Home lab parts

[Phil Hobbs]

On 2020-02-13 06:23, Chris Jones wrote:

On 13/02/2020 07:58, rangerssuck wrote:
On Thursday, February 6, 2020 at 2:12:16 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:

I don't like dead bugging because the pin orders are always mirrored. So
I cut small snippets of wood, copperclad or whatever, and glue the
snippets and then the parts to larger copperclad. Then it's "living bug
style", still on top and the pin order is as in the datasheet.

For dead bugging with DIP packages, I often just bend the pins 180° so
that I can stick the chip down face up. I sometimes cringe thinking
about busted off pins, but in over 40 years of doing this, I've yet to
have one break.

Bending the leads 90 degrees (so that the leadframe is all in one plane,
like it was before the manufacturer bent it) is sufficient and less
risky than 180 degrees. Works with SO-8 too. With care, you can avoid
shorts to the groundplane, and if you don't want to have to exercise
care, put down some strips of Kapton tape onto the groundplane
beforehand, where required.

I certainly prefer the package markings to be face-up, because I have a
terrible memory and will lose the diagrams etc. and will want to know
which chip I used.

Way easier to draw a schematic and mark pin 1 by gouging the package
with dikes. DIP leads are very strong if you don't bend them--you can
really reef on them, which lets you bend Rs and Cs into position with
just your fingers, rather than needing pliers. All the solder joints
are a quarter inch above the ground plane, so shorts are a non-issue.

Dead bug is super fast with DIPs. You can do it with SOICs and SOT23s
as well, but their leads are much wimpier, so you have to use pliers a
lot. I stagger the SOIC leads like saw teeth, which helps.

For anything smaller, I just use Bellin breakouts held down with Gorilla
tape. pHEMTs and SiGe transistors are a bit more of a challenge, but
pHEMTs are actually surprisingly stable for such hot devices.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[mpm]

On Thursday, February 13, 2020 at 10:08:11 PM UTC-5,
> But DIPS are mostly history now.

Exhibit 1: AT89LP3240 (And 8-bit, 8051 style micro)
While it still shows as an ACTIVE part, Digikey no longer carries it in DIP.
Mouser has it in DIP, though.

Situation: A legacy product that needed an extra ADC channel added.

If space and power consumption is not an issue, I actually prefer to work with DIP's. But those days are clearly numbered now.

 

On Thu, 13 Feb 2020 22:23:32 +1100, Chris Jones
<lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> wrote:

On 13/02/2020 07:58, rangerssuck wrote:
On Thursday, February 6, 2020 at 2:12:16 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:

I don't like dead bugging because the pin orders are always mirrored. So
I cut small snippets of wood, copperclad or whatever, and glue the
snippets and then the parts to larger copperclad. Then it's "living bug
style", still on top and the pin order is as in the datasheet.

For dead bugging with DIP packages, I often just bend the pins 180° so that I can stick the chip down face up. I sometimes cringe thinking about busted off pins, but in over 40 years of doing this, I've yet to have one break.

Bending the leads 90 degrees (so that the leadframe is all in one plane,
like it was before the manufacturer bent it) is sufficient and less
risky than 180 degrees.

At least one pin, and often several, can be soldered unbent to the
ground plane, to make the part stand up like a tiny table.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/oegve42oi34kt4e/Live_Bug.jpg?raw=1

(a very old picture)


But DIPS are mostly history now. I use little surface-mount adapters
and goosh them onto the ground plane with double-stick foam tape.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ifnvctd6yg68dtu/US8s.jpg?raw=1




--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The cork popped merrily, and Lord Peter rose to his feet.
"Bunter", he said, "I give you a toast. The triumph of Instinct over Reason"

 

[Rick C]

On Thursday, February 13, 2020 at 10:38:23 PM UTC-5, mpm wrote:

On Thursday, February 13, 2020 at 10:08:11 PM UTC-5,
But DIPS are mostly history now.

Exhibit 1: AT89LP3240 (And 8-bit, 8051 style micro)
While it still shows as an ACTIVE part, Digikey no longer carries it in DIP.
Mouser has it in DIP, though.

Situation: A legacy product that needed an extra ADC channel added.

If space and power consumption is not an issue, I actually prefer to work with DIP's. But those days are clearly numbered now.

Is this because you use sockets for your parts? Or do you find through hole easier to solder? Personally I don't find through hole any easier to solder and sockets give trouble unless you use the most expensive ones. But then I just plain don't solder anymore. Hands and eyes aren't up to it. I can pay people to do that for much less money than I get paid.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[George Herold]

On Thursday, February 13, 2020 at 6:23:40 AM UTC-5, Chris Jones wrote:

On 13/02/2020 07:58, rangerssuck wrote:
On Thursday, February 6, 2020 at 2:12:16 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:

I don't like dead bugging because the pin orders are always mirrored. So
I cut small snippets of wood, copperclad or whatever, and glue the
snippets and then the parts to larger copperclad. Then it's "living bug
style", still on top and the pin order is as in the datasheet.

For dead bugging with DIP packages, I often just bend the pins 180° so that I can stick the chip down face up. I sometimes cringe thinking about busted off pins, but in over 40 years of doing this, I've yet to have one break.

Bending the leads 90 degrees (so that the leadframe is all in one plane,
like it was before the manufacturer bent it) is sufficient and less
risky than 180 degrees. Works with SO-8 too. With care, you can avoid
shorts to the groundplane, and if you don't want to have to exercise
care, put down some strips of Kapton tape onto the groundplane
beforehand, where required.

Huh, this is what I do. But I float the IC's above the ground plane
(on bypass caps for power pins) I never thought of putting
it right on the ground plane.

Hey here's a related question. What do people use if they want to stick
some IC or plastic package to the copper clad? Some type of
semi-permanent glue/ goop? Rubber cement?

George H.

I certainly prefer the package markings to be face-up, because I have a
terrible memory and will lose the diagrams etc. and will want to know
which chip I used.

 

On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 18:14:21 -0800 (PST), George Herold
<ggherold@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, February 13, 2020 at 6:23:40 AM UTC-5, Chris Jones wrote:
On 13/02/2020 07:58, rangerssuck wrote:
On Thursday, February 6, 2020 at 2:12:16 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:

I don't like dead bugging because the pin orders are always mirrored. So
I cut small snippets of wood, copperclad or whatever, and glue the
snippets and then the parts to larger copperclad. Then it's "living bug
style", still on top and the pin order is as in the datasheet.

For dead bugging with DIP packages, I often just bend the pins 180° so that I can stick the chip down face up. I sometimes cringe thinking about busted off pins, but in over 40 years of doing this, I've yet to have one break.

Bending the leads 90 degrees (so that the leadframe is all in one plane,
like it was before the manufacturer bent it) is sufficient and less
risky than 180 degrees. Works with SO-8 too. With care, you can avoid
shorts to the groundplane, and if you don't want to have to exercise
care, put down some strips of Kapton tape onto the groundplane
beforehand, where required.
Huh, this is what I do. But I float the IC's above the ground plane
(on bypass caps for power pins) I never thought of putting
it right on the ground plane.

Hey here's a related question. What do people use if they want to stick
some IC or plastic package to the copper clad? Some type of
semi-permanent glue/ goop? Rubber cement?

Superglue or a glue gun.

Clean and scuff up the coppwr a bit first with a Scotchbrite pad.

But I'd rather solder.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The cork popped merrily, and Lord Peter rose to his feet.
"Bunter", he said, "I give you a toast. The triumph of Instinct over Reason"

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 2020-02-14 21:14, George Herold wrote:

On Thursday, February 13, 2020 at 6:23:40 AM UTC-5, Chris Jones wrote:
On 13/02/2020 07:58, rangerssuck wrote:
On Thursday, February 6, 2020 at 2:12:16 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:

I don't like dead bugging because the pin orders are always mirrored. So
I cut small snippets of wood, copperclad or whatever, and glue the
snippets and then the parts to larger copperclad. Then it's "living bug
style", still on top and the pin order is as in the datasheet.

For dead bugging with DIP packages, I often just bend the pins 180° so that I can stick the chip down face up. I sometimes cringe thinking about busted off pins, but in over 40 years of doing this, I've yet to have one break.

Bending the leads 90 degrees (so that the leadframe is all in one plane,
like it was before the manufacturer bent it) is sufficient and less
risky than 180 degrees. Works with SO-8 too. With care, you can avoid
shorts to the groundplane, and if you don't want to have to exercise
care, put down some strips of Kapton tape onto the groundplane
beforehand, where required.
Huh, this is what I do. But I float the IC's above the ground plane
(on bypass caps for power pins) I never thought of putting
it right on the ground plane.

Hey here's a related question. What do people use if they want to stick
some IC or plastic package to the copper clad? Some type of
semi-permanent glue/ goop? Rubber cement?

Gorilla brand cyanoacrylate. Breathe on the chip first (as though you
were cleaning your glasses) to accelerate the cure. Applying solder to
the copper nearby speeds it up as well.

TO-92s need a touch with a file to get rid of the ridge on top of the
package.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[Joerg]

On 2020-02-14 18:14, George Herold wrote:

On Thursday, February 13, 2020 at 6:23:40 AM UTC-5, Chris Jones wrote:
On 13/02/2020 07:58, rangerssuck wrote:
On Thursday, February 6, 2020 at 2:12:16 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:

I don't like dead bugging because the pin orders are always mirrored. So
I cut small snippets of wood, copperclad or whatever, and glue the
snippets and then the parts to larger copperclad. Then it's "living bug
style", still on top and the pin order is as in the datasheet.

For dead bugging with DIP packages, I often just bend the pins 180° so that I can stick the chip down face up. I sometimes cringe thinking about busted off pins, but in over 40 years of doing this, I've yet to have one break.

Bending the leads 90 degrees (so that the leadframe is all in one plane,
like it was before the manufacturer bent it) is sufficient and less
risky than 180 degrees. Works with SO-8 too. With care, you can avoid
shorts to the groundplane, and if you don't want to have to exercise
care, put down some strips of Kapton tape onto the groundplane
beforehand, where required.
Huh, this is what I do. But I float the IC's above the ground plane
(on bypass caps for power pins) I never thought of putting
it right on the ground plane.

Hey here's a related question. What do people use if they want to stick
some IC or plastic package to the copper clad? Some type of
semi-permanent glue/ goop? Rubber cement?

This:

https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-p4v5wfxev4/images/stencil/608x608/products/418/2066/ETFZ-0000-0264_2__55919.1528319348.jpg?c=2

Buy, eat, lick the wooden stick clean, scrub it with dish washing
liquid, let dry, saw into small chunks, glue down where you want the
ICs, drop of glue on top, plop IC there.

The downside is that this method isn't good for your waist line. But
it's delicious. I prefer the version with almond chunks in the chocolate
cover.

George H.

I certainly prefer the package markings to be face-up, because I have a
terrible memory and will lose the diagrams etc. and will want to know
which chip I used.

Same here. Plus then it matches the order on the schematic for ICs where
the CAD model has been pinned-out as-is.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2020-02-15, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote:

Buy, eat, lick the wooden stick clean, scrub it with dish washing
liquid, let dry, saw into small chunks, glue down where you want the
ICs, drop of glue on top, plop IC there.

Or you can buy the sticks from craft shops, catering suppliers, etc....
https://www.banggood.com/50Pcs-A-Bundle-of-Ice-Cream-Sticks-140-10-2-mm-Ecru-Popsicle-Sticks-p-1070856.html?gmcCountry=NZ&currency=NZD&createTmp=1&utm_source=googleshopping&utm_medium=cpc_bgs&utm_content=zouzou&utm_campaign=pla-nz-all-pc-0112&ad_id=394680833446&cur_warehouse=CN

--
Jasen.

 

On Saturday, 15 February 2020 21:32:47 UTC, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2020-02-15, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote:

Buy, eat, lick the wooden stick clean, scrub it with dish washing
liquid, let dry, saw into small chunks, glue down where you want the
ICs, drop of glue on top, plop IC there.

Or you can buy the sticks from craft shops, catering suppliers, etc....

No you can't, you have to eat the ice cream. Trust me.

 

On Sat, 15 Feb 2020 12:15:51 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
wrote:

On 2020-02-14 18:14, George Herold wrote:
On Thursday, February 13, 2020 at 6:23:40 AM UTC-5, Chris Jones wrote:
On 13/02/2020 07:58, rangerssuck wrote:
On Thursday, February 6, 2020 at 2:12:16 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:

I don't like dead bugging because the pin orders are always mirrored. So
I cut small snippets of wood, copperclad or whatever, and glue the
snippets and then the parts to larger copperclad. Then it's "living bug
style", still on top and the pin order is as in the datasheet.

For dead bugging with DIP packages, I often just bend the pins 180° so that I can stick the chip down face up. I sometimes cringe thinking about busted off pins, but in over 40 years of doing this, I've yet to have one break.

Bending the leads 90 degrees (so that the leadframe is all in one plane,
like it was before the manufacturer bent it) is sufficient and less
risky than 180 degrees. Works with SO-8 too. With care, you can avoid
shorts to the groundplane, and if you don't want to have to exercise
care, put down some strips of Kapton tape onto the groundplane
beforehand, where required.
Huh, this is what I do. But I float the IC's above the ground plane
(on bypass caps for power pins) I never thought of putting
it right on the ground plane.

Hey here's a related question. What do people use if they want to stick
some IC or plastic package to the copper clad? Some type of
semi-permanent glue/ goop? Rubber cement?


This:

https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-p4v5wfxev4/images/stencil/608x608/products/418/2066/ETFZ-0000-0264_2__55919.1528319348.jpg?c=2

Buy, eat, lick the wooden stick clean, scrub it with dish washing
liquid, let dry, saw into small chunks, glue down where you want the
ICs, drop of glue on top, plop IC there.

Good idea. Double-stick foam tape doesn't taste as good.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The cork popped merrily, and Lord Peter rose to his feet.
"Bunter", he said, "I give you a toast. The triumph of Instinct over Reason"

 

[Michael Terrell]

On Saturday, February 15, 2020 at 4:43:58 PM UTC-5, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

On Saturday, 15 February 2020 21:32:47 UTC, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2020-02-15, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote:

Buy, eat, lick the wooden stick clean, scrub it with dish washing
liquid, let dry, saw into small chunks, glue down where you want the
ICs, drop of glue on top, plop IC there.

Or you can buy the sticks from craft shops, catering suppliers, etc....

No you can't, you have to eat the ice cream. Trust me.

Not this time. You need to cut back on the Catnip!

 

[John Miles, KE5FX]

On Friday, February 14, 2020 at 6:14:27 PM UTC-8, George Herold wrote:

Hey here's a related question. What do people use if they want to stick
some IC or plastic package to the copper clad? Some type of
semi-permanent glue/ goop? Rubber cement?

Usually there's at least one ground pin that you can solder directly to
the copper. It'll hold the part adequately while you solder the rest of
the pins.

Cyanoacrylate is fine for the rest, but it doesn't give you much control
over how, when, and where it cures. 5-minute epoxy is OK for encapsulating
your more delicate dead-bug creations, but not very useful during
construction. Lately I've been using a UV cure adhesive, specifically a
brand called Bondic. It is largely useless with the wimpy LED that comes
with the starter kit. Much more effective if you cure it with a 405 nm
laser pointer.

The latter can be had on eBay for about $3 each in lots of 10. Their output
power was supposed to be 5 mW, but the ones they sent me measured anywhere
from 15 to 100 mW. Order now from dangerousstufffromchina.com and receive
a free 2019-nCoV sample while supplies last!

I certainly prefer the package markings to be face-up, because I have a
terrible memory and will lose the diagrams etc. and will want to know
which chip I used.

You can use a fine-tip marker to write the pin numbers on the board next to
the part. Helpful with QFNs, especially.

-- john, KE5FX

 

On Sun, 16 Feb 2020 15:41:30 -0800 (PST), "John Miles, KE5FX"
<jmiles@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, February 14, 2020 at 6:14:27 PM UTC-8, George Herold wrote:
Hey here's a related question. What do people use if they want to stick
some IC or plastic package to the copper clad? Some type of
semi-permanent glue/ goop? Rubber cement?

Usually there's at least one ground pin that you can solder directly to
the copper. It'll hold the part adequately while you solder the rest of
the pins.

Cyanoacrylate is fine for the rest, but it doesn't give you much control
over how, when, and where it cures. 5-minute epoxy is OK for encapsulating
your more delicate dead-bug creations, but not very useful during
construction. Lately I've been using a UV cure adhesive, specifically a
brand called Bondic. It is largely useless with the wimpy LED that comes
with the starter kit. Much more effective if you cure it with a 405 nm
laser pointer.

The latter can be had on eBay for about $3 each in lots of 10. Their output
power was supposed to be 5 mW, but the ones they sent me measured anywhere
from 15 to 100 mW. Order now from dangerousstufffromchina.com and receive
a free 2019-nCoV sample while supplies last!

Who needs ICBMs when they can use the USPS for free?



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The cork popped merrily, and Lord Peter rose to his feet.
"Bunter", he said, "I give you a toast. The triumph of Instinct over Reason"

 

[Rich S]

On Sunday, February 16, 2020 at 6:41:35 PM UTC-5, John Miles, KE5FX wrote:

On Friday, February 14, 2020 at 6:14:27 PM UTC-8, George Herold wrote:
Hey here's a related question. What do people use if they want to stick
some IC or plastic package to the copper clad? Some type of
semi-permanent glue/ goop? Rubber cement?

Usually there's at least one ground pin that you can solder directly to
the copper. It'll hold the part adequately while you solder the rest of
the pins.

Cyanoacrylate is fine for the rest, but it doesn't give you much control
over how, when, and where it cures. 5-minute epoxy is OK for encapsulating
your more delicate dead-bug creations, but not very useful during
construction. Lately I've been using a UV cure adhesive, specifically a
brand called Bondic. It is largely useless with the wimpy LED that comes
with the starter kit. Much more effective if you cure it with a 405 nm
laser pointer.

The latter can be had on eBay for about $3 each in lots of 10. Their output
power was supposed to be 5 mW, but the ones they sent me measured anywhere
from 15 to 100 mW. Order now from dangerousstufffromchina.com and receive
a free 2019-nCoV sample while supplies last!

I certainly prefer the package markings to be face-up, because I have a
terrible memory and will lose the diagrams etc. and will want to know
which chip I used.

You can use a fine-tip marker to write the pin numbers on the board next to
the part. Helpful with QFNs, especially.

-- john, KE5FX

Years back when a 405nm diode laser was way outside my budget (or any diode laser, if they existed), and uv-cure epoxy just came on the market, i made a poor-man's curing tool with a bug lamp inside a Al-foil-lined box. Bug lamp = U-shaped fluorescent lamp bulb, without the phosphor. Worked fine if you gave it a few minutes per cure.

 

On Monday, 17 February 2020 01:39:28 UTC, Rich S wrote:

On Sunday, February 16, 2020 at 6:41:35 PM UTC-5, John Miles, KE5FX wrote:

Cyanoacrylate is fine for the rest, but it doesn't give you much control
over how, when, and where it cures. 5-minute epoxy is OK for encapsulating
your more delicate dead-bug creations, but not very useful during
construction. Lately I've been using a UV cure adhesive, specifically a
brand called Bondic. It is largely useless with the wimpy LED that comes
with the starter kit. Much more effective if you cure it with a 405 nm
laser pointer.

The latter can be had on eBay for about $3 each in lots of 10. Their output
power was supposed to be 5 mW, but the ones they sent me measured anywhere
from 15 to 100 mW. Order now from dangerousstufffromchina.com and receive
a free 2019-nCoV sample while supplies last!

I certainly prefer the package markings to be face-up, because I have a
terrible memory and will lose the diagrams etc. and will want to know
which chip I used.

You can use a fine-tip marker to write the pin numbers on the board next to
the part. Helpful with QFNs, especially.

Years back when a 405nm diode laser was way outside my budget (or any diode laser, if they existed), and uv-cure epoxy just came on the market, i made a poor-man's curing tool with a bug lamp inside a Al-foil-lined box. Bug lamp = U-shaped fluorescent lamp bulb, without the phosphor. Worked fine if you gave it a few minutes per cure.

I expect a simple carbon arc would also work.


NT

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 9/2/20 8:34 am, tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:

On Thursday, 6 February 2020 21:25:50 UTC, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 7/2/20 3:11 am, George Herold wrote:
On Wednesday, February 5, 2020 at 8:35:31 PM UTC-5, Clifford Heath wrote:

Thanks Clifford. I don't like those PCB's with grids of holes for
prototyping.. (i get lost flipping it over.) I still will use my
white proto push board to test some simple (slow) thing.

I've wasted too many hours debugging those plug-in things, and you can't
just drag them from a storage box and expect things to work.

The SMD components solder on top of the grid board, between the pads. I
rarely turn one over.

CH

They made sense decades ago when removing parts for re-use was necessary. Now having to take your products apart makes no sense.

I don't make products in my home lab.

 

[Tom Del Rosso]

Phil Hobbs wrote:

The dead-bug proto I posted upthread is a triple power supply plus
two-phase lock-in amplifier that I used in the transcutaneous blood
glucose POC that I talked about here a few weeks ago.

I don't see it in this thread.

I posted a more polished version of that story at
https://electrooptical.net/News> (Third entry down).

Are those 6 test points, at the top right, for the prototype or for the
product?

 

[Tom Del Rosso]

Tom Del Rosso wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:

I posted a more polished version of that story at
https://electrooptical.net/News> (Third entry down).

Are those 6 test points, at the top right, for the prototype or for
the product?

Damn. Sorry I was looking at the TDR schematic. But I'm still curious
about that.

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 2020-02-27 11:13, Tom Del Rosso wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:

The dead-bug proto I posted upthread is a triple power supply plus
two-phase lock-in amplifier that I used in the transcutaneous blood
glucose POC that I talked about here a few weeks ago.

I don't see it in this thread.

Posted on Feb 5th, 17:58. The picture is at
<https://electrooptical.net/www/protos/PowerServoDemodBox01.jpg>

I posted a more polished version of that story at
https://electrooptical.net/News> (Third entry down).

Are those 6 test points, at the top right, for the prototype or for the
product?

Between the transmission line segments? Those are there to model the
probe's connection to the board, so that we could look at how long the
delay line section should be to make sure there were no interfering
reflections during the measurement time.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com