OT: Sanctions...

[whit3rd]

On Sunday, March 27, 2022 at 1:15:50 PM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:

Russia is taking back a small portion of the territory it gave up in the
1990s, in response to NATO expansion.

What \'it gave up\' is a gift that, unlike a boomerang, does not return.
\'response to\' claims are rife, but attacking Ukraine has no clear
connection to NATO expansion, except to fuel new NATO expansion.

As for \'small portion\', the British have a saying: once you pay the danegeld,
you\'re never rid of the Dane. Homes, cities, provinces... who is to say what is \'small\'?

 

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <op.1jpjssarmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>, CK1@nospam.com says...

And they\'re hurting the Russian civilians, their price of food has tripled. In a war, aren\'t you supposed to go after the military, not the civilians? The war crimes being committed here are by the west, not Russia. Buy an I love Russia tshirt from Ebay and wear it proudly whenever you go out. It\'s so funny to hear everyone
tutting.

The way I see it is that everyone in the country involved are targets.
No such thing as military or civilians. The civilians only \'hire\' or
press into service people to be in the military even if the individual
does not want to be in the military. In the US the major targets should
be Congress as they tell our military what to do.

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 20:26:28 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
<always.look@message.header> wrote:

That\'s what Henry Kissinger and other diplomats have said.

I have seen no one point to respected diplomats who have NOT cautioned
against NATO expansion to Russia\'s border countries.

Russia/China wouldn\'t be allowed to expand into Mexico or Canada!
Free country or whatever the rhetoric might be.

You have to wonder why some people just don\'t get the obvious logic.

Well, absolutely. I guess some things that are obvious to some are
completely lost on others.

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 13:42:59 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
<edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, March 27, 2022 at 1:26:34 PM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
That\'s what Henry Kissinger and other diplomats have said.

I have seen no one point to respected diplomats who have NOT cautioned
against NATO expansion to Russia\'s border countries.

Russia/China wouldn\'t be allowed to expand into Mexico or Canada!
Free country or whatever the rhetoric might be.

Yes, US would probably invade Mexico. But US military is not allowed to bomb apt/school/hospital and kill unarmed civilian.

I think you meant to say \"people like Julian Assange are not allowed
to expose the US military\'s bombing of schools/apts/hospitals and
killing of unarmed civilians.\"

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 16:59:35 -0400, Ralph Mowery
<rmowery42@charter.net> wrote:

In article <e710a2c0-f7fe-45ac-acc7-7b79dec81d6bn@googlegroups.com>,
edward.ming.lee@gmail.com says...

Yes, US would probably invade Mexico. But US military is not allowed to bomb apt/school/hospital and kill unarmed civilian.



This must be after ww2 where the US bombed two cities with nukies and
fire bombed another city that I believe killed more civilians than the
nukes did in Japan.

And let\'s not forget what happened in Viet Nam.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 23:11:29 +0100, Ralph Mowery <rmowery42@charter.net> wrote:

In article <op.1jpjssarmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>, CK1@nospam.com says...

And they\'re hurting the Russian civilians, their price of food has tripled. In a war, aren\'t you supposed to go after the military, not the civilians? The war crimes being committed here are by the west, not Russia. Buy an I love Russia tshirt from Ebay and wear it proudly whenever you go out. It\'s so funny to hear everyone
tutting.

The way I see it is that everyone in the country involved are targets.
No such thing as military or civilians.

How many Russians agree with what Putin is doing? 9 out of 10 Russians I know do not.

The civilians only \'hire\' or
press into service people to be in the military even if the individual
does not want to be in the military.

They do not. They do not make those decisions. Did you decide what your country\'s military does?

In the US the major targets should
be Congress as they tell our military what to do.

So not you as a civilian then?

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 27-Mar-22 11:43 pm, John Doe wrote:

I don\'t understand why we are putting sanctions on Russia. THE SANCTIONS
ARE HURTING AMERICANS MORE THAN RUSSIA\'S INVASION OF UKRAINE HURT
AMERICANS. Seems lots of people want to hurt Russia more than they want to
help their own country.

See it as evidence that Americans don\'t just think about themselves.
That\'s a positive thing.

Sylvia.

 

[server]

On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 16:59:35 -0400, Ralph Mowery
<rmowery42@charter.net> wrote:

In article <e710a2c0-f7fe-45ac-acc7-7b79dec81d6bn@googlegroups.com>,
edward.ming.lee@gmail.com says...

Yes, US would probably invade Mexico. But US military is not allowed to bomb apt/school/hospital and kill unarmed civilian.



This must be after ww2 where the US bombed two cities with nukies and
fire bombed another city that I believe killed more civilians than the
nukes did in Japan.

It was total war and the Japanese were on a deliberate national
suicide mission. The nukes shocked them into surrendering and likely
saved millions of lives.



--

I yam what I yam - Popeye

 

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <op.1jpntxf9mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>, CK1@nospam.com says...

They do not. They do not make those decisions. Did you decide what your country\'s military does?

In the US the major targets should
be Congress as they tell our military what to do.

So not you as a civilian then?

In a small way I decide what the military does. I vote for congress and
they tell the military what to do. I may just get out voted.

A civilian only untuil the government tells me I am in the military even
if I do not want to be. In a way that is part of what the 2nd ammendment
says.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 00:43:21 +0100, Ralph Mowery <rmowery42@charter.net> wrote:

In article <op.1jpntxf9mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>, CK1@nospam.com says...
They do not. They do not make those decisions. Did you decide what your country\'s military does?

In the US the major targets should
be Congress as they tell our military what to do.

So not you as a civilian then?



In a small way I decide what the military does. I vote for congress and
they tell the military what to do. I may just get out voted.

A civilian only untuil the government tells me I am in the military even
if I do not want to be. In a way that is part of what the 2nd ammendment
says.

The point is you probably don\'t agree with what your government\'s military does. So an enemy of the USA shouldn\'t be killing you, since you aren\'t the one waging the war.

Think of it on a smaller scale. In the company you work for, one of your colleagues kills my brother. Should I take revenge by blowing up the whole company and killing you too? Or just go after the guy that did it?

 

[John Doe]

Sylvia Else wrote:

John Doe wrote:

I don\'t understand why we are putting sanctions on Russia. THE SANCTIONS
ARE HURTING AMERICANS MORE THAN RUSSIA\'S INVASION OF UKRAINE HURT
AMERICANS. Seems lots of people want to hurt Russia more than they want to
help their own country.

See it as evidence that Americans don\'t just think about themselves.
That\'s a positive thing.

Apparently about 99% of the people who think Ukraine is The Holy Land also
hate Donald Trump. I see it as evidence of politics, imperialism, the New
World Order, warmongering, passive-aggressiveness, propaganda, etc.

 

[John Doe]

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

Ralph Mowery wrote:
edward.ming.lee@gmail.com says...

Yes, US would probably invade Mexico. But US military is not allowed
to bomb apt/school/hospital and kill unarmed civilian.

This must be after ww2 where the US bombed two cities with nukies and
fire bombed another city that I believe killed more civilians than the
nukes did in Japan.

It was total war

As opposed to a \"kinder, gentler war\"?

 

[Gerhard Hoffmann]

Am 27.03.22 um 22:42 schrieb Ed Lee:

On Sunday, March 27, 2022 at 1:26:34 PM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
That\'s what Henry Kissinger and other diplomats have said.

I have seen no one point to respected diplomats who have NOT cautioned
against NATO expansion to Russia\'s border countries.

Russia/China wouldn\'t be allowed to expand into Mexico or Canada!
Free country or whatever the rhetoric might be.

Yes, US would probably invade Mexico. But US military is not allowed to bomb apt/school/hospital and kill unarmed civilian.

My Lai.

 

[Phil Allison]

Ralph Mowery wrote:
===================

Yes, US would probably invade Mexico. But US military is not allowed to bomb apt/school/hospital and kill unarmed civilian.


This must be after ww2 where the US bombed two cities with nukies and
fire bombed another city that I believe killed more civilians than the
nukes did in Japan.

** That would be Tokyo.
Firebombed by 300 or so B29s flying at low level .
Nips didn\'t bat an eye lid over it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo

About 50% of the population were involved in the war effort.
So a legit target.
Same goes for German cities.

Nothing quite like it has existed since.


....... Phil

 

[Gerhard Hoffmann]

Am 28.03.22 um 00:44 schrieb jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com:

On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 16:59:35 -0400, Ralph Mowery
rmowery42@charter.net> wrote:

In article <e710a2c0-f7fe-45ac-acc7-7b79dec81d6bn@googlegroups.com>,
edward.ming.lee@gmail.com says...

Yes, US would probably invade Mexico. But US military is not allowed to bomb apt/school/hospital and kill unarmed civilian.



This must be after ww2 where the US bombed two cities with nukies and
fire bombed another city that I believe killed more civilians than the
nukes did in Japan.

It was total war and the Japanese were on a deliberate national
suicide mission. The nukes shocked them into surrendering and likely
saved millions of lives.

What a shit. There were razed out civilian towns in Japan
by the dozens, just by conventional means, aka Dresden style.
(Dresden as witnessed by the mother of my ex, not that
I like her too much).

H and N were just another 2 towns. Just more efficient.
And the only question to be solved was just if the Tenno
would be a war criminal or remain god.

The Japanese had the irrational hope that Stalin might act
as a mediator. They gave up within hours when Stalin took
some of their islands instead, STILL discussed by diplomates
in Moscow as of last week.

Where should the millions of lives be saved that you talk about?
Brave American bomber pilots? Impending Japanese invasion in SF?
Or even more Japanese civilians? Yes, extraordinary crimes
require extraordinary justification attempts.

Or was it more to impress Stalin, who was no longer a friend
in the European theatre?

Gerhard

 

[server]

On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 03:18:12 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de>
wrote:

Am 28.03.22 um 00:44 schrieb jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com:
On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 16:59:35 -0400, Ralph Mowery
rmowery42@charter.net> wrote:

In article <e710a2c0-f7fe-45ac-acc7-7b79dec81d6bn@googlegroups.com>,
edward.ming.lee@gmail.com says...

Yes, US would probably invade Mexico. But US military is not allowed to bomb apt/school/hospital and kill unarmed civilian.



This must be after ww2 where the US bombed two cities with nukies and
fire bombed another city that I believe killed more civilians than the
nukes did in Japan.

It was total war and the Japanese were on a deliberate national
suicide mission. The nukes shocked them into surrendering and likely
saved millions of lives.

What a shit. There were razed out civilian towns in Japan
by the dozens, just by conventional means, aka Dresden style.
(Dresden as witnessed by the mother of my ex, not that
I like her too much).

H and N were just another 2 towns. Just more efficient.
And the only question to be solved was just if the Tenno
would be a war criminal or remain god.

The Japanese had the irrational hope that Stalin might act
as a mediator. They gave up within hours when Stalin took
some of their islands instead, STILL discussed by diplomates
in Moscow as of last week.

Where should the millions of lives be saved that you talk about?

Further deaths in battle, in the streets of Japan. And starvation of
the Japanese population.

Japan was on a suicide mission. Die for the Emperor.



--

I yam what I yam - Popeye

 

[Phil Allison]

Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
======================

** Have you studied any WW2 history at all ???

Cos your pig ignorance is fucking staggering.




...... Phil

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Monday, March 28, 2022 at 4:54:46 AM UTC+11, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 10:35:36 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, March 27, 2022 at 10:25:47 AM UTC-7, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 07:24:30 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, March 27, 2022 at 7:19:05 AM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
Rickster <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>

Under what threat? Being driven out of another country?
Ukraine, a former Soviet puppet colony, is a democracy with an increasingly european culture.

Ukraine is an independent country with a long history. It\'s current borders don\'t have a long history - there was an empire centered on the modern Ukraine and Russia from about 882 AD, which became part of the Polish-Lithuanian empire somewhat later. In 1648 the Cossacks revolted, but had to rely on Russian help from 1654, and ended up partitioned between Russia and Poland.

In 1921, the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic was formed as part of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics - which is to say it was never a Russian colony

> That is a threat to the Russian language, alphabet, culture, and tradition of despotic mass-murdering dictators-for-life.

Except that the Ukraine isn\'t Russian, and never much liked being part of the USSR - even less so after the 1932-33 famine.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor>

> Nostalgia for Stalin.

Not in the Ukraine.

>The Russian culture, or roughly half of it, still wants that.

It doesn\'t seem to, but we aren\'t talking about Russia, but the Ukraine, where nostalgia for Stalin is nonexistent.,

> Part of the price Russia will pay is brain drain. That will make the rest of the population yet more tribal.

Probably not.

> I wonder what China really wants to do here.

I suspect that China is asking itself the same question. If it wants to ingratiate itself with foreign countries, it wouldn\'t be a good idea to look sympathetic to a Russian land-grab.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Monday, March 28, 2022 at 7:22:03 AM UTC+11, John Doe wrote:

Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, they can want and enforce that within their border.
I don\'t know about your country, but... If Russia were meddling in Mexico
or Canada, we would be there.
They have to be careful, because Ukraine is a critical path of their
Belt and Road. If China is too friendly to Russia, belt might be cut
and road might be blocked.
What???

Speaking of roads. Now that Ukraine no longer has access to the sea, it
wants to use railroads to transport grain (its major industry), but what
if Russia decides to take out its railroads...

Russian citizens are doing very well compared to many Ukrainian citizens
(gas prices have dropped), including the millions who have left. Too bad
their leaders are too stupid to make a deal.

John Doe is too stupid to realise the defects of the \"deals\" the Russians have offered so far.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Monday, March 28, 2022 at 7:26:34 AM UTC+11, John Doe wrote:
> Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com> wrote:

<snipped Cursitor Doom being as silly as ever>

> That\'s what Henry Kissinger and other diplomats have said.

But not recently. And John Doe doesn\'t show much sign of understanding what they actually said, which didn\'t have much to do with Cursitor Doom\'s lunacies.

I have seen no one point to respected diplomats who have NOT cautioned
against NATO expansion to Russia\'s border countries.

That was before Russia got busy demonstrating that Russia\'s border countries needed all the protection that they could get from mutual defense agreements against invasion by Russia.

> Russia/China wouldn\'t be allowed to expand into Mexico or Canada!

NATO is a mutual defense organisation. The USA didn\'t expanded into Europe when NATO was formed.

Free country or whatever the rhetoric might be.

You have to wonder why some people just don\'t get the obvious logic.

John Doe\'s capacity to see logical connections seems to be nonexistent, and his capacity to swallow Putin\'s propaganda demonstrates complete gullibility.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney