MessageView 421F schematic

[Michael A. Terrell]

Jerry wrote:

Have a few more days left for our auction of HRO-500 mint manuals
(original!).
See "jerrymyr" auctions on eBay.
Thank you!

Will be listing mint, never used HRO-500 parts soon.

Thanks

Jerry

Don't support spammers. Downlaod it for free at:

http://bama.sbc.edu/national.htm along with 90+ other national
manuals.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[JeffM]

Jerry wrote:

Will be listing mint, never used HRO-500 parts soon.

Don't do that. This is NOT a forsale group.

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics/msg/13651a897337a7a9?q=Charters+misc.industry.electronics.marketplace+Discussions+Advertisement-*-*+only-advertise+sci.electronics.equipment-Test-lab-*-*-*-*+already.available.solutions+the.rec.hierarchy+*.*.not.a.forsale.group+zz-zz+Discussion

 

[Max65]

Hi Jeremy,
I never used a LIA indeed, but I guess you have to do as follows:
1) Remove any weight from the strain gage
2) Adjust the LIA phase control for the maximum output (this allows
the LIA to amplify anything at its input, the inchoerent noise doesn't
matter at this point because its average is supposed to be zero)
3) Adjust the LIA offset control to zero the output.
4) Increase the LIA sensitivity until the output overload.
5) Adjust the LIA phase control for the minimum output.
6) Repeat steps from 3 to 5 until you reach the desired noise
rejection and sensitivity.

It should work.

Let me know.

Massimo

 

[jeremy]

why do i only seem to get answers from people with no experience?
I have already done the obvious steps you suggest,
except #5 which is simply wrong.
you appear not to comprehend the problem in any case.
i think the experts who would know the answer, dont waste their time on
sci.electronics....
thanks (ha) for your 'help' in any case

On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:09:49 +0200, Max65 <mporzio@tele2.it> wrote:

Hi Jeremy,
I never used a LIA indeed, but I guess you have to do as follows:
1) Remove any weight from the strain gage
2) Adjust the LIA phase control for the maximum output (this allows
the LIA to amplify anything at its input, the inchoerent noise doesn't
matter at this point because its average is supposed to be zero)
3) Adjust the LIA offset control to zero the output.
4) Increase the LIA sensitivity until the output overload.
5) Adjust the LIA phase control for the minimum output.
6) Repeat steps from 3 to 5 until you reach the desired noise
rejection and sensitivity.

It should work.

Let me know.

Massimo

--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

 

[Martin Farrell]

jeremy wrote

why do i only seem to get answers from people with no experience?
I have already done the obvious steps you suggest,
except #5 which is simply wrong.
you appear not to comprehend the problem in any case.
i think the experts who would know the answer, dont waste their time on
sci.electronics....
thanks (ha) for your 'help' in any case

Try to be polite Jeremy - it doesn't cost anything and you'll find
people will continue to answer you.

LIAs are used to extract signals from uncorrelated noise. The trouble in
this case is that your 5mV (noise) signal is not distinguishable from
your wanted signal. You are throwing away the dynamic range of the LIA
to no effect. It doesn't make much sense to amplify the offset and
signal and then subtract the offset.
It would be sensible to balance your bridge first to reduce the required
DR as you suggest. You will then be able to increase the sensitivity of
the LIA without overloading the detector. The expand function is simply
another amplifier after the detector which will be useless if the
detector is already saturated by the 5mV offset.

The use of AC excitation is useful where the signals are extremely small
and environmental and 1/F noise is a problem or where you have galvanic
or electrochemical activity in the bridge. Signals below 10nV fall into
this category and then the synchronous detection of the LIA will move
your correlated wanted signal away from the uncorrelated reciprocal
noise of the amplifier.

DC excitation and a simple 24bit sigma delta ADC will generally suffice
strain gauges for resolutions of 20nV and above.


--
Martin

 

[Max65]

As I formerly said, I never used one LIA.
My suggestions were done thinking that the LIA phase adjustment worked
to fine-tune the rejection of the non coherent signal at the intput,
and I also supposed that the LIA offset adjust really worked at the
input voiding the 5mV transducer unbalanced signal.
Just this.

Be sure, your help resquests will never be considered by me in future.

Just for your information, I hold a patent in the USA (regarding
defence and law enforcement), and I'm Italian. Believe me, it's not so
easy for EC citizens to get USPTO patents. I'm not a stupid, I just
tried to give you an help, explaining you that I never had a LIA in my
hands.
I'm sure the day I'll need to use a LIA, when I have it in my own
hands, I use it with success without need the help of anyone.
Bye.
Massimo

 

[Eeyore]

JeffM wrote:

lowtronic@ googlemail.com wrote:
I am completely new to Groups,
Nick

Obviously.
Quit spewing and learn how to post to Usenet properly.

How about YOU quit being a whiney shitbag ?

There was NOTHING wrong with his post at all.

Graham

 

[JeffM]

lowtronic@ googlemail.com wrote:

I am completely new to Groups,
Nick

Obviously.
Quit spewing and learn how to post to Usenet properly.
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:qHhBKJ-sXKYJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-post+adequately.answered+corrected+with.commas+individually+Disclaimers+*-*-*-marked-as-Read-in-ALL-*-groups+Newsgroups.line
http://www.google.com/search?q=cacheFH89fVLaNUJ:www.smfr.org/mtnw/docs/Usenet.html+Copyright+respect.others.rights+cross.post+Last.changed+annoys+don't-post-separate-copies-*-*-*-to-each-group+Lurk-*-*-*

 

[JeffM]

lowtronic@ googlemail.com wrote:

I am completely new to Groups,
Nick

JeffM wrote:
Obviously.
Quit spewing and learn how to post to Usenet properly.

Eeyore wrote:
How about YOU quit being a whiney shitbag ?
There was NOTHING wrong with his post at all.

Obviously you haven't seen the other 41 places
it has been multi-posted.

 

[Eeyore]

JeffM wrote:

lowtronic@ googlemail.com wrote:
I am completely new to Groups,
Nick

JeffM wrote:
Obviously.
Quit spewing and learn how to post to Usenet properly.

Eeyore wrote:
How about YOU quit being a whiney shitbag ?
There was NOTHING wrong with his post at all.

Obviously you haven't seen the other 41 places
it has been multi-posted.

No I haven't seen it in *41* places actually.

Why didn't you simply explain why cros-posting is better in this cae and
ask him to do that next time he has a question that's relevant to
several groups ?

Graham

 

[JeffM]

Quit spewing and learn how to post to Usenet properly.

Eeyore wrote:
There was NOTHING wrong with his post at all.

JeffM wrote:
Obviously you haven't seen the other 41 places
it has been multi-posted.

Eeyore wrote:
No I haven't seen it in *41* places actually.

Why didn't you simply explain why cros-posting is better

You ASSuME that I didn't--or do you think I should have done that

in ALL of the "42" groups where he spewed this?

 

[Dribbel]

On Jan 15, 4:59 pm, Dribbel <nap.van.zuu...@pandora.be> wrote:

On Dec 5 2007, 1:11 pm, JW <n...@dev.null> wrote:





Hello all,

I have just finished repairing a Rohde & Schwarz URV5 Millivolt meter that
had two problems. The first was that it was blowing fuses - this turned
out to be a shorted 1000uF bulk capacitor in the power supply. But, after
the repair it now gets a E051 on power up. Lacking any service or
operating manual, I shot-gunned the unit by swapping the CPU board, then
the few socketed chips located on the CPU board between a running unit I
had, and this one. This allowed me to localize the problem to the 2kx8
52B13 EEPROM located in socket D8. I'm guessing that it might have become
corrupted when the cap shorted. Anyway, I then read the contents of the
good device and programmed the "bad" one successfully. Now it seems to
power up OK, with no error codes. Can anyone with a service/operating
manual tell me if the calibration data is stored in this device? I'd
rather not have to send the unit out for calibration unless I need to.

Thanks!

Apparently you can order the required docs. (in english) viahttp://www.alte-messtechnik.de/shop/rus.php

Greetings, Nap - Gent - Belgium- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Added info:

If you are quick, you can react for the manual Service und C/
Kalibration:
http://cgi.ebay.at/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260202977878&ssPageName=MERCOSI_VI_ROSI_PR4_PCN_BIX&refitem=260179250218&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=closed_view_item&refwidgettype=osi_widget
apparently in english and german

On the probes URV5-Z1, URV5-Z7, URV5-Z2 and URV5-Z4:
http://www.ko4bb.com/ham_radio/Manuals/Rohde_And_Schwarz/R&S_URV5-Z1_Z2_Z4_Z7.pdf
The second part is in english.

Greetings, Nap - Gent - Belgium

 

[Jim Yanik]

"robb" <some@where.on.net> wrote in
news:13qepm0ch1nti23@corp.supernews.com:

I changed the CRT HV anode wire on TEK o'scope by ...
- removing the silicon glued cover/cap
- desolder old anode lead
- clean silicon
- solder new anode lead
- re-silicon the lead cover/cap

Now ? is there any test i should perform to make sure i did the
job correctly/well ?
Like checking for corona leaks or any other such matters ?

Best method to do these tests

Also i noticed the Aquadag coating on the good CRT is alot more
uneven (bumpy) is there anything that should be done with the
Aquadag ?

Any useful ideas and help appreciated.
robb

I'd allow a sufficient time for the silicone to cure FULLY.
Otherwise,it becomes a leakage path.

Better to wait too long than too little.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

[b]

On Feb 5, 5:16 pm, "robb" <s...@where.on.net> wrote:

I have a 94' DEC 21" computer monitor that may have had 2 years
of actuall use on it.

some component died inside but i think the CRT is OK >? it
looked great just before the caput.
the CRT seems very high quality, flat, black, anti-glare coating,
i believe it uses trinitron technology as it has the 2 aperature
wires at the middle thirds of the screen.

Are there any projects people use these for or usually just trash
them ?

robb

i picked my sony E200 trinitron from the street and after a few popped
electrolytic caps were replaced it is still working now (1 year on).
no way i'd get an LCD.

-B

 

[Baron]

Arfa Daily wrote:

The metal shaft of a screwdriver with a plastic handle, held in your
hand, will draw a good arc from a high voltage supply, without you
feeling a thing. In the good old days of valve (tube) only TV sets, it
was a standard test to pull an arc from the top caps of the boost
rectifier and HOP valves. Also, from the cap of a DY87 or the wires of
an EY86 HV rectifier valve.

Trust me ! No dangerous suggestions from this quarter, ever ...

Arfa

This reminds me of an incident many years ago in a TV repair shop.
Several of the engineers had been feeding a mouse and it had become
quite tame, running down the back of the benchtop. Anyway one day
someone managed to zap it with a loose anode cap lead. I'de never seen
a mouse glow blue before.

--
Regards:
Baron.

 

[Sal Video]

Reading that made me resolve never to go back to that place again. As much
as I hate the fact that Best Buy will soon be a monopoly, I'll boycott "the
City".

"BilgeKhan" <perryneheum@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:901b838b-21dc-42bc-b407-8844141982ec@k2g2000hse.googlegroups.com...

The company that FIRED 3,400 employees last year -- because they made
too much money(!) -- now wants their former customers to come back!
Like all is forgiven or something.

Can you believe it!

WHY would you or anyone trust a store chain that purposely went
against the American grain that has always encouraged the maxim that
"Hard work and loyalty leads to good pay?"

And yet, after letting 3,400 experienced, loyal people go, Circuit
City gave a bunch of its "executives" MILLION-DOLLAR bonuses to stay
on until the company can right itself amid falling sales and a failing
business plan.

Circuit City belongs in a Third World country that's ruled by
dictators. Like Myanmar, for example.
-------------------

"Circuit City Calls a Rollout"

"CEO Gambling on New Stores"

By Ylan Q. Mui
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, February 7, 2008; D01



RICHMOND, Feb. 6 -- Circuit City chief executive Philip Schoonover is
hoping he can make more out of less in the latest attempt to turn
around the big-box chain.

The nation's second-largest consumer electronics retailer plans to
open 50 to 60 stores this coming fiscal year in a new, smaller format
that it calls simply the City. They'll be staffed with Generation Y
employees carrying computer tablets ready to look up stats on any
product in the company. Shelves have been cleared of merchandise with
ho-hum sales to focus on blockbuster sellers. Computers, cameras and
video games are all hooked up and ready for hands-on testing.

The staff recites such mottoes as "Keep it real" and holds twice-daily
rituals of "shameless self-recognition." Employees wear uniforms of
black T-shirts and jeans straight out of Steve Jobs's closet.

The City is a window into the kind of company Circuit City hopes to
become -- as innovative as the genius bar at Apple stores and as
convenient as the drive-through pharmacy at CVS. One day, Schoonover
imagined, Circuit City's tech-help team, Firedog, may even be its
biggest business, with retail on the sidelines.

But such visions remain far from the brutal reality. Once known for
its customer service, Circuit City slashed its workforce by 3,400 last
year and squeezed out $150 million in general expenses. So far this
fiscal year, it has lost more than $300 million, and its stock price
dropped to $3.60 last month, the lowest since the early 1990s and down
from a 52-week high of $22.02.

Investors are getting antsy, and Wall Street has begun wondering
whether the company should put itself on the auction block.

"This proved to be a disastrous cocktail," said Daniel Binder, an
analyst with Jeffries & Co. "The gap with [chief competitor] Best
Buy has widened considerably in every way, and closing it will take
time, if it is even possible at this point."

The rollout of the City -- and its success or failure -- will be a
crucial test of the company's plan to win back shoppers following a
sharp drop in the price of flat-panel TVs during the 2006 holiday
season that eroded its profit margins.

"The television business permanently changed," Schoonover said. "For
us, it meant a real challenge to our business model."

Circuit City acknowledges that the past year has been dismal. But
Schoonover and other top executives say they have also seen glimmers
of hope. Online sales and revenue from Firedog are growing by double
digits. Prototypes of the City stores, which are about 20,000 square
feet, generated as much money as traditional stores of 30,000 square
feet or more, with lower costs and a higher profit percentage.

In an interview Wednesday in a sunny vendor meeting room at
headquarters here, Schoonover said the company stumbled because it
tried to force too much change too quickly.

"I think we had a good plan," he said. "I think it took longer than we
expected."

Schoonover has instituted sweeping reforms following the bloodbath of
2006. One of the most controversial moves was firing of 3,400
employees last year who the retailer determined were paid too much,
while the company awarded retention bonuses to top executives several
months later. The firings depressed morale, and the company was unable
to recover before the crucial holiday shopping season. Schoonover said
yesterday the cuts were necessary to save money.

Meanwhile, Circuit City revamped the way its remaining 40,000 workers
performed their jobs. It introduced new procedures for everything from
pricing merchandise to unloading trucks. Rather than specializing in
one department, the company retrained employees to work in multiple
zones. It slashed $150 million from general expenses through
outsourcing parts of its information technology department and
eliminating layers of bureaucracy, and it expects to save another $200
million next year. It also continued to open stores and began
tinkering with new concepts, such as the City.

The change was overwhelming. The new procedures confused workers who
then failed to sell customers on the accessories and services that
would have helped boost sales. The company also missed key trends,
such as smaller flat-panel TVs, as it focused on operations.

"Frankly, this is just a massive amount of change," Schoonover said.
"In the midst of this, timing, pace, cadence -- that became our
challenge. How much can one company digest?"

Customers have noticed. At the Circuit City in Baileys Crossroads this
week, Luke Wahlgren browsed the store's selection of DVDs. The 19-year-
old from Great Falls shops the retailer about once a month, mainly to
check out new releases in entertainment. But for important purchases,
he said he heads to Best Buy.

He recently searched for speakers for his Jeep, for example. He tried
Circuit City but said the offerings were "sub-par." Wahlgren ended up
buying subwoofers a month ago at Best Buy.

"I prefer Best Buy," he said. "It just seems that Circuit City doesn't
have as many conveniences."

It remains to be seen how long investors will wait for Schoonover's
reforms to take hold. Mark J. Wattles, who owns the private Ultimate
Electronics retail chain and has a 6.5 percent stake in Circuit City,
said he is interested in changing top management at the retailer,
merging it with another company or perhaps even taking control of it
himself, according to a filing with the Securities and Exchange
Commission.

Circuit City has rejected two buyout attempts in recent years -- one
by Mexican billionaire Carlos Slim Helu in 2003 and another from
Boston hedge fund Highfields Capital Management in 2005. Analysts have
begun pointedly asking management about seeking similar "strategic
alternatives."

"People just don't have a lot of patience with them right now," said
Stephen Baker, vice president of industry analysis for consumer
research firm NPD Group. "They really have to find a way to right that
ship as fast as possible."

(Staff researcher Richard S. Drezen contributed to this report.)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/06/AR2008020604422.html

 

[Jim Yanik]

"robb" <some@where.on.net> wrote in
news:13qma34qvgsf357@corp.supernews.com:

Silicon cured, CRT installed and tested.

Sorry no fireworks or shooting flames

thanks to Arfa, Jim, James, Sjouke etc...for the help.

Installed the new CRT and watched for all the symptoms and signs
people mentioned in the (sci.electronic.$$$$$) groups

No HV problems. But now the scope needs display adjusting to
suit the new CRT.

It needs a complete calibration,not just a "display" adjust.
Adjusting vertical and horizontal gains affects freq.response.

Problems:
==========
The display is skewed and the intensity and focus are off.

trace rotation,geometry and astigmatism adjusts.

I was not expecting te new CRT to have hyper-intensity troubles.
That is... from no visible trace to oversaturated CRT brightness
is a very small range of knob motion maybe a 1/4-1/3 of he full
turn .

That doesn't sound very good. That CRT may NOT be a usable replacement.

What model scope,and what CRT part numbers,old and new?

And the focus is very sensitive, touch sensitive ? was not
before.

And the internal probe calibration signal (.5 V @ 1 kHz) produces
a trace with fuzzy band for peaks ( 20 - 30 mV) or so wide. This
was not the case before maybe more like (5 mV ripple before CRT
swap)

So hopefully i can sort these problems out.

thanks for all the safety advice,
robb

--

Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

[Jim Yanik]

"Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in
news:CO%qj.6412$zg.4275@newsfe5-win.ntli.net:

"robb" <some@where.on.net> wrote in message
news:13qoip0fdq0muc3@corp.supernews.com...

"Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:MvVqj.4991$nG4.2323@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...

"robb" <some@where.on.net> wrote in message
news:13qma34qvgsf357@corp.supernews.com...
Silicon cured, CRT installed and tested.
Sorry no fireworks or shooting flames

Problems:
==========
The display is skewed and the intensity and focus are off.
I was not expecting te new CRT to have hyper-intensity
troubles.
That is... from no visible trace to oversaturated CRT
brightness
is a very small range of knob motion maybe a 1/4-1/3 of he
full
turn .
And the focus is very sensitive, touch sensitive ? was not
before.

It sounds to me like this replacement CRT might not be quite as
'compatible'
as you had hoped ... :-( Maybe that's part of the reason that
the PDA lead
was not long enough to fit in your chassis i.e. to stop such a
substitution
taking place. As far as the trace being 'skewed' do you mean
that it is not
perfectly horizontal, or that it is trapezoidally distorted ?
If the former,
then most decent 'scopes have a trace rotation control
somewhere. As far as
the brightness / focus issues go, that is likely to be quite
difficult to
resolve, and will probably require changes to be made to the
component
values in the resistor chains providing the biasing voltages to
the various
electrodes. I would suggest that you will not get too far with
that, without
having schematics for both the 'scope that you've put the tube
in, and the
one that it came out of, so that you can make comparisons of
values and
expected voltages. Just as a matter of interest, are the quoted
deflection
sensitivities for both tubes the same ?

Good luck with it - I think you'ree going to need it, but it's
nice to see
that a sense of experimentation still exists out there - it's
the sort of
thing that I would have been playing with 30 years ago ...


Hello Arfa,
It is a Tek scope.
There are lots of pots for adjusting the CRT params.

The CRT was replaced with its **reverse** compatible replacement
P/N.

That is, typically one replaces the earlier model CRT with the
newer model and i have done the reverse. I replaced the newer
model with the earlier model. Unless it was a "one way
compatibility" then technically it should work.

The HV lead was longer in newer models because of physical change
to the Flyback/HV multiplier transformer and orientation. The
earlier model machines had an HV Jack on an 3" HV lead coming off
the Flyback the newer models have te HV Jack on the Flyback
directly.

So you need just 1" (2.5 cm) more HV lead to make it there.

Hopefully i can cure problems with the adjustments, as I do not
really want to modify the original PCB /schematic values.

Thanks for help and ideas Arfa,
robb

Hmmmm. Sometimes, compatible substitution *is* a one-way street. If
the parameters of the two tubes were sufficiently similar, I would not
have expected there to be a huge difference in the external setups, or
for the operation of the user controls to become 'bunched' as you
described. There are a couple of Tek 'scope experts who pop up on here
from time to time who would be much better qualified to advise you on
the specifics of your problems than I, so hopefully one of them will
dive in to help you shortly !

Arfa

it would help if he said WHAT MODEL Tek scope,and maybe the part numbers of
both CRTs.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

[robb]

"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in message
news:Xns9A3E7F2E59329jyanikkuanet@64.209.0.84...

it would help if he said WHAT MODEL Tek scope,and maybe the
part numbers of
both CRTs.
--
Jim Yanik

Hi Jim,

apologies , i thought i had already mentioned model and P/N.
I know you are just trying to help and i am making it difficult.

The scope is a Tek 2232.
The bad CRT with P/N: 154-0861-10.
The replacement CRT has P/N 154-0861-00 .

I still in process of completing the suggestions/advice you made
earlier with astig/geom/gain etc.
i planned to revise the operation ststus when completed.
thanks for your help Jim,
robb

 

[Jim Yanik]

"robb" <some@where.on.net> wrote in
news:13qp7o0bmnv93c1@corp.supernews.com:

"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in message
news:Xns9A3E7F2E59329jyanikkuanet@64.209.0.84...

it would help if he said WHAT MODEL Tek scope,and maybe the
part numbers of
both CRTs.
--
Jim Yanik

Hi Jim,

apologies , i thought i had already mentioned model and P/N.
I know you are just trying to help and i am making it difficult.

The scope is a Tek 2232.
The bad CRT with P/N: 154-0861-10.
The replacement CRT has P/N 154-0861-00 .

I still in process of completing the suggestions/advice you made
earlier with astig/geom/gain etc.
i planned to revise the operation ststus when completed.
thanks for your help Jim,
robb

IMO,the 861-00 should work in place of the -10.

Of course,you may have a problem with the new -10 tube.

Don't overlook the CRT socket itself;a bad connection on one pin could
cause what you are seeing.Even a pin-corrosion problem on the CRT pins
could be the problem;TEK used to make an abrasive-rubber CRT pin
cleaner,it's material similar to a Kratex polishing burr.
The pin cleaner had a hole in the end and you slid it over the CRT pin and
rotated it to clean the CRT pin.
(no,I don't have a p/n for it)

I've also seen loose CRT socket connectors,and replaced CRT sockets for
similar problems.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net