How best to dilute gasoline to use in a kitchen sink?

[Robert Bannon]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 00:03:06 -0500, clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:

> Naptha won't help the flammabilty/explosive danger.

Thanks for looking at the problem from a scientific standpoint.

The main issue is that gasoline is a *fantastic* readily available and cheap
(relatively) solvent for eliminating the goop under the labels (after the
label is removed by soaking in water); but gasoline (a) stinks, and (b) is
flammable.

So all we're trying to do is reduce those two deleterious qualities:
a. Lower the stink (or mask it with a better stink perhaps)
b. Lower the flammability issue (probably by lowering the quantity)

Looking at naphtha as the diluent and gasoline as the solvent, and assuming
something around a 1:10 ratio of diluent to solvent, the first thing I find
is that naphtha is, like gasoline, not a single chemical in and of itself.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum_naphtha

Looking up whether naphtha is a good diluent for gasoline, people do it:
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2013/10/20131008-naphtha.html

But the results were too complex for me to glean the gist of the results in
a single skim, so I'll move on to the next suggestion for the moment.

> Butane is even worse.
I don't see butane readily available either.
It might be (e.g., lighter refills), but it seems too flammable for me to
consider as the diluent.

Methanol is corrosive, VERY flammable and poisonous (absorbs
through the skin too)

The problem, I think, with *any* alcohol, is that they're gonna dilute it
with water, and water isn't what we want to mix with the gasoline, so,
unless we can find reagent grade alcohols, I think alcohol that we do find
will have water in it.

Dichloromethane may be an alternative but it has serious health risks
as well

Is that a common household chemical?

 

[Robert Bannon]

On Fri, 18 Nov 2016 23:16:28 -0500, JC wrote:

Well, I'm just really glad I don't live in Califailia. I do like my
solvents.

I am hoping that the solvent that we scientifically come up with is not only
readily available, but that it *lowers* the negative qualities of gasoline.

 

[Robert Bannon]

On Fri, 18 Nov 2016 23:37:20 -0500, clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:

The only thing I know of that will "dilute" gasoline and make it
less flammable is Carbon Tet - which has serious safety issues itself
and has been illegal for years.

This is interesting, even though carbon tetrachloride is probably difficult
to get and hence isn't a standard household chemical.

You have a good point in that the goal of dilution is to reduce the
deleterious qualities of the gasoline, which, let's face it, works just fine
as a label goop remover.

The problem with the gasoline is obvious though, so that's what I'm trying
to reduce by diluting with some other common household chemical.

I was hoping that the dilution would reduce the negative complications of
gasoline.

From the scientific standpoint (which is really what I'm after), are you
saying that a 50:50 mixture of methanol and gasoline would be *more*
flammable than a 100% mixture of either one?

 

[Robert Bannon]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 14:51:39 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

Dedicated label remover is better than WD-40 and the orange smell is
quite nice.

https://youtu.be/b4Cu1tYpc64

No, he doesn't compare petrol to the others

Thanks for that video.

The video underscores the fact that no one solvent works in all cases, so
all we really are looking for is a solvent that works most of the time.

The video also underscores the *confusion* that surrounds removing labels.

They tested against paper labels the following removers:
1. Maplin Label Remover
2. Zinsser Universal Degreaser & Cleaner
3. WD-40
4. Methylated spirits

The confusion is that the video highlights that there are two *separate*
problems, one of which I've solved long ago, but both of which they are
attacking.

1. Removing a (paper in this case) label
2. Removing the underlying goop

I only am attacking the underlying goop, since soaking removes paper labels
quite well already.

IMHO, when I'm looking for a cheap readily available household chemical to
remove the goop, I don't need to make the problem *harder* by also asking
that chemical to remove the (paper in this case) label, especially since
there is already a cheap readily available household solved (aka dihydrogen
oxide) which removes paper labels quite handily.

 

[Robert Bannon]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 14:38:22 +0000, Stormin' Norman wrote:

> I will reiterate my recommendation, use WD-40 for label removal.

I hear you on the miracle-in-a-can as I knew about it, and had tried it
years ago, and decided it was a myth. But I can try it again, especially if,
as you say, they supply a liquid version of this miracle in a can.

If the odor is too offensive for your manly
sensibilities, buy the product in liquid form.

I appreciate that advice since I didn't know they made a liquid form.
I have only used the spray, and found it to be substandard in every way for
"lubrication" and "protection" of metal-on-metal surfaces.

If you do not atomize it with a spray, the odor is far less
pervasive.

Thank you for that point, which I agree with you on, which is that for my
use, the miracle in a can will best be the liquid version.

With WD-40, apply a light layer to the label and just let it sit for a little while. Come back in 10 - 15
minutes and the adhesive will have dissolved and the label will slide off with virtually no work.

Interesting that you mention a "label".
I always remove the label first, generally by soaking in plain old water.
Once I have the label removed, that's where I need the solvent to remove the
goop.

If you need a powerful solvent that will dissolve almost anything else, buy a can of lacquer thinner (yes, it
is available in California) LT is unbelievable in it's utility.

I think I've tried it, but I see I don't have any on my shelves at the
moment, so, if California will allow me to buy it, I'll pick up some lacquer
thinner if it's still sold.

Use of and storage of gasoline and other highly carcinogenic chemicals mixtures inside the living area of a
residence is as inadvisable as smoking or leaving a loaded, unlocked firearm where might be accessible by a 5
year old child.

And wipe your shoes before you come in the house.
Otherwise, someone might slip on the mud.

 

[Stormin' Norman]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 00:49:21 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon <rbannon@yahoo.spam.nowhere.invalid> wrote:

I'll head off to the hardware store to see what California chemicals I can
find that are cheap and that are solvents that I can cut at a 10:1 ratio of
solvent to gasoline.

I will reiterate my recommendation, use WD-40 for label removal. If the odor is too offensive for your manly
sensibilities, buy the product in liquid form. If you do not atomize it with a spray, the odor is far less
pervasive.

With WD-40, apply a light layer to the label and just let it sit for a little while. Come back in 10 - 15
minutes and the adhesive will have dissolved and the label will slide off with virtually no work.

If you need a powerful solvent that will dissolve almost anything else, buy a can of lacquer thinner (yes, it
is available in California) LT is unbelievable in it's utility.

Use of and storage of gasoline and other highly carcinogenic chemicals mixtures inside the living area of a
residence is as inadvisable as smoking or leaving a loaded, unlocked firearm where might be accessible by a 5
year old child.

 

[bitrex]

On 11/18/2016 08:23 PM, Robert Bannon wrote:

Acetone tends to melt far more stuff than did the gasoline.
As I said in the OP, I gave up on the acetone, but, I didn't think of using
it as the solution to cut the gasoline.

One time, not thinking what I was doing, I poured a little hardware
store acetone into a Styrofoam cup, and instantly ended up with a big
gloppy mess of acetone and melted Styrofoam on my lap.

Then I felt dumb.

 

[bitrex]

On 11/18/2016 11:35 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

There are made for purpose label removers, all of which really smell
awful. Goop-Off, Un-Du, Turtle Wax T-529, Goo-Gone, etc.

Tangentially related: if you ever discover to your horror that you have
some white deodorant residue on a black dress shirt, Armor All interior
detailer spray gets it right off.

Don't ask how I came to know this.

 

[Andy Burns]

Stormin' Norman wrote:

I will reiterate my recommendation, use WD-40 for label removal. If
the odor is too offensive for your manly sensibilities, buy the
product in liquid form.

Dedicated label remover is better than WD-40 and the orange smell is
quite nice.

<https://youtu.be/b4Cu1tYpc64>

No, he doesn't compare petrol to the others

 

[Jon Danniken]

On 11/18/16 5:05 PM, Robert Bannon wrote:

Any suggestions of common household chemicals that can dilute gasoline?

What can I 'cut' the gasoline with that will mix with the gas and dilute it
(maybe 10:1 or even maybe 100:1)?

Any suggestions of common household chemicals that can dilute gasoline?

Naptha, AKA lighter fluid (Ronson brand) or paint thinner). Or "white
gas" AKA camping gas (coleman gas, or the stuff they sell at REI by the
quart).

Jon

p.s. Don't do it, it's dangerous, you'll blow up the neighborhood, blah
blah blah.

 

[Robert Bannon]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 10:57:44 -0800, Oren wrote:

For removing labels I was suggesting lighter fluid (NAPHTHA) to remove
labels. Not suggesting mixing it with gas. I removes labels, tar,
grease & oil stains. <https://tinyurl.com/hpzopew

The problem isn't removing the label, but the goop under the label once the
label is removed.

The Naphtha probably works but does it work better than gasoline?
Dunno.

I'd need to find naphtha in the stores to test it out against gasoline
(which works just fine for removing most goop).

In the rare case that gasoline fails to remove the goop, acetone often works
(but acetone fails more than does gasoline).

I wasn't joking about peanut butter (smooth variety) either. It takes
longer so the oil soaks in and loosens the label. YMMV

I just use water to remove the label.
a. I fill the jar with water so it sinks
b. I drop it into a larger bucket of water

You can't beat water for being a readily available household chemical.
But water only removes the label.

My problem is removing the goop.
You can't beat gasoline for being a readily available household chemical for
removing the goop.

The only problem with the gasoline is it has to be used outdoors.
So that's why I'm trying to find how to make it so that it can be used
indoors.

 

[amdx]

On 11/18/2016 10:35 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 00:05:58 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon
rbannon@yahoo.spam.nowhere.invalid> wrote:

I use gasoline as a home goo-gone substitute for removing labels.

If the base material can tolerate some heat, use a hot air heat gun:
"How to Remove Stickers and Labels Using Heat"
http://www.todayshomeowner.com/video/how-to-remove-stickers-and-labels-using-heat/

I don't know what kind of labels you're using, but the ones that I
have to remove from customers laptops uses easy to remove rubber
cement type glue, that is easily dissolved with almost any hydrocarbon
solvent. The trick is to let the solvent soak into the paper label or
soften the edge of a metal label. I think I use paint thinner.

However, I sometimes run into old labels where the glue has hardened
to something like a rock. For those, I mechanically scrape off most
of the label with a plastic razor blade paint scraper, and then attack
with the solvent.
https://www.amazon.com/Plastic-Double-Edged-Razor-Scraper/dp/B004623NU2

Well, you could try using something that was actually formulated for
removing labels:
3M General Purpose Adhesive Cleaner, Quart, 08984
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ZIM9XPI
Ouch. Rather expensive at $25/quart.
SDS shows interesting and noxious chemicals:
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?mwsId=SSSSSuUn_zu8l00x4xt9PxmxOv70k17zHvu9lxtD7SSSSSS--
Ingredient C.A.S. No. % by Wt
Xylene 1330-20-7 30 - 60 Trade Secret *
Hydrotreated Light Naphtha (Petroleum)
64742-49-0 30 - 60 Trade Secret *
Ethylbenzene 100-41-4 7 - 13 Trade Secret *
Toluene 108-88-3 0.5 - 1.5 Trade Secret *
Benzene 71-43-2 < 0.1 Trade Secret *
For naphtha, use Coleman camp fuel. Xylene and toluene are no longer
available in California, so those won't work.

There are made for purpose label removers, all of which really smell
awful. Goop-Off, Un-Du, Turtle Wax T-529, Goo-Gone, etc.

Then, there are the home concoctions:
https://www.pinterest.com/explore/remove-sticky-labels/

I remove the labels on some 3.5 gallon food grade buckets by cutting
paper towel the size of the label, lay it over the label and then put
just enough Xylene on the paper towel to wet it. I wait 5 minutes and
the label will peel off whole with no problem. Sometimes I need to use
the paper towel to remove residual glue.
Before I found that, I could spend a hour scraping off the label. now
I can get 20 done in less than an hour.
Mikek

 

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 14:38:22 +0000, Stormin' Norman
<norman@schwarzkopf.invalid> wrote:

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 00:49:21 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon <rbannon@yahoo.spam.nowhere.invalid> wrote:


I'll head off to the hardware store to see what California chemicals I can
find that are cheap and that are solvents that I can cut at a 10:1 ratio of
solvent to gasoline.

I will reiterate my recommendation, use WD-40 for label removal. If the odor is too offensive for your manly
sensibilities, buy the product in liquid form. If you do not atomize it with a spray, the odor is far less
pervasive.

With WD-40, apply a light layer to the label and just let it sit for a little while. Come back in 10 - 15
minutes and the adhesive will have dissolved and the label will slide off with virtually no work.

If you need a powerful solvent that will dissolve almost anything else, buy a can of lacquer thinner (yes, it
is available in California) LT is unbelievable in it's utility.

Use of and storage of gasoline and other highly carcinogenic chemicals mixtures inside the living area of a
residence is as inadvisable as smoking or leaving a loaded, unlocked firearm where might be accessible by a 5
year old child.

It will also REALLY piss off your insurance company - even if stored
in a sealed "listed" container.

 

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 09:39:11 -0500, bitrex
<bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote:

On 11/18/2016 08:23 PM, Robert Bannon wrote:

Acetone tends to melt far more stuff than did the gasoline.
As I said in the OP, I gave up on the acetone, but, I didn't think of using
it as the solution to cut the gasoline.

One time, not thinking what I was doing, I poured a little hardware
store acetone into a Styrofoam cup, and instantly ended up with a big
gloppy mess of acetone and melted Styrofoam on my lap.

Then I felt dumb.

Gasoline does the same thing. Might take twice as long but you still
measure it in seconds and fractions there-of.

 

[Robert Bannon]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 16:02:42 -0500, dadiOH wrote:

Wouldn't work even if it weren't flammable since it is only a liquid when
under pressure.

Good point. I didn't even think of that.

 

[pfjw@aol.com]

On Friday, November 18, 2016 at 7:06:00 PM UTC-5, Robert Bannon wrote:

I hereby nominate Robert Bannon for an anticipatory Darwin Award. Usually they are awarded posthumously, but he is such a "real man" that I thought he may wish to enjoy it in advance.

Real Men are responsible for themselves and others, and typically avoid all forms of ritual suicide, including the breathing of benzine-based fumes indoors. Can you say CARCINOGEN? For sure, you cannot spell it.

Sheesh!

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[Oren]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 02:02:46 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon
<rbannon@yahoo.spam.nowhere.invalid> wrote:

On Fri, 18 Nov 2016 17:15:08 -0800, Oren wrote:

Lighter fluid, NAPHTHA!

Did you try peanut butter on the labels?

Butane might cut gasoline, as you suggested.
Naptha is almost certain verboten in California.

For removing labels I was suggesting lighter fluid (NAPHTHA) to remove
labels. Not suggesting mixing it with gas. I removes labels, tar,
grease & oil stains. <https://tinyurl.com/hpzopew>


I wasn't joking about peanut butter (smooth variety) either. It takes
longer so the oil soaks in and loosens the label. YMMV

But I'm not sure.
It's got to be sold in order for me to use it though.

I don't see naptha at Home Depot for example.
http://www.homedepot.com/b/Paint-Paint-Thinner-Additives-Solvents-Cleaners-Paint-Thinner-Solvents-Cleaners/Paint-Thinners-and-Strippers/N-5yc1vZc5bmZ1z0t5hf

 

Robert Bannon posted for all of us...

Any suggestions of common household chemicals that can dilute gasoline?

AS a FF I was going to let this pass but I see from some of your replies are
less than "manly" as you put it.

Please let me know where you live, when you are going to do it and if there
are innocent victims in your abode. I will update the run card and CAD so
responders will not endanger themselves to recover your charred
unrecognizable remains.

--
Tekkie

 

[Stormin' Norman]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 19:08:29 -0000 (UTC), Robert Bannon <rbannon@yahoo.spam.nowhere.invalid> wrote:

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 14:38:22 +0000, Stormin' Norman wrote:

I will reiterate my recommendation, use WD-40 for label removal.

I hear you on the miracle-in-a-can as I knew about it, and had tried it
years ago, and decided it was a myth. But I can try it again, especially if,
as you say, they supply a liquid version of this miracle in a can.

You can get a gallon of it for about $17 through Amazon. That should last you for years.

If the odor is too offensive for your manly
sensibilities, buy the product in liquid form.

I appreciate that advice since I didn't know they made a liquid form.
I have only used the spray, and found it to be substandard in every way for
"lubrication" and "protection" of metal-on-metal surfaces.

That is because it is a penetrating oil and water displacement agent. It was originally developed for
protecting the outer skin and the fuel tanks of the Atlas missile.

If you do not atomize it with a spray, the odor is far less
pervasive.

Thank you for that point, which I agree with you on, which is that for my
use, the miracle in a can will best be the liquid version.

With WD-40, apply a light layer to the label and just let it sit for a little while. Come back in 10 - 15
minutes and the adhesive will have dissolved and the label will slide off with virtually no work.

Interesting that you mention a "label".
I always remove the label first, generally by soaking in plain old water.
Once I have the label removed, that's where I need the solvent to remove the
goop.

If you need a powerful solvent that will dissolve almost anything else, buy a can of lacquer thinner (yes, it
is available in California) LT is unbelievable in it's utility.

I think I've tried it, but I see I don't have any on my shelves at the
moment, so, if California will allow me to buy it, I'll pick up some lacquer
thinner if it's still sold.

A gallon through Amazon should be less than $20. I really hate going to Home Depot. The gallons are a much
better deal than quarts.

Use of and storage of gasoline and other highly carcinogenic chemicals mixtures inside the living area of a
residence is as inadvisable as smoking or leaving a loaded, unlocked firearm where might be accessible by a 5
year old child.

And wipe your shoes before you come in the house.
Otherwise, someone might slip on the mud.

Good advice, wiping your shoes also helps keep unnecessary dirt out of the house. One of our critters is a
very sweet, personable and affectionate donkey. Every opportunity she gets to come in the house, she sneaks
in, she doesn't ever cause a problem, other than the dirt that comes in on her hooves.

 

[burfordTjustice]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 00:05:58 -0000 (UTC)
Robert Bannon <rbannon@yahoo.spam.nowhere.invalid> wrote:

Any suggestions of common household chemicals that can dilute
gasoline?

I use gasoline as a home goo-gone substitute for removing labels.
Most often I do it outside, because of the stink, but I want to keep
it inside in tiny amounts, diluted as much as possible.

I've already tried all the common home chemicals from alcohol to
acetone to lemon juice to engine degreaser to dish detergent to brake
cleaner to windex to automatic-transmission fluid and MAF cleaner,
all of which work sometimes but all of which fail often (either
because they melt the container or they don't dissolve the goo).

I've even tried common flavorings such as orange blossom extract, rose
water, pure lemon extract, coconut oil and walnut oil, which,
surprisingly, are totally useless (but they do smell the best!).

I've found, through decades of experience, that gasoline, which also
fails sometimes, works more often than any other household common
chemical.

But gasoline has all the problems that most of you will love to
"teach" me, but that's not the question (so please don't try to teach
me why gasoline vapors are flammable and why I should goo-be-gone
outdoors because I know that).

Also please don't try to teach me that there are commercial lemon-oil
solutions.

I just want to dilute the gasoline and I already know that even the
diluted gasoline vapors will be flammable. We take risks sometimes
when working around the house and not being a pussy about it all the
time.

So I plan to keep a small jar of gasoline properly labeled under the
kitchen sink (let's not go into the dangers of doing that, because
properly diluting it won't solve that danger for the most part).

Without being a pussy about the question, do you have any suggestion
that you think might work best to dilute the gasoline 10:1 (or even
100:1) so that I'm using the minimum effective amount of gasoline
indoors?

What can I 'cut' the gasoline with that will mix with the gas and
dilute it (maybe 10:1 or even maybe 100:1)?

Any suggestions of common household chemicals that can dilute
gasoline?

Acorn Flour works best.