OT: Al Franken

[R. Steve Walz]

Chuck Harris wrote:

R. Steve Walz wrote:


Gosh Steve, I thought you were a Communist. What a dissapointment to
find that you are merely a Democrat.

John
---------
Same thing. Communism is the ultimate outcome of Democracy.

-Steve

Fortunately here in the US we have a constitutional republic rather
than a democracy.
-------------

Not for long! The "republic" notion was fitingly taken from ancient
Rome, where it represented the desire by the rich to stifle democracy
and rule IN PLACE of the people. "Res publica" to a rich Roman meant
"our public conspiracy", la cosa nostra/causa nostra, our organized
criminal endeavor.

Our founding fathers rightfully feared a "mobocracy".

-Chuck
--------------------

That's because they were just rich vicious thieving parasitic
enslaving human shit, like all feudalist/capitalists.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[R. Steve Walz]

John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:30:30 GMT, "R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com
wrote:


Gosh Steve, I thought you were a Communist. What a dissapointment to
find that you are merely a Democrat.

John
---------
Same thing. Communism is the ultimate outcome of Democracy.

-Steve

Despotism is the only outcome of Communism.

John
-------------------

Only if you rich shit mislabel the final triumph of equality and
fairness as unfair to you who imagine your proper station in life
would be to be rich parasites who enslave the rest of us.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[Bill]

"Tom Del Rosso" <tdnews01@att.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:BUVhc.22660$um3.470536@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

"Bill" <xxx@yy.zz> wrote in
message news:MyThc.733$J93.723@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com...

I don't agree with that. Russia is a good counter example - i.e.
Communism
will probably in the long run fall apart as an economic system. As is
China.
They do have one party rule, but not one person. Both the courts and
the
marketplace have some power.

If the person with power is not you, then it makes no difference how
many people it is.

This makes absolutely no sense. You are saying if I don't have all the power
it does not make any difference if I live in the USA or Cuba.

The idea of separation of powers is to have no group
with all the power. A group with all the power is a dictator, no matter
how many people it is.

That makes no sense either. Seperation of powers implies an entity should not
have all power - a set of entities would be OK. But it seems irrelevent to
this disscussion. As I've pointed out there are multiple forces in play in
China today including the marketplace. Also what does dictator have to do with
anything? The issue was despot. Try to keep up.

Dictatorship does not imply one person.

I'm not sure, but in any case despot does which was the subject.

Bill

--
-Reply in group, but if emailing add 2 more zeros-
-and remove the obvious-

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Bill wrote:

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote:
On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:30:30 GMT, "R. Steve Walz"
rstevew@armory.com> wrote:

Gosh Steve, I thought you were a Communist. What a
dissapointment to
find that you are merely a Democrat.

John
---------
Same thing. Communism is the ultimate outcome of Democracy.
-Steve

Despotism is the only outcome of Communism.
John

I don't agree with that. Russia is a good counter example - i.e.
Communism will probably in the long run fall apart as an economic > system. As is China.
They do have one party rule, but not one person. Both the courts
and the marketplace have some power.
-------------------

You're confused, neither Russia nor China is or ever was "communist".
Rich people even MORE dishonest and venal than the ones here stole
that name to fool the people and steal their labor. The most anti-
humane assault on democracy is the pretense that the government you
offer is democratic, while you enrich yourself from it inequitably
and without working.

BTW does it worry you that China now owns about $400 billion of our national
debt? (Because of the debt and the trade imbalance, they have the money to buy
our bonds.) Just by putting these on the market they could throw our economy
in to chaos - suddenly there are a massive amount of bonds on the market and
our interest rates go sky high. Thus they have a serious lever over us in any
negotiation.

Bill
------------------

What are you worried about? These are just more rich people with power
over you, no more to be feared than other rich people you are willing
to allow to have power over you.

Neither Russia nor China were ever Communist. I know that it is the
pop version of truth that the rich have brainwashed you with that
they were, but they weren't, and ANY poli sci major can tell you
this.

The proper definition of Communism is that of a system where there
are NO privileged rich people, and in both Russia and China that
wasn't true, there were and are very rich people at the top running
it, which makes both of them merely varieties upon the same theme
we see in the USA, rich shit thieving and stealing from those who
labor in their place so they don't have to work, and who make less
than they should so that the rich can live large instead of the
laborer's families living just decently, having health insurance,
and having the full measure of what they have earned.

The Chinese party are the rich, and the Russian Politburo were as
well, they were finlly revealed AS the Russian Mafia who stole the
product of the People's labor at gunpoint and sold it wordwide and
stashed the wealth offshore , they were just more vicious thieving
lazy parasitic rich people who had hijacked the label of communist
for their feudal theivery, to fool everyone.

And in this country you have been bamboozled into believing that
this Inequity all somehow occurs fairly, rental of housing, mortgage
buying, speculation and the amassing of fortunes without working,
but the renting and buying is of property that rightfully belonged
from the beginning to those laborers as their fair share of human
inheritance which they should have by their birthright, as equal
inheritors of their planet, none worth more by mere birth than any
other, NO more inherited positions of birth and NO Nobilities!

Then ALSO make it illegal for anyone to talk another out of their
birthright, make it impossible to cheat the immature, ignorant or
the disadvantaged of their same birthright, guarantee them an equal
residence that they can have for their whole life, unfettered, and
the ability to earn with their hour of labor that is the same as
every other human, give them their equal democratic control over
the rest of our inherited planet earth and THEN things will be fair.

ANYTHING else, ANY other supposed "system", is merely, one more time,
the strong stealing from and enslaving the weak, and it is against
God and against Man, and everyone with an intact conscience should
oppose it by the very direst Violence!

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Tom Del Rosso wrote:

"Bill" <xxx@yy.zz> wrote in
message news:MyThc.733$J93.723@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com...

I don't agree with that. Russia is a good counter example - i.e.
Communism
will probably in the long run fall apart as an economic system. As is
China.
They do have one party rule, but not one person. Both the courts and
the
marketplace have some power.

If the person with power is not you, then it makes no difference how
many people it is. The idea of separation of powers is to have no group
with all the power. A group with all the power is a dictator, no matter
how many people it is.

Dictatorship does not imply one person.
-----------------------------

With the exception of the Majority, who has the right to rule by
their Democracy.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:38:24 GMT, "R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com>
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:30:30 GMT, "R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com
wrote:


Gosh Steve, I thought you were a Communist. What a dissapointment to
find that you are merely a Democrat.

John
---------
Same thing. Communism is the ultimate outcome of Democracy.

-Steve

Despotism is the only outcome of Communism.

John
-------------------
Only if you rich shit mislabel the final triumph of equality and
fairness as unfair to you who imagine your proper station in life
would be to be rich parasites who enslave the rest of us.

-Steve

My station in life is to work about five times as hard as anybody
else, solve the real problems whichever way it takes, and to provide
paychecks to 22 people who expect get them every two weeks on a
regular basis.

Is that fair?

John

 

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 22:11:32 GMT, "R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com>
wrote:

neither Russia nor China is or ever was "communist".
Rich people even MORE dishonest and venal than the ones here stole
that name to fool the people and steal their labor.

Of course. That's the way it always happens.

The most anti-
humane assault on democracy is the pretense that the government you
offer is democratic, while you enrich yourself from it inequitably
and without working.

Gosh, I'm not familiar with the concept "not working."

John

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 15:22:46 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote:

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:38:24 GMT, "R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:30:30 GMT, "R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com
wrote:


Gosh Steve, I thought you were a Communist. What a dissapointment to
find that you are merely a Democrat.

John
---------
Same thing. Communism is the ultimate outcome of Democracy.

-Steve

Despotism is the only outcome of Communism.

John
-------------------
Only if you rich shit mislabel the final triumph of equality and
fairness as unfair to you who imagine your proper station in life
would be to be rich parasites who enslave the rest of us.

-Steve

My station in life is to work about five times as hard as anybody
else, solve the real problems whichever way it takes, and to provide
paychecks to 22 people who expect get them every two weeks on a
regular basis.

Is that fair?

John

Steve wants a pay-check too, but he doesn't think he should have to
work for it. The best thing about Steve *isn't* that he's a worthless
piece-a-shit... it's that he knows it ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Bill]

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:408843CE.3D66@armory.com...

Bill wrote:

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote:
On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:30:30 GMT, "R. Steve Walz"
rstevew@armory.com> wrote:

Gosh Steve, I thought you were a Communist. What a
dissapointment to
find that you are merely a Democrat.

John
---------
Same thing. Communism is the ultimate outcome of Democracy.
-Steve

Despotism is the only outcome of Communism.
John

I don't agree with that. Russia is a good counter example - i.e.
Communism will probably in the long run fall apart as an economic
system. As is China.
They do have one party rule, but not one person. Both the courts
and the marketplace have some power.
-------------------
You're confused, neither Russia nor China is or ever was "communist".
Rich people even MORE dishonest and venal than the ones here stole
that name to fool the people and steal their labor. The most anti-
humane assault on democracy is the pretense that the government you
offer is democratic, while you enrich yourself from it inequitably
and without working.


I kinda thought they were because they said they were. The US said there

were. I'm sure the encylopedia said they were. Probably just about everybody
but Steve said they were. So OK I guess that makes it so.

BTW does it worry you that China now owns about $400 billion of our
national
debt? (Because of the debt and the trade imbalance, they have the money to
buy
our bonds.) Just by putting these on the market they could throw our
economy
in to chaos - suddenly there are a massive amount of bonds on the market
and
our interest rates go sky high. Thus they have a serious lever over us in
any
negotiation.

Bill
------------------
What are you worried about? These are just more rich people with power
over you, no more to be feared than other rich people you are willing
to allow to have power over you.

Neither Russia nor China were ever Communist. I know that it is the
pop version of truth that the rich have brainwashed you with that
they were, but they weren't, and ANY poli sci major can tell you
this.

I really don't have one handy. Can you provide a credible reference.

The proper definition of Communism is that of a system where there
are NO privileged rich people, and in both Russia and China that
wasn't true, there were and are very rich people at the top running
it, which makes both of them merely varieties upon the same theme
we see in the USA, rich shit thieving and stealing from those who
labor in their place so they don't have to work, and who make less
than they should so that the rich can live large instead of the
laborer's families living just decently, having health insurance,
and having the full measure of what they have earned.

The Chinese party are the rich, and the Russian Politburo were as
well, they were finlly revealed AS the Russian Mafia who stole the
product of the People's labor at gunpoint and sold it wordwide and
stashed the wealth offshore , they were just more vicious thieving
lazy parasitic rich people who had hijacked the label of communist
for their feudal theivery, to fool everyone.

Well they may start out that way. But I've become conviced that they will soon
evolve into something pretty bad and that has something to do with the nature
of people. Witness China (Mao) and Russia (Stalin). The correction seemed to
be not a restoratation of true Communisism but the importation of Capatialism.

Bill - who is wondering how he ever got in this discussion

And in this country you have been bamboozled into believing that
this Inequity all somehow occurs fairly, rental of housing, mortgage
buying, speculation and the amassing of fortunes without working,
but the renting and buying is of property that rightfully belonged
from the beginning to those laborers as their fair share of human
inheritance which they should have by their birthright, as equal
inheritors of their planet, none worth more by mere birth than any
other, NO more inherited positions of birth and NO Nobilities!

Then ALSO make it illegal for anyone to talk another out of their
birthright, make it impossible to cheat the immature, ignorant or
the disadvantaged of their same birthright, guarantee them an equal
residence that they can have for their whole life, unfettered, and
the ability to earn with their hour of labor that is the same as
every other human, give them their equal democratic control over
the rest of our inherited planet earth and THEN things will be fair.

ANYTHING else, ANY other supposed "system", is merely, one more time,
the strong stealing from and enslaving the weak, and it is against
God and against Man, and everyone with an intact conscience should
oppose it by the very direst Violence!

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[Guillaume]

Same thing. Communism is the ultimate outcome of Democracy.

Oh, is that so?

So, if I get this well, when G. W. Bush said the USA would bring
democracy to Iraq, he actually meant to put a communist government
in place?

Kinda ironic, when you think of how the republicans have been
fighting communism so fiercely.

Lol.

 

[Chuck Harris]

R. Steve Walz wrote:

Fortunately here in the US we have a constitutional republic rather
than a democracy.

-------------
Not for long! The "republic" notion was fitingly taken from ancient
Rome, where it represented the desire by the rich to stifle democracy
and rule IN PLACE of the people. "Res publica" to a rich Roman meant
"our public conspiracy", la cosa nostra/causa nostra, our organized
criminal endeavor.



Our founding fathers rightfully feared a "mobocracy".

-Chuck

--------------------
That's because they were just rich vicious thieving parasitic
enslaving human shit, like all feudalist/capitalists.

-Steve

No, they feared the "mob" because the mob is almost always
wrong. The mob (aka the majority of citizens) is very mercurial
in what they "believe". All it takes to cause them to over
react is a cataclysmic event, or a highly charismatic leader.

-Chuck

 

[Tom Del Rosso]

"Bill" <xxx@yy.zz> wrote in message
news5Xhc.919$S_.468@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com...

If the person with power is not you, then it makes no difference how
many people it is.

This makes absolutely no sense. You are saying if I don't have all the
power
it does not make any difference if I live in the USA or Cuba.

I didn't say "all".

The idea of separation of powers is to have no group
with all the power. A group with all the power is a dictator, no
matter
how many people it is.

That makes no sense either. Seperation of powers implies an entity
should not
have all power - [...]

An entity...a group...whatever you want to call it. Changing that word
doesn't make the difference between sense and no sense.

a set of entities would be OK.

Yeah, like a congress, an executive, and a court. That's what I said.

But it seems irrelevent to
this disscussion. As I've pointed out there are multiple forces in
play in
China today including the marketplace. Also what does dictator have to
do with
anything? The issue was despot. Try to keep up.

The issue was Communism. It doesn't always have despots, but it always
had dictatorship.

Dictatorship does not imply one person.

I'm not sure, but in any case despot does which was the subject.

"Despotism is the only outcome of Communism", JL said. In that context
he obviously wasn't using the word that literally.

If I was a rude asshole I might say something like, "Try to keep up".

And now you can have the last word because I'm not interested in your
search for disputation.

 

[Tom Del Rosso]

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:408844DC.6AA8@armory.com...

-----------------------------
With the exception of the Majority, who has the right to rule by
their Democracy.

Amazingly, we agree. But even a legislature with the power to change
laws must obey a legal process when changing them. The people must also
follow procedures in exercising their power, so in that sense the law is
a higher power.

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Tom Del Rosso wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:408844DC.6AA8@armory.com...
-----------------------------
With the exception of the Majority, who has the right to rule by
their Democracy.

Amazingly, we agree. But even a legislature with the power to change
laws must obey a legal process when changing them. The people must also
follow procedures in exercising their power, so in that sense the law is
a higher power.
-----------------------

Except only imaginarily so. The People decide that too!
The People can do whatever the hell they wish!

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[R. Steve Walz]

John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:38:24 GMT, "R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:30:30 GMT, "R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com
wrote:


Gosh Steve, I thought you were a Communist. What a dissapointment to
find that you are merely a Democrat.

John
---------
Same thing. Communism is the ultimate outcome of Democracy.

-Steve

Despotism is the only outcome of Communism.

John
-------------------
Only if you rich shit mislabel the final triumph of equality and
fairness as unfair to you who imagine your proper station in life
would be to be rich parasites who enslave the rest of us.

-Steve

My station in life is to work about five times as hard as anybody
else, solve the real problems whichever way it takes, and to provide
paychecks to 22 people who expect get them every two weeks on a
regular basis.

Is that fair?

John
----------------

Gee, aintcha kind? You're so full of yourself it's pukey. You couldn't
work even half again as hard as anyone else in your employ, it would
kill you. And we can tell from your attitude that you actually don't
even manage ANY more than the rest.

On the other hand, if you actually worked more hours and claimed the
wage due those hours, all you're doing is stealing hours from other
workers that should be divided more equitably!

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 15:22:46 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote:

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:38:24 GMT, "R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:30:30 GMT, "R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com
wrote:


Gosh Steve, I thought you were a Communist. What a dissapointment to
find that you are merely a Democrat.

John
---------
Same thing. Communism is the ultimate outcome of Democracy.

-Steve

Despotism is the only outcome of Communism.

John
-------------------
Only if you rich shit mislabel the final triumph of equality and
fairness as unfair to you who imagine your proper station in life
would be to be rich parasites who enslave the rest of us.

-Steve

My station in life is to work about five times as hard as anybody
else, solve the real problems whichever way it takes, and to provide
paychecks to 22 people who expect get them every two weeks on a
regular basis.

Is that fair?

John

Steve wants a pay-check too, but he doesn't think he should have to
work for it.
--------------

You've never read a single thing I've said then, lying asshole,
I believe that people who don't work should be denied access to FOOD!

The best thing about Steve *isn't* that he's a worthless
piece-a-shit... it's that he knows it ;-)

...Jim Thompson
------------------

You're a decayed lying piece of shit, living on minor, antique
and overblown accomplishment.

You need to be put out on an ice floe, Eskimo.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 03:34:51 GMT, "R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com>
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:38:24 GMT, "R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:30:30 GMT, "R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com
wrote:


Gosh Steve, I thought you were a Communist. What a dissapointment to
find that you are merely a Democrat.

John
---------
Same thing. Communism is the ultimate outcome of Democracy.

-Steve

Despotism is the only outcome of Communism.

John
-------------------
Only if you rich shit mislabel the final triumph of equality and
fairness as unfair to you who imagine your proper station in life
would be to be rich parasites who enslave the rest of us.

-Steve

My station in life is to work about five times as hard as anybody
else, solve the real problems whichever way it takes, and to provide
paychecks to 22 people who expect get them every two weeks on a
regular basis.

Is that fair?

John
----------------
Gee, aintcha kind? You're so full of yourself it's pukey. You couldn't
work even half again as hard as anyone else in your employ, it would
kill you. And we can tell from your attitude that you actually don't
even manage ANY more than the rest.

On the other hand, if you actually worked more hours and claimed the
wage due those hours, all you're doing is stealing hours from other
workers that should be divided more equitably!

-Steve

Uh, Steve, just hang on to that resume for a while longer, OK?

John

 

[R. Steve Walz]

John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 22:11:32 GMT, "R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com
wrote:

neither Russia nor China is or ever was "communist".
Rich people even MORE dishonest and venal than the ones here stole
that name to fool the people and steal their labor.

Of course. That's the way it always happens.
----------------

Except that's NOT communism and has nothing whatsoever to DO with
communism historically or otherwise. That's actually FEUDAL
CAPITALISM at it's most vicious and venal, nothing more, it's
the rich conniving to thieve once again.

The most anti-
humane assault on democracy is the pretense that the government you
offer is democratic, while you enrich yourself from it inequitably
and without working.


Gosh, I'm not familiar with the concept "not working."
John
-----------------------

Me neither, but if you make more than another man for an hour of
labor, or your non-labor, then you're a thief, and nothing else.

Pretending you deserve more if you do one job over another is
merely a connivance to steal.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 03:41:53 GMT, "R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com>
wrote:

Me neither, but if you make more than another man for an hour of
labor, or your non-labor, then you're a thief, and nothing else.

Pretending you deserve more if you do one job over another is
merely a connivance to steal.

Granted, but I'm stealing from myself, so it's OK.

John

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Bill wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message

I don't agree with that. Russia is a good counter example - i.e.
Communism will probably in the long run fall apart as an economic
system. As is China.
They do have one party rule, but not one person. Both the courts
and the marketplace have some power.
-------------------
You're confused, neither Russia nor China is or ever was "communist".
Rich people even MORE dishonest and venal than the ones here stole
that name to fool the people and steal their labor. The most anti-
humane assault on democracy is the pretense that the government you
offer is democratic, while you enrich yourself from it inequitably
and without working.

I kinda thought they were because they said they were.
------------------

Then you're merely stupid and would believe that a mugger was the
tax man if he wore a suit and carried a brief case.

The US said there were.
--------------------

You mean a certain Wisc Senator and his rich cronies said they were.
See a pattern here??

I'm sure the encylopedia said they were.
---------------------

Who decides what goes in those? Guess. The guys who own the printing
press, why else would the rich want to tell you anything??? To LIE!!

Probably just about everybody
but Steve said they were. So OK I guess that makes it so.
-----------------------

Go read political science, any beginner's text will do, and then
contrast and compare Soviet Russia and PRChina with its definition
of communism, and you will note a vast disconnect that you have
been brainwashed to ignore in your public mind.

BTW does it worry you that China now owns about $400 billion of our
national
debt? (Because of the debt and the trade imbalance, they have the money to
buy
our bonds.) Just by putting these on the market they could throw our
economy
in to chaos - suddenly there are a massive amount of bonds on the market
and
our interest rates go sky high. Thus they have a serious lever over us in
any
negotiation.

Bill
------------------
What are you worried about? These are just more rich people with power
over you, no more to be feared than other rich people you are willing
to allow to have power over you.

Neither Russia nor China were ever Communist. I know that it is the
pop version of truth that the rich have brainwashed you with that
they were, but they weren't, and ANY poli sci major can tell you
this.


I really don't have one handy. Can you provide a credible reference.
-----------

You're a big boy. The way you're beginning to sound like a whining
propagandist, I begin to wonder who is paying you to type right now.

The proper definition of Communism is that of a system where there
are NO privileged rich people, and in both Russia and China that
wasn't true, there were and are very rich people at the top running
it, which makes both of them merely varieties upon the same theme
we see in the USA, rich shit thieving and stealing from those who
labor in their place so they don't have to work, and who make less
than they should so that the rich can live large instead of the
laborer's families living just decently, having health insurance,
and having the full measure of what they have earned.

The Chinese party are the rich, and the Russian Politburo were as
well, they were finlly revealed AS the Russian Mafia who stole the
product of the People's labor at gunpoint and sold it wordwide and
stashed the wealth offshore , they were just more vicious thieving
lazy parasitic rich people who had hijacked the label of communist
for their feudal theivery, to fool everyone.

Well they may start out that way. But I've become conviced that they will soon
evolve into something pretty bad and that has something to do with the nature
of people.
-------------

That was just a lie contrived by the rich in the 1930's to terrify
the American electorate and especially mass labor movements against
socialism and communism, which they were beginning to embrace as
a social movement. Dozens of propagandists among the rich were
secretly enlisted to design lies to frighten and lies to fraudulently
explain away the obvious beneficial nature of socialism/communism.

They used the same sort of game the rich Politburo thugs were
playing on the Russian public claiming they were now living in
"communism", however defective, and that they should now be happy
they were all quite EQUALLY impoverished, not mentioning that this
was so NOT because of "communism" but because THEY WERE STEALING IT!!

And THAT was EXACTLY the complement to the lie OUR rich perpetrated
when they claimed that the evil was what communism somehow magically
did to "men's souls" by making them "dependent" and that no such
utopia is possible because we are all "so flawed", leaving out, of
course, the fact that the same is even MORE true of capitalism, in
which rich people are literally given a LICENSE to steal called
MONEY, and the rich CONTINUE to get to STEAL from everyone!!!

This "fall from the garden" from Xtian sin-mythology was rehashed to
control labor unions by trying to convince them that fighting among
themselves for the dregs the rich permit them is the best they can
do, which is what labor unions have done now for 70 years!!

When labor wins gains, the rich fire others to pay for them, and then
the rich crank up prices and the gains go away! This is WHY we need
the People to decide ALL issues of value, wage, price, and benefit
in this society, because it is always stolen by thugs otherwise!!!!

Witness China (Mao) and Russia (Stalin). The correction seemed to
be not a restoratation of true Communisism but the importation of Capatialism.
Bill - who is wondering how he ever got in this discussion
------------------------------------

You act as if the Chinese don't have the world's oldest market
system. Nope, after the earliest year or two of Mao the rich thugs
simply re-stole it out from under the peasants. Peasants cannot
implement a Communisn, it takes educated people, which makes it
ONLY possible in an advanced nation.
-Steve

And in this country you have been bamboozled into believing that
this Inequity all somehow occurs fairly, rental of housing, mortgage
buying, speculation and the amassing of fortunes without working,
but the renting and buying is of property that rightfully belonged
from the beginning to those laborers as their fair share of human
inheritance which they should have by their birthright, as equal
inheritors of their planet, none worth more by mere birth than any
other, NO more inherited positions of birth and NO Nobilities!

Then ALSO make it illegal for anyone to talk another out of their
birthright, make it impossible to cheat the immature, ignorant or
the disadvantaged of their same birthright, guarantee them an equal
residence that they can have for their whole life, unfettered, and
the ability to earn with their hour of labor that is the same as
every other human, give them their equal democratic control over
the rest of our inherited planet earth and THEN things will be fair.

ANYTHING else, ANY other supposed "system", is merely, one more time,
the strong stealing from and enslaving the weak, and it is against
God and against Man, and everyone with an intact conscience should
oppose it by the very direst Violence!
-Steve

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public