Is 4kHz too high a beeper frequency?

[Phil Allison]

DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

=======================================

** Nonsenese.

Localisation difficulty is caused by massive room echoes.

Plus the third harmonic at 12kHz is the only audible one, so




Plus square wave input to such an audio transducer rarely get
produced as a true square. Things get rounded. Same with sawtooth.
The transducer simply cannot respond that fast and the mechanical
response itself gets damped a bit.

** The capacitive load of a piezo element means current flow is proportional to applied frequency. So squarewave drive means odd harmonics have the same current as the fundamental.

The famous piezo tweeter has strong output to well beyond the audio band for this reason - up to 40 kHz in some examples.


..... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

You should still check out the tuning applet. Especially if you
play an instrument or sing.

** ????

 

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote in
news:3681cf3c-de87-4367-97f9-b311d2688a42@googlegroups.com:

DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

=======================================



** Nonsenese.

Localisation difficulty is caused by massive room echoes.

Plus the third harmonic at 12kHz is the only audible one, so




Plus square wave input to such an audio transducer rarely get
produced as a true square. Things get rounded. Same with
sawtooth. The transducer simply cannot respond that fast and the
mechanical response itself gets damped a bit.


** The capacitive load of a piezo element means current flow is
proportional to applied frequency. So squarewave drive means odd
harmonics have the same current as the fundamental.

The famous piezo tweeter has strong output to well beyond the
audio band for this reason - up to 40 kHz in some examples.


.... Phil

You should still check out the tuning applet. Especially if you
play an instrument or sing.

 

[Phil Allison]

On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 12:46:48 PM UTC+10, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote in news:d1ef40c8-4430-46cb-
9936-2f00e80180b5@googlegroups.com:

DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:



You should still check out the tuning applet. Especially if you
play an instrument or sing.


** ????


In my original response was a link...

https://tonalenergy.com/

** I'm still no wiser about what your idea is.


..... Phil

 

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote in news:d1ef40c8-4430-46cb-
9936-2f00e80180b5@googlegroups.com:

DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:



You should still check out the tuning applet. Especially if you
play an instrument or sing.


** ????

In my original response was a link...

<https://tonalenergy.com/>

 

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote in
news:62e70e62-be78-484b-9a95-f8065a0d08ba@googlegroups.com:

On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 12:46:48 PM UTC+10,
DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote in
news:d1ef40c8-4430-46cb- 9936-2f00e80180b5@googlegroups.com:

DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:



You should still check out the tuning applet. Especially if
you
play an instrument or sing.


** ????


In my original response was a link...

https://tonalenergy.com/


** I'm still no wiser about what your idea is.


.... Phil

You can use it to generate a tone, you can use it to tell you what
any local tone is oscillating at. VERY accurately.

It can be used to tune your instruments and your voice. It also
has a nice metronome in there.

 

[Phil Allison]

DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

-------------------------------------

You can use it to generate a tone, you can use it to tell you what
any local tone is oscillating at. VERY accurately.

It can be used to tune your instruments and your voice. It also
has a nice metronome in there.

** I have microphones, frequency counters, sine/square wave generators and scopes that do that too plus a good guitar tuner.

But I do not have a smart phone.

Horrible things.



...... Phil

 

[Pimpom]

On 4/24/2020 9:17 AM, Phil Allison wrote:

** I have microphones, frequency counters, sine/square wave generators and scopes that do that too plus a good guitar tuner.

But I do not have a smart phone.

Horrible things.

I have one and have had several but I never use them. I either
give them away or resell them. Friends and family keep urging me
to use them and I can see where they can be useful. But seeing so
many people letting the damned things dictate their lives turns
me off.

I used a Nokia C2-01 for a long time. Nice little thing but it
was stolen, after which I fell back on my ancient Nokia 1100. It
serves well enough for receiving text and confirmation calls from
banks and companies that accept only mobile phone numbers.

I have a landline phone in my home office and others around the
house, plus a Panasonic cordless phone.

 

[Phil Allison]

Pimpom wrote:

------------

Phil Allison wrote:

** I have microphones, frequency counters, sine/square wave generators and scopes that do that too plus a good guitar tuner.

But I do not have a smart phone.

Horrible things.


I have one and have had several but I never use them. I either
give them away or resell them. Friends and family keep urging me
to use them and I can see where they can be useful. But seeing so
many people letting the damned things dictate their lives turns
me off.

** I have Indian neighbors, from Hyderabad.

They and their Indian friends spend all day staring at the things and seem to accept whatever nonsense they find as fact.

I call them " Indian magic screens."

You do get the joke ?


.... Phil

 

[Ricky C]

On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 3:15:19 AM UTC-4, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

Ricky C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
news:90e0a1b0-a24a-42ac-a791-913ab89efde5@googlegroups.com:

The one great feature of a land line is the voice quality. No
cell phone can compare.

yer nuts.

POTS = 300 to 3400 Hz MAX

Cell phone, locally is like 200 to 20,000 Hz.

The cell connection band, however, is the same as POTS because we
need to talk to dopey copper connected dolts occasionally. So they
handcuffed it to the same 300 to 3400 Hz. Not even a function of the
phones so much as the cell nodes.

And ANY music over the cell is better than ANY wired phone. Because
unlike voice calls, streamed media gets buffered and the cell plays
back FOOL spectrum audio.

Nope, not even close. Cell phones have to conserve network band width. They use voice compression that is much less than 56 kbps and sounds it very much. Then there are bit errors and drop outs. Like digital TV if our connection isn't great the bit errors show up very quickly.

I know you won't accept any of this, but that's they way cell phones are over more than half the country. If you have a great connection to your tower and it's not morning or evening rush hour or some time between, you might get a good connection. Other places and at the congested times voice quality sucks.

--

Rick C.

--+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote in
news:d7fdfe76-50f9-4c29-bea4-5182e714ced0@googlegroups.com:

DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

-------------------------------------

You can use it to generate a tone, you can use it to tell you
what
any local tone is oscillating at. VERY accurately.

It can be used to tune your instruments and your voice. It also
has a nice metronome in there.


** I have microphones, frequency counters, sine/square wave
generators and scopes that do that too plus a good guitar tuner.

But I do not have a smart phone.

Horrible things.

Probably a PC version too. Or any tablet. You got a tablet? Not
any kind of horrible thing. Modern technology. Event Einstein would
say so.

The thing is a freq counter gives you a number. (which smart phones
can also do, BTW) This tuner app tells you the musical note as well
as the frequency and tells you how many 'cents' off you are. That is
a musical term. It is so much better than a frequency counter fed by
a microphone. Instrument tuning apps are pro apps and have surpassed
a tuning whistle by far.

 

[Ricky C]

On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 1:56:21 AM UTC-4, Pimpom wrote:

On 4/24/2020 9:17 AM, Phil Allison wrote:

** I have microphones, frequency counters, sine/square wave generators and scopes that do that too plus a good guitar tuner.

But I do not have a smart phone.

Horrible things.


I have one and have had several but I never use them. I either
give them away or resell them. Friends and family keep urging me
to use them and I can see where they can be useful. But seeing so
many people letting the damned things dictate their lives turns
me off.

I don't know what that means, "dictate their lives"??? I use mine. I like to get the Google news on it. I can do that on the computer, but it doesn't seem to work the same. It's one of the few things that works better on the phone. I also text so much more than I did with the flip phone because I don't even have to type! I can talk to the phone and it sends my text messages!!! That is totally cool, but how is any of it "dictating my life"???

Do you yell at kids to stay off your lawn?

I used a Nokia C2-01 for a long time. Nice little thing but it
was stolen, after which I fell back on my ancient Nokia 1100. It
serves well enough for receiving text and confirmation calls from
banks and companies that accept only mobile phone numbers.

I have a landline phone in my home office and others around the
house, plus a Panasonic cordless phone.

The one great feature of a land line is the voice quality. No cell phone can compare. Where I am my cells don't always have coverage. But they work other than within 100 feet of my house. The voice quality can suck and calls can drop, but it can drop calls hundreds of miles from my home or office. Since I finally got a smart phone it has been nothing but better than my old flip phone.

--

Rick C.

---+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
---+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Pimpom]

On 4/24/2020 11:41 AM, Phil Allison wrote:

Pimpom wrote:

------------

Phil Allison wrote:

** I have microphones, frequency counters, sine/square wave generators and scopes that do that too plus a good guitar tuner.

But I do not have a smart phone.

Horrible things.


I have one and have had several but I never use them. I either
give them away or resell them. Friends and family keep urging me
to use them and I can see where they can be useful. But seeing so
many people letting the damned things dictate their lives turns
me off.


** I have Indian neighbors, from Hyderabad.

They and their Indian friends spend all day staring at the things and seem to accept whatever nonsense they find as fact.

I call them " Indian magic screens."

You do get the joke ?

Certainly I'm all too familiar with the scene. Small screen
addiction is one of the few things my people have in common with
the rest of India. The current craze is WhatsApp, more so than
Facebook.

 

Ricky C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
news:90e0a1b0-a24a-42ac-a791-913ab89efde5@googlegroups.com:

The one great feature of a land line is the voice quality. No
cell phone can compare.

yer nuts.

POTS = 300 to 3400 Hz MAX

Cell phone, locally is like 200 to 20,000 Hz.

The cell connection band, however, is the same as POTS because we
need to talk to dopey copper connected dolts occasionally. So they
handcuffed it to the same 300 to 3400 Hz. Not even a function of the
phones so much as the cell nodes.

And ANY music over the cell is better than ANY wired phone. Because
unlike voice calls, streamed media gets buffered and the cell plays
back FOOL spectrum audio.

 

[Phil Allison]

Pimpom wrote:

============

But I do not have a smart phone.

Horrible things.


I have one and have had several but I never use them. I either
give them away or resell them. Friends and family keep urging me
to use them and I can see where they can be useful. But seeing so
many people letting the damned things dictate their lives turns
me off.


** I have Indian neighbors, from Hyderabad.

They and their Indian friends spend all day staring at the things and seem to accept whatever nonsense they find as fact.

I call them " Indian magic screens."

You do get the joke ?


Certainly I'm all too familiar with the scene. Small screen
addiction is one of the few things my people have in common with
the rest of India. The current craze is WhatsApp, more so than
Facebook.

** My lot are obsessed with Zoom meetings on their big screen TV.

8 brown faces at once, family members, all talking Telugu simultaneously.

Way too much for this little Koala to bear.




..... Phil

 

Ricky C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
news:9dcba93e-7cd7-4882-8119-5520edd126f2@googlegroups.com:

On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 3:15:19 AM UTC-4,
DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
Ricky C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
news:90e0a1b0-a24a-42ac-a791-913ab89efde5@googlegroups.com:

The one great feature of a land line is the voice quality. No
cell phone can compare.

yer nuts.

POTS = 300 to 3400 Hz MAX

Cell phone, locally is like 200 to 20,000 Hz.

The cell connection band, however, is the same as POTS because
we
need to talk to dopey copper connected dolts occasionally. So
they handcuffed it to the same 300 to 3400 Hz. Not even a
function of the phones so much as the cell nodes.

And ANY music over the cell is better than ANY wired phone.
Because
unlike voice calls, streamed media gets buffered and the cell
plays back FOOL spectrum audio.

Nope, not even close. Cell phones have to conserve network band
width.

Nope. Cell phones stream fucking movies and live porn. They are
packet streaming motherfuckers, and the audio cutoff on a phone call
is deliberate but not due to any network loading.

Cell phones making standard phone calls have the audio bandwidth
limited to MATCH that of POTS systems, and it has nothing to do with
conservation of bandwidth.

They use voice compression that is much less than 56 kbps
and sounds it very much.

No. Old shitty phones did dumb things like that.

> Then there are bit errors and drop outs.

Funny, I DL 2.5GB files at 1.5MB/s on a rgular basis. They are bit
for bit "perfect calls".

Audio "phone calls" have little glitches if either phone has a VOX
or half duplex thing bouncing around. If both phones are newer there
is no such dropouts, unless you are deep inside a building.

Like digital TV if our connection isn't great the bit errors show
up very quickly.

Digital TV here is all or none. The tuner either gives you a
perfect full picture and sound, or it blanks the entire thing and
tells you no signal or weak signal. That is not about bandwidth
though. That is about reflections and sgnal strength, etc.

Cells are fed from nearby. Digital TV can be from a transmitter 40
miles away.

I know you won't accept any of this, but that's they way cell
phones are over more than half the country.

Whatever. Maybe you have not been keeping up. because I do not
see the issues you speak of, even my Obama phone works well.

If you have a great
connection to your tower and it's not morning or evening rush hour
or some time between, you might get a good connection. Other
places and at the congested times voice quality sucks.

Sounds like your local cell system sucks. You in Timbuktu?

 

[Ricky C]

On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 4:23:07 AM UTC-4, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

Ricky C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
news:9dcba93e-7cd7-4882-8119-5520edd126f2@googlegroups.com:

On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 3:15:19 AM UTC-4,
DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
Ricky C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
news:90e0a1b0-a24a-42ac-a791-913ab89efde5@googlegroups.com:

The one great feature of a land line is the voice quality. No
cell phone can compare.

yer nuts.

POTS = 300 to 3400 Hz MAX

Cell phone, locally is like 200 to 20,000 Hz.

The cell connection band, however, is the same as POTS because
we
need to talk to dopey copper connected dolts occasionally. So
they handcuffed it to the same 300 to 3400 Hz. Not even a
function of the phones so much as the cell nodes.

And ANY music over the cell is better than ANY wired phone.
Because
unlike voice calls, streamed media gets buffered and the cell
plays back FOOL spectrum audio.

Nope, not even close. Cell phones have to conserve network band
width.

Nope. Cell phones stream fucking movies and live porn. They are
packet streaming motherfuckers, and the audio cutoff on a phone call
is deliberate but not due to any network loading.

Cell phones making standard phone calls have the audio bandwidth
limited to MATCH that of POTS systems, and it has nothing to do with
conservation of bandwidth.

There is ZERO incentive to limit audio bandwidth to that of POTS, but I'm not talking about bandwidth. I'm talking about quality of reproduction due to the voice compression. It's not called "audio compression" because it is tailored to voice. The highest rate of compressed voice I'm aware of is 32 kbps. While 56/64 kbps is uLaw/Alaw *is* audio compression and not voice compression.

There is also 24, 16 kbps compression and even lower rates which are not often used.

Why do they use this? Because they pay each other for all used bandwidth when you aren't in range of your carrier's towers (roaming) and you don't pay for voice. So they aren't paying for uncompressed voice if they don't have to. Besides, all this came about when you did pay for each minute and it's never been dismantled.

They use voice compression that is much less than 56 kbps
and sounds it very much.

No. Old shitty phones did dumb things like that.

It's not the phone, it's the protocol.

Then there are bit errors and drop outs.

Funny, I DL 2.5GB files at 1.5MB/s on a rgular basis. They are bit
for bit "perfect calls".

Yes, and you pay for every MB of data. What's your data cost?

Audio "phone calls" have little glitches if either phone has a VOX
or half duplex thing bouncing around. If both phones are newer there
is no such dropouts, unless you are deep inside a building.

Or pretty much anywhere in a car... remember the "mobile" part of mobile phone? Multipath is a bitch in the city and when more distant there's fading because of terrain. These are radios, not wires. Quality varies hugely and it sucks.

Like digital TV if our connection isn't great the bit errors show
up very quickly.

Digital TV here is all or none. The tuner either gives you a
perfect full picture and sound, or it blanks the entire thing and
tells you no signal or weak signal. That is not about bandwidth
though. That is about reflections and sgnal strength, etc.

You are talking about the digital "cliff" but are over emphasizing it. It's not a perfect 1/0 thing. There is a grey area with bits compromising the quality of the picture. I know, one place I lived was on the edge of that cliff and getting off the air TV was a bitch. Daily variations in signal would push the image to bit drops which were not at all like the gentle snow of analog TV.

Cells are fed from nearby. Digital TV can be from a transmitter 40
miles away.

That's irrelevant. Cell is all about frequency reuse, so they have to limit the power transmitted so they don't interfere with the tower a couple of cells away using the same frequencies.

I know you won't accept any of this, but that's they way cell
phones are over more than half the country.

Whatever. Maybe you have not been keeping up. because I do not
see the issues you speak of, even my Obama phone works well.

You cell voice quality is always perfect??? No, I don't see that. I guess you don't go on trips. But you did talk about using your phone "deep inside buildings" so you must have seen these problems at some point.

If you have a great
connection to your tower and it's not morning or evening rush hour
or some time between, you might get a good connection. Other
places and at the congested times voice quality sucks.

Sounds like your local cell system sucks. You in Timbuktu?

Yes, about 70 miles from Wash DC in central VA or 50 miles away in MD or 70 miles away in PA. Like many things, they try harder in the densely populated areas and much less so an hour away.

Bottom line is for the most part voice compression greatly impacts audio quality and cell phones are never any better than landlines. 64 kbps uLaw or Alaw is completely adequate for voice while music sucks because of the filtering above 3.4 kHz. Cell phones do the same filtering (what's the point when a landline is on the other end) and voice compression can make it hard to even make it sound like music depending on the bit rate in use.

I've given you the facts. Accept or not. Please don't keep ignoring them.

--

Rick C.

--++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

Ricky C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
news:bed1f85c-2740-4270-8f17-9fcb09718599@googlegroups.com:

Or pretty much anywhere in a car... remember the "mobile" part of
mobile phone? Multipath is a bitch in the city and when more
distant there's fading because of terrain. These are radios, not
wires. Quality varies hugely and it sucks.

You are on a shitty system. Where you at, Timbuktu?

 

Ricky C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in news:bed1f85c-2740-
4270-8f17-9fcb09718599@googlegroups.com:

There is ZERO incentive to limit audio bandwidth to that of POTS,

Not true. Think about back when they started it all. Today's data
rate on a stream from the net through the cell tower to your phone is
a today thing. That can be megabytes/s and is. That stream,
however, is a file write operation. Not full duplex low audio grade
phone conversation. Even your zoom or skype links are far better
audio than a standard audio phone call.

Audio is slow rate and low bandwidth requisite thing.

But still, even in the start, they had to clamp it to POTS rates
because MODEM, FAX, and such ARE also tied to that because 'baud
rate' is tied to it. Because they did not even have ISDN digital
switch houses in everywhere yet.

So if you look up the number, it is the same as POTS. You tell me
why, smartass.

It ain't 'compression', it is a modulation schema. Cell
communcation is packetized so you are mixing technologies. They
use QPSK modulation for spectral efficiency. But yes, some phone
brands and some older models compressed their audio stream and then
sent it, and delays and clicks and pops, etc. crop up and rop outs.
They have improved all that greatly. So yeah, they still compress,
but it is better than before. So maybe NOW they are doing better
audio band limits, but it is still stated as 300 to 3400 in the
specs.

I already wrote why I think they did it, but did it they did.

There is zero incentive for you to constantly attack me.

 

Ricky C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in news:bed1f85c-2740-
4270-8f17-9fcb09718599@googlegroups.com:


> Yes, and you pay for every MB of data.

Nope. Unlimited. Roaming? WTF is roaming? Ha!

> What's your data cost?

See above. Part of the plan. phone is internet hotspot for my
laptop and iPad no matter where I am too.

It is a modern world. I expect to have a video phone on my forearm
and to change my name to Dick Tracy soon.