Jihad needs scientists

[Gordon]

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 01:19:47 +0100, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:

The Islamic terrorists aim at destruction of the western society

Where did you get that idea ?

Graham

Their Koran makes this pretty clear. The fundamental goal of the

Muslim religion is to make the entire world Muslim and anyone who
won't convert is to be executed.

There are several Surah, Ayah in their Koran that say essentially
the same as this one;

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Surah 8, Ayah 12 When thy Lord spake unto the angels, 'I will
be with you: therefore stablishe ye the faithful. I will cast a
dread unto the hearts of the infidels.' Strike off their heads
then, and strike off from them every finger tip.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

An infidel is anyone who is not a recognized Muslim.

The real driving force, presently, is that they are very
concerned about losing their clout when their oil revenues begin
to peter out. They are convinced that if they haven't
accomplished the directives of passages like the one above, by
the time they run out of oil, the window of opportunity will be
forever closed, and they will have failed their primary mission.

Gordon

 

"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:45205A9F.698166CE@hotmail.com...

Gordon wrote:

On Sun, 01 Oct 2006 22:14:02 GMT, "Homer J Simpson" wrote:
"Gordon" <gordonlr@DELETEswbell.net> wrote

No, I'm saying that this war on terrorism started long before
President Bush and the present Republican administration was
involved in any way.

But it isn't a war. It is a problem for a police force that requires
international cooperation, something the US is notoriously unable or
unwilling to be involved in.

Homer, I don't agree with you, but you are certainly entitled to
your opinion. A police force of international cooperation just
doesn't seem available. The main reason this won't work is that
Europe needs Mid-East petroleum and the Mid-East needs European
manufactured goods. For the most part, Europe just isn't going to
get involved to the extent that would jeopardize their petroleum
supply.

Europe's not interested in getting much more involved largely because
Europe wasn't the target of the 9/11 terrorists.

That may and may not be true, but it is clear that after 9/11, the US did
get a lot of international support in its mission.

Most of Europe is
frankly sick of the USA to the proverbial back teeth.

Unfortunately, I think you're exactly right, and it doesn't stop with
Europe. All that international goodwill that we had after 9/11 evaporated
when the Shrub chose to play cowboy and destroy a large fraction of that
goodwill.

The thing that I do not understand at all is what the Muslim
terrorists' goal was/is. They surely didn't think we would
knuckle under and surrender to them without a fight. So, it seems
they really did want us to engage them in an all-out war
situation. Why? It took them 22 years to get a full scale war
going with us, full bore, but what is their ultimate goal?

Well, I don't know if it was their goal, but they've certainly succeeded in
getting our government to take away a number of Constitutional rights, all
in the name of the hallowed "War on Terror". Since those rights are what we
like to strut around as the thing that gives us the moral superiority to go
throwing our weight around in the world political arena, I'd say they've
succeeded in lessening us.

It's not a full-scale war. It's still capable of tying up the US and UK
military very effectively though.

Yep, and what happens when we are faced with a "real war"?

Eric Lucas

 

[Eeyore]

Gordon wrote:

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 01:19:47 +0100, Eeyore wrote:
mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:

The Islamic terrorists aim at destruction of the western society

Where did you get that idea ?

Graham

Their Koran makes this pretty clear. The fundamental goal of the
Muslim religion is to make the entire world Muslim and anyone who
won't convert is to be executed.

There are several Surah, Ayah in their Koran that say essentially
the same as this one

None of which has anything to do with the ' destruction of the western society '.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

lucasea@sbcglobal.net wrote:

"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote
Gordon wrote:
On Sun, 01 Oct 2006 22:14:02 GMT, "Homer J Simpson" wrote:
"Gordon" <gordonlr@DELETEswbell.net> wrote

No, I'm saying that this war on terrorism started long before
President Bush and the present Republican administration was
involved in any way.

But it isn't a war. It is a problem for a police force that requires
international cooperation, something the US is notoriously unable or
unwilling to be involved in.

Homer, I don't agree with you, but you are certainly entitled to
your opinion. A police force of international cooperation just
doesn't seem available. The main reason this won't work is that
Europe needs Mid-East petroleum and the Mid-East needs European
manufactured goods. For the most part, Europe just isn't going to
get involved to the extent that would jeopardize their petroleum
supply.

Europe's not interested in getting much more involved largely because
Europe wasn't the target of the 9/11 terrorists.

That may and may not be true, but it is clear that after 9/11, the US did
get a lot of international support in its mission.

From gullible fools perhaps.

Most of Europe is
frankly sick of the USA to the proverbial back teeth.

Unfortunately, I think you're exactly right, and it doesn't stop with
Europe. All that international goodwill that we had after 9/11 evaporated
when the Shrub chose to play cowboy and destroy a large fraction of that
goodwill.

Exactly right. And wanting 'revenge' doesn't come over well either.

The thing that I do not understand at all is what the Muslim
terrorists' goal was/is. They surely didn't think we would
knuckle under and surrender to them without a fight. So, it seems
they really did want us to engage them in an all-out war
situation. Why? It took them 22 years to get a full scale war
going with us, full bore, but what is their ultimate goal?

Well, I don't know if it was their goal, but they've certainly succeeded in
getting our government to take away a number of Constitutional rights, all
in the name of the hallowed "War on Terror". Since those rights are what we
like to strut around as the thing that gives us the moral superiority to go
throwing our weight around in the world political arena, I'd say they've
succeeded in lessening us.

It's not a full-scale war. It's still capable of tying up the US and UK
military very effectively though.

Yep, and what happens when we are faced with a "real war"?

Better hope there isn't one then !

Graham

 

In article <4520595E.F279285A@hotmail.com>, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> writes:

mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:

Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> writes:
mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
"Homer J Simpson" <nobody@nowhere.com> writes:
"Gordon" <gordonlr@DELETEswbell.net> wrote in message

So you are saying they are NOT better Xtians than everyone else?

No, I'm saying that this war on terrorism started long before
President Bush and the present Republican administration was
involved in any way.

But it isn't a war.

It is a war. Refusing to recognize it as such will not make it go
away.

It's not a meaningful war since the 'enemy' isn't an identifiable entity but a 'view'.

That just makes it a far worse and more dangerous war.

Far more dangerous to us in the West for sure ! It is making Radical Islamist thinking more popular.

If you think, for a moment, that the popularity of radical Islamic

thinking depends much on what we call it, then you're thinking way too
small.

Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"

 

In article <45205A9F.698166CE@hotmail.com>, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> writes:

Gordon wrote:

On Sun, 01 Oct 2006 22:14:02 GMT, "Homer J Simpson" wrote:
"Gordon" <gordonlr@DELETEswbell.net> wrote

No, I'm saying that this war on terrorism started long before
President Bush and the present Republican administration was
involved in any way.

But it isn't a war. It is a problem for a police force that requires
international cooperation, something the US is notoriously unable or
unwilling to be involved in.

Homer, I don't agree with you, but you are certainly entitled to
your opinion. A police force of international cooperation just
doesn't seem available. The main reason this won't work is that
Europe needs Mid-East petroleum and the Mid-East needs European
manufactured goods. For the most part, Europe just isn't going to
get involved to the extent that would jeopardize their petroleum
supply.

Europe's not interested in getting much more involved largely because
Europe wasn't the target of the 9/11 terrorists. Most of Europe is
frankly sick of the USA to the proverbial back teeth.

Western Europe wasn't interested in getting much involved in the

anshluss, because it wasn't the target of Nazi expansionism. Then,
though a tad more interested, it decided against getting involved with
Chechoslovakia because, again, it wasn't the target. And then...

Try reading some of the stuff Muslim extremists are writing. It is
not just the US that is their target.

The terrorists would have taken those Mid-East petroleum
sources out before now had this not been the case.

They don't yet have the ability to do that. The longer that the USA
continues demonising Islam the sooner they *will* have that ability
though.

The US is not demonizing Islam, at this point. It makes the

distinction between Islam and Islamic extremism. Try to remain
truthful, to the extent of your ability.

Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"

 

In article <45205B23.8190A32@hotmail.com>, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> writes:

mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:

The Islamic terrorists aim at destruction of the western society

Where did you get that idea ?

From their own writings. Try to keep informed.

Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"

 

[Eeyore]

mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:

Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> writes:
mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> writes:
mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
"Homer J Simpson" <nobody@nowhere.com> writes:
"Gordon" <gordonlr@DELETEswbell.net> wrote in message

So you are saying they are NOT better Xtians than everyone else?

No, I'm saying that this war on terrorism started long before
President Bush and the present Republican administration was
involved in any way.

But it isn't a war.

It is a war. Refusing to recognize it as such will not make it go
away.

It's not a meaningful war since the 'enemy' isn't an identifiable entity but a 'view'.

That just makes it a far worse and more dangerous war.

Far more dangerous to us in the West for sure ! It is making Radical Islamist thinking more popular.

If you think, for a moment, that the popularity of radical Islamic
thinking depends much on what we call it, then you're thinking way too
small.

Hardly.

It depends on our behaviour - actually mainly that of the USA. Recent US behaviour has made it all that
much more attractive.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:

Western Europe wasn't interested in getting much involved in the
anshluss, because it wasn't the target of Nazi expansionism.

All of which has zilch to do with this.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:

The US is not demonizing Islam, at this point. It makes the
distinction between Islam and Islamic extremism.

I can assure you that many Americans don't understand the difference.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:

In article <45205B23.8190A32@hotmail.com>, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> writes:
mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:

The Islamic terrorists aim at destruction of the western society

Where did you get that idea ?

From their own writings. Try to keep informed.

Idiot.

You mean they only migrate here becasue they want to destroy us ?

Graham

 

[Homer J Simpson]

<mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu> wrote in message
news:JTZTg.8$45.85@news.uchicago.edu...

The US is not demonizing Islam, at this point. It makes the
distinction between Islam and Islamic extremism. Try to remain
truthful, to the extent of your ability.

It is a difference too subtle for most Muslims.

 

[Homer J Simpson]

<mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu> wrote in message
news:JTZTg.8$45.85@news.uchicago.edu...

Western Europe wasn't interested in getting much involved in the
anshluss, because it wasn't the target of Nazi expansionism. Then,
though a tad more interested, it decided against getting involved with
Chechoslovakia because, again, it wasn't the target. And then...

The Anschluss was popular with most Austrians as well. It would be hard to
pick a side back then, and Chamberlain wasn't going near it.

 

"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:45206C5F.A62FC9E3@hotmail.com...

mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:

The US is not demonizing Islam, at this point. It makes the
distinction between Islam and Islamic extremism.

I can assure you that many Americans don't understand the difference.

I think that's true, in much the same way that most non-USians don't
understand the difference between the US populace, and the self-annointed
few that have taken over the foreign policy of the country, and insist on
blaming the foolish behavior of our First Bufoon and his henchmen on
Americans as a whole.

One thing that doesn't help the average person understand the difference
between mainstream Islam and Islamic extremism is people like Meron saying
that mainstream Islam, as it is taught in the Koran, is all about killing
all non-Muslims.

Eric Lucas

 

[John Larkin]

On Sun, 01 Oct 2006 22:14:02 GMT, "Homer J Simpson"
<nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:

"Gordon" <gordonlr@DELETEswbell.net> wrote in message
news:00c0i29vn31ejl71pku1d0r1nfaevj6p4i@4ax.com...

So you are saying they are NOT better Xtians than everyone else?

No, I'm saying that this war on terrorism started long before
President Bush and the present Republican administration was
involved in any way.

But it isn't a war. It is a problem for a police force that requires
international cooperation, something the US is notoriously unable or
unwilling to be involved in.

I don't understand those words, "international cooperation." Where
might that be found?

John

 

[Homer J Simpson]

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
news:lpr0i2tbobi9niaiul5mhiv3r5rhl1vn27@4ax.com...

But it isn't a war. It is a problem for a police force that requires
international cooperation, something the US is notoriously unable or
unwilling to be involved in.

I don't understand those words, "international cooperation." Where
might that be found?

Outside of the USA.

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Sun, 01 Oct 2006 18:46:21 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Sun, 01 Oct 2006 22:14:02 GMT, "Homer J Simpson"
nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:


"Gordon" <gordonlr@DELETEswbell.net> wrote in message
news:00c0i29vn31ejl71pku1d0r1nfaevj6p4i@4ax.com...

So you are saying they are NOT better Xtians than everyone else?

No, I'm saying that this war on terrorism started long before
President Bush and the present Republican administration was
involved in any way.

But it isn't a war. It is a problem for a police force that requires
international cooperation, something the US is notoriously unable or
unwilling to be involved in.



I don't understand those words, "international cooperation." Where
might that be found?

John

That's where we pretend we like the French ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[John Larkin]

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 02:33:19 +0100, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:

The US is not demonizing Islam, at this point. It makes the
distinction between Islam and Islamic extremism.

I can assure you that many Americans don't understand the difference.

How many is "many"? Seven? If "many" means "a significant fraction",
then you are, as usual, inventing anti-American "facts."

John

 

In article <45206C09.31550FBE@hotmail.com>, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> writes:

mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:

Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> writes:
mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> writes:
mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
"Homer J Simpson" <nobody@nowhere.com> writes:
"Gordon" <gordonlr@DELETEswbell.net> wrote in message

So you are saying they are NOT better Xtians than everyone else?

No, I'm saying that this war on terrorism started long before
President Bush and the present Republican administration was
involved in any way.

But it isn't a war.

It is a war. Refusing to recognize it as such will not make it go
away.

It's not a meaningful war since the 'enemy' isn't an identifiable entity but a 'view'.

That just makes it a far worse and more dangerous war.

Far more dangerous to us in the West for sure ! It is making Radical Islamist thinking more popular.

If you think, for a moment, that the popularity of radical Islamic
thinking depends much on what we call it, then you're thinking way too
small.

Hardly.

It depends on our behaviour - actually mainly that of the USA. Recent US behaviour has made it all that
much more attractive.

As I said, you're thinking way too small. And, too parochial. The

belief that other people are just reacting to what we do, not acting
on their own plans and ideas, is touching, but not anchored in
reality. It is a pleasant belief, no doubt, since it presents us with
the illusion of control, with the sense that ultimately all that's
happening depends only on what we do, thus we just have to find the
proper mode of behavior and everything will be great. A pleasant
illusion, but no more than this.

Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"

 

In article <45206C37.EA6475DA@hotmail.com>, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> writes:

mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:

Western Europe wasn't interested in getting much involved in the
anshluss, because it wasn't the target of Nazi expansionism.

All of which has zilch to do with this.

Yes, I'm sure you believe so.

Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"