MessageView 421F schematic

[You]

In article <46A41EE6.C8375DD2@earthlink.net>,
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

You wrote:

In article <46A2DC53.4855003C@earthlink.net>,
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

"!!Lou" wrote:


This is not a "For sale" newsgroup. Any electronics related sale
messages belong on <news:misc.industry.electronics.marketplace> or
http://groups.google.com/group/news:misc.industry.electronics.marketplace
?hl=
en
for Google users. misc.industry.electronics.marketplace was created for
that purpose.

http://www.faqs.org/ftp/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/sci/sci.electronics
-reo
rg

I have been reading you BS for months now. Are you 14 years old or what?

You're probably closer to 14. Your IQ, that is.

Nobody likes a Self-appointed Usenet Cop..... if you want to be a COP,
join a Law Enforcment Agency.... otherwise..... Blow it out your ASS....


Yawn. So, you don't like the newsgroup charter, or you don't think
that it applies? By charter, advertisements are not allowed in
news:sci.electronics.equipment so get over yourself.


http://www.faqs.org/ftp/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/sci/sci.electronics-reo
rg


BTW, if you ever do blow ANYTHING out your ass, there will be nothing
left but a toxic stain.

Well just maybe you didn't realise that this was a CROSS POSTED Post,
and some of us over here in rec.radio.swap don't think much of your
intelect in replying to a CROSS POSTED Post. outside your NEWSGROUP...
Idiot...... or don't you understand about CROSS POSTED Posts.....
Inquirig minds, want to know.......

 

[Randy Robinson]

Hey, Thanks for the post!!! Now we all know how Bush got Elected!
It was microwave's and subliminal suggestion. (V2K) Mind Control.....
Man, you are really on to something here. I just "hope" that Hillary Rodham
Bush Cheney Gonzalez Clinton does not know about this vital technology?
Geeez, mind control by "yet another" Control Freak(s)! I have to wonder
though, Did She or Bill ever figure out how to get the Cum stain off of
Monica's blue dress? Ahhhh, It doesn't matter, just elect her as Prez.....
What the hell? I am sending your post to Obama. He needs to be prepared
and maybe use this Mind Control thing himself? Actually, scratch that, since
MSNBC and the rest of the paid for media already use it. Damn!



"soleilmavis" <soleilmavis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1185589470.295351.114880@m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com...

Mind Control and Directed Energy Weapons

Do you know Mind Control Weapons and Brain Washing (such as CIA Mind
Control Project : MKULTRA) ? Do you know voice can be transmitted to
human's head from long distance(V2K)? (In 2002, the Air Force Research
Laboratory patented precisely such a technology: using microwaves to
send words into someone's head.)Do you know Directed Energy
Weapons(such as: Electromagnetic weapons) and Non-lethal Weapons? Do
you know that people's thoughts can be read now? Do you know Nano
technology weapons (such as British MI5 Nano technology spy weapons
which can control little spy mice from long distance)?

Such kinds of weapons have already been used covertly to torture and
harass innocent, legal, unarmed and defenseless civilians for many
years all over the world.

There are more than 1500 people who are suffering terribly from mind
control and electromagnetic weapons torturing and harassment. Some
victims were only 21-22 years old when the first time they were
seriously tortured and harassed.

Have you ever imagined that there even was not one happy and peace day
in the life, but only suffering for 5,10 or 20 years? Yes! Some
victims died, but at the last minutes in their lives, the only thing
belongs to them was still suffering.

Please come to help us by signing your support to stop these kinds of
weapons torturing and harassing lawful citizens. Our goals:

(1) We wish a resolution from United Nations to stop Mind Control and
Directed Energy weapons torturing and harassing. (2) We wish all
government cooperate together to sentence those torturers according to
law.

More Information, please come to http://soleilmavis.googlepages.com
Blog: http://soleilmavis.spaces.live.com

 

[Lost in the Wasteland]

Randy Robinson wrote:

It was microwave's and subliminal suggestion. (V2K) Mind Control.....


Build one before they are banned!!!!

http://www.akelasbiggins.com/duderator2k6.pdf


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[Lost in the Wasteland]

Lost in the Wasteland wrote:

Build one before they are banned!!!!

http://www.akelasbiggins.com/duderator2k6.pdf

PS :
The government (under Rumsfield and Ashcroft
imposed changes) has improved the frequency
scanning techniques and you are *all* at risk since this
diagram has been posted on the internet.

The shield will do nothing without the
proper AC current flow through the helmet.

You need to exchange the green wire with the
black wire in the drawing to enable the stronger protection
and add additional copper to the *inside* of the
helmet.

It is the only way to be sure you are fully
protected. Maybe switch to a 2 prong plug to
reduce the cost while your at it.

Try it and if we don't hear back from
you we will know it worked.

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

 

[Mike Harrison]

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 10:17:23 -0700, sunshine <dleuen@gmx.net> wrote:

Hi,

we are still using the obsolete HP4145B Parameter Analyzer. It's a
wonderful piece of equipment and it does the job.
Although it is hooked up to GPIB, it still needs the floppy drive with
a bootdisk. Unfortunately the floppy drive broke and Agilent does not
have any spare parts. Even though it is 3.5" it is not compatible with
the common PC floppy drives. Any idea to work around this (except
buying new equipment)?

Any comments are welcome.

Thanks,
David

Older floppy drives had quite a few jumpers to configure the interface - when PC's arrived, they
tended to use settings ( in particular cable select) which were not the 'default' at the time -
obviously these settings have now become the default and the links have disappeared, so worth
looking for older drives as it may just be a case of setting the links right, or jigging some pins
around on the cable to work with a modern drive.
I'd guess the most likely difference is that it probably isn't high density, so you may just need to
look for a double-density (720K for 3.5" can't remember the capacity for 51/4).
If it's a really old 5/4" drive, they also came in 40 and 80 track variants, as well as single or
doublke sided.

Take a close look at the old drive to see who actually made it.

Have you established the actual fault? Have you tried cleaning the heads, checking the alignment?
Unless the head is physically damaged or worn, these things are repairable, and as older ones tended
to use discrete logic etc, reasonably fault-findable.

I assume you've tried another known-working disk to eliminate that...?

Also try posting on the Agilent forum - I've seen long-time HP staff give useful repair pointers
here
http://forums.tm.agilent.com/phpBB2/index.php

 

[JeffM]

justmanuals wrote:
:[SPAM, SPAM, SPAM]
:[Jump thru hoops and give me money to get a "freebie"]
:[SPAM, SPAM, SPAM] (Just like always)

 

[JimW52]

On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 21:50:34 -0700, JeffM wrote:

justmanuals wrote:
:[SPAM, SPAM, SPAM]
:[Jump thru hoops and give me money to get a "freebie"] [SPAM, SPAM, SPAM]
Just like always)

Jeff

Would you take your anal spam elsewhere?

Jim

 

[JeffM]

JimW52 wrote:

Jeff
Would you take your anal spam elsewhere?

It is clearly marked as spam.
If you don't want to see it,
simply create a filter for "SPAM" (all caps) for the Subject line.

 

[Steve Noll]

On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 01:19:40 -0700, SparkyGuy <SparkyGuy@mumcrank.ck>
wrote:

We're having to reset our office network at least once a day. it locks up and
only a power cycle will get things going again.

We've replaced the router and the DSL modem. No joy. Firmware is up-to-date.
The neighboring office manager says that they are experiencing similar
issues. The building is old and will be bulldozed within a year (60's/70's
vintage wiring).

How can we confirm or eliminate the power as the culprit? Would like to take
steps to filter the mains power rather than measure it (ie, strip chart
recorder) because I'm certain that it's the culprit, and spending a few $$ on
cleaning up the power is $$ well spent, IMHO.

The current power strip powering the network devices -- DSL modem, Ethernet
network router/switch (no wireless) -- has integral surge protection but
nothing more.

All suggestions are welcome.

Sparky

I can't imagine not having a UPS for such important equipment. While
you are at it I'd get a high quality model like a Tripplite SU750XL.
This is a pure sine wave double conversion unit. Maintains voltage
+/-2%, zero switchover time. Probably can't get better isolation from
the power line, which sounds like what you need. The downside it that
it has a loud fan.

Steve Noll | The Used Hi Tech Equipment Dealer Directory:
| http://www.big-list.com
| Peltier Information Directory:
| http://www.peltier-info.com

 

[Randy Robinson]

Well, I guess, somewhere, sometime, someone has not been paying attention to
where the cord was?
All manufacturers assume that a product consumer must have "at least" a
little bit of common sense?
In your case, non-existient. I hate to say this, but I agree with Mike T.
Even he would acknowledge
that you are not only an Ambulence chaser, but an Appliance chaser as well,
looking for a lawsuit.
Show us your Green Card.......




"Jim" <nomail@riomail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9946D229AC2E45D4AM2@127.0.0.1...

On 05 Jun 2007, DCA <dca860MAPS@yahooMAPS.co.uk> wrote:

Whilst we're on the topic of Dysons, anyone who owns one of the
upgright cleaners might want to have a look at these pics.

http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/album/559275985NYyQkJ

This is the second time our DC07 has bared the wires on the power
cable, this apparently happens when the cable gets sucked up by
the front brush roller. We know that we definitely haven't
vacuumed over the cable so it must have happened when we've been
using the extendable hose and the unit has maybe been dragged over
the cable.

What is more frightening though is that we were unaware on both
occasions that the wire had been damaged and had the unit being
left plugged in, the kids could have touched the bare wires.

The first time it happened, my wife got an electric shock, the
second time i had already unplugged the unit and was coiling the
cable away after using it when i noticed it.

I've spoken to Dyson about this and all they did was draw my
attention to the user instructions which say "not to vacuum over
the power cable"!!

Whilst i've had Dysons for 10 years now, i won't buying another
one. I now need to decide what alternative to buy for the safety
of my family.

What a load of absolute drivel!
No - using extendable hose would not do it because the brushes are
not rotating
The cable doesn't split itself LIKE ANY VACUUM cleaner -

My vacuum cleaner doesn't split its cable if I run over it. Not even if
I do it dozens of times. Sounds like a design fault to me. Of course a
designer might reasonably expect that a vacumm will from time to time go
over its cable. It just happens when the cleaner is turned and twisted
and moved.

Not to anticipate something as simple as that is like expecting no one
ever to scuff the paint on your front door with their shoes - it
shouldn't really happen but it definitely will happen.

it has
been DAMAGED bu running over it or dragging under a door etc.
Yes - wires give electric shocks DOHHHH. Yes, kids or anyone else
'could touch them' - that would be your fault for damaging the wire
- not Dysons. Get an earth leakage breaker to protect them which is
good for all household goods.

Using an earth lakage breaker on an ordinary domestic appliance seems a
case of overcaution to me. Nor should it really be necessary. I only
use such an RCD when I run an extension lead outdoors.


WTF did you expect Dyson to say. They're right! Now take some
responsibility yourself.
I despair!


.
.




--

groups widened to include those with people who have electrical experise

 

[harrogate3]

[snip]

it has
been DAMAGED bu running over it or dragging under a door etc.
Yes - wires give electric shocks DOHHHH. Yes, kids or anyone
else
'could touch them' - that would be your fault for damaging the
wire
- not Dysons. Get an earth leakage breaker to protect them which
is
good for all household goods.

Using an earth lakage breaker on an ordinary domestic appliance
seems a
case of overcaution to me. Nor should it really be necessary. I
only
use such an RCD when I run an extension lead outdoors.
[snip]

Using an RCD (the modern name for an earth leakage circuit breaker -
in use since the 16th Regs came out in the '80's) on a vac will not do
you any good whatsoever - unless that is you make a habit of holding
on to your water pipes as you vac!

Vacuum cleaners have been double insulated and had two-core cable for
decades - Dyson always have been on all models. In most parts of a
house where you vac you are unlikely to be earthed so supply cannot
run through you to earth and hence the RCD will not work. The
contributor who got a shock must have come into contact with both live
and neutral from an exposed cable.

The problem with Dysons is that the cable is not heavy enough for the
load it carries - have you ever noticed how it runs warm? Not only is
it too thin for the power but as a consequence of thinner cable so is
the insulation and the sheath which then fails mechanically in normal
use. We had a DC05 (small one) and the sheath split at a point about
10cms from the rewind hole when the cable was fully extended - and it
happened about three months out of warranty. On the earlier uprights
the neutral wire (don't ask me why) commonly failed at the cable
entry - I repaired two machines twice each in three years for exactly
that.


--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com

 

On Aug 14, 7:00 pm, "Art M - Artfromny" <artga...@nycap.rr.com> wrote:

I need 80186 and 8051 pods - 4 of the 80186, 2 of the 8051, paying $250 each
for the 80186, $200 each for the 8051

Also paying $175 each for probes for the Fluke 9100 (NOT the skinny 9010
probes, these are the larger flatter probes for the 9100)

Also looking for a few 68000 pods, a few 6502, one each 8086 and 8085, but
not for the kind of money listed above.

Also looking for cheap bulk deals on other pods

My ebay handle is artfromny for those who dont know me and want to check my
feedback

I prefer paypal but will send money order or company check if necessary

Pods MUST be functional and guaranteed to pass self test on arrival, no bent
or missing pins.

--

Art

Are you talking about the ones for the Intel Series IV Development
System?

 

[micrologix1500@yahoo.com]

On Aug 14, 7:19 pm, americannleag...@hotmail.com wrote:

On Aug 14, 7:00 pm, "Art M - Artfromny" <artga...@nycap.rr.com> wrote:



I need 80186 and 8051 pods - 4 of the 80186, 2 of the 8051, paying $250 each
for the 80186, $200 each for the 8051

Also paying $175 each for probes for the Fluke 9100 (NOT the skinny 9010
probes, these are the larger flatter probes for the 9100)

Also looking for a few 68000 pods, a few 6502, one each 8086 and 8085, but
not for the kind of money listed above.

Also looking for cheap bulk deals on other pods

My ebay handle is artfromny for those who dont know me and want to check my
feedback

I prefer paypal but will send money order or company check if necessary

Pods MUST be functional and guaranteed to pass self test on arrival, no bent
or missing pins.

--

Art

Are you talking about the ones for the Intel Series IV Development
System?

They're for the Fluke Micro-System Troubleshooter.. I think what
you're referring to must be something different.

Didn't you know, Art is Mr. Fluke 9010

 

[Craig Yarbrough]

I wish someone would come up with a single new and improved device
that could emulate the bus cycles of any of the above processors
without having to buy or swap out individual pods. Maybe something PC-
based, easy to use, and more cost-effective than the 9010A. Yeah that
would be cool.

- Craig

On Aug 14, 7:44 pm, "micrologix1...@yahoo.com"
<micrologix1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Aug 14, 7:19 pm, americannleag...@hotmail.com wrote:





On Aug 14, 7:00 pm, "Art M - Artfromny" <artga...@nycap.rr.com> wrote:

I need 80186 and 8051 pods - 4 of the 80186, 2 of the 8051, paying $250 each
for the 80186, $200 each for the 8051

Also paying $175 each for probes for the Fluke 9100 (NOT the skinny 9010
probes, these are the larger flatter probes for the 9100)

Also looking for a few 68000 pods, a few 6502, one each 8086 and 8085, but
not for the kind of money listed above.

Also looking for cheap bulk deals on other pods

My ebay handle is artfromny for those who dont know me and want to check my
feedback

I prefer paypal but will send money order or company check if necessary

Pods MUST be functional and guaranteed to pass self test on arrival, no bent
or missing pins.

--

Art

Are you talking about the ones for the Intel Series IV Development
System?

They're for the Fluke Micro-System Troubleshooter.. I think what
you're referring to must be something different.

Didn't you know, Art is Mr. Fluke 9010 - Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

 

[Art M - Artfromny]

The pods I need are for the Fluke 9010, adapting it to working on a UUT
using an 81086. Not sure what the item you are referring to is.
thanks

--

Art

<americannleaguer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1187133579.154503.244270@x40g2000prg.googlegroups.com...

On Aug 14, 7:00 pm, "Art M - Artfromny" <artga...@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
I need 80186 and 8051 pods - 4 of the 80186, 2 of the 8051, paying $250
each
for the 80186, $200 each for the 8051

Also paying $175 each for probes for the Fluke 9100 (NOT the skinny 9010
probes, these are the larger flatter probes for the 9100)

Also looking for a few 68000 pods, a few 6502, one each 8086 and 8085,
but
not for the kind of money listed above.

Also looking for cheap bulk deals on other pods

My ebay handle is artfromny for those who dont know me and want to check
my
feedback

I prefer paypal but will send money order or company check if necessary

Pods MUST be functional and guaranteed to pass self test on arrival, no
bent
or missing pins.

--

Art

Are you talking about the ones for the Intel Series IV Development
System?

 

[Art M - Artfromny]

Make me one that will emulate an 80186 on a PC and I can probably sell it
for you

--

Art

"Craig Yarbrough" <hyarbr01@harris.com> wrote in message
news:1187140765.193331.51590@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

I wish someone would come up with a single new and improved device
that could emulate the bus cycles of any of the above processors
without having to buy or swap out individual pods. Maybe something PC-
based, easy to use, and more cost-effective than the 9010A. Yeah that
would be cool.

- Craig

On Aug 14, 7:44 pm, "micrologix1...@yahoo.com"
micrologix1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Aug 14, 7:19 pm, americannleag...@hotmail.com wrote:





On Aug 14, 7:00 pm, "Art M - Artfromny" <artga...@nycap.rr.com> wrote:

I need 80186 and 8051 pods - 4 of the 80186, 2 of the 8051, paying
$250 each
for the 80186, $200 each for the 8051

Also paying $175 each for probes for the Fluke 9100 (NOT the skinny
9010
probes, these are the larger flatter probes for the 9100)

Also looking for a few 68000 pods, a few 6502, one each 8086 and
8085, but
not for the kind of money listed above.

Also looking for cheap bulk deals on other pods

My ebay handle is artfromny for those who dont know me and want to
check my
feedback

I prefer paypal but will send money order or company check if
necessary

Pods MUST be functional and guaranteed to pass self test on arrival,
no bent
or missing pins.

--

Art

Are you talking about the ones for the Intel Series IV Development
System?

They're for the Fluke Micro-System Troubleshooter.. I think what
you're referring to must be something different.

Didn't you know, Art is Mr. Fluke 9010 - Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

 

[Esther & Fester Bestertes]

Your claim is true, if and only if, you are talking about a double
conversion UPS. The normal line interactive backup UPS (the type you
were referring to) has no more surge protection in it than one of
those cheap power boards.

Hogwash, of course the UPS I am talking about is part of a power system.
Hence you are the one who is wrong. Using a power strip alone, will barely
protect equipment from line surges. Using a UPS will protect from line
surges as well as more importantly keep your equipment running during a line
outage. No power strip will provide power during a line outage.

It might just be me, but does it sound like these two are arguing the same
point...?

FBt

 

[w_tom]

On Aug 15, 12:15 am, N7ZZT - Eric Oyen <n7...@127.0.0.1> wrote:

now here is someone who has done some valid research (thank you!).

Some of us in the Ham radio corps (like me) tend to "over do it" on
grounding (for fairly obvious reasons). so far, that over engineering on my
part has saved a lot more than would have ordinarily been the case. still,
I should referr everyone back to my "defense in depth" proposal.

The Ham radio corp talks about earthing for surge protection. And
layering is defined where the earthing electrodes are located. Ham
radio operators know the importance of earthing. Better protection
comes from better earthing connections such as Bill Ott demonstrates
in:
http://home1.gte.net/res0958z/

Defense in depth: but each layer is defined by the earthing.
Primary protection layer is provided by the utility. What is the
center point of that protection? Utility earthing. Secondary layer
of protection is building earthing. A plug-in protector is part of
the same secondary layer that must include a 'whole house' protector.
Both are in same layer; both would connect to the same earthing. So
where is this layering? A plug-in protectors adjacent to the TV or
plugged into the breaker box is in the same layer.

Why does Bud's citation page 42 Figure 8 show a plug-in protector
earthing a surge, 8000 volts destructively, throught an adjacent TV. A
protector without earth ground even earthed surges, destrutively,
through a network of computers. Unlike Bud, one here has been doing
this stuff for numerous decades. How does a protector without earth
ground 'layer' when IEEE papers routinely show earthing as essential
for shunt mode protectors? Each layer is defined by grouding.

Why do the telco define each protection layer by grounding? They
don't do what Bud recommends. They do as Bill Ott demonstrates. And
Orange County FL:
http://www.psihq.com/AllCopper.htm
and an industry consultant:
http://www.gpr-expert.com/
and an industry benchmark:
http://www.polyphaser.com/technical_notes.aspx
and the station engineer at WXIA-TV:
http://www.harvardrepeater.org/news/lightning.html

Why do Bud's citation not agree with what he claims? Why does that
protector without earthing then shunt the surge 8000 volts
destructively through an adjacent TV? Page 42 Figure 8.

Meanwhile, why did you have the same power strip protectors that Bud
recommends; and suffer damage as a result? Does price determine
quality? Of course not.

I am not sure I trust those power strips either. I have had 2 expensive
pieces of equipment fry while plugged into those (cost a bunch of cash
to repair/replace).
How did you suffer damage? Layering did not work. But you then

recommend layers not defined by earth ground? Power strips had no
earthing. Therefore Page 42 Figure 8 explains the damage - a power
strip earthing a surge destructively through your now fried pieces of
equipment. Why do you call that efffective protection? You suffered
damage because the power strip did same damage demonstrated in Bud's
citation - Page 42 Figure 8. A power strip without a short connection
to earth ground therefore earthed that surge, destructively, through
expensive pieces of equipment.

Experienced ham radio operators recommend earthing for protection as
was demonstrated by operators even in the early 20th Century.

 

[w_tom]

On Aug 15, 12:07 am, N7ZZT - Eric Oyen <n7...@127.0.0.1> wrote:

anyway, all this flame throwing and "attack the messenger" doesn't help
matters any. only cold, hard facts will prevail.

Cold hard facts were provided. From an APC Back-UPS 300 spec
sheet:

Surge Protection and Filtering
Surge energy rating 300 Joules

That's it. That is the entire protection in a plug-in UPS. 300
joules. It does not even list protection for each type of surge. Even
a $10 grocery store power strip may claim better protection. Having
ignored cold hard numbers, Dana still insists a UPS , even with so few
joules, provides superior protection. Fine. How does the power
supply in a UPS (that is also bypassed by another wire) provide any
better protection than a power supply inside appliances? It does
not. An appliance power supply already provides that protection, as
even required industry standards. How does a UPS do any better when
it even claims no protection and when it connects AC electric directly
to appliances when not in battery backup mode?

Ross Herbert accurately notes many UPSes don't contain what Dana
insists is common. Dana also posts protection claims that even the
UPS manufacturer does not make. Provided were even cold hard numbers
that contradict Dana.

Meanwhile, this is all irrelevant to the OP's question. He suspects
'dirty' electricity causing a router problem. First AC electricity is
not even known to cause the problem. Second, a UPS that will 'clean'
that electricity (which has nothing to do with surges) is $500. $500
to 'clean' electricity for a $50 router that should not need
electrical 'cleaning'? The OP's 'suspect' has nothing to do with
Dana's surges. Completely different electrical events.

Cold hard facts - the numbers - were posted. Dana is making claims
that even manufacturer specs do not make. People know only from a
subjective APC application note did not learn the technology or read
technical specs. That is the point that Ross Herbert is making. Dana
did not learn before 'knowing'. Dana did not even understand how a
line interactive UPS operates. Dana responds by 'attacking the
messenger' because he did not even read manufacture specs and has no
cold hard facts to reply with. Cold hard numbers were posted above.
Dana somehow just knows - cold hard facts be damned.

Recommended for SparkyGuy were numerous cheaper and simpler
solutions to first learn why a router was locking even at times when
router was not locking. Even $10 experiments, a desktop script,
inspecting receptacle screws, and a temporary 50 foot extension cord
were recommended instead of buying a $500 UPS for a problem that may
not even exist.

Why are some discussing surges? They assume all electrical
anomalies are same. They don't know how electricity works but will
automatically recommend a UPS as a surge protector. Even the
manufacturer does not claim such abilities. But they know even surge
protection can eliminate harmonic problems - they just know.

 

[N7ZZT - Eric Oyen]

w_tom wrote:

The Ham radio corp talks about earthing for surge protection. And
layering is defined where the earthing electrodes are located. Ham
radio operators know the importance of earthing. Better protection
comes from better earthing connections such as Bill Ott demonstrates
in:
http://home1.gte.net/res0958z/
I know of bill. His is not the only source I reference though.

Defense in depth: but each layer is defined by the earthing.
Primary protection layer is provided by the utility. What is the
center point of that protection? Utility earthing. Secondary layer
of protection is building earthing. A plug-in protector is part of
the same secondary layer that must include a 'whole house' protector.
Both are in same layer; both would connect to the same earthing. So
where is this layering? A plug-in protectors adjacent to the TV or
plugged into the breaker box is in the same layer.

hello? think about it man. each point is tied to the same ground (it took
rather a long while to get the whole house done so that all grounds are at
same potential and I didn't bother with that silly conduit trick some home
developers tried using in the 1980's either!)

Why does Bud's citation page 42 Figure 8 show a plug-in protector
earthing a surge, 8000 volts destructively, throught an adjacent TV. A
protector without earth ground even earthed surges, destrutively,
through a network of computers. Unlike Bud, one here has been doing
this stuff for numerous decades. How does a protector without earth
ground 'layer' when IEEE papers routinely show earthing as essential
for shunt mode protectors? Each layer is defined by grouding.

have you read any of the documents he submitted (let alone his post)? Had
you bothered to read (and think) perhaps the answers you seek would have
become painfully clear. also, I did not see mention of that specific
scenario showing up in the documentation (as presented).

Lastly, I do run a small computer center here at home and it took me a
better part of the last 5 years to get the while house up to IEEE
recommended wiring (with a little over engineering on my part)

Why do the telco define each protection layer by grounding? They
don't do what Bud recommends. They do as Bill Ott demonstrates. And
Orange County FL:
http://www.psihq.com/AllCopper.htm
and an industry consultant:
http://www.gpr-expert.com/
and an industry benchmark:
http://www.polyphaser.com/technical_notes.aspx
and the station engineer at WXIA-TV:
http://www.harvardrepeater.org/news/lightning.html

another set of good sources, thenk you (always looking for more).

Why do Bud's citation not agree with what he claims? Why does that
protector without earthing then shunt the surge 8000 volts
destructively through an adjacent TV? Page 42 Figure 8.

perhaps that was a demonstration of what NOT TO DO? did that ever occur to
you?

Meanwhile, why did you have the same power strip protectors that Bud
recommends; and suffer damage as a result? Does price determine
quality? Of course not.

really? funny. the cheaper they are, the less time they last (I happen to
work in retail marketing on my other job and I do see this all the time.
the really cheap power strips offer no protection at all (aside of a single
circuit breaker) and the cheapo "protected" power strips aren't much
better.

I am not sure I trust those power strips either. I have had 2 expensive
pieces of equipment fry while plugged into those (cost a bunch of cash
to repair/replace).
How did you suffer damage? Layering did not work. But you then
recommend layers not defined by earth ground? Power strips had no
earthing. Therefore Page 42 Figure 8 explains the damage - a power
strip earthing a surge destructively through your now fried pieces of
equipment. Why do you call that efffective protection? You suffered
damage because the power strip did same damage demonstrated in Bud's
citation - Page 42 Figure 8. A power strip without a short connection
to earth ground therefore earthed that surge, destructively, through
expensive pieces of equipment.

How did I suffer damage?
well, before I embarked on the "great rewiring" of my residence about 5
years ago, I ended up losing 2 very expensive computers to a couple of
surges caused by an exploding "pole pig" transformer in my back yard (the
result of which was that my house (and several others on the block) were
subjected to the 12.5 KV voltage from the primaries on the same poles.

Homeowners insurance covered the loss of the major appliances (washer,
drier, fridge, etc) but not the computer equipment (I never did get a
straight answer from them and ended up having to eat the cost after
attempting court action - I have since switched insurance policies).

you keep bringing up page 42 figure 9 like its some kind of mantra.
personally, it just sounds to me like you are whining and don't really
understand the problem at hand. have you a real point to make here?

Experienced ham radio operators recommend earthing for protection as
was demonstrated by operators even in the early 20th Century.

ok captain obvious? any other "salient" points to make?