OT: I was suddenly struck with a thought (POLITICAL)

Scott Stephens · Jan 4, 2005

Jim Thompson wrote:

For some reason, over lunch, I was suddenly struck with an idea of why
the Eurotrash want to castigate the USA no matter what we do...

And its going to get worse! They called us stingy, and we give them a
billion dollars!

Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! Stupid!
Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! ....

The Eurotrash have always been fond of blaming someone else for their
woes.

Behold the wolf-pack; the alpha-male snarls, getting the best bite of
the carcass. The omega-male rolls on its belly whining, and is rewarded
by being allowed to scavenge a few fragments.

But perhaps Europe is more like an unfaithful, narcissistic whiney
crack-whore that needs a good bitch-slapping.

In the late thirties it was the Jews.

Today that's not politically correct (though I suspect the Eurotrash
still think that way), so they attack the USA instead.

It is always fashionable for the momy-culture to criticize the strong
and praise the pathetic.

So I guess we need to watch our backsides, or it will be the furnaces
for us also :-(

Wouldn't surprise me if the French were leaking Bin Ladden some heavy metal.

Jim Thompson · Jan 4, 2005

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 16:05:57 +0000, John Woodgate
<jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that Scott Stephens
Scottxs@comcast.net> wrote (in <r3xCd.325753$HA.263043@attbi_s01&gt
about 'OT: I was suddenly struck with a thought (POLITICAL)', on Tue, 4
Jan 2005:
Jim Thompson wrote:

For some reason, over lunch, I was suddenly struck with an idea of why
the Eurotrash want to castigate the USA no matter what we do...

And its going to get worse! They called us stingy, and we give them a
billion dollars!

No, this is not right. The US originally offered $35 million. At that
time, UK government had offered Ł50 million. This was within less than
50 hours after the event, when the true scale of the disaster wasn't
known. As that has become more evident, US contributions have escalated
very considerably, and many more nations have contributed, as well as
corporations and the general public. (UK public Ł74 million at the
latest report).

We live in a 'criticize and blame' culture, largely fuelled by the
'sound bite' media. In UK, we have critics sounding off about the
government aid falling below the public contribution, totally ignoring
the military aid forces that have been deployed, and promises that there
is no upper limit on the UK government contribution if needs are
identified. We also have people criticizing Blair for not returning to
UK. This is the 21st century for goodness sake; he could have been
equally in touch with events if he'd been at the south pole. For once,
there was a sensible reaction, 'Name one thing that would have been done
or done differently if the PM had been in London'.

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Spehro Pefhany · Jan 4, 2005

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 13:59:54 -0800, the renowned John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote:

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 21:10:40 +0000 (UTC), "Jim Backus"
jhb@nospam.co.uk> wrote:

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 16:33:54 UTC, John Larkin <john@spamless.usa
wrote:

Oh, cut them some slack, Jim. For thousands of years thay lived in a
culture defined by warfare. They "claimed" most of the surface of the
planet and preceded to exterminate or enslave all the "savages" they
found there.

In the case of the US most of the slaughter of "savages" occurred
after you'd thrown the Brits out.

Sad but true. The country was growing, the "savages" idea was pretty
well established, and the French and Indian Wars set some bad
precedents. It's a *very* modern concept to respect other races and
cultures. Slavery in America was another unfortunate (dare I say
"European"?) legacy that was painful to overcome, and its aftermaths
linger to this day.

Hey, the world's getting better. I think. Blaming isn't helpful, but
remembering is.

John

How many people remember what happened in Indonesia in '65? And who
supported the Suharto thugs in the slaughter of more than a million of
their own people?

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

richard mullens · Jan 7, 2005

Frithiof Andreas Jensen wrote:

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:gcdrt05lqil06mo05epefsekb5pffks7va@4ax.com...

"Keeping China away from cheap Oil" is leftist/EuroPeon trash
propaganda.

Sure - You got right ahead and Explain to the citzens in f.ex. Detroit or
Michigan how much they will benefit from cheap Chinese labour and even
cheaper manufacturing facilities if the Chinese energy costs goes down.
Maybe they will listen while someone gets the Tar and the Feathers ;-)

It is to our benefit for China to be economically
successfully, just like any other country.

While this is true - it is rather like saying that since vitamins are good
for you; then as much as you can eat is even better!

I.O.W: You need the Chinese to buy some Goods & Services from you *other*
than USD-denominated T-Bonds, currently they are not and clearly the US is
feeling the pain.

Chinese students appear to be coming to the UK in droves. They help to fund the university system, work as checkout operators
in supermarkets and raise the standard in the universities. Some of the prosperity in China is being spent over here.

Jim Thompson · Jan 7, 2005

On Fri, 7 Jan 2005 10:27:31 +0100, "Frithiof Andreas Jensen"
<frithiof.jensen@die_spammer_die.ericsson.com> wrote:

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:gcdrt05lqil06mo05epefsekb5pffks7va@4ax.com...

"Keeping China away from cheap Oil" is leftist/EuroPeon trash
propaganda.

Sure - You got right ahead and Explain to the citzens in f.ex. Detroit or
Michigan how much they will benefit from cheap Chinese labour and even
cheaper manufacturing facilities if the Chinese energy costs goes down.
Maybe they will listen while someone gets the Tar and the Feathers ;-)

It is to our benefit for China to be economically
successfully, just like any other country.

While this is true - it is rather like saying that since vitamins are good
for you; then as much as you can eat is even better!

I.O.W: You need the Chinese to buy some Goods & Services from you *other*
than USD-denominated T-Bonds, currently they are not and clearly the US is
feeling the pain.

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Jim Thompson · Jan 7, 2005

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 13:30:14 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
<speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 10:02:51 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 11:10:18 -0500, Chuck Harris
cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

[snip]

Please elaborate on "...clearly the US is feeling the pain".

...Jim Thompson

Hi Jim,

You are seeing things from an upper, upper middle class perspective. You
are a consumer of goods, and from your eyes, a good quality product, at a
lower price is a better deal for you.

Look through the eyes of the factory workers who are now on welfare because the
nice stable factory jobs they once enjoyed have been exported to other countries,
perhaps China or Mexico. To them, the task of retraining from a job that used
their hands, to a job that uses their minds is as difficult as becoming a
journeyman brick layer would be for you.

You are a thinker, not a manual laborer, they are laborers, not thinkers.

-Chuck

Over the past year and a half I have observed an event in my home
town, Huntington, WV.

First when I attended my 45th HS reunion in the summer of 2003 I
observed that INCO, a manufacturer of nickel metal stampings had asked
the union to ease up on their demands for higher wages, already
averaging $50K (a goodly wage in Huntington, WV). INCO also provided
substantial health and retirement benefits.

The union refused and went out on strike.

This past October, while attending my wife's 45th HS reunion, I found
that INCO had declared bankruptcy and shut the doors. Health and
retirement benefits went pfffft ;-)

The factory has now reopened as "Specialty Metals".

Wages are one-half what they were. There is no union, no health
benefits or retirement.

Now who the fuck's fault is that?

I suppose the leftist wienies will say it's because of out-sourcing
;-)

...Jim Thompson

Apparently, INCO (the Canadian nickel giant--
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=N) sold their WV factory (part of Inco
Alloys International Inc.) to Special Metals of New Hartford NY, and
two months *later* the 800 workers went on strike. But the result was
pretty much the same as you suggest, AFAIUI. Sounds like the plant was
not viable, so Inco dumped it (as a none-core business) for what they
could get, and Special Metals tried to restructure, but the workers
were not going to go along with it. As usual, the bank (Credit
Lyonnais) pulled the plug:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_1999_Dec_29/ai_58396567

http://www.courier-journal.com/business/news2004/03/30/F1-pension30-5759.html

"Special Metals in Huntington, W.Va., which also filed for bankruptcy,
handed most of its pension obligations to the federal government. It
also canceled its health insurance for retirees, forcing many to pay
for coverage they thought they had already paid for through
collective-bargaining agreements."

...so, you can also blame the French financiers and the former
Canadian management ;-)

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Jim Thompson · Jan 7, 2005

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 14:21:22 -0500, Chuck Harris
<cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

Over the past year and a half I have observed an event in my home
town, Huntington, WV.

First when I attended my 45th HS reunion in the summer of 2003 I
observed that INCO, a manufacturer of nickel metal stampings had asked
the union to ease up on their demands for higher wages, already
averaging $50K (a goodly wage in Huntington, WV). INCO also provided
substantial health and retirement benefits.

The union refused and went out on strike.

This past October, while attending my wife's 45th HS reunion, I found
that INCO had declared bankruptcy and shut the doors. Health and
retirement benefits went pfffft ;-)

The factory has now reopened as "Specialty Metals".

Wages are one-half what they were. There is no union, no health
benefits or retirement.

Now who the fuck's fault is that?

There has to be a reason why the product was no longer viable at
the production costs/levels that existed in the past. Unless the
market suddenly no longer uses nickel metal stampings, the need
for reducing the wages of the workers was either greed on the part
of management, shareholders, creditors..., or an inability to compete
in the marketplace due to a lower priced alternative.

AIUI (from my father, who stills lives in Huntington), there was no
initial need to "reduce" wages, just to hold them flat. But the union
balked.

We live in a capitalistic market place. If INCO/Specialty Metals
was too overpriced to compete in that market, who set the price that
they had to meet or beat?

I would bet that "who" is offshore companies. Anybody know the truth?

I suppose the leftist wienies will say it's because of out-sourcing

Do you know that it wasn't? I'm not a "leftest wienie", but I think
if you check you will find that offshoring is exactly why they had to
shake things up at INCO.

-Chuck Harris

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Spehro Pefhany · Jan 7, 2005

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 14:21:22 -0500, the renowned Chuck Harris
<cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

Over the past year and a half I have observed an event in my home
town, Huntington, WV.

First when I attended my 45th HS reunion in the summer of 2003 I
observed that INCO, a manufacturer of nickel metal stampings had asked
the union to ease up on their demands for higher wages, already
averaging $50K (a goodly wage in Huntington, WV). INCO also provided
substantial health and retirement benefits.

The union refused and went out on strike.

This past October, while attending my wife's 45th HS reunion, I found
that INCO had declared bankruptcy and shut the doors. Health and
retirement benefits went pfffft ;-)

The factory has now reopened as "Specialty Metals".

Wages are one-half what they were. There is no union, no health
benefits or retirement.

Now who the fuck's fault is that?

There has to be a reason why the product was no longer viable at
the production costs/levels that existed in the past. Unless the
market suddenly no longer uses nickel metal stampings, the need
for reducing the wages of the workers was either greed on the part
of management, shareholders, creditors..., or an inability to compete
in the marketplace due to a lower priced alternative.

We live in a capitalistic market place. If INCO/Specialty Metals
was too overpriced to compete in that market, who set the price that
they had to meet or beat?

I would bet that "who" is offshore companies. Anybody know the truth?

I suppose the leftist wienies will say it's because of out-sourcing

Do you know that it wasn't? I'm not a "leftest wienie", but I think
if you check you will find that offshoring is exactly why they had to
shake things up at INCO.

-Chuck Harris

Seems like it was, at least partly, a result of the Asian econmic
crisis of 1997/8, which forced the Japanese, Korean and Russian
producers of high-performance nickel alloys to seek additional
markets. Special Metals is an American company with production only in
the US and Europe. They emerged from bankrupcy only a year ago, in the
midst of another close to fight-to-the-death by the union.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3MKT/is_2002_August_16/ai_90444803
http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/kentucky/business/6760838.htm
http://www.hdonline.com/2003/October/22/LNtop1.htm
http://www.hdonline.com/2003/November/26/LNspot.htm
http://www.metalcenternews.com/2004/January/mcn0401min.htm#Special

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Spehro Pefhany · Jan 7, 2005

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 12:40:31 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

I blame the workers.

...Jim Thompson

Do you get _Coronation Street_ ? It's kind of a TV staple here. There
was a show on last week (I don't really watch it, but it was on in the
same room) where a factory had burned down (due to the carelessness of
a couple of the workers, IIRC) and the owner was worrying about
whether the insurance would pay off because it excluded fires caused
by smoking. Anyway, a bunch of the workers came around to the owner's
house and asked about keeping their jobs- and said he really should be
paying them anyway. When the fact the factory was gutted and there
were no suppliers, no customers and therefore no money, they said
"Well, that's not really our problem, is it?". They were probably
right under British labour laws too.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Pig Bladder · Jan 7, 2005

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 19:58:04 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 02:36:44 GMT, richard mullens
mullensdeletethis@ntlworld.com> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
For some reason, over lunch, I was suddenly struck with an idea of why
the Eurotrash want to castigate the USA no matter what we do...

The Eurotrash have always been fond of blaming someone else for their
woes.

In the late thirties it was the Jews.

Today that's not politically correct (though I suspect the Eurotrash
still think that way), so they attack the USA instead.

So I guess we need to watch our backsides, or it will be the furnaces
for us also :-(

It is quite simply that US foreign policy stinks. Surely nobody can deny that they have fucked up big time in Iraq. The
problem (as I see it) is that whereas all nations have a majority of their people who are uncivilised, in the USA it is they who
are in power.

We simply haven't applied enough troops to the problem.

Now I _know_ you're nothing but a nazi dupe. "More Killing! That'll solve
my problems! Kill More! KILL MORE!!!!!"

I hope you die very slowly and painfully, but I'm sure your lord and
master will protect you from any of the inconveniences of actual Life.
--
The Pig Bladder From Uranus, Still Waiting for
Some Hot Babe to Ask What My Favorite Planet Is.

Pig Bladder · Jan 7, 2005

On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 13:56:24 +0000, Fred Bloggs wrote:

richard mullens wrote:
It is quite simply that US foreign policy stinks. Surely nobody can
deny that they have fucked up big time in Iraq.

You really cannot characterize the invasion of Iraq as a US action, it
was a Bush action. The entire plan of action went against every bit of
the established science for conducting military, political, and economic
campaigns of this magnitude. The morons who would condone this war are
ignorant people of low intelligence, unimportant people,

I'd rethink that "unimportant" part - they did elect King George and
Prince Dick, Prince Donald, et al.
--
The Pig Bladder From Uranus, Still Waiting for
Some Hot Babe to Ask What My Favorite Planet Is.

John Woodgate · Jan 7, 2005

I read in sci.electronics.design that Pig Bladder
<pigbladder@neodruid.net> wrote (in <pan.2005.01.07.20.43.14.982899@neod
ruid.net&gt

about 'OT: I was suddenly struck with a thought (POLITICAL)',
on Fri, 7 Jan 2005:

I hope you die very slowly and painfully,

What, dear old Jim? He of the megabar-BQ and the owl? I guess you must
be a Christian.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

John Larkin · Jan 7, 2005

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 14:04:11 -0700, Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

Sometimes: The History Channel

We call it the Hitler Channel.

John

Frank Bemelman · Jan 7, 2005

"Spehro Pefhany" <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> schreef in bericht
news:0cvtt0l84lk9rvnhoafidlrbl3jve4ive9@4ax.com...

On Fri, 7 Jan 2005 20:59:44 +0000, the renowned John Woodgate
jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that Pig Bladder
pigbladder@neodruid.net> wrote (in <pan.2005.01.07.20.43.14.982899@neod
ruid.net&gt about 'OT: I was suddenly struck with a thought (POLITICAL)',
on Fri, 7 Jan 2005:
I hope you die very slowly and painfully,

What, dear old Jim? He of the megabar-BQ and the owl? I guess you must
be a Christian.

Well, we can turn the other cheek and wish Mr. Bladder just the
opposite of what he wishes for Jim. ;-)

I second both wishes and wouldn't mind if it happened soon.

--
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'q' and 'invalid' when replying by email)

John Fields · Jan 7, 2005

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 20:38:15 GMT, Pig Bladder
<pigbladder@neodruid.net> wrote:

I hope you die very slowly and painfully,

---
Would you also hope to be there so that you can chortle with glee as
you watch someone suffering the misery and torture you wished on them?

--
John Fields

gwhite · Jan 7, 2005

Chuck Harris wrote:

We have many many more sources of
news than just Fox.

Of course. We can afford more diverse news sources a little better because our
government is not socialist to quite the degree theirs is (as a
generalization). Socialism is very expensive.

Rich The Philosophizer · Jan 7, 2005

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 20:59:44 +0000, John Woodgate wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that Pig Bladder
pigbladder@neodruid.net> wrote (in <pan.2005.01.07.20.43.14.982899@neod
ruid.net&gt about 'OT: I was suddenly struck with a thought (POLITICAL)',
on Fri, 7 Jan 2005:
I hope you die very slowly and painfully,

What, dear old Jim? He of the megabar-BQ and the owl? I guess you must
be a Christian.

Well, no, I'm not a Christian at all, albeit I don't deny that Jesus was a
martyr and a bunch of people started a whole "Faith" around him. But he
was trying to teach Love two thousand years ago, and the fundamental
problems with Creation have only just recently been discovered. And the
problem, of course, is denial.

Thanks,
Rich

"I know you have all asked yourselves, at one time or another, 'If there
is a god that has any power, then why are things the way they are on Earth?'"
- God

Rich The Philosophizer · Jan 7, 2005

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 16:12:38 -0600, John Fields wrote:

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 20:38:15 GMT, Pig Bladder
pigbladder@neodruid.net> wrote:

I hope you die very slowly and painfully,

---
Would you also hope to be there so that you can chortle with glee as
you watch someone suffering the misery and torture you wished on them?

No, I'd like to be there to offer aid, comfort, and healing to the lost
and trapped Will fragments that will be freed when his denial spirit is
fially put in its right place.

Thanks,
Rich

John Woodgate · Jan 4, 2005

I read in sci.electronics.design that Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote (in <g3olt0t7grkh4km10mhoakm5575c1tl106@
4ax.com&gt

about 'OT: I was suddenly struck with a thought (POLITICAL)',
on Tue, 4 Jan 2005:

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 17:47:21 +0000, John Woodgate <jmw@jmwa.demon.contras
pam.yuk> wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote (in <kpglt05sb536l4tgkvd3o11reni4ec4c6v@
4ax.com&gt about 'OT: I was suddenly struck with a thought (POLITICAL)',
on Tue, 4 Jan 2005:

Who was it that declared a "coin" war? While everyone else is touting
how much they gave, WE WENT THERE!

There's a 'few' Brits there, too, some volunteers, some in uniform.

Absolutely! But wonder how many Frogs ?

None for very long. Very tasty, frogs, especially if you've nothing
else.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

Jim Thompson · Jan 4, 2005

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 13:54:42 -0800, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote:

Hey, JohnF, we're now official members in good standing of the F.B.
Plonk Club! Calls for a beer, huh?

JohnL

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| E-mail Address at Website Fax

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