020 at 8:27:56 PM UTC-5, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, 29 January 2020 00:59:14 UTC, Bill Sloman
FWIW if we look at the costs, the purchase price of the fitting is usually a minor part of the total cost for the average homeowner to have a light fitting replaced.

Everyone I know would either do it themselves or have a friend come over and do it. Cost: a six pack.

I used to do it - and sometimes still do - but when the fitting over my desk fell out of the ceiling - it hadn't been put up as carefully as it might have been a decade or so ago - it took me so long to drill the first hole in the concrete ceiling that I got somebody from Airtasker to drill the next two holes.

My masonry drill is now too heavy for me to use to drill overhead. It's still fine for horizontal holes the wall, and I can lean on it hard enough to get it into hammmer-drill mode, but overhead was a bit too hard.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Wednesday, January 29, 2020 at 12:27:56 PM UTC+11, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, 29 January 2020 00:59:14 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, January 29, 2020 at 1:24:54 AM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Monday, 27 January 2020 03:38:16 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Monday, January 27, 2020 at 8:30:05 AM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Sunday, 26 January 2020 12:16:49 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, January 26, 2020 at 9:34:25 PM UTC+11, tabb wrote:
On Saturday, 25 January 2020 14:15:12 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 8:10:16 PM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Saturday, 25 January 2020 02:00:12 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 11:34:41 AM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Saturday, 25 January 2020 00:12:39 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 5:34:46 AM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Friday, 24 January 2020 12:27:40 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 8:08:10 PM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 11:35:18 UTC, Rick C wrote:
On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 1:32:55 AM UTC-5, tabby wrote:

snip

As usual, he doesn't say what these other steps might be. From any rational point of view "manufacturing a new fitting" starts with extracting the raw materials and finishes when it ends in a box on the retailers shelf, which doesn't leave a lot of room for other processes, so what he's actually doing is putting up a fog of meaningless pontification and skulking off into it.


I see you're too stupid to consider that the electrician coming out to the house to replace the fitting takes energy use.

Not a lot, and a lot of the point of compact fluoesecent lamps and and the LED bulbs that are now replacing them is they will go into existing fittings.

NT is much too senile to think about changing light bulbs for himself.

Sometimes further work is also 'needed', consuming more energy.

Not a lot.

And of course the light needs to be delivered or collected, often with a fair bit more householder looking around (transport). Not to worry.

Energy-saving individual walk to the shop and get some of their daily exercise in the process. NT needs a motorised wheel-chair

Yes, I wasn't specific, I assumed anyone familiar with something as simple as the replacement of a light fitting would be aware of what other consumptions of energy were involved.

More twaddle. You posted your usual vague generalisations, and are now making dogs dinner of trying to improvise some sort of justification for the twaddle.

Yet another moronic troll by slowman. More is sure to follow.

NT doesn't seem to notice that he's moronic troll around here - narcissists are blind to their own faults. Rubbing his nose in his own nonsense isn't an edifying operation, but that's house training for you.

So to sum up, yes of course there are other energy consumptions but you were too moronic to realise.

Trivially small,

you have some evidence to back that up?

If I was arguing with somebody who knew what evidence was, I'd go out and find it. It would be wasted on you.

I didn't think you would have.

Of course you do. You don't think clearly enough for this to matter.

> FWIW if we look at the costs, the purchase price of the fitting is usually a minor part of the total cost for the average homeowner to have a light fitting replaced.

But we were talking about wasting energy, as opposed to spending money.

Presumably you have decided that you can translate monetary cost into energy used, but that would be just one more of your bizarre delusions.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

On Wednesday, 29 January 2020 01:39:09 UTC, Rick C wrote:

On Tuesday, January 28, 2020 at 8:27:56 PM UTC-5, tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 29 January 2020 00:59:14 UTC, Bill Sloman

FWIW if we look at the costs, the purchase price of the fitting is usually a minor part of the total cost for the average homeowner to have a light fitting replaced.

Everyone I know would either do it themselves or have a friend come over and do it. Cost: a six pack.

Sure, but most of the population doesn't.


NT

 

On Wednesday, 29 January 2020 07:23:47 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:

On Wednesday, January 29, 2020 at 12:27:56 PM UTC+11, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, 29 January 2020 00:59:14 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, January 29, 2020 at 1:24:54 AM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Monday, 27 January 2020 03:38:16 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Monday, January 27, 2020 at 8:30:05 AM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Sunday, 26 January 2020 12:16:49 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, January 26, 2020 at 9:34:25 PM UTC+11, tabb wrote:
On Saturday, 25 January 2020 14:15:12 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 8:10:16 PM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Saturday, 25 January 2020 02:00:12 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 11:34:41 AM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Saturday, 25 January 2020 00:12:39 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 5:34:46 AM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Friday, 24 January 2020 12:27:40 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 8:08:10 PM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 11:35:18 UTC, Rick C wrote:
On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 1:32:55 AM UTC-5, tabby wrote:

snip

As usual, he doesn't say what these other steps might be. From any rational point of view "manufacturing a new fitting" starts with extracting the raw materials and finishes when it ends in a box on the retailers shelf, which doesn't leave a lot of room for other processes, so what he's actually doing is putting up a fog of meaningless pontification and skulking off into it.


I see you're too stupid to consider that the electrician coming out to the house to replace the fitting takes energy use.

Not a lot, and a lot of the point of compact fluoesecent lamps and and the LED bulbs that are now replacing them is they will go into existing fittings.

NT is much too senile to think about changing light bulbs for himself.

Sometimes further work is also 'needed', consuming more energy.

Not a lot.

And of course the light needs to be delivered or collected, often with a fair bit more householder looking around (transport). Not to worry.

Energy-saving individual walk to the shop and get some of their daily exercise in the process. NT needs a motorised wheel-chair

Yes, I wasn't specific, I assumed anyone familiar with something as simple as the replacement of a light fitting would be aware of what other consumptions of energy were involved.

More twaddle. You posted your usual vague generalisations, and are now making dogs dinner of trying to improvise some sort of justification for the twaddle.

Yet another moronic troll by slowman. More is sure to follow.

NT doesn't seem to notice that he's moronic troll around here - narcissists are blind to their own faults. Rubbing his nose in his own nonsense isn't an edifying operation, but that's house training for you.

So to sum up, yes of course there are other energy consumptions but you were too moronic to realise.

Trivially small,

you have some evidence to back that up?

If I was arguing with somebody who knew what evidence was, I'd go out and find it. It would be wasted on you.

I didn't think you would have.

Of course you do. You don't think clearly enough for this to matter.

so you still can't back up your unlikely position. No surprise


more idiocy & make-it-up snipped

 

[Rick C]

On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 3:13:18 AM UTC-5, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, 29 January 2020 01:39:09 UTC, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, January 28, 2020 at 8:27:56 PM UTC-5, tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 29 January 2020 00:59:14 UTC, Bill Sloman

FWIW if we look at the costs, the purchase price of the fitting is usually a minor part of the total cost for the average homeowner to have a light fitting replaced.

Everyone I know would either do it themselves or have a friend come over and do it. Cost: a six pack.

Sure, but most of the population doesn't.

I think that is unsubstantiated.

Even if there is a one time cost to switching to CFL and LED bulbs, that doesn't mean the savings on electricity isn't still worth the effort. Most light bulbs are in lamps, at least all the homes I've been in, but then that's only anecdotal. Maybe the hundreds of homes I've seen were an odd statistical anomaly with lamps all over the place while the rest of the world uses ceiling fixtures.

--

Rick C.

+--+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+--+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 7:15:34 PM UTC+11, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, 29 January 2020 07:23:47 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, January 29, 2020 at 12:27:56 PM UTC+11, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, 29 January 2020 00:59:14 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, January 29, 2020 at 1:24:54 AM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Monday, 27 January 2020 03:38:16 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Monday, January 27, 2020 at 8:30:05 AM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Sunday, 26 January 2020 12:16:49 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, January 26, 2020 at 9:34:25 PM UTC+11, tabb wrote:
On Saturday, 25 January 2020 14:15:12 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 8:10:16 PM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Saturday, 25 January 2020 02:00:12 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 11:34:41 AM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Saturday, 25 January 2020 00:12:39 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 5:34:46 AM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Friday, 24 January 2020 12:27:40 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 8:08:10 PM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 11:35:18 UTC, Rick C wrote:
On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 1:32:55 AM UTC-5, tabby wrote:

<snip>

If I was arguing with somebody who knew what evidence was, I'd go out and find it. It would be wasted on you.

I didn't think you would have.

Of course you do. You don't think clearly enough for this to matter.

so you still can't back up your unlikely position. No surprise.

NT doesn't back up his unlikely propositions - though he's too dim to realise how unlikely they actually are - so he certainly isn't going to be surprised.

> more idiocy & make-it-up snipped

NT doesn't seem to realise that he has cornered the market in idiocy and making-it-up. People who criticise him for it get accused of copying his tactics, but we don't have to bother.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Michael Terrell]

On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 3:19:55 AM UTC-5, Rick C wrote:

On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 3:13:18 AM UTC-5, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, 29 January 2020 01:39:09 UTC, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, January 28, 2020 at 8:27:56 PM UTC-5, tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 29 January 2020 00:59:14 UTC, Bill Sloman

FWIW if we look at the costs, the purchase price of the fitting is usually a minor part of the total cost for the average homeowner to have a light fitting replaced.

Everyone I know would either do it themselves or have a friend come over and do it. Cost: a six pack.

Sure, but most of the population doesn't.

I think that is unsubstantiated.

Even if there is a one time cost to switching to CFL and LED bulbs, that doesn't mean the savings on electricity isn't still worth the effort. Most light bulbs are in lamps, at least all the homes I've been in, but then that's only anecdotal. Maybe the hundreds of homes I've seen were an odd statistical anomaly with lamps all over the place while the rest of the world uses ceiling fixtures.

I have two floor lamps. Everything else is ceiling fixtures. Several of those are motion sensors that will not work with CFL or LEDs sine the out is not relay controlled. Outdoor lights are either dusk to dawn for the gateposts, (A pair of 3W LED) or motion sensors for security lighting. Those only work with incandescent, as well. (150 or 500W Halogen)

 

[Rick C]

On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 11:41:19 AM UTC-5, Michael Terrell wrote:

On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 3:19:55 AM UTC-5, Rick C wrote:
On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 3:13:18 AM UTC-5, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, 29 January 2020 01:39:09 UTC, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, January 28, 2020 at 8:27:56 PM UTC-5, tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 29 January 2020 00:59:14 UTC, Bill Sloman

FWIW if we look at the costs, the purchase price of the fitting is usually a minor part of the total cost for the average homeowner to have a light fitting replaced.

Everyone I know would either do it themselves or have a friend come over and do it. Cost: a six pack.

Sure, but most of the population doesn't.

I think that is unsubstantiated.

Even if there is a one time cost to switching to CFL and LED bulbs, that doesn't mean the savings on electricity isn't still worth the effort. Most light bulbs are in lamps, at least all the homes I've been in, but then that's only anecdotal. Maybe the hundreds of homes I've seen were an odd statistical anomaly with lamps all over the place while the rest of the world uses ceiling fixtures.

I have two floor lamps. Everything else is ceiling fixtures. Several of those are motion sensors that will not work with CFL or LEDs sine the out is not relay controlled. Outdoor lights are either dusk to dawn for the gateposts, (A pair of 3W LED) or motion sensors for security lighting. Those only work with incandescent, as well. (150 or 500W Halogen)

Wow, you seem to have a knack for buying crappy lighting controls.

It was a long time ago that I realized I hated ceiling lights as they don't light a room well. Lamps are much better and you don't need to leave your bed to turn them on and off or get out of your chair or to turn your chair to get enough light to read a paper. Ceiling lights have one use, to light a room enough so you can turn on a lamp if it isn't by the door.

The fact remains that switching away from incandescent lighting is a good thing and it was good that the government encouraged it. It has saved a lot of electricity and allow a number of power plants to not be built.

--

Rick C.

+-+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Michael Terrell]

On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 12:03:19 PM UTC-5, Rick C wrote:

On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 11:41:19 AM UTC-5, Michael Terrell wrote:
On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 3:19:55 AM UTC-5, Rick C wrote:
On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 3:13:18 AM UTC-5, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, 29 January 2020 01:39:09 UTC, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, January 28, 2020 at 8:27:56 PM UTC-5, tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 29 January 2020 00:59:14 UTC, Bill Sloman

FWIW if we look at the costs, the purchase price of the fitting is usually a minor part of the total cost for the average homeowner to have a light fitting replaced.

Everyone I know would either do it themselves or have a friend come over and do it. Cost: a six pack.

Sure, but most of the population doesn't.

I think that is unsubstantiated.

Even if there is a one time cost to switching to CFL and LED bulbs, that doesn't mean the savings on electricity isn't still worth the effort. Most light bulbs are in lamps, at least all the homes I've been in, but then that's only anecdotal. Maybe the hundreds of homes I've seen were an odd statistical anomaly with lamps all over the place while the rest of the world uses ceiling fixtures.

I have two floor lamps. Everything else is ceiling fixtures. Several of those are motion sensors that will not work with CFL or LEDs sine the out is not relay controlled. Outdoor lights are either dusk to dawn for the gateposts, (A pair of 3W LED) or motion sensors for security lighting. Those only work with incandescent, as well. (150 or 500W Halogen)

Wow, you seem to have a knack for buying crappy lighting controls.

It was a long time ago that I realized I hated ceiling lights as they don't light a room well. Lamps are much better and you don't need to leave your bed to turn them on and off or get out of your chair or to turn your chair to get enough light to read a paper. Ceiling lights have one use, to light a room enough so you can turn on a lamp if it isn't by the door.

The fact remains that switching away from incandescent lighting is a good thing and it was good that the government encouraged it. It has saved a lot of electricity and allow a number of power plants to not be built.

Wow, you seem to have a knack for posting mindless opinionated shit.

I installed the motion sensors before CFL was common, and LED lamps were lab toys. Just because my setup doesn't satisfy you is the proof that I did a good job. My computer desk is under a ceiling fan. There are three 11W LED lights mounted on it. They are on 24/7 when I am home so that I have light to get up without falling.

I am now 100% disabled and I spent 95% of my time in one room so I have exactly what I need. I was able to do almost anything, until my mid 50s, but that changed overnight. My legs are to swollen to bend most of the time, and I need a cane to get around. Quite frankly, your stupid ideas sicken me.

It's not my problem that morons like you need floor or table lamps. They are just more crap to keep clean or for me fall over. I need a cane to walk. If I am carrying anything, I would have to put it down, turn the lamp on or off and pick up the item. Instead, I can go through most of the house without risking a fall.

I had two nasty falls last year, one in a hardware store and one on blacktop. Try laying face down for over an hour on hot asphalt, and tell me how you like it. I know a lot of elderly and disabled. I used to repair things for them for free when I could still walk without a cane. I'm certain that if you live long enough, the staff at the nursing hoe will poison you for being such a whiny, opinionated bitch.

 

Michael Terrell <terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote in news:1b59e23d-
139f-4e35-8492-77c55ba6ca5a@googlegroups.com:

Wow, you seem to have a knack for posting mindless opinionated shit.

Maybe you should look up the term opinion. mindless jackassed dumbfuck.

 

On Thursday, 30 January 2020 08:57:38 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:

On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 7:15:34 PM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 29 January 2020 07:23:47 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, January 29, 2020 at 12:27:56 PM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 29 January 2020 00:59:14 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, January 29, 2020 at 1:24:54 AM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Monday, 27 January 2020 03:38:16 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Monday, January 27, 2020 at 8:30:05 AM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Sunday, 26 January 2020 12:16:49 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, January 26, 2020 at 9:34:25 PM UTC+11, tabb wrote:
On Saturday, 25 January 2020 14:15:12 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 8:10:16 PM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Saturday, 25 January 2020 02:00:12 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 11:34:41 AM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Saturday, 25 January 2020 00:12:39 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 5:34:46 AM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Friday, 24 January 2020 12:27:40 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 8:08:10 PM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 11:35:18 UTC, Rick C wrote:
On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 1:32:55 AM UTC-5, tabby wrote:

snip

If I was arguing with somebody who knew what evidence was, I'd go out and find it. It would be wasted on you.

I didn't think you would have.

Of course you do. You don't think clearly enough for this to matter.

so you still can't back up your unlikely position. No surprise.

The only relevant thing is that you can't back up your unlikely position. The rest is silly waffle & snipped. Your sanest response would be something like 'you're right I can't substantiate it.'


NT

 

On Thursday, 30 January 2020 08:19:55 UTC, Rick C wrote:

On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 3:13:18 AM UTC-5, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, 29 January 2020 01:39:09 UTC, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, January 28, 2020 at 8:27:56 PM UTC-5, tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 29 January 2020 00:59:14 UTC, Bill Sloman

FWIW if we look at the costs, the purchase price of the fitting is usually a minor part of the total cost for the average homeowner to have a light fitting replaced.

Everyone I know would either do it themselves or have a friend come over and do it. Cost: a six pack.

Sure, but most of the population doesn't.

I think that is unsubstantiated.

I can't speak for the US but certainly here most people don't do their own house wiring.


> Even if there is a one time cost to switching to CFL and LED bulbs, that doesn't mean the savings on electricity isn't still worth the effort.

that alone doesn't conclude either way.


> Most light bulbs are in lamps, at least all the homes I've been in, but then that's only anecdotal. Maybe the hundreds of homes I've seen were an odd statistical anomaly with lamps all over the place while the rest of the world uses ceiling fixtures.

but what that means is a mystery


NT

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 9:35:29 PM UTC+11, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

On Thursday, 30 January 2020 08:19:55 UTC, Rick C wrote:
On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 3:13:18 AM UTC-5, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, 29 January 2020 01:39:09 UTC, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, January 28, 2020 at 8:27:56 PM UTC-5, tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 29 January 2020 00:59:14 UTC, Bill Sloman

FWIW if we look at the costs, the purchase price of the fitting is usually a minor part of the total cost for the average homeowner to have a light fitting replaced.

Everyone I know would either do it themselves or have a friend come over and do it. Cost: a six pack.

Sure, but most of the population doesn't.

I think that is unsubstantiated.

I can't speak for the US but certainly here most people don't do their own house wiring.

Swapping a ceiling fixture isn't exactly re-wiring a house.

Even if there is a one time cost to switching to CFL and LED bulbs, that doesn't mean the savings on electricity isn't still worth the effort.

that alone doesn't conclude either way.

Not that NT can work out. Anything beyond the simplest arithmetic is too hard , and the conceptual juggling required to compare the cost of manufacturing a light fitting, the cost of installing it, and the amount you might save on the cost of the electricity by fitting LED or compact fluorescent lamps is quite beyond him. He can do the hand-waving part, but keeping all the ball in the ball in the air isn't really his thing.

We get the load of balls as some kind of place holder for a real argument.

Most light bulbs are in lamps, at least all the homes I've been in, but then that's only anecdotal. Maybe the hundreds of homes I've seen were an odd statistical anomaly with lamps all over the place while the rest of the world uses ceiling fixtures.

but what that means is a mystery

To NT, who is easily mystified, because he doesn't know very much.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 9:38:02 PM UTC+11, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

On Thursday, 30 January 2020 08:57:38 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 7:15:34 PM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 29 January 2020 07:23:47 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, January 29, 2020 at 12:27:56 PM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 29 January 2020 00:59:14 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, January 29, 2020 at 1:24:54 AM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Monday, 27 January 2020 03:38:16 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Monday, January 27, 2020 at 8:30:05 AM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Sunday, 26 January 2020 12:16:49 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, January 26, 2020 at 9:34:25 PM UTC+11, tabb wrote:
On Saturday, 25 January 2020 14:15:12 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 8:10:16 PM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Saturday, 25 January 2020 02:00:12 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 11:34:41 AM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Saturday, 25 January 2020 00:12:39 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 5:34:46 AM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Friday, 24 January 2020 12:27:40 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 8:08:10 PM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 11:35:18 UTC, Rick C wrote:
On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 1:32:55 AM UTC-5, tabby wrote:

snip

If I was arguing with somebody who knew what evidence was, I'd go out and find it. It would be wasted on you.

I didn't think you would have.

Of course you do. You don't think clearly enough for this to matter.

so you still can't back up your unlikely position. No surprise.

The only relevant thing is that you can't back up your unlikely position. The rest is silly waffle & snipped. Your sanest response would be something like 'you're right I can't substantiate it.'

No sane person would imagine that NT could get anything right, give or take the rare "stopped clock" moment.

What NT is looking for is the intellectual respect he imagine he deserves, rather than the contempt his vacuous waffling reliably generates.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 9:43:03 PM UTC+11, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

On Thursday, 30 January 2020 17:03:19 UTC, Rick C wrote:
On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 11:41:19 AM UTC-5, Michael Terrell wrote:
On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 3:19:55 AM UTC-5, Rick C wrote:
On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 3:13:18 AM UTC-5, tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 29 January 2020 01:39:09 UTC, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, January 28, 2020 at 8:27:56 PM UTC-5, tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 29 January 2020 00:59:14 UTC, Bill Sloman

<snip>

The fact remains that switching away from incandescent lighting is a good thing and it was good that the government encouraged it. It has saved a lot of electricity and allow a number of power plants to not be built.

If it's a good thing, which it generally is, people generally move in that direction without government control & interference.

Rather more slowly than they do when encouraged.

> It wouldn't have been as bad if govt had gone about it in a constructive way, but being govt they didn't.

NT hasn't bothered to spell out how they might have done it "in a constructive way".

It seems unlikely that he has anything specific in mind, but he's great at constructing uninformative sentences that sound as if they mean something.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Rick C]

On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 5:35:29 AM UTC-5, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

On Thursday, 30 January 2020 08:19:55 UTC, Rick C wrote:
On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 3:13:18 AM UTC-5, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, 29 January 2020 01:39:09 UTC, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, January 28, 2020 at 8:27:56 PM UTC-5, tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 29 January 2020 00:59:14 UTC, Bill Sloman

FWIW if we look at the costs, the purchase price of the fitting is usually a minor part of the total cost for the average homeowner to have a light fitting replaced.

Everyone I know would either do it themselves or have a friend come over and do it. Cost: a six pack.

Sure, but most of the population doesn't.

I think that is unsubstantiated.

I can't speak for the US but certainly here most people don't do their own house wiring.

I think it is the opposite. Most people in this group WILL replace a ceiling light fixture. It's one of the easiest things you can do in a home. Turn off the electricity and the mechanics are simple. Turning a couple of wire nuts are trivial and screwing a ground wire if needed couldn't be much easier. Bolting the fixture to the box is easier than virtually anything else you will do in your home and no worse than replacing incandescent light bulbs on a ladder, again and again and again.

Even if there is a one time cost to switching to CFL and LED bulbs, that doesn't mean the savings on electricity isn't still worth the effort.

that alone doesn't conclude either way.

Exactly. So saying that cost is makes it not worth it is unfounded.

Most light bulbs are in lamps, at least all the homes I've been in, but then that's only anecdotal. Maybe the hundreds of homes I've seen were an odd statistical anomaly with lamps all over the place while the rest of the world uses ceiling fixtures.

but what that means is a mystery

Unless you are an odd, old crank, you have lots of lamps in your home which can be accessed and require no new fixtures but only a very few ceiling lights that can either be replaced or just not used. Actually, the ceiling light in the center of the room can be replaced with something much more attractive along the walls. I think I'll do that in my kitchen. That's a room where the lighting is often terrible. Many people have already removed that ceiling lamp and put in under the cabinet lighting, putting the light where you need it, not behind you so you cast a shadow on your work.

I've already started the conversion in my bedroom years ago with a couple of ceiling cans which will take CFLs and presently have LEDs. I don't like the light shining down as well so I'm' going to add hanging shades over the night stands instead. I need to find the right LEDs to go in those.

I just realized that many ceiling fixtures don't actually need a new fixture. A can with a screw socket will take the same sort of hanging shade I'm installing. No electrical work involved.

--

Rick C.

+-++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Michael Terrell]

On Monday, February 3, 2020 at 5:00:27 AM UTC-5, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

Did you miss the pointing out that what people in this group do is kinda none too representative of what most people do?


I doubt we need a simplified description of replacing a light fitting.

Some new fixtures don't fit the older boxes. They changed from 3" to 4" which can hold heavier fixtures. I had to replace some fiberglass 3" boxes in thin plywood Nothing to center a hole saw without moving to the side, which would leave an exposed hole in the ceiling. The solution I came up with a plywood pattern with the new outline cut out. Two screws to hold it up, then use the hole saw followed by a jig saw fro The two notches.

I have had a handful of LED bulbs fail, so far. They are not in enclosed spaces, and the CFLs they replaced longer than the first batch of LEDs. The longest lived ones are on a photocell. They are over 10 years old, and are 3W. Just enough light to avoid the stacked stone gate posts.

 

On Saturday, 1 February 2020 20:00:41 UTC, Rick C wrote:

On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 5:35:29 AM UTC-5, tabby wrote:
On Thursday, 30 January 2020 08:19:55 UTC, Rick C wrote:
On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 3:13:18 AM UTC-5, tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 29 January 2020 01:39:09 UTC, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, January 28, 2020 at 8:27:56 PM UTC-5, tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 29 January 2020 00:59:14 UTC, Bill Sloman

FWIW if we look at the costs, the purchase price of the fitting is usually a minor part of the total cost for the average homeowner to have a light fitting replaced.

Everyone I know would either do it themselves or have a friend come over and do it. Cost: a six pack.

Sure, but most of the population doesn't.

I think that is unsubstantiated.

I can't speak for the US but certainly here most people don't do their own house wiring.

I think it is the opposite. Most people in this group WILL replace a ceiling light fixture.

Did you miss the pointing out that what people in this group do is kinda none too representative of what most people do?


> It's one of the easiest things you can do in a home. Turn off the electricity and the mechanics are simple. Turning a couple of wire nuts are trivial and screwing a ground wire if needed couldn't be much easier. Bolting the fixture to the box is easier than virtually anything else you will do in your home and no worse than replacing incandescent light bulbs on a ladder, again and again and again.

I doubt we need a simplified decsription of replacing a light fitting.

Even if there is a one time cost to switching to CFL and LED bulbs, that doesn't mean the savings on electricity isn't still worth the effort.

that alone doesn't conclude either way.

Exactly. So saying that cost is makes it not worth it is unfounded.

in English?

Most light bulbs are in lamps, at least all the homes I've been in, but then that's only anecdotal. Maybe the hundreds of homes I've seen were an odd statistical anomaly with lamps all over the place while the rest of the world uses ceiling fixtures.

but what that means is a mystery

Unless you are an odd, old crank, you have lots of lamps in your home which can be accessed and require no new fixtures but only a very few ceiling lights that can either be replaced or just not used.

???

> Actually, the ceiling light in the center of the room can be replaced with something much more attractive along the walls. I think I'll do that in my kitchen. That's a room where the lighting is often terrible. Many people have already removed that ceiling lamp and put in under the cabinet lighting, putting the light where you need it, not behind you so you cast a shadow on your work.

Is that relevant in some way?

I've already started the conversion in my bedroom years ago with a couple of ceiling cans which will take CFLs and presently have LEDs. I don't like the light shining down as well so I'm' going to add hanging shades over the night stands instead. I need to find the right LEDs to go in those.

I just realized that many ceiling fixtures don't actually need a new fixture. A can with a screw socket will take the same sort of hanging shade I'm installing. No electrical work involved.

tell us in English.


NT

 

On Saturday, 1 February 2020 13:46:39 UTC, Bill Sloman wrote:

On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 9:43:03 PM UTC+11, tabby wrote:
On Thursday, 30 January 2020 17:03:19 UTC, Rick C wrote:
On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 11:41:19 AM UTC-5, Michael Terrell wrote:
On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 3:19:55 AM UTC-5, Rick C wrote:
On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 3:13:18 AM UTC-5, tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 29 January 2020 01:39:09 UTC, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, January 28, 2020 at 8:27:56 PM UTC-5, tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 29 January 2020 00:59:14 UTC, Bill Sloman

snip

The fact remains that switching away from incandescent lighting is a good thing and it was good that the government encouraged it. It has saved a lot of electricity and allow a number of power plants to not be built.

If it's a good thing, which it generally is, people generally move in that direction without government control & interference.

Rather more slowly than they do when encouraged.

yeeees

It wouldn't have been as bad if govt had gone about it in a constructive way, but being govt they didn't.

NT hasn't bothered to spell out how they might have done it "in a constructive way".

It seems unlikely that he has anything specific in mind, but he's great at constructing uninformative sentences that sound as if they mean something.

By informing people? Lord you're thick.


NT