Is Anyone in Charge of the Response to COVID-19?

[Rick C]

I don't get it. I thought NYC was in lock down, but it seems the mayor of the city and the Governor of the state are fighting over this. It was only today that the state of NY is requiring all non-essential personnel to stay home. Really? They are just getting to this point? I read that Wednesday they required 50% of non-essential workers to stay home, then Thursday 75%. Now, on Friday 100% of non-essential personnel must stay home because the numbers are still rising. Do these guys think their actions are like adjusting the faucet? Do they really not understand it takes at least a week to see a result in this situation?

The one thing we can do to pull our asses out of the fire is to lock down the majorly hit areas so the hospitals are not overwhelmed and hopefully, save a lot of lives until we can either isolate all the cases and let it self-extinguish or a treatment/vaccine is developed. NYC is one of those majorly hit areas.

Well, with 5,000 currently diagnosed in NYC alone, that means they already have some 15,000 infected that aren't diagnosed yet. With 15% needing hospital beds that is over 2,000 more hospital beds they will need if they prevent all further infections right now!

Even the medical personnel don't seem to understand the nature of exponential growth. “The most striking part is the speed with which it has ramped up", said a Queens ER doctor. Clearly he never spent any time learning about exponential growth.

We have total idiots running things and that starts at the top and follows the flow all the way down!

Looks like it's going to be a tough ride.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[bitrex]

On 3/21/2020 2:33 AM, bitrex wrote:

your ass will get a COVID-19 financial hardship check for $500, a copy
of "Atlas Shrugged" and a pack of Newports in a surplus Amazon box in
about 10 months once the package works its way through 892 hours of
debate in the Senate u filthy communist.

(except if menthol cigarettes are illegal in your state)

 

[bitrex]

On 3/21/2020 1:28 AM, Rick C wrote:

I don't get it. I thought NYC was in lock down, but it seems the mayor of the city and the Governor of the state are fighting over this. It was only today that the state of NY is requiring all non-essential personnel to stay home. Really? They are just getting to this point? I read that Wednesday they required 50% of non-essential workers to stay home, then Thursday 75%. Now, on Friday 100% of non-essential personnel must stay home because the numbers are still rising. Do these guys think their actions are like adjusting the faucet? Do they really not understand it takes at least a week to see a result in this situation?

The one thing we can do to pull our asses out of the fire is to lock down the majorly hit areas so the hospitals are not overwhelmed and hopefully, save a lot of lives until we can either isolate all the cases and let it self-extinguish or a treatment/vaccine is developed. NYC is one of those majorly hit areas.

Well, with 5,000 currently diagnosed in NYC alone, that means they already have some 15,000 infected that aren't diagnosed yet. With 15% needing hospital beds that is over 2,000 more hospital beds they will need if they prevent all further infections right now!

Even the medical personnel don't seem to understand the nature of exponential growth. “The most striking part is the speed with which it has ramped up", said a Queens ER doctor. Clearly he never spent any time learning about exponential growth.

We have total idiots running things and that starts at the top and follows the flow all the way down!

Looks like it's going to be a tough ride.

Americans only believe in the power of compound interest to make them
rich at retirement age via the index funds that just smashed thru the
floor. Not that epidemiology stuff that's like the stuff climate
scientists do. or at least they probably went to the same college. some
kind of hippy shit.

Anyway don't worry everyone we're gonna give the airlines 50 billion and
the NFL whatever they need like 500 mil ASAP to get going again this
won't happen again in 3 years.

your ass will get a COVID-19 financial hardship check for $500, a copy
of "Atlas Shrugged" and a pack of Newports in a surplus Amazon box in
about 10 months once the package works its way through 892 hours of
debate in the Senate u filthy communist.

 

[Rick C]

On Saturday, March 21, 2020 at 2:35:21 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

On 3/21/2020 2:33 AM, bitrex wrote:

your ass will get a COVID-19 financial hardship check for $500, a copy
of "Atlas Shrugged" and a pack of Newports in a surplus Amazon box in
about 10 months once the package works its way through 892 hours of
debate in the Senate u filthy communist.

(except if menthol cigarettes are illegal in your state)

Careful, your schizophrenia is showing.

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[bitrex]

On 3/21/2020 2:43 AM, Rick C wrote:

On Saturday, March 21, 2020 at 2:35:21 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 3/21/2020 2:33 AM, bitrex wrote:

your ass will get a COVID-19 financial hardship check for $500, a copy
of "Atlas Shrugged" and a pack of Newports in a surplus Amazon box in
about 10 months once the package works its way through 892 hours of
debate in the Senate u filthy communist.

(except if menthol cigarettes are illegal in your state)

Careful, your schizophrenia is showing.

Don't schizophrenics usually suffer from persecutory delusions of a
personalized nature? I don't really see how building a mind-control
device into my TV set would be worth anyone's time. unless it was just
some intellectual exercise at the factory and they didn't really care
who the TV was sold to and you just get unlucky, sometimes.

 

[Whoey Louie]

On Saturday, March 21, 2020 at 1:28:58 AM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
> I don't get it. I thought NYC was in lock down, but it seems the mayor of the city and the Governor of the state are fighting over this. It was only today that the state of NY is requiring all non-essential personnel to stay home. Really? They are just getting to this point?

Cuomo and de Blasio hate each other. de Blasio said he was considering
a shelter in place order maybe 5 days ago. Cuomo shot it down, saying
that NY will never "quarantine". In other words, they were playing
word games, with Cuomo forcing de Blasio to back down. Cuomo is on a power
trip, where only king Cuomo can do those things. Then just days later
Cuomo did what de Blasio wanted to do just a bit earlier.

But if you want to look for the epic fail, that was Cuomo failing to
quarantine Westchester which had the first outbreak and was a hotspot.
That one Jewish laywer infected a whole bunch of people. What did
Cuomo do? He instituted a "containment zone", one mile radius, where
people were not supposed to have large gatherings. BFD. Meanwhile
people were not prevented from getting on the 7:05 commuter train
to NYC, which they did and took it right on into NYC, North Jersey too.
That's how NY got to 5700 in NYC, 8500 in the state. Westchester should
have been quarantined, as should the area in WA state with the hotspot.
There is a family here in NJ that was wiped out by that spread from
Westchester, a guy in North Jersey attened a family gathering here
infecting 10 more people. He and four of that family are dead, 3
in critical condition.



I read that Wednesday they required 50% of non-essential workers to stay home, then Thursday 75%. Now, on Friday 100% of non-essential personnel must stay home because the numbers are still rising. Do these guys think their actions are like adjusting the faucet? Do they really not understand it takes at least a week to see a result in this situation?

I agree, tell Cuomo. He does like seeing himself talk, he's on TV all
the time, yapping away.

The one thing we can do to pull our asses out of the fire is to lock down the majorly hit areas so the hospitals are not overwhelmed and hopefully, save a lot of lives until we can either isolate all the cases and let it self-extinguish or a treatment/vaccine is developed. NYC is one of those majorly hit areas.

Well, with 5,000 currently diagnosed in NYC alone, that means they already have some 15,000 infected that aren't diagnosed yet. With 15% needing hospital beds that is over 2,000 more hospital beds they will need if they prevent all further infections right now!

Cuomo was just on the radio saying that NY hospitals could be over capacity
in 40 days. IDK where that came from, nor does it equate with all his
other desperate statements. I would think it would be maybe 2 weeks.

Even the medical personnel don't seem to understand the nature of exponential growth. “The most striking part is the speed with which it has ramped up", said a Queens ER doctor. Clearly he never spent any time learning about exponential growth.

We have total idiots running things and that starts at the top and follows the flow all the way down!

Looks like it's going to be a tough ride.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Whoey Louie]

On Saturday, March 21, 2020 at 5:07:41 PM UTC-4, Dave Platt wrote:

No, there is no _single_ person (or government body) in charge.

The American political system doesn't work that way. Never has,
really. There are (and were) multiple layers of authority and
jurisdiction, which often do not entirely agree.

That is partly true. But Trump already invoked the Defense Production Act.
He has the power to take control of the whole supply chain. His team
should be tallying up the critical needs from all the governors, identifying
all the suppliers, contacting them to find out their capacity this week,
their capacity by month. Then the feds need to ALLOCATE it among the states.
Instead Trump told them all to try to get it all themselves and that the
feds will also be placing orders. That is what we call a moronic cluster
fuck. And having identified the suppliers, then the feds need to look
at what their supply chain is, where bottlenecks could be and work with
all those companies to remove them, expand production. There is no indication
that is happening, except in a haphazard way.

I don't get it. I thought NYC was in lock down, but it seems the mayor of the city and the Governor of the state are fighting over
this. It was only today that the state of NY is requiring all non-essential personnel to stay home. Really? They are just getting to
this point? I read that Wednesday they required 50% of non-essential workers to stay home, then Thursday 75%. Now, on Friday 100% of
non-essential personnel must stay home because the numbers are still rising. Do these guys think their actions are like adjusting the
faucet? Do they really not understand it takes at least a week to see a result in this situation?

My guess (from out here in the cheap seats) is that they were trying
to reduce the shock to businesses which were going to have to shut
down... give them a day or two of transition time to prepare things
(and employees) for a long layoff.

That makes no sense to me. It's just pulling the businesses chain.
Tell them they can run at 50% capacity, they spend time making work
schedules, plans to fit that, then two days later, never mind, you
have to close. If you know they are going to zero, just tell them
and set a date. Also the genius Cuomo that likes to hear himself talk
on TV that is doing the above, royally screwed NYC. They had a hotspot
in Westchester County and he should have quarantined it. Instead he
allowed commuters to get on the 7:05 train to NYC and spread it there.
The result is a disaster.

It was rather more abrupt here in California... both the county-level
"shelter in place" orders, and the subsequent state-level order,
switched to "essential businesses only" without a ramping. Even so,
there's some disagreement between the wording of the county
shelter-in-place orders, and the state-level order, and this has led
to some confusion about just what businesses can stay open at all.

Even the medical personnel don't seem to understand the nature of exponential growth. “The most striking part is the speed with
which it has ramped up", said a Queens ER doctor. Clearly he never spent any time learning about exponential growth.

Well, there's school knowledge (which fades in our memory over time)
and practical hands-on-experience knowledge. As far as I can recall,
this is the first time in the lifetime of most Americans now alive
that we've been faced with a really serious exponential-growth disease
curve (highly contagious, high rate of complications, and little-to-no
immune memory in the population to help). So, in practice, it's a new
situation to most of us.

That's true, but you'd think the federal govt with all the billions
spent on the CDC, FEMA, etc would have thought all this through, would
have had a 1000 page document that a president could call upon when
it hits, instead of figuring it out on the fly. Part of that plan
should have been for multiple paths to a test kit. Instead we relied
on one with a single point of failure.

(Epidemiologists "get it", of course. So do some engineers. I doubt
this situation would have surprised anyone who ever studied the
physics of an atomic bomb.)

Looks like it's going to be a tough ride.

Yup.

 

[Dave Platt]

No, there is no _single_ person (or government body) in charge.

The American political system doesn't work that way. Never has,
really. There are (and were) multiple layers of authority and
jurisdiction, which often do not entirely agree.

I don't get it. I thought NYC was in lock down, but it seems the mayor of the city and the Governor of the state are fighting over
this. It was only today that the state of NY is requiring all non-essential personnel to stay home. Really? They are just getting to
this point? I read that Wednesday they required 50% of non-essential workers to stay home, then Thursday 75%. Now, on Friday 100% of
non-essential personnel must stay home because the numbers are still rising. Do these guys think their actions are like adjusting the
faucet? Do they really not understand it takes at least a week to see a result in this situation?

My guess (from out here in the cheap seats) is that they were trying
to reduce the shock to businesses which were going to have to shut
down... give them a day or two of transition time to prepare things
(and employees) for a long layoff.

It was rather more abrupt here in California... both the county-level
"shelter in place" orders, and the subsequent state-level order,
switched to "essential businesses only" without a ramping. Even so,
there's some disagreement between the wording of the county
shelter-in-place orders, and the state-level order, and this has led
to some confusion about just what businesses can stay open at all.

Even the medical personnel don't seem to understand the nature of exponential growth. “The most striking part is the speed with
which it has ramped up", said a Queens ER doctor. Clearly he never spent any time learning about exponential growth.

Well, there's school knowledge (which fades in our memory over time)
and practical hands-on-experience knowledge. As far as I can recall,
this is the first time in the lifetime of most Americans now alive
that we've been faced with a really serious exponential-growth disease
curve (highly contagious, high rate of complications, and little-to-no
immune memory in the population to help). So, in practice, it's a new
situation to most of us.

(Epidemiologists "get it", of course. So do some engineers. I doubt
this situation would have surprised anyone who ever studied the
physics of an atomic bomb.)

>Looks like it's going to be a tough ride.

Yup.

 

[Rick C]

On Saturday, March 21, 2020 at 5:07:41 PM UTC-4, Dave Platt wrote:

No, there is no _single_ person (or government body) in charge.

The American political system doesn't work that way. Never has,
really. There are (and were) multiple layers of authority and
jurisdiction, which often do not entirely agree.

Of course there will be a single entity making the major decisions in a major crisis. That's the only way to run anything in a crisis. When you need control the US system does provide for that which is why Trump invoked the Defense Production Act. The problem is everyone in authority still seems to be in denial about the extent of the problem.

I don't get it. I thought NYC was in lock down, but it seems the mayor of the city and the Governor of the state are fighting over
this. It was only today that the state of NY is requiring all non-essential personnel to stay home. Really? They are just getting to
this point? I read that Wednesday they required 50% of non-essential workers to stay home, then Thursday 75%. Now, on Friday 100% of
non-essential personnel must stay home because the numbers are still rising. Do these guys think their actions are like adjusting the
faucet? Do they really not understand it takes at least a week to see a result in this situation?

My guess (from out here in the cheap seats) is that they were trying
to reduce the shock to businesses which were going to have to shut
down... give them a day or two of transition time to prepare things
(and employees) for a long layoff.

I don't think that really makes any sense. Changing the status on a day by day basis doesn't reduce shock, it extends it. The real problem is no one knows what to expect next.

It was rather more abrupt here in California... both the county-level
"shelter in place" orders, and the subsequent state-level order,
switched to "essential businesses only" without a ramping. Even so,
there's some disagreement between the wording of the county
shelter-in-place orders, and the state-level order, and this has led
to some confusion about just what businesses can stay open at all.

I would not expect everything to be perfectly clear. This is a unique crisis and we are writing the playbook as we go along. My concerns are with the apparent lack of understanding of the extent of the problem. It seems that either the leaders are being given bad advice or are just ignoring it.

Even the medical personnel don't seem to understand the nature of exponential growth. “The most striking part is the speed with
which it has ramped up", said a Queens ER doctor. Clearly he never spent any time learning about exponential growth.

Well, there's school knowledge (which fades in our memory over time)
and practical hands-on-experience knowledge. As far as I can recall,
this is the first time in the lifetime of most Americans now alive
that we've been faced with a really serious exponential-growth disease
curve (highly contagious, high rate of complications, and little-to-no
immune memory in the population to help). So, in practice, it's a new
situation to most of us.

The swine flu was pretty much the same thing. We simply were not faced with the same level of deaths. Even so the number reached 12,000. That's nothing to sneeze at (no pun intended). The spread was the same exponential.

(Epidemiologists "get it", of course. So do some engineers. I doubt
this situation would have surprised anyone who ever studied the
physics of an atomic bomb.)

I just can't imagine the briefings going on within all the governments in the US.

Leader: So what can we expect over the coming weeks?

Advisor: If we maintain the course of "social distancing" we will first see the number of seriously ill to grow slowly but after not many days the growth rate will rise dramatically. Shortly after that the numbers will overwhelm the hospitals and other care systems. This will all happen within about four weeks. To prevent this requires a lock down of the population reducing contact to the absolute minimum to allow for distribution of food and essentials.

Leader: Ok, so we don't need to close the beaches or bars or restaurants. We can recommend to keep the group sizes to 10 and under and space from other people of six feet, right? We don't need to close work spaces and inconvenience businesses?

Advisor: (palms head and looks down at the table) Ok, that sounds good. I guess it's more important to keep the economy healthy than people. BTW, what happens when... never mind.

Especially telling was Trump's response to the reporter's question of what to say to people who are afraid. That was his opportunity to talk to the people and reassure them. Nope, not Trump.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Saturday, March 21, 2020 at 5:20:32 PM UTC-4, Whoey Louie wrote:

That's true, but you'd think the federal govt with all the billions
spent on the CDC, FEMA, etc would have thought all this through, would
have had a 1000 page document that a president could call upon when
it hits, instead of figuring it out on the fly. Part of that plan
should have been for multiple paths to a test kit. Instead we relied
on one with a single point of failure.

I have to agree on much of that. I worked a project once where I was the guy who knew something about risk reduction and program management, but was not in charge. The guy in charge was an Army reserve officer. We needed a piece of hardware built by an outside company and had three options for doing it. They wanted to choose one of the three. I pointed out that not only was this the riskiest part of the project, we had little visibility and no control over the result other than accepting or rejecting it, plus a failure in this would have the largest impact on the schedule of any other portion of the project. So I said we should at least take two approaches part way until we had more confidence one would pan out. That idea was rejected... hard and with authority.

You know what happened. This was during the .com bubble and the company ignored our project while they pursued other efforts the company thought would pay out big. We waited many weeks and then found we needed to pursue another approach. Major schedule impact. Yup, I told the guy "I told you so", but only once, compared to the half dozen times I pushed to try to get a second approach engaged.

Maybe this is the perfect storm of a disease. Maybe this is the epidemiologists' nightmare scenario and was hugely improbable. I dunno, but I do know we are botching the job hugely and many will die as a result.

Maybe we will get lucky and one of the novel treatments will work. But given the extreme lack of understanding of the situation by our leaders, that is the only way we are going to emerge without horrible scars as a nation.

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Saturday, March 21, 2020 at 7:06:08 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

On 3/21/2020 10:36 AM, Whoey Louie wrote:
On Saturday, March 21, 2020 at 1:28:58 AM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
I don't get it. I thought NYC was in lock down, but it seems the mayor of the city and the Governor of the state are fighting over this. It was only today that the state of NY is requiring all non-essential personnel to stay home. Really? They are just getting to this point?

Cuomo and de Blasio hate each other. de Blasio said he was considering
a shelter in place order maybe 5 days ago. Cuomo shot it down, saying
that NY will never "quarantine". In other words, they were playing
word games, with Cuomo forcing de Blasio to back down. Cuomo is on a power
trip, where only king Cuomo can do those things. Then just days later
Cuomo did what de Blasio wanted to do just a bit earlier.

But if you want to look for the epic fail, that was Cuomo failing to
quarantine Westchester which had the first outbreak and was a hotspot.
That one Jewish laywer infected a whole bunch of people. What did
Cuomo do? He instituted a "containment zone", one mile radius, where
people were not supposed to have large gatherings. BFD. Meanwhile
people were not prevented from getting on the 7:05 commuter train
to NYC, which they did and took it right on into NYC, North Jersey too.
That's how NY got to 5700 in NYC, 8500 in the state. Westchester should
have been quarantined, as should the area in WA state with the hotspot.
There is a family here in NJ that was wiped out by that spread from
Westchester, a guy in North Jersey attened a family gathering here
infecting 10 more people. He and four of that family are dead, 3
in critical condition.



I read that Wednesday they required 50% of non-essential workers to stay home, then Thursday 75%. Now, on Friday 100% of non-essential personnel must stay home because the numbers are still rising. Do these guys think their actions are like adjusting the faucet? Do they really not understand it takes at least a week to see a result in this situation?

I agree, tell Cuomo. He does like seeing himself talk, he's on TV all
the time, yapping away.


MA leadership doesn't seem to be doing much, Charlie Baker has said
they'll never quarantine or shelter in place or any of that stuff
either. Roads are crowded as always people just going about their
business, probably more so as grocery, banks, and drug stores are
running restricted hours I saw like 100 elderly people lined up outside
one the other day because with restricted hours they can't afford to pay
cashiers so there are only like 2 on duty. so much for restricting
gatherings of 25+ people.

Odd. When I was at the market yesterday here the store was pretty packed and they had more checkers than I've ever seen.

Not having checkers because the hours are short makes no sense. More crowded means they need more checkers for the shorter day.

--

Rick C.

+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[bitrex]

On 3/21/2020 6:03 PM, Rick C wrote:

On Saturday, March 21, 2020 at 5:07:41 PM UTC-4, Dave Platt wrote:
No, there is no _single_ person (or government body) in charge.

The American political system doesn't work that way. Never has,
really. There are (and were) multiple layers of authority and
jurisdiction, which often do not entirely agree.

Of course there will be a single entity making the major decisions in a major crisis. That's the only way to run anything in a crisis. When you need control the US system does provide for that which is why Trump invoked the Defense Production Act. The problem is everyone in authority still seems to be in denial about the extent of the problem.


I don't get it. I thought NYC was in lock down, but it seems the mayor of the city and the Governor of the state are fighting over
this. It was only today that the state of NY is requiring all non-essential personnel to stay home. Really? They are just getting to
this point? I read that Wednesday they required 50% of non-essential workers to stay home, then Thursday 75%. Now, on Friday 100% of
non-essential personnel must stay home because the numbers are still rising. Do these guys think their actions are like adjusting the
faucet? Do they really not understand it takes at least a week to see a result in this situation?

My guess (from out here in the cheap seats) is that they were trying
to reduce the shock to businesses which were going to have to shut
down... give them a day or two of transition time to prepare things
(and employees) for a long layoff.

I don't think that really makes any sense. Changing the status on a day by day basis doesn't reduce shock, it extends it. The real problem is no one knows what to expect next.


It was rather more abrupt here in California... both the county-level
"shelter in place" orders, and the subsequent state-level order,
switched to "essential businesses only" without a ramping. Even so,
there's some disagreement between the wording of the county
shelter-in-place orders, and the state-level order, and this has led
to some confusion about just what businesses can stay open at all.

I would not expect everything to be perfectly clear. This is a unique crisis and we are writing the playbook as we go along. My concerns are with the apparent lack of understanding of the extent of the problem. It seems that either the leaders are being given bad advice or are just ignoring it.


Even the medical personnel don't seem to understand the nature of exponential growth. “The most striking part is the speed with
which it has ramped up", said a Queens ER doctor. Clearly he never spent any time learning about exponential growth.

Well, there's school knowledge (which fades in our memory over time)
and practical hands-on-experience knowledge. As far as I can recall,
this is the first time in the lifetime of most Americans now alive
that we've been faced with a really serious exponential-growth disease
curve (highly contagious, high rate of complications, and little-to-no
immune memory in the population to help). So, in practice, it's a new
situation to most of us.

The swine flu was pretty much the same thing. We simply were not faced with the same level of deaths. Even so the number reached 12,000. That's nothing to sneeze at (no pun intended). The spread was the same exponential.


(Epidemiologists "get it", of course. So do some engineers. I doubt
this situation would have surprised anyone who ever studied the
physics of an atomic bomb.)

I just can't imagine the briefings going on within all the governments in the US.

Leader: So what can we expect over the coming weeks?

Advisor: If we maintain the course of "social distancing" we will first see the number of seriously ill to grow slowly but after not many days the growth rate will rise dramatically. Shortly after that the numbers will overwhelm the hospitals and other care systems. This will all happen within about four weeks. To prevent this requires a lock down of the population reducing contact to the absolute minimum to allow for distribution of food and essentials.

Leader: Ok, so we don't need to close the beaches or bars or restaurants. We can recommend to keep the group sizes to 10 and under and space from other people of six feet, right? We don't need to close work spaces and inconvenience businesses?

Advisor: (palms head and looks down at the table) Ok, that sounds good. I guess it's more important to keep the economy healthy than people. BTW, what happens when... never mind.

Especially telling was Trump's response to the reporter's question of what to say to people who are afraid. That was his opportunity to talk to the people and reassure them. Nope, not Trump.

“National Guard members should also be posted at hospitals to assure
restricted visitation is followed without having to pull direct care
staff away from patient care,” she writes. “Unfortunately, we cannot
rely on all members of the public to adhere to all directives issued by
the state and federal government. Bringing in the National Guard will
free up staff resources from having to police these issues.”

<https://www.bostonherald.com/2020/03/19/nurses-call-for-national-guard-help-blizzard-of-78-travel-restrictions-over-coronavirus/>

The plan in Massachusetts seems to be to mobilize the National Guard,
deploy them to any hospitals that get filled and turn people away at
gunpoint.

 

[bitrex]

On 3/21/2020 7:10 PM, Rick C wrote:

On Saturday, March 21, 2020 at 7:06:08 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 3/21/2020 10:36 AM, Whoey Louie wrote:
On Saturday, March 21, 2020 at 1:28:58 AM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
I don't get it. I thought NYC was in lock down, but it seems the mayor of the city and the Governor of the state are fighting over this. It was only today that the state of NY is requiring all non-essential personnel to stay home. Really? They are just getting to this point?

Cuomo and de Blasio hate each other. de Blasio said he was considering
a shelter in place order maybe 5 days ago. Cuomo shot it down, saying
that NY will never "quarantine". In other words, they were playing
word games, with Cuomo forcing de Blasio to back down. Cuomo is on a power
trip, where only king Cuomo can do those things. Then just days later
Cuomo did what de Blasio wanted to do just a bit earlier.

But if you want to look for the epic fail, that was Cuomo failing to
quarantine Westchester which had the first outbreak and was a hotspot.
That one Jewish laywer infected a whole bunch of people. What did
Cuomo do? He instituted a "containment zone", one mile radius, where
people were not supposed to have large gatherings. BFD. Meanwhile
people were not prevented from getting on the 7:05 commuter train
to NYC, which they did and took it right on into NYC, North Jersey too.
That's how NY got to 5700 in NYC, 8500 in the state. Westchester should
have been quarantined, as should the area in WA state with the hotspot.
There is a family here in NJ that was wiped out by that spread from
Westchester, a guy in North Jersey attened a family gathering here
infecting 10 more people. He and four of that family are dead, 3
in critical condition.



I read that Wednesday they required 50% of non-essential workers to stay home, then Thursday 75%. Now, on Friday 100% of non-essential personnel must stay home because the numbers are still rising. Do these guys think their actions are like adjusting the faucet? Do they really not understand it takes at least a week to see a result in this situation?

I agree, tell Cuomo. He does like seeing himself talk, he's on TV all
the time, yapping away.


MA leadership doesn't seem to be doing much, Charlie Baker has said
they'll never quarantine or shelter in place or any of that stuff
either. Roads are crowded as always people just going about their
business, probably more so as grocery, banks, and drug stores are
running restricted hours I saw like 100 elderly people lined up outside
one the other day because with restricted hours they can't afford to pay
cashiers so there are only like 2 on duty. so much for restricting
gatherings of 25+ people.

Odd. When I was at the market yesterday here the store was pretty packed and they had more checkers than I've ever seen.

Not having checkers because the hours are short makes no sense. More crowded means they need more checkers for the shorter day.

They're trying to save money and maximize their profit same as always
they don't give a shit how long someone has to wait, they need food,
they'll wait.

 

dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave Platt) wrote in news:s8cikg-g9j.ln1
@coop.radagast.org:

No, there is no _single_ person (or government body) in charge.

The American political system doesn't work that way.

Somebody better tell the Dangerous Buffoon, Donald John Trump then.
That retarded sonofabitch has no clue how the American political system
works. All he knows is how to act like an NYC Roy Cohn modeled
mobster shyster know nothing jackass.

 

[mpm]

On Saturday, March 21, 2020 at 6:03:49 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
> Especially telling was Trump's response to the reporter's question of what to say to people who are afraid. That was his opportunity to talk to the people and reassure them. Nope, not Trump.

Trump's probably working 22 hours a day on this Coronavirus thing.
I'm inclined to give him a pass on it.

 

On Sat, 21 Mar 2020 14:07:08 -0700, dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave
Platt) wrote:

No, there is no _single_ person (or government body) in charge.

The American political system doesn't work that way. Never has,
really. There are (and were) multiple layers of authority and
jurisdiction, which often do not entirely agree.

I don't get it. I thought NYC was in lock down, but it seems the mayor of the city and the Governor of the state are fighting over
this. It was only today that the state of NY is requiring all non-essential personnel to stay home. Really? They are just getting to
this point? I read that Wednesday they required 50% of non-essential workers to stay home, then Thursday 75%. Now, on Friday 100% of
non-essential personnel must stay home because the numbers are still rising. Do these guys think their actions are like adjusting the
faucet? Do they really not understand it takes at least a week to see a result in this situation?

My guess (from out here in the cheap seats) is that they were trying
to reduce the shock to businesses which were going to have to shut
down... give them a day or two of transition time to prepare things
(and employees) for a long layoff.

It was rather more abrupt here in California... both the county-level
"shelter in place" orders, and the subsequent state-level order,
switched to "essential businesses only" without a ramping. Even so,
there's some disagreement between the wording of the county
shelter-in-place orders, and the state-level order, and this has led
to some confusion about just what businesses can stay open at all.

Even the medical personnel don't seem to understand the nature of exponential growth. “The most striking part is the speed with
which it has ramped up", said a Queens ER doctor. Clearly he never spent any time learning about exponential growth.

Well, there's school knowledge (which fades in our memory over time)
and practical hands-on-experience knowledge. As far as I can recall,
this is the first time in the lifetime of most Americans now alive
that we've been faced with a really serious exponential-growth disease
curve (highly contagious, high rate of complications, and little-to-no
immune memory in the population to help). So, in practice, it's a new
situation to most of us.

(Epidemiologists "get it", of course. So do some engineers. I doubt
this situation would have surprised anyone who ever studied the
physics of an atomic bomb.)

Don't all seasonal flus grow exponentially? What's special about this
one?



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The cork popped merrily, and Lord Peter rose to his feet.
"Bunter", he said, "I give you a toast. The triumph of Instinct over Reason"

 

[bitrex]

On 3/21/2020 10:36 AM, Whoey Louie wrote:

On Saturday, March 21, 2020 at 1:28:58 AM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
I don't get it. I thought NYC was in lock down, but it seems the mayor of the city and the Governor of the state are fighting over this. It was only today that the state of NY is requiring all non-essential personnel to stay home. Really? They are just getting to this point?

Cuomo and de Blasio hate each other. de Blasio said he was considering
a shelter in place order maybe 5 days ago. Cuomo shot it down, saying
that NY will never "quarantine". In other words, they were playing
word games, with Cuomo forcing de Blasio to back down. Cuomo is on a power
trip, where only king Cuomo can do those things. Then just days later
Cuomo did what de Blasio wanted to do just a bit earlier.

But if you want to look for the epic fail, that was Cuomo failing to
quarantine Westchester which had the first outbreak and was a hotspot.
That one Jewish laywer infected a whole bunch of people. What did
Cuomo do? He instituted a "containment zone", one mile radius, where
people were not supposed to have large gatherings. BFD. Meanwhile
people were not prevented from getting on the 7:05 commuter train
to NYC, which they did and took it right on into NYC, North Jersey too.
That's how NY got to 5700 in NYC, 8500 in the state. Westchester should
have been quarantined, as should the area in WA state with the hotspot.
There is a family here in NJ that was wiped out by that spread from
Westchester, a guy in North Jersey attened a family gathering here
infecting 10 more people. He and four of that family are dead, 3
in critical condition.



I read that Wednesday they required 50% of non-essential workers to stay home, then Thursday 75%. Now, on Friday 100% of non-essential personnel must stay home because the numbers are still rising. Do these guys think their actions are like adjusting the faucet? Do they really not understand it takes at least a week to see a result in this situation?

I agree, tell Cuomo. He does like seeing himself talk, he's on TV all
the time, yapping away.

MA leadership doesn't seem to be doing much, Charlie Baker has said
they'll never quarantine or shelter in place or any of that stuff
either. Roads are crowded as always people just going about their
business, probably more so as grocery, banks, and drug stores are
running restricted hours I saw like 100 elderly people lined up outside
one the other day because with restricted hours they can't afford to pay
cashiers so there are only like 2 on duty. so much for restricting
gatherings of 25+ people.

 

[Rick C]

On Saturday, March 21, 2020 at 7:34:51 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Sat, 21 Mar 2020 14:07:08 -0700, dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave
Platt) wrote:

No, there is no _single_ person (or government body) in charge.

The American political system doesn't work that way. Never has,
really. There are (and were) multiple layers of authority and
jurisdiction, which often do not entirely agree.

I don't get it. I thought NYC was in lock down, but it seems the mayor of the city and the Governor of the state are fighting over
this. It was only today that the state of NY is requiring all non-essential personnel to stay home. Really? They are just getting to
this point? I read that Wednesday they required 50% of non-essential workers to stay home, then Thursday 75%. Now, on Friday 100% of
non-essential personnel must stay home because the numbers are still rising. Do these guys think their actions are like adjusting the
faucet? Do they really not understand it takes at least a week to see a result in this situation?

My guess (from out here in the cheap seats) is that they were trying
to reduce the shock to businesses which were going to have to shut
down... give them a day or two of transition time to prepare things
(and employees) for a long layoff.

It was rather more abrupt here in California... both the county-level
"shelter in place" orders, and the subsequent state-level order,
switched to "essential businesses only" without a ramping. Even so,
there's some disagreement between the wording of the county
shelter-in-place orders, and the state-level order, and this has led
to some confusion about just what businesses can stay open at all.

Even the medical personnel don't seem to understand the nature of exponential growth. “The most striking part is the speed with
which it has ramped up", said a Queens ER doctor. Clearly he never spent any time learning about exponential growth.

Well, there's school knowledge (which fades in our memory over time)
and practical hands-on-experience knowledge. As far as I can recall,
this is the first time in the lifetime of most Americans now alive
that we've been faced with a really serious exponential-growth disease
curve (highly contagious, high rate of complications, and little-to-no
immune memory in the population to help). So, in practice, it's a new
situation to most of us.

(Epidemiologists "get it", of course. So do some engineers. I doubt
this situation would have surprised anyone who ever studied the
physics of an atomic bomb.)

Don't all seasonal flus grow exponentially? What's special about this
one?

This has been answered how many times??? If JL doesn't get it by now he will never understand. This is literally willful ignorance.

In spite of all the ignorant talk, he seems to be doing what he is supposed to do and will likely not get this terrible disease. I hope none of us get it, but I know some will.

--

Rick C.

--+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Saturday, March 21, 2020 at 7:17:37 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

Odd. When I was at the market yesterday here the store was pretty packed and they had more checkers than I've ever seen.

Not having checkers because the hours are short makes no sense. More crowded means they need more checkers for the shorter day.


They're trying to save money and maximize their profit same as always
they don't give a shit how long someone has to wait, they need food,
they'll wait.

You aren't making sense. It may well be they can't get people to come in to work. Markets will be the new infection centers now that restaurants and bars are closed.

--

Rick C.

--- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Saturday, March 21, 2020 at 7:11:50 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

On 3/21/2020 6:03 PM, Rick C wrote:
On Saturday, March 21, 2020 at 5:07:41 PM UTC-4, Dave Platt wrote:
No, there is no _single_ person (or government body) in charge.

The American political system doesn't work that way. Never has,
really. There are (and were) multiple layers of authority and
jurisdiction, which often do not entirely agree.

Of course there will be a single entity making the major decisions in a major crisis. That's the only way to run anything in a crisis. When you need control the US system does provide for that which is why Trump invoked the Defense Production Act. The problem is everyone in authority still seems to be in denial about the extent of the problem.


I don't get it. I thought NYC was in lock down, but it seems the mayor of the city and the Governor of the state are fighting over
this. It was only today that the state of NY is requiring all non-essential personnel to stay home. Really? They are just getting to
this point? I read that Wednesday they required 50% of non-essential workers to stay home, then Thursday 75%. Now, on Friday 100% of
non-essential personnel must stay home because the numbers are still rising. Do these guys think their actions are like adjusting the
faucet? Do they really not understand it takes at least a week to see a result in this situation?

My guess (from out here in the cheap seats) is that they were trying
to reduce the shock to businesses which were going to have to shut
down... give them a day or two of transition time to prepare things
(and employees) for a long layoff.

I don't think that really makes any sense. Changing the status on a day by day basis doesn't reduce shock, it extends it. The real problem is no one knows what to expect next.


It was rather more abrupt here in California... both the county-level
"shelter in place" orders, and the subsequent state-level order,
switched to "essential businesses only" without a ramping. Even so,
there's some disagreement between the wording of the county
shelter-in-place orders, and the state-level order, and this has led
to some confusion about just what businesses can stay open at all.

I would not expect everything to be perfectly clear. This is a unique crisis and we are writing the playbook as we go along. My concerns are with the apparent lack of understanding of the extent of the problem. It seems that either the leaders are being given bad advice or are just ignoring it.


Even the medical personnel don't seem to understand the nature of exponential growth. “The most striking part is the speed with
which it has ramped up", said a Queens ER doctor. Clearly he never spent any time learning about exponential growth.

Well, there's school knowledge (which fades in our memory over time)
and practical hands-on-experience knowledge. As far as I can recall,
this is the first time in the lifetime of most Americans now alive
that we've been faced with a really serious exponential-growth disease
curve (highly contagious, high rate of complications, and little-to-no
immune memory in the population to help). So, in practice, it's a new
situation to most of us.

The swine flu was pretty much the same thing. We simply were not faced with the same level of deaths. Even so the number reached 12,000. That's nothing to sneeze at (no pun intended). The spread was the same exponential.


(Epidemiologists "get it", of course. So do some engineers. I doubt
this situation would have surprised anyone who ever studied the
physics of an atomic bomb.)

I just can't imagine the briefings going on within all the governments in the US.

Leader: So what can we expect over the coming weeks?

Advisor: If we maintain the course of "social distancing" we will first see the number of seriously ill to grow slowly but after not many days the growth rate will rise dramatically. Shortly after that the numbers will overwhelm the hospitals and other care systems. This will all happen within about four weeks. To prevent this requires a lock down of the population reducing contact to the absolute minimum to allow for distribution of food and essentials.

Leader: Ok, so we don't need to close the beaches or bars or restaurants. We can recommend to keep the group sizes to 10 and under and space from other people of six feet, right? We don't need to close work spaces and inconvenience businesses?

Advisor: (palms head and looks down at the table) Ok, that sounds good.. I guess it's more important to keep the economy healthy than people. BTW, what happens when... never mind.

Especially telling was Trump's response to the reporter's question of what to say to people who are afraid. That was his opportunity to talk to the people and reassure them. Nope, not Trump.


“National Guard members should also be posted at hospitals to assure
restricted visitation is followed without having to pull direct care
staff away from patient care,” she writes. “Unfortunately, we cannot
rely on all members of the public to adhere to all directives issued by
the state and federal government. Bringing in the National Guard will
free up staff resources from having to police these issues.”

https://www.bostonherald.com/2020/03/19/nurses-call-for-national-guard-help-blizzard-of-78-travel-restrictions-over-coronavirus/

The plan in Massachusetts seems to be to mobilize the National Guard,
deploy them to any hospitals that get filled and turn people away at
gunpoint.

If that is an accurate quote, the object is to prevent non-patients from visiting patients which is an entirely reasonable goal. I've had doctors recommend to not visit hospitals because they are breeding grounds for disease without the CV.

I can't see how the National Guard will be required. That's just silly. The hospitals I've been in have an adequate number of security people to handle this sort of problem.

--

Rick C.

++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209