Old style filament lamps?

[Geo]

On Fri, 29 Apr 2011 06:54:48 +0100, Terry Pinnell
<terrypingm@DELETEgmail.com> wrote:

That link gave me a nice picture but can anyone recommend a specific 60W
and 100W UK supplier please?

CPC Farnell
LP00298 100W BC PEARL
Ł4.72 (inc VAT) for 10

They do not seem to do 60 watt but our local high street electrical
shop still sells both.

 

[Smitty Two]

In article <qUoup.44607$bT6.18127@newsfe05.ams2>,
"Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

I would like to still be
able to get the proper bulbs for them that their designers intended to go in
them.

If you really didn't stock up before the bans, have you tried bulbs.com
or similar?

 

[Geo]

Or Ł6.99 for 10 (post free) on ebay:-
item no. 230611860137

 

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

Jim Yanik wrote:

you need color rendering accuracy to READ?

I don't have a way of quantifying it, but a continous source is much easier
for me to use as a reading lamp. So a 20 watt halogen lamp on "low" is
easier to read than an 11 watt flourescent at the same distance.

Farther away it works the same way too, but I no longer have an incandesent
lamps except for special purpose ones (reading lamps, photgraphic safelights,
etc) to do an eaual distance comparison.

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to misquote it.

 

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

Arfa Daily wrote:

Well. 'looking a bit funny' might be fine in your home, but it's not in
mine. Light fixtures are part of the decor, chosen as much for their
appearance, as for their lighting function, and I would like to still be
able to get the proper bulbs for them that their designers intended to go in
them. I don't want candle bulbs that are half as long again as the 'real'
thing and stick out of the shades, or convoluted spirals that look
ridiculous in open or glass shaded fixtures.

That's my biggest problem with CFL's. I can live with the color problems,
I can live with the slow startup, but what bothers me is the extremely bright
end sticking beyond the fixture causing my eyes to compensate when I look in
that direction, making the rest of the room too dark until I look away and
they recover.

It's very annoying that while I have several globe fixtures that perfectly well
took 75 watt incadescent bulbs, there are no similar CFLs. Even the short
curly ones don't fit in the same space once they get beyond the equivalent
of a 40 watt incadescent bulb. :-(

Also what do you put in a refrigerator?????

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to misquote it.

 

[Arfa Daily]

"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:91v54rFr3mU1@mid.individual.net...

"Terry Pinnell"
"Arfa Daily"

Maybe you can't see anything wrong with them, and they suit your eyes,
But
they are no good for me on both counts. I, and many others both here and
over there, *can* see their deficiencies, and don't like them. As indeed
prompted the OP to make his post ...

Arfa: Agreed. My feelings exactly.


** Arfa has admitted to being colour blind.

So you are too - it seems.

Have trouble with 1% resistor codes do we???

12% of all males are colour blind - ie they fail one of the basic tests.

Only 1 or 2% of females are so afflicted - but THEY are the CARRIERS !



.... Phil

Yes indeed - I am colour blind, and if that is what makes the difference
between someone who does have an issue with CFLs, and someone who doesn't,
then 12% - one eighth - of the population being forced to suffer because
of this legislation, seems a pretty poor show of arrogance by the powers
that be, in insisting that we suffer in the way that we are being made to
....

Arfa

 

[William Sommerwerck]

Probably warm / soft white; any other fluorescent is
horror movie lighting. If you don't have the color temp
spec, hold a lit, known temperature bulb next to it and
see if it looks redder, bluer, or the same.

It is difficult to specify a "color temperature" for a non-continuous
source.

The bare bulbs look "white", leaning a bit to the warm side.

 

[Arfa Daily]

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ipd6e4$ml9$1@dont-email.me...

They give you full brightness at switch on, unlike
compact fluorescents that take time to warm-up.

Yes, but...

The better CFLs are quite bright at turn-on -- bright enough that you
don't feel you bought a defective lamp.

The operative word being "quite". I thought you said that your Home
Despot
types came on quicker than an incandescent. Certainly doesn't sound that
way
from that description ... And as far as I'm concerned, any incandescent
replacement technology lamp that does not produce the *full* light output
within a few mS of switch on, or is ambient temperature dependant for its
performance, *is* a defective lamp.

The Home Depot lamps come on instantly at a level I'd judge to be around
60% -- maybe higher -- of full brightness. Full brightness takes another
30
seconds or so. This is a huge improvement over the bulbs from 15 years
ago.

With all due respect William, that is the most feeble justification that you
have come up with so far. It's like the government banning cars and making
everybody buy bikes instead, and then turning round and saying that riding a
bike is still better than when you had to walk before the bike was invented
.... If it has taken 15 years so far to get these dreadful things from
total crap to utter crap, then by the time they are actually at a point
where they can properly replace incandescent lamps, I will be a pile of dust
anyway. I'm afraid that I cannot, by any stretch of my imagination, equate
"60%" and "30 seconds" to either "instant" or satisfactory replacement
technology. If they really were 'good', they wouldn't need defending against
all of the criticisms that are levelled against them by (colour blind ??)
people the world over.

Arfa

 

[Arfa Daily]

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ipd6e4$ml9$1@dont-email.me...

They give you full brightness at switch on, unlike
compact fluorescents that take time to warm-up.

Yes, but...

The better CFLs are quite bright at turn-on -- bright enough that you
don't feel you bought a defective lamp.

The operative word being "quite". I thought you said that your Home
Despot
types came on quicker than an incandescent. Certainly doesn't sound that
way
from that description ... And as far as I'm concerned, any incandescent
replacement technology lamp that does not produce the *full* light output
within a few mS of switch on, or is ambient temperature dependant for its
performance, *is* a defective lamp.

The Home Depot lamps come on instantly at a level I'd judge to be around
60% -- maybe higher -- of full brightness. Full brightness takes another
30
seconds or so. This is a huge improvement over the bulbs from 15 years
ago.

With all due respect William, that is the most feeble justification that you
have come up with so far. It's like the government banning cars and making
everybody buy bikes instead, and then turning round and saying that riding a
bike is still better than when you had to walk before the bike was invented
.... If it has taken 15 years so far to get these dreadful things from
total crap to utter crap, then by the time they are actually at a point
where they can properly replace incandescent lamps, I will be a pile of dust
anyway. I'm afraid that I cannot, by any stretch of my imagination, equate
"60%" and "30 seconds" to either "instant" or satisfactory replacement
technology. If they really were 'good', they wouldn't need defending against
all of the criticisms that are levelled against them by (colour blind ??)
people the world over.

Arfa

 

[William Sommerwerck]

Yes, indeed -- I am colour blind, and if that is what makes the
difference between someone who does have an issue with
CFLs, and someone who doesn't, then 12% -- one eighth --
of the population being forced to suffer because of this legislation,
seems a pretty poor show of arrogance by the powers that be, in
insisting that we suffer in the way that we are being made to.

I assume you suffer from protanopia or deuteranopia. My father did. (I
don't.)

I worked with a guy with that problem. One day he asked me to help him pick
colors for a Web site. It was causing him all kinds of confusion. I showed
him a fluorescent-green pen, and asked him what color it looked to him --
"Orange". (That doesn't mean he saw it in the way a person with normal color
vision would see orange. Rather, he could not distinguish it from what we
would call orange.)

Peter Wensberg, the author of "Land's Polaroid" (a beautifully written and
wonderfully entertaining book) told how, during a lunch of Chinese takeout,
Dr Land administered one of the standard color perception tests (the kind
with colored circles, where you indicate which letter or number you see).
Wensberg utterly flunked it, getting every one wrong.

I've lived with fluorescent light for more than 60 years, and have never
suffered (except in my early days at Microsoft, when the office lights gave
me (and some others) headaches). It appears to me that your suffering is
primarily aesthetic.

 

[William Sommerwerck]

"Smitty Two" <prestwhich@earthlink.net> wrote in message
newsrestwhich-8CBAD3.01402329042011@mx01.eternal-september.org...

In article <ipd6e4$ml9$1@dont-email.me>,
"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

The Home Depot lamps come on instantly at a level I'd judge
to be around 60% -- maybe higher -- of full brightness. Full
brightness takes another 30 seconds or so.

That is some serious backpedaling from your earlier assertions.
Thanks for telling the truth this time around.

I'm not backpedaling in the least. They do, indeed, come on instantly. You
ASSUMED that "come on" means "light at full brightness".

Consider tubular fluorescent lights. Many DO NOT come on instantly. But when
they do light, it's at full brightness -- at THAT instant, which could be
considered the point of turn-on.

 

[William Sommerwerck]

What do you put in a refrigerator?????

Refrigerator bulbs represent such a small percentage of energy consumption
there would be no point in switching to CFLs.

Once the color problems with LEDs are solved, there will no doubt be an LED
refrigerator lamp.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Arfa Daily wrote:

Yes indeed - I am colour blind, and if that is what makes the difference
between someone who does have an issue with CFLs, and someone who doesn't,
then 12% - one eighth - of the population being forced to suffer because
of this legislation, seems a pretty poor show of arrogance by the powers
that be, in insisting that we suffer in the way that we are being made to

It's time for the villagers to gather their pitchforks and burning
torch, and storm that infestation in Belgium.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

William Sommerwerck wrote:

What do you put in a refrigerator?????

Refrigerator bulbs represent such a small percentage of energy consumption
there would be no point in switching to CFLs.

Once the color problems with LEDs are solved, there will no doubt be an LED
refrigerator lamp.

There are small LED replacements that may fit a refrigerator.

<http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=e26+led&_frs=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m359>


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote:

Arfa Daily wrote:
I'm afraid that I cannot, by any stretch of my imagination, equate
"60%" and "30 seconds" to either "instant" or satisfactory replacement
technology.


Besides outdoor lighting where I needed hundreds of watts of incandesent
lighting, I used the first for indoor lighting in places that
traditionally have lights on timers. In a windowless bathroom an 8 watt CFL
provides enough light at so low a cost I just leave them on.

I have several motion sensor lights in my house so I don't have to
search for a light switch when I have my hands full, or I'm half asleep.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

 

[Roger Blake]

On 2011-04-29, Phil Allison <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote:

** Here, all that has to happen is someone report the shop keeper to the
relevant Energy Authority.

Very Orwellian, and I suspect this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Rather than fawning all over the "royal couple" (it's hard to imagine a
more worthless set of parasitical leeches than the "royal" family), it may
be time for the Brits to start planning revolution.

Of course we have our own problems with these enviro-nazi types on our side
of the pond as well. When a ban on incandescents was planned here I stocked
up and have a basement with a lifetime supply of good ol' 100 watt bulbs.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Blake (Change "invalid" to "com" for email. Google Groups killfiled.)

"Climate policy has almost nothing to do anymore with environmental
protection... the next world climate summit in Cancun is actually
an economy summit during which the distribution of the world's
resources will be negotiated." -- Ottmar Edenhofer, IPCC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

Arfa Daily wrote:

Yes indeed - I am colour blind, and if that is what makes the difference
between someone who does have an issue with CFLs, and someone who doesn't,
then 12% - one eighth - of the population being forced to suffer because
of this legislation, seems a pretty poor show of arrogance by the powers
that be, in insisting that we suffer in the way that we are being made

That's an interesting point. If 12% of the population is aflicted with a
gentic disorder, or one caused by a disease or trauma, then the National
Health should provide them with incadescent bulbs and a susbidy for
electricity to run them.

I know the US has the "Americans with Disabilities Act" that would require
it, and I'm sure there is something in British or EU law like that.

I would persue it based on what the National Health does for people
with macular degeneration and work backwards. At what point is the
inability to see defined and where does color blindness affect your
daily life.

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to misquote it.

 

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

Arfa Daily wrote:

I'm afraid that I cannot, by any stretch of my imagination, equate
"60%" and "30 seconds" to either "instant" or satisfactory replacement
technology.

Besides outdoor lighting where I needed hundreds of watts of incandesent
lighting, I used the first for indoor lighting in places that
traditionally have lights on timers. In a windowless bathroom an 8 watt CFL
provides enough light at so low a cost I just leave them on.

After all a timer uses electricty too, and figuring out when to have it go
on and off without leaving people in the dark is an art.

We don't turn lights on or off during the Sabbath, and used to leave the
main light in our apartment on all Friday night. We installed a timer
to turn it off at midnight (when the last of us goes to sleep) and on again
at six AM, (when the first of us gets up), but it will take 200 weeks
to even out the cost of the timer and installation versus the cost
of electricity. By that time, we will have long since moved out. :-(

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to misquote it.

 

[Arfa Daily]

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ipeaeg$7t2$1@dont-email.me...

Yes, indeed -- I am colour blind, and if that is what makes the
difference between someone who does have an issue with
CFLs, and someone who doesn't, then 12% -- one eighth --
of the population being forced to suffer because of this legislation,
seems a pretty poor show of arrogance by the powers that be, in
insisting that we suffer in the way that we are being made to.

I assume you suffer from protanopia or deuteranopia. My father did. (I
don't.)

I worked with a guy with that problem. One day he asked me to help him
pick
colors for a Web site. It was causing him all kinds of confusion. I showed
him a fluorescent-green pen, and asked him what color it looked to him --
"Orange". (That doesn't mean he saw it in the way a person with normal
color
vision would see orange. Rather, he could not distinguish it from what we
would call orange.)

Peter Wensberg, the author of "Land's Polaroid" (a beautifully written and
wonderfully entertaining book) told how, during a lunch of Chinese
takeout,
Dr Land administered one of the standard color perception tests (the kind
with colored circles, where you indicate which letter or number you see).
Wensberg utterly flunked it, getting every one wrong.

I've lived with fluorescent light for more than 60 years, and have never
suffered (except in my early days at Microsoft, when the office lights
gave
me (and some others) headaches). It appears to me that your suffering is
primarily aesthetic.

As I've said on a number of occasions, linear flourescent light doesn't
affect me in anything like the same way as CFL. I can read perfectly well
under it. I work perfectly well under it. I don't find the light displeasing
in either colour or quality. I don't know how to reconcile this apparent
disparity, as I too have lived under flourescent light for over fifty years.
I don't know what my type of colour blindness is called, nor whether it is
common in type, or rare. I am apparently red blind and green insensitive, as
far as I recall. It is many years since I took the test. I think it meant
that I couldn't see some shades of red at all, when they were mixed in with
other colours, and that I couldn't distinguish some shades of green amongst
other shades of green. Oddly enough though, the light from CFLs always
appears to have a slightly 'sick' green caste to me, irrespective of the
quoted colour temperature.

Arfa

 

[Arfa Daily]

"Roger Blake" <rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote in message
news:20110429133740@news.eternal-september.org...

On 2011-04-29, Phil Allison <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote:
** Here, all that has to happen is someone report the shop keeper to the
relevant Energy Authority.

Very Orwellian, and I suspect this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Rather than fawning all over the "royal couple" (it's hard to imagine a
more worthless set of parasitical leeches than the "royal" family), it may
be time for the Brits to start planning revolution.

Not wishing to be rude, Roger, but what exactly is it that you purport to
know about my country's Royal Family in general, or indeed the couple who
today got married, that gives you the right to rubbish them in this way ?
For the most part, they work very hard in ambassadorial roles for our
country around the world. The one that got married today is a nice enough
lad who's a serving officer in our military, and his new wife is a very nice
girl who is not herself from a royal background. I have seen little evidence
of people 'fawning' over this event. Most seem genuinely pleased for them,
and if, in these difficult and depressing financial times, the occasion
provides the general population with a bit of a boost, what's wrong with
that ?
Arfa