OT: March 2020 hydroxychloroquine study

[Martin Brown]

On 08/04/2020 20:13, Ricky C wrote:

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 11:23:35 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:

I had some impression that Hydroxychloroqine had immunosuppressive
or anti-inflammatory effects. Which is where part of the breathing
problems arise, from an overreaction, congesting the lungs. I found
several articles saying it is an immune suppressor, so maybe it
works on two fronts.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28302011

"it has been found that Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) possesses various
immunomodulatory and anti-inflammatory activities."

We already have many, many immune suppressors available for use.
There are drugs specifically used for cytokine storm conditions. Why
would we use another unrelated compound with poorly established
activity in this mode?

If it was genuinely shown to work then why not?

It seems to work in vitro but the jury is still out on whether it is
actually effective as a treatment in humans with Covid-19 infection.
Also it may depend critically on hitting the virus early on before it
becomes serious rather than just before the patient is about to expire.

Germany's strong testing regime may be significant in their unusually
low mortality rate when compared to every other country.

Besides, the last thing you want to do when treating an infection is
to broadly suppress the immune response. That's a great way to kill
a patient.

It does seem to have some interesting characteristics that mean it is
also used to treat lupus and mediate excessive immune response there:

https://www.hopkinslupus.org/lupus-treatment/lupus-medications/antimalarial-drugs/

However, that is still a long way from saying that it works in this
particular situation. It has to be worth investigating though.

The US president hyping it and causing clueless muppets to die of
overdoes of the stuff is not at all helpful but sadly to be expected.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[Ricky C]

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 4:25:36 PM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:

On 08/04/2020 20:13, Ricky C wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 11:23:35 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:

I had some impression that Hydroxychloroqine had immunosuppressive
or anti-inflammatory effects. Which is where part of the breathing
problems arise, from an overreaction, congesting the lungs. I found
several articles saying it is an immune suppressor, so maybe it
works on two fronts.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28302011

"it has been found that Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) possesses various
immunomodulatory and anti-inflammatory activities."

We already have many, many immune suppressors available for use.
There are drugs specifically used for cytokine storm conditions. Why
would we use another unrelated compound with poorly established
activity in this mode?

If it was genuinely shown to work then why not?

That's the point. It has not been shown to work. If it was shown to work it wouldn't be discussed, it *would* be used and everyone would be happy.

It seems to work in vitro but the jury is still out on whether it is
actually effective as a treatment in humans with Covid-19 infection.

Yes, exactly. Many drugs work the treat in vitro and fail in vivo. Physiology/drug interactions are very complex and not easily predicted.

Also it may depend critically on hitting the virus early on before it
becomes serious rather than just before the patient is about to expire.

Or any number of other factors. We don't know because it hasn't been studied with this disease. It has been studied with similar diseases and found not to work.

Germany's strong testing regime may be significant in their unusually
low mortality rate when compared to every other country.

Besides, the last thing you want to do when treating an infection is
to broadly suppress the immune response. That's a great way to kill
a patient.

It does seem to have some interesting characteristics that mean it is
also used to treat lupus and mediate excessive immune response there:

https://www.hopkinslupus.org/lupus-treatment/lupus-medications/antimalarial-drugs/

However, that is still a long way from saying that it works in this
particular situation. It has to be worth investigating though.

And it is being given all the attention it is due.

The US president hyping it and causing clueless muppets to die of
overdoes of the stuff is not at all helpful but sadly to be expected.

One down, how many to go? I'm not worried about the muppets. I'm more worried about giving too many people the idea that a "cure" is around the corner so that it's not so important to fight the disease by isolation.

--

Rick C.

+++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky C]

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 11:56:33 PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 1:45:44 PM UTC-7, Ricky C wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 4:25:36 PM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:
On 08/04/2020 20:13, Ricky C wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 11:23:35 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:

I had some impression that Hydroxychloroqine had immunosuppressive
or anti-inflammatory effects. Which is where part of the breathing
problems arise, from an overreaction, congesting the lungs. I found
several articles saying it is an immune suppressor, so maybe it
works on two fronts.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28302011

"it has been found that Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) possesses various
immunomodulatory and anti-inflammatory activities."

We already have many, many immune suppressors available for use.
There are drugs specifically used for cytokine storm conditions. Why
would we use another unrelated compound with poorly established
activity in this mode?

If it was genuinely shown to work then why not?

That's the point. It has not been shown to work. If it was shown to work it wouldn't be discussed, it *would* be used and everyone would be happy.


It seems to work in vitro but the jury is still out on whether it is
actually effective as a treatment in humans with Covid-19 infection.

Yes, exactly. Many drugs work the treat in vitro and fail in vivo. Physiology/drug interactions are very complex and not easily predicted.


Also it may depend critically on hitting the virus early on before it
becomes serious rather than just before the patient is about to expire.

Or any number of other factors. We don't know because it hasn't been studied with this disease. It has been studied with similar diseases and found not to work.


Germany's strong testing regime may be significant in their unusually
low mortality rate when compared to every other country.

Besides, the last thing you want to do when treating an infection is
to broadly suppress the immune response. That's a great way to kill
a patient.

It does seem to have some interesting characteristics that mean it is
also used to treat lupus and mediate excessive immune response there:

https://www.hopkinslupus.org/lupus-treatment/lupus-medications/antimalarial-drugs/

However, that is still a long way from saying that it works in this
particular situation. It has to be worth investigating though.

And it is being given all the attention it is due.


The US president hyping it and causing clueless muppets to die of
overdoes of the stuff is not at all helpful but sadly to be expected.

One down, how many to go? I'm not worried about the muppets. I'm more worried about giving too many people the idea that a "cure" is around the corner so that it's not so important to fight the disease by isolation.

--

Rick C.

+++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

This Michigan Democrat thanked Pres. Trump for saving her life by making hydroxychloroquine available to her:
https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/apr/7/michigan-democrat-thanks-trump-hydroxychloroquine-/
Fox News medical consultant Dr. Marc Siegel's 96 year old father had an identical experience as he reported on Carlson's show last night.

When people with CV19 hear these stories you can damn well bet that they will want to try hydroxychloroquine, too. And they will be DAMNED UPSET if some politician or bureaucrat (let alone some Ozzy communist) tells them they can't have it because they KNOW BEST! And if their doctor will prescribe it, they DAMN WELL DESERVE IT!!!

Why are you ranting. Who has said they should not get the drug if their doctor says they need it??? You seem to be hearing voices.


> Personally, I think these politicians and their media lackeys are concerned that hydroxychloroquine WILL work and Pres Trump WILL get credit for it.

If you actually listen to what people say rather than what you want to hear what people complain about is that Trump delivers a very mixed message, all the while pushing it as a solution.

“What do I know? I’m not a doctor,” Trump said. “But I have common sense. The FDA feels good about it, as you know, they approved it.”

The FDA never "approved" it. A doctor has always been allowed to prescribe medicine for off label uses.

“it doesn’t kill people.”

Actually, it can.

“Hydroxychloroquine is something that I have been pushing very hard,”

At least that is not factually wrong, but it shows he knows he is pushing use of the drug when he should be letting the doctors make the decision.

"HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE & AZITHROMYCIN, taken together, have a real chance to be one of the biggest game changers in the history of medicine,"

A "chance" yes, saying a "real chance" is stretching it a bit.

Then there are the facts. Well, we don't need to go into facts regarding the studies because no one here will care about the facts. But the summary is that the limited studies done show mixed results including a death. Was that from the disease or the drug?

The guy who led the French study is a bit of an eccentric to put it mildly. At one point he was temporarily barred from publishing research in a medical journal because of misleading data in a paper.

Why don't we get some better studies before we recommend the drug. If people want to take it and be part of a trial study, fine. But lets not oversell the thing like Trump is doing.

If Trump is nothing else, he is a salesman. This is not a time to be hawking unproven drugs at the daily medicine show.

--

Rick C.

---- Get 2,000 miles of free Supercharging
---- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Flyguy]

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 1:45:44 PM UTC-7, Ricky C wrote:

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 4:25:36 PM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:
On 08/04/2020 20:13, Ricky C wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 11:23:35 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:

I had some impression that Hydroxychloroqine had immunosuppressive
or anti-inflammatory effects. Which is where part of the breathing
problems arise, from an overreaction, congesting the lungs. I found
several articles saying it is an immune suppressor, so maybe it
works on two fronts.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28302011

"it has been found that Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) possesses various
immunomodulatory and anti-inflammatory activities."

We already have many, many immune suppressors available for use.
There are drugs specifically used for cytokine storm conditions. Why
would we use another unrelated compound with poorly established
activity in this mode?

If it was genuinely shown to work then why not?

That's the point. It has not been shown to work. If it was shown to work it wouldn't be discussed, it *would* be used and everyone would be happy.


It seems to work in vitro but the jury is still out on whether it is
actually effective as a treatment in humans with Covid-19 infection.

Yes, exactly. Many drugs work the treat in vitro and fail in vivo. Physiology/drug interactions are very complex and not easily predicted.


Also it may depend critically on hitting the virus early on before it
becomes serious rather than just before the patient is about to expire.

Or any number of other factors. We don't know because it hasn't been studied with this disease. It has been studied with similar diseases and found not to work.


Germany's strong testing regime may be significant in their unusually
low mortality rate when compared to every other country.

Besides, the last thing you want to do when treating an infection is
to broadly suppress the immune response. That's a great way to kill
a patient.

It does seem to have some interesting characteristics that mean it is
also used to treat lupus and mediate excessive immune response there:

https://www.hopkinslupus.org/lupus-treatment/lupus-medications/antimalarial-drugs/

However, that is still a long way from saying that it works in this
particular situation. It has to be worth investigating though.

And it is being given all the attention it is due.


The US president hyping it and causing clueless muppets to die of
overdoes of the stuff is not at all helpful but sadly to be expected.

One down, how many to go? I'm not worried about the muppets. I'm more worried about giving too many people the idea that a "cure" is around the corner so that it's not so important to fight the disease by isolation.

--

Rick C.

+++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

This Michigan Democrat thanked Pres. Trump for saving her life by making hydroxychloroquine available to her:
https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/apr/7/michigan-democrat-thanks-trump-hydroxychloroquine-/
Fox News medical consultant Dr. Marc Siegel's 96 year old father had an identical experience as he reported on Carlson's show last night.

When people with CV19 hear these stories you can damn well bet that they will want to try hydroxychloroquine, too. And they will be DAMNED UPSET if some politician or bureaucrat (let alone some Ozzy communist) tells them they can't have it because they KNOW BEST! And if their doctor will prescribe it, they DAMN WELL DESERVE IT!!!

Personally, I think these politicians and their media lackeys are concerned that hydroxychloroquine WILL work and Pres Trump WILL get credit for it.

 

[whit3rd]

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 9:20:27 PM UTC-7, Ricky C wrote:

"HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE & AZITHROMYCIN, taken together, have a real chance to be one of the biggest game changers in the history of medicine,"

A "chance" yes, saying a "real chance" is stretching it a bit.

Then there are the facts. Well, we don't need to go into facts regarding the studies because no one here will care about the facts...

Yes, that's true (the difference between a lie and a cat, is that the cat
only has nine lives).

But it's probably best to let folk (outside their health reimbursement) pay for the
dose, and doctors administer it, if only because it keeps the health treatment
of those users ON_RECORD. The doctor doesn't have to make a 'John Doe'
record and bury the facts. Keeping all the health care on the record will help
in future years (when the side effects are going to be felt, and fine points
of the case data become useful).

Allowing use of a drug that other patients really DO need is a bit worrisome in
where-are-the-supplies-going terms, but we don't want alley clinics opening up.

 

On Wednesday, 8 April 2020 17:57:11 UTC+1, mpm wrote:

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 10:47:13 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 9:31:52 PM UTC+10, mpm wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 1:28:41 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 2:13:51 PM UTC+10, mpm wrote:
On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 11:56:59 PM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:

So much for mpm's "guarantee" that he has a higher IQ than Fred Bloggs.

So you're in agreement, then?

You can't guarantee that your IQ is higher than Fred Blogg's until you have had your own IQ measured and have access to Fred Bloggs score on a similar IQ test.

Your IQ seems to be a bit too low to let you have a secure grasp of what IQ means, and my guess is that you are lot dumber than Fred Bloggs used to be.

IQ is a rather narrow measure of what is meant by intelligence in non-technical discussions, and the people who take IQ test results seriously aren't very bright. Some of them are dumb enough to join Mensa.

Maybe you are just sour that Mensa rejected your test scores.

It's a very long time since I even thought about taking their test - more than fifty years - there didn't seem to be any point to them then either.. Nothing I've learned since then (and I've learned quite a bit) has changed that opinion.

I did read Eysenck's "Know your own IQ when" it was first published in 1962, and I scored fairly high on the tests it contained, but wasn't exactly convinced that it meant much. A little later I went out with a few female psychologists, and started taking Eysenck even less seriously.

Apparently Jerry Pournelle did his Ph.D. in that area, which put the final nail in that coffin.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

I also agree it doesn't really mean that much.
It this day and age though, if you have two neurons to rub together to form anything that can even remotely pass as a coherent thought, you're way ahead of the herd.

I took the qualification test back in high school (OMNI Magazine, as I recall?) as several of my friends were "into" that sort of stuff. You know, Chess Club, A/V, Math team: all the nerdy activities that keep you from getting the prettier girls.

I scored high enough that I took the actual test, and was a member for a while.

I think the main problem is that there's a lot of misunderstanding of what it actually means. To say it doesn't mean much would be silly.


NT

 

[bitrex]

On 4/9/2020 12:20 AM, Ricky C wrote:

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 11:56:33 PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 1:45:44 PM UTC-7, Ricky C wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 4:25:36 PM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:
On 08/04/2020 20:13, Ricky C wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 11:23:35 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:

I had some impression that Hydroxychloroqine had immunosuppressive
or anti-inflammatory effects. Which is where part of the breathing
problems arise, from an overreaction, congesting the lungs. I found
several articles saying it is an immune suppressor, so maybe it
works on two fronts.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28302011

"it has been found that Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) possesses various
immunomodulatory and anti-inflammatory activities."

We already have many, many immune suppressors available for use.
There are drugs specifically used for cytokine storm conditions. Why
would we use another unrelated compound with poorly established
activity in this mode?

If it was genuinely shown to work then why not?

That's the point. It has not been shown to work. If it was shown to work it wouldn't be discussed, it *would* be used and everyone would be happy.


It seems to work in vitro but the jury is still out on whether it is
actually effective as a treatment in humans with Covid-19 infection.

Yes, exactly. Many drugs work the treat in vitro and fail in vivo. Physiology/drug interactions are very complex and not easily predicted.


Also it may depend critically on hitting the virus early on before it
becomes serious rather than just before the patient is about to expire.

Or any number of other factors. We don't know because it hasn't been studied with this disease. It has been studied with similar diseases and found not to work.


Germany's strong testing regime may be significant in their unusually
low mortality rate when compared to every other country.

Besides, the last thing you want to do when treating an infection is
to broadly suppress the immune response. That's a great way to kill
a patient.

It does seem to have some interesting characteristics that mean it is
also used to treat lupus and mediate excessive immune response there:

https://www.hopkinslupus.org/lupus-treatment/lupus-medications/antimalarial-drugs/

However, that is still a long way from saying that it works in this
particular situation. It has to be worth investigating though.

And it is being given all the attention it is due.


The US president hyping it and causing clueless muppets to die of
overdoes of the stuff is not at all helpful but sadly to be expected.

One down, how many to go? I'm not worried about the muppets. I'm more worried about giving too many people the idea that a "cure" is around the corner so that it's not so important to fight the disease by isolation.

--

Rick C.

+++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

This Michigan Democrat thanked Pres. Trump for saving her life by making hydroxychloroquine available to her:
https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/apr/7/michigan-democrat-thanks-trump-hydroxychloroquine-/
Fox News medical consultant Dr. Marc Siegel's 96 year old father had an identical experience as he reported on Carlson's show last night.

When people with CV19 hear these stories you can damn well bet that they will want to try hydroxychloroquine, too. And they will be DAMNED UPSET if some politician or bureaucrat (let alone some Ozzy communist) tells them they can't have it because they KNOW BEST! And if their doctor will prescribe it, they DAMN WELL DESERVE IT!!!

Why are you ranting. Who has said they should not get the drug if their doctor says they need it??? You seem to be hearing voices.


Personally, I think these politicians and their media lackeys are concerned that hydroxychloroquine WILL work and Pres Trump WILL get credit for it.

If you actually listen to what people say rather than what you want to hear what people complain about is that Trump delivers a very mixed message, all the while pushing it as a solution.

“What do I know? I’m not a doctor,” Trump said. “But I have common sense. The FDA feels good about it, as you know, they approved it.”

The FDA never "approved" it. A doctor has always been allowed to prescribe medicine for off label uses.

“it doesn’t kill people.”

Actually, it can.

“Hydroxychloroquine is something that I have been pushing very hard,”

At least that is not factually wrong, but it shows he knows he is pushing use of the drug when he should be letting the doctors make the decision.

"HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE & AZITHROMYCIN, taken together, have a real chance to be one of the biggest game changers in the history of medicine,"

A "chance" yes, saying a "real chance" is stretching it a bit.

Then there are the facts. Well, we don't need to go into facts regarding the studies because no one here will care about the facts. But the summary is that the limited studies done show mixed results including a death. Was that from the disease or the drug?

The guy who led the French study is a bit of an eccentric to put it mildly. At one point he was temporarily barred from publishing research in a medical journal because of misleading data in a paper.

Why don't we get some better studies before we recommend the drug. If people want to take it and be part of a trial study, fine. But lets not oversell the thing like Trump is doing.

If Trump is nothing else, he is a salesman. This is not a time to be hawking unproven drugs at the daily medicine show.

"Flyguy" is just as paranoid as his favorite person in the world is,
they make a perfect pair. Hopefully they can get married, someday.

 

[Flyguy]

On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 3:06:49 PM UTC-7, bitrex wrote:

On 4/9/2020 12:20 AM, Ricky C wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 11:56:33 PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 1:45:44 PM UTC-7, Ricky C wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 4:25:36 PM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:
On 08/04/2020 20:13, Ricky C wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 11:23:35 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:

I had some impression that Hydroxychloroqine had immunosuppressive
or anti-inflammatory effects. Which is where part of the breathing
problems arise, from an overreaction, congesting the lungs. I found
several articles saying it is an immune suppressor, so maybe it
works on two fronts.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28302011

"it has been found that Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) possesses various
immunomodulatory and anti-inflammatory activities."

We already have many, many immune suppressors available for use.
There are drugs specifically used for cytokine storm conditions. Why
would we use another unrelated compound with poorly established
activity in this mode?

If it was genuinely shown to work then why not?

That's the point. It has not been shown to work. If it was shown to work it wouldn't be discussed, it *would* be used and everyone would be happy.


It seems to work in vitro but the jury is still out on whether it is
actually effective as a treatment in humans with Covid-19 infection.

Yes, exactly. Many drugs work the treat in vitro and fail in vivo. Physiology/drug interactions are very complex and not easily predicted.


Also it may depend critically on hitting the virus early on before it
becomes serious rather than just before the patient is about to expire.

Or any number of other factors. We don't know because it hasn't been studied with this disease. It has been studied with similar diseases and found not to work.


Germany's strong testing regime may be significant in their unusually
low mortality rate when compared to every other country.

Besides, the last thing you want to do when treating an infection is
to broadly suppress the immune response. That's a great way to kill
a patient.

It does seem to have some interesting characteristics that mean it is
also used to treat lupus and mediate excessive immune response there:

https://www.hopkinslupus.org/lupus-treatment/lupus-medications/antimalarial-drugs/

However, that is still a long way from saying that it works in this
particular situation. It has to be worth investigating though.

And it is being given all the attention it is due.


The US president hyping it and causing clueless muppets to die of
overdoes of the stuff is not at all helpful but sadly to be expected..

One down, how many to go? I'm not worried about the muppets. I'm more worried about giving too many people the idea that a "cure" is around the corner so that it's not so important to fight the disease by isolation.

--

Rick C.

+++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

This Michigan Democrat thanked Pres. Trump for saving her life by making hydroxychloroquine available to her:
https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/apr/7/michigan-democrat-thanks-trump-hydroxychloroquine-/
Fox News medical consultant Dr. Marc Siegel's 96 year old father had an identical experience as he reported on Carlson's show last night.

When people with CV19 hear these stories you can damn well bet that they will want to try hydroxychloroquine, too. And they will be DAMNED UPSET if some politician or bureaucrat (let alone some Ozzy communist) tells them they can't have it because they KNOW BEST! And if their doctor will prescribe it, they DAMN WELL DESERVE IT!!!

Why are you ranting. Who has said they should not get the drug if their doctor says they need it??? You seem to be hearing voices.


Personally, I think these politicians and their media lackeys are concerned that hydroxychloroquine WILL work and Pres Trump WILL get credit for it.

If you actually listen to what people say rather than what you want to hear what people complain about is that Trump delivers a very mixed message, all the while pushing it as a solution.

“What do I know? I’m not a doctor,” Trump said. “But I have common sense. The FDA feels good about it, as you know, they approved it.”

The FDA never "approved" it. A doctor has always been allowed to prescribe medicine for off label uses.

“it doesn’t kill people.”

Actually, it can.

“Hydroxychloroquine is something that I have been pushing very hard,”

At least that is not factually wrong, but it shows he knows he is pushing use of the drug when he should be letting the doctors make the decision.

"HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE & AZITHROMYCIN, taken together, have a real chance to be one of the biggest game changers in the history of medicine,"

A "chance" yes, saying a "real chance" is stretching it a bit.

Then there are the facts. Well, we don't need to go into facts regarding the studies because no one here will care about the facts. But the summary is that the limited studies done show mixed results including a death. Was that from the disease or the drug?

The guy who led the French study is a bit of an eccentric to put it mildly. At one point he was temporarily barred from publishing research in a medical journal because of misleading data in a paper.

Why don't we get some better studies before we recommend the drug. If people want to take it and be part of a trial study, fine. But lets not oversell the thing like Trump is doing.

If Trump is nothing else, he is a salesman. This is not a time to be hawking unproven drugs at the daily medicine show.


"Flyguy" is just as paranoid as his favorite person in the world is,
they make a perfect pair. Hopefully they can get married, someday.

Wrong again - you should actually listen to your fellow libtard paranoids. Example: try watching Morning Joe for just 5 minutes.

 

[Flyguy]

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 9:20:27 PM UTC-7, Ricky C wrote:

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 11:56:33 PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 1:45:44 PM UTC-7, Ricky C wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 4:25:36 PM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:
On 08/04/2020 20:13, Ricky C wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 11:23:35 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:

I had some impression that Hydroxychloroqine had immunosuppressive
or anti-inflammatory effects. Which is where part of the breathing
problems arise, from an overreaction, congesting the lungs. I found
several articles saying it is an immune suppressor, so maybe it
works on two fronts.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28302011

"it has been found that Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) possesses various
immunomodulatory and anti-inflammatory activities."

We already have many, many immune suppressors available for use.
There are drugs specifically used for cytokine storm conditions. Why
would we use another unrelated compound with poorly established
activity in this mode?

If it was genuinely shown to work then why not?

That's the point. It has not been shown to work. If it was shown to work it wouldn't be discussed, it *would* be used and everyone would be happy.


It seems to work in vitro but the jury is still out on whether it is
actually effective as a treatment in humans with Covid-19 infection..

Yes, exactly. Many drugs work the treat in vitro and fail in vivo. Physiology/drug interactions are very complex and not easily predicted.


Also it may depend critically on hitting the virus early on before it
becomes serious rather than just before the patient is about to expire.

Or any number of other factors. We don't know because it hasn't been studied with this disease. It has been studied with similar diseases and found not to work.


Germany's strong testing regime may be significant in their unusually
low mortality rate when compared to every other country.

Besides, the last thing you want to do when treating an infection is
to broadly suppress the immune response. That's a great way to kill
a patient.

It does seem to have some interesting characteristics that mean it is
also used to treat lupus and mediate excessive immune response there:

https://www.hopkinslupus.org/lupus-treatment/lupus-medications/antimalarial-drugs/

However, that is still a long way from saying that it works in this
particular situation. It has to be worth investigating though.

And it is being given all the attention it is due.


The US president hyping it and causing clueless muppets to die of
overdoes of the stuff is not at all helpful but sadly to be expected.

One down, how many to go? I'm not worried about the muppets. I'm more worried about giving too many people the idea that a "cure" is around the corner so that it's not so important to fight the disease by isolation.

--

Rick C.

+++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

This Michigan Democrat thanked Pres. Trump for saving her life by making hydroxychloroquine available to her:
https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/apr/7/michigan-democrat-thanks-trump-hydroxychloroquine-/
Fox News medical consultant Dr. Marc Siegel's 96 year old father had an identical experience as he reported on Carlson's show last night.

When people with CV19 hear these stories you can damn well bet that they will want to try hydroxychloroquine, too. And they will be DAMNED UPSET if some politician or bureaucrat (let alone some Ozzy communist) tells them they can't have it because they KNOW BEST! And if their doctor will prescribe it, they DAMN WELL DESERVE IT!!!

Why are you ranting. Who has said they should not get the drug if their doctor says they need it??? You seem to be hearing voices.

I am NOT ranting - I am stating a simple fact.

Personally, I think these politicians and their media lackeys are concerned that hydroxychloroquine WILL work and Pres Trump WILL get credit for it.

If you actually listen to what people say rather than what you want to hear what people complain about is that Trump delivers a very mixed message, all the while pushing it as a solution.

Well, I HAVE listened to them and their critique of Pres Trump and they say NOTHING about a "mixed message," it is more on the line of "I have never heard any politician who is more consistently wrong than Trump."

“What do I know? I’m not a doctor,” Trump said. “But I have common sense. The FDA feels good about it, as you know, they approved it.”

That is absolutely TRUE, Pres Trump acknowledges he is NOT a doctor (no surprise there), but that he does have COMMON SENSE. Example: when he sees bureaucratic nonsense delaying the obvious, like not permitting a machine that decontaminates PPE, he cuts thru it, saving lives in the process.

The FDA never "approved" it. A doctor has always been allowed to prescribe medicine for off label uses.

“it doesn’t kill people.”

Actually, it can.

No, it can't. Hydroxychloroquine has, literally, been prescribed to millions of people successfully. Aspirin is more toxic. That said, ANYTHING can be toxic, including water.

“Hydroxychloroquine is something that I have been pushing very hard,”

At least that is not factually wrong, but it shows he knows he is pushing use of the drug when he should be letting the doctors make the decision.

Doctors DO make the final decision - the PATIENT'S doctor.

"HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE & AZITHROMYCIN, taken together, have a real chance to be one of the biggest game changers in the history of medicine,"

A "chance" yes, saying a "real chance" is stretching it a bit.

HOW THE HELL DO YOU KNOW?!?!

Then there are the facts. Well, we don't need to go into facts regarding the studies because no one here will care about the facts. But the summary is that the limited studies done show mixed results including a death. Was that from the disease or the drug?

A COVID-19 patient dying - not THAT'S UNUSUAL!

The guy who led the French study is a bit of an eccentric to put it mildly. At one point he was temporarily barred from publishing research in a medical journal because of misleading data in a paper.

YOU are an eccentric, so the fuck what?

Why don't we get some better studies before we recommend the drug. If people want to take it and be part of a trial study, fine. But lets not oversell the thing like Trump is doing.

WHY? Are you FUCKING SERIOUS? Because people are DYING BY THE THOUSANDS!!!!

If Trump is nothing else, he is a salesman. This is not a time to be hawking unproven drugs at the daily medicine show.

SO WHAT? This is EXACTLY the time to be promoting drugs that are clearly working. If I got infected, I would INSIST on being prescribed HCQ and the ZPAK.

 

[Ricky C]

On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 8:40:50 PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 9:20:27 PM UTC-7, Ricky C wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 11:56:33 PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:

When people with CV19 hear these stories you can damn well bet that they will want to try hydroxychloroquine, too. And they will be DAMNED UPSET if some politician or bureaucrat (let alone some Ozzy communist) tells them they can't have it because they KNOW BEST! And if their doctor will prescribe it, they DAMN WELL DESERVE IT!!!

Why are you ranting. Who has said they should not get the drug if their doctor says they need it??? You seem to be hearing voices.

I am NOT ranting - I am stating a simple fact.

Hardly. Right now there are people who have been using the drug for some time for other conditions it is known to help with. Why would someone with a condition it is not known to treat get priority in receiving the drug?

Ranting refers to your overly dramatic discussion of the issue, and yes, you were ranting!

Then there is the issue of you ignoring the fact that no one has been told they can't have the drug as long as it is in supply. Why has been told they can't get it when a doctor prescribed it??? Yup, more ranting.

Personally, I think these politicians and their media lackeys are concerned that hydroxychloroquine WILL work and Pres Trump WILL get credit for it.

If you actually listen to what people say rather than what you want to hear what people complain about is that Trump delivers a very mixed message, all the while pushing it as a solution.

Well, I HAVE listened to them and their critique of Pres Trump and they say NOTHING about a "mixed message," it is more on the line of "I have never heard any politician who is more consistently wrong than Trump."

Trump is both wrong and right because very seldom can anyone get him to make a clear statement. No, he said he would make Mexico pay for the wall, but then he isn't doing that.

The tone of his message on hydroxychloroquine is that people should ask their doctors to prescribe it. That is, if you aren't intubated in which case someone should ask in your stead. The reality is no one has said NO other than individual doctors who seem to say that a lot.

“What do I know? I’m not a doctor,” Trump said. “But I have common sense. The FDA feels good about it, as you know, they approved it.”

That is absolutely TRUE, Pres Trump acknowledges he is NOT a doctor (no surprise there), but that he does have COMMON SENSE. Example: when he sees bureaucratic nonsense delaying the obvious, like not permitting a machine that decontaminates PPE, he cuts thru it, saving lives in the process.

Common sense would tell you to let your doctor inform you of what potentially useful treatments are available rather than listening to the butcher, the guy at Costco changing your tires or the President.

The FDA never "approved" it. A doctor has always been allowed to prescribe medicine for off label uses.

“it doesn’t kill people.”

Actually, it can.

No, it can't. Hydroxychloroquine has, literally, been prescribed to millions of people successfully. Aspirin is more toxic. That said, ANYTHING can be toxic, including water.

That's funny, doctors seem to disagree with you on the safety issues. BTW, aspirin is not all that safe. I know someone who almost died from the stomach ulcers it caused. That is not an infrequent side effect.

“Hydroxychloroquine is something that I have been pushing very hard,”

At least that is not factually wrong, but it shows he knows he is pushing use of the drug when he should be letting the doctors make the decision.

Doctors DO make the final decision - the PATIENT'S doctor.

Exactly! You finally got something right!

"HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE & AZITHROMYCIN, taken together, have a real chance to be one of the biggest game changers in the history of medicine,"

A "chance" yes, saying a "real chance" is stretching it a bit.

HOW THE HELL DO YOU KNOW?!?!

Because I've paid attention to the information available on the matter and not listen to the many idiots ranting about the issue.

Then there are the facts. Well, we don't need to go into facts regarding the studies because no one here will care about the facts. But the summary is that the limited studies done show mixed results including a death. Was that from the disease or the drug?

A COVID-19 patient dying - not THAT'S UNUSUAL!

The majority of COVID-19 patients recover. Hence the need for proper studies before we waste time/money and risk harm to COVID-19 patients.

The guy who led the French study is a bit of an eccentric to put it mildly. At one point he was temporarily barred from publishing research in a medical journal because of misleading data in a paper.

YOU are an eccentric, so the fuck what?

No one is citing my study of hydroxychloroquine. The guy isn't an eccentric. He is a poor researcher... or not. That's not the real issue. The issue is that his study was not done well. That study is not anything to base an important decision on.

Why don't we get some better studies before we recommend the drug. If people want to take it and be part of a trial study, fine. But lets not oversell the thing like Trump is doing.

WHY? Are you FUCKING SERIOUS? Because people are DYING BY THE THOUSANDS!!!!

I guess you are the guy Larkin is talking about getting hysterical about this disease. As Larkin would point out, most likely we will have roughly as many people die from auto accidents in this country this year. Why aren't you getting excited about the many potential ways to save lives on our highways? Interesting that the lock down also will lower the accident and death rates on the highways!

Still, the fact that over a thousand people die each day isn't a good reason to go off half cocked and harm even more people.

If Trump is nothing else, he is a salesman. This is not a time to be hawking unproven drugs at the daily medicine show.

SO WHAT? This is EXACTLY the time to be promoting drugs that are clearly working. If I got infected, I would INSIST on being prescribed HCQ and the ZPAK.

Yes, I agree totally. Let's promote drugs that "clearly work" and not hydroxychloroquine.

--

Rick C.

---+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
---+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[whit3rd]

On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 5:40:50 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 9:20:27 PM UTC-7, Ricky C wrote:

If Trump is nothing else, he is a salesman. This is not a time to be hawking unproven drugs at the daily medicine show.

SO WHAT? This is EXACTLY the time to be promoting drugs that are clearly working. If I got infected, I would INSIST on being prescribed HCQ and the ZPAK.

And during the 1918 flu epidemic, would have insisted on wearing a sachet of asafoetida, or
drinking a radium water tonic, or... well, the list is long.

Quackery isn't good medicine, and it has never been in low supply. Encourage good
medical science instead of buying snake-oil.

 

whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in
news:6207cb50-9f63-4972-955e-fbb89cc72114@googlegroups.com:

On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 5:40:50 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 9:20:27 PM UTC-7, Ricky C wrote:

If Trump is nothing else, he is a salesman. This is not a time
to be hawking unproven drugs at the daily medicine show.

SO WHAT? This is EXACTLY the time to be promoting drugs that are
clearly working. If I got infected, I would INSIST on being
prescribed HCQ and the ZPAK.

And during the 1918 flu epidemic, would have insisted on wearing a
sachet of asafoetida, or drinking a radium water tonic, or...
well, the list is long.

Quackery isn't good medicine, and it has never been in low
supply. Encourage good medical science instead of buying
snake-oil.

Such lofty tomes are miles over his head.

 

[mpm]

On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 3:55:27 PM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:

You miss spelled snake oil conman.

You misspelled "misspelled".
Don't you just hate that?

 

[Martin Brown]

On 11/04/2020 01:40, Flyguy wrote:

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 9:20:27 PM UTC-7, Ricky C wrote:

If Trump is nothing else, he is a salesman. This is not a time to
be hawking unproven drugs at the daily medicine show.

You miss spelled snake oil conman.

SO WHAT? This is EXACTLY the time to be promoting drugs that are
clearly working. If I got infected, I would INSIST on being
prescribed HCQ and the ZPAK.

You would be better off with Remdesivir which has shown promise in early
first level testing in vivo.

https://pharma-industry-review.com/remdesivir-shows-promise-in-treatment-against-covid-19

HCQ is quack medicine promoted by the great incompetent himself.
I have no problems letting any wannabe Darwin award winners use it.

Trump's promotion of the stuff has already cost lives.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote in news:r6t7b9
$6r3$1@gioia.aioe.org:

On 11/04/2020 01:40, Flyguy wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 9:20:27 PM UTC-7, Ricky C wrote:

If Trump is nothing else, he is a salesman. This is not a time
to
be hawking unproven drugs at the daily medicine show.

You miss spelled snake oil conman.

+1

A Roy Cohn Prodigy. How quaint. NOT!

I say DOUSE that conman in his snake oil and light it aflame!

See how brightly that burns.

Thus far, his 2016 tincture is not living up to his 2015 pitch.
His 2017 tincture IS his 2016 slime, relabeled.
His 2018 tincture was a distraction while he and his family robbed
the US Treasury of hundreds of millions of dollars via his wall
program.

Yes... Douse him in his own slimey oil, light it, and fire his ass
out of a circus cannon into an Asbestos lined cell down at GITMO.

 

mpm <mpmillard@aol.com> wrote in news:4b42c353-cef6-4c22-9c67-
43cae17f8685@googlegroups.com:

On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 3:55:27 PM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:

You miss spelled snake oil conman.



You misspelled "misspelled".
Don't you just hate that?

It's just a jump to the left...

 

[Ricky C]

On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 4:36:27 PM UTC-4, mpm wrote:

On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 3:55:27 PM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:

You miss spelled snake oil conman.



You misspelled "misspelled".
Don't you just hate that?

That's your great debating technique, to bite at ankles?

--

Rick C.

--+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[bitrex]

On 4/10/2020 8:42 PM, Flyguy wrote:

On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 3:06:49 PM UTC-7, bitrex wrote:
On 4/9/2020 12:20 AM, Ricky C wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 11:56:33 PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 1:45:44 PM UTC-7, Ricky C wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 4:25:36 PM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:
On 08/04/2020 20:13, Ricky C wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 11:23:35 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:

I had some impression that Hydroxychloroqine had immunosuppressive
or anti-inflammatory effects. Which is where part of the breathing
problems arise, from an overreaction, congesting the lungs. I found
several articles saying it is an immune suppressor, so maybe it
works on two fronts.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28302011

"it has been found that Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) possesses various
immunomodulatory and anti-inflammatory activities."

We already have many, many immune suppressors available for use.
There are drugs specifically used for cytokine storm conditions. Why
would we use another unrelated compound with poorly established
activity in this mode?

If it was genuinely shown to work then why not?

That's the point. It has not been shown to work. If it was shown to work it wouldn't be discussed, it *would* be used and everyone would be happy.


It seems to work in vitro but the jury is still out on whether it is
actually effective as a treatment in humans with Covid-19 infection.

Yes, exactly. Many drugs work the treat in vitro and fail in vivo. Physiology/drug interactions are very complex and not easily predicted.


Also it may depend critically on hitting the virus early on before it
becomes serious rather than just before the patient is about to expire.

Or any number of other factors. We don't know because it hasn't been studied with this disease. It has been studied with similar diseases and found not to work.


Germany's strong testing regime may be significant in their unusually
low mortality rate when compared to every other country.

Besides, the last thing you want to do when treating an infection is
to broadly suppress the immune response. That's a great way to kill
a patient.

It does seem to have some interesting characteristics that mean it is
also used to treat lupus and mediate excessive immune response there:

https://www.hopkinslupus.org/lupus-treatment/lupus-medications/antimalarial-drugs/

However, that is still a long way from saying that it works in this
particular situation. It has to be worth investigating though.

And it is being given all the attention it is due.


The US president hyping it and causing clueless muppets to die of
overdoes of the stuff is not at all helpful but sadly to be expected.

One down, how many to go? I'm not worried about the muppets. I'm more worried about giving too many people the idea that a "cure" is around the corner so that it's not so important to fight the disease by isolation.

--

Rick C.

+++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

This Michigan Democrat thanked Pres. Trump for saving her life by making hydroxychloroquine available to her:
https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/apr/7/michigan-democrat-thanks-trump-hydroxychloroquine-/
Fox News medical consultant Dr. Marc Siegel's 96 year old father had an identical experience as he reported on Carlson's show last night.

When people with CV19 hear these stories you can damn well bet that they will want to try hydroxychloroquine, too. And they will be DAMNED UPSET if some politician or bureaucrat (let alone some Ozzy communist) tells them they can't have it because they KNOW BEST! And if their doctor will prescribe it, they DAMN WELL DESERVE IT!!!

Why are you ranting. Who has said they should not get the drug if their doctor says they need it??? You seem to be hearing voices.


Personally, I think these politicians and their media lackeys are concerned that hydroxychloroquine WILL work and Pres Trump WILL get credit for it.

If you actually listen to what people say rather than what you want to hear what people complain about is that Trump delivers a very mixed message, all the while pushing it as a solution.

“What do I know? I’m not a doctor,” Trump said. “But I have common sense. The FDA feels good about it, as you know, they approved it.”

The FDA never "approved" it. A doctor has always been allowed to prescribe medicine for off label uses.

“it doesn’t kill people.”

Actually, it can.

“Hydroxychloroquine is something that I have been pushing very hard,”

At least that is not factually wrong, but it shows he knows he is pushing use of the drug when he should be letting the doctors make the decision.

"HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE & AZITHROMYCIN, taken together, have a real chance to be one of the biggest game changers in the history of medicine,"

A "chance" yes, saying a "real chance" is stretching it a bit.

Then there are the facts. Well, we don't need to go into facts regarding the studies because no one here will care about the facts. But the summary is that the limited studies done show mixed results including a death. Was that from the disease or the drug?

The guy who led the French study is a bit of an eccentric to put it mildly. At one point he was temporarily barred from publishing research in a medical journal because of misleading data in a paper.

Why don't we get some better studies before we recommend the drug. If people want to take it and be part of a trial study, fine. But lets not oversell the thing like Trump is doing.

If Trump is nothing else, he is a salesman. This is not a time to be hawking unproven drugs at the daily medicine show.


"Flyguy" is just as paranoid as his favorite person in the world is,
they make a perfect pair. Hopefully they can get married, someday.

Wrong again - you should actually listen to your fellow libtard paranoids. Example: try watching Morning Joe for just 5 minutes.

Those doofy boomers aren't the left. Uggh I have to listen to something
more soothing after hearing them. Ah, this will work.

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxAEXUyGM94>

 

[Flyguy]

On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 7:26:44 PM UTC-7, Ricky C wrote:

On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 8:40:50 PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 9:20:27 PM UTC-7, Ricky C wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 11:56:33 PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:

When people with CV19 hear these stories you can damn well bet that they will want to try hydroxychloroquine, too. And they will be DAMNED UPSET if some politician or bureaucrat (let alone some Ozzy communist) tells them they can't have it because they KNOW BEST! And if their doctor will prescribe it, they DAMN WELL DESERVE IT!!!

Why are you ranting. Who has said they should not get the drug if their doctor says they need it??? You seem to be hearing voices.

I am NOT ranting - I am stating a simple fact.

Hardly. Right now there are people who have been using the drug for some time for other conditions it is known to help with. Why would someone with a condition it is not known to treat get priority in receiving the drug?

Ranting refers to your overly dramatic discussion of the issue, and yes, you were ranting!

Hardly - YOU are the one who is ranting by stating something that I NEVER said. And are people DYING of COVID or not? Last time I checked they are.

Then there is the issue of you ignoring the fact that no one has been told they can't have the drug as long as it is in supply. Why has been told they can't get it when a doctor prescribed it??? Yup, more ranting.

Again, more ranting by YOU - HOW do you know that NO ONE has been told they can't have the drug, have you surveyed EVERYBODY with COVID-19? I most certainly doubt it. But PLENTY of Fake News commentators are declaring that Pres Trump is WRONG in recommending that.

Personally, I think these politicians and their media lackeys are concerned that hydroxychloroquine WILL work and Pres Trump WILL get credit for it.

If you actually listen to what people say rather than what you want to hear what people complain about is that Trump delivers a very mixed message, all the while pushing it as a solution.

Well, I HAVE listened to them and their critique of Pres Trump and they say NOTHING about a "mixed message," it is more on the line of "I have never heard any politician who is more consistently wrong than Trump."

Trump is both wrong and right because very seldom can anyone get him to make a clear statement. No, he said he would make Mexico pay for the wall, but then he isn't doing that.

LOL! He's both "wrong and right" - make up your fucking mind!

The tone of his message on hydroxychloroquine is that people should ask their doctors to prescribe it. That is, if you aren't intubated in which case someone should ask in your stead. The reality is no one has said NO other than individual doctors who seem to say that a lot.

Try rephrasing - you don't make any sense (surprise!).

“What do I know? I’m not a doctor,” Trump said. “But I have common sense. The FDA feels good about it, as you know, they approved it.”

That is absolutely TRUE, Pres Trump acknowledges he is NOT a doctor (no surprise there), but that he does have COMMON SENSE. Example: when he sees bureaucratic nonsense delaying the obvious, like not permitting a machine that decontaminates PPE, he cuts thru it, saving lives in the process.

Common sense would tell you to let your doctor inform you of what potentially useful treatments are available rather than listening to the butcher, the guy at Costco changing your tires or the President.

Who said that you should listen to your butcher? Sounds like another RANT! But Dem State Rep. Karen Whitsett DID listen to Pres. Trump and credits him with SAVING HER LIFE!
https://www.foxnews.com/media/karen-whitsett-trump-hydroxychloroquine-saved-my-life

The FDA never "approved" it. A doctor has always been allowed to prescribe medicine for off label uses.

“it doesn’t kill people.”

Actually, it can.

No, it can't. Hydroxychloroquine has, literally, been prescribed to millions of people successfully. Aspirin is more toxic. That said, ANYTHING can be toxic, including water.

That's funny, doctors seem to disagree with you on the safety issues. BTW, aspirin is not all that safe. I know someone who almost died from the stomach ulcers it caused. That is not an infrequent side effect.

LOL! That is EXACTLY what I said!!!

“Hydroxychloroquine is something that I have been pushing very hard,”

At least that is not factually wrong, but it shows he knows he is pushing use of the drug when he should be letting the doctors make the decision.

Doctors DO make the final decision - the PATIENT'S doctor.

Exactly! You finally got something right!

Hey, some common ground! Hooray!!!

"HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE & AZITHROMYCIN, taken together, have a real chance to be one of the biggest game changers in the history of medicine,"

A "chance" yes, saying a "real chance" is stretching it a bit.

HOW THE HELL DO YOU KNOW?!?!

Because I've paid attention to the information available on the matter and not listen to the many idiots ranting about the issue.

The correct answer is you DON'T KNOW - you are just stating your opinion.

Then there are the facts. Well, we don't need to go into facts regarding the studies because no one here will care about the facts. But the summary is that the limited studies done show mixed results including a death.. Was that from the disease or the drug?

A COVID-19 patient dying - not THAT'S UNUSUAL!

The majority of COVID-19 patients recover. Hence the need for proper studies before we waste time/money and risk harm to COVID-19 patients.

Not the ones that are admitted - most of those die.

The guy who led the French study is a bit of an eccentric to put it mildly. At one point he was temporarily barred from publishing research in a medical journal because of misleading data in a paper.

YOU are an eccentric, so the fuck what?

No one is citing my study of hydroxychloroquine. The guy isn't an eccentric. He is a poor researcher... or not. That's not the real issue. The issue is that his study was not done well. That study is not anything to base an important decision on.

You are not a doctor, you are not a researcher - you HAVE NO STUDY!

Why don't we get some better studies before we recommend the drug. If people want to take it and be part of a trial study, fine. But lets not oversell the thing like Trump is doing.

WHY? Are you FUCKING SERIOUS? Because people are DYING BY THE THOUSANDS!!!!

I guess you are the guy Larkin is talking about getting hysterical about this disease. As Larkin would point out, most likely we will have roughly as many people die from auto accidents in this country this year. Why aren't you getting excited about the many potential ways to save lives on our highways? Interesting that the lock down also will lower the accident and death rates on the highways!

Why are you talking about deaths from overdoses? GET REAL - the conversation is about COVID, dolt!

Still, the fact that over a thousand people die each day isn't a good reason to go off half cocked and harm even more people.

Non-sequitur BULLSHIT!

If Trump is nothing else, he is a salesman. This is not a time to be hawking unproven drugs at the daily medicine show.

SO WHAT? This is EXACTLY the time to be promoting drugs that are clearly working. If I got infected, I would INSIST on being prescribed HCQ and the ZPAK.

Yes, I agree totally. Let's promote drugs that "clearly work" and not hydroxychloroquine.

If another drug works better that HCQ more power to it. My observations are about the libtards who want to excoriate Pres. Trump over recommending a drug that HAS evidence of being efficatious.

 

[bitrex]

On 4/11/2020 9:06 PM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

bitrex <user@example.net> wrote in news:B5skG.676011$_R3.600294
@fx36.iad:

more soothing after hearing them. Ah, this will work.

The group is looking for an NDA not an NWA.

Ha ha. Free speech: Scares corporations, scares governments, scares
religions, scares Tipper Gore.