OT (US CITIZENS ONLY): S877 Can Spam Law

"Bill Garber" <willy46pa@comcast.net> schreef in bericht
news:nOSdnWxkrMwXHnmiRVn-hA@comcast.com...

One thing you can try is nothing. Simply delete them for
a time, and soon they will remove you by default. Also,
if you Opt-Out, your email addy may be added to other
email lists which can be sold to other vendors. I've been
doing the above, and get maybe 3-4 spam emails per day.
None of them from new vendors. These will soon die off
and I'll be free until I request info for something and
get added to another list.
Click to expand...
I never opt-out, since these opt-outs often contain a
defective link anyway.

What I also don't understand why US based companies don't
filter foreign addresses. A minute ago I got an offer for
a Ronco chicken grill, but they only ship to US and Canada.

--
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'x' and 'invalid' when replying by email)
 
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 12:20:33 -0500, the renowned "Mark Jones"
<127.0.0.1> wrote:

I heard that up to 60% of the bandwidth used on the 'net is from email...
60%! imagine how much faster things would run if we could drop that down to
1% or even 5%.
Click to expand...
Free up some bandwidth for all those pirated MP3s, movies and
pornography?

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
 
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 12:14:11 -0500, "Bill Garber"
<willy46pa@comcast.net> wrote:

[snip]
: Frank Bemelman wrote:
[snip]
: > What I really don't understand are the spammers that sent
: > messages like 'en.large your pen;s' etc, these guys ought
: > to be shot in the neck, cut to pieces and fed to the dogs.
:
: > I'm getting about 80 spam emails per day now.

One thing you can try is nothing. Simply delete them for
a time, and soon they will remove you by default. Also,
if you Opt-Out, your email addy may be added to other
email lists which can be sold to other vendors. I've been
doing the above, and get maybe 3-4 spam emails per day.
None of them from new vendors. These will soon die off
and I'll be free until I request info for something and
get added to another list.

Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
Email - willy4SPAM6pa@comXcast.net
Remove - SPAM and X to contact me
Click to expand...
I was averaging more than 30 spams a day a few months ago. Then I
took some evasive actions including some E-mail name changes and then
joining SpamCop.net as a forwarding service.

I now see NO spam in my inbox, and I clear and quick-report 4-5 per
day that SpamCop traps and traces.

I am a "mole" reporter... the offender doesn't get to see my reports
and verify my E-mail addresses... the offender simply goes on to a
block list after 10 reports. Then that IP address RANGE loses its
ability to send mail and doesn't regain it until 48 hours after the
last spam report.

This gets the attention of ISP's really fast... they lose legitimate
customers if they don't cut the spammers.

Even today nailed two S.E.D posters who took offense at my right of
freedom of speech... SpamAssassin (what SpamCop uses to evaluate
E-mails) viewed their diatribes E-mailed to me as spam. I was more
than happy to press the "Quick-report and Delete" button ;-)

(If you are interested, the correct name is SpamCop.NET, SpamCop.COM
is a rip-off who'll set you up to receive even more spam.)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
Hi Mark,

I welcome their efforts. Any program that can think and see like a
human should be a wonderful thing to behold, no matter who wrote it.

I think it will be quite a while, though before we see spambots that
can see words in pictures with chaotic backgrounds.... or spambots that
can answer simple questions.

But, that is only one idea. There are many, many, more. The most
important one is:

SMTP and POP must GO!

US Federal legislation won't work, because the internet is an
international medium, and as such the US doesn't have any jurisdiction
over the areas where the spam originates. I get easily 80 porno spams
from the asian countries every day. I can't even read the text! Yet
they come to me. I made the sad mistake of emailing a newsgroup friend
who lives in Hong Kong, and his ISP sold my address into asian
servitude.

-Chuck

Mark Jones wrote:
A certain national ISP limits the number of mails that can be sent in an
effort to control spammers. You'd think that would be a good thing, until
you read the fine print... per connection instance, 20 messages can be
queued for sending, with 200 recipients each. So the smart spammer just
changes the settings in their spamming software to overcome these types of
limitations. And that's still 4000 recipients per send! Some limitation,
huh?

I wouldn't mind in the least if we moved from POP and SMTP to SPOP and
SSMTP (secure variants?) and had a random challenge like you describe.
Problem is, some little 3rd-world punk with too much time on their hands is
going to find a way around it. E-Mail tampering/solicitation would probably
have to be considered a federal offense before the problem could be
eliminated.

I heard that up to 60% of the bandwidth used on the 'net is from email...
60%! imagine how much faster things would run if we could drop that down to
1% or even 5%.
Click to expand...
 
One thing you can try is nothing. Simply delete them for
a time, and soon they will remove you by default.
Click to expand...
That's why I'm still getting hundreds a day then, because I've been just
deleting them for over two years...
 
"Jim Thompson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:jl29uv8ndrshklinfqpnnvqh1tbe2c2psj@4ax.com...
: On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 12:14:11 -0500, "Bill Garber"
: <willy46pa@comcast.net> wrote:
:
: [snip]
: >: Frank Bemelman wrote:
: [snip]
: >: > What I really don't understand are the spammers that sent
: >: > messages like 'en.large your pen;s' etc, these guys ought
: >: > to be shot in the neck, cut to pieces and fed to the dogs.
: >: >
: >: > I'm getting about 80 spam emails per day now.
: >
: >One thing you can try is nothing. Simply delete them for
: >a time, and soon they will remove you by default. Also,
: >if you Opt-Out, your email addy may be added to other
: >email lists which can be sold to other vendors. I've been
: >doing the above, and get maybe 3-4 spam emails per day.
: >None of them from new vendors. These will soon die off
: >and I'll be free until I request info for something and
: >get added to another list.
: >
: >Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
: >Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
: >Email - willy4SPAM6pa@comXcast.net
: >Remove - SPAM and X to contact me
: >
:
: I was averaging more than 30 spams a day a few months ago.
Then I
: took some evasive actions including some E-mail name changes
and then
: joining SpamCop.net as a forwarding service.
:
: I now see NO spam in my inbox, and I clear and quick-report 4-5
per
: day that SpamCop traps and traces.
:
: I am a "mole" reporter... the offender doesn't get to see my
reports
: and verify my E-mail addresses... the offender simply goes on
to a
: block list after 10 reports. Then that IP address RANGE loses
its
: ability to send mail and doesn't regain it until 48 hours after
the
: last spam report.
:
: This gets the attention of ISP's really fast... they lose
legitimate
: customers if they don't cut the spammers.
:
: Even today nailed two S.E.D posters who took offense at my
right of
: freedom of speech... SpamAssassin (what SpamCop uses to
evaluate
: E-mails) viewed their diatribes E-mailed to me as spam. I was
more
: than happy to press the "Quick-report and Delete" button ;-)
:
: (If you are interested, the correct name is SpamCop.NET,
SpamCop.COM
: is a rip-off who'll set you up to receive even more spam.)

Thanks Jim, I will check into that. I'd rather NO spam
than even 3-4. So far the only thing in the NGs is the
massive flaming that goes on in some and the extensive
off-topic cross-posting complaints. Nothing wrong with
off-topic if it's an important issue, and cross-posting
reaches a larger audience. I just despise the complaining.

Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
Email - willy4SPAM6pa@comXcast.net
Remove - SPAM and X to contact me



---
This email ain't infected, dude!

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.544 / Virus Database: 338 - Release Date: 11/26/03
 
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 14:45:32 -0500, "Bill Garber"
<willy46pa@comcast.net> wrote:

"Jim Thompson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:jl29uv8ndrshklinfqpnnvqh1tbe2c2psj@4ax.com...
[snip]
: (If you are interested, the correct name is SpamCop.NET,
SpamCop.COM
: is a rip-off who'll set you up to receive even more spam.)

Thanks Jim, I will check into that. I'd rather NO spam
than even 3-4. So far the only thing in the NGs is the
massive flaming that goes on in some and the extensive
off-topic cross-posting complaints. Nothing wrong with
off-topic if it's an important issue, and cross-posting
reaches a larger audience. I just despise the complaining.

Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
Email - willy4SPAM6pa@comXcast.net
Remove - SPAM and X to contact me
Click to expand...
I despise the complaining also. I was just plain stunned at the
reaction to my "Donate Frequent Flyer Miles to Our Troops",
particularly since I have been trying to avoid irritating anyone's
sensibilities.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
Bill Garber wrote:

One thing you can try is nothing. Simply delete them for
a time, and soon they will remove you by default.
Click to expand...
Wrong.

--
Mike Page BEng(Hons) MIEE www.eclectic-web.co.uk
 
"Jim Thompson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:m4a9uv42h3e47m04on7goddj8u50pivbgi@4ax.com...
: On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 14:45:32 -0500, "Bill Garber"
: <willy46pa@comcast.net> wrote:
:
: >
: >"Jim Thompson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
: >news:jl29uv8ndrshklinfqpnnvqh1tbe2c2psj@4ax.com...
: [snip]
: >: (If you are interested, the correct name is SpamCop.NET,
: >SpamCop.COM
: >: is a rip-off who'll set you up to receive even more spam.)
: >
: >Thanks Jim, I will check into that. I'd rather NO spam
: >than even 3-4. So far the only thing in the NGs is the
: >massive flaming that goes on in some and the extensive
: >off-topic cross-posting complaints. Nothing wrong with
: >off-topic if it's an important issue, and cross-posting
: >reaches a larger audience. I just despise the complaining.
:
: I despise the complaining also. I was just plain stunned at
the
: reaction to my "Donate Frequent Flyer Miles to Our Troops",
: particularly since I have been trying to avoid irritating
anyone's
: sensibilities.

And, I have found that is so much easier to do than
10-15 years ago. It seems that some lack the communication
and language skills needed to understand the simplest
phrases and word patterns. Each sentence and partial
sentence becomes a single thought to them, rather than
reading and taking in the entire article and adapting
a general drift of what you're trying to say. I hope
this hasn't offended anyone, but if it has, then maybe
the shoe fits. Jim, I know you've mentioned that the
holidays have not been good to you in the past, but
please try to enjoy this one, you never know when it will
be your last. Merry Christmas and a Joyous New Year to
you and yours. :)

Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
Email - willy4SPAM6pa@comXcast.net
Remove - SPAM and X to contact me



---
This email ain't infected, dude!

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.544 / Virus Database: 338 - Release Date: 11/26/03
 
"Dave VanHorn" <dvanhorn@cedar.net> wrote in message
news:gsWdnXQ9L8O_P3miRVn-hA@comcast.com...
:
: > One thing you can try is nothing. Simply delete them for
: > a time, and soon they will remove you by default.
:
: That's why I'm still getting hundreds a day then, because I've
been just
: deleting them for over two years...

Do you avoid seeking info and placing your email
address into lists to be sold to vendors? I'm not
familiar with cedar.net. Is that a 3rd party webmail?
I mean like hotmail? If so, then you will always
get spam through them. My hotmail and yahoo accounts
were so riddled with SPAM that I cancelled hotmail
and rarely use yahoo mail anymore. Webmail accounts
are notorious for SPAMMERS as they have virtually
NO security at all.

Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
Email - willy4SPAM6pa@comXcast.net
Remove - SPAM and X to contact me



---
This email ain't infected, dude!

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.544 / Virus Database: 338 - Release Date: 11/26/03
 
"Mike Page" <mike@SCRUBeclectic-CAPSweb.BLAMEco.SWENuk> wrote in
message news:1071950934.937723@ananke.eclipse.net.uk...
: Bill Garber wrote:
:
: > One thing you can try is nothing. Simply delete them for
: > a time, and soon they will remove you by default.
:
: Wrong.

A fine display of the scripture quoted in large
bold letters right on your web page. See Below.

"The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace,
patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
gentleness, self-control; against such things
there is no law.
Galatians 5:22-23

Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
Email - willy4SPAM6pa@comXcast.net
Remove - SPAM and X to contact me



---
This email ain't infected, dude!

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.544 / Virus Database: 338 - Release Date: 11/26/03
 
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 15:08:44 -0500, "Bill Garber"
<willy46pa@comcast.net> wrote:

[snip]

Jim, I know you've mentioned that the
holidays have not been good to you in the past, but
please try to enjoy this one, you never know when it will
be your last. Merry Christmas and a Joyous New Year to
you and yours. :)

Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
Email - willy4SPAM6pa@comXcast.net
Remove - SPAM and X to contact me
Click to expand...
I don't recall "holidays have not been good to (me) in the past"?

But this year has certainly been enjoyable... the WHOLE family was
here for Thanksgiving with professional photographs of all
permutations and combinations the next day.

We'll celebrate our Christmas gathering this year on the 26th so that
all the Arizona family members can get here; tonight we'll light
Hanukkah candle number two for our youngest granddaughter who's
visiting.

Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Happy "your favorite family
celebration", and a Joyous New Year to All!!

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
"Jim Thompson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:sqb9uv0d6k98jccm7ru9rj5qe8b6gguh0o@4ax.com...
: On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 15:08:44 -0500, "Bill Garber"
: <willy46pa@comcast.net> wrote:
:
: [snip]
:
: > Jim, I know you've mentioned that the
: >holidays have not been good to you in the past, but
: >please try to enjoy this one, you never know when it will
: >be your last. Merry Christmas and a Joyous New Year to
: >you and yours. :)
: >
: >Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
: >Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
: >Email - willy4SPAM6pa@comXcast.net
: >Remove - SPAM and X to contact me
: >
:
: I don't recall "holidays have not been good to (me) in the
past"?

Sorry, I may have confused you with someone else.

: But this year has certainly been enjoyable... the WHOLE family
was
: here for Thanksgiving with professional photographs of all
: permutations and combinations the next day.

We haven't had a family affair since my folks past
on in '93. Shame too, but my family has always
liked to keep their distance.

: We'll celebrate our Christmas gathering this year on the 26th
so that
: all the Arizona family members can get here; tonight we'll
light
: Hanukkah candle number two for our youngest granddaughter who's
: visiting.

To me Hanukkah is simply the old testament version
of Christmas. Still a joyous event to behold.

: Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Happy "your favorite family
: celebration", and a Joyous New Year to All!!

Thank you much.

Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
Email - willy4SPAM6pa@comXcast.net
Remove - SPAM and X to contact me



---
This email ain't infected, dude!

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.544 / Virus Database: 338 - Release Date: 11/26/03
 
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 08:35:29 -0500, cfharris@erols.com said...
Hey Frank,

There are lots of easy solutions to spam that don't require a tax.

They all involve upping the bar a bit for the spammers. For instance,
instead of using the old smtp (redundant redundancy) mail protocol, use
a system where the originator has to go to a trusted website to send you
a message. The website would use a simple challenge to make sure you
are human (eg. read the multicolor numbers in a picture of a field of
red and yellow flowers.) If you cannot correctly answer the challenge,
you cannot send the message.

Think laterally, my friend.
Click to expand...
And how would you send e-mails to a subsciber base of 10,000 people
on a e-mail discussion list?

Mike
-Chuck

Frank Bemelman wrote:
"Jim Thompson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> schreef in bericht
news:p5s3uvk7mtp9569i0fc61bp6oqusn37vq6@4ax.com...

Our "wonderful" representatives in Congress have passed, and Dubya has
signed into law "Can Spam"....

http://www.analog-innovations.com/Musings/S877CanSpam.pdf

This law is a joke... it requires OPT OUT, thus legalizing a whole
torrent of spam.

I suggest you contact your Representative and your Senators and
suggest that their voting for OPT OUT = VOTE OUT the dummy ;-)


The only practical solution I see, is that ISP should charge
1 cent for each email sent. I wouldn't mind paying 1 cent
for each email I sent.

What I really don't understand are the spammers that sent
messages like 'en.large your pen;s' etc, these guys ought
to be shot in the neck, cut to pieces and fed to the dogs.

I'm getting about 80 spam emails per day now.
Click to expand...
 
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 18:23:15 +0100, fbemelx@euronet.invalid.nl
said...
"Bill Garber" <willy46pa@comcast.net> schreef in bericht
news:nOSdnWxkrMwXHnmiRVn-hA@comcast.com...

One thing you can try is nothing. Simply delete them for
a time, and soon they will remove you by default. Also,
if you Opt-Out, your email addy may be added to other
email lists which can be sold to other vendors. I've been
doing the above, and get maybe 3-4 spam emails per day.
None of them from new vendors. These will soon die off
and I'll be free until I request info for something and
get added to another list.

I never opt-out, since these opt-outs often contain a
defective link anyway.

What I also don't understand why US based companies don't
filter foreign addresses.
Click to expand...
There goes my e-mail responses from everyone overseas.

A minute ago I got an offer for
a Ronco chicken grill, but they only ship to US and Canada.
Click to expand...
 
Bill Garber wrote:

To me Hanukkah is simply the old testament version
of Christmas. Still a joyous event to behold.
Click to expand...
Let me see if I have this straight. We have CHRIST-mas, celebrating the
birth of Jesus Christ, who was framed and MURDERED by a bunch of power
hungry old Jews ( through the Romans because they were too chickensh_t
to do it themselves)- not much unlike the Arab scumbags we're
annihilating today- and you say "Hanukkah" is the Old Testament version
of Christmas? Reconciliation is good- but revisionism on this scale is
obscene.
 
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 15:42:16 -0500, willy46pa@comcast.net said...
"Jim Thompson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:sqb9uv0d6k98jccm7ru9rj5qe8b6gguh0o@4ax.com...
: On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 15:08:44 -0500, "Bill Garber"
: <willy46pa@comcast.net> wrote:
:
: [snip]
:
: > Jim, I know you've mentioned that the
: >holidays have not been good to you in the past, but
: >please try to enjoy this one, you never know when it will
: >be your last. Merry Christmas and a Joyous New Year to
: >you and yours. :)
:
: >Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
: >Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
: >Email - willy4SPAM6pa@comXcast.net
: >Remove - SPAM and X to contact me
:
:
: I don't recall "holidays have not been good to (me) in the
past"?

Sorry, I may have confused you with someone else.

: But this year has certainly been enjoyable... the WHOLE family
was
: here for Thanksgiving with professional photographs of all
: permutations and combinations the next day.

We haven't had a family affair since my folks past
on in '93. Shame too, but my family has always
liked to keep their distance.

: We'll celebrate our Christmas gathering this year on the 26th
so that
: all the Arizona family members can get here; tonight we'll
light
: Hanukkah candle number two for our youngest granddaughter who's
: visiting.

To me Hanukkah is simply the old testament version
of Christmas. Still a joyous event to behold.
Click to expand...
Tell that to a Jew.

Funny you should mention that and I don't want to pluck anyone's
nerves, but I couldn't help but wonder if the ADL's attempt to ban
nativity scenes in public schools had anything to do with the 10
commandments being removed from the entrance of that courthouse
building down south.

Here, last year, there was bitching about xmas music over the PA's
at Blu U (basically a teacher's college). Some professor (per fes
cur?) helped foul all that up.

All I know is that the last Jew I worked with grew up around here
and was subjected to the nativity scenes, xmas carols, etc. It
didn't offend him or make him change his faith.

So what's all the bitching about? Oh, that's right... Some people
aren't happy if they're not starting or slinging shit.

Mike
: Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Happy "your favorite family
: celebration", and a Joyous New Year to All!!

Thank you much.

Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
Email - willy4SPAM6pa@comXcast.net
Remove - SPAM and X to contact me



---
This email ain't infected, dude!

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.544 / Virus Database: 338 - Release Date: 11/26/03
Click to expand...
 
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 14:19:54 -0500, dvanhorn@cedar.net said...
One thing you can try is nothing. Simply delete them for
a time, and soon they will remove you by default.

That's why I'm still getting hundreds a day then, because I've been just
deleting them for over two years...


A bounce is better, but only if it bouces to where it came from.
Click to expand...
You don't want to bounce to a forged addy belonging to your
neighbor. www.mailwasher.net allows you to preview and delete the
crap without downloading it which can generate a receipt.

Mike
 
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 15:19:23 -0500, willy46pa@comcast.net said...
"Mike Page" <mike@SCRUBeclectic-CAPSweb.BLAMEco.SWENuk> wrote in
message news:1071950934.937723@ananke.eclipse.net.uk...
: Bill Garber wrote:
:
: > One thing you can try is nothing. Simply delete them for
: > a time, and soon they will remove you by default.
:
: Wrong.

A fine display of the scripture quoted in large
bold letters right on your web page. See Below.

"The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace,
patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
gentleness, self-control; against such things
there is no law.
Galatians 5:22-23

Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
Email - willy4SPAM6pa@comXcast.net
Click to expand...

Remove - SPAM and X to contact me
Click to expand...
Why? All I or a spammer has to do is grab your reply address from
this post. You're toast ;)

Mike
---
This email ain't infected, dude!

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.544 / Virus Database: 338 - Release Date: 11/26/03
Click to expand...
 
"Fred Bloggs" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:3FE4CB38.2030900@nospam.com...
:
: Bill Garber wrote:
: >
: > To me Hanukkah is simply the old testament version
: > of Christmas. Still a joyous event to behold.
:
: Let me see if I have this straight. We have CHRIST-mas,
celebrating the
: birth of Jesus Christ, who was framed and MURDERED by a bunch
of power
: hungry old Jews ( through the Romans because they were too
chickensh_t
: to do it themselves)- not much unlike the Arab scumbags we're
: annihilating today- and you say "Hanukkah" is the Old Testament
version
: of Christmas? Reconciliation is good- but revisionism on this
scale is
: obscene.

You're still thinking of God as a concept and Jesus
as a man who proclaimed himself to be the human side
of that concept, when they are neither. Jesus was not
framed, he gave himself up. Don't you think that the
Son of the Almighty GOD could have simply made himself
disappear and not have to go through that persecution?

Read this short page, and you'll understand the similarity.

http://www.hanukkah-traditions.com/

The Jews overcame another culture attempting to
remove and replace their faith and belief.

They overcame the same oppresions when Jesus came
and died for them so they could be resolved of sin,
but many refusing to believe that Jesus was the Son
Of GOD and Messiah (first coming), denounced him and
that is why we have Hanukkah and Christmas. Had they
believed, we may only have Christmas. Maybe not. We
could still be celebrating both, since both happened.

Anyway, until you have faith and belief in Almighty
GOD and the SON and the HOLY SPIRIT, then no amount
of explanation will suffice for you, so I have more
than likely "cast my seed upon the stone".

Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
Email - willy4SPAM6pa@comXcast.net
Remove - SPAM and X to contact me



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