OT: Honda Thinks Hybrids Are Good Enough

[Rick C]

Q (ANE): Honda wants two-thirds of its global sales to come from electrified vehicles by 2030. What is your road to electrification when demand for hybrids and EVs is still undeveloped?

A (Hachiago ): I believe hybrid vehicles will play a critical role. The objective is not electrification, per se, but improving fuel efficiency. And we believe hybrid vehicles are the way to abide by different environmental regulations.

So the head of Honda doesn't get it. Getting better fuel economy isn't the goal at all. Eliminating carbon emissions is the goal. Hybrids are inherently flawed in that for most people they still require burning of fossil fuel. If not, why have the gasoline motor at all?


Q: What about full-electric vehicles?

A: Are there really customers who truly want them? I’m not so sure because there are lots of issues regarding infrastructure and hardware. I do not believe there will be a dramatic increase in demand for battery vehicles, and I believe this situation is true globally. There are different regulations in different countries, and we have to abide by them. So it’s a must to continue R&D. But I don’t believe it will become mainstream anytime soon.

Now he doubles down and ignores the rapid increase in fully electric vehicles. Tesla continues to geometrically increase production of BEVs in the US as they start production in China and begin construction on a facility in Germany as other EV companies expand as well. He also talks about the issues of "infrastructure" as if that were somehow an insurmountable problem going forward. I guess if you do nothing about a problem, then it is indeed insurmountable.

I'm wondering where Honda will be in 5 and 10 years time? There's some irony here. I have trouble tracking the minimal efforts put out by the various vendors, but it seems Honda themselves built 300 of the Honda EV Plus with a 80 to 100 mile range, pretty good for driving locally. That could have become the basis for the Corolla killer if they had stuck with it.

No, it is pretty clear that both for environmental reasons and marketing reasons, hybrids are not the way forward. It's amazing the CEO of a major auto company can't see that.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

On Tuesday, January 7, 2020 at 11:02:03 AM UTC-5, Rick C wrote:

Q (ANE): Honda wants two-thirds of its global sales to come from electrified vehicles by 2030. What is your road to electrification when demand for hybrids and EVs is still undeveloped?

A (Hachiago ): I believe hybrid vehicles will play a critical role. The objective is not electrification, per se, but improving fuel efficiency. And we believe hybrid vehicles are the way to abide by different environmental regulations.

So the head of Honda doesn't get it. Getting better fuel economy isn't the goal at all. Eliminating carbon emissions is the goal. Hybrids are inherently flawed in that for most people they still require burning of fossil fuel. If not, why have the gasoline motor at all?


Q: What about full-electric vehicles?

A: Are there really customers who truly want them? I’m not so sure because there are lots of issues regarding infrastructure and hardware. I do not believe there will be a dramatic increase in demand for battery vehicles, and I believe this situation is true globally. There are different regulations in different countries, and we have to abide by them. So it’s a must to continue R&D. But I don’t believe it will become mainstream anytime soon.

Now he doubles down and ignores the rapid increase in fully electric vehicles. Tesla continues to geometrically increase production of BEVs in the US as they start production in China and begin construction on a facility in Germany as other EV companies expand as well. He also talks about the issues of "infrastructure" as if that were somehow an insurmountable problem going forward. I guess if you do nothing about a problem, then it is indeed insurmountable.

I'm wondering where Honda will be in 5 and 10 years time? There's some irony here. I have trouble tracking the minimal efforts put out by the various vendors, but it seems Honda themselves built 300 of the Honda EV Plus with a 80 to 100 mile range, pretty good for driving locally. That could have become the basis for the Corolla killer if they had stuck with it.

No, it is pretty clear that both for environmental reasons and marketing reasons, hybrids are not the way forward. It's amazing the CEO of a major auto company can't see that.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Maybe this is a different Honda:
https://global.honda/innovation/FuelCell.html

 

[DemonicTubes]

On Tuesday, January 7, 2020 at 9:02:03 AM UTC-7, Rick C wrote:

Q (ANE): Honda wants two-thirds of its global sales to come from electrified vehicles by 2030. What is your road to electrification when demand for hybrids and EVs is still undeveloped?

A (Hachiago ): I believe hybrid vehicles will play a critical role. The objective is not electrification, per se, but improving fuel efficiency. And we believe hybrid vehicles are the way to abide by different environmental regulations.

So the head of Honda doesn't get it. Getting better fuel economy isn't the goal at all. Eliminating carbon emissions is the goal. Hybrids are inherently flawed in that for most people they still require burning of fossil fuel. If not, why have the gasoline motor at all?


Q: What about full-electric vehicles?

A: Are there really customers who truly want them? I’m not so sure because there are lots of issues regarding infrastructure and hardware. I do not believe there will be a dramatic increase in demand for battery vehicles, and I believe this situation is true globally. There are different regulations in different countries, and we have to abide by them. So it’s a must to continue R&D. But I don’t believe it will become mainstream anytime soon.

Now he doubles down and ignores the rapid increase in fully electric vehicles. Tesla continues to geometrically increase production of BEVs in the US as they start production in China and begin construction on a facility in Germany as other EV companies expand as well. He also talks about the issues of "infrastructure" as if that were somehow an insurmountable problem going forward. I guess if you do nothing about a problem, then it is indeed insurmountable.

I'm wondering where Honda will be in 5 and 10 years time? There's some irony here. I have trouble tracking the minimal efforts put out by the various vendors, but it seems Honda themselves built 300 of the Honda EV Plus with a 80 to 100 mile range, pretty good for driving locally. That could have become the basis for the Corolla killer if they had stuck with it.

No, it is pretty clear that both for environmental reasons and marketing reasons, hybrids are not the way forward. It's amazing the CEO of a major auto company can't see that.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Not arguing with you, but want to point out that Honda and Tesla serve very different market segments, so their current stance isn't totally unexpected.

 

[Whoey Louie]

On Tuesday, January 7, 2020 at 11:02:03 AM UTC-5, Rick C wrote:

Q (ANE): Honda wants two-thirds of its global sales to come from electrified vehicles by 2030. What is your road to electrification when demand for hybrids and EVs is still undeveloped?

A (Hachiago ): I believe hybrid vehicles will play a critical role. The objective is not electrification, per se, but improving fuel efficiency. And we believe hybrid vehicles are the way to abide by different environmental regulations.

So the head of Honda doesn't get it. Getting better fuel economy isn't the goal at all. Eliminating carbon emissions is the goal. Hybrids are inherently flawed in that for most people they still require burning of fossil fuel. If not, why have the gasoline motor at all?

I say he gets it. Better fuel economy does directly reduce carbon
emissions. Are you so radical that even a small, limited use gas
engine is unacceptable? A small, gas engine that makes the car actually
PRACTICAL, so that more people will buy it? Is it better that consumers
buy a Honda plug-in hybrid or a ICE vehicle? If you want to charge it
mostly with AC, go ahead. If the car is dead and you need to go on
a trip right now, you can. Sounds great to me. Besides, Honda,
unlike radicals, has to actually sell them.

Q: What about full-electric vehicles?

A: Are there really customers who truly want them? I’m not so sure because there are lots of issues regarding infrastructure and hardware. I do not believe there will be a dramatic increase in demand for battery vehicles, and I believe this situation is true globally. There are different regulations in different countries, and we have to abide by them. So it’s a must to continue R&D. But I don’t believe it will become mainstream anytime soon.

Now he doubles down and ignores the rapid increase in fully electric vehicles. Tesla continues to geometrically increase production of BEVs in the US as they start production in China and begin construction on a facility in Germany as other EV companies expand as well. He also talks about the issues of "infrastructure" as if that were somehow an insurmountable problem going forward. I guess if you do nothing about a problem, then it is indeed insurmountable.

I'm wondering where Honda will be in 5 and 10 years time?

Still building cars, that's where.




There's some irony here. I have trouble tracking the minimal efforts put out by the various vendors, but it seems Honda themselves built 300 of the Honda EV Plus with a 80 to 100 mile range, pretty good for driving locally. That could have become the basis for the Corolla killer if they had stuck with it.

No, it is pretty clear that both for environmental reasons and marketing reasons, hybrids are not the way forward. It's amazing the CEO of a major auto company can't see that.

--

Rick C.

It's amazing that zealots like you are zealots and can't accept
real progress that is reducing emissions. No, it's not that lots
of things can help, leave people and companies free to choose what
fits their needs. No, it's the old my way or the highway.

 

Whoey Louie <trader4@optonline.net> wrote in news:52ca02b9-d062-4554-
8760-a51ba14de409@googlegroups.com:

> No, it's the old my way or the highway.

Yeah... you've never exhibited that behavior.

Batteries work. Eventually we will adopt a system that allows for
zero emmissions traveling. There will be entire cities where gas
driven and large vehicles will not enter, and the large truck
deliveries will get handled at the city fringes, but will not enter.

Pretty much will be cash free as well, so no more robberies with that
motive.

 

[Rick C]

On Tuesday, January 7, 2020 at 1:16:52 PM UTC-5, DemonicTubes wrote:

On Tuesday, January 7, 2020 at 9:02:03 AM UTC-7, Rick C wrote:
Q (ANE): Honda wants two-thirds of its global sales to come from electrified vehicles by 2030. What is your road to electrification when demand for hybrids and EVs is still undeveloped?

A (Hachiago ): I believe hybrid vehicles will play a critical role. The objective is not electrification, per se, but improving fuel efficiency. And we believe hybrid vehicles are the way to abide by different environmental regulations.

So the head of Honda doesn't get it. Getting better fuel economy isn't the goal at all. Eliminating carbon emissions is the goal. Hybrids are inherently flawed in that for most people they still require burning of fossil fuel. If not, why have the gasoline motor at all?


Q: What about full-electric vehicles?

A: Are there really customers who truly want them? I’m not so sure because there are lots of issues regarding infrastructure and hardware. I do not believe there will be a dramatic increase in demand for battery vehicles, and I believe this situation is true globally. There are different regulations in different countries, and we have to abide by them. So it’s a must to continue R&D. But I don’t believe it will become mainstream anytime soon.

Now he doubles down and ignores the rapid increase in fully electric vehicles. Tesla continues to geometrically increase production of BEVs in the US as they start production in China and begin construction on a facility in Germany as other EV companies expand as well. He also talks about the issues of "infrastructure" as if that were somehow an insurmountable problem going forward. I guess if you do nothing about a problem, then it is indeed insurmountable.

I'm wondering where Honda will be in 5 and 10 years time? There's some irony here. I have trouble tracking the minimal efforts put out by the various vendors, but it seems Honda themselves built 300 of the Honda EV Plus with a 80 to 100 mile range, pretty good for driving locally. That could have become the basis for the Corolla killer if they had stuck with it.

No, it is pretty clear that both for environmental reasons and marketing reasons, hybrids are not the way forward. It's amazing the CEO of a major auto company can't see that.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Not arguing with you, but want to point out that Honda and Tesla serve very different market segments, so their current stance isn't totally unexpected.

Exactly! Honda can't see beyond their market segment while the world need to end carbon pollution. It's not actually about Honda vs. Tesla, but all polluting companies against the world.

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Tuesday, January 7, 2020 at 2:05:22 PM UTC-5, Whoey Louie wrote:

On Tuesday, January 7, 2020 at 11:02:03 AM UTC-5, Rick C wrote:
Q (ANE): Honda wants two-thirds of its global sales to come from electrified vehicles by 2030. What is your road to electrification when demand for hybrids and EVs is still undeveloped?

A (Hachiago ): I believe hybrid vehicles will play a critical role. The objective is not electrification, per se, but improving fuel efficiency. And we believe hybrid vehicles are the way to abide by different environmental regulations.

So the head of Honda doesn't get it. Getting better fuel economy isn't the goal at all. Eliminating carbon emissions is the goal. Hybrids are inherently flawed in that for most people they still require burning of fossil fuel. If not, why have the gasoline motor at all?


I say he gets it. Better fuel economy does directly reduce carbon
emissions.

The goal is not "reducing" CO2 emissions. It is to eliminate them. Are you also a climate change denialist? Or do you understand we need to cut CO2 emissions to zero?

Are you so radical that even a small, limited use gas
engine is unacceptable?

What is limited use about it??? It propels the car even if through the battery and electric motor. They get lower CO2 emissions, but not low enough. Do you want to put the exhaust gasses in your home?

A small, gas engine that makes the car actually
PRACTICAL, so that more people will buy it? Is it better that consumers
buy a Honda plug-in hybrid or a ICE vehicle? If you want to charge it
mostly with AC, go ahead. If the car is dead and you need to go on
a trip right now, you can. Sounds great to me. Besides, Honda,
unlike radicals, has to actually sell them.

I'm not going to try to educate you on EVs since you have an obvious bias. You do misrepresent the issues, but since you do it knowingly, no point in discussing it with you.

Q: What about full-electric vehicles?

A: Are there really customers who truly want them? I’m not so sure because there are lots of issues regarding infrastructure and hardware. I do not believe there will be a dramatic increase in demand for battery vehicles, and I believe this situation is true globally. There are different regulations in different countries, and we have to abide by them. So it’s a must to continue R&D. But I don’t believe it will become mainstream anytime soon.

Now he doubles down and ignores the rapid increase in fully electric vehicles. Tesla continues to geometrically increase production of BEVs in the US as they start production in China and begin construction on a facility in Germany as other EV companies expand as well. He also talks about the issues of "infrastructure" as if that were somehow an insurmountable problem going forward. I guess if you do nothing about a problem, then it is indeed insurmountable.

I'm wondering where Honda will be in 5 and 10 years time?

Still building cars, that's where.




There's some irony here. I have trouble tracking the minimal efforts put out by the various vendors, but it seems Honda themselves built 300 of the Honda EV Plus with a 80 to 100 mile range, pretty good for driving locally. That could have become the basis for the Corolla killer if they had stuck with it.

No, it is pretty clear that both for environmental reasons and marketing reasons, hybrids are not the way forward. It's amazing the CEO of a major auto company can't see that.

--

Rick C.



It's amazing that zealots like you are zealots and can't accept
real progress that is reducing emissions. No, it's not that lots
of things can help, leave people and companies free to choose what
fits their needs. No, it's the old my way or the highway.

You are the sort of person who switches to low tar cigarettes rather than quitting. Ok, I got it.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Tuesday, January 7, 2020 at 2:52:08 PM UTC-5, DecadentLinux...@decadence..org wrote:

Whoey Louie <trader4@optonline.net> wrote in news:52ca02b9-d062-4554-
8760-a51ba14de409@googlegroups.com:

No, it's the old my way or the highway.

Yeah... you've never exhibited that behavior.

Batteries work. Eventually we will adopt a system that allows for
zero emmissions traveling. There will be entire cities where gas
driven and large vehicles will not enter, and the large truck
deliveries will get handled at the city fringes, but will not enter.

No need to ban large vehicles. There are several companies designing large semi trucks as EVs, Tesla among them. You've not seen any of these in the press? All the large trucking companies are signed up to test drive them because they offer lower costs.

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[bitrex]

On 1/7/20 2:05 PM, Whoey Louie wrote:

On Tuesday, January 7, 2020 at 11:02:03 AM UTC-5, Rick C wrote:
Q (ANE): Honda wants two-thirds of its global sales to come from electrified vehicles by 2030. What is your road to electrification when demand for hybrids and EVs is still undeveloped?

A (Hachiago ): I believe hybrid vehicles will play a critical role. The objective is not electrification, per se, but improving fuel efficiency. And we believe hybrid vehicles are the way to abide by different environmental regulations.

So the head of Honda doesn't get it. Getting better fuel economy isn't the goal at all. Eliminating carbon emissions is the goal. Hybrids are inherently flawed in that for most people they still require burning of fossil fuel. If not, why have the gasoline motor at all?


I say he gets it. Better fuel economy does directly reduce carbon
emissions. Are you so radical that even a small, limited use gas
engine is unacceptable? A small, gas engine that makes the car actually
PRACTICAL, so that more people will buy it? Is it better that consumers
buy a Honda plug-in hybrid or a ICE vehicle? If you want to charge it
mostly with AC, go ahead. If the car is dead and you need to go on
a trip right now, you can. Sounds great to me. Besides, Honda,
unlike radicals, has to actually sell them.

Rick C is a stereotype of an out-of-touch "coastal elite leftist"; he
seems to have very little conception about how the vast majority of
Americans live their lives or how much money they have to spend on
things or how they buy cars or what they do with the ones they have.

Doesn't seem to understand the concept of "market segments" or that 70%
of Americans have difficulty paying the rent/mortgage on time, much less
paying cash for new automobiles off the lot. And the vast majority of
them sure as shit aren't factoring in "eliminating carbon emissions" as
a purchase goal when they think about what car to get.

They're not trying to compete with Tesla because Tesla has cornered the
market of Tesla buyers pretty effectively.

 

Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
news:5f70ffd0-3692-495f-9b66-02af5b6981bf@googlegroups.com:

On Tuesday, January 7, 2020 at 2:52:08 PM UTC-5,
DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
Whoey Louie <trader4@optonline.net> wrote in
news:52ca02b9-d062-4554- 8760-a51ba14de409@googlegroups.com:

No, it's the old my way or the highway.

Yeah... you've never exhibited that behavior.

Batteries work. Eventually we will adopt a system that allows
for
zero emmissions traveling. There will be entire cities where gas
driven and large vehicles will not enter, and the large truck
deliveries will get handled at the city fringes, but will not
enter.

No need to ban large vehicles. There are several companies
designing large semi trucks as EVs, Tesla among them. You've not
seen any of these in the press? All the large trucking companies
are signed up to test drive them because they offer lower costs.

Not banning them or cars. Just will not be allowed to pass the
city perimeter. The city itself is heavy machinery free. No
concrete and steel, bullets or bars. It will be a learning mecca.

With the most learned thing being about how to move electrons
around when and where we want them and how forcefully. Photons too.
No cars or trucks or any ICE machinery at all.

I have always thought that leaf blowers are lame. We have enough
dust and don't need to be kicking up even more on a daily basis.

 

[Jeroen Belleman]

On 2020-01-07 23:08, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
[...]

I have always thought that leaf blowers are lame. We have enough
dust and don't need to be kicking up even more on a daily basis.

Agree! Moreover, around here these things use noisy stinking
two-stroke engines. Disgusting!

Jeroen Belleman

 

[bitrex]

On 1/7/20 4:15 PM, Rick C wrote:

On Tuesday, January 7, 2020 at 2:05:22 PM UTC-5, Whoey Louie wrote:
On Tuesday, January 7, 2020 at 11:02:03 AM UTC-5, Rick C wrote:
Q (ANE): Honda wants two-thirds of its global sales to come from electrified vehicles by 2030. What is your road to electrification when demand for hybrids and EVs is still undeveloped?

A (Hachiago ): I believe hybrid vehicles will play a critical role. The objective is not electrification, per se, but improving fuel efficiency. And we believe hybrid vehicles are the way to abide by different environmental regulations.

So the head of Honda doesn't get it. Getting better fuel economy isn't the goal at all. Eliminating carbon emissions is the goal. Hybrids are inherently flawed in that for most people they still require burning of fossil fuel. If not, why have the gasoline motor at all?


I say he gets it. Better fuel economy does directly reduce carbon
emissions.

The goal is not "reducing" CO2 emissions. It is to eliminate them. Are you also a climate change denialist? Or do you understand we need to cut CO2 emissions to zero?


Are you so radical that even a small, limited use gas
engine is unacceptable?

What is limited use about it??? It propels the car even if through the battery and electric motor. They get lower CO2 emissions, but not low enough. Do you want to put the exhaust gasses in your home?


A small, gas engine that makes the car actually
PRACTICAL, so that more people will buy it? Is it better that consumers
buy a Honda plug-in hybrid or a ICE vehicle? If you want to charge it
mostly with AC, go ahead. If the car is dead and you need to go on
a trip right now, you can. Sounds great to me. Besides, Honda,
unlike radicals, has to actually sell them.

I'm not going to try to educate you on EVs since you have an obvious bias. You do misrepresent the issues, but since you do it knowingly, no point in discussing it with you.


Q: What about full-electric vehicles?

A: Are there really customers who truly want them? I’m not so sure because there are lots of issues regarding infrastructure and hardware. I do not believe there will be a dramatic increase in demand for battery vehicles, and I believe this situation is true globally. There are different regulations in different countries, and we have to abide by them. So it’s a must to continue R&D. But I don’t believe it will become mainstream anytime soon.

Now he doubles down and ignores the rapid increase in fully electric vehicles. Tesla continues to geometrically increase production of BEVs in the US as they start production in China and begin construction on a facility in Germany as other EV companies expand as well. He also talks about the issues of "infrastructure" as if that were somehow an insurmountable problem going forward. I guess if you do nothing about a problem, then it is indeed insurmountable.

I'm wondering where Honda will be in 5 and 10 years time?

Still building cars, that's where.




There's some irony here. I have trouble tracking the minimal efforts put out by the various vendors, but it seems Honda themselves built 300 of the Honda EV Plus with a 80 to 100 mile range, pretty good for driving locally. That could have become the basis for the Corolla killer if they had stuck with it.

No, it is pretty clear that both for environmental reasons and marketing reasons, hybrids are not the way forward. It's amazing the CEO of a major auto company can't see that.

--

Rick C.



It's amazing that zealots like you are zealots and can't accept
real progress that is reducing emissions. No, it's not that lots
of things can help, leave people and companies free to choose what
fits their needs. No, it's the old my way or the highway.

You are the sort of person who switches to low tar cigarettes rather than quitting. Ok, I got it.

<https://grist.org/article/u-s-military-emits-more-co2-than-most-countries/>

But Joe Sixpack not going full-electric immediately is like, "morally
wrong", or something.

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 6:05:22 AM UTC+11, Whoey Louie wrote:

On Tuesday, January 7, 2020 at 11:02:03 AM UTC-5, Rick C wrote:
Q (ANE): Honda wants two-thirds of its global sales to come from electrified vehicles by 2030. What is your road to electrification when demand for hybrids and EVs is still undeveloped?

A (Hachiago ): I believe hybrid vehicles will play a critical role. The objective is not electrification, per se, but improving fuel efficiency. And we believe hybrid vehicles are the way to abide by different environmental regulations.

So the head of Honda doesn't get it. Getting better fuel economy isn't the goal at all. Eliminating carbon emissions is the goal. Hybrids are inherently flawed in that for most people they still require burning of fossil fuel. If not, why have the gasoline motor at all?


I say he gets it. Better fuel economy does directly reduce carbon
emissions. Are you so radical that even a small, limited use gas
engine is unacceptable?

The problem is that we have to reduce carbon emissions fast, and to a rather low level - about half a ton of CO2 per person per year.

A hybrid is a step in the right direction, but doesn't take us as far as we have to go.

A small, gas engine that makes the car actually
PRACTICAL, so that more people will buy it? Is it better that consumers
buy a Honda plug-in hybrid or a ICE vehicle? If you want to charge it
mostly with AC, go ahead. If the car is dead and you need to go on
a trip right now, you can. Sounds great to me. Besides, Honda,
unlike radicals, has to actually sell them.

Q: What about full-electric vehicles?

A: Are there really customers who truly want them? I’m not so sure because there are lots of issues regarding infrastructure and hardware. I do not believe there will be a dramatic increase in demand for battery vehicles, and I believe this situation is true globally. There are different regulations in different countries, and we have to abide by them. So it’s a must to continue R&D. But I don’t believe it will become mainstream anytime soon.

Now he doubles down and ignores the rapid increase in fully electric vehicles. Tesla continues to geometrically increase production of BEVs in the US as they start production in China and begin construction on a facility in Germany as other EV companies expand as well. He also talks about the issues of "infrastructure" as if that were somehow an insurmountable problem going forward. I guess if you do nothing about a problem, then it is indeed insurmountable.

I'm wondering where Honda will be in 5 and 10 years time?

Still building cars, that's where.

And mostly electric cars, like everybody else.

There's some irony here. I have trouble tracking the minimal efforts put out by the various vendors, but it seems Honda themselves built 300 of the Honda EV Plus with a 80 to 100 mile range, pretty good for driving locally. That could have become the basis for the Corolla killer if they had stuck with it.

No, it is pretty clear that both for environmental reasons and marketing reasons, hybrids are not the way forward. It's amazing the CEO of a major auto company can't see that.

It's amazing that zealots like you are zealots and can't accept
real progress that is reducing emissions.

Real progress is good, but it needs to take us to zero emissions, and the sooner the better. Australia's bush-fires make the point that even the global warming we've had so far is creating very real problems, and we need to stop the warming as fast as we can.

> No, it's not that lots of things can help, leave people and companies free to choose what fits their needs. No, it's the old my way or the highway.

One of the side effects of the bushfires currently burning in eastern Australia is that a lot of highways have been temporarily blocked.

People can burnt to death by driving through a bushfire as it crosses a road.

It nearly happened to me back in 1968 - I drove through bushfire smoke, and fifteen minutes later people who thought that that was what they were doing ended up in flames and dead.

Your way has more risks than you seem to realise.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[bitrex]

On 1/7/20 6:11 PM, Bill Sloman wrote:

On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 6:05:22 AM UTC+11, Whoey Louie wrote:
On Tuesday, January 7, 2020 at 11:02:03 AM UTC-5, Rick C wrote:
Q (ANE): Honda wants two-thirds of its global sales to come from electrified vehicles by 2030. What is your road to electrification when demand for hybrids and EVs is still undeveloped?

A (Hachiago ): I believe hybrid vehicles will play a critical role. The objective is not electrification, per se, but improving fuel efficiency. And we believe hybrid vehicles are the way to abide by different environmental regulations.

So the head of Honda doesn't get it. Getting better fuel economy isn't the goal at all. Eliminating carbon emissions is the goal. Hybrids are inherently flawed in that for most people they still require burning of fossil fuel. If not, why have the gasoline motor at all?


I say he gets it. Better fuel economy does directly reduce carbon
emissions. Are you so radical that even a small, limited use gas
engine is unacceptable?

The problem is that we have to reduce carbon emissions fast, and to a rather low level - about half a ton of CO2 per person per year.

A hybrid is a step in the right direction, but doesn't take us as far as we have to go.

A small, gas engine that makes the car actually
PRACTICAL, so that more people will buy it? Is it better that consumers
buy a Honda plug-in hybrid or a ICE vehicle? If you want to charge it
mostly with AC, go ahead. If the car is dead and you need to go on
a trip right now, you can. Sounds great to me. Besides, Honda,
unlike radicals, has to actually sell them.

Q: What about full-electric vehicles?

A: Are there really customers who truly want them? I’m not so sure because there are lots of issues regarding infrastructure and hardware. I do not believe there will be a dramatic increase in demand for battery vehicles, and I believe this situation is true globally. There are different regulations in different countries, and we have to abide by them. So it’s a must to continue R&D. But I don’t believe it will become mainstream anytime soon.

Now he doubles down and ignores the rapid increase in fully electric vehicles. Tesla continues to geometrically increase production of BEVs in the US as they start production in China and begin construction on a facility in Germany as other EV companies expand as well. He also talks about the issues of "infrastructure" as if that were somehow an insurmountable problem going forward. I guess if you do nothing about a problem, then it is indeed insurmountable.

I'm wondering where Honda will be in 5 and 10 years time?

Still building cars, that's where.

And mostly electric cars, like everybody else.

There's some irony here. I have trouble tracking the minimal efforts put out by the various vendors, but it seems Honda themselves built 300 of the Honda EV Plus with a 80 to 100 mile range, pretty good for driving locally. That could have become the basis for the Corolla killer if they had stuck with it.

No, it is pretty clear that both for environmental reasons and marketing reasons, hybrids are not the way forward. It's amazing the CEO of a major auto company can't see that.

It's amazing that zealots like you are zealots and can't accept
real progress that is reducing emissions.

Real progress is good, but it needs to take us to zero emissions, and the sooner the better. Australia's bush-fires make the point that even the global warming we've had so far is creating very real problems, and we need to stop the warming as fast as we can.

No, it's not that lots of things can help, leave people and companies free to choose what fits their needs. No, it's the old my way or the highway.

One of the side effects of the bushfires currently burning in eastern Australia is that a lot of highways have been temporarily blocked.

People can burnt to death by driving through a bushfire as it crosses a road.

It nearly happened to me back in 1968 - I drove through bushfire smoke, and fifteen minutes later people who thought that that was what they were doing ended up in flames and dead.

Your way has more risks than you seem to realise.

The people I know under 30 for the most part aren't planning on working
hard for 20 years to save up for a luxury Tesla electric car and their
opinion of Elon Musk tends to be highly negative.

what they seem to be planning is the overthrow of the government, the
mass execution or imprisonment of the heads of Facebook, Google, Tesla,
the auto and petroleum industry, and the Wall Street financial industry,
and the immediate halt to production of ICE cars by fiat.

Why drag the process out over 30 years of incremental innovations and
improvements/adaptations and lose the fight anyway when ideally you
could get the result you want in a few weeks.

 

[Rick C]

On Tuesday, January 7, 2020 at 6:00:21 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:

https://grist.org/article/u-s-military-emits-more-co2-than-most-countries/

But Joe Sixpack not going full-electric immediately is like, "morally
wrong", or something.

No one said "immediately". It will take time for sure. Lots of design work to do, lots of factories to convert. Lots of research to improve batteries. But it is all within grasp at this point. In fact, like a locomotive rolling downhill, very, very hard to even slow down.

Hell, even GM is partnering with Bechtel to design and construct a charging network.

I saw an article that said NJ is passing legislation to construct a charging network along highways with stations 25 miles apart. That is the sort of presence that is needed to make the average joe/jane believe EVs are real.

Oh yeah, I would also note that I don't actually recommend that people buy EVs today. I think for the average joe/jane they would do better to wait a few more years for EVs to become more mainstream. I think at that point there will be better choices for cars (or at least more good choices) and they will be more integrated/common so there will be more facilities. But if someone wants to take the leap, it's not like it's a stupid idea.

--

Rick C.

+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Tuesday, January 7, 2020 at 6:49:42 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:

On 1/7/20 6:11 PM, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 6:05:22 AM UTC+11, Whoey Louie wrote:
On Tuesday, January 7, 2020 at 11:02:03 AM UTC-5, Rick C wrote:
Q (ANE): Honda wants two-thirds of its global sales to come from electrified vehicles by 2030. What is your road to electrification when demand for hybrids and EVs is still undeveloped?

A (Hachiago ): I believe hybrid vehicles will play a critical role. The objective is not electrification, per se, but improving fuel efficiency. And we believe hybrid vehicles are the way to abide by different environmental regulations.

So the head of Honda doesn't get it. Getting better fuel economy isn't the goal at all. Eliminating carbon emissions is the goal. Hybrids are inherently flawed in that for most people they still require burning of fossil fuel. If not, why have the gasoline motor at all?


I say he gets it. Better fuel economy does directly reduce carbon
emissions. Are you so radical that even a small, limited use gas
engine is unacceptable?

The problem is that we have to reduce carbon emissions fast, and to a rather low level - about half a ton of CO2 per person per year.

A hybrid is a step in the right direction, but doesn't take us as far as we have to go.

A small, gas engine that makes the car actually
PRACTICAL, so that more people will buy it? Is it better that consumers
buy a Honda plug-in hybrid or a ICE vehicle? If you want to charge it
mostly with AC, go ahead. If the car is dead and you need to go on
a trip right now, you can. Sounds great to me. Besides, Honda,
unlike radicals, has to actually sell them.

Q: What about full-electric vehicles?

A: Are there really customers who truly want them? I’m not so sure because there are lots of issues regarding infrastructure and hardware. I do not believe there will be a dramatic increase in demand for battery vehicles, and I believe this situation is true globally. There are different regulations in different countries, and we have to abide by them. So it’s a must to continue R&D. But I don’t believe it will become mainstream anytime soon.

Now he doubles down and ignores the rapid increase in fully electric vehicles. Tesla continues to geometrically increase production of BEVs in the US as they start production in China and begin construction on a facility in Germany as other EV companies expand as well. He also talks about the issues of "infrastructure" as if that were somehow an insurmountable problem going forward. I guess if you do nothing about a problem, then it is indeed insurmountable.

I'm wondering where Honda will be in 5 and 10 years time?

Still building cars, that's where.

And mostly electric cars, like everybody else.

There's some irony here. I have trouble tracking the minimal efforts put out by the various vendors, but it seems Honda themselves built 300 of the Honda EV Plus with a 80 to 100 mile range, pretty good for driving locally. That could have become the basis for the Corolla killer if they had stuck with it.

No, it is pretty clear that both for environmental reasons and marketing reasons, hybrids are not the way forward. It's amazing the CEO of a major auto company can't see that.

It's amazing that zealots like you are zealots and can't accept
real progress that is reducing emissions.

Real progress is good, but it needs to take us to zero emissions, and the sooner the better. Australia's bush-fires make the point that even the global warming we've had so far is creating very real problems, and we need to stop the warming as fast as we can.

No, it's not that lots of things can help, leave people and companies free to choose what fits their needs. No, it's the old my way or the highway.

One of the side effects of the bushfires currently burning in eastern Australia is that a lot of highways have been temporarily blocked.

People can burnt to death by driving through a bushfire as it crosses a road.

It nearly happened to me back in 1968 - I drove through bushfire smoke, and fifteen minutes later people who thought that that was what they were doing ended up in flames and dead.

Your way has more risks than you seem to realise.


The people I know under 30 for the most part aren't planning on working
hard for 20 years to save up for a luxury Tesla electric car and their
opinion of Elon Musk tends to be highly negative.

what they seem to be planning is the overthrow of the government, the
mass execution or imprisonment of the heads of Facebook, Google, Tesla,
the auto and petroleum industry, and the Wall Street financial industry,
and the immediate halt to production of ICE cars by fiat.

Why drag the process out over 30 years of incremental innovations and
improvements/adaptations and lose the fight anyway when ideally you
could get the result you want in a few weeks.

I think all that says a lot more about you and the people you know than it does Facebook, Google, Tesla or anyone in this group.

I would also point out that what you wrote here sounds a bit like you have been smoking something stronger than your usual weed. You should avoid the stuff with the extra kick.

--

Rick C.

++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[bitrex]

On 1/7/20 6:54 PM, Rick C wrote:

On Tuesday, January 7, 2020 at 6:00:21 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:

https://grist.org/article/u-s-military-emits-more-co2-than-most-countries/

But Joe Sixpack not going full-electric immediately is like, "morally
wrong", or something.

No one said "immediately". It will take time for sure. Lots of design work to do, lots of factories to convert. Lots of research to improve batteries. But it is all within grasp at this point. In fact, like a locomotive rolling downhill, very, very hard to even slow down.

Hell, even GM is partnering with Bechtel to design and construct a charging network.

I saw an article that said NJ is passing legislation to construct a charging network along highways with stations 25 miles apart. That is the sort of presence that is needed to make the average joe/jane believe EVs are real.

Oh yeah, I would also note that I don't actually recommend that people buy EVs today. I think for the average joe/jane they would do better to wait a few more years for EVs to become more mainstream. I think at that point there will be better choices for cars (or at least more good choices) and they will be more integrated/common so there will be more facilities. But if someone wants to take the leap, it's not like it's a stupid idea.

Incidentally my software-industry contact in the Middle East claims US
strike aircraft from the UAE are inbound to Iran at this time.

Well I may be glad I've got one at the moment, such as it is

 

> I saw an article that said NJ is passing legislation to construct a charging network along highways with stations 25 miles apart. That is the sort of presence that is needed to make the average joe/jane believe EVs are real.

Yes, absolutely necessary, and no more stinking big mobile T-bombs. Vote for me, i'll push it in California.

 

[bitrex]

On 1/7/20 7:22 PM, Rick C wrote:

On Tuesday, January 7, 2020 at 6:49:42 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
On 1/7/20 6:11 PM, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 6:05:22 AM UTC+11, Whoey Louie wrote:
On Tuesday, January 7, 2020 at 11:02:03 AM UTC-5, Rick C wrote:
Q (ANE): Honda wants two-thirds of its global sales to come from electrified vehicles by 2030. What is your road to electrification when demand for hybrids and EVs is still undeveloped?

A (Hachiago ): I believe hybrid vehicles will play a critical role. The objective is not electrification, per se, but improving fuel efficiency. And we believe hybrid vehicles are the way to abide by different environmental regulations.

So the head of Honda doesn't get it. Getting better fuel economy isn't the goal at all. Eliminating carbon emissions is the goal. Hybrids are inherently flawed in that for most people they still require burning of fossil fuel. If not, why have the gasoline motor at all?


I say he gets it. Better fuel economy does directly reduce carbon
emissions. Are you so radical that even a small, limited use gas
engine is unacceptable?

The problem is that we have to reduce carbon emissions fast, and to a rather low level - about half a ton of CO2 per person per year.

A hybrid is a step in the right direction, but doesn't take us as far as we have to go.

A small, gas engine that makes the car actually
PRACTICAL, so that more people will buy it? Is it better that consumers
buy a Honda plug-in hybrid or a ICE vehicle? If you want to charge it
mostly with AC, go ahead. If the car is dead and you need to go on
a trip right now, you can. Sounds great to me. Besides, Honda,
unlike radicals, has to actually sell them.

Q: What about full-electric vehicles?

A: Are there really customers who truly want them? I’m not so sure because there are lots of issues regarding infrastructure and hardware. I do not believe there will be a dramatic increase in demand for battery vehicles, and I believe this situation is true globally. There are different regulations in different countries, and we have to abide by them. So it’s a must to continue R&D. But I don’t believe it will become mainstream anytime soon.

Now he doubles down and ignores the rapid increase in fully electric vehicles. Tesla continues to geometrically increase production of BEVs in the US as they start production in China and begin construction on a facility in Germany as other EV companies expand as well. He also talks about the issues of "infrastructure" as if that were somehow an insurmountable problem going forward. I guess if you do nothing about a problem, then it is indeed insurmountable.

I'm wondering where Honda will be in 5 and 10 years time?

Still building cars, that's where.

And mostly electric cars, like everybody else.

There's some irony here. I have trouble tracking the minimal efforts put out by the various vendors, but it seems Honda themselves built 300 of the Honda EV Plus with a 80 to 100 mile range, pretty good for driving locally. That could have become the basis for the Corolla killer if they had stuck with it.

No, it is pretty clear that both for environmental reasons and marketing reasons, hybrids are not the way forward. It's amazing the CEO of a major auto company can't see that.

It's amazing that zealots like you are zealots and can't accept
real progress that is reducing emissions.

Real progress is good, but it needs to take us to zero emissions, and the sooner the better. Australia's bush-fires make the point that even the global warming we've had so far is creating very real problems, and we need to stop the warming as fast as we can.

No, it's not that lots of things can help, leave people and companies free to choose what fits their needs. No, it's the old my way or the highway.

One of the side effects of the bushfires currently burning in eastern Australia is that a lot of highways have been temporarily blocked.

People can burnt to death by driving through a bushfire as it crosses a road.

It nearly happened to me back in 1968 - I drove through bushfire smoke, and fifteen minutes later people who thought that that was what they were doing ended up in flames and dead.

Your way has more risks than you seem to realise.


The people I know under 30 for the most part aren't planning on working
hard for 20 years to save up for a luxury Tesla electric car and their
opinion of Elon Musk tends to be highly negative.

what they seem to be planning is the overthrow of the government, the
mass execution or imprisonment of the heads of Facebook, Google, Tesla,
the auto and petroleum industry, and the Wall Street financial industry,
and the immediate halt to production of ICE cars by fiat.

Why drag the process out over 30 years of incremental innovations and
improvements/adaptations and lose the fight anyway when ideally you
could get the result you want in a few weeks.

I think all that says a lot more about you and the people you know than it does Facebook, Google, Tesla or anyone in this group.

I would also point out that what you wrote here sounds a bit like you have been smoking something stronger than your usual weed. You should avoid the stuff with the extra kick.

Well I didn't give them any of it they must be getting their own. Real
Communists tend to make more interesting discussion partners than the
usual broken-records repeating tired Ayn Randian platitudes you find
around here. Yeah they'll probably get me too by association but at
least I'll die laughing.

 

Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in news:qv2vvi$1h5a$1
@gioia.aioe.org:

On 2020-01-07 23:08, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org
wrote:
[...]

I have always thought that leaf blowers are lame. We have
enough
dust and don't need to be kicking up even more on a daily basis.


Agree! Moreover, around here these things use noisy stinking
two-stroke engines. Disgusting!

Jeroen Belleman

Huge waste of hundreds (thousands?) of gallons of fuel a day.

The dust thing is also a problem. That could be where the thing
that kills us all is lying around waiting to be stirred up, or a
morph of an existing thing. Humans do some really stupid things in
the name of convenience or comfort. I have no problem with that
unless it affects me or other people OR critters negatively. Cannot
buy or *have* comfort if it involves harm of others, and ignoring it
(the things our brain tells us) should be a lake of fire level
offense.