In Europe: The great CFL rip-off.

[Phil Allison]

"Stupider than Anyone Else"

Phil Allison wrote:
"Trevor Bullshit Artist Wilson"

**Not quite. I recall reading that domestic lighting in the UK
accounts for around 20% of electricity consumption.
** That should be 20% of DOMESTIC electricity consumption !!

A tiny percentage of the total electricity consumption for the
country.

Plus it is all nearly used at night time, when it would often go to
waste otherwise.

How can electricity go to waste?


** Being used up in heating long power cables is one.

Most significant at times of high load - not overnight,

** Most of NSW's alternators are running hard all night.

Severe losses in using hydro power as a peak load system is another.

I.e. not at night.

** Totally wrong.

Power is ONLY fed to the hydro system late at night, when the other loads go
down.

Anyway, what are these severe losses?

** Mainly in the hundreds of miles of transmission lines in both
directions, plus all the pumps, hydro generators loss of water pumped by
evaporation etc

Having alternators spinning with little or no load is a third.

Fossil fuel is what gets wasted -

How is the fuel wasted?

** By being burned - you fucking IDIOT



..... Phil

 

[Trevor Wilson]

"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:00167947$0$13151$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...

Trevor Wilson wrote:
"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:0019abd3$0$24647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
Trevor Wilson wrote:

* Stop buggerising around by offering credits to polluters. They know
the lay of the land.
If by that you mean things like the coal fired power stations, the
problem is that if you start changing the rules affecting the financial
viability of long term infrastructure investments, then people will stop
investing, because the risk will be too high that you'll change the
rules again later.

**We have known for a long time that coal fired power stations are an
appalling way to generate electricity. There is no need to molly-coddle
them. There is no need to change the rules. A carbon tax should be
applied equally to all. That includes coal fired generators.

These things have a forty or fifty year life. While there have been
mutterings about global warming for quite a while, it only became
mainstream in the last decade or so.

**Bollocks. We have known that CO2 was causing global warming for more than
a century. By the early 1970s, the science was done and dusted. Only idiots
and those with vested interests see otherwise.

Most of the existing coal fired

power stations were built before anyone was suggesting undermining their
financial basis.

**We have had coal fired stations being built right now. I have zero
interest in protecting investors in coal fired power stations which have
been built any time in the last (say) 20 years.

We've all gained from the cheap electricity they've provided. It's a bit
late to pick up our ball and go home.


Consequently, if you want to make a major change to the rules, you have
to have some way of grandfathering the the existing investments, or
compensating their investors.

**Bollocks. We can all read. We all know the problems. If greedy
investors want to make a Dollar by polluting then let them suffer the
consequences. They are no different to the tobacco industry.

And the people who invest in new base-load gas powered generators, or even
more expensive solar/wind projects? Can they expect to have their
financial modelling undermined in another ten years, perhaps when the
Government finally realised that we have to go nuclear?

**It's not difficult. Apply an equation which applies to the amount of CO2
released, vs. the amount of power generated. Gas generators cause less CO2
problems. Wind/solar, even less. Same deal with nukes. Nukes have other
problems which need to be addressed.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[geoff]

Sylvia Else wrote:

geoff wrote:

I like the bit that suggets that the CFLs will last 2, 3, 4,5 years.
Haven't had one last more than 8 months yet. BAse gets hot, smells
very plasticy, and die.

Some Philips CLFs I have quote a 6000 hour life, and claim that's
equivalent to 6 incandescents. However, some, albeit "long life"
incandescents I have quote a 2500 hour life. Philips are presumably
comparing with a very cheap incandescent.

Pair of Philips so far - one dies after 2 days, the other 5 months.

6000 hour is about 4 years at 4 hours per day.

If your CFLs are only lasting 8 months at a similar level of usage,
then it's time to start keeping note, and getting refunds.

Any how many supermarket receipts for bulbs does one keep ?

Time to start?

Yep for sure in principal, but it never seems to actually happen in real
life.....


geoff

 

[geoff]

Phil Allison wrote:

"Trevor Fuckwit Wilson"


**We have known for a long time that coal fired power stations are an
appalling way to generate electricity.


** Only in the demented minds of insane greenies.

So that is the group TW's royal use of "We" refers to.

What an UTTER FUCKWIT !!




.... Phil

So Phuckwit Phil Arseholeman thinks coal-fired power stations are the dog's
bollocks ?


geoff

 

[Phil Allison]

"Trevor Wilson"

**Bollocks. We have known that CO2 was causing global warming for more
than a century.

** Now that has gotta be the BIGGEST LIE this rating

FUCKING NUT CASE has ever posted !!!!

And god knows the lunatic has posed a hell of a lot of DAMN LIES.

BTW:

Again TW's royal "We" refers only to lunatic greenies psychopaths.



..... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

"Stupider than Anyone Else Alive"

Some Philips CLFs I have quote a 6000 hour life, and claim that's
equivalent to 6 incandescents. However, some, albeit "long life"
incandescents I have quote a 2500 hour life. Philips are presumably
comparing with a very cheap incandescent.

** Totally FALSE argument.

So called " long life " incandescents have considerably lower light output
than regular ( ie 1000 hr) lamps of the same wattage. The filament runs
cooler and so longer.

Light output is what you must compare lamp types with.

You fucking IDIOT !!!



...... Phil

 

[terryc]

On Wed, 02 Sep 2009 13:26:32 +1000, Sylvia Else wrote:

you asinine autistic bitch.

I don't see the relevance of that.

I think he is trying to chat you up.

--

Great advances in Debian Linux; post a bug report and get spam in three
days.

 

[terryc]

On Wed, 02 Sep 2009 13:27:31 +1000, Trevor Wilson wrote:

A carbon tax should be
applied equally to all. That includes coal fired generators.

well, that would definitely achieve your suggestion of really increasing
the price of electricity.

**Bollocks. We can all read.

Could you please point me to a decision to carbon tax coal generators
that predates te investment life of existing coal fired power station?

If greedy
investors want to make a Dollar by polluting then let them suffer the
consequences. They are no different to the tobacco industry.

That was token taxing



--

Great advances in Debian Linux; post a bug report and get spam in three
days.

 

[Sylvia Else]

Phil Allison wrote:

"Stupider than Anyone Else"
Phil Allison wrote:
"Trevor Bullshit Artist Wilson"

**Not quite. I recall reading that domestic lighting in the UK
accounts for around 20% of electricity consumption.
** That should be 20% of DOMESTIC electricity consumption !!

A tiny percentage of the total electricity consumption for the
country.

Plus it is all nearly used at night time, when it would often go to
waste otherwise.

How can electricity go to waste?

** Being used up in heating long power cables is one.
Most significant at times of high load - not overnight,


** Most of NSW's alternators are running hard all night.

The baseload generators are, being as they're baseload generators. The
others are not. But the power generated by those generators is being
consumed, not wasted.

Severe losses in using hydro power as a peak load system is another.
I.e. not at night.


** Totally wrong.

Power is ONLY fed to the hydro system late at night, when the other loads go
down.

If you're saying that you have concerns about the use of pumped storage,
then you may have a point. But the bearing that has on your original
claim is beyond me. (Feel free to make some reference to autism here).

Anyway, what are these severe losses?


** Mainly in the hundreds of miles of transmission lines in both
directions, plus all the pumps, hydro generators loss of water pumped by
evaporation etc


Having alternators spinning with little or no load is a third.
Fossil fuel is what gets wasted -
How is the fuel wasted?


** By being burned - you fucking IDIOT

A generator consumes fuel as a function of load. They may not be very
efficient at low load, but they're only run that way as spinning
reserve, of which a certain amount is required. The fuel consumed is not
being wasted.

But that's almost beside the point. You said that electricity would be
wasted in a particular situation. You still have not explained how that
would come about.

Sylvia.

 

[Sylvia Else]

Trevor Wilson wrote:

"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:0019abd3$0$24647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
Trevor Wilson wrote:

* Stop buggerising around by offering credits to polluters. They know the
lay of the land.
If by that you mean things like the coal fired power stations, the problem
is that if you start changing the rules affecting the financial viability
of long term infrastructure investments, then people will stop investing,
because the risk will be too high that you'll change the rules again
later.

**We have known for a long time that coal fired power stations are an
appalling way to generate electricity. There is no need to molly-coddle
them. There is no need to change the rules.

A carbon tax is a change of the rules, and has a disproportionately high
impact on coal fired generators.

Sylvia.

 

[Sylvia Else]

Phil Allison wrote:

"Stupider than Anyone Else Alive"

Some Philips CLFs I have quote a 6000 hour life, and claim that's
equivalent to 6 incandescents. However, some, albeit "long life"
incandescents I have quote a 2500 hour life. Philips are presumably
comparing with a very cheap incandescent.


** Totally FALSE argument.

So called " long life " incandescents have considerably lower light output
than regular ( ie 1000 hr) lamps of the same wattage. The filament runs
cooler and so longer.

Light output is what you must compare lamp types with.

You fucking IDIOT !!!



..... Phil

Where did I say anything to suggest I wasn't comparing lamps of
equivalent light output? Why would you suppose that I wasn't?

Sylvia.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Stupider than Anyone Else"

You said that electricity would be wasted in a particular situation.

** No response is ever needed to what some AUTISTIC moron merely CLAIMS I
said.





...... Phil

 

[Trevor Wilson]

"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:7g695pF15e50U1@mid.individual.net...

"Trevor Wilson"

**Bollocks. We have known that CO2 was causing global warming for more
than a century.


** Now that has gotta be the BIGGEST LIE this rating

FUCKING NUT CASE has ever posted !!!!

**Incorrect:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svante_Arrhenius


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[Sylvia Else]

terryc wrote:

On Wed, 02 Sep 2009 13:26:32 +1000, Sylvia Else wrote:


you asinine autistic bitch.
I don't see the relevance of that.

I think he is trying to chat you up.

Could be - he's not insulting me as much as usual.

Sylvia.

 

[Trevor Wilson]

"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:00e50458$0$26336$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...

terryc wrote:
On Wed, 02 Sep 2009 13:26:32 +1000, Sylvia Else wrote:


you asinine autistic bitch.
I don't see the relevance of that.

I think he is trying to chat you up.


Could be - he's not insulting me as much as usual.

**That's because I'm here.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[David L. Jones]

Phil Allison wrote:

"Trevor Wilson"


**We have known for a long time that coal fired power stations are an
appalling way to generate electricity.


** Only in the demented minds of insane greenies.

I think "appalling" is a pretty apt description actually.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_effects_of_coal
You don't have to be any sort of greenie to see that coal mining ain't a
nice way to generate electricity.

Dave.

--
================================================
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:
http://www.eevblog.com

 

[Phil Allison]

"Trevor Wilson is an Insane LIAR "


" **Bollocks. We have known that CO2 was causing global warming for more
than a century. "


** Now that has gotta be the BIGGEST LIE this rating

FUCKING NUT CASE has ever posted !!!!

**Incorrect:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svante_Arrhenius

** Only the BIGGEST LIARS post stupid wiki links instead of making their
case.

Naturally, the link supplied makes no mention of anything like TW's insane
assertion.

BTW:

TW is an incorrigible liar - I have proved that on this NG and aus.hi-fi at
least 1000 times.

TW is grossly autistic, massively narcissistic, without normal insight of
any kind and hence out of touch with reality for the whole of his life.

TW is just another know nothing, useless usenet TROLL.




..... Phil

 

[terryc]

On Wed, 02 Sep 2009 14:33:36 +1000, Trevor Wilson wrote:

"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:7g695pF15e50U1@mid.individual.net...

"Trevor Wilson"

**Bollocks. We have known that CO2 was causing global warming for more
than a century.

** Now that has gotta be the BIGGEST LIE this rating

**Incorrect:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svante_Arrhenius

Known =/= proposed theory which is what he did.






--

Great advances in Debian Linux; post a bug report and get spam in three
days.








--

Great advances in Debian Linux; post a bug report and get spam in three
days.

 

[Phil Allison]

"David L. Jones"
Phil Allison wrote:

"Trevor Wilson"


**We have known for a long time that coal fired power stations are an
appalling way to generate electricity.


** Only in the demented minds of insane greenies.

So that is the group TW's royal use of "We" refers to.

What an UTTER FUCKWIT !!

I think "appalling" is a pretty apt description actually.

** There is nothing " appalling " in the way ELECTRICITY is generated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_effects_of_coal

** Nothing to do what TW wrote above at all.

You don't have to be any sort of greenie to see that coal mining ain't a
nice way to generate electricity.

** There is a huge difference between "ain't nice " and the emotional crap
TW wrote above.

The "nice" ways ( ie hydro, wind etc) are simply not economically viable or
even possible for most of the world.

Wherever hydro power can be generated - it has been as in Tasmania and NZ.

They only viable alternative to coal in most places is nuclear.

Now that IS an APPALLING way to go.



...... Phil

 

[Trevor Wilson]

"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:7g6ckrF2niburU1@mid.individual.net...

"David L. Jones"
Phil Allison wrote:
"Trevor Wilson"


**We have known for a long time that coal fired power stations are an
appalling way to generate electricity.


** Only in the demented minds of insane greenies.

So that is the group TW's royal use of "We" refers to.

What an UTTER FUCKWIT !!


I think "appalling" is a pretty apt description actually.


** There is nothing " appalling " in the way ELECTRICITY is generated.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_effects_of_coal


** Nothing to do what TW wrote above at all.

You don't have to be any sort of greenie to see that coal mining ain't a
nice way to generate electricity.


** There is a huge difference between "ain't nice " and the emotional crap
TW wrote above.

The "nice" ways ( ie hydro, wind etc) are simply not economically viable
or even possible for most of the world.

**Bollocks. You left out (like most people do) the most viable method
available. One which is already in use in various nations and has been shown
to be safe, economical and well tested. That method is geo-thermal.
Australia has enough geo-thermal capacity to outlast every other power
source, except coal by several orders of magnitude. That includes nukes.

Wherever hydro power can be generated - it has been as in Tasmania and
NZ.

They only viable alternative to coal in most places is nuclear.

Now that IS an APPALLING way to go.

**Short lived and stupid. Sylvia seems to like it though.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au