How best to dilute gasoline to use in a kitchen sink?

[tom]

"Oren" <Oren@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:vsn13cdeee0kmqcmanqharscrf4fj96pcr@4ax.com...

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 18:19:25 -0500, clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:

There really isn't anything that will "dilute" gasoline that is not
either at least as flammable or at least as dangerous as gasoline
itself - particularly not that will not also destroy it's solvency.

Model T Fords would run on moonshine added to leaded gas

I thought the leaded gas was added to the moonshine.

 

[Charles Bishop]

In article <o0o515$r7r$1@news.mixmin.net>,
Robert Bannon <rbannon@yahoo.spam.nowhere.invalid> wrote:

> Any suggestions of common household chemicals that can dilute gasoline?

[snip]

Without being a pussy about the question, do you have any suggestion that
you think might work best to dilute the gasoline 10:1 (or even 100:1) so
that I'm using the minimum effective amount of gasoline indoors?

What can I 'cut' the gasoline with that will mix with the gas and dilute it
(maybe 10:1 or even maybe 100:1)?

Any suggestions of common household chemicals that can dilute gasoline?

The thread has 84 responses, some of which ignore your question to
advise you on safety.

If you're going for cheaper, I think anything you can find to dilute the
gasoline will be nearly as costly as the gasoline.

I know you want to do the label removal in the house, but wouldn't it be
better to do this final step outside? Surely you can save up the jars
until there is a sunny, breezy day? Also, you'll keep gasoline from
going down the sink drain (you mentioned a sink in what I deleted).

If ethanol works, how about isopropyl alcohol, a near relative?

Use a single edge razor blade to get most of the goop off, then use the
gasoline. Do the jars in batches for efficiency.

charles, that's all I've got

 

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 02:49:31 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon
<rbannon@yahoo.spam.nowhere.invalid> wrote:

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 18:19:25 -0500, clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:

There really isn't anything that will "dilute" gasoline that is not
either at least as flammable or at least as dangerous as gasoline
itself - particularly not that will not also destroy it's solvency.

Actually, while you're probably right in a *practical* sense, I'm sure there
are zillions of things that can dilute gasoline.

For example, Jeff already looked up what is in gasoline, so, diluting the
gasoline with any of those compounds would *probably* work.

Jeff mentioned for example,
a. butane,
b. isobutane,
c. pentane, and
d. isopentane.

Note to Jeff: I'm not sure if that is accurate though, because there must be
alkenes and alkynes, and aromatics too; but the point is that anything that
is *in* gas (which is a *lot* of things should be able to dilute it.

However, none of them appear to be 'common household chemicals'.

TECHNICALLY adding anything that is part of gasoline is NOT diluting
it - in many cases it is making it "stronger"

I'm willing to bet there is NOTHING that will meet your requirements
as a "dilutent" for gasoline that will make it smell less, work as
well or better, be less dangerous, and not cost the moon.

 

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 02:49:32 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon
<rbannon@yahoo.spam.nowhere.invalid> wrote:

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 18:29:18 -0500, clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:

The big danger with methanol combustion is you can't see the light
blue flame in a well lighted room - or even a poorly lighted one..
Other than that it is actually inherently safer than gasoline - and
the mixture is more dangerous than straight methanol as far as fire is
concerned.

I don't see alcohol, in any form, as viable, simply because I probably can't
easily get the alcohol without copious amounts of accompanying water.

And IF you can fet it 200 proof (100%) it will not stay that way
because it is TERRIBLT Hydroscopic. It will absorb moisture out of
desert air!!!

 

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 02:49:34 -0000 (UTC), Raymond Spruance III
<spruancerayIII@example.com> wrote:

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 18:32:59 -0500, clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Turn your boots over and shake them before you put them on to be sure
there is no mouse or scorpian in your boot (or shoe)

Yup. That kind of advice.

It's the useless kind of advice that dumb mommy's love to give.

I don't call it useless advice depending where you are. I have had a
mouse in the bottom of my boot more than once on the farm, and
scorpians in my shoes several times in Africa.

My sister keeps sending me these hoaxes to watch out for razor blades in my
kids halloween candy and to watch out for people selling cookies, etc.

There's a certain kind of person (most of those in the California Assembly,
in fact) who feel they need to be a nanny to everyone.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 02:49:31 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon
<rbannon@yahoo.spam.nowhere.invalid> wrote:

For example, Jeff already looked up what is in gasoline, so, diluting the
gasoline with any of those compounds would *probably* work.

Jeff mentioned for example,
a. butane,
b. isobutane,
c. pentane, and
d. isopentane.

Note to Jeff: I'm not sure if that is accurate though, because there must be
alkenes and alkynes, and aromatics too; but the point is that anything that
is *in* gas (which is a *lot* of things should be able to dilute it.

Nope. Please re-read what I ranted. Quoting myself:
MSDS for Exxon regular gasoline:

<http://www.msds.exxonmobil.com/IntApps/psims/Download.aspx?ID=83534&docFormat=RTF>
Looks like it contains all your favorite missing VOC's. According
to the MSDS, gasoline is a mix of butane, isobutane, pentane, and
isopentane.

The items your listed are what is in the "gasoline" portion of Exxon
regular in addition to the other noxious and banned stuff listed in
the MSDS. Exxon cleverly lists the major component of gasoline is
gasoline which seems rather circular.

Gasoline FAQ:
See section 4.4 What are the hydrocarbons in gasoline?
<http://www.faqs.org/faqs/autos/gasoline-faq/part1/index.html>

>However, none of them appear to be 'common household chemicals'.

Depends on the household. If cooking dinner is much like a chemstry
experiment, then that would be an uncommon but appropriate household.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 02:42:10 -0000 (UTC), Raymond Spruance III
<spruancerayIII@example.com> wrote:

I do wish you would use a single nym or alias, at least in the same
thread. It's becoming difficult to follow your various personality
changes.

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 18:31:08 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

So, by using gasoline for cleaning and label removal, you're dumping
VOCs into the atmosphere. If there was a reward, I would probably
turn you in for re-education and brain washing (using an eco friend
brain wash cleaner).

Yikes. And I invited you to our weekly inventors luncheon too!

You'll notice that I didn't attend. I don't invent, but prefer to
adapt or steal as required. I suspect that I would not be welcome.

Back to your original question about diluting gasoline, I'm wondering
why you need to dilute the gasoline. The best I could conjure is that
gasoline is expensive, being rather heavily taxed. Cutting it with a
cheaper untaxed hydrocarbon solvent might save a few pennies, but only
make sense if you're using gallons of the stuff. The problem is that
at about $2.50/gallon for gasoline, all the other solvents are at
least 3 times as expensive per gallon. Why do you need to dilute the
gasoline? How big or how many labels are you removing that the
process requires gallons of gasoline?


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 15:27:42 -0800, Oren <Oren@127.0.0.1> wrote:

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 18:19:25 -0500, clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:

There really isn't anything that will "dilute" gasoline that is not
either at least as flammable or at least as dangerous as gasoline
itself - particularly not that will not also destroy it's solvency.

Model T Fords would run on moonshine added to leaded gas

They'd run on straight moonshine if you opened the jets enough.. Most
Model T's never saw "ethyl" gas as it was discovered in 1921 and
firstr sold retail in Dayton Ohio in 1923.. It was 1928 before you
could use leaded gas in NYC.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 19:08:19 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon
<rbannon@yahoo.spam.nowhere.invalid> wrote:

Yup. The label removers are no better than gasoline, as far as I know, when
it comes to removing the underlying adhesive under most food-jar labels.

They work fairly well for me. Getting the oily residue off of
absorbent materials is my main objects. Number 2 objection is the
smell.

I went by Scarborough (Ace) Hardware today. What they have on the
shelf are:
Acetone
Denatured Alcohol
Lacquer Thinner
Paint Thinner
Turpentine
Mineral Spirits
Japan Dryer
Painters Solvent (replaces MEK, toluene, xylene, VM+P Naphtha).
That's it. All the good stuff is gone.

MSDS for Exxon regular gasoline:
<http://www.msds.exxonmobil.com/IntApps/psims/Download.aspx?ID=83534&docFormat=RTF>
Looks like it contains all your favorite missing VOC's. According to
the MSDS, gasoline is a mix of butane, isobutane, pentane, and
isopentane. I'm surprised that the California Air Resources Board
hasn't banned gasoline.

So, by using gasoline for cleaning and label removal, you're dumping
VOCs into the atmosphere. If there was a reward, I would probably
turn you in for re-education and brain washing (using an eco friend
brain wash cleaner).


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 02:42:08 -0000 (UTC), Raymond Spruance III
<spruancerayIII@example.com> wrote:

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 18:11:04 -0500, clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:

The reason one solvent doesn't work all the time is there are so
many "glues" used to attach labels.

I understand.

You might not notice but I don't believe anyone who says any one solve works
all the time, because it's just not going to happen.

You'll notice that I take pains to say that the gasoline works "most" of the
time, and "more" so than the other solvents that I have tried (with acetone
coming in second to gasoline but a distant second at that).

Also, I didn't realize you guys actually put the solvent *on* the label,
which I never do.

I remove the labels first, and only *after* the label is gone, do I use the
solvent to try to get rid of the goop.

So some of us (e.g., peanut oil Oren! ) are attacking different problems.

Because of the evaporation rate of MOST of these solvents, using it
ON the label makes a lot of sense because it keeps the solvent in
contact with the glue longer before it evaporates. Try it.

 

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 02:42:09 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon
<rbannon@yahoo.spam.nowhere.invalid> wrote:

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 17:19:41 -0700, Charles Bishop wrote:

If ethanol works, how about isopropyl alcohol, a near relative?

The problem with *any* alcohol, is getting it without the water.

I guess mixing gasoline with water might not be a bad idea though.

Dunno. I never tried it.

But that's the theoretical problem with consumer alcohol (which is a lot of
water with some alcohol).
Try it some day - it will NOT mix. (water with gasoline)

 

[gregz]

<clare@snyder.on.ca> wrote:

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 19:08:26 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon
rbannon@yahoo.spam.nowhere.invalid> wrote:

On Fri, 18 Nov 2016 23:16:28 -0500, JC wrote:

Well, I'm just really glad I don't live in Califailia. I do like my
solvents.

I am hoping that the solvent that we scientifically come up with is not only
readily available, but that it *lowers* the negative qualities of gasoline.
There really isn't anything that will "dilute" gasoline that is not
either at least as flammable or at least as dangerous as gasoline
itself - particularly not that will not also destroy it's solvency.

Jet fuel. Plain kerosene.

Greg

 

[Andy Burns]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

How big or how many labels are you removing that the
process requires gallons of gasoline?

That's what I was wondering too, one aerosol can of label-remover has
lasted me several years so far ...

 

[Robert Bannon]

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 09:53:52 -0500, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

> A quart bottle of citrus based Goo Gone lasted me over a decade.

I'll bet you a jar of mayonnaise also lasts a while.
But making it yourself is far more enjoyable and far more tasty.

I'll bet you a jar of toilet bowl cleaner lasts a while too.
But once you've used muriatic acid, you'll never use a commercial solution
ever again.

If you knew how utterly *EFFECTIVE* gasoline is for dissolving most goop,
I'd bet you'd never use that goo gone stuff ever again.

I haven't tried the googone stuff, but gasoline literally melts most goop
off on contact.

How long does it take for the googone stuff to melt all the goop off in most
cases?

 

[Robert Bannon]

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 10:47:55 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

That's what I was wondering too, one aerosol can of label-remover has
lasted me several years so far ...

That's cheating.

That's like buying mayonnaise in a jar.
Sure, it's easy.

But it's no fun.
Making it yourself takes technique; but that's the fun of it.

Plus, often, a home-spun solution works far better (e.g., muriatic acid in
an encrusted toilet bowl works extremely well, and certainly worlds' better
than any grocery store solution you've ever used in your life!).

Sure, muriatic acid is dangerous.
But it's a readily available chemical that works like you can't believe, for
cleaning toilet bowl crud.

Same thing here.
Anyone, without a morsel of thought, can *buy* a ready-made solution.

Why even have a newsgroup titled anything.repair if all you do is buy a
ready-made solution?

Remember, I *already* have a perfectly good solution using three readily
available solvents:
1. Water (to remove paper labels)
2. Gasoline (to remove most goop)
3. Acetone (to remove the rare goop impervious to gasoline)

The only reason for the question was to figure out how to chemically cut the
gasoline down to 1/10th of full strength (or more) so that it possibly could
be used inside instead of outside.

It's not more complicated than that.

If you want to buy your solutions without thinking further about them,
that's fine as it's a perfectly viable and sensible approach.

There are plenty of people who don't cut down their own trees, and who don't
mix their own cement and who don't dig their own post holes and who don't
repair their own oscilloscopes, etc.

But I wouldn't think we'd find them on these two repair newsgroups, who are
all about getting scientific and technical and practical advice on home spun
solutions.

 

[Robert Bannon]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 19:25:47 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

The problem is that
at about $2.50/gallon for gasoline, all the other solvents are at
least 3 times as expensive per gallon. Why do you need to dilute the
gasoline? How big or how many labels are you removing that the
process requires gallons of gasoline?

Thanks for thinking Jeff, and for asking thinking questions.
This question was always about chemistry.

Answers:
1. I only remove about 1 label a week (or so).
2. It's not the expense; it's the pleasure of using a home remedy solution
that actually works (if peanut butter really worked, that would be fine).
3. I've tried *all* the chemicals I keep at home.
4. Gasoline works more often than all the rest.
5. Acetone works second best (but not as well as gasoline).
6. Gasoline stinks up the house if used inside.
7. Plus it's too flammable to store under the kitchen sink.
8. So I'm just trying to use vastly diluted gasoline.
9. My hope is that a 1:10 gas:diluent solution will still work.
10. If it's a 1:10 solution of gas:diluent, it might not stink so bad.
11. And, a 1:10 solution might be more safely stored indoors.
12. That's the only reason I ask the scientific question.

I only remove a label about once every week or two.

 

[Robert Bannon]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 22:48:00 -0500, clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Because of the evaporation rate of MOST of these solvents, using it
ON the label makes a lot of sense because it keeps the solvent in
contact with the glue longer before it evaporates. Try it.

This is an interesting technique to keep the label on while applying the
solvent. It won't work, I'm sure, as well in plastic labels, but it might
work well for the paper labels.

Thanks for that suggestion. I will try it soon.

 

[Robert Bannon]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 19:46:09 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Depends on the household. If cooking dinner is much like a chemstry
experiment, then that would be an uncommon but appropriate household.

This was written by a mad scientist who lives in your area:
'Your Mother was a Chemist"
http://kitchenscience.sci-toys.com/

 

[Ron D.]

How about Oops original? https://www.sherwin-williams.com/document/MSDS/en/033873007556/

A hair dryer works on some labels.

Or dry cleaning solvent: http://www.shieldindustries.com/F_DCF.htm

See the specs for MSDS.

They include a lot of the solvents that were determined to work.

Gasoline in the house is about as stupid as operating a generator in the house. I hope you don't have natural gas appliances? I suspect you don't, otherwise we probably would not be having this discussion.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Andy Burns wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

How big or how many labels are you removing that the
process requires gallons of gasoline?

That's what I was wondering too, one aerosol can of label-remover has
lasted me several years so far ...

A quart bottle of citrus based Goo Gone lasted me over a decade.


https://www.buycott.com/upc/070048779305/gz92-32oz-goo-gone

--
Never piss off an Engineer!

They don't get mad.

They don't get even.

They go for over unity! ;-)