Only one EV charger at home?!...

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sat, 22 Apr 2023 10:27:58 +0100, Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:

On 2023-04-19, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 20:17:09 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 19/04/2023 17:41, NY wrote:

4 minutes to fill your tank. I tend to run my tank fairly low, so I\'m
often buying close to the maximum of 60 litres, and I\'ve had some pumps
that have taken that sort of time. I don\'t think I\'ve found a pump that
does it in as little as a minute. Are diesel pumps generally faster or
slower than unleaded pumps? Is one type of fuel more likely than the
other to foam up if the fuel is pumped too quickly?

If I try and fill my 70 litre tank in a minute it shuts off. About 4-5
minutes is as fast as the safety shite will let me fill it.

Where did you locate the accelerator pedal for the pump? Every pump I\'ve seen pumps at a fixed speed.

Diesel pumps here have a \"high flow rate\" button, but not regular petrol pumps.
It\'s probably handy if you\'re filling a bus with thousand litre tank capacity.

They don\'t do that in the UK, they have seperate pumps with bigger spaces for lorries and buses. Why would you drive a bus into a space big enough for a car?

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sat, 22 Apr 2023 12:43:21 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:

On 22/04/2023 10:27, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2023-04-19, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 20:17:09 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 19/04/2023 17:41, NY wrote:

4 minutes to fill your tank. I tend to run my tank fairly low, so I\'m
often buying close to the maximum of 60 litres, and I\'ve had some pumps
that have taken that sort of time. I don\'t think I\'ve found a pump that
does it in as little as a minute. Are diesel pumps generally faster or
slower than unleaded pumps? Is one type of fuel more likely than the
other to foam up if the fuel is pumped too quickly?

If I try and fill my 70 litre tank in a minute it shuts off. About 4-5
minutes is as fast as the safety shite will let me fill it.

Where did you locate the accelerator pedal for the pump? Every pump I\'ve seen pumps at a fixed speed.

Diesel pumps here have a \"high flow rate\" button, but not regular petrol pumps.
It\'s probably handy if you\'re filling a bus with thousand litre tank capacity.

The problem also occurs with petrol. When I had a Rover 400, there was a
sharp bend in the filler, that caused many pumps to keep shutting off.
Sometimes it would be okay with the nozzle upside down and at other
times, I had no option but to slow the flow rate by not fully squeezing
the lever. It was annoying to me ... and to whoever was trapped behind
me and had already finished filling and paid.

Trapped? You must have tiny petrol stations. There\'s room to move round each other here: https://goo.gl/maps/2S88yRwXoZQU4kpRA

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Fri, 21 Apr 2023 06:03:52 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 09:08:10 GMT, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

On 2023-04-20, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 19:04:28 +0100, Commander Kinsey wrote:

And ours are 50 litres per minute (that\'s my full tank). You have
bigger cars with slower petrol....

You haven\'t seen anything until you\'ve seen a pickup with dual tanks. I
remember those sunny days of yore when gas pumps only went up to
$99.99.

My tank only holds 42 liters. What sort of whale do you drive?

Each of ours (Highlander and FJ cruiser) holds 60 liters. What sort of
econobox do you drive?

Toyota Yaris.

Ugh, treehuggermobile.

I have a 2002 Renault Scenic. 3 or 4 cylinders depending on it\'s mood. In 3 cylinder mode I think the petrol goes straight into the exhaust, because the miles per gallon plummets like hell. You\'d think fuel injection would turn off the failed cylinder, but I guess French electrics ain\'t that clever. It does manage a warning light.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 17:13:51 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 11:43:20 +0200, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 04:55, Bob F wrote:
On 4/18/2023 6:30 PM, Paul wrote:
On 4/18/2023 7:00 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 06:51:39 +0100, Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:

SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:

...

Why doesn\'t it always just charge fully? Special things like using a
cheap rate or charging slowly to save the battery should be an
option. If no input, fill her up at warp 9.8.

If you\'re skiing in the mountains and driving
back to Denver Colorado to catch a plane, that\'s
when you set your charger to 50% at the chalet.
Your \"tank\" will be full when you get to the airport,
because \"it is downhill all the way\". If you use
conventional friction brakes, the brakes can be hot.

With a BEV, you need to leave room in the \"tank\" for
the downhill trip, and your constant applications of
the regenerative brakes.

You adjust the charge level, for best battery (cycle) life,
and also so that the regenerative braking will work (because
it is \"free\" energy, when you use electrical-based braking).

Once the battery is 100% full, the car switches to using
friction brakes.


So, Does the car software allow you to pre-plan the trip so it charges
appropriately, taking into account the magnitude of the hills both ways
and even reduce the charge before the trip to allow the battery to
absorb the maximum energy from those downhill legs, thereby using the
least energy possible?

It seems like tieing together the gps and the trip planning should be an
obvious next step in these systems.

Wow.

It needs to know also the weight of the cargo

And not allow any side trips or changes. The Tesla is in control of
everything.

I just jump into my car and drive... don\'t need permission from Elon.

I will never ever buy a Tesla. You buy a Tesla which contains an AC unit, but you have to pay to have it switched on. Then you sell it to someone else, and they have to pay to have it switched on again? THEFT! The Tesla company are CROOKS!

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 20:54:19 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 19/04/2023 20:52, Skid Marks wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I have \'jane\' - my tomtom navigator in my smart phone. God she nags if
I don\'t go her way.

Give her a sex change and she\'ll be less verbose.

I am not sure if there is a male voice. I am not sure I would want one.

Satnavs have loads of voices. Trouble is most are American, that grating pompous I know everything voice.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 02:36:46 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 20:14:46 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I have \'jane\' - my tomtom navigator in my smart phone. God she nags if I
don\'t go her way. I know where the speed cameras are. To be sure so
does she, but she isnt programmable to avoid them.

I had sort of a Bella Lugosi voice on my Nuvi. On long highway trips it
would get bored and say stuff like \'I think I hear someone in the trunk\'.

In Rumanian, there is \"shits\" and \"drey arse\" which is who knows what, but you do it after shits.
https://youtu.be/tND6WneJrgA?t=60

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 20:14:46 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 19/04/2023 17:13, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 11:43:20 +0200, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 04:55, Bob F wrote:
On 4/18/2023 6:30 PM, Paul wrote:
On 4/18/2023 7:00 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 06:51:39 +0100, Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:

SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:

...

Why doesn\'t it always just charge fully? Special things like using a
cheap rate or charging slowly to save the battery should be an
option. If no input, fill her up at warp 9.8.

If you\'re skiing in the mountains and driving
back to Denver Colorado to catch a plane, that\'s
when you set your charger to 50% at the chalet.
Your \"tank\" will be full when you get to the airport,
because \"it is downhill all the way\". If you use
conventional friction brakes, the brakes can be hot.

With a BEV, you need to leave room in the \"tank\" for
the downhill trip, and your constant applications of
the regenerative brakes.

You adjust the charge level, for best battery (cycle) life,
and also so that the regenerative braking will work (because
it is \"free\" energy, when you use electrical-based braking).

Once the battery is 100% full, the car switches to using
friction brakes.


So, Does the car software allow you to pre-plan the trip so it charges
appropriately, taking into account the magnitude of the hills both ways
and even reduce the charge before the trip to allow the battery to
absorb the maximum energy from those downhill legs, thereby using the
least energy possible?

It seems like tieing together the gps and the trip planning should be an
obvious next step in these systems.

Wow.

It needs to know also the weight of the cargo

And not allow any side trips or changes. The Tesla is in control of
everything.

I just jump into my car and drive... don\'t need permission from Elon.

I have \'jane\' - my tomtom navigator in my smart phone.

I just use Google Maps. Works perfectly. Before a smartphone I had a real Tomtom and it fucked up all the time. Took me up farm roads with locked gates, told me to do a u turn on a dual carriageway where the central reservation had been closed off, it was terrible.

> God she nags if I don\'t go her way.

The Aussie accent is the best for telling you off. \"Turn around! You\'re going the wrong way!\"

I know where the speed cameras are. To be sure so
does she, but she isnt programmable to avoid them.

Mine warns me if I\'m over or near the limit when approaching one. I use the \"Radarbot\" app which tells me in a very posh English accent, \"Warning! Possible mobile speed camera, limit fifty.\" You can tell it if it was there or not. The last time I passed a real one, it said there was definitely one there, because a previous driver had said so.

If it\'s average speed, I use the average speed on my car\'s dashboard. Which means getting stuck behind someone lets me floor it at 120mph to the next camera.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 03:09:44 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 17:56:28 +0100, NY wrote:

My nephews have taken their tests fairly recently (within the last 10
years) and they said that changing down just before going down a long
hill is no longer taught and is actually deprecated. The current advice
is to use the brakes to do *all* the retardation.

I\'ve seen passenger cars smoke their brakes because they didn\'t shift
down.

I normally use brakes, since they\'re precisely controllable unlike down-shifting. Only once (in the French Alps), I smelt the brakes, so I simply dropped a gear to reduce the load on them.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 17:10:11 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 21:30:29 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid
wrote:

On 4/18/2023 7:00 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 06:51:39 +0100, Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:

SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:


I already find it a minor irritation that, on getting home, I have to
get out of the car, without locking it (or the charge flap will also be
locked),

Are you sure about that? I’d had my car for two years before realising that
the actual flap isn’t part of the central locking system.

which leaves lights, radio and dash on; plug in; then lock the
car; then use the charger app to set charging and the car\'s own app if I
want to monitor charge state.

Every time? I just have mine set to charge for the same four hours every
night. No fiddling with apps involved.

If I’m charging away from home I just press the schedule override button
inside the charging flap to start charging immediately (on AC). On DC it
sensibly just ignores any set schedule.

Why doesn\'t it always just charge fully? Special things like using a cheap rate or charging slowly to save the battery should be an option. If no input, fill her up at warp 9.8.

If you\'re skiing in the mountains and driving
back to Denver Colorado to catch a plane, that\'s
when you set your charger to 50% at the chalet.
Your \"tank\" will be full when you get to the airport,
because \"it is downhill all the way\". If you use
conventional friction brakes, the brakes can be hot.

With a BEV,

Do you have to call them Bev? Are they female?

you need to leave room in the \"tank\" for

the downhill trip, and your constant applications of
the regenerative brakes.

You adjust the charge level, for best battery (cycle) life,
and also so that the regenerative braking will work (because
it is \"free\" energy, when you use electrical-based braking).

Once the battery is 100% full, the car switches to using
friction brakes.

Paul

Yikes, one more thing to factor into driving. Park for an hour and
open the windows and run the heater full blast? Hey, a new roadside
business could be DISCHARGE YOUR BATTERY HERE.

In my gas powered Audi, I just downshift to spare the brakes.

The issue could be severe for big electric semis. Even diesels with
engine braking tend to smoke their brakes on a long downhill. We have
\"runaway truck ramps\" they can crash into when the brakes go out.

There\'s no problem. The car could just apply a big load to discharge the battery so it can still use regenerative braking. A big heating element perhaps. Doesn\'t have to direct it inside the car, it could just go outside.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 00:03:47 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:

On 19/04/2023 10:41, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-19 03:30, Paul wrote:
On 4/18/2023 7:00 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 06:51:39 +0100, Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:
SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:

...

Why doesn\'t it always just charge fully? Special things like using a
cheap rate or charging slowly to save the battery should be an
option. If no input, fill her up at warp 9.8.

If you\'re skiing in the mountains and driving
back to Denver Colorado to catch a plane, that\'s
when you set your charger to 50% at the chalet.
Your \"tank\" will be full when you get to the airport,
because \"it is downhill all the way\". If you use
conventional friction brakes, the brakes can be hot.

With a BEV, you need to leave room in the \"tank\" for
the downhill trip, and your constant applications of
the regenerative brakes.

You adjust the charge level, for best battery (cycle) life,
and also so that the regenerative braking will work (because
it is \"free\" energy, when you use electrical-based braking).

Once the battery is 100% full, the car switches to using
friction brakes.

Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it just coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

I\'m just curious, I don\'t have an EV and I wonder how they do these things.

With ours is depends upon the mode set (ECO, Normal, Sport) and the
regeneration level set (None, medium, Strong). I generally have it set
to give more \"engine braking\" than an ICE car, but not so much that it
catches me out.

I\'d set it to none. Why should I have to use a pedal to keep the car at a constant speed?

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 00:57:17 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 00:03:47 +0100, SteveW wrote:

With ours is depends upon the mode set (ECO, Normal, Sport) and the
regeneration level set (None, medium, Strong). I generally have it set
to give more \"engine braking\" than an ICE car, but not so much that it
catches me out.

Or the driver behind you... At least in the US it takes brake lights to
convince some drivers you\'re slowing down. On a bike I often flick the
brake even though I can almost come to a complete stop running down
through the gears.

What happens behind you is not your problem.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 20:06:33 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 19/04/2023 14:09, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2023-04-19, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes. The car will decide whether to use regen or friction
brakes. For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but at low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero where regen
is weak. Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it just coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to quite
aggressive braking. Coasting is more like a regular transmission where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission

In 2021, 0.9% of new vehicles sold in the U.S. had a manual
transmission. In 2022, 1.2%. Thus far in 2023, 1.7%.

Yes, we know that Americans in general are too thick to drive a manual
And these days the autos are so good they mostly don\'t need to.

No, the rest of the world is too thick to buy a car which does something as mundane as gear changing by itself.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 01:53:59 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 20:06:33 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Yes, we know that Americans in general are too thick to drive a manual
And these days the autos are so good they mostly don\'t need to.

Not only that but modern ATs often get better mileage than MTs for the all
important EPA fleet bullshit.

My 1998 VW Golf Auto got better mileage. An Auto is always in exactly the most efficient gear. And often between gears.

 

[rbowman]

On Thu, 01 Jun 2023 00:52:36 +0100, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 00:57:17 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 00:03:47 +0100, SteveW wrote:

With ours is depends upon the mode set (ECO, Normal, Sport) and the
regeneration level set (None, medium, Strong). I generally have it set
to give more \"engine braking\" than an ICE car, but not so much that it
catches me out.

Or the driver behind you... At least in the US it takes brake lights
to convince some drivers you\'re slowing down. On a bike I often flick
the brake even though I can almost come to a complete stop running down
through the gears.

What happens behind you is not your problem.

It fucking well is if they\'re going to ram you at 60 mph.

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 01/06/2023 03:45, rbowman wrote:

On Thu, 01 Jun 2023 00:52:36 +0100, Commander Kinsey wrote:

What happens behind you is not your problem.

It fucking well is if they\'re going to ram you at 60 mph.

For once I can agree with you.
Giving lessons to tailgaters with the handbrake was a favourite trick.
Only let it off when the smoking tyres in the mirror were a foot from
your rear bumper.



--
“It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established
authorities are wrong.”

― Voltaire, The Age of Louis XIV

 

[Peeler]

On 1 Jun 2023 02:45:14 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

What happens behind you is not your problem.

It fucking well is if they\'re going to ram you at 60 mph.

If fucking well IS a troll, and you fucking well ARE a troll-feeding senile
ASSHOLE!

--
More typical idiotic senile gossip by lowbrowwoman:
\"It\'s been years since I\'ve been in a fast food burger joint but I used
to like Wendy\'s because they had a salad bar and baked potatoes.\"
MID: <ivdi4gF8btlU1@mid.individual.net>

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Fri, 21 Apr 2023 16:31:26 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On 21 Apr 2023 11:51:38 +0100 (BST), Theo wrote:

In that situation, you\'d get more engine braking if you changed down (it
would try to rev the engine faster) but it wouldn\'t be good for the
engine.

As long as you don\'t over-rev the engine it\'s not a problem. Dump it from
5th to 4th when you\'re at the upper end of the rpm range in 5th and you
might be picking up pieces.

Exactly, sooner or later you\'ll guess wrong and change down too early.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sat, 22 Apr 2023 20:07:08 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Sat, 22 Apr 2023 07:50:36 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts wrote:

Certainly using a gear to decend will be no worse than climbing the hill
in that gear at the same speed.

The rule of thumb for semis is to use the same gear going up or down. If
you had to shift down enough to climb the grade at 28 mph there is
probably a good reason you only want to go down the other side at 28 mph
if you don\'t have a jake brake.

Why would you think one side of the hill was the same angle as the other?

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 00:07:18 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:

On 19/04/2023 14:07, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to quite
aggressive braking. Coasting is more like a regular transmission where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission, and on those the (gasoline)
car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is released. We use that
to maintain the speed when going down long slopes, instead of using the
brake. If we need more brake action, we shift to a lower gear.

Both. With a manual transmission you get some degree of engine braking, but
you coast if you open the clutch. Without actively changing down gear the
amount of engine braking is not massive - if you purely let off the
accelerator doing 70mph on a flat road in top gear you don\'t get very much
retardation.

It is possible to change down for more, but the engine isn\'t happy about it
unless you match revs first, so in general it\'s easier to use the brakes.

Engine braking is not something you\'d do around town or on a regular
motorway unless you\'re in a hilly area, so most people don\'t use it very
often.

Many of us were taught to change down through the gears and use engine
braking for almost all stops, including around town.

I was, in 1997. I stopped doing that as soon as I passed the test. Braking is much more controllable. Engine braking is all or nothing, completely unsuitable for gracefully changing speed. Think about the erson behind you seeing a car lurching about with no brakelights.

These days they
tend to rely on brakes and just change down to whatever gear they expect
to need as the set off or speed up again.

A much more sensible idea.

 

[Ian Jackson]

In message <op.15zhd1dgmvhs6z@ryzen.home>, Commander Kinsey
<CK1@nospam.com> writes

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 00:07:18 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:

On 19/04/2023 14:07, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to quite
aggressive braking. Coasting is more like a regular transmission
where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission, and on those the (gasoline)
car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is released. We use that
to maintain the speed when going down long slopes, instead of using the
brake. If we need more brake action, we shift to a lower gear.

Both. With a manual transmission you get some degree of engine braking, but
you coast if you open the clutch. Without actively changing down gear the
amount of engine braking is not massive - if you purely let off the
accelerator doing 70mph on a flat road in top gear you don\'t get very much
retardation.

It is possible to change down for more, but the engine isn\'t happy about it
unless you match revs first, so in general it\'s easier to use the brakes.

Engine braking is not something you\'d do around town or on a regular
motorway unless you\'re in a hilly area, so most people don\'t use it very
often.

Many of us were taught to change down through the gears and use engine
braking for almost all stops, including around town.

I was, in 1997. I stopped doing that as soon as I passed the test.
Braking is much more controllable. Engine braking is all or nothing,
completely unsuitable for gracefully changing speed.

That\'s only because you don\'t know how to do it properly.

Think about the erson behind you seeing a car lurching about with no
brakelights.

They soon learn not to drive too close to you.

These days they
tend to rely on brakes and just change down to whatever gear they expect
to need as the set off or speed up again.

A much more sensible idea.

The best idea is to compromise with a sensible mixture of gear-changing
and braking.
--
Ian
Aims and ambitions are neither attainments nor achievements