OT: Al Franken

[R. Steve Walz]

Rich Grise wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote:
You have proved your profound inability to think by failing to even
understand basic deterministic cause and effect in the physical > >world.

That's odd - I can say exactly the same about you.
-------------

You COULD, if you were LYING.

And the thing is, I actually _do_ understand basic Cause and Effect,
and, it might be to your dismay when your blinders finally come off,
it's not deterministic. This is the confusing, terrifying, enraging
part of reality that people would rather die than acknowledge.
---------------------------

And this is the bullshit that you can't defend, except to flail
emotionally.

Can you tell me what's on the other side of _my_ blinders? Can you
tell me what's on _my_ side of my blinders?
-----------------------------

The cancer or heart disease you'll die of in humiliation after you
told that poor paypal guy that his cancer was some form of emotional
weakness instead of one of several diseases that will kill each of
us because our bodies are not evolved to last, and which you'd know
if you weren't such fucking stupid vicious little posturer.

Otherwise, shut up. Or not, it's your choice.
-------------------------------

That's a vainglorious dare that you merely hoped I wouldn't take.

See, Walz, you can't escape Free Will, as much as your Master wants
you to believe you can.
-----------------------------

There is no "Master", what are you blubbering about?

Because, you see, whoever you install as your
Master over you, it's _YOU_ who has _CHOSEN_ to follow that particular
master.
-------------------------------

You wish to personify cause and effect as some "master", useless and
meaningless, it needs none such.

Neither you nor I have power to install anything. We are here
because we cannot prevent it. We are who we are because of what
cause and effect have made us.

Even your stupidity is merely a result of what the ridiculous
comedy you call your pitiful life has made you.

Yes, you are free to choose blind obedience. It's very safe, and
comfortable. After all, ignorance is bliss, isn't it?
Good Luck,
Rich
---------------------------------

There is no obedience, there is no choice except those we cannot
help but make, and there is no bliss in your ignorance no matter
how ignorant you are. You couldn't change your mind yourself if
your life depended on it.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Rich Grise wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:4097011C.5E1E@armory.com...
Rich Grise wrote:

Do you actually have some delusion that you "control" the chemistry
of your brain and the movement of molecules,

Oh, for heaven's sakes. Yes, in a sense - I'm moving the molecules
that are hitting the keyboard right this very moment.
----------------------

Nope, one of the inevitable effects of your causes is that you are
deluded into believing that you decide what you think, when all you
actually are is what it has you think.

As far as
"controlling" my brain chemistry, I have no intention of ever even
trying that - it's the imposition of control (or the illusion of
control) that throws the system out of equilibrium and is basically
the cause of the concomitant problems.
--------------------------

You're flailing wildly here, to no avail. You just managed to say
precisely nothing of meaning.

(well, I'm sure a good splif
or a couple bongs affect my brain chemistry, but I find it to be a
pleasant_ effect. Other than that, it'd make as much sense as
trying to "control" what my eyes are showing me, or my skin, or
any other sense. Well, OK, I control what I _look_ at, and I do,
in fact, have _absolute_ control over my own personal response.
--------------------

No, you believe that you do after the fact circularly, which is
entirely different.

Well, I control my behavior that's in response to the stimulus.
----------------------

No, if you did you could change it into any response of any kind,
and you can't. The reasons for your choices are actually what make
your choices, and you can't change them because they come from
outside yourself.

When something angers me, I don't control the anger. Anger, and
fear, and all the other emotions, are an integral part of my
sensory system. Their job is to report reality to me, not direct
my responses.
--------------------------

You're thrashing. You keep moving "yourself" around over the landscape
trying to find where it "comes from", and there isn't any such place,
it is a notion you can't help, not something that chooses anything.
Whatever it/you choose/just chose, the mythical "you" will try to
take credit for it, this little you atop the meat-machine, and you'll
merely be lying.

This is the difference that, when enough people get it, is going
to save Reality Itself from The Light Bearer when he comes
floating in on a cloud telling us he's the savior. But that's
crazy talk. Yes, I'm demonstrably quite insane. I have to be
nuts to sit here and cry "Freedom" while in the middle of the
enemy camp. And I'm clearly equally nuts, or maybe it's just
stupid, to think that it's possible to talk sense into a mind
that proclaims itself to be incapable of independent thought.
---------------------

You confabulate the most ridiculous games to try to hide behind.
You can't help doing it, your notions that come from your life
experience compel you to.

or do you paradoxically
and quite impossibly assert that they still move according to cause
and effect despite your silly assertions that you "control"
yourself?????? Go grow a mind!! READ something besides Usenet!

-Steve

Well, I'd say the "Cause" is that I want to post, and the "Effect"
is that some differences in light and dark spots appear on your
monitor.
--------------------------------

You're not going far back enough, there are no original "causes"
that are not themselves "effects".

Read something? Pfaugh!

I was reading the encyclopaedia recreationally at the age of 7.
------------------------------

And you didn't understand a word of it.

And I haven't stopped yet. And yes, part of me is still 7. But
I try to keep Dickie safe from you geeks. ;-)
Cheers!
Rich
------------------------------

Beaten for masturbating, were you?

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Rich Grise wrote:

"Bill Garber" <willy46pa@comcast DOT net> wrote in message
news:HLidnfxMi4iwvArdRVn-uw@comcast.com...

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
: > This guy Steve Walz reminds me much of "The
: > Matrix Reloaded", the character known as THE
: > MEROVINGIAN. There is no choice, only causality.
: > Cause and effect. Only Steve comes to us without
: > the "Why", without Power.
:
: > Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
: ----------------
: Now this cretin claims that I'm some nihilist just because I
disagree
: with him about what Good and Evil are. It's amazing the crap
that
: you try to pass for argument on Usenet these days.

Look, if you'd seen the movie you'd have realized
that I was agreeing with you, that we don't often
have much choice in how we respond to a situation,
but we DO have a choice if we understand WHY things
are happening the way they are.

No, he couldn't choose how he responds - he's a victim
of cause and effect. He's just a large ROM.
-----------------

All computing functions can be represented by ROM state machines.

Besides, what would
be the point in arguing the difference between Good
and Evil when we have no choice in the matter anyway.

Ah, but we do!
----------------

That was him, not me.

And the difference is really quite obvious,
except for the fact that from the first day of our lives,
society tries to teach us the opposite. And Steve is just
an extreme example of what happens when they just swallow
the dogma and turn themselves into automata.
---------------------------

Nonsense, the point is that we cannot control ourselves, we can
only be ourselves until we are changed by the actions of others,
and then only continue to be that new self, and they, in turn,
are also changed by us, both as we might like, and also not so.

I would be happy to converse with you on the subject,
but if you choose to insult me, then forget it.

Oh, he didn't "choose" to insult you - he's a victim of
cause and effect, you see.

Yeah, apparently, you can't have a conversation with him,
unless you expand the definition of "conversation" to include
"an exchange between a person and a tape player."

Cheers!
Rich
--------------------------

You have no grasp of how things work. Your notion of reality
is trapped in the inane circularities of catholic catechism,
or some such.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[Rich Grise]

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:409861C0.317E@armory.com...

Rich Grise wrote:

if you weren't such fucking stupid vicious little posturer.

Ah. Cussing and Ad Hominem.

Why does this not surprise me?

I think I'll let this thread go now. (is this because I have no
choice, and you've "caused" me to become bored? Does it make any
difference?)

Rich

 

[Guillaume]

You have no grasp of how things work. Your notion of reality
is trapped in the inane circularities of catholic catechism,
or some such.

That's interesting you would say that, as I think your views on
reality are much more "religious" than objective, and probably
much more so than you would like.

 

[Bill Garber]

"Guillaume" <grsNOSPAM@NO-SPAMmail.com> wrote in message
news:409925d8$0$315$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr...
: > You have no grasp of how things work. Your notion of reality
: > is trapped in the inane circularities of catholic catechism,
: > or some such.
:
: That's interesting you would say that, as I think your views on
: reality are much more "religious" than objective, and probably
: much more so than you would like.

And what is wrong with religion, pray tell?

Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
Email - willy46pa @ comcast DOT net
Change DOT to a dot to contact me



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[R. Steve Walz]

Guillaume wrote:

You have no grasp of how things work. Your notion of reality
is trapped in the inane circularities of catholic catechism,
or some such.

That's interesting you would say that, as I think your views on
reality are much more "religious" than objective, and probably
much more so than you would like.
-----------------

Sick Rightist Religionists like to pretend this about others who
disagree with them, because it makes it seem as if they are equal
to their enemies, which they will never be.

Objective Truth is obvious when you just stop lying disingenuously.
And that's all you're doing is lying.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[KR Williams]

In article <UZidnTN7M_EkqwTdRVn-vg@comcast.com>,
willy46pa@comcast says...

"Guillaume" <grsNOSPAM@NO-SPAMmail.com> wrote in message
news:409925d8$0$315$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr...
: > You have no grasp of how things work. Your notion of reality
: > is trapped in the inane circularities of catholic catechism,
: > or some such.
:
: That's interesting you would say that, as I think your views on
: reality are much more "religious" than objective, and probably
: much more so than you would like.

And what is wrong with religion, pray tell?

Nothing, as long as your religion is Walzism. Otherwise you're
to be shot on sight.

....of course Christians aren't welcome in polite society anymore
either. Even the Catholics (e.g. Kerry) have to hide their
religion behind a lie.

--
Keith

 

[Bill Garber]

"KR Williams" <krw@att.biz> wrote in message
news:MPG.1b037f24f2294d90989815@news1.news.adelphia.net...
: In article <UZidnTN7M_EkqwTdRVn-vg@comcast.com>,
: willy46pa@comcast says...
: >
: > "Guillaume" <grsNOSPAM@NO-SPAMmail.com> wrote in message
: > news:409925d8$0$315$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr...
: > : > You have no grasp of how things work. Your notion of
reality
: > : > is trapped in the inane circularities of catholic
catechism,
: > : > or some such.
: > :
: > : That's interesting you would say that, as I think your
views on
: > : reality are much more "religious" than objective, and
probably
: > : much more so than you would like.
: >
: > And what is wrong with religion, pray tell?
:
: Nothing, as long as your religion is Walzism.
: Otherwise you're to be shot on sight.

I do agree with what Steve is saying in part. It is
true that what we do is what we do, once the decision
is made, then we do it, and once done it was what we
must have had to do. Naturally we can't go back and
change it after the fact. Of course he is saying that
everything is planned out from the beginning and we
have no choice, and Biblical statements attest to this.
Of course, the Bible also claims that we have to make
the choice to do them, or we have failed God, thusly
we have sinned, which according to the planned from
the beginning rule, we would have chosen that path anyway.

: ...of course Christians aren't welcome in polite
: society anymore either. Even the Catholics (e.g.
: Kerry) have to hide their religion behind a lie.

Ain't that the truth. I'm probably going to be berated,
for what I said above, from all angles. 8o)

Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
Email - willy46pa @ comcast DOT net
Change DOT to a dot to contact me



---
This email ain't infected, dude!

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.634 / Virus Database: 406 - Release Date: 3/19/04

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Bill Garber wrote:

"KR Williams" <krw@att.biz> wrote in message
news:MPG.1b037f24f2294d90989815@news1.news.adelphia.net...
: In article <UZidnTN7M_EkqwTdRVn-vg@comcast.com>,
: willy46pa@comcast says...
:
: > "Guillaume" <grsNOSPAM@NO-SPAMmail.com> wrote in message
: > news:409925d8$0$315$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr...
: > : > You have no grasp of how things work. Your notion of
reality
: > : > is trapped in the inane circularities of catholic
catechism,
: > : > or some such.
: > :
: > : That's interesting you would say that, as I think your
views on
: > : reality are much more "religious" than objective, and
probably
: > : much more so than you would like.
:
: > And what is wrong with religion, pray tell?
:
: Nothing, as long as your religion is Walzism.
: Otherwise you're to be shot on sight.

I do agree with what Steve is saying in part. It is
true that what we do is what we do, once the decision
is made, then we do it, and once done it was what we
must have had to do. Naturally we can't go back and
change it after the fact. Of course he is saying that
everything is planned out from the beginning and we
have no choice,
------------------

No, we have a choice, but it's not really ours because "we"
are a figment. We are a result of our life, not a cause.

and Biblical statements attest to this.
---------------------

A few OT stuff, but most of it is poetry that is contradicted
as often as not. The bible if insane crap written by sheepfuckers
who thought the world was flat.

Of course, the Bible also claims that we have to make
the choice to do them, or we have failed God, thusly
we have sinned, which according to the planned from
the beginning rule, we would have chosen that path anyway.
-------------------------------------

Only one version of your life, in every detail, occurs.

Divine punishment for sin is nonense, your Fate makes you
the way you are, and it would have had to fashion you
differently. However, the vengeance of others you oppress
is justified.

: ...of course Christians aren't welcome in polite
: society anymore either. Even the Catholics (e.g.
: Kerry) have to hide their religion behind a lie.

Ain't that the truth. I'm probably going to be berated,
for what I said above, from all angles. 8o)
Bill
-----------------------------

No, you're a victim of your brainwashed upbringing. I wish I
had the opportunity to alter you extensively by asking you a
long list of very specific questions that would lead you to
the Truth, but there's a hell of a lot of you lot to fix.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[Rich Grise]

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:409AA21F.54A6@armory.com...
-----------------------------

No, you're a victim of your brainwashed upbringing. I wish I
had the opportunity to alter you extensively by asking you a
long list of very specific questions that would lead you to
the Truth, but there's a hell of a lot of you lot to fix.

-Steve

Put your money where your mouth is, if you're not just a dogmatic
wussy little posturing wannabe tyrant.

I bet a paycheck you aren't man enough to post this "long list of
very specific questions."

Sure, you're a helluva "man" when you're molesting helpless
children, and killing people from a distance without showing your
face, but you ain't got what it takes to back up your fluff.

If I'm wrong, show me.

Fool.

 

[KR Williams]

In article <3ZOdnYTalIpsDQfd4p2dnA@comcast.com>,
willy46pa@comcast says...

"KR Williams" <krw@att.biz> wrote in message
news:MPG.1b037f24f2294d90989815@news1.news.adelphia.net...
: In article <UZidnTN7M_EkqwTdRVn-vg@comcast.com>,
: willy46pa@comcast says...
:
: > "Guillaume" <grsNOSPAM@NO-SPAMmail.com> wrote in message
: > news:409925d8$0$315$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr...
: > : > You have no grasp of how things work. Your notion of
reality
: > : > is trapped in the inane circularities of catholic
catechism,
: > : > or some such.
: > :
: > : That's interesting you would say that, as I think your
views on
: > : reality are much more "religious" than objective, and
probably
: > : much more so than you would like.
:
: > And what is wrong with religion, pray tell?
:
: Nothing, as long as your religion is Walzism.
: Otherwise you're to be shot on sight.

I do agree with what Steve is saying in part. It is
true that what we do is what we do, once the decision
is made, then we do it, and once done it was what we
must have had to do. Naturally we can't go back and
change it after the fact. Of course he is saying that
everything is planned out from the beginning and we
have no choice, and Biblical statements attest to this.
Of course, the Bible also claims that we have to make
the choice to do them, or we have failed God, thusly
we have sinned, which according to the planned from
the beginning rule, we would have chosen that path anyway.

....wanna take that around the block again. I'm not quite dizzy
enough to fall over yet. ;-)

: ...of course Christians aren't welcome in polite
: society anymore either. Even the Catholics (e.g.
: Kerry) have to hide their religion behind a lie.

Ain't that the truth. I'm probably going to be berated,
for what I said above, from all angles. 8o)

Not from all angles. I'm not religious, but have no problems
with other's. ...at least so far as they don't advocate shooting
the non-believers, as does Walzism.

--
Keith

 

[KR Williams]

In article <c7j6lk$201$1@news.iquest.net>, toor@iquest.net
says...

In article <MPG.1b06d30d457a755898982b@news1.news.adelphia.net>,
KR Williams <krw@att.biz> writes:

Ain't that the truth. I'm probably going to be berated,
for what I said above, from all angles. 8o)

Not from all angles. I'm not religious, but have no problems
with other's. ...at least so far as they don't advocate shooting
the non-believers, as does Walzism.

As someone who is also non-religious, I fully embrace my friends
faiths. I have enjoyed friendships and relationships with various
individuals where I 'go to church or temple' with them. I see
NOTHING offensive in most mainstream religions. On the other hand,
the evangelists of the world (I mean, the aggressive ones like
Swaggart or leftists) irritate me.

Swaggart doesn't irritate me. He's only one TV button away from
silence. The leftists are irritating in that they're in-your-
face, everywhere.

--
Keith

 

[John S. Dyson]

In article <MPG.1b06d30d457a755898982b@news1.news.adelphia.net>,
KR Williams <krw@att.biz> writes:

Ain't that the truth. I'm probably going to be berated,
for what I said above, from all angles. 8o)

Not from all angles. I'm not religious, but have no problems
with other's. ...at least so far as they don't advocate shooting
the non-believers, as does Walzism.

As someone who is also non-religious, I fully embrace my friends

faiths. I have enjoyed friendships and relationships with various
individuals where I 'go to church or temple' with them. I see
NOTHING offensive in most mainstream religions. On the other hand,
the evangelists of the world (I mean, the aggressive ones like
Swaggart or leftists) irritate me.

John

 

[John Fields]

On Sat, 8 May 2004 17:50:44 +0000 (UTC), toor@iquest.net (John S.
Dyson) wrote:

In article <MPG.1b06d30d457a755898982b@news1.news.adelphia.net>,
KR Williams <krw@att.biz> writes:

Ain't that the truth. I'm probably going to be berated,
for what I said above, from all angles. 8o)

Not from all angles. I'm not religious, but have no problems
with other's. ...at least so far as they don't advocate shooting
the non-believers, as does Walzism.

As someone who is also non-religious, I fully embrace my friends
faiths. I have enjoyed friendships and relationships with various
individuals where I 'go to church or temple' with them. I see
NOTHING offensive in most mainstream religions. On the other hand,
the evangelists of the world (I mean, the aggressive ones like
Swaggart or leftists) irritate me.

---
If you find aggressive proselytizing irritating, then just consider
what a drag it is to listen to a stupid blowhard like you preach your
prattle.

--
John Fields

 

[John S. Dyson]

In article <bn8q909abunn2ourt9ngqcrotlq8g77972@4ax.com>,
John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> writes:

On Sat, 8 May 2004 17:50:44 +0000 (UTC), toor@iquest.net (John S.
Dyson) wrote:

In article <MPG.1b06d30d457a755898982b@news1.news.adelphia.net>,
KR Williams <krw@att.biz> writes:

Ain't that the truth. I'm probably going to be berated,
for what I said above, from all angles. 8o)

Not from all angles. I'm not religious, but have no problems
with other's. ...at least so far as they don't advocate shooting
the non-believers, as does Walzism.

As someone who is also non-religious, I fully embrace my friends
faiths. I have enjoyed friendships and relationships with various
individuals where I 'go to church or temple' with them. I see
NOTHING offensive in most mainstream religions. On the other hand,
the evangelists of the world (I mean, the aggressive ones like
Swaggart or leftists) irritate me.

If you find aggressive proselytizing irritating, then just consider
what a drag it is to listen to a stupid blowhard like you preach your
prattle.

Actually,

If you find aggressive proselytizing irritating, then just consider
what a drag it is to listen to a stupid blowhard like John Fields preach
prattle and just rant.

(Hint, you don't have to read what you dont want to.)

john

 

[John Fields]

On Sat, 8 May 2004 18:37:20 +0000 (UTC), toor@iquest.net (John S.
Dyson) wrote:

In article <bn8q909abunn2ourt9ngqcrotlq8g77972@4ax.com>,
John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> writes:

If you find aggressive proselytizing irritating, then just consider
what a drag it is to listen to a stupid blowhard like you preach your
prattle.

Actually,
If you find aggressive proselytizing irritating, then just consider
what a drag it is to listen to a stupid blowhard like John Fields preach
prattle and just rant.

---
Actually,
Since you find it necessary to parrot me, I suspect that you're
running out of steam and are typing just to see yourself talk. You're
certainly not coming up with anything new, and the entertainment value
of your lackluster blather is seriously waning, so pick up the pace,
OK? That is, if you _can_...

(Hint, you don't have to read what you dont want to.)

---
Hmm... You do seem to have a remarkable grasp of the obvious.

--
John Fields