How much current to kill an insect?...

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sat, 07 May 2022 01:29:19 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

On Sat, 07 May 2022 00:58:20 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Sat, 07 May 2022 00:56:42 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

On Fri, 6 May 2022 16:43:06 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

Bacteria-laden fragments over a wide area? From a mosquito whose total
mass is a few milligrams?

Sure must be peaceful where you live, if that\'s the biggest worry.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Speak for yourself. Where I grew up, the mosquitoes were as big as
chickens.

I live in Scotland. If you don\'t, you don\'t know what a mosquito is.

We hunted them with shotguns.

https://youtu.be/BHBbJAIcnBI

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sat, 07 May 2022 01:48:53 +0100, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 06 May 2022 20:02:11 +0100, John Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com
wrote:

On Friday, 6 May 2022 at 19:44:05 UTC+1, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 06 May 2022 17:40:45 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
C...@nospam.com> wrote:

On Fri, 06 May 2022 17:06:28 +0100,
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com> wrote:

On Fri, 06 May 2022 13:44:03 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
C...@nospam.com> wrote:

I\'m talking about the bug zappers. I have a mains one which makes
2000V. I have a USB one which makes 1700V. I can and have measured
those. The mains one is very effective, I see it frying wasps. I
haven\'t had the opportunity to see the USB one in action yet and I\'m
wondering if it will do anything useful. How much current is required
to kill the insect? I know 80mA+ is needed to kill a human through
the heart, but I get the feeling with insects the death requires
evaporation, not just stopping the heart. I could connect a
milliammeter across the USB one\'s output, but I don\'t want to break
the meter if there\'s a strong pulse to start with. The USB one states
1A 5V input, so the output couldn\'t continuously exceed only 3mA,
unless it drops to 100V and gives out 50mA, and the output drops from
1700V to 0V immediately I turn it off (with an antique electrostatic
voltmeter connected which may draw a bit).

It\'s energy, from a capacitor, not current that kills bugs.

The cap charging current is likely microamps.

Since when I unplug the USB cord, the voltage drops to 0 instantly,
I doubt there\'s a cap in it.
It wouldn\'t be hard to measure. Or google.

The mains one is just a 240V to 2000V transformer directly connected
to the rails.
That sounds lethal to bugs and to humans. And a fire hazard.

One outfit that I work with considers 9 joules the be the human
threshold of death. I\'d guess that 1 joule would take out a mosquito.

These devices used to make a loud noise as they discharged a capacitor
into the insect. This is no longer considered a good idea because if the
insect explodes too violently the bacteria-laden fragments are dispersed
over a wide area. It is much better just to cook them without
fragmentation.
I did once come across a standard for such devices - I will see if I
can find it.
John

That would be why the decent one I have fries them gently, while the
cheap Chinese USB one uses a capacitor.

Mine give a nice satisfying 120-hertz-plus-harmonics bzzzaaappp.

Girly high frequency. We have the more masculine 100 Hz.

\"Die, mozzie scum!\"

They also have mushroom oil (octenol) pads on the bottom.

What? The mosquitoes or the zapper?

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sat, 07 May 2022 03:46:05 +0100, <jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com> wrote:

On Fri, 06 May 2022 23:54:15 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Fri, 06 May 2022 23:07:32 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:16:10 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com
wrote:

On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 11:44:05 AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 06 May 2022 17:40:45 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
C...@nospam.com> wrote:

[about a bug zapper]

The mains one is just a 240V to 2000V transformer directly connected to the rails.

That sounds lethal to bugs and to humans. And a fire hazard.

The \'transformer\' may be a potted circuit, with current limits like
in a neon transformer. It won\'t be tightly line-coupled like an ideal
power transformer.

Any 60 Hz

50, I live in the modern world.

transformer that makes kilovolts is going to be huge. Loose
coupling and potting make them huger.

Only huge if high power. Mine is about 1.5 inches x 1.5 inches x 1.5 inches.

The old neon sign transformers were huge; the modern one are high
frequency oscillators. The old ones looked nicer for some reason.

The light output or the circuit looked nicer?

The light in the neon tubes looked better with 60 Hz HV AC, sharper.
The RF ones look fake and fuzzy.

I hate flicker. In the days of CRTs, I always chose 90Hz ones.

When I was a kid I had an infinite supply of used neon sign
transformers. Fun. The double-ended 18 KV was my favorite, but it must
have weighed 20 pounds.

How many friends did you torture with it?

Darn, I clean forgot to do that.

How absurd.

The old oil-filled car ignition transformers were cool too, driven
from an oil cap through a thyratron. 3\" sparks.

Could you kill someone with those? I\'ve been told that contrary to popular belief, the \"modern\" ones from the 90s (pre electronic ignition) didn\'t have enough current to kill you. I heard of one mechanic grabbing one, he couldn\'t let go but he was unharmed.

A car spark is roughly 50 millijoules per shot. Painful but not
deadly.

What about if you grabbed it for some time?

What if an evil friend revved the engine up?

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sat, 07 May 2022 08:57:01 +0100, Martin Brown <\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

On 06/05/2022 19:43, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 06 May 2022 17:40:45 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Fri, 06 May 2022 17:06:28 +0100, <jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com> wrote:

On Fri, 06 May 2022 13:44:03 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

I\'m talking about the bug zappers. I have a mains one which makes 2000V. I have a USB one which makes 1700V. I can and have measured those. The mains one is very effective, I see it frying wasps. I haven\'t had the opportunity to see the USB one in action yet and I\'m wondering if it will do anything useful. How much current is required to kill the insect? I know 80mA+ is needed to kill a human through the heart, but I get the feeling with insects the death requires evaporation, not just stopping the heart. I could connect a milliammeter across the USB one\'s output, but I don\'t want to break the meter if there\'s a strong pulse to start with. The USB one states 1A 5V input, so the output couldn\'t continuously exceed only 3mA, unless it drops to 100V and gives out 50mA, and the output drops from 1700V to 0V immediately I turn it off (with an antique electrostatic voltmeter connected which may draw a bit).

It\'s energy, from a capacitor, not current that kills bugs.

The cap charging current is likely microamps.

Since when I unplug the USB cord, the voltage drops to 0 instantly, I doubt there\'s a cap in it.

It wouldn\'t be hard to measure. Or google.


The mains one is just a 240V to 2000V transformer directly connected to the rails.

That sounds lethal to bugs and to humans. And a fire hazard.

They are potentially. But the safety interlocks are quite good to stop
humans whilst still allowing flies and insects free access.

A stately home come country house hotel was seriously damaged by an
accumulation of dead flies in such a device a couple of years back.

You can smell burning insect it it gets a particularly big moth. UV
fluoro light trap and HT bars - looks to me like a neon driver
transformer soa couple of mA at a fairly high voltage.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-29702125

We have them in our VH. Emptying the dead fly trays was moved up the
important routine checks list after that fire.

I empty mine twice a year, whether it needs it or not.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sat, 07 May 2022 10:36:21 +0100, Mike Coon <gravity@mjcoon.plus.com> wrote:

In article <op.1lrt7ibcmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>, CK1@nospam.com says...

I live in Scotland. If you don\'t, you don\'t know what a mosquito is.

I\'m waiting for a Scot to invent a small dirigible modelled on a basking
shark crossed with a Dyson vacuum. It would patrol up and down hoovering
up the midges into a net...

ROFL! Actually there have been many attempts to cull mosquitoes, or midges, can\'t remember which, in Scotland. Can\'t find a link since those sort of searches are flooded out with how to stop them getting you on holiday.

I have the answer. Lifesystems Expedition 100+ - a spray you put on your bare flesh. Nothing will land on you. Even works on horses - I recommended it to a horser around here and she tried it! Keeps the flies off them.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sat, 07 May 2022 12:21:46 +0100, John S <Sophi.2@invalid.org> wrote:

On 5/6/2022 11:06 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Fri, 06 May 2022 13:44:03 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

I\'m talking about the bug zappers. I have a mains one which makes 2000V. I have a USB one which makes 1700V. I can and have measured those. The mains one is very effective, I see it frying wasps. I haven\'t had the opportunity to see the USB one in action yet and I\'m wondering if it will do anything useful. How much current is required to kill the insect? I know 80mA+ is needed to kill a human through the heart, but I get the feeling with insects the death requires evaporation, not just stopping the heart. I could connect a milliammeter across the USB one\'s output, but I don\'t want to break the meter if there\'s a strong pulse to start with. The USB one states 1A 5V input, so the output couldn\'t continuously exceed only 3mA, unless it drops to 100V and gives out 50mA, and the output drops from 1700V to 0V immediately I turn it off (with an antique electrostatic voltmeter connected which may draw a bit).

It\'s energy, from a capacitor, not current that kills bugs.

The cap charging current is likely microamps.


Sure. Try killing a spider with 1J at 1V.

Where did 1V come from?

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sat, 07 May 2022 12:23:16 +0100, John S <Sophi.2@invalid.org> wrote:

On 5/6/2022 1:43 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 06 May 2022 17:40:45 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Fri, 06 May 2022 17:06:28 +0100, <jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com> wrote:

On Fri, 06 May 2022 13:44:03 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

I\'m talking about the bug zappers. I have a mains one which makes 2000V. I have a USB one which makes 1700V. I can and have measured those. The mains one is very effective, I see it frying wasps. I haven\'t had the opportunity to see the USB one in action yet and I\'m wondering if it will do anything useful. How much current is required to kill the insect? I know 80mA+ is needed to kill a human through the heart, but I get the feeling with insects the death requires evaporation, not just stopping the heart. I could connect a milliammeter across the USB one\'s output, but I don\'t want to break the meter if there\'s a strong pulse to start with. The USB one states 1A 5V input, so the output couldn\'t continuously exceed only 3mA, unless it drops to 100V and gives out 50mA, and the output drops from 1700V to 0V immediately I turn it off (with an antique electrostatic voltmeter connected which may draw a bit).

It\'s energy, from a capacitor, not current that kills bugs.

The cap charging current is likely microamps.

Since when I unplug the USB cord, the voltage drops to 0 instantly, I doubt there\'s a cap in it.

It wouldn\'t be hard to measure. Or google.


The mains one is just a 240V to 2000V transformer directly connected to the rails.

That sounds lethal to bugs and to humans. And a fire hazard.

One outfit that I work with considers 9 joules the be the human
threshold of death. I\'d guess that 1 joule would take out a mosquito.


...if the voltage is high enough.

It\'s 1700, I measured it.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sat, 07 May 2022 15:32:27 +0100, <jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com> wrote:

On Sat, 7 May 2022 10:41:01 +0100, Mike Coon <gravity@mjcoon.plus.com
wrote:

In article <2TodK.6666$t72a.1025@fx10.iad>, g_wolf@howl.com says...

On 5/6/2022 10:31 AM, Mike Coon wrote:
In article <op.1lqyzpe3mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>, CK1@nospam.com says...
requires evaporation, not just stopping the heart. I could connect a milliammeter across the USB one\'s output, but I don\'t want to break the meter if there\'s a strong pulse to start with. The USB one states 1A 5V input, so the output couldn\'t continuously exceed only 3mA, unless it drops to 100V and gives out 50mA, and the output drops from 1700V to 0V immediately I turn it off (with an antique electrostatic voltmeter connected which may draw a bit).

Is your electrostatic voltmeter leaky? It should only \"draw\" a charge,
not a current.

BTW I don\'t want my wasps fried, because then the spider to which I
offer them is not interested. They have to wake up and flutter, then she
swoops and bites...

Cool ! What kinda spider you got.

It\'s called a noble false widow
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steatoda_nobilis). Not native to the UK
but spreading. When they have egg sacs that hatch into armies of
spiderlings that is when they get hoovered up...

I wonder what this is:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/e7q18eo1al8n3x4/Take-out.jpg?raw=1

We have almost no insects inside. The few spiders eat all the rest.

I kill the insects to starve the spiders.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Fri, 06 May 2022 23:02:40 +0100, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Fri, 06 May 2022 20:02:11 +0100, John Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, 6 May 2022 at 19:44:05 UTC+1, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 06 May 2022 17:40:45 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
C...@nospam.com> wrote:

On Fri, 06 May 2022 17:06:28 +0100, <jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com> wrote:

On Fri, 06 May 2022 13:44:03 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
C...@nospam.com> wrote:

I\'m talking about the bug zappers. I have a mains one which makes 2000V. I have a USB one which makes 1700V. I can and have measured those. The mains one is very effective, I see it frying wasps. I haven\'t had the opportunity to see the USB one in action yet and I\'m wondering if it will do anything useful. How much current is required to kill the insect? I know 80mA+ is needed to kill a human through the heart, but I get the feeling with insects the death requires evaporation, not just stopping the heart. I could connect a milliammeter across the USB one\'s output, but I don\'t want to break the meter if there\'s a strong pulse to start with. The USB one states 1A 5V input, so the output couldn\'t continuously exceed only 3mA, unless it drops to 100V and gives out 50mA, and the output drops from 1700V to 0V immediately I turn it off (with an antique electrostatic voltmeter connected which may draw a bit).

It\'s energy, from a capacitor, not current that kills bugs.

The cap charging current is likely microamps.

Since when I unplug the USB cord, the voltage drops to 0 instantly, I doubt there\'s a cap in it.
It wouldn\'t be hard to measure. Or google.

The mains one is just a 240V to 2000V transformer directly connected to the rails.
That sounds lethal to bugs and to humans. And a fire hazard.

One outfit that I work with considers 9 joules the be the human
threshold of death.

Strange way to measure it. If you took 9 joules over a period of 1 hour, it wouldn\'t kill you. Surely current is a better measure? 80mA stops the heart I believe, which is why breakers trip at 30 or 50.

 

[Ed Lee]

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 10:09:46 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Fri, 06 May 2022 23:02:40 +0100, Commander Kinsey <C...@nospam.com> wrote:

On Fri, 06 May 2022 20:02:11 +0100, John Walliker <jrwal...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, 6 May 2022 at 19:44:05 UTC+1, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 06 May 2022 17:40:45 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
C...@nospam.com> wrote:

On Fri, 06 May 2022 17:06:28 +0100, <jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com> wrote:

On Fri, 06 May 2022 13:44:03 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
C...@nospam.com> wrote:

I\'m talking about the bug zappers. I have a mains one which makes 2000V. I have a USB one which makes 1700V. I can and have measured those. The mains one is very effective, I see it frying wasps. I haven\'t had the opportunity to see the USB one in action yet and I\'m wondering if it will do anything useful. How much current is required to kill the insect? I know 80mA+ is needed to kill a human through the heart, but I get the feeling with insects the death requires evaporation, not just stopping the heart. I could connect a milliammeter across the USB one\'s output, but I don\'t want to break the meter if there\'s a strong pulse to start with. The USB one states 1A 5V input, so the output couldn\'t continuously exceed only 3mA, unless it drops to 100V and gives out 50mA, and the output drops from 1700V to 0V immediately I turn it off (with an antique electrostatic voltmeter connected which may draw a bit).

It\'s energy, from a capacitor, not current that kills bugs.

The cap charging current is likely microamps.

Since when I unplug the USB cord, the voltage drops to 0 instantly, I doubt there\'s a cap in it.
It wouldn\'t be hard to measure. Or google.

The mains one is just a 240V to 2000V transformer directly connected to the rails.
That sounds lethal to bugs and to humans. And a fire hazard.

One outfit that I work with considers 9 joules the be the human
threshold of death.
Strange way to measure it. If you took 9 joules over a period of 1 hour, it wouldn\'t kill you. Surely current is a better measure? 80mA stops the heart I believe, which is why breakers trip at 30 or 50.

Circuit breakers trip at 30A or 50A, right?

So, is 600W (200V 3A) battery safe? I got shocked a few times, especially when my fingers are wet. It wasn\'t bad enough to kill me, or i would not be posting this.

I plan to have banks of 200V batteries attached to either side of the car door. In addition to better weight distribution, nobody should touch both (400V) at the same time. Furthermore, i can eject the doors in case of fire..

How about 200V 10A, 20A or 30A?

 

[Mike Coon]

In article <ck0d7hd163ukc16cqrasdq0jnl5sqnipvd@4ax.com>,
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com says...

I wonder what this is:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/e7q18eo1al8n3x4/Take-out.jpg?raw=1

We have almost no insects inside. The few spiders eat all the rest.

Certainly a spider! The shape of many. Not that I\'m an expert in any
case...

 

[Mike Coon]

In article <op.1ls4v6yxmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>, CK1@nospam.com says...

On Sat, 07 May 2022 10:36:21 +0100, Mike Coon <gravity@mjcoon.plus.com> wrote:

In article <op.1lrt7ibcmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>, CK1@nospam.com says...

I live in Scotland. If you don\'t, you don\'t know what a mosquito is.

I\'m waiting for a Scot to invent a small dirigible modelled on a basking
shark crossed with a Dyson vacuum. It would patrol up and down hoovering
up the midges into a net...

ROFL! Actually there have been many attempts to cull mosquitoes, or midges, can\'t remember which, in Scotland. Can\'t find a link since those sort of searches are flooded out with how to stop them getting you on holiday.

I have the answer. Lifesystems Expedition 100+ - a spray you put on your bare flesh. Nothing will land on you. Even works on horses - I recommended it to a horser around here and she tried it! Keeps the flies off them.

Oh, I thought for a moment you were referring to one of those winged
horses...

 

[Mike Coon]

In article <op.1ls4y8e1mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>, CK1@nospam.com says...

On Sat, 07 May 2022 15:32:27 +0100, <jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com> wrote:

On Sat, 7 May 2022 10:41:01 +0100, Mike Coon <gravity@mjcoon.plus.com
wrote:

In article <2TodK.6666$t72a.1025@fx10.iad>, g_wolf@howl.com says...

On 5/6/2022 10:31 AM, Mike Coon wrote:
In article <op.1lqyzpe3mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>, CK1@nospam.com says...
requires evaporation, not just stopping the heart. I could connect a milliammeter across the USB one\'s output, but I don\'t want to break the meter if there\'s a strong pulse to start with. The USB one states 1A 5V input, so the output couldn\'t continuously exceed only 3mA, unless it drops to 100V and gives out 50mA, and the output drops from 1700V to 0V immediately I turn it off (with an antique electrostatic voltmeter connected which may draw a bit).

Is your electrostatic voltmeter leaky? It should only \"draw\" a charge,
not a current.

BTW I don\'t want my wasps fried, because then the spider to which I
offer them is not interested. They have to wake up and flutter, then she
swoops and bites...

Cool ! What kinda spider you got.

It\'s called a noble false widow
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steatoda_nobilis). Not native to the UK
but spreading. When they have egg sacs that hatch into armies of
spiderlings that is when they get hoovered up...

I wonder what this is:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/e7q18eo1al8n3x4/Take-out.jpg?raw=1

We have almost no insects inside. The few spiders eat all the rest.

I kill the insects to starve the spiders.

Did you read the wikipedia article about \"my\" spider and their ability
to bite people? Better to keep them well fed, methinks...

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:01:35 +0100, Ed Lee <edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 10:09:46 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 06 May 2022 23:02:40 +0100, Commander Kinsey <C...@nospam.com> wrote:

On Fri, 06 May 2022 20:02:11 +0100, John Walliker <jrwal...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, 6 May 2022 at 19:44:05 UTC+1, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 06 May 2022 17:40:45 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
C...@nospam.com> wrote:

On Fri, 06 May 2022 17:06:28 +0100, <jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com> wrote:

On Fri, 06 May 2022 13:44:03 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
C...@nospam.com> wrote:

I\'m talking about the bug zappers. I have a mains one which makes 2000V. I have a USB one which makes 1700V. I can and have measured those. The mains one is very effective, I see it frying wasps. I haven\'t had the opportunity to see the USB one in action yet and I\'m wondering if it will do anything useful. How much current is required to kill the insect? I know 80mA+ is needed to kill a human through the heart, but I get the feeling with insects the death requires evaporation, not just stopping the heart. I could connect a milliammeter across the USB one\'s output, but I don\'t want to break the meter if there\'s a strong pulse to start with. The USB one states 1A 5V input, so the output couldn\'t continuously exceed only 3mA, unless it drops to 100V and gives out 50mA, and the output drops from 1700V to 0V immediately I turn it off (with an antique electrostatic voltmeter connected which may draw a bit).

It\'s energy, from a capacitor, not current that kills bugs.

The cap charging current is likely microamps.

Since when I unplug the USB cord, the voltage drops to 0 instantly, I doubt there\'s a cap in it.
It wouldn\'t be hard to measure. Or google.

The mains one is just a 240V to 2000V transformer directly connected to the rails.
That sounds lethal to bugs and to humans. And a fire hazard.

One outfit that I work with considers 9 joules the be the human
threshold of death.
Strange way to measure it. If you took 9 joules over a period of 1 hour, it wouldn\'t kill you. Surely current is a better measure? 80mA stops the heart I believe, which is why breakers trip at 30 or 50.

Circuit breakers trip at 30A or 50A, right?

mA, I was obviously talking about the earth leakage variety. The 30A/50A ones are overload breakers to stop fires when you melt wires.

> So, is 600W (200V 3A) battery safe? I got shocked a few times, especially when my fingers are wet. It wasn\'t bad enough to kill me, or i would not be posting this.

That should be able to kill you, but it has to pass through your heart, and you need a weak heart.

What battery is 200V and 3A?!

I plan to have banks of 200V batteries attached to either side of the car door. In addition to better weight distribution, nobody should touch both (400V) at the same time. Furthermore, i can eject the doors in case of fire.

How about 200V 10A, 20A or 30A?

To stop a car theif, use kV.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:39:10 +0100, Mike Coon <gravity@mjcoon.plus.com> wrote:

In article <op.1ls4v6yxmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>, CK1@nospam.com says...

On Sat, 07 May 2022 10:36:21 +0100, Mike Coon <gravity@mjcoon.plus.com> wrote:

In article <op.1lrt7ibcmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>, CK1@nospam.com says...

I live in Scotland. If you don\'t, you don\'t know what a mosquito is.

I\'m waiting for a Scot to invent a small dirigible modelled on a basking
shark crossed with a Dyson vacuum. It would patrol up and down hoovering
up the midges into a net...

ROFL! Actually there have been many attempts to cull mosquitoes, or midges, can\'t remember which, in Scotland. Can\'t find a link since those sort of searches are flooded out with how to stop them getting you on holiday.

I have the answer. Lifesystems Expedition 100+ - a spray you put on your bare flesh. Nothing will land on you. Even works on horses - I recommended it to a horser around here and she tried it! Keeps the flies off them.

Oh, I thought for a moment you were referring to one of those winged
horses...

Yes, I have a severe problem with looking very much like a horse runway.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:41:31 +0100, Mike Coon <gravity@mjcoon.plus.com> wrote:

In article <op.1ls4y8e1mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>, CK1@nospam.com says...

On Sat, 07 May 2022 15:32:27 +0100, <jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com> wrote:

On Sat, 7 May 2022 10:41:01 +0100, Mike Coon <gravity@mjcoon.plus.com
wrote:

In article <2TodK.6666$t72a.1025@fx10.iad>, g_wolf@howl.com says...

On 5/6/2022 10:31 AM, Mike Coon wrote:
In article <op.1lqyzpe3mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>, CK1@nospam.com says...
requires evaporation, not just stopping the heart. I could connect a milliammeter across the USB one\'s output, but I don\'t want to break the meter if there\'s a strong pulse to start with. The USB one states 1A 5V input, so the output couldn\'t continuously exceed only 3mA, unless it drops to 100V and gives out 50mA, and the output drops from 1700V to 0V immediately I turn it off (with an antique electrostatic voltmeter connected which may draw a bit).

Is your electrostatic voltmeter leaky? It should only \"draw\" a charge,
not a current.

BTW I don\'t want my wasps fried, because then the spider to which I
offer them is not interested. They have to wake up and flutter, then she
swoops and bites...

Cool ! What kinda spider you got.

It\'s called a noble false widow
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steatoda_nobilis). Not native to the UK
but spreading. When they have egg sacs that hatch into armies of
spiderlings that is when they get hoovered up...

I wonder what this is:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/e7q18eo1al8n3x4/Take-out.jpg?raw=1

We have almost no insects inside. The few spiders eat all the rest.

I kill the insects to starve the spiders.

Did you read the wikipedia article about \"my\" spider and their ability
to bite people? Better to keep them well fed, methinks...

Shoe beats spider.

 

[Ed Lee]

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 11:45:21 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:01:35 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 10:09:46 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 06 May 2022 23:02:40 +0100, Commander Kinsey <C...@nospam.com> wrote:

On Fri, 06 May 2022 20:02:11 +0100, John Walliker <jrwal...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, 6 May 2022 at 19:44:05 UTC+1, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 06 May 2022 17:40:45 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
C...@nospam.com> wrote:

On Fri, 06 May 2022 17:06:28 +0100, <jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com> wrote:

On Fri, 06 May 2022 13:44:03 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
C...@nospam.com> wrote:

I\'m talking about the bug zappers. I have a mains one which makes 2000V. I have a USB one which makes 1700V. I can and have measured those. The mains one is very effective, I see it frying wasps. I haven\'t had the opportunity to see the USB one in action yet and I\'m wondering if it will do anything useful. How much current is required to kill the insect? I know 80mA+ is needed to kill a human through the heart, but I get the feeling with insects the death requires evaporation, not just stopping the heart. I could connect a milliammeter across the USB one\'s output, but I don\'t want to break the meter if there\'s a strong pulse to start with. The USB one states 1A 5V input, so the output couldn\'t continuously exceed only 3mA, unless it drops to 100V and gives out 50mA, and the output drops from 1700V to 0V immediately I turn it off (with an antique electrostatic voltmeter connected which may draw a bit).

It\'s energy, from a capacitor, not current that kills bugs.

The cap charging current is likely microamps.

Since when I unplug the USB cord, the voltage drops to 0 instantly, I doubt there\'s a cap in it.
It wouldn\'t be hard to measure. Or google.

The mains one is just a 240V to 2000V transformer directly connected to the rails.
That sounds lethal to bugs and to humans. And a fire hazard.

One outfit that I work with considers 9 joules the be the human
threshold of death.
Strange way to measure it. If you took 9 joules over a period of 1 hour, it wouldn\'t kill you. Surely current is a better measure? 80mA stops the heart I believe, which is why breakers trip at 30 or 50.

Circuit breakers trip at 30A or 50A, right?
mA, I was obviously talking about the earth leakage variety. The 30A/50A ones are overload breakers to stop fires when you melt wires.

OK, GFCI.

So, is 600W (200V 3A) battery safe? I got shocked a few times, especially when my fingers are wet. It wasn\'t bad enough to kill me, or i would not be posting this.
That should be able to kill you, but it has to pass through your heart, and you need a weak heart.

I try to be careful to touch it with only one hand.

> What battery is 200V and 3A?!

Half of a 400V battery, fused to 3A. Slow charging into 400V 66Ah.

I plan to have banks of 200V batteries attached to either side of the car door. In addition to better weight distribution, nobody should touch both (400V) at the same time. Furthermore, i can eject the doors in case of fire.

How about 200V 10A, 20A or 30A?
To stop a car theif, use kV.

To drive the car too. 200V is much safer to carry it around.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:56:42 +0100, Ed Lee <edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 11:45:21 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:01:35 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 10:09:46 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 06 May 2022 23:02:40 +0100, Commander Kinsey <C...@nospam.com> wrote:

On Fri, 06 May 2022 20:02:11 +0100, John Walliker <jrwal...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, 6 May 2022 at 19:44:05 UTC+1, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 06 May 2022 17:40:45 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
C...@nospam.com> wrote:

On Fri, 06 May 2022 17:06:28 +0100, <jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com> wrote:

On Fri, 06 May 2022 13:44:03 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
C...@nospam.com> wrote:

I\'m talking about the bug zappers. I have a mains one which makes 2000V. I have a USB one which makes 1700V. I can and have measured those. The mains one is very effective, I see it frying wasps. I haven\'t had the opportunity to see the USB one in action yet and I\'m wondering if it will do anything useful. How much current is required to kill the insect? I know 80mA+ is needed to kill a human through the heart, but I get the feeling with insects the death requires evaporation, not just stopping the heart. I could connect a milliammeter across the USB one\'s output, but I don\'t want to break the meter if there\'s a strong pulse to start with. The USB one states 1A 5V input, so the output couldn\'t continuously exceed only 3mA, unless it drops to 100V and gives out 50mA, and the output drops from 1700V to 0V immediately I turn it off (with an antique electrostatic voltmeter connected which may draw a bit).

It\'s energy, from a capacitor, not current that kills bugs.

The cap charging current is likely microamps.

Since when I unplug the USB cord, the voltage drops to 0 instantly, I doubt there\'s a cap in it.
It wouldn\'t be hard to measure. Or google.

The mains one is just a 240V to 2000V transformer directly connected to the rails.
That sounds lethal to bugs and to humans. And a fire hazard.

One outfit that I work with considers 9 joules the be the human
threshold of death.
Strange way to measure it. If you took 9 joules over a period of 1 hour, it wouldn\'t kill you. Surely current is a better measure? 80mA stops the heart I believe, which is why breakers trip at 30 or 50.

Circuit breakers trip at 30A or 50A, right?
mA, I was obviously talking about the earth leakage variety. The 30A/50A ones are overload breakers to stop fires when you melt wires.

OK, GFCI.

Yeah if you want to call it that weird name. Let\'s change earth to ground, leakage to fault, and breaker to interrupter. It\'s sure to sell more to gullible folk.

So, is 600W (200V 3A) battery safe? I got shocked a few times, especially when my fingers are wet. It wasn\'t bad enough to kill me, or i would not be posting this.
That should be able to kill you, but it has to pass through your heart, and you need a weak heart.

I try to be careful to touch it with only one hand.

Then you get a warm hand, no big deal. I\'ve done that with 240V mains (no not the pansy 120V USA shit).

What battery is 200V and 3A?!

Half of a 400V battery, fused to 3A. Slow charging into 400V 66Ah.

What is this used for? I\'ve never heard of such high voltage batteries.

I plan to have banks of 200V batteries attached to either side of the car door. In addition to better weight distribution, nobody should touch both (400V) at the same time. Furthermore, i can eject the doors in case of fire.

How about 200V 10A, 20A or 30A?
To stop a car theif, use kV.

To drive the car too. 200V is much safer to carry it around.

Use an inverter.

 

[Ed Lee]

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 2:35:26 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:56:42 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 11:45:21 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:01:35 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 10:09:46 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 06 May 2022 23:02:40 +0100, Commander Kinsey <C...@nospam.com> wrote:

On Fri, 06 May 2022 20:02:11 +0100, John Walliker <jrwal...@gmail..com> wrote:

On Friday, 6 May 2022 at 19:44:05 UTC+1, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 06 May 2022 17:40:45 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
C...@nospam.com> wrote:

On Fri, 06 May 2022 17:06:28 +0100, <jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com> wrote:

On Fri, 06 May 2022 13:44:03 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
C...@nospam.com> wrote:

I\'m talking about the bug zappers. I have a mains one which makes 2000V. I have a USB one which makes 1700V. I can and have measured those. The mains one is very effective, I see it frying wasps. I haven\'t had the opportunity to see the USB one in action yet and I\'m wondering if it will do anything useful. How much current is required to kill the insect? I know 80mA+ is needed to kill a human through the heart, but I get the feeling with insects the death requires evaporation, not just stopping the heart.. I could connect a milliammeter across the USB one\'s output, but I don\'t want to break the meter if there\'s a strong pulse to start with. The USB one states 1A 5V input, so the output couldn\'t continuously exceed only 3mA, unless it drops to 100V and gives out 50mA, and the output drops from 1700V to 0V immediately I turn it off (with an antique electrostatic voltmeter connected which may draw a bit).

It\'s energy, from a capacitor, not current that kills bugs.

The cap charging current is likely microamps.

Since when I unplug the USB cord, the voltage drops to 0 instantly, I doubt there\'s a cap in it.
It wouldn\'t be hard to measure. Or google.

The mains one is just a 240V to 2000V transformer directly connected to the rails.
That sounds lethal to bugs and to humans. And a fire hazard.

One outfit that I work with considers 9 joules the be the human
threshold of death.
Strange way to measure it. If you took 9 joules over a period of 1 hour, it wouldn\'t kill you. Surely current is a better measure? 80mA stops the heart I believe, which is why breakers trip at 30 or 50.

Circuit breakers trip at 30A or 50A, right?
mA, I was obviously talking about the earth leakage variety. The 30A/50A ones are overload breakers to stop fires when you melt wires.

OK, GFCI.
Yeah if you want to call it that weird name. Let\'s change earth to ground, leakage to fault, and breaker to interrupter. It\'s sure to sell more to gullible folk.

Everybody know it by that name here.

So, is 600W (200V 3A) battery safe? I got shocked a few times, especially when my fingers are wet. It wasn\'t bad enough to kill me, or i would not be posting this.
That should be able to kill you, but it has to pass through your heart, and you need a weak heart.

I try to be careful to touch it with only one hand.
Then you get a warm hand, no big deal. I\'ve done that with 240V mains (no not the pansy 120V USA shit).
What battery is 200V and 3A?!

Half of a 400V battery, fused to 3A. Slow charging into 400V 66Ah.
What is this used for? I\'ve never heard of such high voltage batteries.

It\'s custom build.

I plan to have banks of 200V batteries attached to either side of the car door. In addition to better weight distribution, nobody should touch both (400V) at the same time. Furthermore, i can eject the doors in case of fire.

How about 200V 10A, 20A or 30A?
To stop a car theif, use kV.

To drive the car too. 200V is much safer to carry it around.
Use an inverter.

It\'s more efficient that way. The batteries are charged off the vehicle, and load/unload in parallel with the main, without the need to charge/discharge the energy from the main. It would also keep the main batteries cooler, which is a real problem with repeated fast charging.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sat, 07 May 2022 22:47:06 +0100, Ed Lee <edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 2:35:26 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:56:42 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 11:45:21 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:01:35 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 10:09:46 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 06 May 2022 23:02:40 +0100, Commander Kinsey <C...@nospam.com> wrote:

On Fri, 06 May 2022 20:02:11 +0100, John Walliker <jrwal...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, 6 May 2022 at 19:44:05 UTC+1, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 06 May 2022 17:40:45 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
C...@nospam.com> wrote:

On Fri, 06 May 2022 17:06:28 +0100, <jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com> wrote:

On Fri, 06 May 2022 13:44:03 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
C...@nospam.com> wrote:

I\'m talking about the bug zappers. I have a mains one which makes 2000V. I have a USB one which makes 1700V. I can and have measured those. The mains one is very effective, I see it frying wasps. I haven\'t had the opportunity to see the USB one in action yet and I\'m wondering if it will do anything useful. How much current is required to kill the insect? I know 80mA+ is needed to kill a human through the heart, but I get the feeling with insects the death requires evaporation, not just stopping the heart. I could connect a milliammeter across the USB one\'s output, but I don\'t want to break the meter if there\'s a strong pulse to start with. The USB one states 1A 5V input, so the output couldn\'t continuously exceed only 3mA, unless it drops to 100V and gives out 50mA, and the output drops from 1700V to 0V immediately I turn it off (with an antique electrostatic voltmeter connected which may draw a bit).

It\'s energy, from a capacitor, not current that kills bugs.

The cap charging current is likely microamps.

Since when I unplug the USB cord, the voltage drops to 0 instantly, I doubt there\'s a cap in it.
It wouldn\'t be hard to measure. Or google.

The mains one is just a 240V to 2000V transformer directly connected to the rails.
That sounds lethal to bugs and to humans. And a fire hazard.

One outfit that I work with considers 9 joules the be the human
threshold of death.
Strange way to measure it. If you took 9 joules over a period of 1 hour, it wouldn\'t kill you. Surely current is a better measure? 80mA stops the heart I believe, which is why breakers trip at 30 or 50.

Circuit breakers trip at 30A or 50A, right?
mA, I was obviously talking about the earth leakage variety. The 30A/50A ones are overload breakers to stop fires when you melt wires.

OK, GFCI.
Yeah if you want to call it that weird name. Let\'s change earth to ground, leakage to fault, and breaker to interrupter. It\'s sure to sell more to gullible folk.

Everybody know it by that name here.

Yeah well America isn\'t the sharpest knife in the drawer. You call live hot!

So, is 600W (200V 3A) battery safe? I got shocked a few times, especially when my fingers are wet. It wasn\'t bad enough to kill me, or i would not be posting this.
That should be able to kill you, but it has to pass through your heart, and you need a weak heart.

I try to be careful to touch it with only one hand.
Then you get a warm hand, no big deal. I\'ve done that with 240V mains (no not the pansy 120V USA shit).
What battery is 200V and 3A?!

Half of a 400V battery, fused to 3A. Slow charging into 400V 66Ah.
What is this used for? I\'ve never heard of such high voltage batteries.

It\'s custom build.

For what purpose?

I plan to have banks of 200V batteries attached to either side of the car door. In addition to better weight distribution, nobody should touch both (400V) at the same time. Furthermore, i can eject the doors in case of fire.

How about 200V 10A, 20A or 30A?
To stop a car theif, use kV.

To drive the car too. 200V is much safer to carry it around.
Use an inverter.

It\'s more efficient that way. The batteries are charged off the vehicle, and load/unload in parallel with the main, without the need to charge/discharge the energy from the main. It would also keep the main batteries cooler, which is a real problem with repeated fast charging.

Ah, an electric car? But could someone not steal the batteries from there?