MessageView 421F schematic

[Terran Melconian]

On 2007-02-28, Anthony Fremont <spam-not@nowhere.com> wrote:

Tek is nice, but I'm going to have to spend my pennies on an Instek, Rigol
or something a little less expensive. For example, for what a Tek

If you do end up getting one of those, would you report back on how it
is? I'd be very interested; perhaps it will suck less than the Tek for
the same price.

 

[Anthony Fremont]

doug wrote:

Anthony Fremont wrote:

Thank you for the information. I can certainly see where color
would be nice. I've used analog scopes for a very long time, but
I've never once used a DSO. This is all so overwhelming trying to
sift thru the different models and marketing hype while trying to
extract the information that isn't being presented (limitations).

Tek is nice, but I'm going to have to spend my pennies on an Instek,
Rigol or something a little less expensive. For example, for what a
Tek 60MHz/monochrome costs, I can get a Rigol with wayyyyyyy deeper
memory (1M points)/TFT color/100Mhz and a few more features. Not
knocking Tek, but I just don't have the money for a 3000 series. If
I did, I'd probably be asking about Agilent. ;-)


Agilent (still HP to us old folk) does a lot of things very nicely but
they never learned to make a decent scope. For many years (not sure
if it is still true) all the low end scopes had 20Msps a/d converters
and so they had to do equivalent time sampling and were not much use
for transients and such. A friend who is the world's biggest HP fan
still uses a Tek scope. On the other hand, Tek never learned much
about making other types of equipment.

I almost wrote HP.

A lot of folks make a big deal of a deep capture memory. There have
been very few times where that would have made any difference to me
but others might find situations, such as using it for a logic
analyzer where it does make a difference.

Most of my projects involve microcontrollers, so I might find some use in
that. That's not the only thing swaying me towards Rigol. It's thin like
the Tek so it won't take up so much space, it has a decent enough sample
rate of 400M Samp./second, a TFT display, 3-yr warr., and good set of
features (FWICT ;-) Now if I could just find one in the US.

The place where a fair fraction of the money goes is in the mechanical
items. The low end HP scopes had switches that either got dirty or
fell apart and were a mess. The Tek units were much better about
that. I do not think either company suports much in the way of service
anymore.

That's not hard to believe.

The cheapest way in is probably from ebay. I got several used scopes
there that I have been happy with (the stack is pretty tall in my
storeroom).

I don't mind buying old beater watches on e-bay, but when the price of
things climbs into the hundreds of dollars, I'm pretty leary of it.

 

[Anthony Fremont]

Terran Melconian wrote:

On 2007-02-28, Anthony Fremont <spam-not@nowhere.com> wrote:
Tek is nice, but I'm going to have to spend my pennies on an Instek,
Rigol or something a little less expensive. For example, for what a
Tek

If you do end up getting one of those, would you report back on how it
is? I'd be very interested; perhaps it will suck less than the Tek
for the same price.

I sure will, especially if I think it sux. ;-) The problem is that I don't
have anything to compare it to since I've never used a DSO before. The
display quality should be a bit better with a TFT LCD I suppose, but it's
still only QVGA resolution. It can do math, well at least some anyway like
duty cycle (+ and -), pulse width (+ and -), and a couple of other things
the Tek didn't.

I only found two distributors that even sell it, neither have it in stock.
One never got back with me on availability or shipping, the other wants a
fortune to ship. They're very willing to let me pay for expedited shipping
now ($70 for two day CA to TX), but won't be able to ship out for about two
weeks. :-( They were nice folks though. Maybe I should order it direct
from China.

 

[doug]

Anthony Fremont wrote:

doug wrote:

Anthony Fremont wrote:


Thank you for the information. I can certainly see where color
would be nice. I've used analog scopes for a very long time, but
I've never once used a DSO. This is all so overwhelming trying to
sift thru the different models and marketing hype while trying to
extract the information that isn't being presented (limitations).

Tek is nice, but I'm going to have to spend my pennies on an Instek,
Rigol or something a little less expensive. For example, for what a
Tek 60MHz/monochrome costs, I can get a Rigol with wayyyyyyy deeper
memory (1M points)/TFT color/100Mhz and a few more features. Not
knocking Tek, but I just don't have the money for a 3000 series. If
I did, I'd probably be asking about Agilent. ;-)



Agilent (still HP to us old folk) does a lot of things very nicely but
they never learned to make a decent scope. For many years (not sure
if it is still true) all the low end scopes had 20Msps a/d converters
and so they had to do equivalent time sampling and were not much use
for transients and such. A friend who is the world's biggest HP fan
still uses a Tek scope. On the other hand, Tek never learned much
about making other types of equipment.


I almost wrote HP.


A lot of folks make a big deal of a deep capture memory. There have
been very few times where that would have made any difference to me
but others might find situations, such as using it for a logic
analyzer where it does make a difference.


Most of my projects involve microcontrollers, so I might find some use in
that. That's not the only thing swaying me towards Rigol. It's thin like
the Tek so it won't take up so much space, it has a decent enough sample
rate of 400M Samp./second, a TFT display, 3-yr warr., and good set of
features (FWICT ;-) Now if I could just find one in the US.


The place where a fair fraction of the money goes is in the mechanical
items. The low end HP scopes had switches that either got dirty or
fell apart and were a mess. The Tek units were much better about
that. I do not think either company suports much in the way of service
anymore.


That's not hard to believe.


The cheapest way in is probably from ebay. I got several used scopes
there that I have been happy with (the stack is pretty tall in my
storeroom).


I don't mind buying old beater watches on e-bay, but when the price of
things climbs into the hundreds of dollars, I'm pretty leary of it.


Ebay has worked well for me. I have bought somewhere around 50 pieces

of equipment and maybe 400 or so other things. I got my tds3032 on ebay
as well as the 2432, a couple of hp34401 voltmeters, some network
analyzer etc. No problems on any of the expensive items. The cheaper
items were where people tended to stretch the truth somewhat more. Some
people feel it is easier to clean up pictures than the item for sale.

Anyway, good luck with you choice of scope and let us know how it works
out. It is just me, but I am more nervous about the kind of transaction
you are goinging into and I would like a calibration point on the
success.

 

[john jardine]

"Anthony Fremont" <spam-not@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:12ueosdhfcr0284@news.supernews.com...
[...]

I pretty much read the whole user manual. It certainly has features
that
I've wanted in the past. Just being able to see what happened before
the
trigger will be a boon. I doubt I really "need" this scope, but I sure
do
want it.

Now all I need is about $1600 to pay for it all. Paypal donations
accepted
[...]

As a general comment, I'm genuinely puzzled at the large number of people
who need and seemingly make regular of, the pre trigger and pre storage
facilities of digital scopes.
Can't remember the last time I needed the facility.
Am I missing out here, or doing something wrong, or thick or summat, or
what?.
john

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

 

[Joerg]

john jardine wrote:

"Anthony Fremont" <spam-not@nowhere.com> wrote in message

news:12ueosdhfcr0284@news.supernews.com...
[...]


I pretty much read the whole user manual. It certainly has features

that

I've wanted in the past. Just being able to see what happened before

the

trigger will be a boon. I doubt I really "need" this scope, but I sure

do

want it.


Now all I need is about $1600 to pay for it all. Paypal donations
accepted

[...]

As a general comment, I'm genuinely puzzled at the large number of people
who need and seemingly make regular of, the pre trigger and pre storage
facilities of digital scopes.
Can't remember the last time I needed the facility.
Am I missing out here, or doing something wrong, or thick or summat, or
what?.

Guilty. I am one of them. We do a lot of pulsed ultrasound and there
such features are indispensable. But I can mostly work quite well with
analog scopes. Except when the delay-trigger clutch on ye olde 2465 fell
apart...

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[Hawker]

On 3/1/2007 8:36 PM, The digits of john jardine's hands composed the
following:

"Anthony Fremont" <spam-not@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:12ueosdhfcr0284@news.supernews.com...
[...]

I pretty much read the whole user manual. It certainly has features
that
I've wanted in the past. Just being able to see what happened before
the
trigger will be a boon. I doubt I really "need" this scope, but I sure
do
want it.

Now all I need is about $1600 to pay for it all. Paypal donations
accepted
[...]

As a general comment, I'm genuinely puzzled at the large number of people
who need and seemingly make regular of, the pre trigger and pre storage
facilities of digital scopes.
Can't remember the last time I needed the facility.
Am I missing out here, or doing something wrong, or thick or summat, or
what?.
john

I sometimes need to see a signal that is hard to trigger on so I trigger
on something else, which may be later.
For example I do a lot of CCD design. I often trigger on the reset pulse
which happens at a different time than the image data I am looking for.
This helps me know that I am looking at the same pixel each time because
the image is referenced to the reset not the picture. I would hate to
think I am looking at a black reference pixel when I am actually looking
at a live data pixel.

Hawker

 

[Joerg]

Hawker wrote:

On 3/1/2007 8:36 PM, The digits of john jardine's hands composed the
following:

"Anthony Fremont" <spam-not@nowhere.com> wrote in message

news:12ueosdhfcr0284@news.supernews.com...
[...]

I pretty much read the whole user manual. It certainly has features

that

I've wanted in the past. Just being able to see what happened before

the

trigger will be a boon. I doubt I really "need" this scope, but I sure

do

want it.

Now all I need is about $1600 to pay for it all. Paypal donations
accepted

[...]

As a general comment, I'm genuinely puzzled at the large number of
people
who need and seemingly make regular of, the pre trigger and pre storage
facilities of digital scopes.
Can't remember the last time I needed the facility.
Am I missing out here, or doing something wrong, or thick or summat, or
what?.
john



I sometimes need to see a signal that is hard to trigger on so I trigger
on something else, which may be later.
For example I do a lot of CCD design. I often trigger on the reset pulse
which happens at a different time than the image data I am looking for.
This helps me know that I am looking at the same pixel each time because
the image is referenced to the reset not the picture. I would hate to
think I am looking at a black reference pixel when I am actually looking
at a live data pixel.

As a master's project I designed a CCD camera from scratch. To be able
to look at one CCD pixel I borrowed a HP scope from the RF institute
next door because I knew someone there. By today's standard that scope
would be considered pre-historic. Then I built myself a "crutch", a
little precision delay circuit so I could trigger on the previous line
end and scoot the scope trigger via a 20-turn potmeter (the scope did
not have delayed trigger).

Sure enough, the millisecond I turned that scope on for the first time
... POOF. Dark smoke came out. One of the PS transistors had decided to
become a rocket and this was the darling scope of the RF guys :-(

But luckily we had such a transistor and it hadn't taken much downstream
of it into the grave.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[Jim Yanik]

The Real Andy <therealandy@nospam.com> wrote in
news:9thku2ljqj4h74nrjee5ojekidfoae4d68@4ax.com:

Ahhh, who actually uses a scope to make accurate measurements?

define "accurate measurements"....

Some scopes are merely waveform indicators,some can make "accurate
measurements",within their specs. The earliest scopes didn't even have
graticules or calibrated verticals or timebases,yet much was achieved with
them.

"accuracy" is merely how close the measurement is to the true value.
(and the values specified are actually "inaccuracy",not accuracy.
[to be accurate...]
Ex;+/- 1% is how INaccurate the measurement may be.)

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

[Robert Baer]

purejunkmale@hotmail.com wrote:

Thank you in advance for your time. I found a neat project to do with
my 14 year old son, but would like to know the science behind it so it
will be educational.

Here is the video link.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/470767/firecracker_rocket_project_experiment/

It is a fire cracker experiment, and I know he will love it, but I am
clueless as to how this makes my car run.

I am unable to look at the video as i am on dial-up.

Before continuing, may i say that firecrackers are dangerous and a
finger, or hand, or eye can be destroyed without the proper care in
handling and use of shielding?

Here is the idea: in the car are pistons (moveable cylindrical
devices) that are sealed in a cylindrical chamber so that they can only
move up and down.
Simplisticly speaking, when they are at the top, a mixture of
gasoline and air is introduced and exploded with a spark.
The resulting pressure pushes the piston down - and that motion is
indirectly transferred to move the car.
A firecracker can be exploded also, and if a fixture is properly
engineered to take advantage of that, the expanding gasses could be used
to impart motion to a wheel (the transfer would be more direct than in a
car).

The engineering of that fixture must be carefully done using
materials that will not be cracked or shattered by the explosion (think
*safety*), and shileding should be added as well, again for safety.

 

[Robert Baer]

SPAM

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Robert Baer wrote:

SPAM

Robert, just killfile anything from @126.com and @163.com, its all
spam.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[android]

"market" <email2market@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1176767132.447179.24810@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...

Find information on RFID companies, RFID equipment, and the medical
advantages of RFID technology. Learn about RFID equipment produced by
the leading RFID ...

http://flying-rugs.com/rfid-tutorial/

Alright

At first I was surprised
http://click.adultsingles.com/partner/click.asp?id=72473&site=ads&typ=click

Honestly I THINK it's wrong

 

[Benj]

John E. wrote:

Some posters to se* post multiple messages (one to each n.g.) rather than
cross-post. Is this just ignorance of proper procedure, or is GG's web
interface not capable of x-posting?

I'd look for myself, but I abhor GG and get hives when I go near it.

I've got hives, but don't have much choice. GG so-called interface
easily cross-posts to a maximum of five (5) groups. That limits
spammers but still allows reasonable discusions where the subject
matter cuts across a number of topics. When replying or posting simply
add the other groups to the "To" list separated by commas. OK?

Benj
(Who thus, had to trim your massive cross-post to five groups)

 

[David Q]

On 21 Apr 2007, Benj <bjacoby@iwaynet.net> wrote:

John E. wrote:
Some posters to se* post multiple messages (one to each n.g.)
rather than cross-post. Is this just ignorance of proper
procedure, or is GG's web interface not capable of x-posting?

I'd look for myself, but I abhor GG and get hives when I go near
it.

I've got hives, but don't have much choice. GG so-called interface
easily cross-posts to a maximum of five (5) groups. That limits
spammers but still allows reasonable discusions where the subject
matter cuts across a number of topics. When replying or posting
simply add the other groups to the "To" list separated by commas.
OK?

Benj
(Who thus, had to trim your massive cross-post to five groups)

Another problem I hit was using the Google groups search engine to
look up a posting by message ID.

This usually works well but when I tried looking up some postings
from Google using their message ID, I found the search would not work
even though these postings can be found when the thread they are in
is viewed.

Is this common?

 

[JeffM]

David Q wrote:

Another problem I hit was using the Google groups search engine
to look up a posting by message ID.

Next time try this:
Go to alt.test.
Start a new thread.
Make the 1st line: x-no-archive: yes
On the 2nd line, put the Message ID like this:
news:0001HW.C24BA2FF0020447AF01826C8@news.sf.sbcglobal.net
Post the message.
Wait a bit. (Google Groups' latency
is often somewhere between lousy and miserable lately.)[1]
Refresh the alt.test Topics page.
Open your thread.
Click the link that Google has generated.
Profit!

[1]
http://www.google.com/search?q=Google.Groups+*.*.*.*.dubious.*.using.them.for.business.and.other.critical.applications+*-*-*-*-problems-with-it-*-s-*-Groups-*+6am+6pm+its.infrastructure+effect.on.service+no.service+lost.data

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

JeffM wrote:

http://www.google.com/search?q=Google.Groups+*.*.*.*.dubious.*.using.them.for.business.and.other.critical.applications+*-*-*-*-problems-with-it-*-s-*-Groups-*+6am+6pm+its.infrastructure+effect.on.service+no.service+lost.data

It looks like their latest update has trashed the whole system. No
new messages since about 8:00 PM (EST) yesterday.

Wouldn't that have been around 5:00 PM at their headquarters? It
almost looks deliberate. Maybe this is their solution to all of the
Google Groups spam complaints?



--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Long Ranger]

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:4630060E.4104A5B9@earthlink.net...

JeffM wrote:
http://www.google.com/search?q=Google.Groups+*.*.*.*.dubious.*.using.them.for.business.and.other.critical.applications+*-*-*-*-problems-with-it-*-s-*-Groups-*+6am+6pm+its.infrastructure+effect.on.service+no.service+lost.data


It looks like their latest update has trashed the whole system. No
new messages since about 8:00 PM (EST) yesterday.

Wouldn't that have been around 5:00 PM at their headquarters? It
almost looks deliberate. Maybe this is their solution to all of the
Google Groups spam complaints?



--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

But did you get the T-shirt?

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Long Ranger wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:4630060E.4104A5B9@earthlink.net...
JeffM wrote:
http://www.google.com/search?q=Google.Groups+*.*.*.*.dubious.*.using.them.for.business.and.other.critical.applications+*-*-*-*-problems-with-it-*-s-*-Groups-*+6am+6pm+its.infrastructure+effect.on.service+no.service+lost.data


It looks like their latest update has trashed the whole system. No
new messages since about 8:00 PM (EST) yesterday.

Wouldn't that have been around 5:00 PM at their headquarters? It
almost looks deliberate. Maybe this is their solution to all of the
Google Groups spam complaints?



--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

But did you get the T-shirt?

Which T shirt? The standard OD green ones, or my A-12-5 unit T shirt
from basic training? They have all been worn out and gone for over 30
years.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[JeffM]

JeffM wrote:

http://www.google.com/search?q=Google.Groups+*.*.*.*.dubious.*.using.them.for.business.and.other.critical.applications+*-*-*-*-problems-with-it-*-s-*-Groups-*+6am+6pm+its.infrastructure+effect.on.service+no.service+lost.data

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
It looks like their latest update has trashed the whole system.

One of the things that I thought as well.

No new messages since about 8:00 PM (EST) yesterday.

It was frozen at 6:34AM PST until ~3:30PM PST the following day.

Maybe this is their solution to all of the Google Groups spam complaints?

Don't go thinking that didn't cross my mind.

It appears, however, that the profit to be made is too big an
enticement.

Hell, they bought YouTube knowing full well
that the only thing keeping opportunists from trying
to sue the pants off that operation had been a lack of deep pockets.