OT: United States of Feeding Tubes

Jim Thompson · Mar 25, 2005

On 24 Mar 2005 16:20:36 -0800, Winfield Hill
<hill_a@t_rowland-dotties-harvard-dot.s-edu> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote...

I wouldn't even have a problem if you wanted to smoke a little pot ;-)

What, never touch the stuff, or other drugs either for that matter.
Just because I hate Bush doesn't mean I'm a hippie.

I don't that stuff either... my personality doesn't support
"out-of-touch"

Have you evaluated those power FET models yet? I'm interested to
know which model is valid, and for what reasons.

Actually, I just returned from a few vacation days in FL, and despite
many recommendations otherwise, took my new laptop along. And yes,
I spent a few hours poking around with 11 different 2n7000 models.

It's amazing how much difference there is between them. None of them
do well in the subthreshold region. Moreover, a paralleled 6M drain-
source resistor, used by several of them, is not my idea of predicting
low-current performance!

Some use subcircuits and add extra fixed capacitances here and there,
such as Philips' 12.3pF, and Anasoft's 23.5pF or 27.4pF gate-source.
I wonder how they come up with those particular values? Strange,
these folks don't see the value of adding series source inductance.

Some attempt to model fast switching, but sadly fall short. Adding a
343-ohm series gate resistor, as a few do, certainly does not suffice!
And where do they get such an odd precise value? 343 ohms, sheesh!

In my distant past I built my own subcircuits to account for gate
charge effects in large FETs. But I've long ago gotten away from
power circuits.

I'm just ramping up my attention to these models, and am getting more
interested. Tell me more about how you imagine using the FETs...

I was just musing over whether I could build a better mousetrap, aka
audio power amplifier, than any of the toob pretenders. (I'm sure I
can

But then you asked some questions, and resurrected my innate curiosity
about device modeling.

In the late '80's I and another fellow, contracting at
Sperry/Honeywell Space Systems Division, developed a subcircuit add-on
to the typical MOSFET model, to account for the "funny" gate-charge
curve.

So I am open to ideas/suggestions/etc. Have an idea, I'll try it out
here in PSpice and let you know the results.

I also have SmartSpice and TTSpiceWorks (and LTspice

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Rich Grise · Mar 25, 2005

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:20:36 -0800, Winfield Hill wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote...

I wouldn't even have a problem if you wanted to smoke a little pot ;-)

What, never touch the stuff, or other drugs either for that matter.

That's the coolest, albeit possibly most overlooked, part of Freedom:
You don't have to do what you don't want to do.

Cheers!
Rich

John Woodgate · Mar 25, 2005

I read in sci.electronics.design that Winfield Hill
<hill_a@t_rowland-dotties-harvard-dot.s-edu> wrote (in
<d1vlgk01deq@drn.newsguy.com&gt

about '2n7000 spice models', on Thu, 24
Mar 2005:

343 ohms, sheesh!

Orange, yellow, orange, black, black. Somebody squashed a wasp on the
schematic?
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

xray · Mar 25, 2005

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 18:30:35 -0700, Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

So I am open to ideas/suggestions/etc. Have an idea, I'll try it out
here in PSpice and let you know the results.

I also have SmartSpice and TTSpiceWorks (and LTspice , so we can
make some simulator comparisons as well.

...Jim Thompson
-

Jim won't read this because he blocked me, but I used to like him when
this was his main sort of communication in the group. I respect that.
Good stuff for everyone who is paying attention.

I do still hate him for his well publicised politics though.

John Woodgate · Mar 25, 2005

I read in sci.electronics.design that xray <notreally@hotmail.invalid>
wrote (in <ofm741tc67sggehmhqd5l1afcvpbcs7i6m@4ax.com&gt

about '2n7000
spice models', on Fri, 25 Mar 2005:

I do still hate him for his well publicised politics though.

'Hate' is a real big word for differences of opinion between rational
adults. No political party gets it right: they just make different
mistakes.

You might well find life in Zimbabwe at present rather less comfortable
than under Bush. Actually, you might well need to hide in the bush!
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

Winfield Hill · Mar 25, 2005

Michael A. Terrell wrote...

Winfield Hill wrote:

Actually, I just returned from a few vacation days in FL...

What part of Florida did you visit and how was the weather where you
were staying? Its been strange here lately. Cold for a few days, then
hot enough to need the AC and some heavy storms and tornado watches.

Hobe Sound, north of West Palm Beach and just south of Stuart. The
weather was nice in part, but a small intense storm cell extended
across the Okechobee, concentrated on us and persisted a few days,
with heavy rain, wind and lightning. We got two short walks on the
beach, with no beach sunning then, but there was one morning of sun
at the community pool. I got enough sun to develop a little fever.

I spent most of my time repairing my wife's mom's HP Windows Me
computer, which could no longer dialup and go online, and whose CD
drive was dead. I replaced the modem and the CD drive, and added
RAM (it only had 64MB, less 11MB for mobo graphics). The problem
turned out to be a corrupted Windows registry, which I discerned by
Googling a rather cryptic error message. This I fixed with the
"scanreg" command. Hmm, I winder, did scanreg merely replace the
registry with a previous saved copy, thereby undoing the program
installs I had made during the repair / upgrade, like the CD's RW
capability, the modem's new "Internet-on-hold" phone-line feature,
etc.? <sigh> I did see that scanreg destroyed the desktop cleanup
activity I had done.

My scanreg repair efforts were finished only a few minutes before we
had to leave for the plane, so I had to leave it as is. At least
my wife says the computer "runs like butter" now.

--
Thanks,
- Win

Winfield Hill · Mar 25, 2005

John Woodgate wrote...

Winfield Hill wrote ...

343 ohms, sheesh!

Orange, yellow, orange, black, black. Somebody squashed a wasp
on the schematic?

Hah! The closest 1% values are 340 and 348 ohms. Values like
343 ohms are only found in homework answers and in spice models.

--
Thanks,
- Win

John Woodgate · Mar 25, 2005

I read in sci.electronics.design that Winfield Hill
<hill_a@t_rowland-dotties-harvard-dot.s-edu> wrote (in
<d20qg401eq0@drn.newsguy.com&gt

about '2n7000 spice models', on Fri, 25
Mar 2005:

Hobe Sound, north of West Palm Beach and just south of Stuart. The
weather was nice in part, but a small intense storm cell extended
across the Okechobee, concentrated on us and persisted a few days,
with heavy rain, wind and lightning.

All Bush's fault.(;-)
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

Winfield Hill · Mar 25, 2005

Jim Thompson wrote...

Winfield Hill wrote...

I'm just ramping up my attention to these models, and am getting more
interested. Tell me more about how you imagine using the FETs...

I was just musing over whether I could build a better mousetrap, aka
audio power amplifier, than any of the toob pretenders. (I'm sure I
can

What, a MOSFET replacement for a tube amp? The 2n7000 is pretty wimpy
for use in audio hifi amps, since it fails to make it much beyond 60V.

But then you asked some questions, and resurrected my innate curiosity
about device modeling.

In the late '80's I and another fellow, contracting at
Sperry/Honeywell Space Systems Division, developed a subcircuit add-on
to the typical MOSFET model, to account for the "funny" gate-charge
curve.

Yes, lots of MOSFET models have such weird structures. But I'm not
comfortable with the use of switches inside the models, as some use.
The Philips 2n7000 model you posted employs a 2nd MOSFET to switch
extra Cdg capacitance, with a dc-floating drain connection.

..SUBCKT 2N7000/PLP 1 2 3
Cgs 2 3 12.3E-12
Cgd1 2 4 27.4E-12
Cgd2 1 4 6E-12
M1 1 2 3 3 MOST1
M2 4 2 1 3 MOST2
D1 3 1 Dbody
..MODEL MOST1 NMOS(Level=3 Kp=20.78u W=9.7m L=2u Rs=20m Vto=2 Rd=1.186)
..MODEL MOST2 NMOS(VTO=-4.73 Kp=20.78u W=9.7m L=2u Rs=20m)
..MODEL Dbody D(Is=125f N=1.023 Rs=1.281 Ikf=18.01 Cjo=46.3p M=.3423
+ Vj=.4519 Bv=60 Ibv=10u Tt=161.6n)
..ENDS

This model can be drawn as a schematic,

.. Cgd1 27.4pF Cgd2 6pF
.. ,----||----+----||-----+---o D
.. | | |
.. | |--' M2 |
.. | ,---||<---------, |
.. | | |-------, | |
.. | | | | |
.. | | |---+--| --+
.. G o---+--+--+----||<-----+ _|_
.. | |---, | /_\ D1
.. | Cgs M1 | | |
.. '--||-----+--+---+---o S

M2 turns on when the gate voltage is well above the drain voltage,
increasing the Cdg capacitance. As you may remember, I prefer the
CF Wheatley and HR Ronan approach, which adds a depletion-mode JFET
in series with the drain, limiting the primary Cgd charge voltage.
http://www.electronics-forum.info/cad/Modeling_MOSFET_Capacitance_45819.html

The Wheatley and Ronan model looks something like this.

.. ,----||------+----------+---o D
.. | Cgd2 | |
.. | small '--| J1 |
.. | ,--|<--, |
.. | Cgd1 | | |
.. +----||------+ | |
.. | large | | |
.. | |---' | |
.. G o---+--+----||<-----, | _|_
.. | |---, | | /_\ D1
.. | Cgs M1 | | | |
.. '--||-----+--+---+---+---o S

This model also has an analog in the MOSFET's physical structure,
http://www.nalanda.nitc.ac.in/industry/appnotes/Intersil/an8610.pdf
Some of the app notes describe how to determine this model's values,
http://www.nalanda.nitc.ac.in/industry/appnotes/Intersil/an7260.pdf
http://www.powerdesigners.com/InfoWeb/design_center/Appnotes_Archive/an9209.pdf

So I am open to ideas/suggestions/etc. Have an idea, I'll try it out
here in PSpice and let you know the results.

I also have SmartSpice and TTSpiceWorks (and LTspice , so we can
make some simulator comparisons as well.

They should all give the same answer, shouldn't they?

--
Thanks,
- Win

Winfield Hill · Mar 25, 2005

John Woodgate wrote...

Winfield Hill wrote ...

... a small intense storm cell extended across the Okechobee,
concentrated on us and persisted a few days, with heavy rain,
wind and lightning.

All Bush's fault.(;-)

Yes, GW's brother, Jeb Bush, the governor of Florida. I blame him.

--
Thanks,
- Win

Jim Thompson · Mar 25, 2005

On 25 Mar 2005 05:06:26 -0800, Winfield Hill
<hill_a@t_rowland-dotties-harvard-dot.s-edu> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote...

Winfield Hill wrote...

I'm just ramping up my attention to these models, and am getting more
interested. Tell me more about how you imagine using the FETs...

I was just musing over whether I could build a better mousetrap, aka
audio power amplifier, than any of the toob pretenders. (I'm sure I
can

What, a MOSFET replacement for a tube amp? The 2n7000 is pretty wimpy
for use in audio hifi amps, since it fails to make it much beyond 60V.

I was just going to make a little 30W thingy. I'm into multi-amps
anyway, with crossovers BEFORE the amplifiers, so individual
amplifiers don't need excessive power.

But I did design and build a 400W (BJT) amplifier about 35 years
ago... Next door neighbor was manager for Anthony Pools, and had a
teenage son with an aversion to studying. The father asked if I could
tutor the kid in math. The kid was resistant... until I said, "Get an
"A" and we'll build a honking guitar amplifier".

Damned if he didn't get the "A", so we built the amplifier.

Then his "band" would practice in their carport :-(

Fortunately they almost immediately moved away to Arlington, VA ;-)

But then you asked some questions, and resurrected my innate curiosity
about device modeling.

In the late '80's I and another fellow, contracting at
Sperry/Honeywell Space Systems Division, developed a subcircuit add-on
to the typical MOSFET model, to account for the "funny" gate-charge
curve.

Yes, lots of MOSFET models have such weird structures. But I'm not
comfortable with the use of switches inside the models, as some use.

I'm not at all comfortable with switches either. I'm sure my old
Sperry approach did not use switches. I'll dig thru my ancient
archives and see if I can find how I derived it.

The Philips 2n7000 model you posted employs a 2nd MOSFET to switch
extra Cdg capacitance, with a dc-floating drain connection.

.SUBCKT 2N7000/PLP 1 2 3
Cgs 2 3 12.3E-12
Cgd1 2 4 27.4E-12
Cgd2 1 4 6E-12
M1 1 2 3 3 MOST1
M2 4 2 1 3 MOST2
D1 3 1 Dbody
.MODEL MOST1 NMOS(Level=3 Kp=20.78u W=9.7m L=2u Rs=20m Vto=2 Rd=1.186)
.MODEL MOST2 NMOS(VTO=-4.73 Kp=20.78u W=9.7m L=2u Rs=20m)
.MODEL Dbody D(Is=125f N=1.023 Rs=1.281 Ikf=18.01 Cjo=46.3p M=.3423
+ Vj=.4519 Bv=60 Ibv=10u Tt=161.6n)
.ENDS

This model can be drawn as a schematic,

. Cgd1 27.4pF Cgd2 6pF
. ,----||----+----||-----+---o D
. | | |
. | |--' M2 |
. | ,---||<---------, |
. | | |-------, | |
. | | | | |
. | | |---+--| --+
. G o---+--+--+----||<-----+ _|_
. | |---, | /_\ D1
. | Cgs M1 | | |
. '--||-----+--+---+---o S

M2 turns on when the gate voltage is well above the drain voltage,
increasing the Cdg capacitance. As you may remember, I prefer the
CF Wheatley and HR Ronan approach, which adds a depletion-mode JFET
in series with the drain, limiting the primary Cgd charge voltage.
http://www.electronics-forum.info/cad/Modeling_MOSFET_Capacitance_45819.html

The Wheatley and Ronan model looks something like this.

. ,----||------+----------+---o D
. | Cgd2 | |
. | small '--| J1 |
. | ,--|<--, |
. | Cgd1 | | |
. +----||------+ | |
. | large | | |
. | |---' | |
. G o---+--+----||<-----, | _|_
. | |---, | | /_\ D1
. | Cgs M1 | | | |
. '--||-----+--+---+---+---o S

This model also has an analog in the MOSFET's physical structure,
http://www.nalanda.nitc.ac.in/industry/appnotes/Intersil/an8610.pdf
Some of the app notes describe how to determine this model's values,
http://www.nalanda.nitc.ac.in/industry/appnotes/Intersil/an7260.pdf
http://www.powerdesigners.com/InfoWeb/design_center/Appnotes_Archive/an9209.pdf

Thanks! I'll look thru the literature and see what I can find.

So I am open to ideas/suggestions/etc. Have an idea, I'll try it out
here in PSpice and let you know the results.

I also have SmartSpice and TTSpiceWorks (and LTspice , so we can
make some simulator comparisons as well.

They should all give the same answer, shouldn't they?

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

hamilton · Mar 22, 2005

Its a US republication ( I want to get voted back into office again ) thing.

Genome wrote:

"Rock" <rolavine@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1111457086.763559.270770@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Bush flew back to DC from vacation, congress meet during the

weekend,

and after all that they couldn't upgrade to a feeding transistor!

OK, I have to try out these damn jokes somewhere!

DC ahaa ahaa....

Transistor ahaa ahaa....

No, nice on topic post but.... I don't get it.

Is this an American thing?

DNA

Jim Thompson · Mar 25, 2005

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 09:28:27 GMT, xray <notreally@hotmail.invalid>
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 18:30:35 -0700, Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

So I am open to ideas/suggestions/etc. Have an idea, I'll try it out
here in PSpice and let you know the results.

I also have SmartSpice and TTSpiceWorks (and LTspice , so we can
make some simulator comparisons as well.

...Jim Thompson
-

Jim won't read this because he blocked me, but I used to like him when
this was his main sort of communication in the group. I respect that.
Good stuff for everyone who is paying attention.

I do still hate him for his well publicised politics though.

My well "publicised" politics represent the type of personality that
beat the Brits, in the Revolution, against _insurmountable_ odds.

I'm sorry you hate me, so please expire promptly, choking on your bile
;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Phil Hobbs · Mar 22, 2005

Genome wrote:

"xray" <notreally@hotmail.invalid> wrote in message
news:vmcv31t9gvpnejknn519p12o3n3s1edfp8@4ax.com...

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 03:32:45 GMT, "Genome" <ilike_spam@yahoo.co.uk
wrote:

"Rock" <rolavine@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1111457086.763559.270770@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Bush flew back to DC from vacation, congress meet during the

weekend,

and after all that they couldn't upgrade to a feeding transistor!

OK, I have to try out these damn jokes somewhere!

DC ahaa ahaa....

Transistor ahaa ahaa....

No, nice on topic post but.... I don't get it.

Is this an American thing?

DNA

With you, Genome, its hard to tell for sure, but I'll assume you

really

don't know what this is about, and I'll be straight man.

I don't recall all the details, but in essence...
There is a woman in Florida whose brain got fried some years back (I
think it was a high fever and I think about 10 yrs ago). Since then

she

has been in a vegetative state and is kept alive by the medical

center

where she is. Her husband wants to let her die but her parents want

her

kept alive. She didn't document her wishes in writing before this
unfortunate turn of events. It has been fought in courts for years.

A

couple days ago the court finally ruled with the husband's view and

her

feeding tube was removed.

Today the US Congress passed special legislation to reopen this

issue.

GWB grabbed his bible and headed back to Washington DC from vacation

to

join in the festivities.

Yes it is an American thing. Sadam not involved this time. Get it

now?

I do, and thanks.

DNA

The point being, whether it's OK to starve someone to death because

she's too damaged to feed herself. Not the same thing as unplugging the
respirator.

Cheers,

Phil Hobbs

Jim Thompson · Mar 26, 2005

On 25 Mar 2005 05:06:26 -0800, Winfield Hill
<hill_a@t_rowland-dotties-harvard-dot.s-edu> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote...

Winfield Hill wrote...

I'm just ramping up my attention to these models, and am getting more
interested. Tell me more about how you imagine using the FETs...

[snip]

I was looking thru "pwrmos.lib" in the new OrCAD/PSpice release...
everything is STILL Level=3.

So I think the problem is the manufacturers don't care about spending
money on quality modeling.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Jim Thompson · Mar 26, 2005

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 18:21:15 -0700, Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

On 25 Mar 2005 05:06:26 -0800, Winfield Hill
hill_a@t_rowland-dotties-harvard-dot.s-edu> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote...

Winfield Hill wrote...

I'm just ramping up my attention to these models, and am getting more
interested. Tell me more about how you imagine using the FETs...

[snip]

I was looking thru "pwrmos.lib" in the new OrCAD/PSpice release...
everything is STILL Level=3.

So I think the problem is the manufacturers don't care about spending
money on quality modeling.

...Jim Thompson

It's literally been just shy of 20 years since I designed anything
with a power-FET, and _most_ of my I/C foundry CMOS models do seem to
work subthreshold (for small-signal analog).

Win, WHAT is important to you in power-FET modeling, subthreshold?

Maybe we can mutually determine the "fix" for the models?

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Mark Jones · Mar 26, 2005

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 09:28:27 GMT, xray <notreally@hotmail.invalid
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 18:30:35 -0700, Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

So I am open to ideas/suggestions/etc. Have an idea, I'll try it out
here in PSpice and let you know the results.

I also have SmartSpice and TTSpiceWorks (and LTspice , so we can
make some simulator comparisons as well.

...Jim Thompson
-

Jim won't read this because he blocked me, but I used to like him when
this was his main sort of communication in the group. I respect that.
Good stuff for everyone who is paying attention.

I do still hate him for his well publicised politics though.

My well "publicised" politics represent the type of personality that
beat the Brits, in the Revolution, against _insurmountable_ odds.

I'm sorry you hate me, so please expire promptly, choking on your bile
;-)

...Jim Thompson

The northen-US equivalent to that is: Eat Shit and Die.

Winfield Hill · Mar 26, 2005

Jim Thompson wrote...

Jim Thompson wrote:

[snip]
I was looking thru "pwrmos.lib" in the new OrCAD/PSpice release...
everything is STILL Level=3.
So I think the problem is the manufacturers don't care about
spending money on quality modeling.

It's literally been just shy of 20 years since I designed anything
with a power-FET, and _most_ of my I/C foundry CMOS models do seem to
work subthreshold (for small-signal analog).

Win, WHAT is important to you in power-FET modeling, subthreshold?

Maybe we can mutually determine the "fix" for the models?

OK, here's what I wrote early in the discussion, last December 31st,

Well, then surely you'll want viable Spice MOSFET models, because
you'll be using the FETs throughout their useful linear range, and
the output-stage crossover region is critical.

Sadly most standard Spice library VMOS models simply don't do the
subthreshold linear region. For example, see the 10-decade plots
on page 123 of our book. A jellybean 2n7000 is rather similar to
the VN01 that we show in figure 3.14, and certainly a proper Spice
model should be able to make that plot. But I'd be surprised if
your standard Spice libraries work properly below say 5 to 20mA,
which is not that far below the FET's maximum current. Keep in
mind that linear power FET circuitry always operates well below
the maximum rated FET switching current, to keep power dissipation
junction heating under control.

I since confirmed this with some 2n7000 Spice-model testing...
the SQRT-Id plot goes to zero at 2.4V (wrong answer), an abrupt
transition occurs at 9mA (wrong), and another at 2mA (gross), to
a 5-decade subthreshold exponential transconductance (correct) at
Vgs = 2.4V (wrong). Rather useless for linear-circuit modeling.

The bottom line is you'll have to start your FET-amplifier design
exercise by designing some decent FET models. Let us know what you
come up with.

With respect to the Id-vs-Vgs curves on page 123 of our book, and
the g_m plots on page 132, the spice models should be able to show
this performance. At subthreshold currents a FET acts very much
like a transistor with respect to transconductance, etc., and when
a power FET is used in linear audio amplifiers, e.g. in class AB,
it may go through this region during each cycle. So in using Spice
to determine distortion and evaluate various design configurations,
surely it's necessary for the FET model to smoothly simulate the
subthreshold region, and properly progress to the current-saturated
regions that are normally accurately modeled. I'm going to go in
to the lab and take some detailed 2n7000 measurements later today.

--
Thanks,
- Win

Rich Grise · Mar 26, 2005

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 18:21:15 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

On 25 Mar 2005 05:06:26 -0800, Winfield Hill
hill_a@t_rowland-dotties-harvard-dot.s-edu> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote...

Winfield Hill wrote...

I'm just ramping up my attention to these models, and am getting more
interested. Tell me more about how you imagine using the FETs...

[snip]

I was looking thru "pwrmos.lib" in the new OrCAD/PSpice release...
everything is STILL Level=3.

So I think the problem is the manufacturers don't care about spending
money on quality modeling.

Of course not. Why should a vendor want you to simulate their parts when
you could buy them?

Cheers!
Rich

Jim Thompson · Mar 26, 2005

On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 12:16:31 -0500, Mark Jones <abuse@127.0.0.1>
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 09:28:27 GMT, xray <notreally@hotmail.invalid
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 18:30:35 -0700, Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

So I am open to ideas/suggestions/etc. Have an idea, I'll try it out
here in PSpice and let you know the results.

I also have SmartSpice and TTSpiceWorks (and LTspice , so we can
make some simulator comparisons as well.

...Jim Thompson
-

Jim won't read this because he blocked me, but I used to like him when
this was his main sort of communication in the group. I respect that.
Good stuff for everyone who is paying attention.

I do still hate him for his well publicised politics though.

My well "publicised" politics represent the type of personality that
beat the Brits, in the Revolution, against _insurmountable_ odds.

I'm sorry you hate me, so please expire promptly, choking on your bile
;-)

...Jim Thompson

The northen-US equivalent to that is: Eat Shit and Die.

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