New query for low cost PCB CAD that *works*

[Robert Baer]

Robert Baer wrote:

Do not mention Eagle, i wasted a lot of time on POTS to download the
demo version, and again, it was totally useless.
And i was unable to figure out what files wer needed to make the DOS
Orcad even run - so that is out.
PCB123 is out, because the manual is worse than obscene - unreadable
(Acrobat sez it is corrupted and cannot fix it).
So what is left?
1) I downloaded the Vutrax "readme" and loader; VTXsetup.exe bitches

about non-exiatant master files.
Ignore the fact that it was too dumb to *create* a folder, it
certainly is incomplete if it cannot create those master files or "dial
home" for them.
So, what do i do to get it installed (it should be simple and not
require a lot of jumping thru hoops)?

2) I downloaded and sucessfully installed WinQcad. Seems to be useable,
maybe.
I need to create a library (done) and add a dual NPN in a SOT-323
package (well, partly done).
The "part" has the schematic of two NPNs inside the box and oriented
properly so one (theoretically) could draw connections from each element
(E, B, C) to pins of the package, BUT...
I cannot add pins to the package, i cannot even number the element
(assign pin numbers), i cannot change the labels (E1, B1, C1, E2, B2, C2).
The help document is not eXplicit enough to be of any help.
It was hard enough to figure out how to *copy* an NPN over to the new
"part", and it was a PITA doing that, especially with no clue that
closing "new part", opening NPN part, copy, close, open new part, paste,
etc would not lose any old info - much less the hassle.
So, how do i make the darn "part" complete on the electronic dwg side?
And then, i presume more hassle on the dimensioninf side...

 

[Robert Baer]

Joerg wrote:

Hello Robert,

Like i said before, if one cannot add or delete a part, what use is it?
If it worked / works for you, great.
It was worse than worthless for me.



I have no problem adding and deleting parts in Eagle.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
Good for you.

 

[Chuck Harris]

Robert Baer wrote:

Chuck Harris wrote:

Robert Baer wrote:


Like i said before, if one cannot add or delete a part, what use is
it?
If it worked / works for you, great.
It was worse than worthless for me.



Robert,

Computers are remarkably consistent in what they do, geographically.
If it
doesn't work for you, it is likely that you are using some strange
combination
of software and hardware. What operating system are you using, and
about how
old is your computer?

-Chuck

Lemme see now; i run different OSes, on different drives, and prefer
to use Win2000, and i have a P5-2200 (GenuineIntel x86 Family 15 Model 2
Stepping 7); 1Gbte RAM.

Hi Robert,

Ok, that sounds like it is within the range of what should work with Eagle.

I presume that you are using a mouse, and not some strange game console to
do your point and select?

Also, did you read the instructions, and try the demo?

There has to be a clue here somewhere, as tens of thousands use the program,
and find it useful.... and yet you cannot get it to do the simplest most
basic of commands.

-Chuck

 

[Chuck Harris]

Robert Baer wrote:

Joerg wrote:

Hello Robert,

Like i said before, if one cannot add or delete a part, what use is
it?
If it worked / works for you, great.
It was worse than worthless for me.




I have no problem adding and deleting parts in Eagle.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Good for you.

Perhaps at this point, you should ask Joerg how to add and
delete parts in Eagle. I would bet that he can clear up
your problem. Eagle is intensely popular among hobbiests,
it works for them, it *should* work for you, if you use it
correctly.

-Chuck

 

[James Morrison]

On Sun, 2005-11-27 at 09:12 +0000, Robert Baer wrote:

I do understand that a number of people are lucky enough to have it
work - but both times i tried it, i could not add parts or delete parts.
I wasted a lot of time on each occasion downloading the progra, etc
and trying to do anything with it (besides waste time), and got nowhere.
That is why i excluded Eagle in my request.

That is too bad for you. I also use Eagle almost exclusively (the only
time I don't is when a customer really wants design done in something
else, but that is rare and I often convince them to use Eagle instead).

IMHO, the differentiating factors are:
1) cost
2) support -- for such a low price there is great support
3) running time -- the core of Eagle has been going long before there
was a GUI around it so the algorithms have been used for a very long
time but a lot of people. This means that if there was a bug in there
it is 99.9999% likely to have already been found. That is my biggest
concern with newer, low cost solutions--if its low cost then they
haven't done a ton of testing because testing is expensive and the price
would have to be higher. With Eagle this testing has been done (perhaps
by past users--but that's to my benefit now).

The help is complete but it presupposes that you already know the answer
so that is its one downfall. This has been expressed many times and
will hopefully be addressed soon. Some users have a done a couple of
things to try to form a stop gap.

I use Eagle on Windows and Linux and I"m excited that it now runs on
Mac. Although with their new x86 announcement that isn't the biggest
deal that it once was.

If you want send me your design files and I'll see what is up.
Obviously you can add and delete components so something isn't quite
right.

Cheers,

James.

 

[John Devereux]

Robert Baer <robertbaer@earthlink.net> writes:

Robert Baer wrote:

Do not mention Eagle, i wasted a lot of time on POTS to download
the demo version, and again, it was totally useless.
And i was unable to figure out what files wer needed to make the
DOS Orcad even run - so that is out.
PCB123 is out, because the manual is worse than obscene -
unreadable (Acrobat sez it is corrupted and cannot fix it).
So what is left?
1) I downloaded the Vutrax "readme" and loader; VTXsetup.exe bitches
about non-exiatant master files.
Ignore the fact that it was too dumb to *create* a folder, it
certainly is incomplete if it cannot create those master files or
"dial home" for them.
So, what do i do to get it installed (it should be simple and not
require a lot of jumping thru hoops)?

You have to download the "system modules" too.

<http://www.vutrax.co.uk/winsystem.htm>

This information is on the download pages of their web site.

However, I suggest you use something else. Vutrax does, I'm afraid,
have some hoops to be jumped through!

(I have nothing against Vutrax. I have been using it exclusively in
successive incarnations for 15 years. But it is not for the faint
hearted... If you are not able or not prepared to interpret the
download instructions, it seems to me that there is not much chance
you are going to put in the much larger effort that is required to
master the program itself.)



--

John Devereux

 

[PH]

Robert,

I know what you mean about the help file. It isn't very deep. Going
through the tutorial in the help file may help you get started.

When I am making schematic parts, I am usually in a hurry and don't try
to make the part look like a symbol, I just put down the number of pins
I need, name and number the pins, put a polyline rectangle around it to
give it form, and name the part. That only takes a couple of minutes,
and I can get on with the schematic.

If you wish to make a dual NPN that symbolically looks like two NPNs,
that should be fairly simple. Let me see if I can walk you through it.

1) Once I enter the Part Editor, I first selected the NPN_EBC part from
the Device library, and hit Copy beneath the Product column. In the
window that pops up, I enter my personal library, and the new product
name. After it is copied, I highlight my library and the new product
and hit Select.
2) You should see a single NPN on the screen. I then zoom out once or
twice by right clicking and hitting zoom out, just to make it easier to
work on. You'll find that a lot of things are done by right clicking,
which goes quickly once you get used to it.
3) Now left click and hold and draw a window around the part and
release. Select copy from the menu that pops up. Now right click and
select paste. Find a spot where you like the new copy and left click to
drop it.
4) Next you can edit the pins. Put the crosshairs on the pin and right
click and select modify. At the top of the screen you should see the
pin properties. Change those as you need and hit modify.
5) Since you only want one name and reference designator for the part,
right click on the ones you don't want and hit Cut, unless you didn't
copy those from the original in the first place.
6) That should get you a useable schematic symbol, so if you are done,
hit File and Save Product to save it.

Now, if you were making a new part from scratch, you would use the items
on the Object menu to place a pin or text or a polyline (that's the blue
lines). Modifying them works as above. Hope this helps.

PH

Robert Baer wrote:

Robert Baer wrote:

Do not mention Eagle, i wasted a lot of time on POTS to download the
demo version, and again, it was totally useless.
And i was unable to figure out what files wer needed to make the DOS
Orcad even run - so that is out.
PCB123 is out, because the manual is worse than obscene - unreadable
(Acrobat sez it is corrupted and cannot fix it).
So what is left?

1) I downloaded the Vutrax "readme" and loader; VTXsetup.exe bitches
about non-exiatant master files.
Ignore the fact that it was too dumb to *create* a folder, it
certainly is incomplete if it cannot create those master files or "dial
home" for them.
So, what do i do to get it installed (it should be simple and not
require a lot of jumping thru hoops)?

2) I downloaded and sucessfully installed WinQcad. Seems to be useable,
maybe.
I need to create a library (done) and add a dual NPN in a SOT-323
package (well, partly done).
The "part" has the schematic of two NPNs inside the box and oriented
properly so one (theoretically) could draw connections from each element
(E, B, C) to pins of the package, BUT...
I cannot add pins to the package, i cannot even number the element
(assign pin numbers), i cannot change the labels (E1, B1, C1, E2, B2, C2).
The help document is not eXplicit enough to be of any help.
It was hard enough to figure out how to *copy* an NPN over to the new
"part", and it was a PITA doing that, especially with no clue that
closing "new part", opening NPN part, copy, close, open new part, paste,
etc would not lose any old info - much less the hassle.
So, how do i make the darn "part" complete on the electronic dwg side?
And then, i presume more hassle on the dimensioninf side...

 

[Joerg]

Hello Chuck,

Perhaps at this point, you should ask Joerg how to add and
delete parts in Eagle. I would bet that he can clear up
your problem. Eagle is intensely popular among hobbiests,
it works for them, it *should* work for you, if you use it
correctly.

It's simple. Either you use the cross for deleting and the gate sign for
adding or do it via the menus. Since I am old fashioned and have a hard
time with pictograms and icons (ok, I admit it, I hate them...) here is
the classical way:

Edit -> Add (library window pops up to select what's added)
Edit -> Delete

That's pretty straight forward, I think.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[Robert Baer]

Chuck Harris wrote:

Robert Baer wrote:

Chuck Harris wrote:

Robert Baer wrote:


Like i said before, if one cannot add or delete a part, what use
is it?
If it worked / works for you, great.
It was worse than worthless for me.




Robert,

Computers are remarkably consistent in what they do, geographically.
If it
doesn't work for you, it is likely that you are using some strange
combination
of software and hardware. What operating system are you using, and
about how
old is your computer?

-Chuck


Lemme see now; i run different OSes, on different drives, and prefer
to use Win2000, and i have a P5-2200 (GenuineIntel x86 Family 15 Model
2 Stepping 7); 1Gbte RAM.


Hi Robert,

Ok, that sounds like it is within the range of what should work with
Eagle.

I presume that you are using a mouse, and not some strange game console to
do your point and select?

Also, did you read the instructions, and try the demo?

There has to be a clue here somewhere, as tens of thousands use the
program,
and find it useful.... and yet you cannot get it to do the simplest most
basic of commands.

-Chuck
I use a mouse and the demo did not work either.

I quit beating that dead horse after an hour of wasted time, so
forget it and help on the others if you can.

 

[Robert Baer]

James Morrison wrote:

On Sun, 2005-11-27 at 09:12 +0000, Robert Baer wrote:

I do understand that a number of people are lucky enough to have it
work - but both times i tried it, i could not add parts or delete parts.
I wasted a lot of time on each occasion downloading the progra, etc
and trying to do anything with it (besides waste time), and got nowhere.
That is why i excluded Eagle in my request.


That is too bad for you. I also use Eagle almost exclusively (the only
time I don't is when a customer really wants design done in something
else, but that is rare and I often convince them to use Eagle instead).

IMHO, the differentiating factors are:
1) cost
2) support -- for such a low price there is great support
3) running time -- the core of Eagle has been going long before there
was a GUI around it so the algorithms have been used for a very long
time but a lot of people. This means that if there was a bug in there
it is 99.9999% likely to have already been found. That is my biggest
concern with newer, low cost solutions--if its low cost then they
haven't done a ton of testing because testing is expensive and the price
would have to be higher. With Eagle this testing has been done (perhaps
by past users--but that's to my benefit now).

The help is complete but it presupposes that you already know the answer
so that is its one downfall. This has been expressed many times and
will hopefully be addressed soon. Some users have a done a couple of
things to try to form a stop gap.

I use Eagle on Windows and Linux and I"m excited that it now runs on
Mac. Although with their new x86 announcement that isn't the biggest
deal that it once was.

If you want send me your design files and I'll see what is up.
Obviously you can add and delete components so something isn't quite
right.

Cheers,

James.

No, i cannot add or delete parts; do not re-word what i stated

previously.
This was the second time out of the gate that Eagle demo did not
work, and as far as i am concerned, that is three times too many.
Now if someone was wwilling to *pay* me to waste my time f*ing around
with something that does not work, then it would have to be a *lot* of
money to pay my headshrink bills, as that would drive me nuts.

 

[Robert Baer]

John Devereux wrote:

Robert Baer <robertbaer@earthlink.net> writes:


Robert Baer wrote:


Do not mention Eagle, i wasted a lot of time on POTS to download
the demo version, and again, it was totally useless.
And i was unable to figure out what files wer needed to make the
DOS Orcad even run - so that is out.
PCB123 is out, because the manual is worse than obscene -
unreadable (Acrobat sez it is corrupted and cannot fix it).
So what is left?

1) I downloaded the Vutrax "readme" and loader; VTXsetup.exe bitches
about non-exiatant master files.
Ignore the fact that it was too dumb to *create* a folder, it
certainly is incomplete if it cannot create those master files or
"dial home" for them.
So, what do i do to get it installed (it should be simple and not
require a lot of jumping thru hoops)?


You have to download the "system modules" too.

http://www.vutrax.co.uk/winsystem.htm

This information is on the download pages of their web site.

However, I suggest you use something else. Vutrax does, I'm afraid,
have some hoops to be jumped through!

(I have nothing against Vutrax. I have been using it exclusively in
successive incarnations for 15 years. But it is not for the faint
hearted... If you are not able or not prepared to interpret the
download instructions, it seems to me that there is not much chance
you are going to put in the much larger effort that is required to
master the program itself.)



*Gack* !! over nine megs over POTS; a bit daunting, but at least it

is broken down.
Thanks.
Any other semi-hidden gotchas?
Like i said, why wasn't there a script that would do a full install
from scratch?

 

[Robert Baer]

PH wrote:

Robert,

I know what you mean about the help file. It isn't very deep. Going
through the tutorial in the help file may help you get started.

When I am making schematic parts, I am usually in a hurry and don't try
to make the part look like a symbol, I just put down the number of pins
I need, name and number the pins, put a polyline rectangle around it to
give it form, and name the part. That only takes a couple of minutes,
and I can get on with the schematic.

If you wish to make a dual NPN that symbolically looks like two NPNs,
that should be fairly simple. Let me see if I can walk you through it.

1) Once I enter the Part Editor, I first selected the NPN_EBC part from
the Device library, and hit Copy beneath the Product column. In the
window that pops up, I enter my personal library, and the new product
name. After it is copied, I highlight my library and the new product
and hit Select.
2) You should see a single NPN on the screen. I then zoom out once or
twice by right clicking and hitting zoom out, just to make it easier to
work on. You'll find that a lot of things are done by right clicking,
which goes quickly once you get used to it.
3) Now left click and hold and draw a window around the part and
release. Select copy from the menu that pops up. Now right click and
select paste. Find a spot where you like the new copy and left click to
drop it.
4) Next you can edit the pins. Put the crosshairs on the pin and right
click and select modify. At the top of the screen you should see the
pin properties. Change those as you need and hit modify.
...."edit the pins" is where i have the problem; new names and pin

numbers do not "stick". See what i said i would like (E1,B1,C1, etc) and
pin numbers as well (1...6).
That way, when i draw the schematic i can connect E2 to C1, B2 to V2,
etc.

5) Since you only want one name and reference designator for the part,
right click on the ones you don't want and hit Cut, unless you didn't
copy those from the original in the first place.
6) That should get you a useable schematic symbol, so if you are done,
hit File and Save Product to save it.
....i do not remember seeing File or Save in the editing,but did find

that every change i made was saved (automatically?) so that does not
make me concerned.

Now, if you were making a new part from scratch, you would use the items
on the Object menu to place a pin or text or a polyline (that's the blue
lines). Modifying them works as above. Hope this helps.
...did not get anywhere from scratch, so tried the copy schems which was

very sucessful.

....Will go back to WinQcad and try some more as you suggest.

PH

Robert Baer wrote:

Robert Baer wrote:

Do not mention Eagle, i wasted a lot of time on POTS to download
the demo version, and again, it was totally useless.
And i was unable to figure out what files wer needed to make the
DOS Orcad even run - so that is out.
PCB123 is out, because the manual is worse than obscene -
unreadable (Acrobat sez it is corrupted and cannot fix it).
So what is left?


1) I downloaded the Vutrax "readme" and loader; VTXsetup.exe bitches
about non-exiatant master files.
Ignore the fact that it was too dumb to *create* a folder, it
certainly is incomplete if it cannot create those master files or
"dial home" for them.
So, what do i do to get it installed (it should be simple and not
require a lot of jumping thru hoops)?

2) I downloaded and sucessfully installed WinQcad. Seems to be
useable, maybe.
I need to create a library (done) and add a dual NPN in a SOT-323
package (well, partly done).
The "part" has the schematic of two NPNs inside the box and oriented
properly so one (theoretically) could draw connections from each
element (E, B, C) to pins of the package, BUT...
I cannot add pins to the package, i cannot even number the element
(assign pin numbers), i cannot change the labels (E1, B1, C1, E2, B2,
C2).
The help document is not eXplicit enough to be of any help.
It was hard enough to figure out how to *copy* an NPN over to the
new "part", and it was a PITA doing that, especially with no clue that
closing "new part", opening NPN part, copy, close, open new part,
paste, etc would not lose any old info - much less the hassle.
So, how do i make the darn "part" complete on the electronic dwg side?
And then, i presume more hassle on the dimensioninf side...

 

[John Devereux]

Robert Baer <robertbaer@earthlink.net> writes:

John Devereux wrote:

Robert Baer <robertbaer@earthlink.net> writes:

Robert Baer wrote:


1) I downloaded the Vutrax "readme" and loader; VTXsetup.exe bitches
about non-exiatant master files.
Ignore the fact that it was too dumb to *create* a folder, it
certainly is incomplete if it cannot create those master files or
"dial home" for them.
So, what do i do to get it installed (it should be simple and not
require a lot of jumping thru hoops)?
You have to download the "system modules" too.
http://www.vutrax.co.uk/winsystem.htm

*Gack* !! over nine megs over POTS; a bit daunting, but at least it
is broken down.

You've not got broadband yet then... I just downloaded two 4.7GB DVDs
(ubuntu and knoppix linux)!

Seriously, I don't think that is a lot these days... ISTR e.g. the
xilinx web pack was several hundred MB. Vutrax is pretty compact and
efficient, probably because its pedigree dates from DOS days so it had
to be. (Although it has been windows-only for years now!)

Thanks.
Any other semi-hidden gotchas?

I imagine your main problem will be getting lost (both in the software
itself and in the documentation). Do the tutorials, look at the
supplied examples. I can help if you get stuck; the author hangs out
here too.

Like i said, why wasn't there a script that would do a full install
from scratch?

--

John Devereux

 

[PH]

I realized I was using a slightly older version, and that may have been
causing a bit of confusion.

I wonder if you are editting the pins in the schematic editor instead of
the part editor. That may be where you are getting stuck. When you
first fire up the program, click on PartEdit instead of SchEdit. Then,
the instructions I gave before should be largely correct. When you are
editting pins, you should see Pin, Electrical Type, Shape, Pin Name, and
Pin Number at the top of the screen. There are also check boxes for
showing the Pin Name and Pin Number. Changing the Pin Number from 3 to
4,for example, and hitting Modify should set the change.

Now, for what you want to do, you probably don't want to show the Pin
Name because that seems to be locked onto the pin and can't be moved
around, and would make for an ugly symbol. You can place text next to
the pin seperately by clicking on the Place Text command on the Object
Menu. Then enter your text and hit place and drop it next to the pin.
Anything you do to the part in the part editor makes a single 'entity',
so to speak, that you move as a whole in the schematic editor, so the
text you are placing will follow the part.

If this still doesn't get you going, perhaps you could send me a picture
of what you are doing.

PH

Robert Baer wrote:

PH wrote:

Robert,

I know what you mean about the help file. It isn't very deep. Going
through the tutorial in the help file may help you get started.

When I am making schematic parts, I am usually in a hurry and don't
try to make the part look like a symbol, I just put down the number of
pins I need, name and number the pins, put a polyline rectangle around
it to give it form, and name the part. That only takes a couple of
minutes, and I can get on with the schematic.

If you wish to make a dual NPN that symbolically looks like two NPNs,
that should be fairly simple. Let me see if I can walk you through it.

1) Once I enter the Part Editor, I first selected the NPN_EBC part
from the Device library, and hit Copy beneath the Product column. In
the window that pops up, I enter my personal library, and the new
product name. After it is copied, I highlight my library and the new
product and hit Select.
2) You should see a single NPN on the screen. I then zoom out once or
twice by right clicking and hitting zoom out, just to make it easier
to work on. You'll find that a lot of things are done by right
clicking, which goes quickly once you get used to it.
3) Now left click and hold and draw a window around the part and
release. Select copy from the menu that pops up. Now right click and
select paste. Find a spot where you like the new copy and left click
to drop it.
4) Next you can edit the pins. Put the crosshairs on the pin and
right click and select modify. At the top of the screen you should
see the pin properties. Change those as you need and hit modify.

..."edit the pins" is where i have the problem; new names and pin
numbers do not "stick". See what i said i would like (E1,B1,C1, etc) and
pin numbers as well (1...6).
That way, when i draw the schematic i can connect E2 to C1, B2 to V2,
etc.

5) Since you only want one name and reference designator for the part,
right click on the ones you don't want and hit Cut, unless you didn't
copy those from the original in the first place.
6) That should get you a useable schematic symbol, so if you are done,
hit File and Save Product to save it.

...i do not remember seeing File or Save in the editing,but did find
that every change i made was saved (automatically?) so that does not
make me concerned.


Now, if you were making a new part from scratch, you would use the
items on the Object menu to place a pin or text or a polyline (that's
the blue lines). Modifying them works as above. Hope this helps.

..did not get anywhere from scratch, so tried the copy schems which was
very sucessful.

...Will go back to WinQcad and try some more as you suggest.


PH

Robert Baer wrote:

Robert Baer wrote:

Do not mention Eagle, i wasted a lot of time on POTS to download
the demo version, and again, it was totally useless.
And i was unable to figure out what files wer needed to make the
DOS Orcad even run - so that is out.
PCB123 is out, because the manual is worse than obscene -
unreadable (Acrobat sez it is corrupted and cannot fix it).
So what is left?



1) I downloaded the Vutrax "readme" and loader; VTXsetup.exe bitches
about non-exiatant master files.
Ignore the fact that it was too dumb to *create* a folder, it
certainly is incomplete if it cannot create those master files or
"dial home" for them.
So, what do i do to get it installed (it should be simple and not
require a lot of jumping thru hoops)?

2) I downloaded and sucessfully installed WinQcad. Seems to be
useable, maybe.
I need to create a library (done) and add a dual NPN in a SOT-323
package (well, partly done).
The "part" has the schematic of two NPNs inside the box and
oriented properly so one (theoretically) could draw connections from
each element (E, B, C) to pins of the package, BUT...
I cannot add pins to the package, i cannot even number the element
(assign pin numbers), i cannot change the labels (E1, B1, C1, E2, B2,
C2).
The help document is not eXplicit enough to be of any help.
It was hard enough to figure out how to *copy* an NPN over to the
new "part", and it was a PITA doing that, especially with no clue
that closing "new part", opening NPN part, copy, close, open new
part, paste, etc would not lose any old info - much less the hassle.
So, how do i make the darn "part" complete on the electronic dwg side?
And then, i presume more hassle on the dimensioninf side...

 

[Robert Baer]

PH wrote:

I realized I was using a slightly older version, and that may have been
causing a bit of confusion.

I wonder if you are editting the pins in the schematic editor instead of
the part editor. That may be where you are getting stuck. When you
first fire up the program, click on PartEdit instead of SchEdit. Then,
the instructions I gave before should be largely correct. When you are
editting pins, you should see Pin, Electrical Type, Shape, Pin Name, and
Pin Number at the top of the screen. There are also check boxes for
showing the Pin Name and Pin Number. Changing the Pin Number from 3 to
4,for example, and hitting Modify should set the change.

Now, for what you want to do, you probably don't want to show the Pin
Name because that seems to be locked onto the pin and can't be moved
around, and would make for an ugly symbol. You can place text next to
the pin seperately by clicking on the Place Text command on the Object
Menu. Then enter your text and hit place and drop it next to the pin.
Anything you do to the part in the part editor makes a single 'entity',
so to speak, that you move as a whole in the schematic editor, so the
text you are placing will follow the part.

If this still doesn't get you going, perhaps you could send me a picture
of what you are doing.

PH
------------- SNIPped for brevity -------------

I was definitely in Part Edit, and the headings were as you mentioned.
I will just have to set aside some time to work some more at it; been
busy on making a quick and dirty HV regulator tester...

 

[Andy Peters]

Robert Baer wrote:

Do not mention Eagle, i wasted a lot of time on POTS to download the
demo version, and again, it was totally useless.
And i was unable to figure out what files wer needed to make the DOS
Orcad even run - so that is out.
PCB123 is out, because the manual is worse than obscene - unreadable
(Acrobat sez it is corrupted and cannot fix it).
So what is left?

This is probably not at all helpful, but I haven't found an inexpensive
PCB layout tool that's worth the money you pay for it.

I found Eagle to be very frustrating, but I suppose that's because the
user interface is completely kooky.

And, I guess my point is that once you're used to better tools --
Protel DXP or PCAD, to name two, and Mentor if you've got VC funding --
you find that the cheap tools don't do what you want them to do, or if
they do, then not as efficiently as more-expensive tools.

-a

 

[Ian Bell]

Andy Peters wrote:

And, I guess my point is that once you're used to better tools --
Protel DXP or PCAD, to name two, and Mentor if you've got VC funding --
you find that the cheap tools don't do what you want them to do, or if
they do, then not as efficiently as more-expensive tools.

I don't think this is entirely true. Some years ago we did an extensive
survey of EDA tools covering schematic capture, simulation and PCB layout.
We were not particularly financially restrained, believing it is worth
investing in the right tools. We look at a very wide range of products from
quite low cost up to Mentor and the like.

In the end after extensive tests we decided an a system at the Mentor
level/cost (I won't mention the name). It was a disaster. It was not at all
efficient. After much soul searching we sent it back and got something much
cheaper that was far more intuitive and cheap to run.

Ian

 

[John Devereux]

Ian Bell <ruffrecords@yahoo.com> writes:

Andy Peters wrote:

And, I guess my point is that once you're used to better tools --
Protel DXP or PCAD, to name two, and Mentor if you've got VC funding --
you find that the cheap tools don't do what you want them to do, or if
they do, then not as efficiently as more-expensive tools.



I don't think this is entirely true. Some years ago we did an extensive
survey of EDA tools covering schematic capture, simulation and PCB layout.
We were not particularly financially restrained, believing it is worth
investing in the right tools. We look at a very wide range of products from
quite low cost up to Mentor and the like.

In the end after extensive tests we decided an a system at the Mentor
level/cost (I won't mention the name). It was a disaster. It was not at all
efficient. After much soul searching we sent it back and got something much
cheaper that was far more intuitive and cheap to run.

And that was.....??? Come on, don't leave us in suspense!

--

John Devereux

 

[Genome]

"John Devereux" <jdREMOVE@THISdevereux.me.uk> wrote in message
news:87hd9sid9i.fsf@cordelia.devereux.me.uk...

Ian Bell <ruffrecords@yahoo.com> writes:


And that was.....??? Come on, don't leave us in suspense!

--

John Devereux

I have minimal experience of such things but.... Cadstar.

DNA

 

[Robert Baer]

Andy Peters wrote:

Robert Baer wrote:

Do not mention Eagle, i wasted a lot of time on POTS to download the
demo version, and again, it was totally useless.
And i was unable to figure out what files wer needed to make the DOS
Orcad even run - so that is out.
PCB123 is out, because the manual is worse than obscene - unreadable
(Acrobat sez it is corrupted and cannot fix it).
So what is left?


This is probably not at all helpful, but I haven't found an inexpensive
PCB layout tool that's worth the money you pay for it.

I found Eagle to be very frustrating, but I suppose that's because the
user interface is completely kooky.

And, I guess my point is that once you're used to better tools --
Protel DXP or PCAD, to name two, and Mentor if you've got VC funding --
you find that the cheap tools don't do what you want them to do, or if
they do, then not as efficiently as more-expensive tools.

-a

Actually, i liked Ivex WinBoard - took me only a few hours to make it

useful for a small project, and useage grew from there.
Finally bought a pin upgrade, and then another.
Made my own library to add parts not covered; liked the library
compiler/decompiler.
But it does not do SMT on both sides.
However, i do like that one does not have to have a schematic.