Need some help, what is percentage US voltages on 115V, 208V

Hi

I am working on a US variant on a small pump (below 75W)

But, I am unable to find the percentage of distribution of different US mains voltage

My guess is that most is 115V, but I have also heard about 208V (phase phase), and 240V (120V, 180 degrees phase inverted)

Any inputs of how much is 115V grid, how much 208, how much 240V?

Thanks

Klaus

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 2019-10-31 04:33, klaus.kragelund@gmail.com wrote:

Hi

I am working on a US variant on a small pump (below 75W)

But, I am unable to find the percentage of distribution of different US mains voltage

My guess is that most is 115V, but I have also heard about 208V (phase phase), and 240V (120V, 180 degrees phase inverted)

Any inputs of how much is 115V grid, how much 208, how much 240V?

Thanks

Klaus

Go with 120V single phase. Residential power here is mostly 2-phase, so
that you can have an electric stove or clothes dryer working on 240V.
Getting 208V requires a 3-phase service, which is common in commercial
installations but not elsewhere.

Round here, requiring three-phase power for a 75 W pump would get you a
bit of a reputation.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[Winfield Hill]

klaus.kragelund@gmail.com wrote...

I am working on a US variant on a small pump (below 75W)

As Phil says, go for the 115V version. Actually, most
of us get about 120 to 125V on our ac outlets. Most of
them have 15A breakers. Only a few in my house are 20A.
Although we have 230V (140 to 250V) in the house, it's
all tied up in dedicated electrician wiring, e.g., to
oven, HVAC, hot water, drier. That's why our cordless
kettles are 1.5kW, rather than 3kW like the rest of you.
My 8.5kW solar roof is 230V, has 34 250W microinverters.


--
Thanks,
- Win

 

[Piotr Wyderski]

Phil Hobbs wrote:

Getting 208V requires a 3-phase service, which is common in commercial
installations but not elsewhere.

Interesting, newer flats in Poland are customarily equipped with 3 phase
400VAC, with houses it has always (= including the Commie-dy Central
times) been like that, I believe.

Best regards, Piotr

 

[Whoey Louie]

On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 7:32:04 AM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:

On 2019-10-31 04:33, klaus.kragelund@gmail.com wrote:
Hi

I am working on a US variant on a small pump (below 75W)

But, I am unable to find the percentage of distribution of different US mains voltage

My guess is that most is 115V, but I have also heard about 208V (phase phase), and 240V (120V, 180 degrees phase inverted)

Any inputs of how much is 115V grid, how much 208, how much 240V?

Thanks

Klaus


Go with 120V single phase.

+1

That covers not only 99% of residential, but also most commercial,
industrial, etc, which would have it available too. Exceptions would
be something like a pump shack, where you might only have 240V or
3 phase, etc.

Residential power here is mostly 2-phase, so
that you can have an electric stove or clothes dryer working on 240V.
Getting 208V requires a 3-phase service, which is common in commercial
installations but not elsewhere.

Oh boy, has that lead to a lot of arguments. I agree with you, that it
in fact is two phases, one 180 out of phase with the other. But in the
trade it's called split-phase and most electrician types will argue all
day that it's not two phase, that two phase was 90 deg, etc, etc, etc.
It's called split-phase because it originates from one of the three primary
distribution phases. But once split, you do have two phases that are
180 out of phase, which is the same thing as opposite polarity.

Round here, requiring three-phase power for a 75 W pump would get you a
bit of a reputation.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[Whoey Louie]

On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 8:30:55 AM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:

klaus.kragelund@gmail.com wrote...

I am working on a US variant on a small pump (below 75W)

As Phil says, go for the 115V version.

Voltage in just about all of the US has been spec'd at 120V/240V not 115V/230V
for half a century or more.


Actually, most

of us get about 120 to 125V on our ac outlets. Most of
them have 15A breakers. Only a few in my house are 20A.
Although we have 230V (140 to 250V) in the house, it's
all tied up in dedicated electrician wiring, e.g., to
oven, HVAC, hot water, drier. That's why our cordless
kettles are 1.5kW, rather than 3kW like the rest of you.
My 8.5kW solar roof is 230V, has 34 250W microinverters.


--
Thanks,
- Win

 

Winfield Hill <winfieldhill@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:qper4u02nge@drn.newsguy.com:

DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote...

Doesn't anyone look at the power requisite placards
ALL AC powered consumer products have nowadays?

I have not seen "115V" listed since the fucking sixties!

They usually say something like 95 to 250V, not helpful.

Yes, the auto-switcher types do. I even had to make a server supply
that would go down to 85 Volts so that a user at the end of the line in
Japan would still get operation on a line that has drooped down to near
80 to 90 Volts.

 

[Winfield Hill]

DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote...

Doesn't anyone look at the power requisite placards
ALL AC powered consumer products have nowadays?

I have not seen "115V" listed since the fucking sixties!

They usually say something like 95 to 250V, not helpful.


--
Thanks,
- Win

 

Whoey Louie <trader4@optonline.net> wrote in
news:72626b8a-7882-4225-ae34-96a3343df54d@googlegroups.com:

On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 7:32:04 AM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs
wrote:
On 2019-10-31 04:33, klaus.kragelund@gmail.com wrote:
Hi

I am working on a US variant on a small pump (below 75W)

But, I am unable to find the percentage of distribution of
different US mains voltage

My guess is that most is 115V, but I have also heard about 208V
(phase phase), and 240V (120V, 180 degrees phase inverted)

Any inputs of how much is 115V grid, how much 208, how much
240V?

Thanks

Klaus


Go with 120V single phase.

+1

That covers not only 99% of residential, but also most commercial,
industrial, etc, which would have it available too. Exceptions
would be something like a pump shack, where you might only have
240V or 3 phase, etc.




Residential power here is mostly 2-phase, so
that you can have an electric stove or clothes dryer working on
240V. Getting 208V requires a 3-phase service, which is common in
commercial installations but not elsewhere.

Oh boy, has that lead to a lot of arguments. I agree with you,
that it in fact is two phases, one 180 out of phase with the
other. But in the trade it's called split-phase and most
electrician types will argue all day that it's not two phase, that
two phase was 90 deg, etc, etc, etc. It's called split-phase
because it originates from one of the three primary distribution
phases. But once split, you do have two phases that are 180 out
of phase, which is the same thing as opposite polarity.



Round here, requiring three-phase power for a 75 W pump would get
you a bit of a reputation.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

Pump shacks have standard wall outlets as well. They don't just
wire up the pumps and work in a dark room.

 

Whoey Louie <trader4@optonline.net> wrote in
news:0702f0a1-5074-4de8-8c42-b7e7a446aa91@googlegroups.com:

On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 8:30:55 AM UTC-4, Winfield Hill
wrote:
klaus.kragelund@gmail.com wrote...

I am working on a US variant on a small pump (below 75W)

As Phil says, go for the 115V version.

Voltage in just about all of the US has been spec'd at 120V/240V
not 115V/230V for half a century or more.


Actually, most
of us get about 120 to 125V on our ac outlets. Most of
them have 15A breakers. Only a few in my house are 20A.
Although we have 230V (140 to 250V) in the house, it's
all tied up in dedicated electrician wiring, e.g., to
oven, HVAC, hot water, drier. That's why our cordless
kettles are 1.5kW, rather than 3kW like the rest of you.
My 8.5kW solar roof is 230V, has 34 250W microinverters.


--
Thanks,
- Win

Doesn't anyone look at the power requisite placards ALL AC powered
consumer products have nowadays?

I have not seen "115V" listed since the fucking sixties!

 

[Piotr Wyderski]

Whoey Louie wrote:

Voltage in just about all of the US has been spec'd at 120V/240V not 115V/230V
for half a century or more.

And what's the allowed range? In Poland it is 230V +6%/-10%, in the EU I
think 230V +/- 10%.

Best regards, Piotr

 

[Rick C]

On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 11:03:00 AM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

torsdag den 31. oktober 2019 kl. 15.47.57 UTC+1 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
On Thu, 31 Oct 2019 13:43:30 +0100, Piotr Wyderski
peter.pan@neverland.mil> wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:

Getting 208V requires a 3-phase service, which is common in commercial
installations but not elsewhere.

Interesting, newer flats in Poland are customarily equipped with 3 phase
400VAC, with houses it has always (= including the Commie-dy Central
times) been like that, I believe.

Best regards, Piotr

400 line to neutral? Even line-line, that is a lot of volts. Are there
step-down transformers before outlets?

230V phase to neutral, 400V phase to phase


Where would people buy gadgets that run off 400?


water heaters, AC, welders, bigger stationary power tools

Do residential water heaters actually run on three phase? That would require three heating elements rather than one. Or do they actually make a three phase heating element?

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 8:43:35 AM UTC-4, Piotr Wyderski wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:

Getting 208V requires a 3-phase service, which is common in commercial
installations but not elsewhere.

Interesting, newer flats in Poland are customarily equipped with 3 phase
400VAC, with houses it has always (= including the Commie-dy Central
times) been like that, I believe.

Best regards, Piotr

How do you get 240 volts to run appliances? Or do they make yet another voltage capable set of devices?

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 4:33:20 AM UTC-4, klaus.k...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi

I am working on a US variant on a small pump (below 75W)

But, I am unable to find the percentage of distribution of different US mains voltage

My guess is that most is 115V, but I have also heard about 208V (phase phase), and 240V (120V, 180 degrees phase inverted)

Any inputs of how much is 115V grid, how much 208, how much 240V?

BTW, not sure what you think is going on with the voltages when you call it "115V grid". The power to residences is 240 volts, split phase meaning neutral is grounded with each of the two "hot" wires of opposite polarity at 120 V. So in the house outlets are typically 120 volts. Commercial facilities can be fed with 240 volts, but often are 3 phase with 208 volts between the legs.

To me "grid" refers to the high voltage power lines.

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 4:33:20 AM UTC-4, klaus.k...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi

I am working on a US variant on a small pump (below 75W)

But, I am unable to find the percentage of distribution of different US mains voltage

My guess is that most is 115V, but I have also heard about 208V (phase phase), and 240V (120V, 180 degrees phase inverted)

Any inputs of how much is 115V grid, how much 208, how much 240V?

A large percentage of commercial installations are 208 volts rather than 240. I charge my car at level 2 chargers in lots of locations and some 90% of them are 208 volts (give or take) rather than 240. Instead of getting 7 kW charging rate, I usually see 6 or below because of the voltage.

I know I have seen some chargers at 240 volts, but I can't remember a single one.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

On Thu, 31 Oct 2019 13:43:30 +0100, Piotr Wyderski
<peter.pan@neverland.mil> wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:

Getting 208V requires a 3-phase service, which is common in commercial
installations but not elsewhere.

Interesting, newer flats in Poland are customarily equipped with 3 phase
400VAC, with houses it has always (= including the Commie-dy Central
times) been like that, I believe.

Best regards, Piotr

400 line to neutral? Even line-line, that is a lot of volts. Are there
step-down transformers before outlets?

Where would people buy gadgets that run off 400?




--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

 

On Thu, 31 Oct 2019 07:31:52 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 2019-10-31 04:33, klaus.kragelund@gmail.com wrote:
Hi

I am working on a US variant on a small pump (below 75W)

But, I am unable to find the percentage of distribution of different US mains voltage

My guess is that most is 115V, but I have also heard about 208V (phase phase), and 240V (120V, 180 degrees phase inverted)

Any inputs of how much is 115V grid, how much 208, how much 240V?

Thanks

Klaus


Go with 120V single phase. Residential power here is mostly 2-phase, so
that you can have an electric stove or clothes dryer working on 240V.
Getting 208V requires a 3-phase service, which is common in commercial
installations but not elsewhere.

Residential/Commercial/industrial sites always have 120 available,
usually close to actual 120 volts. The 3-phase connections are
various. 120 3-phase wye is 208 l-l, and the 120/240 "stinger"
single-phase version is 240 l-l, with neutral being the ct of one l-l
pair.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

 

[Piotr Wyderski]

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

> 400 line to neutral? Even line-line, that is a lot of volts.

400V line to line, 230V line to neutral, 120 degrees phase shift.

> Are there step-down transformers before outlets?

Not really, however the 400V equipment uses much more robust
plugs/outlets or is directly wired, without the plug.

https://image.ceneostatic.pl/data/products/17640163/f-pce-32a-5p-wtyczka-trojfazowa-pce.jpg

If it looks big and heavy, that's because it is.

> Where would people buy gadgets that run off 400?

Actually, there are many of them. Stoves and furnaces, water heaters,
agricultural equipment. Some of them are truly 3-phase, some of them
are 3 independent 1-phase units in a single enclosure, designed that way
in order not to overload the sinlge phase wiring.

Best regards, Piotr

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christense]

torsdag den 31. oktober 2019 kl. 15.47.57 UTC+1 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:

On Thu, 31 Oct 2019 13:43:30 +0100, Piotr Wyderski
peter.pan@neverland.mil> wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:

Getting 208V requires a 3-phase service, which is common in commercial
installations but not elsewhere.

Interesting, newer flats in Poland are customarily equipped with 3 phase
400VAC, with houses it has always (= including the Commie-dy Central
times) been like that, I believe.

Best regards, Piotr

400 line to neutral? Even line-line, that is a lot of volts. Are there
step-down transformers before outlets?

230V phase to neutral, 400V phase to phase

Where would people buy gadgets that run off 400?

water heaters, AC, welders, bigger stationary power tools

 

[Piotr Wyderski]

Rick C wrote:

> So the current is very limited on this 400 volt power?

It is limited by the agreement with the power company. They install a
sufficiently rated fuse at the entry. This is stupid, BTW, but it is
that way.

> With US heaters they get some 4500 to 5500 watts from a 240 volt line.

4500W is equivalent to two electric kettles. Not exactly our
understanding of a heater.

There are devices that consume 10kW or more. Induction stoves with 11kW
rating are not uncommon.

> We commonly use up to 40 amps or 9.6 kW for various appliances in the house (mostly the stove).

Our mains fuses are typically 16A (outlets) and 6A (lighting). There are
also bigger, of course, but they are reserved for special places like
the kitchen or the heater compartment.

> It's hard to imagine a need for three phase power in any appliances.

For me it is pretty usual. In return, it is hard to imagine a 120V-only
system.
Your wires must run red-hot. But somehow you manage to live

What wattages are used in residences there that require three phase
power?

10kW+ devices are not uncommon. As said, water heating, AC, agricultural
tools, wood saws, welding machines, etc.

Best regrds, Piotr