OT: China Cuts E-vehicle Subsidies

[Winfield Hill]

"As of June, the Chinese state subsidy for an electric car,
now worth $9,830, will be cut to around $4,100. To qualify
for any subsidy at all an electric vehicle must now have a
specified range of at least 250 miles. Over the next three
months they will also abolish local government subsidies
and channel these funds into improving the country's
charge-station infrastructure."

China has been accounting for about half the e-Car sales.


--
Thanks,
- Win

 

[bitrex]

On 4/19/19 10:32 AM, bitrex wrote:

On 4/19/19 10:12 AM, Winfield Hill wrote:
  "As of June, the Chinese state subsidy for an electric car,
  now worth $9,830, will be cut to around $4,100.  To qualify
  for any subsidy at all an electric vehicle must now have a
  specified range of at least 250 miles.  Over the next three
  months they will also abolish local government subsidies
  and channel these funds into improving the country's
  charge-station infrastructure."

  China has been accounting for about half the e-Car sales.



One thing is they know is Tesla and GM have high hopes for China and
sell a lot of EV product there, but those are still American companies
and there's a trade war going on.

The 250 mile range restriction handily excludes both the current
incarnation of the Model 3 standard range and the Chevy Bolt. the Nissan
Leaf is getting a range update for 2019 tho it'll probably qualify.

 

[bitrex]

On 4/19/19 10:12 AM, Winfield Hill wrote:

"As of June, the Chinese state subsidy for an electric car,
now worth $9,830, will be cut to around $4,100. To qualify
for any subsidy at all an electric vehicle must now have a
specified range of at least 250 miles. Over the next three
months they will also abolish local government subsidies
and channel these funds into improving the country's
charge-station infrastructure."

China has been accounting for about half the e-Car sales.

One thing is they know is Tesla and GM have high hopes for China and
sell a lot of EV product there, but those are still American companies
and there's a trade war going on.

 

On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 10:32:31 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

On 4/19/19 10:12 AM, Winfield Hill wrote:
"As of June, the Chinese state subsidy for an electric car,
now worth $9,830, will be cut to around $4,100. To qualify
for any subsidy at all an electric vehicle must now have a
specified range of at least 250 miles. Over the next three
months they will also abolish local government subsidies
and channel these funds into improving the country's
charge-station infrastructure."

China has been accounting for about half the e-Car sales.



One thing is they know is Tesla and GM have high hopes for China and
sell a lot of EV product there, but those are still American companies
and there's a trade war going on.

Trade war? Dear Leader says tariffs are good and trade wars are easy to win.
He must have won by now and all the corn and soybeans piling up are just
fake news.

 

[bitrex]

On 4/19/19 11:21 AM, gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote:

On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 10:36:58 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 4/19/19 10:32 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 4/19/19 10:12 AM, Winfield Hill wrote:
  "As of June, the Chinese state subsidy for an electric car,
  now worth $9,830, will be cut to around $4,100.  To qualify
  for any subsidy at all an electric vehicle must now have a
  specified range of at least 250 miles.  Over the next three
  months they will also abolish local government subsidies
  and channel these funds into improving the country's
  charge-station infrastructure."

  China has been accounting for about half the e-Car sales.



One thing is they know is Tesla and GM have high hopes for China and
sell a lot of EV product there, but those are still American companies
and there's a trade war going on.

The 250 mile range restriction handily excludes both the current
incarnation of the Model 3 standard range and the Chevy Bolt. the Nissan
Leaf is getting a range update for 2019 tho it'll probably qualify.

How does that exclude the Bolt?

2019 Chevrolet Bolt EV
Compact car
5/5Car and Driver
8.3/10US News & World Report
7.9/10Edmunds
Range: 238 mi battery-only

I've never heard anything about the Bolt getting more range. In fact, I'm a bit surprised they are canceling the Volt and keeping the Bolt with the very low profile they give the Bolt.

Only one GM sales rep I talked with at a dealer out of like, 7, could
tell me anything about the Volt or Bolt that was accurate or seemed to
have done any research on the cars and tried to personally push them. He
was an older guy in his early 60s, older compared to most car salesmen
at least.

Last I heard he made a ton of commission selling Bolts to early-adopters
when it first was released; that dealership got some of the first
shipments and a bunch of tech geeks and bleeding-edgers flew in to grab
them, and he retired early.

 

[bitrex]

On 4/19/19 11:21 AM, gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote:

On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 10:36:58 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 4/19/19 10:32 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 4/19/19 10:12 AM, Winfield Hill wrote:
  "As of June, the Chinese state subsidy for an electric car,
  now worth $9,830, will be cut to around $4,100.  To qualify
  for any subsidy at all an electric vehicle must now have a
  specified range of at least 250 miles.  Over the next three
  months they will also abolish local government subsidies
  and channel these funds into improving the country's
  charge-station infrastructure."

  China has been accounting for about half the e-Car sales.



One thing is they know is Tesla and GM have high hopes for China and
sell a lot of EV product there, but those are still American companies
and there's a trade war going on.

The 250 mile range restriction handily excludes both the current
incarnation of the Model 3 standard range and the Chevy Bolt. the Nissan
Leaf is getting a range update for 2019 tho it'll probably qualify.

How does that exclude the Bolt?

2019 Chevrolet Bolt EV
Compact car
5/5Car and Driver
8.3/10US News & World Report
7.9/10Edmunds
Range: 238 mi battery-only

I've never heard anything about the Bolt getting more range. In fact, I'm a bit surprised they are canceling the Volt and keeping the Bolt with the very low profile they give the Bolt.

that's what I mean the Bolt doesn't meet the 250 mile range specification.

The Bolt will always be a slow seller in the US to individuals but the
fleet vehicle potential is huge. That's what their lil "New Roads"
magazine that I get a complimentary copy of each month has it on their
cover as, as an economical and reliable fleet vehicle for small
businesses and livery and law enforcement and stuff like that. Also it's
big in Asia particularly like South Korea.

As a sedan/hatchback Volt doesn't have much potential in the fleet role.
They didn't keep it cuz they're pretty sure with the base 3 available
now for 35k which is what a budget-trimline Volt with a couple options
costs without the rebate, people will go for the 3 and they're probably
right, they sold 300k Volts prolly everyone who really wanted one has
one by now.

They could have sold 600k if they'd pushed it hard back in say,
2013-2016 but GM sucks at marketing it's been that way for a long time.
and I think there are or were factions in GM corporate who didn't want
it to sell and undercut their other models.

The drive-away cap cost with factoring in the tax incentive on my 2017
was $26k, why in the world would I look at other GM sedan-stuff like the
Malibu or Impala in that range when the base-trim Volt at that price is
just a superior car in every way

 

On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 10:39:25 AM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:

On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 10:32:31 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 4/19/19 10:12 AM, Winfield Hill wrote:
"As of June, the Chinese state subsidy for an electric car,
now worth $9,830, will be cut to around $4,100. To qualify
for any subsidy at all an electric vehicle must now have a
specified range of at least 250 miles. Over the next three
months they will also abolish local government subsidies
and channel these funds into improving the country's
charge-station infrastructure."

China has been accounting for about half the e-Car sales.



One thing is they know is Tesla and GM have high hopes for China and
sell a lot of EV product there, but those are still American companies
and there's a trade war going on.

Trade war? Dear Leader says tariffs are good and trade wars are easy to win.
He must have won by now and all the corn and soybeans piling up are just
fake news.

What many people don't get is that in many ways, trade is a zero sum game. China puts tarrifs on our soybeans so they buy them "somewhere else". But "somewhere else" now isn't selling to "somebody else" who now needs soybeans. So we sell to "somebody else" instead of the Chinese.

Largely zero sum when it comes to who you choose to dance with. Crop fluctuations and demand changes are what make it not zero sum.

--

Rick C.

- Get a 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 10:36:58 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

On 4/19/19 10:32 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 4/19/19 10:12 AM, Winfield Hill wrote:
  "As of June, the Chinese state subsidy for an electric car,
  now worth $9,830, will be cut to around $4,100.  To qualify
  for any subsidy at all an electric vehicle must now have a
  specified range of at least 250 miles.  Over the next three
  months they will also abolish local government subsidies
  and channel these funds into improving the country's
  charge-station infrastructure."

  China has been accounting for about half the e-Car sales.



One thing is they know is Tesla and GM have high hopes for China and
sell a lot of EV product there, but those are still American companies
and there's a trade war going on.

The 250 mile range restriction handily excludes both the current
incarnation of the Model 3 standard range and the Chevy Bolt. the Nissan
Leaf is getting a range update for 2019 tho it'll probably qualify.

How does that exclude the Bolt?

2019 Chevrolet Bolt EV
Compact car
5/5Car and Driver
8.3/10US News & World Report
7.9/10Edmunds
Range: 238 mi battery-only

I've never heard anything about the Bolt getting more range. In fact, I'm a bit surprised they are canceling the Volt and keeping the Bolt with the very low profile they give the Bolt.

--

Rick C.

- Get a 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[bitrex]

On 4/19/19 10:39 AM, trader4@optonline.net wrote:

On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 10:32:31 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 4/19/19 10:12 AM, Winfield Hill wrote:
"As of June, the Chinese state subsidy for an electric car,
now worth $9,830, will be cut to around $4,100. To qualify
for any subsidy at all an electric vehicle must now have a
specified range of at least 250 miles. Over the next three
months they will also abolish local government subsidies
and channel these funds into improving the country's
charge-station infrastructure."

China has been accounting for about half the e-Car sales.



One thing is they know is Tesla and GM have high hopes for China and
sell a lot of EV product there, but those are still American companies
and there's a trade war going on.

Trade war? Dear Leader says tariffs are good and trade wars are easy to win.
He must have won by now and all the corn and soybeans piling up are just
fake news.

They don't wanna use state money to fund purchases of the el cheapo
foreign made EVs to the masses and send that money to the US who in a
surprising temporary reversal of fortune does a certain class of el
cheapo product better than they do. From a certain perspective it's
understandable I guess, yeah people grumped about the US EV tax
breaks/subsidies to consumers but they did by-and-large go to purchases
of American-made products, foreign made EVs were a small fraction it
mostly went to Tesla and GM.

The China subsidies will remain in place for the big-time models to keep
the fat cats and Party upper ranks happy but the proletariat will have
to wait.

Don't know about Tesla but a number of GM electric drive patents will
expire in a couple years I believe I wouldn't be surprised to see
China-clones of some of those products not too long.

 

On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 11:45:27 AM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:

gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote...

What many people don't get is that in many ways, trade
is a zero sum game. China puts tarrifs on our soybeans
so they buy them "somewhere else". But "somewhere else"
now isn't selling to "somebody else" who now needs soybeans.
So we sell to "somebody else" instead of the Chinese.

Apparently not. Otherwise, why are farmer getting such
low prices, and why are storage facilities overflowing?
Farmers in other countries can increase their crop sizes.
And these lost sales may not return, after the war, if
China finds they like the alternate suppliers.


--
Thanks,
- Win

+1

Absolutely correct. What business wants to see their customers turn to
another vendor? And then hope that someday they come back? How will
you lure them back? Lower prices?

Also, if things are going so great with regard to exports, why did Trump
hand out $8 bil in welfare to farmers in direct response to his trade
war? I mean, even Trump said so. And the deficit with China just had
it's worse month ever.

 

On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 11:25:13 AM UTC-4, gnuarm.de...@gmail.com wrote:

On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 10:39:25 AM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:
On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 10:32:31 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 4/19/19 10:12 AM, Winfield Hill wrote:
"As of June, the Chinese state subsidy for an electric car,
now worth $9,830, will be cut to around $4,100. To qualify
for any subsidy at all an electric vehicle must now have a
specified range of at least 250 miles. Over the next three
months they will also abolish local government subsidies
and channel these funds into improving the country's
charge-station infrastructure."

China has been accounting for about half the e-Car sales.



One thing is they know is Tesla and GM have high hopes for China and
sell a lot of EV product there, but those are still American companies
and there's a trade war going on.

Trade war? Dear Leader says tariffs are good and trade wars are easy to win.
He must have won by now and all the corn and soybeans piling up are just
fake news.

What many people don't get is that in many ways, trade is a zero sum game.

They don't "get it", because it's not true and never has been.
But Trump and the trumptards believe it.




China puts tarrifs on our soybeans so they buy them "somewhere else". But "somewhere else" now isn't selling to "somebody else" who now needs soybeans. So we sell to "somebody else" instead of the Chinese.

Obviously that's BS, because the beans are piling up here. Are you not
aware that Trump handed out $8 bil in welfare to farmers because of this,
the consequences of his tariffs? And note that once customers turn to
new sources, they may never come back. Is that the new "conservatism"?
Putting farmers on welfare? How does unsold beans sitting in the Midwest
reduce our trade deficits? Obviously it doesn't because we're setting
record trade deficits.

Largely zero sum when it comes to who you choose to dance with. Crop fluctuations and demand changes are what make it not zero sum.

--

Rick C.

- Get a 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Winfield Hill]

gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote...

What many people don't get is that in many ways, trade
is a zero sum game. China puts tarrifs on our soybeans
so they buy them "somewhere else". But "somewhere else"
now isn't selling to "somebody else" who now needs soybeans.
So we sell to "somebody else" instead of the Chinese.

Apparently not. Otherwise, why are farmer getting such
low prices, and why are storage facilities overflowing?
Farmers in other countries can increase their crop sizes.
And these lost sales may not return, after the war, if
China finds they like the alternate suppliers.


--
Thanks,
- Win

 

On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 11:38:08 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

On 4/19/19 11:21 AM, gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 10:36:58 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 4/19/19 10:32 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 4/19/19 10:12 AM, Winfield Hill wrote:
  "As of June, the Chinese state subsidy for an electric car,
  now worth $9,830, will be cut to around $4,100.  To qualify
  for any subsidy at all an electric vehicle must now have a
  specified range of at least 250 miles.  Over the next three
  months they will also abolish local government subsidies
  and channel these funds into improving the country's
  charge-station infrastructure."

  China has been accounting for about half the e-Car sales.



One thing is they know is Tesla and GM have high hopes for China and
sell a lot of EV product there, but those are still American companies
and there's a trade war going on.

The 250 mile range restriction handily excludes both the current
incarnation of the Model 3 standard range and the Chevy Bolt. the Nissan
Leaf is getting a range update for 2019 tho it'll probably qualify.

How does that exclude the Bolt?

2019 Chevrolet Bolt EV
Compact car
5/5Car and Driver
8.3/10US News & World Report
7.9/10Edmunds
Range: 238 mi battery-only

I've never heard anything about the Bolt getting more range. In fact, I'm a bit surprised they are canceling the Volt and keeping the Bolt with the very low profile they give the Bolt.


that's what I mean the Bolt doesn't meet the 250 mile range specification..

Sorry, you wrote correctly, but I didn't read correctly. Yes, the standard range model 3 will also not count. But they have the Standard Range Plus: 240mi and the Mid Range: 264mi. I read they added 15 mile to the long range battery with a software upgrade. If that apply the same improvement to the SR+ it may reach the 250 mile threshold.

The Bolt will always be a slow seller in the US to individuals but the
fleet vehicle potential is huge. That's what their lil "New Roads"
magazine that I get a complimentary copy of each month has it on their
cover as, as an economical and reliable fleet vehicle for small
businesses and livery and law enforcement and stuff like that. Also it's
big in Asia particularly like South Korea.

Of course it isn't selling. GM is not promoting it at all. "Fleet sales" won't mean diddly if they continue to make such small quantities, even if they can double the sales they won't begin to touch the model 3 sales numbers. Any other vehicle would have been dropped like a hot potato at GM. It would appear GM just wants a placeholder until they can produce a more competitive EV lineup.

As a sedan/hatchback Volt doesn't have much potential in the fleet role.
They didn't keep it cuz they're pretty sure with the base 3 available
now for 35k which is what a budget-trimline Volt with a couple options
costs without the rebate, people will go for the 3 and they're probably
right, they sold 300k Volts prolly everyone who really wanted one has
one by now.

They are dropping the Volt because they aren't interested in hybrids. Even though hybrids are useful vehicles, they are jumping on the BEV bandwagon I assume because they understand that will become the hot market in the near future.

They could have sold 600k if they'd pushed it hard back in say,
2013-2016 but GM sucks at marketing it's been that way for a long time.
and I think there are or were factions in GM corporate who didn't want
it to sell and undercut their other models.

That's pretty much nonsense with no basis.

The drive-away cap cost with factoring in the tax incentive on my 2017
was $26k, why in the world would I look at other GM sedan-stuff like the
Malibu or Impala in that range when the base-trim Volt at that price is
just a superior car in every way

You are still so in love with your Volt, but it isn't popular with the mass market. But then the real mass market isn't in love with BEVs as yet either. The tide is turning, it just takes more than a handful of models to really catch the attention of the car buying public. As more chargers are installed and become more visible, people will get more curious, especially if they see cars charging at them. I get lots of questions when I'm charging. People are still learning and it will take some time.

--

Rick C.

+ Get a 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[bitrex]

On 4/19/19 1:28 PM, bitrex wrote:

Anyone in charge of a country should have had analyses prepared on how
a trade war might unfold.  It could have foretold that soybean
purchasing was going to drop no matter what was done.  Do you think
Trump consulted advisors on likely outcomes BEFORE he decided to duke
it out with the Chinese?  Why not start with a trade war with Ethiopia
to test out your weapons?


No, being the narcissist that he is Trump believes he was fated by
divide providence to be President and as such he doesn't need to consult
on stuff like that, advisers just tell you shit you don't want to hear
and what's the good in that? what a bunch of haters.

Just do it and fate will make it work out

And if doesn't just say it did

 

[bitrex]

On 4/19/19 1:06 PM, gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote:

Obviously that's BS, because the beans are piling up here. Are you not
aware that Trump handed out $8 bil in welfare to farmers because of this,
the consequences of his tariffs? And note that once customers turn to
new sources, they may never come back. Is that the new "conservatism"?
Putting farmers on welfare? How does unsold beans sitting in the Midwest
reduce our trade deficits? Obviously it doesn't because we're setting
record trade deficits.

You point to correlations as if they were causality. They are not the same thing. China is not buying as many soybeans as they used to. They are smart enough to not point that out, rather use the lower soybean purchasing numbers as bargaining levers even if the numbers won't return to former levels after the trade conflict is resolved.

Anyone in charge of a country should have had analyses prepared on how a trade war might unfold. It could have foretold that soybean purchasing was going to drop no matter what was done. Do you think Trump consulted advisors on likely outcomes BEFORE he decided to duke it out with the Chinese? Why not start with a trade war with Ethiopia to test out your weapons?

No, being the narcissist that he is Trump believes he was fated by
divide providence to be President and as such he doesn't need to consult
on stuff like that, advisers just tell you shit you don't want to hear
and what's the good in that? what a bunch of haters.

Just do it and fate will make it work out

 

[bitrex]

On 4/19/19 1:15 PM, bitrex wrote:

On 4/19/19 12:46 PM, gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 11:38:08 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 4/19/19 11:21 AM, gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 10:36:58 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 4/19/19 10:32 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 4/19/19 10:12 AM, Winfield Hill wrote:
    "As of June, the Chinese state subsidy for an electric car,
    now worth $9,830, will be cut to around $4,100.  To qualify
    for any subsidy at all an electric vehicle must now have a
    specified range of at least 250 miles.  Over the next three
    months they will also abolish local government subsidies
    and channel these funds into improving the country's
    charge-station infrastructure."

    China has been accounting for about half the e-Car sales.



One thing is they know is Tesla and GM have high hopes for China and
sell a lot of EV product there, but those are still American
companies
and there's a trade war going on.

The 250 mile range restriction handily excludes both the current
incarnation of the Model 3 standard range and the Chevy Bolt. the
Nissan
Leaf is getting a range update for 2019 tho it'll probably qualify.

How does that exclude the Bolt?

2019 Chevrolet Bolt EV
Compact car
5/5Car and Driver
8.3/10US News & World Report
7.9/10Edmunds
Range: 238 mi battery-only

I've never heard anything about the Bolt getting more range. In
fact, I'm a bit surprised they are canceling the Volt and keeping
the Bolt with the very low profile they give the Bolt.


that's what I mean the Bolt doesn't meet the 250 mile range
specification.

Sorry, you wrote correctly, but I didn't read correctly.  Yes, the
standard range model 3 will also not count.  But they have the
Standard Range Plus: 240mi and the Mid Range: 264mi.  I read they
added 15 mile to the long range battery with a software upgrade.  If
that apply the same improvement to the SR+ it may reach the 250 mile
threshold.


The Bolt will always be a slow seller in the US to individuals but the
fleet vehicle potential is huge. That's what their lil "New Roads"
magazine that I get a complimentary copy of each month has it on their
cover as, as an economical and reliable fleet vehicle for small
businesses and livery and law enforcement and stuff like that. Also it's
big in Asia particularly like South Korea.

Of course it isn't selling.  GM is not promoting it at all.  "Fleet
sales" won't mean diddly if they continue to make such small
quantities, even if they can double the sales they won't begin to
touch the model 3 sales numbers.  Any other vehicle would have been
dropped like a hot potato at GM.  It would appear GM just wants a
placeholder until they can produce a more competitive EV lineup.

It wouldn't help to promote it now there are too many better competitor
options, it needed to happen five years ago! It's an old design you
wouldn't build an EV or plug-in hybrid in 2019 the way the Volt is
built, with the battery pack down the centerline compromising interior
space, for example.

The drivetrain is pretty innovative but a lot of the rest of it is old
school EV-1-derived tech.

Oops got confused as to what vehicle u were talking about may bad.

I still don't see many Model 3s on the road around here yet, the most
common plug-in I see is the Leaf, probably.

 

[bitrex]

On 4/19/19 12:46 PM, gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote:

On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 11:38:08 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 4/19/19 11:21 AM, gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 10:36:58 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 4/19/19 10:32 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 4/19/19 10:12 AM, Winfield Hill wrote:
  "As of June, the Chinese state subsidy for an electric car,
  now worth $9,830, will be cut to around $4,100.  To qualify
  for any subsidy at all an electric vehicle must now have a
  specified range of at least 250 miles.  Over the next three
  months they will also abolish local government subsidies
  and channel these funds into improving the country's
  charge-station infrastructure."

  China has been accounting for about half the e-Car sales.



One thing is they know is Tesla and GM have high hopes for China and
sell a lot of EV product there, but those are still American companies
and there's a trade war going on.

The 250 mile range restriction handily excludes both the current
incarnation of the Model 3 standard range and the Chevy Bolt. the Nissan
Leaf is getting a range update for 2019 tho it'll probably qualify.

How does that exclude the Bolt?

2019 Chevrolet Bolt EV
Compact car
5/5Car and Driver
8.3/10US News & World Report
7.9/10Edmunds
Range: 238 mi battery-only

I've never heard anything about the Bolt getting more range. In fact, I'm a bit surprised they are canceling the Volt and keeping the Bolt with the very low profile they give the Bolt.


that's what I mean the Bolt doesn't meet the 250 mile range specification.

Sorry, you wrote correctly, but I didn't read correctly. Yes, the standard range model 3 will also not count. But they have the Standard Range Plus: 240mi and the Mid Range: 264mi. I read they added 15 mile to the long range battery with a software upgrade. If that apply the same improvement to the SR+ it may reach the 250 mile threshold.


The Bolt will always be a slow seller in the US to individuals but the
fleet vehicle potential is huge. That's what their lil "New Roads"
magazine that I get a complimentary copy of each month has it on their
cover as, as an economical and reliable fleet vehicle for small
businesses and livery and law enforcement and stuff like that. Also it's
big in Asia particularly like South Korea.

Of course it isn't selling. GM is not promoting it at all. "Fleet sales" won't mean diddly if they continue to make such small quantities, even if they can double the sales they won't begin to touch the model 3 sales numbers. Any other vehicle would have been dropped like a hot potato at GM. It would appear GM just wants a placeholder until they can produce a more competitive EV lineup.

It wouldn't help to promote it now there are too many better competitor
options, it needed to happen five years ago! It's an old design you
wouldn't build an EV or plug-in hybrid in 2019 the way the Volt is
built, with the battery pack down the centerline compromising interior
space, for example.

The drivetrain is pretty innovative but a lot of the rest of it is old
school EV-1-derived tech.

As a sedan/hatchback Volt doesn't have much potential in the fleet role.
They didn't keep it cuz they're pretty sure with the base 3 available
now for 35k which is what a budget-trimline Volt with a couple options
costs without the rebate, people will go for the 3 and they're probably
right, they sold 300k Volts prolly everyone who really wanted one has
one by now.

They are dropping the Volt because they aren't interested in hybrids. Even though hybrids are useful vehicles, they are jumping on the BEV bandwagon I assume because they understand that will become the hot market in the near future.

There isn't much interest in compact sedans, period.

They could have sold 600k if they'd pushed it hard back in say,
2013-2016 but GM sucks at marketing it's been that way for a long time.
and I think there are or were factions in GM corporate who didn't want
it to sell and undercut their other models.

That's pretty much nonsense with no basis.

Common knowledge among owners clubs/gm-volt forum it's no secret they
treated the car like a red-headed step child and didn't really try to
sell it hard.

The drive-away cap cost with factoring in the tax incentive on my 2017
was $26k, why in the world would I look at other GM sedan-stuff like the
Malibu or Impala in that range when the base-trim Volt at that price is
just a superior car in every way

You are still so in love with your Volt, but it isn't popular with the mass market. But then the real mass market isn't in love with BEVs as yet either. The tide is turning, it just takes more than a handful of models to really catch the attention of the car buying public. As more chargers are installed and become more visible, people will get more curious, especially if they see cars charging at them. I get lots of questions when I'm charging. People are still learning and it will take some time.

Another generalization about Americans ya probably won't like is that
Americans tend to be stodgy as hell and hate doing anything different
than it's always been done unless they absolutely have to and their life
depends on it.

 

On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 12:25:33 PM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:

On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 11:25:13 AM UTC-4, gnuarm.de...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 10:39:25 AM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:
On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 10:32:31 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 4/19/19 10:12 AM, Winfield Hill wrote:
"As of June, the Chinese state subsidy for an electric car,
now worth $9,830, will be cut to around $4,100. To qualify
for any subsidy at all an electric vehicle must now have a
specified range of at least 250 miles. Over the next three
months they will also abolish local government subsidies
and channel these funds into improving the country's
charge-station infrastructure."

China has been accounting for about half the e-Car sales.



One thing is they know is Tesla and GM have high hopes for China and
sell a lot of EV product there, but those are still American companies
and there's a trade war going on.

Trade war? Dear Leader says tariffs are good and trade wars are easy to win.
He must have won by now and all the corn and soybeans piling up are just
fake news.

What many people don't get is that in many ways, trade is a zero sum game.

They don't "get it", because it's not true and never has been.
But Trump and the trumptards believe it.




China puts tarrifs on our soybeans so they buy them "somewhere else". But "somewhere else" now isn't selling to "somebody else" who now needs soybeans. So we sell to "somebody else" instead of the Chinese.

Obviously that's BS, because the beans are piling up here. Are you not
aware that Trump handed out $8 bil in welfare to farmers because of this,
the consequences of his tariffs? And note that once customers turn to
new sources, they may never come back. Is that the new "conservatism"?
Putting farmers on welfare? How does unsold beans sitting in the Midwest
reduce our trade deficits? Obviously it doesn't because we're setting
record trade deficits.

You point to correlations as if they were causality. They are not the same thing. China is not buying as many soybeans as they used to. They are smart enough to not point that out, rather use the lower soybean purchasing numbers as bargaining levers even if the numbers won't return to former levels after the trade conflict is resolved.

Anyone in charge of a country should have had analyses prepared on how a trade war might unfold. It could have foretold that soybean purchasing was going to drop no matter what was done. Do you think Trump consulted advisors on likely outcomes BEFORE he decided to duke it out with the Chinese? Why not start with a trade war with Ethiopia to test out your weapons?

--

Rick C.

-- Get a 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 11:45:27 AM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:

gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote...

What many people don't get is that in many ways, trade
is a zero sum game. China puts tarrifs on our soybeans
so they buy them "somewhere else". But "somewhere else"
now isn't selling to "somebody else" who now needs soybeans.
So we sell to "somebody else" instead of the Chinese.

Apparently not. Otherwise, why are farmer getting such
low prices, and why are storage facilities overflowing?
Farmers in other countries can increase their crop sizes.
And these lost sales may not return, after the war, if
China finds they like the alternate suppliers.

Farmers in other countries could have increase3d their crop sizes before the trade war. Commodity purchasing isn't done by establishing irreversible patterns.

As to your "surplus" and "low prices", when I look, I see soybean prices peaked in Aug, 2012 around $17 a bushel. Since then there have been many price drops even below today's prices.

As to why, "There are other factors at play, too. Chinese demand for soybeans overall is expected to slow. Their farmers are using less protein in their animal feed -- which is a primary use for soybeans. Plus, African swine fever hurt their hog industry last year, so there are fewer hogs to feed."

Can you expect the Chinese to buy Soybeans when they don't need them?

Don't get all excited because someone claims the trade war is behind price changes. Commodity markets are complex.

--

Rick C.

-+ Get a 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 1:00:17 PM UTC-4, gnuarm.de...@gmail.com wrote:

On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 11:45:27 AM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:
gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote...

What many people don't get is that in many ways, trade
is a zero sum game. China puts tarrifs on our soybeans
so they buy them "somewhere else". But "somewhere else"
now isn't selling to "somebody else" who now needs soybeans.
So we sell to "somebody else" instead of the Chinese.

Apparently not. Otherwise, why are farmer getting such
low prices, and why are storage facilities overflowing?
Farmers in other countries can increase their crop sizes.
And these lost sales may not return, after the war, if
China finds they like the alternate suppliers.

Farmers in other countries could have increase3d their crop sizes before the trade war. Commodity purchasing isn't done by establishing irreversible patterns.

As to your "surplus" and "low prices", when I look, I see soybean prices peaked in Aug, 2012 around $17 a bushel. Since then there have been many price drops even below today's prices.

As to why, "There are other factors at play, too. Chinese demand for soybeans overall is expected to slow. Their farmers are using less protein in their animal feed -- which is a primary use for soybeans. Plus, African swine fever hurt their hog industry last year, so there are fewer hogs to feed."

Can you expect the Chinese to buy Soybeans when they don't need them?

Don't get all excited because someone claims the trade war is behind price changes. Commodity markets are complex.

--

Rick C.

-+ Get a 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

So, Trump was lying again when he he said the $8 bil in emergency welfare
for rich farmers was needed because of the trade war with China? Best
part is that some of those who qualified included Chinese companies,
because they own companies here now. Ain't that a hoot? We're borrowing
money and giving to American farmers and the Chinese, instead of selling
China our crops. Pure madness that only trumptards could think makes sense.

BTW, if tariffs are good and trade wars are easy to win, after over a year
of fighting, why hasn't Trump won one yet?