Lithium Ion standard batteries

[Damian]

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
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"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
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"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
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"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
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On 2014-02-15, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:


"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ldmo4s$rus$4@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2014-02-14, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:


"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:ldju4q$fbc$1@dont-email.me...

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bm4kj0Fjl40U1@mid.individual.net...


"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:ldj448$tds$1@dont-email.me...

"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ldig19$rtf$2@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2014-02-12, Damian <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

And a one with a 'built in' buck converter won't be the
standard
AA,
AAA
size, right?

could be a 2/3 or 3/4 length AA size with the converter making
up the
rest of the
length.

The whole thing can be packaged to look like a AA or AAA 1.2-1.5V
rechargeable Lithium Ion battery.
But, I don't see them anywhere!!!

Because of the difficulty with charging those in that format.

So, in a nutshell, buck converter gets in the way when it comes to
charging sucha hypothetical battery?

Doesn't have to, but until someone does an ic that
does that auto, it is a problem with offering that.

what about those USB charged AA batteries?

There is no such animal.

http://search.jaycar.com.au/search?w=%20SB1755&view=list


they seem like a good fit for lithium ion, charge at
4.5-5.5V discharge through different terminals at 1.5V

There are no different terminals with AA and AAA batteries.

there are on these ones.

these are NiMH, but a lithium version could be done.

No, because USB does not provided the charging protocol you
need for lithium ion.

By that you meant, charging protocol for my 'hypothetical' AA/AAA 1.5V
Lithium Ion battery(which has a built in buck converter)?
Right?

More that the Lithium Ion battery behind the buck
converter still needs the lithium ion charging protocol.

We do charge mobile phone lithium ion batteries(3.7V) with USB.

Sure, but in that case USB is just the source of the current used to
charge
the lithium ion batterys and the phone provides the charging protocol.

Yes, an IC instead of the buck converter could to that with a lithium ion
AA or AAA battery, but then we are back to what I originally said, the
lack
of an ic to do that.

So, I'm guessing, it can't be that hard for somebody to come up with a
charger to charge such 'hypothetical' batteries?

Impossible actually with the buck converter getting in the way of charging
it.

Yes, that could certainly be replaced with an ic as I originally said.

The mere fact we're talking about means such IC should exist already in a
lab somewhere or even in production.

Hopefully we should be able see it soon.
>

 

[Rod Speed]

"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:le00js$ibd$1@dont-email.me...

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
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"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
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"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
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"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ldojrq$cj8$1@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2014-02-15, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:


"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ldmo4s$rus$4@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2014-02-14, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:


"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:ldju4q$fbc$1@dont-email.me...

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bm4kj0Fjl40U1@mid.individual.net...


"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:ldj448$tds$1@dont-email.me...

"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ldig19$rtf$2@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2014-02-12, Damian <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

And a one with a 'built in' buck converter won't be the
standard
AA,
AAA
size, right?

could be a 2/3 or 3/4 length AA size with the converter making
up the
rest of the
length.

The whole thing can be packaged to look like a AA or AAA
1.2-1.5V
rechargeable Lithium Ion battery.
But, I don't see them anywhere!!!

Because of the difficulty with charging those in that format.

So, in a nutshell, buck converter gets in the way when it comes to
charging sucha hypothetical battery?

Doesn't have to, but until someone does an ic that
does that auto, it is a problem with offering that.

what about those USB charged AA batteries?

There is no such animal.

http://search.jaycar.com.au/search?w=%20SB1755&view=list


they seem like a good fit for lithium ion, charge at
4.5-5.5V discharge through different terminals at 1.5V

There are no different terminals with AA and AAA batteries.

there are on these ones.

these are NiMH, but a lithium version could be done.

No, because USB does not provided the charging protocol you
need for lithium ion.

By that you meant, charging protocol for my 'hypothetical' AA/AAA 1.5V
Lithium Ion battery(which has a built in buck converter)?
Right?

More that the Lithium Ion battery behind the buck
converter still needs the lithium ion charging protocol.

We do charge mobile phone lithium ion batteries(3.7V) with USB.

Sure, but in that case USB is just the source of the current used to
charge
the lithium ion batterys and the phone provides the charging protocol.

Yes, an IC instead of the buck converter could to that with a lithium ion
AA or AAA battery, but then we are back to what I originally said, the
lack
of an ic to do that.

So, I'm guessing, it can't be that hard for somebody to come up with a
charger to charge such 'hypothetical' batteries?

Impossible actually with the buck converter getting in the way of
charging it.

Yes, that could certainly be replaced with an ic as I originally said.

The mere fact we're talking about means such IC should exist already in a
lab somewhere or even in production.

Dunno, after saying that I did wonder how feasible it is to do that sort
of current thru an ic that will fit in a AAA battery and leave enough
room for a decent lithium ion battery as well.

> Hopefully we should be able see it soon.

I doubt we will myself. I bet we will just see devices that handle
3.7V fine and need no buck converter or charging ic either because
you put the AA or AAA cell in a dedicated lithium ion charger and
can use the entire space in the battery for the lithium ion battery.

 

[Damian]

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
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"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
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"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
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"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
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"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bma8kdFpl8eU1@mid.individual.net...


"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ldojrq$cj8$1@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2014-02-15, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:


"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ldmo4s$rus$4@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2014-02-14, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:


"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:ldju4q$fbc$1@dont-email.me...

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bm4kj0Fjl40U1@mid.individual.net...


"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:ldj448$tds$1@dont-email.me...

"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ldig19$rtf$2@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2014-02-12, Damian <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

And a one with a 'built in' buck converter won't be the
standard
AA,
AAA
size, right?

could be a 2/3 or 3/4 length AA size with the converter making
up the
rest of the
length.

The whole thing can be packaged to look like a AA or AAA
1.2-1.5V
rechargeable Lithium Ion battery.
But, I don't see them anywhere!!!

Because of the difficulty with charging those in that format.

So, in a nutshell, buck converter gets in the way when it comes
to
charging sucha hypothetical battery?

Doesn't have to, but until someone does an ic that
does that auto, it is a problem with offering that.

what about those USB charged AA batteries?

There is no such animal.

http://search.jaycar.com.au/search?w=%20SB1755&view=list


they seem like a good fit for lithium ion, charge at
4.5-5.5V discharge through different terminals at 1.5V

There are no different terminals with AA and AAA batteries.

there are on these ones.

these are NiMH, but a lithium version could be done.

No, because USB does not provided the charging protocol you
need for lithium ion.

By that you meant, charging protocol for my 'hypothetical' AA/AAA 1.5V
Lithium Ion battery(which has a built in buck converter)?
Right?

More that the Lithium Ion battery behind the buck
converter still needs the lithium ion charging protocol.

We do charge mobile phone lithium ion batteries(3.7V) with USB.

Sure, but in that case USB is just the source of the current used to
charge
the lithium ion batterys and the phone provides the charging protocol.

Yes, an IC instead of the buck converter could to that with a lithium
ion
AA or AAA battery, but then we are back to what I originally said, the
lack
of an ic to do that.

So, I'm guessing, it can't be that hard for somebody to come up with a
charger to charge such 'hypothetical' batteries?

Impossible actually with the buck converter getting in the way of
charging it.

Yes, that could certainly be replaced with an ic as I originally said.

The mere fact we're talking about means such IC should exist already in a
lab somewhere or even in production.

Dunno, after saying that I did wonder how feasible it is to do that sort
of current thru an ic that will fit in a AAA battery and leave enough
room for a decent lithium ion battery as well.

Hopefully we should be able see it soon.

I doubt we will myself. I bet we will just see devices that handle
3.7V fine and need no buck converter or charging ic either because
you put the AA or AAA cell in a dedicated lithium ion charger and
can use the entire space in the battery for the lithium ion battery.

That is quite a switch. Most stuff these days work on 1.5V AA/AAA or
multiples of it.

Personally, I would love to see, AA/AAA 1.5 V Lithium Ion bats.
That would make my day.

 

[Rod Speed]

"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:le65k1$qbv$1@dont-email.me...

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bmhtpaFeghrU1@mid.individual.net...


"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:le00js$ibd$1@dont-email.me...

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bmg0ncF1sdvU1@mid.individual.net...


"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:ldu856$tv8$1@dont-email.me...

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bma8kdFpl8eU1@mid.individual.net...


"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ldojrq$cj8$1@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2014-02-15, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:


"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ldmo4s$rus$4@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2014-02-14, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:


"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:ldju4q$fbc$1@dont-email.me...

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bm4kj0Fjl40U1@mid.individual.net...


"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:ldj448$tds$1@dont-email.me...

"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ldig19$rtf$2@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2014-02-12, Damian <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

And a one with a 'built in' buck converter won't be the
standard
AA,
AAA
size, right?

could be a 2/3 or 3/4 length AA size with the converter
making up the
rest of the
length.

The whole thing can be packaged to look like a AA or AAA
1.2-1.5V
rechargeable Lithium Ion battery.
But, I don't see them anywhere!!!

Because of the difficulty with charging those in that format.

So, in a nutshell, buck converter gets in the way when it comes
to
charging sucha hypothetical battery?

Doesn't have to, but until someone does an ic that
does that auto, it is a problem with offering that.

what about those USB charged AA batteries?

There is no such animal.

http://search.jaycar.com.au/search?w=%20SB1755&view=list


they seem like a good fit for lithium ion, charge at
4.5-5.5V discharge through different terminals at 1.5V

There are no different terminals with AA and AAA batteries.

there are on these ones.

these are NiMH, but a lithium version could be done.

No, because USB does not provided the charging protocol you
need for lithium ion.

By that you meant, charging protocol for my 'hypothetical' AA/AAA
1.5V Lithium Ion battery(which has a built in buck converter)?
Right?

More that the Lithium Ion battery behind the buck
converter still needs the lithium ion charging protocol.

We do charge mobile phone lithium ion batteries(3.7V) with USB.

Sure, but in that case USB is just the source of the current used to
charge
the lithium ion batterys and the phone provides the charging protocol.

Yes, an IC instead of the buck converter could to that with a lithium
ion
AA or AAA battery, but then we are back to what I originally said, the
lack
of an ic to do that.

So, I'm guessing, it can't be that hard for somebody to come up with a
charger to charge such 'hypothetical' batteries?

Impossible actually with the buck converter getting in the way of
charging it.

Yes, that could certainly be replaced with an ic as I originally said.

The mere fact we're talking about means such IC should exist already in
a lab somewhere or even in production.

Dunno, after saying that I did wonder how feasible it is to do that sort
of current thru an ic that will fit in a AAA battery and leave enough
room for a decent lithium ion battery as well.

Hopefully we should be able see it soon.

I doubt we will myself. I bet we will just see devices that handle
3.7V fine and need no buck converter or charging ic either because
you put the AA or AAA cell in a dedicated lithium ion charger and
can use the entire space in the battery for the lithium ion battery.

That is quite a switch.

Nope.

> Most stuff these days work on 1.5V AA/AAA or multiples of it.

Most stuff these days has an internal lithium ion battery.

Personally, I would love to see, AA/AAA 1.5 V Lithium Ion bats.
That would make my day.

I couldn’t care less, because most stuff has an internal lithium ion
battery.

I did at one time deliberately choose to buy stuff that used AA or AAA
cells,
but don’t bother with that approach anymore. Even with stuff like scales,
most stuff uses coin cells now.

 

[Damian]

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bmo5htFo5u6U1@mid.individual.net...

"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:le65k1$qbv$1@dont-email.me...

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
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"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:le00js$ibd$1@dont-email.me...

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bmg0ncF1sdvU1@mid.individual.net...


"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:ldu856$tv8$1@dont-email.me...

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bma8kdFpl8eU1@mid.individual.net...


"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ldojrq$cj8$1@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2014-02-15, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:


"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ldmo4s$rus$4@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2014-02-14, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:


"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:ldju4q$fbc$1@dont-email.me...

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bm4kj0Fjl40U1@mid.individual.net...


"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:ldj448$tds$1@dont-email.me...

"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ldig19$rtf$2@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2014-02-12, Damian <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

And a one with a 'built in' buck converter won't be the
standard
AA,
AAA
size, right?

could be a 2/3 or 3/4 length AA size with the converter
making up the
rest of the
length.

The whole thing can be packaged to look like a AA or AAA
1.2-1.5V
rechargeable Lithium Ion battery.
But, I don't see them anywhere!!!

Because of the difficulty with charging those in that format.

So, in a nutshell, buck converter gets in the way when it comes
to
charging sucha hypothetical battery?

Doesn't have to, but until someone does an ic that
does that auto, it is a problem with offering that.

what about those USB charged AA batteries?

There is no such animal.

http://search.jaycar.com.au/search?w=%20SB1755&view=list


they seem like a good fit for lithium ion, charge at
4.5-5.5V discharge through different terminals at 1.5V

There are no different terminals with AA and AAA batteries.

there are on these ones.

these are NiMH, but a lithium version could be done.

No, because USB does not provided the charging protocol you
need for lithium ion.

By that you meant, charging protocol for my 'hypothetical' AA/AAA
1.5V Lithium Ion battery(which has a built in buck converter)?
Right?

More that the Lithium Ion battery behind the buck
converter still needs the lithium ion charging protocol.

We do charge mobile phone lithium ion batteries(3.7V) with USB.

Sure, but in that case USB is just the source of the current used to
charge
the lithium ion batterys and the phone provides the charging protocol.

Yes, an IC instead of the buck converter could to that with a lithium
ion
AA or AAA battery, but then we are back to what I originally said, the
lack
of an ic to do that.

So, I'm guessing, it can't be that hard for somebody to come up with
a charger to charge such 'hypothetical' batteries?

Impossible actually with the buck converter getting in the way of
charging it.

Yes, that could certainly be replaced with an ic as I originally said.

The mere fact we're talking about means such IC should exist already in
a lab somewhere or even in production.

Dunno, after saying that I did wonder how feasible it is to do that sort
of current thru an ic that will fit in a AAA battery and leave enough
room for a decent lithium ion battery as well.

Hopefully we should be able see it soon.

I doubt we will myself. I bet we will just see devices that handle
3.7V fine and need no buck converter or charging ic either because
you put the AA or AAA cell in a dedicated lithium ion charger and
can use the entire space in the battery for the lithium ion battery.

That is quite a switch.

Nope.

Most stuff these days work on 1.5V AA/AAA or multiples of it.

Most stuff these days has an internal lithium ion battery.

Yes, you're right, that is the future and current tendancy, but there are
no standards. They all are different sizes.
The physical dimensions come out the rear end of the designers who work for
the companies, be it mobile phones, cameras, GPS navigators, etc.
That makes it difficult to source replacement batteries in an emergency
situation.
where as AA/AAA batteries are widely available. When there are rechargebles
unavailable, you can always find non rechargeable alkalines or lithiums.
My 14 year old digital camera which I paid nearly thousand bucks, works on
AA batteries, be it Lithium Iron, Alkanline, NiMH, NiCD, etc.
Same with my Fujifilm DSLR camera.
They are still damn useful to me everywhere I go, and no dramas with flat
batteries 'cos I always have backup ones, where ever I go.
Just need to walk into a servo or milk bar, in case if I run out of
batteries, etc.

Personally, I would love to see, AA/AAA 1.5 V Lithium Ion bats.
That would make my day.

I couldn’t care less, because most stuff has an internal lithium ion
battery.

Correct, but no standards. Million batteries in million different sizes, let
alone voltages(luckily, not so due to lithium ion voltage limitations)

If the companies come to agreement and standardize the battery dimensions
and perhaps voltage mutipliers, life will be lot easier for professionals
and the amateurs alike.

I did at one time deliberately choose to buy stuff that used AA or AAA
cells,
but don’t bother with that approach anymore. Even with stuff like scales,
most stuff uses coin cells now.

And they are standard ones. Companies don't make the size of those coin
lithiums out of their rear end.
Shoudl be the same for mobile phones, cameras, etc.
>

 

[Rod Speed]

"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
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"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
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"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
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"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
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"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
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"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
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"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
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"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ldojrq$cj8$1@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2014-02-15, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:


"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ldmo4s$rus$4@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2014-02-14, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:


"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:ldju4q$fbc$1@dont-email.me...

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bm4kj0Fjl40U1@mid.individual.net...


"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:ldj448$tds$1@dont-email.me...

"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ldig19$rtf$2@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2014-02-12, Damian <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au
wrote:

And a one with a 'built in' buck converter won't be the
standard
AA,
AAA
size, right?

could be a 2/3 or 3/4 length AA size with the converter
making up the
rest of the
length.

The whole thing can be packaged to look like a AA or AAA
1.2-1.5V
rechargeable Lithium Ion battery.
But, I don't see them anywhere!!!

Because of the difficulty with charging those in that format.

So, in a nutshell, buck converter gets in the way when it
comes to
charging sucha hypothetical battery?

Doesn't have to, but until someone does an ic that
does that auto, it is a problem with offering that.

what about those USB charged AA batteries?

There is no such animal.

http://search.jaycar.com.au/search?w=%20SB1755&view=list


they seem like a good fit for lithium ion, charge at
4.5-5.5V discharge through different terminals at 1.5V

There are no different terminals with AA and AAA batteries.

there are on these ones.

these are NiMH, but a lithium version could be done.

No, because USB does not provided the charging protocol you
need for lithium ion.

By that you meant, charging protocol for my 'hypothetical' AA/AAA
1.5V Lithium Ion battery(which has a built in buck converter)?
Right?

More that the Lithium Ion battery behind the buck
converter still needs the lithium ion charging protocol.

We do charge mobile phone lithium ion batteries(3.7V) with USB.

Sure, but in that case USB is just the source of the current used to
charge
the lithium ion batterys and the phone provides the charging
protocol.

Yes, an IC instead of the buck converter could to that with a lithium
ion
AA or AAA battery, but then we are back to what I originally said,
the lack
of an ic to do that.

So, I'm guessing, it can't be that hard for somebody to come up with
a charger to charge such 'hypothetical' batteries?

Impossible actually with the buck converter getting in the way of
charging it.

Yes, that could certainly be replaced with an ic as I originally
said.

The mere fact we're talking about means such IC should exist already
in a lab somewhere or even in production.

Dunno, after saying that I did wonder how feasible it is to do that
sort
of current thru an ic that will fit in a AAA battery and leave enough
room for a decent lithium ion battery as well.

Hopefully we should be able see it soon.

I doubt we will myself. I bet we will just see devices that handle
3.7V fine and need no buck converter or charging ic either because
you put the AA or AAA cell in a dedicated lithium ion charger and
can use the entire space in the battery for the lithium ion battery.

That is quite a switch.

Nope.

Most stuff these days work on 1.5V AA/AAA or multiples of it.

Most stuff these days has an internal lithium ion battery.

Yes, you're right, that is the future and current tendancy, but there are
no standards. They all are different sizes.

Sure, but all we need is a few standard sizes, not any fancy new technology.

The physical dimensions come out the rear end of the designers who work
for the companies, be it mobile phones, cameras, GPS navigators, etc.

They mostly concentrate on making the device very
thin for some stupid reason with mobile phones etc.

That makes it difficult to source replacement batteries in an emergency
situation.

You don’t get many emergency situations and with
those the obvious thing to do is get the replacement
when you get the device so its readily available.

> where as AA/AAA batteries are widely available.

But not in lithium ion.

When there are rechargebles unavailable, you can always find non
rechargeable alkalines or lithiums.

But mobile phones are too bulky if they take those.
So it makes a lot more sense to have a replaceable
lithium ion battery in a different format instead.

My 14 year old digital camera which I paid nearly thousand bucks, works on
AA batteries, be it Lithium Iron, Alkanline, NiMH, NiCD, etc.

And there are much better cameras around now with build
in lithium ion batterys or replaceable lithium ion batterys.

> Same with my Fujifilm DSLR camera.

Ditto.

They are still damn useful to me everywhere I go, and no dramas with flat
batteries 'cos I always have backup ones, where ever I go.

Mobile phones handle that situation fine without using the AA/AAA format.

Just need to walk into a servo or milk bar, in case if I run out of
batteries, etc.

Makes a lot more sense to carry enough batterys and a charger.

Personally, I would love to see, AA/AAA 1.5 V Lithium Ion bats.
That would make my day.

I couldn’t care less, because most stuff has an internal lithium ion
battery.

Correct, but no standards.

So the answer to that is a couple of standards, not AA/AAA lithium ion
batterys.

Million batteries in million different sizes, let alone voltages
(luckily, not so due to lithium ion voltage limitations)

So the answer to that is a couple of standards, not AA/AAA lithium ion
batterys.

If the companies come to agreement and standardize the battery dimensions
and perhaps voltage mutipliers, life will be lot easier for professionals
and the amateurs alike.

In practice they just do it the other way, make it easy to use an external
power pack.

That gives a much better result than allowing you
to get some more at a supermarket anywhere.

I did at one time deliberately choose to buy stuff that used AA or AAA
cells, but don’t bother with that approach anymore. Even with stuff like
scales, most stuff uses coin cells now.

And they are standard ones. Companies don't make the size of those coin
lithiums out of their rear end.
Shoudl be the same for mobile phones, cameras, etc.

The reason it isnt done that was is because most of them
have an internal battery instead and a way to charge that.

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 21/02/14 11:11, Damian wrote:

Personally, I would love to see, AA/AAA 1.5 V Lithium Ion bats.
That would make my day.

I have devices that need 2 AA's in series, and I have been happily using
one 3.4V AA-format LiFEPO4 cell with one "blank" cell - just a bit of
wire inside an empty shell case, sold for the express purpose of pairing
up with a Li cell. These are quite easy to find, and the specialised
chargers are cheap. Any device that uses 2xAA will survive 3.4V from one
Li cell - just make sure you don't fit two!

LiFePO4 cells have a bit less energy density than other Li's, but are
safer. Overall energy of one cell is less than 2 non-rechargables and
even 2 MiMH, but the cells last well.

Clifford Heath.

 

[Damian]

"Clifford Heath" <no.spam@please.net> wrote in message
news:SCAOu.32196$EX3.20713@fx11.iad...

On 21/02/14 11:11, Damian wrote:
[SNIP]
Personally, I would love to see, AA/AAA 1.5 V Lithium Ion bats.
That would make my day.

I have devices that need 2 AA's in series, and I have been happily using
one 3.4V AA-format LiFEPO4 cell with one "blank" cell - just a bit of wire
inside an empty shell case, sold for the express purpose of pairing up
with a Li cell. These are quite easy to find, and the specialised chargers
are cheap. Any device that uses 2xAA will survive 3.4V from one Li cell -
just make sure you don't fit two!

Hmm... that sounds good. where do you get them from?!

LiFePO4 cells have a bit less energy density than other Li's, but are
safer. Overall energy of one cell is less than 2 non-rechargables and even
2 MiMH, but the cells last well.

If the energy of a once cell is less than 2 non-rechargables, then it's not
that use.
Is it possible to fit in two cells inside an empty AA case?

There are D size cases available on ebay to use with AA.
I haven't seen AA size empty cases.

 

[Rod Speed]

"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
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news:ldojrq$cj8$1@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2014-02-15, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:


"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ldmo4s$rus$4@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2014-02-14, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:


"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:ldju4q$fbc$1@dont-email.me...

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bm4kj0Fjl40U1@mid.individual.net...


"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:ldj448$tds$1@dont-email.me...

"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ldig19$rtf$2@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2014-02-12, Damian <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au
wrote:

And a one with a 'built in' buck converter won't be the
standard
AA,
AAA
size, right?

could be a 2/3 or 3/4 length AA size with the converter
making up the
rest of the
length.

The whole thing can be packaged to look like a AA or AAA
1.2-1.5V
rechargeable Lithium Ion battery.
But, I don't see them anywhere!!!

Because of the difficulty with charging those in that
format.

So, in a nutshell, buck converter gets in the way when it
comes to
charging sucha hypothetical battery?

Doesn't have to, but until someone does an ic that
does that auto, it is a problem with offering that.

what about those USB charged AA batteries?

There is no such animal.

http://search.jaycar.com.au/search?w=%20SB1755&view=list


they seem like a good fit for lithium ion, charge at
4.5-5.5V discharge through different terminals at 1.5V

There are no different terminals with AA and AAA batteries.

there are on these ones.

these are NiMH, but a lithium version could be done.

No, because USB does not provided the charging protocol you
need for lithium ion.

By that you meant, charging protocol for my 'hypothetical' AA/AAA
1.5V Lithium Ion battery(which has a built in buck converter)?
Right?

More that the Lithium Ion battery behind the buck
converter still needs the lithium ion charging protocol.

We do charge mobile phone lithium ion batteries(3.7V) with USB.

Sure, but in that case USB is just the source of the current used
to charge
the lithium ion batterys and the phone provides the charging
protocol.

Yes, an IC instead of the buck converter could to that with a
lithium ion
AA or AAA battery, but then we are back to what I originally said,
the lack
of an ic to do that.

So, I'm guessing, it can't be that hard for somebody to come up
with a charger to charge such 'hypothetical' batteries?

Impossible actually with the buck converter getting in the way of
charging it.

Yes, that could certainly be replaced with an ic as I originally
said.

The mere fact we're talking about means such IC should exist already
in a lab somewhere or even in production.

Dunno, after saying that I did wonder how feasible it is to do that
sort
of current thru an ic that will fit in a AAA battery and leave enough
room for a decent lithium ion battery as well.

Hopefully we should be able see it soon.

I doubt we will myself. I bet we will just see devices that handle
3.7V fine and need no buck converter or charging ic either because
you put the AA or AAA cell in a dedicated lithium ion charger and
can use the entire space in the battery for the lithium ion battery.

That is quite a switch.

Nope.

Most stuff these days work on 1.5V AA/AAA or multiples of it.

Most stuff these days has an internal lithium ion battery.

Yes, you're right, that is the future and current tendancy, but there
are no standards. They all are different sizes.

Sure, but all we need is a few standard sizes, not any fancy new
technology.

The physical dimensions come out the rear end of the designers who work
for the companies, be it mobile phones, cameras, GPS navigators, etc.

They mostly concentrate on making the device very
thin for some stupid reason with mobile phones etc.

I can understand AA and, may be even AAA sizes aren't gonna fit into thin
mobiles these days(so we can easily break them and lose them)
But, with Video cameras, digital cameras, etc, we don't need to be that
desperate to miniaturize the batteries.

Sure, but it makes no sense to use AA or AAA batterys when
lithium ion batterys produce a much better result in those.

That makes it difficult to source replacement batteries in an emergency
situation.

You don’t get many emergency situations and with
those the obvious thing to do is get the replacement
when you get the device so its readily available.

Nothing like being able to walk into a milk bar hut and buy the batteries
for your devices.

Nothing to stop you doing that and putting them
into a charger for your device if you want to do that.

The better systems have replaceable lithium ion batterys
so anyone with even half a clue does that instead.

I can still do that 'cos I'm stil using an 'antique' DSLR and a digital
camera.

And get to wear the shit result you get with those
because they have such dinosaur battery technology.

where as AA/AAA batteries are widely available.

But not in lithium ion.

Not yet, but as you pointed out it may happen sometime soon.

I doubt it ever will with milkbars etc just because there just
arent that many devices that they are usable in anymore.

When there are rechargebles unavailable, you can always find non
rechargeable alkalines or lithiums.

But mobile phones are too bulky if they take those.
So it makes a lot more sense to have a replaceable
lithium ion battery in a different format instead.

My 14 year old digital camera which I paid nearly thousand bucks, works
on AA batteries, be it Lithium Iron, Alkanline, NiMH, NiCD, etc.

And there are much better cameras around now with build
in lithium ion batterys or replaceable lithium ion batterys.

Much better in size, which doesn't make a damn difference to me.

Much better in performance in every way too, which should.

> My 14 year old digital camera still fits inside my side pocket.

Most of us just use our much better phone cameras instead.

I haven't seen a miniaturized DSLR, other than using non standard and
probably more powerful lithium ion bats. The digital zoom is just a
useless gimmick.

Bullshit.

Same with my Fujifilm DSLR camera.

Ditto.

They are still damn useful to me everywhere I go, and no dramas with
flat batteries 'cos I always have backup ones, where ever I go.

Mobile phones handle that situation fine without using the AA/AAA format.

How so?!

They allow you to swap the lithium ion battery if you need to.

I had to buy a rechargeable battery banks for the iphone and the android
tablet.
Without that, they're useless.

Bullshit.

> Battery won't last anymore than a day on high use.

Bullshit.

Just need to walk into a servo or milk bar, in case if I run out of
batteries, etc.

Makes a lot more sense to carry enough batterys and a charger.

It does with the current trend.

It always will do.

I don't see any use of standard AA/AAA size batteries in any devices, if
the current trend to continue this way.

They will still be used in some things like remotes.

> Now, 18650 Lithium Ion bats are becoming more popular for torches, etc,

Because those need the better battery performance.

> while the AA/AAA is becoming a relic,

Not with some devices like remotes and other low powered devices.

'cos they haven't come up with a way to produce AA/AAA 1.5V bats in
Lithium Ion technology.

It isnt even possible. The best that will ever be possible
is to have a built in buck converter and charger.

Personally, I would love to see, AA/AAA 1.5 V Lithium Ion bats.
That would make my day.

I couldn’t care less, because most stuff has an internal lithium ion
battery.

Correct, but no standards.

So the answer to that is a couple of standards, not AA/AAA lithium ion
batterys.

Million batteries in million different sizes, let alone voltages
(luckily, not so due to lithium ion voltage limitations)

So the answer to that is a couple of standards, not AA/AAA lithium ion
batterys.

I dunno.

I do.

> It they can do that, yes, but that may make AA/AAA bats an antique.

Unlikely given that they do make sense for some things like remotes.

Other solution is to come up with AA/AAA Lithium Ions in standard
voltage(1.5)

Not even possible.

> There are some advantages of batteries being cylindrical.

None that make up for the loss of capacity because
of the built in buck converter and charging ic.

If the companies come to agreement and standardize the battery
dimensions and perhaps voltage mutipliers, life will be lot easier for
professionals and the amateurs alike.

In practice they just do it the other way, make it easy to use an
external power pack.

That's what I do now.

And that works fine. You can even get some that use standard
AA cells to provide what the device needs to charge it.

That gives a much better result than allowing you
to get some more at a supermarket anywhere.

If they can make external battery banks available in supermarkets and milk
bar huts everwhere, then it would make it practical

Don’t need to, all we need is external battery banks that take AA
and AAA cells and those have been available for a long time now.

I did at one time deliberately choose to buy stuff that used AA or AAA
cells, but don’t bother with that approach anymore. Even with stuff
like scales, most stuff uses coin cells now.

And they are standard ones. Companies don't make the size of those coin
lithiums out of their rear end.
Shoudl be the same for mobile phones, cameras, etc.

The reason it isnt done that was is because most of them
have an internal battery instead and a way to charge that.

I dunno about most of them. iphones and many GPS units have that approach.

All tablets and mobile phones.

 

[Damian]

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
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"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ldojrq$cj8$1@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2014-02-15, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:


"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ldmo4s$rus$4@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2014-02-14, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:


"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:ldju4q$fbc$1@dont-email.me...

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bm4kj0Fjl40U1@mid.individual.net...


"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:ldj448$tds$1@dont-email.me...

"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ldig19$rtf$2@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2014-02-12, Damian <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au
wrote:

And a one with a 'built in' buck converter won't be the
standard
AA,
AAA
size, right?

could be a 2/3 or 3/4 length AA size with the converter
making up the
rest of the
length.

The whole thing can be packaged to look like a AA or AAA
1.2-1.5V
rechargeable Lithium Ion battery.
But, I don't see them anywhere!!!

Because of the difficulty with charging those in that
format.

So, in a nutshell, buck converter gets in the way when it
comes to
charging sucha hypothetical battery?

Doesn't have to, but until someone does an ic that
does that auto, it is a problem with offering that.

what about those USB charged AA batteries?

There is no such animal.

http://search.jaycar.com.au/search?w=%20SB1755&view=list


they seem like a good fit for lithium ion, charge at
4.5-5.5V discharge through different terminals at 1.5V

There are no different terminals with AA and AAA batteries.

there are on these ones.

these are NiMH, but a lithium version could be done.

No, because USB does not provided the charging protocol you
need for lithium ion.

By that you meant, charging protocol for my 'hypothetical' AA/AAA
1.5V Lithium Ion battery(which has a built in buck converter)?
Right?

More that the Lithium Ion battery behind the buck
converter still needs the lithium ion charging protocol.

We do charge mobile phone lithium ion batteries(3.7V) with USB.

Sure, but in that case USB is just the source of the current used to
charge
the lithium ion batterys and the phone provides the charging
protocol.

Yes, an IC instead of the buck converter could to that with a
lithium ion
AA or AAA battery, but then we are back to what I originally said,
the lack
of an ic to do that.

So, I'm guessing, it can't be that hard for somebody to come up
with a charger to charge such 'hypothetical' batteries?

Impossible actually with the buck converter getting in the way of
charging it.

Yes, that could certainly be replaced with an ic as I originally
said.

The mere fact we're talking about means such IC should exist already
in a lab somewhere or even in production.

Dunno, after saying that I did wonder how feasible it is to do that
sort
of current thru an ic that will fit in a AAA battery and leave enough
room for a decent lithium ion battery as well.

Hopefully we should be able see it soon.

I doubt we will myself. I bet we will just see devices that handle
3.7V fine and need no buck converter or charging ic either because
you put the AA or AAA cell in a dedicated lithium ion charger and
can use the entire space in the battery for the lithium ion battery.

That is quite a switch.

Nope.

Most stuff these days work on 1.5V AA/AAA or multiples of it.

Most stuff these days has an internal lithium ion battery.

Yes, you're right, that is the future and current tendancy, but there
are no standards. They all are different sizes.

Sure, but all we need is a few standard sizes, not any fancy new
technology.

The physical dimensions come out the rear end of the designers who work
for the companies, be it mobile phones, cameras, GPS navigators, etc.

They mostly concentrate on making the device very
thin for some stupid reason with mobile phones etc.

I can understand AA and, may be even AAA sizes aren't gonna fit into thin
mobiles these days(so we can easily break them and lose them)
But, with Video cameras, digital cameras, etc, we don't need to be that
desperate to miniaturize
the batteries.

That makes it difficult to source replacement batteries in an emergency
situation.

You don’t get many emergency situations and with
those the obvious thing to do is get the replacement
when you get the device so its readily available.

Nothing like being able to walk into a milk bar hut and buy the batteries
for your devices.
I can still do that 'cos I'm stil using an 'antique' DSLR and a digital
camera.

where as AA/AAA batteries are widely available.

But not in lithium ion.

Not yet, but as you pointed out it may happen sometime soon.

When there are rechargebles unavailable, you can always find non
rechargeable alkalines or lithiums.

But mobile phones are too bulky if they take those.
So it makes a lot more sense to have a replaceable
lithium ion battery in a different format instead.

My 14 year old digital camera which I paid nearly thousand bucks, works
on AA batteries, be it Lithium Iron, Alkanline, NiMH, NiCD, etc.

And there are much better cameras around now with build
in lithium ion batterys or replaceable lithium ion batterys.

Much better in size, which doesn't make a damn difference to me.
My 14 year old digital camera still fits inside my side pocket.
I haven't seen a miniaturized DSLR, other than using non standard and
probably more powerful
lithium ion bats. The digital zoom is just a useless gimmick.

Same with my Fujifilm DSLR camera.

Ditto.

They are still damn useful to me everywhere I go, and no dramas with flat
batteries 'cos I always have backup ones, where ever I go.

Mobile phones handle that situation fine without using the AA/AAA format.

How so?! I had to buy a rechargeable battery banks for the iphone and the
android tablet.
Without that, they're useless. Battery won't last anymore than a day on high
use.

Just need to walk into a servo or milk bar, in case if I run out of
batteries, etc.

Makes a lot more sense to carry enough batterys and a charger.

It does with the current trend.
I don't see any use of standard AA/AAA size batteries in any devices, if the
current trend to continue this way.
Now, 18650 Lithium Ion bats are becoming more popular for torches, etc,
while the AA/AAA is becoming a relic,
'cos they haven't come up with a way to produce AA/AAA 1.5V bats in Lithium
Ion technology.

Personally, I would love to see, AA/AAA 1.5 V Lithium Ion bats.
That would make my day.

I couldn’t care less, because most stuff has an internal lithium ion
battery.

Correct, but no standards.

So the answer to that is a couple of standards, not AA/AAA lithium ion
batterys.

Million batteries in million different sizes, let alone voltages
(luckily, not so due to lithium ion voltage limitations)

So the answer to that is a couple of standards, not AA/AAA lithium ion
batterys.

I dunno. It they can do that, yes, but that may make AA/AAA bats an antique.
Other solution is to come up with AA/AAA Lithium Ions in standard
voltage(1.5)
There are some advantages of batteries being cylindrical.

If the companies come to agreement and standardize the battery dimensions
and perhaps voltage mutipliers, life will be lot easier for professionals
and the amateurs alike.

In practice they just do it the other way, make it easy to use an external
power pack.

That's what I do now.

That gives a much better result than allowing you
to get some more at a supermarket anywhere.

If they can make external battery banks available in supermarkets and milk
bar huts everwhere,
then it would make it practical

I did at one time deliberately choose to buy stuff that used AA or AAA
cells, but don’t bother with that approach anymore. Even with stuff like
scales, most stuff uses coin cells now.

And they are standard ones. Companies don't make the size of those coin
lithiums out of their rear end.
Shoudl be the same for mobile phones, cameras, etc.

The reason it isnt done that was is because most of them
have an internal battery instead and a way to charge that.

I dunno about most of them. iphones and many GPS units have that approach.

>

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 28/02/14 15:34, Damian wrote:

"Clifford Heath" <no.spam@please.net> wrote in message
news:SCAOu.32196$EX3.20713@fx11.iad...
On 21/02/14 11:11, Damian wrote:
[SNIP]
Personally, I would love to see, AA/AAA 1.5 V Lithium Ion bats.
That would make my day.

I have devices that need 2 AA's in series, and I have been happily using
one 3.4V AA-format LiFEPO4 cell with one "blank" cell - just a bit of wire
inside an empty shell case, sold for the express purpose of pairing up
with a Li cell. These are quite easy to find, and the specialised chargers
are cheap. Any device that uses 2xAA will survive 3.4V from one Li cell -
just make sure you don't fit two!

Hmm... that sounds good. where do you get them from?!

I found them on Aliexpress - many suppliers there, e.g.:
<http://www.aliexpress.com/item/4Pcs-Pack-Soshine-14500-3-2V-700mAh-LiFePO4-Rechargeable-Lithium-Battery-With-Battery-Case-free-shipping/914261510.html>

Make sure you get enough dummy cells; some packs ship two dummies with
four real cells, which is ok if you plan to keep two charged cells as
spares for the two in use

and a charger like this, which charges each cell independently:
<http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Soshine-SC-C5-LCD-LiFePO4-14500-10440-NiMH-AA-AAA-Rechargeable-Battery-Charger-Travel-charger-free/1007974393.html>

These might not be the cheapest option, they're just the first that came
up in a search for "Soshine 14500 LiFePO4" (what I bought)

Needless to say, not all the claimed capacity ratings are to be
believed. I bought 700mAH cells which are adequate for my wireless mouse
and keyboard, but there are 1200mAH hour ones advertised. They might
even not be false advertising. Check the feedback.

LiFePO4 cells have a bit less energy density than other Li's, but are
safer. Overall energy of one cell is less than 2 non-rechargables and even
2 MiMH, but the cells last well.

If the energy of a once cell is less than 2 non-rechargables, then it's not
that use.

Why not?

You can get AA NiMH up to 2600mAH, which is >3.1WH, compared to 1200mAH
LiPO4 at 3.8WH (but you can't use two without re-wiring your battery
compartment). So 2x high-capacity NiMH beats 1x LiPO4 easily, but they
die much sooner and don't hold a charge very long, so you have to keep
remembering to top-up your spare cells. For me, the reliability
advantage of LiPO4 wins.

> Is it possible to fit in two cells inside an empty AA case?

2 AA cells? Not unless you're Harry Potter.

There are D size cases available on ebay to use with AA.
I haven't seen AA size empty cases.

Dummy AA cells are sold by every vendor who stocks LiPO4 AA cells.

Clifford Heath.

 

[Damian]

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On 2014-02-15, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:


"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
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On 2014-02-14, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:


"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
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"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
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"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
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"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ldig19$rtf$2@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2014-02-12, Damian <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au
wrote:

And a one with a 'built in' buck converter won't be
the standard
AA,
AAA
size, right?

could be a 2/3 or 3/4 length AA size with the converter
making up the
rest of the
length.

The whole thing can be packaged to look like a AA or AAA
1.2-1.5V
rechargeable Lithium Ion battery.
But, I don't see them anywhere!!!

Because of the difficulty with charging those in that
format.

So, in a nutshell, buck converter gets in the way when it
comes to
charging sucha hypothetical battery?

Doesn't have to, but until someone does an ic that
does that auto, it is a problem with offering that.

what about those USB charged AA batteries?

There is no such animal.

http://search.jaycar.com.au/search?w=%20SB1755&view=list


they seem like a good fit for lithium ion, charge at
4.5-5.5V discharge through different terminals at 1.5V

There are no different terminals with AA and AAA batteries.

there are on these ones.

these are NiMH, but a lithium version could be done.

No, because USB does not provided the charging protocol you
need for lithium ion.

By that you meant, charging protocol for my 'hypothetical'
AA/AAA 1.5V Lithium Ion battery(which has a built in buck
converter)?
Right?

More that the Lithium Ion battery behind the buck
converter still needs the lithium ion charging protocol.

We do charge mobile phone lithium ion batteries(3.7V) with USB.

Sure, but in that case USB is just the source of the current used
to charge
the lithium ion batterys and the phone provides the charging
protocol.

Yes, an IC instead of the buck converter could to that with a
lithium ion
AA or AAA battery, but then we are back to what I originally said,
the lack
of an ic to do that.

So, I'm guessing, it can't be that hard for somebody to come up
with a charger to charge such 'hypothetical' batteries?

Impossible actually with the buck converter getting in the way of
charging it.

Yes, that could certainly be replaced with an ic as I originally
said.

The mere fact we're talking about means such IC should exist
already in a lab somewhere or even in production.

Dunno, after saying that I did wonder how feasible it is to do that
sort
of current thru an ic that will fit in a AAA battery and leave
enough
room for a decent lithium ion battery as well.

Hopefully we should be able see it soon.

I doubt we will myself. I bet we will just see devices that handle
3.7V fine and need no buck converter or charging ic either because
you put the AA or AAA cell in a dedicated lithium ion charger and
can use the entire space in the battery for the lithium ion battery.

That is quite a switch.

Nope.

Most stuff these days work on 1.5V AA/AAA or multiples of it.

Most stuff these days has an internal lithium ion battery.

Yes, you're right, that is the future and current tendancy, but there
are no standards. They all are different sizes.

Sure, but all we need is a few standard sizes, not any fancy new
technology.

The physical dimensions come out the rear end of the designers who work
for the companies, be it mobile phones, cameras, GPS navigators, etc.

They mostly concentrate on making the device very
thin for some stupid reason with mobile phones etc.

I can understand AA and, may be even AAA sizes aren't gonna fit into thin
mobiles these days(so we can easily break them and lose them)
But, with Video cameras, digital cameras, etc, we don't need to be that
desperate to miniaturize the batteries.

Sure, but it makes no sense to use AA or AAA batterys when
lithium ion batterys produce a much better result in those.

That makes it difficult to source replacement batteries in an
emergency situation.

You don’t get many emergency situations and with
those the obvious thing to do is get the replacement
when you get the device so its readily available.

Nothing like being able to walk into a milk bar hut and buy the batteries
for your devices.

Nothing to stop you doing that and putting them
into a charger for your device if you want to do that.

The better systems have replaceable lithium ion batterys
so anyone with even half a clue does that instead.

I can still do that 'cos I'm stil using an 'antique' DSLR and a digital
camera.

And get to wear the shit result you get with those
because they have such dinosaur battery technology.

They aren't that bad. The power efficiency isnt' as good as new ones.
But, I have no problem with that, 'cos AA bats are available everywhere.
I carry rechargeable ones with a charger+inverter in my car.
Newer, Canon G10 I got has a proprietary square lithium iron. It lasts
longer.
But, doesn't have the advance features or the built in zoom like the DSLR.
The old DSLR is pretty 'snug' fit and tough. G10 is easy to drop and
damange easily.
I've already broke the LCD display once.

where as AA/AAA batteries are widely available.

But not in lithium ion.

Not yet, but as you pointed out it may happen sometime soon.

I doubt it ever will with milkbars etc just because there just
arent that many devices that they are usable in anymore.

It looks like that's where the small lithium ion batteries are heading.
AA/AAA may become an antique standard.

When there are rechargebles unavailable, you can always find non
rechargeable alkalines or lithiums.

But mobile phones are too bulky if they take those.
So it makes a lot more sense to have a replaceable
lithium ion battery in a different format instead.

My 14 year old digital camera which I paid nearly thousand bucks, works
on AA batteries, be it Lithium Iron, Alkanline, NiMH, NiCD, etc.

And there are much better cameras around now with build
in lithium ion batterys or replaceable lithium ion batterys.

Much better in size, which doesn't make a damn difference to me.

Much better in performance in every way too, which should.

Dunno. The canon digital camera still produces higher enough mega pixels.
And the SD cards are still available for more memory.
Doesn't make sense throwing away something that's so flexible
and still get the job done.
The old DSLR is still as good as newer ones in terms of zooming capability
and mega pixels.
The newer ones are more energy efficient, but that doesn't bother me, 'cos
the old one
takes four AA bats, which I can source from anywhere or take my own
rechargeable ones.

My 14 year old digital camera still fits inside my side pocket.

Most of us just use our much better phone cameras instead.

There's no comparison between a proper digital camera and a phone camera.
It's not physically not possible to fit in the optical zooming capability &
other higher features to a phone camera.
You rely on higher megapixels and digital zoom, which ain't practical for
quality photography.

I haven't seen a miniaturized DSLR, other than using non standard and
probably more powerful lithium ion bats. The digital zoom is just a
useless gimmick.

Bullshit.

It's ok for amateurs like you. But, how do you manage to keep the phone
camera still, while zooming on something far away, especially with
your trembling hands?

Same with my Fujifilm DSLR camera.

Ditto.

They are still damn useful to me everywhere I go, and no dramas with
flat batteries 'cos I always have backup ones, where ever I go.

Mobile phones handle that situation fine without using the AA/AAA
format.

How so?!

They allow you to swap the lithium ion battery if you need to.

I had to buy a rechargeable battery banks for the iphone and the android
tablet.
Without that, they're useless.

Bullshit.

Fact

Battery won't last anymore than a day on high use.

Bullshit.

Fact.

Just need to walk into a servo or milk bar, in case if I run out of
batteries, etc.

Makes a lot more sense to carry enough batterys and a charger.

It does with the current trend.

It always will do.

I don't see any use of standard AA/AAA size batteries in any devices, if
the current trend to continue this way.

They will still be used in some things like remotes.


Now, 18650 Lithium Ion bats are becoming more popular for torches, etc,

Because those need the better battery performance.

while the AA/AAA is becoming a relic,

Not with some devices like remotes and other low powered devices.


'cos they haven't come up with a way to produce AA/AAA 1.5V bats in
Lithium Ion technology.

It isnt even possible. The best that will ever be possible
is to have a built in buck converter and charger.

Personally, I would love to see, AA/AAA 1.5 V Lithium Ion bats.
That would make my day.

I couldn’t care less, because most stuff has an internal lithium ion
battery.

Correct, but no standards.

So the answer to that is a couple of standards, not AA/AAA lithium ion
batterys.

Million batteries in million different sizes, let alone voltages
(luckily, not so due to lithium ion voltage limitations)

So the answer to that is a couple of standards, not AA/AAA lithium ion
batterys.

I dunno.

I do.

It they can do that, yes, but that may make AA/AAA bats an antique.

Unlikely given that they do make sense for some things like remotes.

Other solution is to come up with AA/AAA Lithium Ions in standard
voltage(1.5)

Not even possible.

There are some advantages of batteries being cylindrical.

None that make up for the loss of capacity because
of the built in buck converter and charging ic.

If the companies come to agreement and standardize the battery
dimensions and perhaps voltage mutipliers, life will be lot easier for
professionals and the amateurs alike.

In practice they just do it the other way, make it easy to use an
external power pack.

That's what I do now.

And that works fine. You can even get some that use standard
AA cells to provide what the device needs to charge it.

Where?
One's I've seen and have use 18650 Lithium ion cells.

That gives a much better result than allowing you
to get some more at a supermarket anywhere.

If they can make external battery banks available in supermarkets and
milk bar huts everwhere, then it would make it practical

Don’t need to, all we need is external battery banks that take AA
and AAA cells and those have been available for a long time now.

Where?

I did at one time deliberately choose to buy stuff that used AA or AAA
cells, but don’t bother with that approach anymore. Even with stuff
like scales, most stuff uses coin cells now.

And they are standard ones. Companies don't make the size of those coin
lithiums out of their rear end.
Shoudl be the same for mobile phones, cameras, etc.

The reason it isnt done that was is because most of them
have an internal battery instead and a way to charge that.

I dunno about most of them. iphones and many GPS units have that
approach.

All tablets and mobile phones.

Other than iphone, most phones come with access to the battery from back
panel.
tabs and iphone demand a battery bank.

 

[Rod Speed]

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"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ldojrq$cj8$1@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2014-02-15, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:


"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ldmo4s$rus$4@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2014-02-14, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:


"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:ldju4q$fbc$1@dont-email.me...

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bm4kj0Fjl40U1@mid.individual.net...


"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:ldj448$tds$1@dont-email.me...

"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ldig19$rtf$2@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2014-02-12, Damian <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au
wrote:

And a one with a 'built in' buck converter won't be
the standard
AA,
AAA
size, right?

could be a 2/3 or 3/4 length AA size with the converter
making up the
rest of the
length.

The whole thing can be packaged to look like a AA or AAA
1.2-1.5V
rechargeable Lithium Ion battery.
But, I don't see them anywhere!!!

Because of the difficulty with charging those in that
format.

So, in a nutshell, buck converter gets in the way when it
comes to
charging sucha hypothetical battery?

Doesn't have to, but until someone does an ic that
does that auto, it is a problem with offering that.

what about those USB charged AA batteries?

There is no such animal.

http://search.jaycar.com.au/search?w=%20SB1755&view=list


they seem like a good fit for lithium ion, charge at
4.5-5.5V discharge through different terminals at 1.5V

There are no different terminals with AA and AAA batteries.

there are on these ones.

these are NiMH, but a lithium version could be done.

No, because USB does not provided the charging protocol you
need for lithium ion.

By that you meant, charging protocol for my 'hypothetical'
AA/AAA 1.5V Lithium Ion battery(which has a built in buck
converter)?
Right?

More that the Lithium Ion battery behind the buck
converter still needs the lithium ion charging protocol.

We do charge mobile phone lithium ion batteries(3.7V) with USB.

Sure, but in that case USB is just the source of the current used
to charge
the lithium ion batterys and the phone provides the charging
protocol.

Yes, an IC instead of the buck converter could to that with a
lithium ion
AA or AAA battery, but then we are back to what I originally
said, the lack
of an ic to do that.

So, I'm guessing, it can't be that hard for somebody to come up
with a charger to charge such 'hypothetical' batteries?

Impossible actually with the buck converter getting in the way of
charging it.

Yes, that could certainly be replaced with an ic as I originally
said.

The mere fact we're talking about means such IC should exist
already in a lab somewhere or even in production.

Dunno, after saying that I did wonder how feasible it is to do that
sort
of current thru an ic that will fit in a AAA battery and leave
enough
room for a decent lithium ion battery as well.

Hopefully we should be able see it soon.

I doubt we will myself. I bet we will just see devices that handle
3.7V fine and need no buck converter or charging ic either because
you put the AA or AAA cell in a dedicated lithium ion charger and
can use the entire space in the battery for the lithium ion
battery.

That is quite a switch.

Nope.

Most stuff these days work on 1.5V AA/AAA or multiples of it.

Most stuff these days has an internal lithium ion battery.

Yes, you're right, that is the future and current tendancy, but there
are no standards. They all are different sizes.

Sure, but all we need is a few standard sizes, not any fancy new
technology.

The physical dimensions come out the rear end of the designers who
work for the companies, be it mobile phones, cameras, GPS navigators,
etc.

They mostly concentrate on making the device very
thin for some stupid reason with mobile phones etc.

I can understand AA and, may be even AAA sizes aren't gonna fit into
thin mobiles these days(so we can easily break them and lose them)
But, with Video cameras, digital cameras, etc, we don't need to be
that desperate to miniaturize the batteries.

Sure, but it makes no sense to use AA or AAA batterys when
lithium ion batterys produce a much better result in those.

That makes it difficult to source replacement batteries in an
emergency situation.

You don’t get many emergency situations and with
those the obvious thing to do is get the replacement
when you get the device so its readily available.

Nothing like being able to walk into a milk bar hut and buy the
batteries for your devices.

Nothing to stop you doing that and putting them
into a charger for your device if you want to do that.

The better systems have replaceable lithium ion batterys
so anyone with even half a clue does that instead.

I can still do that 'cos I'm stil using an 'antique' DSLR and a digital
camera.

And get to wear the shit result you get with those
because they have such dinosaur battery technology.

They aren't that bad.

They are steaming turds now.

> The power efficiency isnt' as good as new ones.

Its completely fucking hopeless.

> But, I have no problem with that, 'cos AA bats are available everywhere.

Makes a hell of a lot more sense to use
something that doesn’t need them.

> I carry rechargeable ones with a charger+inverter in my car.

So the fact that you can get AAs everywhere is irrelevant.

Newer, Canon G10 I got has a proprietary square lithium iron. It lasts
longer.

Much longer in fact.

> But, doesn't have the advance features or the built in zoom like the DSLR.

Plenty of others do.

The old DSLR is pretty 'snug' fit and tough. G10 is easy to drop and
damange easily.
I've already broke the LCD display once.

There are plenty of other done better.

where as AA/AAA batteries are widely available.

But not in lithium ion.

Not yet, but as you pointed out it may happen sometime soon.

I doubt it ever will with milkbars etc just because there just
arent that many devices that they are usable in anymore.

It looks like that's where the small lithium ion batteries are heading.

Yep, the cylindrical format never did make much sense.

> AA/AAA may become an antique standard.

It still has its place for some stuff like remotes.

When there are rechargebles unavailable, you can always find non
rechargeable alkalines or lithiums.

But mobile phones are too bulky if they take those.
So it makes a lot more sense to have a replaceable
lithium ion battery in a different format instead.

My 14 year old digital camera which I paid nearly thousand bucks,
works on AA batteries, be it Lithium Iron, Alkanline, NiMH, NiCD, etc.

And there are much better cameras around now with build
in lithium ion batterys or replaceable lithium ion batterys.

Much better in size, which doesn't make a damn difference to me.

Much better in performance in every way too, which should.

Dunno. The canon digital camera still produces higher enough mega pixels.
And the SD cards are still available for more memory.
Doesn't make sense throwing away something that's so flexible
and still get the job done.

Even the iphone 5S leaves it for dead.

The old DSLR is still as good as newer ones in terms of zooming capability
and mega pixels.

Bullshit.

The newer ones are more energy efficient, but that doesn't bother me, 'cos
the old one
takes four AA bats, which I can source from anywhere or take my own
rechargeable ones.

You don’t have to fart around like that with the current stuff.

My 14 year old digital camera still fits inside my side pocket.

Most of us just use our much better phone cameras instead.

There's no comparison between a proper digital camera and a phone camera.

Wrong with a dinosaur like that.

It's not physically not possible to fit in the optical zooming capability
& other higher features to a phone camera.
You rely on higher megapixels and digital zoom, which ain't practical for
quality photography.

Bullshit.

I haven't seen a miniaturized DSLR, other than using non standard and
probably more powerful lithium ion bats. The digital zoom is just a
useless gimmick.

Bullshit.

It's ok for amateurs like you.

You're an amateur yourself.

But, how do you manage to keep the phone camera still, while zooming on
something far away, especially with your trembling hands?

If you want to do stuff like that, you
don’t use a 14 year old dinosaur, stupid.

Same with my Fujifilm DSLR camera.

Ditto.

They are still damn useful to me everywhere I go, and no dramas with
flat batteries 'cos I always have backup ones, where ever I go.

Mobile phones handle that situation fine without using the AA/AAA
format.

How so?!

They allow you to swap the lithium ion battery if you need to.

I had to buy a rechargeable battery banks for the iphone and the android
tablet.

Without that, they're useless.

Bullshit.

Fact

Bullshit.

Battery won't last anymore than a day on high use.

Bullshit.

Fact.

Bullshit.

Just need to walk into a servo or milk bar, in case if I run out of
batteries, etc.

Makes a lot more sense to carry enough batterys and a charger.

It does with the current trend.

It always will do.

I don't see any use of standard AA/AAA size batteries in any devices, if
the current trend to continue this way.

They will still be used in some things like remotes.


Now, 18650 Lithium Ion bats are becoming more popular for torches, etc,

Because those need the better battery performance.

while the AA/AAA is becoming a relic,

Not with some devices like remotes and other low powered devices.


'cos they haven't come up with a way to produce AA/AAA 1.5V bats in
Lithium Ion technology.

It isnt even possible. The best that will ever be possible
is to have a built in buck converter and charger.

Personally, I would love to see, AA/AAA 1.5 V Lithium Ion bats.
That would make my day.

I couldn’t care less, because most stuff has an internal lithium ion
battery.

Correct, but no standards.

So the answer to that is a couple of standards, not AA/AAA lithium ion
batterys.

Million batteries in million different sizes, let alone voltages
(luckily, not so due to lithium ion voltage limitations)

So the answer to that is a couple of standards, not AA/AAA lithium ion
batterys.

I dunno.

I do.

It they can do that, yes, but that may make AA/AAA bats an antique.

Unlikely given that they do make sense for some things like remotes.

Other solution is to come up with AA/AAA Lithium Ions in standard
voltage(1.5)

Not even possible.

There are some advantages of batteries being cylindrical.

None that make up for the loss of capacity because
of the built in buck converter and charging ic.

If the companies come to agreement and standardize the battery
dimensions and perhaps voltage mutipliers, life will be lot easier for
professionals and the amateurs alike.

In practice they just do it the other way, make it easy to use an
external power pack.

That's what I do now.

And that works fine. You can even get some that use standard
AA cells to provide what the device needs to charge it.

Where?

Ebay and amazon etc.

> One's I've seen and have use 18650 Lithium ion cells.

There are others that use standard AAs.

That gives a much better result than allowing you
to get some more at a supermarket anywhere.

If they can make external battery banks available in supermarkets and
milk bar huts everwhere, then it would make it practical

Don’t need to, all we need is external battery banks that take AA
and AAA cells and those have been available for a long time now.

Where?

Ebay and amazon etc.

I did at one time deliberately choose to buy stuff that used AA or
AAA cells, but don’t bother with that approach anymore. Even with
stuff like scales, most stuff uses coin cells now.

And they are standard ones. Companies don't make the size of those
coin lithiums out of their rear end.
Shoudl be the same for mobile phones, cameras, etc.

The reason it isnt done that was is because most of them
have an internal battery instead and a way to charge that.

I dunno about most of them. iphones and many GPS units have that
approach.

All tablets and mobile phones.

Other than iphone, most phones come with access to the battery from back
panel.

There are plenty of phablets that don’t.

> tabs and iphone demand a battery bank.

 

[Damian]

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
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"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
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"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
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On 2014-02-15, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:


"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
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On 2014-02-14, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:


"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
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"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
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"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ldig19$rtf$2@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2014-02-12, Damian <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au
wrote:

And a one with a 'built in' buck converter won't be
the standard
AA,
AAA
size, right?

could be a 2/3 or 3/4 length AA size with the
converter making up the
rest of the
length.

The whole thing can be packaged to look like a AA or
AAA 1.2-1.5V
rechargeable Lithium Ion battery.
But, I don't see them anywhere!!!

Because of the difficulty with charging those in that
format.

So, in a nutshell, buck converter gets in the way when it
comes to
charging sucha hypothetical battery?

Doesn't have to, but until someone does an ic that
does that auto, it is a problem with offering that.

what about those USB charged AA batteries?

There is no such animal.

http://search.jaycar.com.au/search?w=%20SB1755&view=list


they seem like a good fit for lithium ion, charge at
4.5-5.5V discharge through different terminals at 1.5V

There are no different terminals with AA and AAA batteries.

there are on these ones.

these are NiMH, but a lithium version could be done.

No, because USB does not provided the charging protocol you
need for lithium ion.

By that you meant, charging protocol for my 'hypothetical'
AA/AAA 1.5V Lithium Ion battery(which has a built in buck
converter)?
Right?

More that the Lithium Ion battery behind the buck
converter still needs the lithium ion charging protocol.

We do charge mobile phone lithium ion batteries(3.7V) with USB.

Sure, but in that case USB is just the source of the current
used to charge
the lithium ion batterys and the phone provides the charging
protocol.

Yes, an IC instead of the buck converter could to that with a
lithium ion
AA or AAA battery, but then we are back to what I originally
said, the lack
of an ic to do that.

So, I'm guessing, it can't be that hard for somebody to come up
with a charger to charge such 'hypothetical' batteries?

Impossible actually with the buck converter getting in the way
of charging it.

Yes, that could certainly be replaced with an ic as I originally
said.

The mere fact we're talking about means such IC should exist
already in a lab somewhere or even in production.

Dunno, after saying that I did wonder how feasible it is to do
that sort
of current thru an ic that will fit in a AAA battery and leave
enough
room for a decent lithium ion battery as well.

Hopefully we should be able see it soon.

I doubt we will myself. I bet we will just see devices that handle
3.7V fine and need no buck converter or charging ic either because
you put the AA or AAA cell in a dedicated lithium ion charger and
can use the entire space in the battery for the lithium ion
battery.

That is quite a switch.

Nope.

Most stuff these days work on 1.5V AA/AAA or multiples of it.

Most stuff these days has an internal lithium ion battery.

Yes, you're right, that is the future and current tendancy, but
there are no standards. They all are different sizes.

Sure, but all we need is a few standard sizes, not any fancy new
technology.

The physical dimensions come out the rear end of the designers who
work for the companies, be it mobile phones, cameras, GPS navigators,
etc.

They mostly concentrate on making the device very
thin for some stupid reason with mobile phones etc.

I can understand AA and, may be even AAA sizes aren't gonna fit into
thin mobiles these days(so we can easily break them and lose them)
But, with Video cameras, digital cameras, etc, we don't need to be
that desperate to miniaturize the batteries.

Sure, but it makes no sense to use AA or AAA batterys when
lithium ion batterys produce a much better result in those.

That makes it difficult to source replacement batteries in an
emergency situation.

You don’t get many emergency situations and with
those the obvious thing to do is get the replacement
when you get the device so its readily available.

Nothing like being able to walk into a milk bar hut and buy the
batteries for your devices.

Nothing to stop you doing that and putting them
into a charger for your device if you want to do that.

The better systems have replaceable lithium ion batterys
so anyone with even half a clue does that instead.

I can still do that 'cos I'm stil using an 'antique' DSLR and a
digital camera.

And get to wear the shit result you get with those
because they have such dinosaur battery technology.

They aren't that bad.

They are steaming turds now.

The power efficiency isnt' as good as new ones.

Its completely fucking hopeless.

But, I have no problem with that, 'cos AA bats are available everywhere.

Makes a hell of a lot more sense to use
something that doesn’t need them.

I carry rechargeable ones with a charger+inverter in my car.

So the fact that you can get AAs everywhere is irrelevant.

Newer, Canon G10 I got has a proprietary square lithium iron. It lasts
longer.

Much longer in fact.

But, doesn't have the advance features or the built in zoom like the
DSLR.

Plenty of others do.

The old DSLR is pretty 'snug' fit and tough. G10 is easy to drop and
damange easily.
I've already broke the LCD display once.

There are plenty of other done better.

where as AA/AAA batteries are widely available.

But not in lithium ion.

Not yet, but as you pointed out it may happen sometime soon.

I doubt it ever will with milkbars etc just because there just
arent that many devices that they are usable in anymore.

It looks like that's where the small lithium ion batteries are heading.

Yep, the cylindrical format never did make much sense.

AA/AAA may become an antique standard.

It still has its place for some stuff like remotes.

When there are rechargebles unavailable, you can always find non
rechargeable alkalines or lithiums.

But mobile phones are too bulky if they take those.
So it makes a lot more sense to have a replaceable
lithium ion battery in a different format instead.

My 14 year old digital camera which I paid nearly thousand bucks,
works on AA batteries, be it Lithium Iron, Alkanline, NiMH, NiCD,
etc.

And there are much better cameras around now with build
in lithium ion batterys or replaceable lithium ion batterys.

Much better in size, which doesn't make a damn difference to me.

Much better in performance in every way too, which should.

Dunno. The canon digital camera still produces higher enough mega
pixels.
And the SD cards are still available for more memory.
Doesn't make sense throwing away something that's so flexible
and still get the job done.

Even the iphone 5S leaves it for dead.

Bullshit.

The old DSLR is still as good as newer ones in terms of zooming
capability and mega pixels.

The newer ones are more energy efficient, but that doesn't bother me,
'cos the old one
takes four AA bats, which I can source from anywhere or take my own
rechargeable ones.

You don’t have to fart around like that with the current stuff.

I don't. DSLR with a good zoom lense kit costs a fortune.
It'a not something I can afford to buy every two years like shitty iphones
or android phones.

My 14 year old digital camera still fits inside my side pocket.

Most of us just use our much better phone cameras instead.

There's no comparison between a proper digital camera and a phone camera.

Wrong with a dinosaur like that.

You need a dinosaur to take serious photographs with sophisticated features.
For an average Joe, shmart phones will do fine.

It's not physically not possible to fit in the optical zooming capability
& other higher features to a phone camera.
You rely on higher megapixels and digital zoom, which ain't practical for
quality photography.
I haven't seen a miniaturized DSLR, other than using non standard and
probably more powerful lithium ion bats. The digital zoom is just a
useless gimmick.

It's ok for amateurs like you.

You're an amateur yourself.

Bullshit

But, how do you manage to keep the phone camera still, while zooming on
something far away, especially with your trembling hands?

If you want to do stuff like that, you
don’t use a 14 year old dinosaur, stupid.

It'a 14 year old digital camera, that still works like a charm with AA bats.
A nice backup camera I take everywhere.

DSLR ain't that old. It cost a fortune. The zoom lense kit actually cost far
more than the DSLR itself.
Ridiculous, but that's the way it is.

Same with my Fujifilm DSLR camera.

Ditto.

They are still damn useful to me everywhere I go, and no dramas with
flat batteries 'cos I always have backup ones, where ever I go.

Mobile phones handle that situation fine without using the AA/AAA
format.

How so?!

They allow you to swap the lithium ion battery if you need to.

I had to buy a rechargeable battery banks for the iphone and the
android tablet.

Without that, they're useless.

Bullshit.

Fact

Bullshit.

Prove it.

Battery won't last anymore than a day on high use.

Bullshit.

Fact.

Bullshit.

Fact.

Just need to walk into a servo or milk bar, in case if I run out of
batteries, etc.

Makes a lot more sense to carry enough batterys and a charger.

It does with the current trend.

It always will do.

I don't see any use of standard AA/AAA size batteries in any devices,
if the current trend to continue this way.

They will still be used in some things like remotes.


Now, 18650 Lithium Ion bats are becoming more popular for torches, etc,

Because those need the better battery performance.

while the AA/AAA is becoming a relic,

Not with some devices like remotes and other low powered devices.


'cos they haven't come up with a way to produce AA/AAA 1.5V bats in
Lithium Ion technology.

It isnt even possible. The best that will ever be possible
is to have a built in buck converter and charger.

Personally, I would love to see, AA/AAA 1.5 V Lithium Ion bats.
That would make my day.

I couldn’t care less, because most stuff has an internal lithium ion
battery.

Correct, but no standards.

So the answer to that is a couple of standards, not AA/AAA lithium ion
batterys.

Million batteries in million different sizes, let alone voltages
(luckily, not so due to lithium ion voltage limitations)

So the answer to that is a couple of standards, not AA/AAA lithium ion
batterys.

I dunno.

I do.

It they can do that, yes, but that may make AA/AAA bats an antique.

Unlikely given that they do make sense for some things like remotes.

Other solution is to come up with AA/AAA Lithium Ions in standard
voltage(1.5)

Not even possible.

There are some advantages of batteries being cylindrical.

None that make up for the loss of capacity because
of the built in buck converter and charging ic.

If the companies come to agreement and standardize the battery
dimensions and perhaps voltage mutipliers, life will be lot easier
for professionals and the amateurs alike.

In practice they just do it the other way, make it easy to use an
external power pack.

That's what I do now.

And that works fine. You can even get some that use standard
AA cells to provide what the device needs to charge it.

Where?

Ebay and amazon etc.

One's I've seen and have use 18650 Lithium ion cells.

There are others that use standard AAs.

That gives a much better result than allowing you
to get some more at a supermarket anywhere.

If they can make external battery banks available in supermarkets and
milk bar huts everwhere, then it would make it practical

Don’t need to, all we need is external battery banks that take AA
and AAA cells and those have been available for a long time now.

Where?

Ebay and amazon etc.

You gota give me a link. I don't see any.

I did at one time deliberately choose to buy stuff that used AA or
AAA cells, but don’t bother with that approach anymore. Even with
stuff like scales, most stuff uses coin cells now.

And they are standard ones. Companies don't make the size of those
coin lithiums out of their rear end.
Shoudl be the same for mobile phones, cameras, etc.

The reason it isnt done that was is because most of them
have an internal battery instead and a way to charge that.

I dunno about most of them. iphones and many GPS units have that
approach.

All tablets and mobile phones.

Other than iphone, most phones come with access to the battery from back
panel.

There are plenty of phablets that don’t.

I don't believe in 7 inch gimmicks. They are pathetic.

tabs and iphone demand a battery bank.

 

[Rod Speed]

"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
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"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
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On 2014-02-15, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:


"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ldmo4s$rus$4@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2014-02-14, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:


"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:ldju4q$fbc$1@dont-email.me...

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
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"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
message
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"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ldig19$rtf$2@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2014-02-12, Damian <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au
wrote:

And a one with a 'built in' buck converter won't be
the standard
AA,
AAA
size, right?

could be a 2/3 or 3/4 length AA size with the
converter making up the
rest of the
length.

The whole thing can be packaged to look like a AA or
AAA 1.2-1.5V
rechargeable Lithium Ion battery.
But, I don't see them anywhere!!!

Because of the difficulty with charging those in that
format.

So, in a nutshell, buck converter gets in the way when
it comes to
charging sucha hypothetical battery?

Doesn't have to, but until someone does an ic that
does that auto, it is a problem with offering that.

what about those USB charged AA batteries?

There is no such animal.

http://search.jaycar.com.au/search?w=%20SB1755&view=list


they seem like a good fit for lithium ion, charge at
4.5-5.5V discharge through different terminals at 1.5V

There are no different terminals with AA and AAA batteries.

there are on these ones.

these are NiMH, but a lithium version could be done.

No, because USB does not provided the charging protocol you
need for lithium ion.

By that you meant, charging protocol for my 'hypothetical'
AA/AAA 1.5V Lithium Ion battery(which has a built in buck
converter)?
Right?

More that the Lithium Ion battery behind the buck
converter still needs the lithium ion charging protocol.

We do charge mobile phone lithium ion batteries(3.7V) with
USB.

Sure, but in that case USB is just the source of the current
used to charge
the lithium ion batterys and the phone provides the charging
protocol.

Yes, an IC instead of the buck converter could to that with a
lithium ion
AA or AAA battery, but then we are back to what I originally
said, the lack
of an ic to do that.

So, I'm guessing, it can't be that hard for somebody to come
up with a charger to charge such 'hypothetical' batteries?

Impossible actually with the buck converter getting in the way
of charging it.

Yes, that could certainly be replaced with an ic as I
originally said.

The mere fact we're talking about means such IC should exist
already in a lab somewhere or even in production.

Dunno, after saying that I did wonder how feasible it is to do
that sort
of current thru an ic that will fit in a AAA battery and leave
enough
room for a decent lithium ion battery as well.

Hopefully we should be able see it soon.

I doubt we will myself. I bet we will just see devices that
handle
3.7V fine and need no buck converter or charging ic either
because
you put the AA or AAA cell in a dedicated lithium ion charger and
can use the entire space in the battery for the lithium ion
battery.

That is quite a switch.

Nope.

Most stuff these days work on 1.5V AA/AAA or multiples of it.

Most stuff these days has an internal lithium ion battery.

Yes, you're right, that is the future and current tendancy, but
there are no standards. They all are different sizes.

Sure, but all we need is a few standard sizes, not any fancy new
technology.

The physical dimensions come out the rear end of the designers who
work for the companies, be it mobile phones, cameras, GPS
navigators, etc.

They mostly concentrate on making the device very
thin for some stupid reason with mobile phones etc.

I can understand AA and, may be even AAA sizes aren't gonna fit into
thin mobiles these days(so we can easily break them and lose them)
But, with Video cameras, digital cameras, etc, we don't need to be
that desperate to miniaturize the batteries.

Sure, but it makes no sense to use AA or AAA batterys when
lithium ion batterys produce a much better result in those.

That makes it difficult to source replacement batteries in an
emergency situation.

You don’t get many emergency situations and with
those the obvious thing to do is get the replacement
when you get the device so its readily available.

Nothing like being able to walk into a milk bar hut and buy the
batteries for your devices.

Nothing to stop you doing that and putting them
into a charger for your device if you want to do that.

The better systems have replaceable lithium ion batterys
so anyone with even half a clue does that instead.

I can still do that 'cos I'm stil using an 'antique' DSLR and a
digital camera.

And get to wear the shit result you get with those
because they have such dinosaur battery technology.

They aren't that bad.

They are steaming turds now.

The power efficiency isnt' as good as new ones.

Its completely fucking hopeless.

But, I have no problem with that, 'cos AA bats are available everywhere.

Makes a hell of a lot more sense to use
something that doesn’t need them.

I carry rechargeable ones with a charger+inverter in my car.

So the fact that you can get AAs everywhere is irrelevant.

Newer, Canon G10 I got has a proprietary square lithium iron. It lasts
longer.

Much longer in fact.

But, doesn't have the advance features or the built in zoom like the
DSLR.

Plenty of others do.

The old DSLR is pretty 'snug' fit and tough. G10 is easy to drop and
damange easily.
I've already broke the LCD display once.

There are plenty of other done better.

where as AA/AAA batteries are widely available.

But not in lithium ion.

Not yet, but as you pointed out it may happen sometime soon.

I doubt it ever will with milkbars etc just because there just
arent that many devices that they are usable in anymore.

It looks like that's where the small lithium ion batteries are heading.

Yep, the cylindrical format never did make much sense.

AA/AAA may become an antique standard.

It still has its place for some stuff like remotes.

When there are rechargebles unavailable, you can always find non
rechargeable alkalines or lithiums.

But mobile phones are too bulky if they take those.
So it makes a lot more sense to have a replaceable
lithium ion battery in a different format instead.

My 14 year old digital camera which I paid nearly thousand bucks,
works on AA batteries, be it Lithium Iron, Alkanline, NiMH, NiCD,
etc.

And there are much better cameras around now with build
in lithium ion batterys or replaceable lithium ion batterys.

Much better in size, which doesn't make a damn difference to me.

Much better in performance in every way too, which should.

Dunno. The canon digital camera still produces higher enough mega
pixels.
And the SD cards are still available for more memory.
Doesn't make sense throwing away something that's so flexible
and still get the job done.

Even the iphone 5S leaves it for dead.

Bullshit.


The old DSLR is still as good as newer ones in terms of zooming
capability and mega pixels.

The newer ones are more energy efficient, but that doesn't bother me,
'cos the old one
takes four AA bats, which I can source from anywhere or take my own
rechargeable ones.

You don’t have to fart around like that with the current stuff.

I don't. DSLR with a good zoom lense kit costs a fortune.
It'a not something I can afford to buy every two years like shitty iphones
or android phones.



My 14 year old digital camera still fits inside my side pocket.

Most of us just use our much better phone cameras instead.

There's no comparison between a proper digital camera and a phone
camera.

Wrong with a dinosaur like that.

You need a dinosaur to take serious photographs with sophisticated
features.

Bullshit.

For an average Joe, shmart phones will do fine.


It's not physically not possible to fit in the optical zooming
capability & other higher features to a phone camera.
You rely on higher megapixels and digital zoom, which ain't practical
for quality photography.
I haven't seen a miniaturized DSLR, other than using non standard and
probably more powerful lithium ion bats. The digital zoom is just a
useless gimmick.

It's ok for amateurs like you.

You're an amateur yourself.

Bullshit

Fact.

But, how do you manage to keep the phone camera still, while zooming on
something far away, especially with your trembling hands?

If you want to do stuff like that, you
don’t use a 14 year old dinosaur, stupid.

It'a 14 year old digital camera,

It’s a dinosaur.

> that still works like a charm with AA bats.

You get a lot better result with a decent modern
camera that has an internal lithium ion battery.

> A nice backup camera I take everywhere.

More fool you.

> DSLR ain't that old.

14 years is ancient history with digital cameras.

It cost a fortune. The zoom lense kit actually cost far more than the DSLR
itself.

Irrelevant to the fact the the camera itself is a dinosaur.

Ridiculous, but that's the way it is.


Same with my Fujifilm DSLR camera.

Ditto.

They are still damn useful to me everywhere I go, and no dramas with
flat batteries 'cos I always have backup ones, where ever I go.

Mobile phones handle that situation fine without using the AA/AAA
format.

How so?!

They allow you to swap the lithium ion battery if you need to.

I had to buy a rechargeable battery banks for the iphone and the
android tablet.

Without that, they're useless.

Bullshit.

Fact

Bullshit.

Prove it.

Mine does that. Doesn’t need one.

Battery won't last anymore than a day on high use.

Bullshit.

Fact.

Bullshit.

Fact.

Bullshit.

Just need to walk into a servo or milk bar, in case if I run out of
batteries, etc.

Makes a lot more sense to carry enough batterys and a charger.

It does with the current trend.

It always will do.

I don't see any use of standard AA/AAA size batteries in any devices,
if the current trend to continue this way.

They will still be used in some things like remotes.


Now, 18650 Lithium Ion bats are becoming more popular for torches,
etc,

Because those need the better battery performance.

while the AA/AAA is becoming a relic,

Not with some devices like remotes and other low powered devices.


'cos they haven't come up with a way to produce AA/AAA 1.5V bats in
Lithium Ion technology.

It isnt even possible. The best that will ever be possible
is to have a built in buck converter and charger.

Personally, I would love to see, AA/AAA 1.5 V Lithium Ion bats.
That would make my day.

I couldn’t care less, because most stuff has an internal lithium
ion battery.

Correct, but no standards.

So the answer to that is a couple of standards, not AA/AAA lithium
ion batterys.

Million batteries in million different sizes, let alone voltages
(luckily, not so due to lithium ion voltage limitations)

So the answer to that is a couple of standards, not AA/AAA lithium
ion batterys.

I dunno.

I do.

It they can do that, yes, but that may make AA/AAA bats an antique.

Unlikely given that they do make sense for some things like remotes.

Other solution is to come up with AA/AAA Lithium Ions in standard
voltage(1.5)

Not even possible.

There are some advantages of batteries being cylindrical.

None that make up for the loss of capacity because
of the built in buck converter and charging ic.

If the companies come to agreement and standardize the battery
dimensions and perhaps voltage mutipliers, life will be lot easier
for professionals and the amateurs alike.

In practice they just do it the other way, make it easy to use an
external power pack.

That's what I do now.

And that works fine. You can even get some that use standard
AA cells to provide what the device needs to charge it.

Where?

Ebay and amazon etc.

One's I've seen and have use 18650 Lithium ion cells.

There are others that use standard AAs.

That gives a much better result than allowing you
to get some more at a supermarket anywhere.

If they can make external battery banks available in supermarkets and
milk bar huts everwhere, then it would make it practical

Don’t need to, all we need is external battery banks that take AA
and AAA cells and those have been available for a long time now.

Where?

Ebay and amazon etc.

You gota give me a link.

Nope.

> I don't see any.

Your problem.

I did at one time deliberately choose to buy stuff that used AA or
AAA cells, but don’t bother with that approach anymore. Even with
stuff like scales, most stuff uses coin cells now.

And they are standard ones. Companies don't make the size of those
coin lithiums out of their rear end.
Shoudl be the same for mobile phones, cameras, etc.

The reason it isnt done that was is because most of them
have an internal battery instead and a way to charge that.

I dunno about most of them. iphones and many GPS units have that
approach.

All tablets and mobile phones.

Other than iphone, most phones come with access to the battery from back
panel.

There are plenty of phablets that don’t.

I don't believe in 7 inch gimmicks.

Irrelevant to that stupid claim of yours.

> They are pathetic.

Others feel otherwise.

>>> tabs and iphone demand a battery bank.

 

[yaputya]

On 7/03/2014 5:30 AM, Rod Speed wrote:

"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message news:lfbf9f$jh$3@dont-email.me...

It'a 14 year old digital camera,

It’s a dinosaur.

that still works like a charm with AA bats.

You get a lot better result with a decent modern
camera that has an internal lithium ion battery.

Even a 14 year old DSLR will easily outperform a fixed lens smartphone.
Try doing macro close-up work with a smartphone!
Cheap modern digital cameras are also MUCH better than most smartphone cameras.
For $50 you can buy a 14 or better Megapixel camera with x8 or better OPTICAL
zoom.

 

[Rod Speed]

yaputya <sir.leftlegin.to.U@gmale.com> wrote

Rod Speed wrote
Damian <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote

It'a 14 year old digital camera,

It’s a dinosaur.

that still works like a charm with AA bats.

You get a lot better result with a decent modern
camera that has an internal lithium ion battery.

Even a 14 year old DSLR will easily outperform a fixed lens smartphone.

That was talking about a decent modern
DSLR, not a fixed lens smartphone.

> Try doing macro close-up work with a smartphone!

Having fun thrashing that straw man ?

Cheap modern digital cameras are also MUCH better than most smartphone
cameras.

Having fun thrashing that straw man ?

For $50 you can buy a 14 or better Megapixel camera with x8 or better
OPTICAL zoom.

Having fun thrashing that straw man ?

 

[Petzl]

On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 00:52:55 +0100, yaputya
<sir.leftlegin.to.U@gmale.com> wrote:

On 7/03/2014 5:30 AM, Rod Speed wrote:


"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message news:lfbf9f$jh$3@dont-email.me...

It'a 14 year old digital camera,

It’s a dinosaur.

that still works like a charm with AA bats.

You get a lot better result with a decent modern
camera that has an internal lithium ion battery.

Even a 14 year old DSLR will easily outperform a fixed lens smartphone.
Try doing macro close-up work with a smartphone!
Cheap modern digital cameras are also MUCH better than most smartphone cameras.
For $50 you can buy a 14 or better Megapixel camera with x8 or better OPTICAL
zoom.

What about a Nokia as a camera?
http://www.kogan.com/au/buy/nokia-lumia-1020-4g-lte-32gb-white/
Looks good to me AND its Windows meaning a lot of my Windows apps will
work on it. Don't like the lack of security on Android or Iphone
--
Petzl
I started with nothing and I am proud to say I still have most of it left

 

[Rod Speed]

Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote

yaputya <sir.leftlegin.to.U@gmale.com> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Damian <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote

It'a 14 year old digital camera,

It's a dinosaur.

that still works like a charm with AA bats.

You get a lot better result with a decent modern
camera that has an internal lithium ion battery.

Even a 14 year old DSLR will easily outperform a fixed lens smartphone.
Try doing macro close-up work with a smartphone!
Cheap modern digital cameras are also MUCH better than most smartphone
cameras.
For $50 you can buy a 14 or better Megapixel camera with x8 or better
OPTICAL
zoom.

What about a Nokia as a camera?
http://www.kogan.com/au/buy/nokia-lumia-1020-4g-lte-32gb-white/

The iphone 5S leaves it for dead.

> Looks good to me

The iphone 5S leaves it for dead.

> AND its Windows

Last thing anyone needs in a phone.

> meaning a lot of my Windows apps will work on it.

But the user interface is completely fucked in a phone.

> Don't like the lack of security on Android or Iphone

More fool you with the iphone. The sandboxing it uses
and the fact that Apple won't let insecure apps into the
Apple store means that the security leaves that on any
Windows system for dead.

 

[Petzl]

On Sat, 8 Mar 2014 14:25:41 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
yaputya <sir.leftlegin.to.U@gmale.com> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Damian <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote

It'a 14 year old digital camera,

It's a dinosaur.

that still works like a charm with AA bats.

You get a lot better result with a decent modern
camera that has an internal lithium ion battery.

Even a 14 year old DSLR will easily outperform a fixed lens smartphone.
Try doing macro close-up work with a smartphone!
Cheap modern digital cameras are also MUCH better than most smartphone
cameras.
For $50 you can buy a 14 or better Megapixel camera with x8 or better
OPTICAL
zoom.

What about a Nokia as a camera?
http://www.kogan.com/au/buy/nokia-lumia-1020-4g-lte-32gb-white/

The iphone 5S leaves it for dead.

opinion about iphone
Nokia takes a much superior photo

Looks good to me

The iphone 5S leaves it for dead.

opinion about iphone
Nokia takes a much superior photo

AND its Windows

Last thing anyone needs in a phone.

You use windows
Can you even print from your Iphone?

meaning a lot of my Windows apps will work on it.

But the user interface is completely fucked in a phone.

Seems a lot of my applications can be used in this Nokia Lumia 1020

Don't like the lack of security on Android or Iphone

More fool you with the iphone. The sandboxing it uses
and the fact that Apple won't let insecure apps into the
Apple store means that the security leaves that on any
Windows system for dead.

Not sure about Iphone but when I take a photo on it Google grab that
photo and EVERY face in it has a square box around it click on that
box and Google searches Internet giving me EVERYTHING that can be
found about the owner of that face
--
Petzl
I started with nothing and I am proud to say I still have most of it left