OT: Sanctions...

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Monday, March 28, 2022 at 7:49:40 AM UTC+11, John Doe wrote:
> Russia allegedly pulled back a bit, before taking out fuel depots.

It may not be losing the war, but it certainly hasn\'t won it. They do seem to have realised that they have been trying to bite off more than they can chew, and are starting to scale down their ambitions

> For sure, Russia is not going rampant like the reactionary warmongers say,

Launching an invasion and using bombing and shelling to reduce a number of cities to rubble is pretty close to being about as rampant as you can get. John Doe keeps wondering why they don\'t use nuclear weapons, which does remind us just how stupid he us.

> but I have a hunch it might be very limited.

They haven\'t won anything significant yet, so Ukraine\'s defense has limited them quite severely.

>Like maybe they will bring Ukraine to its knees (where it should be already) without destroying its capital city.

Why should the Ukraine be n it\'s knees already? John Doe does seem to think that it isn\'t mounting an effective defense but the phrase \"does seem to think\" implies that John Doe could think, which is obviously false

> Bombing its railroads would be a killer, without injury or death.

They don\'t stay bombed for long, unless you systematically kill off the repair crews. John Doe hasn\'t got any grasp of reality.

--
Bill Sloman. Sydney

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Monday, March 28, 2022 at 11:10:27 AM UTC+11, John Doe wrote:

Sylvia Else wrote:

John Doe wrote:

I don\'t understand why we are putting sanctions on Russia. THE SANCTIONS
ARE HURTING AMERICANS MORE THAN RUSSIA\'S INVASION OF UKRAINE HURT
AMERICANS. Seems lots of people want to hurt Russia more than they want to
help their own country.

See it as evidence that Americans don\'t just think about themselves.
That\'s a positive thing.

Apparently about 99% of the people who think Ukraine is The Holy Land also hate Donald Trump.

Since nobody thinks of the Ukraine as The Holy Land, this is John Doe talking about figments of his diseased imagination, as usual.

Pretty much nobody bothers to hate Donald Trump. Pretty much everybody with any sense despises him, but he\'s an ineffectual windbag, so it\'s not worth hating him.

> I see it as evidence of politics, imperialism, the New World Order, warmongering, passive-aggressiveness, propaganda, etc.

John Doe\'s vision of the world merely reflects his terminal stupidity. He is a moron and has very silly ideas.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Monday, March 28, 2022 at 1:05:15 PM UTC+11, palli...@gmail.com wrote:

Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
======================

** Have you studied any WW2 history at all ???

Cos your pig ignorance is fucking staggering.

Phill hasn\'t bothered to point out where Gerhard Hoffmann got anything wrong. I\'ve got no idea what Phil might think that he had got wrong. Phil does seem to be off his meds, so there not a lot of point in wondering what he might have had in what\'s left of his mind.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Phil Allison]

Gerhard Hoffmann Child wrote:
=========================

Where should the millions of lives be saved that you talk about?

Further deaths in battle, in the streets of Japan. And starvation of
the Japanese population.

Nuke them. Otherwise they might starve to death.

** Ok, so you have done no reading at all.

You could start with Wiki and follow the links.
Till you have - SHUT the FUCK UP !!



....... Phil

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Monday, March 28, 2022 at 2:29:49 PM UTC+11, palli...@gmail.com wrote:

Gerhard Hoffmann Child wrote:
=========================

Where should the millions of lives be saved that you talk about?

Further deaths in battle, in the streets of Japan. And starvation of
the Japanese population.

Nuke them. Otherwise they might starve to death.

** Ok, so you have done no reading at all.

You could start with Wiki and follow the links.
Till you have - SHUT the FUCK UP !!

Phil doesn\'t seem to have done the reading he should have done - too much Sky/Fox News and not enough of anything reliable.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[David Eather]

I found something (two facts) that helped put the nuclear bombings in
perspective. It was believed by the US that and invasion of the home
lands would take 12 months at least to defeat Japan if it was even possible.

Unrelated in 1945 the Japanese were killing about 10 thousand civilians
PER MONTH in the territories they occupied.

So 3 months to prepare for an invasion, 12 months of fighting would be
about 150,000 civilian casualties in the Japanese occupied territories.
That\'s a lot of reasons to accept the bomb drops as a necessary evil
(plus add Japanese and US losses during an invasion)

 

[David Eather]

On 28/03/2022 6:38 am, John Doe wrote:

Speaking of less advanced civilizations, I have been getting a good look
at Ukraine.

Busy intersections without streetlights or stop signs... And it snows
there!

I\'m pretty sure Ukraine is full of natural resources, but Russia looks
more advanced, so where is the money going...

...





John Doe <always.look@message.header> wrote:

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

That will make the rest of the population yet more tribal.

They are tougher than Westerners, they might be less sophisticated, but
our population is getting really weird.

Ukraine was a sovereign country with hundreds of years of history. It
was invaded in 1917 by the Soviets. So not actually \"always a part of
Russia\" like Putler would claim. And I think Ukraine more than paid for
it\'s freedom when The Soviets stole their grain in the 1930\'s and
starved 20 million Ukrainians to death.

That also so the even handedness and respect the Soviets showed and show
to Ukraine.

 

[Phil Allison]

David Eather wrote:
================

I found something (two facts) that helped put the nuclear bombings in
perspective. It was believed by the US that and invasion of the home
lands would take 12 months at least to defeat Japan if it was even possible.

Unrelated in 1945 the Japanese were killing about 10 thousand civilians
PER MONTH in the territories they occupied.

So 3 months to prepare for an invasion, 12 months of fighting would be
about 150,000 civilian casualties in the Japanese occupied territories.

That\'s a lot of reasons to accept the bomb drops as a necessary evil
(plus add Japanese and US losses during an invasion)

** Another factor US leaders had to consider was potential consequences of NOT using their nukes.

US parents would naturally ask why, after spending *massive funds* on developing the things,
they were not used to end the war quickly so saving the lives of hundreds of thousands of their young
son\'s lives.

Japanese had consistently shown ZERO respect for any and all human life throughout the war THEY started.
Check out the: \" Rape of Nanking \" for some disturbing bedtime reading.

The events around that time are so horrific & shameful that Japan has pretty much eradicated them from history books.
Heaps of young and many Japanese adults have no clue about the CRIMINAL role their country played in WW2.

Huge credit goes to the US for treating Japanese citizens with full respect soon as fighting ceased.
Japan was rebuilt, fast as possible, with local officials kept in place as before hostilities began.
The only land taken over permanently was that needed to bury US dead.


...... Phil

 

[Joe Gwinn]

On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 18:40:03 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 03:18:12 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de
wrote:

Am 28.03.22 um 00:44 schrieb jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com:
On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 16:59:35 -0400, Ralph Mowery
rmowery42@charter.net> wrote:

In article <e710a2c0-f7fe-45ac-acc7-7b79dec81d6bn@googlegroups.com>,
edward.ming.lee@gmail.com says...

Yes, US would probably invade Mexico. But US military is not allowed to bomb apt/school/hospital and kill unarmed civilian.



This must be after ww2 where the US bombed two cities with nukies and
fire bombed another city that I believe killed more civilians than the
nukes did in Japan.

It was total war and the Japanese were on a deliberate national
suicide mission. The nukes shocked them into surrendering and likely
saved millions of lives.

What a shit. There were razed out civilian towns in Japan
by the dozens, just by conventional means, aka Dresden style.
(Dresden as witnessed by the mother of my ex, not that
I like her too much).

H and N were just another 2 towns. Just more efficient.
And the only question to be solved was just if the Tenno
would be a war criminal or remain god.

The Japanese had the irrational hope that Stalin might act
as a mediator. They gave up within hours when Stalin took
some of their islands instead, STILL discussed by diplomates
in Moscow as of last week.

Where should the millions of lives be saved that you talk about?

Further deaths in battle, in the streets of Japan. And starvation of
the Japanese population.

Yes. Let us analyze this from the standpoint of the Japanese
population.

The US and allies were going to invade the mainland islands of Japan,
and the Japanese military was going to fight to the death trying to
stop the invaders. In total, millions of soldiers of both sides would
die in the clashes, based on estimates from the US campaign to eject
the Japanese from the Pacific islands.

In round numbers, Japan has the population of the US crammed into an
area about that of the US state of California. Japan\'s food
production is just big enough to sustain the population in ordinary
times, from time to time there were notable famines caused by bad
weather.

Having two large armies fighting to the death in Japan will pretty
much prevent farming and fishing, and so is guaranteed to cause a
major famine while laying Japan waste, likely killing a factor more
ordinary people than soldiers. Tens of millions at the very least.

The total killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki is estimates to be at most
226,000 people.

The Japanese knew immediately that the weapon had to be atomic, and
when Nagasaki was hit, they knew that the US had more than one such
bomb, and so could continue using such bombs.

It was this that convinced the Emperor to overrule his military,
ending WW2, preventing the physical destruction of much of Japan.

So, the atomic bomb was a very good deal for the Japanese population.

Joe Gwinn

 

[John Larkin]

On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 11:51:53 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 18:40:03 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 03:18:12 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de
wrote:

Am 28.03.22 um 00:44 schrieb jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com:
On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 16:59:35 -0400, Ralph Mowery
rmowery42@charter.net> wrote:

In article <e710a2c0-f7fe-45ac-acc7-7b79dec81d6bn@googlegroups.com>,
edward.ming.lee@gmail.com says...

Yes, US would probably invade Mexico. But US military is not allowed to bomb apt/school/hospital and kill unarmed civilian.



This must be after ww2 where the US bombed two cities with nukies and
fire bombed another city that I believe killed more civilians than the
nukes did in Japan.

It was total war and the Japanese were on a deliberate national
suicide mission. The nukes shocked them into surrendering and likely
saved millions of lives.

What a shit. There were razed out civilian towns in Japan
by the dozens, just by conventional means, aka Dresden style.
(Dresden as witnessed by the mother of my ex, not that
I like her too much).

H and N were just another 2 towns. Just more efficient.
And the only question to be solved was just if the Tenno
would be a war criminal or remain god.

The Japanese had the irrational hope that Stalin might act
as a mediator. They gave up within hours when Stalin took
some of their islands instead, STILL discussed by diplomates
in Moscow as of last week.

Where should the millions of lives be saved that you talk about?

Further deaths in battle, in the streets of Japan. And starvation of
the Japanese population.

Yes. Let us analyze this from the standpoint of the Japanese
population.

The US and allies were going to invade the mainland islands of Japan,
and the Japanese military was going to fight to the death trying to
stop the invaders. In total, millions of soldiers of both sides would
die in the clashes, based on estimates from the US campaign to eject
the Japanese from the Pacific islands.

Civilians were training to fight american invaders with sharpened
sticks. Kids were going on suicide missions.

Our option was to keep bombing and/or starve the population to death.

The suicide mentality is described here:

https://www.amazon.com/Glorious-Way-Die-Kamikaze-Battleship/dp/1557049130

In round numbers, Japan has the population of the US crammed into an
area about that of the US state of California. Japan\'s food
production is just big enough to sustain the population in ordinary
times, from time to time there were notable famines caused by bad
weather.

Having two large armies fighting to the death in Japan will pretty
much prevent farming and fishing, and so is guaranteed to cause a
major famine while laying Japan waste, likely killing a factor more
ordinary people than soldiers. Tens of millions at the very least.

The total killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki is estimates to be at most
226,000 people.

The Japanese knew immediately that the weapon had to be atomic, and
when Nagasaki was hit, they knew that the US had more than one such
bomb, and so could continue using such bombs.

Actually, we used up all the fissile material available on those two.
The uranium bomb was not even tested. It would have been some time
before we could have made more bombs.

It was this that convinced the Emperor to overrule his military,
ending WW2, preventing the physical destruction of much of Japan.

So, the atomic bomb was a very good deal for the Japanese population.

Sad, true.

Joe Gwinn
--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon

 

[Joe Gwinn]

On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 11:23:57 -0700, John Larkin
<jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 11:51:53 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 18:40:03 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 03:18:12 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de
wrote:

Am 28.03.22 um 00:44 schrieb jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com:
On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 16:59:35 -0400, Ralph Mowery
rmowery42@charter.net> wrote:

In article <e710a2c0-f7fe-45ac-acc7-7b79dec81d6bn@googlegroups.com>,
edward.ming.lee@gmail.com says...

Yes, US would probably invade Mexico. But US military is not allowed to bomb apt/school/hospital and kill unarmed civilian.



This must be after ww2 where the US bombed two cities with nukies and
fire bombed another city that I believe killed more civilians than the
nukes did in Japan.

It was total war and the Japanese were on a deliberate national
suicide mission. The nukes shocked them into surrendering and likely
saved millions of lives.

What a shit. There were razed out civilian towns in Japan
by the dozens, just by conventional means, aka Dresden style.
(Dresden as witnessed by the mother of my ex, not that
I like her too much).

H and N were just another 2 towns. Just more efficient.
And the only question to be solved was just if the Tenno
would be a war criminal or remain god.

The Japanese had the irrational hope that Stalin might act
as a mediator. They gave up within hours when Stalin took
some of their islands instead, STILL discussed by diplomates
in Moscow as of last week.

Where should the millions of lives be saved that you talk about?

Further deaths in battle, in the streets of Japan. And starvation of
the Japanese population.

Yes. Let us analyze this from the standpoint of the Japanese
population.

The US and allies were going to invade the mainland islands of Japan,
and the Japanese military was going to fight to the death trying to
stop the invaders. In total, millions of soldiers of both sides would
die in the clashes, based on estimates from the US campaign to eject
the Japanese from the Pacific islands.


Civilians were training to fight american invaders with sharpened
sticks. Kids were going on suicide missions.

Our option was to keep bombing and/or starve the population to death.

The suicide mentality is described here:

https://www.amazon.com/Glorious-Way-Die-Kamikaze-Battleship/dp/1557049130

Looks very interesting. And telling.

And chilling. We paid in blood for each and every square inch of
those pacific islands. As did the Japanese.

In round numbers, Japan has the population of the US crammed into an
area about that of the US state of California. Japan\'s food
production is just big enough to sustain the population in ordinary
times; from time to time there were notable famines caused by bad
weather.

Having two large armies fighting to the death in Japan will pretty
much prevent farming and fishing, and so is guaranteed to cause a
major famine while laying Japan waste, likely killing a factor more
ordinary people than soldiers. Tens of millions at the very least.

The total killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki is estimated to be at most
226,000 people.

The Japanese knew immediately that the weapon had to be atomic, and
when Nagasaki was hit, they knew that the US had more than one such
bomb, and so could continue using such bombs.

Actually, we used up all the fissile material available on those two.
The uranium bomb was not even tested. It would have been some time
before we could have made more bombs.

True, but you must not expose the secret.

I bet Stalin knew, but he never shared this with Japan.

And it would only delay the inevitable.

It was this that convinced the Emperor to overrule his military,
ending WW2, preventing the physical destruction of much of Japan.

So, the atomic bomb was a very good deal for the Japanese population.

Sad, true.

Yes.

And the Japanese are not trying to re-create their Greater
Co-Prosperity Sphere any more.

..<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_East_Asia_Co-Prosperity_Sphere>


Joe Gwinn

 

[wmartin]

On 3/28/22 04:04, Phil Allison wrote:

David Eather wrote:
================

I found something (two facts) that helped put the nuclear bombings in
perspective. It was believed by the US that and invasion of the home
lands would take 12 months at least to defeat Japan if it was even possible.

Unrelated in 1945 the Japanese were killing about 10 thousand civilians
PER MONTH in the territories they occupied.

So 3 months to prepare for an invasion, 12 months of fighting would be
about 150,000 civilian casualties in the Japanese occupied territories.

That\'s a lot of reasons to accept the bomb drops as a necessary evil
(plus add Japanese and US losses during an invasion)


** Another factor US leaders had to consider was potential consequences of NOT using their nukes.

US parents would naturally ask why, after spending *massive funds* on developing the things,
they were not used to end the war quickly so saving the lives of hundreds of thousands of their young
son\'s lives.

Japanese had consistently shown ZERO respect for any and all human life throughout the war THEY started.
Check out the: \" Rape of Nanking \" for some disturbing bedtime reading.

The events around that time are so horrific & shameful that Japan has pretty much eradicated them from history books.
Heaps of young and many Japanese adults have no clue about the CRIMINAL role their country played in WW2.

Huge credit goes to the US for treating Japanese citizens with full respect soon as fighting ceased.
Japan was rebuilt, fast as possible, with local officials kept in place as before hostilities began.
The only land taken over permanently was that needed to bury US dead.


..... Phil

Pretty much exactly correct, BUT...
What about the US military bases in Japan? Those are, ceded by treaty,
American soil, as permanent as one can get. I\'m not objecting...those
lease deals suck, ask the Brits. !
Bill

 

[Mike Monett]

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 11:51:53 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net
wrote:

[...]

The Japanese knew immediately that the weapon had to be atomic, and
when Nagasaki was hit, they knew that the US had more than one such
bomb, and so could continue using such bombs.

Actually, we used up all the fissile material available on those two.
The uranium bomb was not even tested. It would have been some time
before we could have made more bombs.

There was a third core, nicnamed the Demon Core. It was intended for use in
Japan if the first two failed to force surrender:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hK9yAYJGeUY



--
MRM

 

[John Doe]

This looks like a BIG if not HUGE story the media is not focusing on.

Just search Google for...

Russia (gas OR oil) Rubles

Russia says European countries who are arming its enemy (Ukraine) must pay
for Russian oil and gas in Rubles. Those countries are refusing to do so,
citing \"unfairness\" and \"breach of contract\".

I wonder how easy it is to turn off those pipes.

 

[Phil Allison]

John Larkin wrote:
================

The total killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki is estimates to be at most
226,000 people.

The Japanese knew immediately that the weapon had to be atomic, and
when Nagasaki was hit, they knew that the US had more than one such
bomb, and so could continue using such bombs.

Actually, we used up all the fissile material available on those two.
The uranium bomb was not even tested. It would have been some time
before we could have made more bombs.

** On line source say otherwise.

A third nuke was nearly ready at the time and more would be available in a month or so.
A lack of targets worth hitting was a bigger issue, due to extensive conventional bombing.

BTW

B29s had to be re-built to carry nukes.
Multiple 1000lb bombs were normally carried forward and behind the wing that ran through the middle of the fuselage.
OTOH, nukes were huge so needed to go where the wing structure prevented ie on the C of G.


...... Phil

 

[David Eather]

On 28/03/2022 9:04 pm, Phil Allison wrote:

David Eather wrote:
================

I found something (two facts) that helped put the nuclear bombings in
perspective. It was believed by the US that and invasion of the home
lands would take 12 months at least to defeat Japan if it was even possible.

Unrelated in 1945 the Japanese were killing about 10 thousand civilians
PER MONTH in the territories they occupied.

So 3 months to prepare for an invasion, 12 months of fighting would be
about 150,000 civilian casualties in the Japanese occupied territories.

That\'s a lot of reasons to accept the bomb drops as a necessary evil
(plus add Japanese and US losses during an invasion)


** Another factor US leaders had to consider was potential consequences of NOT using their nukes.

US parents would naturally ask why, after spending *massive funds* on developing the things,
they were not used to end the war quickly so saving the lives of hundreds of thousands of their young
son\'s lives.

Japanese had consistently shown ZERO respect for any and all human life throughout the war THEY started.
Check out the: \" Rape of Nanking \" for some disturbing bedtime reading.

The events around that time are so horrific & shameful that Japan has pretty much eradicated them from history books.
Heaps of young and many Japanese adults have no clue about the CRIMINAL role their country played in WW2.

Huge credit goes to the US for treating Japanese citizens with full respect soon as fighting ceased.
Japan was rebuilt, fast as possible, with local officials kept in place as before hostilities began.
The only land taken over permanently was that needed to bury US dead.


..... Phil

Absolutely.

 

[David Eather]

Just thinking...

If John Doe is a sock puppet for putler he is a very bad one. His
illogical, one eyed sycophantic outburst have shown just how unbalanced
the rational for putlers attacks are. Overall a very negative result for
pro Russian sentiment. The best thing the putler could do with john
doe\'s support is to cut him off.

 

[John Doe]

One Australian troll replying to another Australian troll...

--
David Eather <eatREMOVEher@tpg.com.au> wrote:

Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2022 09:48:14 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.7.0
Subject: Re: OT: Sanctions
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Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
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From: David Eather <eatREMOVEher@tpg.com.au
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Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org sci.electronics.design:664438

Just thinking...

If John Doe is a sock puppet for putler he is a very bad one. His
illogical, one eyed sycophantic outburst have shown just how unbalanced
the rational for putlers attacks are. Overall a very negative result for
pro Russian sentiment. The best thing the putler could do with john
doe\'s support is to cut him off.

 

[Phil Allison]

wmartin wrote:
====================

Huge credit goes to the US for treating Japanese citizens with full respect soon as fighting ceased.
Japan was rebuilt, fast as possible, with local officials kept in place as before hostilities began.
The only land taken over permanently was that needed to bury US dead.


..... Phil


Pretty much exactly correct,

** Thanks, for a very rare compliment,

BUT...

What about the US military bases in Japan? Those are, ceded by treaty,
American soil, as permanent as one can get.

** Hardly the \" spoils of war \" - are they ?

Built, staffed and financed by the USA to defend JAPAN from any enemy.
For decades after WW2, Japan had virtually no defense force of its own.


...... Phil

 

[Edward Hernandez]

The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id
<sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

> The troll doesn\'t even know how to format a USENET post...

And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id
<sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
CLUELESS...

And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has itself posted yet another
incorrectly formatted USENET posting on Mon, 28 Mar 2022 23:50:36 -0000
(UTC) in message-id <t1thkb$mul$2@dont-email.me>.

oc+K8X/AlS53