How much current to kill an insect?...

[Ed Lee]

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 3:04:51 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Sat, 07 May 2022 22:47:06 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 2:35:26 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:56:42 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 11:45:21 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:01:35 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 10:09:46 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 06 May 2022 23:02:40 +0100, Commander Kinsey <C...@nospam.com> wrote:

On Fri, 06 May 2022 20:02:11 +0100, John Walliker <jrwal...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, 6 May 2022 at 19:44:05 UTC+1, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 06 May 2022 17:40:45 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
C...@nospam.com> wrote:

On Fri, 06 May 2022 17:06:28 +0100, <jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com> wrote:

On Fri, 06 May 2022 13:44:03 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
C...@nospam.com> wrote:

I\'m talking about the bug zappers. I have a mains one which makes 2000V. I have a USB one which makes 1700V. I can and have measured those. The mains one is very effective, I see it frying wasps. I haven\'t had the opportunity to see the USB one in action yet and I\'m wondering if it will do anything useful. How much current is required to kill the insect? I know 80mA+ is needed to kill a human through the heart, but I get the feeling with insects the death requires evaporation, not just stopping the heart. I could connect a milliammeter across the USB one\'s output, but I don\'t want to break the meter if there\'s a strong pulse to start with. The USB one states 1A 5V input, so the output couldn\'t continuously exceed only 3mA, unless it drops to 100V and gives out 50mA, and the output drops from 1700V to 0V immediately I turn it off (with an antique electrostatic voltmeter connected which may draw a bit).

It\'s energy, from a capacitor, not current that kills bugs.

The cap charging current is likely microamps.

Since when I unplug the USB cord, the voltage drops to 0 instantly, I doubt there\'s a cap in it.
It wouldn\'t be hard to measure. Or google.

The mains one is just a 240V to 2000V transformer directly connected to the rails.
That sounds lethal to bugs and to humans. And a fire hazard.

One outfit that I work with considers 9 joules the be the human
threshold of death.
Strange way to measure it. If you took 9 joules over a period of 1 hour, it wouldn\'t kill you. Surely current is a better measure? 80mA stops the heart I believe, which is why breakers trip at 30 or 50.

Circuit breakers trip at 30A or 50A, right?
mA, I was obviously talking about the earth leakage variety. The 30A/50A ones are overload breakers to stop fires when you melt wires.

OK, GFCI.
Yeah if you want to call it that weird name. Let\'s change earth to ground, leakage to fault, and breaker to interrupter. It\'s sure to sell more to gullible folk.

Everybody know it by that name here.
Yeah well America isn\'t the sharpest knife in the drawer. You call live hot!
So, is 600W (200V 3A) battery safe? I got shocked a few times, especially when my fingers are wet. It wasn\'t bad enough to kill me, or i would not be posting this.
That should be able to kill you, but it has to pass through your heart, and you need a weak heart.

I try to be careful to touch it with only one hand.
Then you get a warm hand, no big deal. I\'ve done that with 240V mains (no not the pansy 120V USA shit).
What battery is 200V and 3A?!

Half of a 400V battery, fused to 3A. Slow charging into 400V 66Ah.
What is this used for? I\'ve never heard of such high voltage batteries..

It\'s custom build.
For what purpose?

Right size and weight to carry, load and unload. 3\"x5\"x28\", 10 pounds, 600Wh each.

I plan to have banks of 200V batteries attached to either side of the car door. In addition to better weight distribution, nobody should touch both (400V) at the same time. Furthermore, i can eject the doors in case of fire.

How about 200V 10A, 20A or 30A?
To stop a car theif, use kV.

To drive the car too. 200V is much safer to carry it around.
Use an inverter.

It\'s more efficient that way. The batteries are charged off the vehicle, and load/unload in parallel with the main, without the need to charge/discharge the energy from the main. It would also keep the main batteries cooler, which is a real problem with repeated fast charging.
Ah, an electric car? But could someone not steal the batteries from there?

Only if they know what\'s inside. The doors are internally double locked. The windows are unbreakable lexan. The back (with the battery) is physically isolated from the front. I\'ll probably change the left rear window to metal with loading tubes.

There were several break-in attempts, but i have not lose much stuffs except for the first time.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sat, 07 May 2022 23:29:58 +0100, Ed Lee <edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 3:04:51 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 07 May 2022 22:47:06 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 2:35:26 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:56:42 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 11:45:21 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:01:35 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:

I plan to have banks of 200V batteries attached to either side of the car door. In addition to better weight distribution, nobody should touch both (400V) at the same time. Furthermore, i can eject the doors in case of fire.

How about 200V 10A, 20A or 30A?
To stop a car theif, use kV.

To drive the car too. 200V is much safer to carry it around.
Use an inverter.

It\'s more efficient that way. The batteries are charged off the vehicle, and load/unload in parallel with the main, without the need to charge/discharge the energy from the main. It would also keep the main batteries cooler, which is a real problem with repeated fast charging.
Ah, an electric car? But could someone not steal the batteries from there?

Only if they know what\'s inside. The doors are internally double locked. The windows are unbreakable lexan. The back (with the battery) is physically isolated from the front. I\'ll probably change the left rear window to metal with loading tubes.

There were several break-in attempts, but i have not lose much stuffs except for the first time.

Is this a car or a tank?

 

[Ed Lee]

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 4:24:56 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Sat, 07 May 2022 23:29:58 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 3:04:51 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 07 May 2022 22:47:06 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 2:35:26 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:56:42 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 11:45:21 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:01:35 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:

I plan to have banks of 200V batteries attached to either side of the car door. In addition to better weight distribution, nobody should touch both (400V) at the same time. Furthermore, i can eject the doors in case of fire.

How about 200V 10A, 20A or 30A?
To stop a car theif, use kV.

To drive the car too. 200V is much safer to carry it around.
Use an inverter.

It\'s more efficient that way. The batteries are charged off the vehicle, and load/unload in parallel with the main, without the need to charge/discharge the energy from the main. It would also keep the main batteries cooler, which is a real problem with repeated fast charging.
Ah, an electric car? But could someone not steal the batteries from there?

Only if they know what\'s inside. The doors are internally double locked.. The windows are unbreakable lexan. The back (with the battery) is physically isolated from the front. I\'ll probably change the left rear window to metal with loading tubes.

There were several break-in attempts, but i have not lose much stuffs except for the first time.
Is this a car or a tank?

Urban tank that looks like a car.

 

[bitrex]

On 5/7/2022 12:42 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:

The mains one is just a 240V to 2000V transformer directly connected
to the rails.

That sounds lethal to bugs and to humans. And a fire hazard.

They are potentially. But the safety interlocks are quite good to stop
humans whilst still allowing flies and insects free access.

A stately home come country house hotel was seriously damaged by an
accumulation of dead flies in such a device a couple of years back.

You can smell burning insect it it gets a particularly big moth. UV
fluoro light trap and HT bars - looks to me like a neon driver
transformer soa  couple of mA at a fairly high voltage.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-29702125

We have them in our VH. Emptying the dead fly trays was moved up the
important routine checks list after that fire.

I empty mine twice a year, whether it needs it or not.

BTW Dr. Frankenstein most states often have animal cruelty laws that if
interpreted from an \"originalist\" POV apply even to insects.

That is to say you can vaporize an insect or let it go but if you hook
USB probes up to them while administering shocks on the regular someone
may at some point want to see a license for that, lol

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sun, 08 May 2022 07:02:49 +0100, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 5/7/2022 12:42 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:

The mains one is just a 240V to 2000V transformer directly connected
to the rails.

That sounds lethal to bugs and to humans. And a fire hazard.

They are potentially. But the safety interlocks are quite good to stop
humans whilst still allowing flies and insects free access.

A stately home come country house hotel was seriously damaged by an
accumulation of dead flies in such a device a couple of years back.

You can smell burning insect it it gets a particularly big moth. UV
fluoro light trap and HT bars - looks to me like a neon driver
transformer soa couple of mA at a fairly high voltage.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-29702125

We have them in our VH. Emptying the dead fly trays was moved up the
important routine checks list after that fire.

I empty mine twice a year, whether it needs it or not.

BTW Dr. Frankenstein most states often have animal cruelty laws that if
interpreted from an \"originalist\" POV apply even to insects.

That is to say you can vaporize an insect or let it go but if you hook
USB probes up to them while administering shocks on the regular someone
may at some point want to see a license for that, lol

Same bullshit here in the UK. It\'s legal to kill mice and rats with poison that dehydrates them slowly and painfully over 3 days. But do the same by using a human trap and not letting them go, which has the same effect, gets you a visit from a moany animal cruelty person.

In Australia on an episode of reality TV, they were feeding kangeroo anus to the contestants, but when one dared to kill a rat in a non-humane way, that was somehow wrong? They can\'t tell the difference in intelligence between a rat (disease carrying vermin) and a kangeroo (national emblem).

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sun, 08 May 2022 01:08:19 +0100, Ed Lee <edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 4:24:56 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 07 May 2022 23:29:58 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 3:04:51 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 07 May 2022 22:47:06 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 2:35:26 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:56:42 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 11:45:21 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:01:35 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:

I plan to have banks of 200V batteries attached to either side of the car door. In addition to better weight distribution, nobody should touch both (400V) at the same time. Furthermore, i can eject the doors in case of fire.

How about 200V 10A, 20A or 30A?
To stop a car theif, use kV.

To drive the car too. 200V is much safer to carry it around.
Use an inverter.

It\'s more efficient that way. The batteries are charged off the vehicle, and load/unload in parallel with the main, without the need to charge/discharge the energy from the main. It would also keep the main batteries cooler, which is a real problem with repeated fast charging.
Ah, an electric car? But could someone not steal the batteries from there?

Only if they know what\'s inside. The doors are internally double locked. The windows are unbreakable lexan. The back (with the battery) is physically isolated from the front. I\'ll probably change the left rear window to metal with loading tubes.

There were several break-in attempts, but i have not lose much stuffs except for the first time.
Is this a car or a tank?

Urban tank that looks like a car.

Ah, so what yanks call a truck. Just a car. A truck weighs 50 tonnes.

 

[Ed Lee]

On Sunday, May 8, 2022 at 3:56:23 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Sun, 08 May 2022 01:08:19 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 4:24:56 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 07 May 2022 23:29:58 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 3:04:51 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 07 May 2022 22:47:06 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 2:35:26 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:56:42 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 11:45:21 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:01:35 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:

I plan to have banks of 200V batteries attached to either side of the car door. In addition to better weight distribution, nobody should touch both (400V) at the same time. Furthermore, i can eject the doors in case of fire.

How about 200V 10A, 20A or 30A?
To stop a car theif, use kV.

To drive the car too. 200V is much safer to carry it around.
Use an inverter.

It\'s more efficient that way. The batteries are charged off the vehicle, and load/unload in parallel with the main, without the need to charge/discharge the energy from the main. It would also keep the main batteries cooler, which is a real problem with repeated fast charging.
Ah, an electric car? But could someone not steal the batteries from there?

Only if they know what\'s inside. The doors are internally double locked. The windows are unbreakable lexan. The back (with the battery) is physically isolated from the front. I\'ll probably change the left rear window to metal with loading tubes.

There were several break-in attempts, but i have not lose much stuffs except for the first time.
Is this a car or a tank?

Urban tank that looks like a car.
Ah, so what yanks call a truck. Just a car. A truck weighs 50 tonnes.

Yes, weight is always a concern. Currently, i am using a 3\"x1/2\"x28\" center wood frame. Two 2\"x1/8\"x24\" acrylic plastic for mounting the terminal sharpnels. Two pieces back to back for around 3 pounds of weight. 48x 18650s add around 6 pounds. Perhaps aluminium outer shell casting for 3 to 4 pounds. It\'s roughly half the size and shape of a Javelin.

I haven\'t got to the loading unit yet, but i envision a 2 pins plug/socket with a center screw plunger/lock to retrieve/expunge the shell. So, the shell cannot be removed without the right access code. Also, the loading window will be aluminium, since i don\'t need to see through the window behind the driver seat.

Just received the security torx bit for the OBC (On Board Charger) where i can open it up and tap into the output capacitor. Also ordered some NTC surge protectors to protect it when the main power relay turns on and off. Eventually, it might be better to just tie into the main behind the relay, but i would have to remove and open up the main battery. The OBC is inside the passenger cabin where the back seats were.