Help with wiring colors on old headphones

[FedUpLurker]

"Patrick" <invalid@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9EE57F121FAB96AD265@69.16.185.252...

I have some vinatge headphones (Sennheiser HD424) and want to attach a new
plug.

Which color wires are the positive ones?

The colors in one of the leads are red & blue and in the other lead black
&
yellow. (No wire is used as screening - there's just two wires in each
lead.)

You've certainly set the cat amongst the pidgeons.
It's getting right leary in here. So a search topic for you:
How do barn owls locate prey just by listening?

Once you've done a search on that relevant subject:
Spatial hearing (a collection of files to enjoy)
https://mustelid.physiol.ox.ac.uk/drupal/?q=spatial_hearing

Acoustic Holography (A bit of engineering)
http://www.lmsintl.com/acoustic-holography

Now some more subjects for you to type into the
search engine of your choice:

Psychoacoustics
Cochlear nuclei
Neural action potentials.
Auditory masking
Missing fundamental
Hypersonic effect
Diana Deutsch
Dr. Daniel J. Levitin
Sound localization by the human auditory system
Lateral information
Interaural time differences
Phase delays
Group delays
Parallel processing pathways in the brain
Axons of the auditory nerve

I'll check back in a week or so.
PS. Ever heard of Q-Sound?

 

[Charles]

You are what you are.
Stick it to the others.
They are not what you are.
Stick it up their arse.

 

[Tim Wescott]

On 05/14/2011 05:31 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

"Tim Wescott"

"If the click seems to come from right inside your head - game over".

What more do you need? Phil's given you a test to see if the phasing is
correct, can you not figure it out, or what to do if the click seems to
come from your right or your left?


** If both ear phones work but are wired out of phase, the AA cell click
test produces a sound that seems to be originating outside the head on both
sides. Mono speech or music sounds much the same.

The effect is far MORE pronounced than with typical stereo speakers in a
room.

The OP demonstrates his a monumental ignorance of headphones, hi-fi sound,
usenet etiquette and common sense.

Only tangentially related, and mostly useless:

Amateur radio folks like building direct conversion receivers (i.e., mix
down to baseband). They're simple, hence little, and they work pretty
well. Their biggest problem is that they have no audio image rejection
at all -- listening with a 7040kHz oscillator, you'll hear a signal at
7040.5 just the same as one at 7039.5.

You can get around this by making a so-called "phasing" receiver
(basically an image-reject downconverter, but ham radio has its own
terminology), but then you're back to something complex.

If you build an I/Q downconverter, and amplify each channel to a
headphone channel, then apparently you get a spatial perception of the
tones -- upper side tones sound like they're coming from a different
point in space than lower side tones, and (presumably due to the phase
shift in the amplifiers, I don't know) high and low tones do as well.
It's claimed that this makes it easier to use for morse code reception.

I've always thought that was interesting, but haven't tried it.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

 

[Phil Allison]

"David Looser"

What *was* being talked about was connecting a mono signal across tip and
ring, thus putting the two transducers in series.

** This is sometimes deliberately done with the headphone sockets fitted to
small ( mono) mixing desks and disco mixers.

It means the internal amplifier, often just an op-amp, sees a load of four
times the value it would if wired in parallel and that fitting a mono plug
in the socket does not create a short.


.... Phil

 

[spamtrap1888]

On May 16, 2:38 pm, "FedUpLurker" <as...@go.away> wrote:

"Patrick" <inva...@invalid.com> wrote in message

news:Xns9EE57F121FAB96AD265@69.16.185.252...

I have some vinatge headphones (Sennheiser HD424) and want to attach a new
plug.

Which color wires are the positive ones?

The colors in one of the leads are red & blue and in the other lead black
&
yellow.  (No wire is used as screening - there's just two wires in each
lead.)

You've certainly set the cat amongst the pidgeons.
It's getting right leary in here. So a search topic for you:
How do barn owls locate prey just by listening?

Once you've done a search on that relevant subject:
Spatial hearing (a collection of files to enjoy)https://mustelid.physiol.ox.ac.uk/drupal/?q=spatial_hearing

Acoustic Holography (A bit of engineering)http://www.lmsintl.com/acoustic-holography

Now some more subjects for you to type into the
search engine of your choice:

Psychoacoustics
Cochlear nuclei
Neural action potentials.
Auditory masking
Missing fundamental
Hypersonic effect
Diana Deutsch
Dr. Daniel J. Levitin
Sound localization by the human auditory system
Lateral information
Interaural time differences
Phase delays
Group delays
Parallel processing pathways in the brain
Axons of the auditory nerve

I'll check back in a week or so.
PS. Ever heard of Q-Sound?

Learn a bit about Kemar Manikin here:
http://www.eartunes.com/if/audiology-inf-107.shtml

 

[Rich Grise]

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 05/14/2011 05:31 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
"Tim Wescott"

"If the click seems to come from right inside your head - game over".

What more do you need? Phil's given you a test to see if the phasing is
correct, can you not figure it out, or what to do if the click seems to
come from your right or your left?

** If both ear phones work but are wired out of phase, the AA cell click
test produces a sound that seems to be originating outside the head on
both sides. Mono speech or music sounds much the same.

The effect is far MORE pronounced than with typical stereo speakers in a
room.

The OP demonstrates his a monumental ignorance of headphones, hi-fi
sound, usenet etiquette and common sense.

Only tangentially related, and mostly useless:

Amateur radio folks like building direct conversion receivers (i.e., mix
down to baseband). They're simple, hence little, and they work pretty
well. Their biggest problem is that they have no audio image rejection
at all -- listening with a 7040kHz oscillator, you'll hear a signal at
7040.5 just the same as one at 7039.5.

That's the _second_ biggest problem - the biggest is that they're an

unlicensed transmitter.

Hope This Helps!
Rich

 

[Phil Allison]

"Rich Grise"

Tim Wescott wrote:

Amateur radio folks like building direct conversion receivers (i.e., mix
down to baseband). They're simple, hence little, and they work pretty
well. Their biggest problem is that they have no audio image rejection
at all -- listening with a 7040kHz oscillator, you'll hear a signal at
7040.5 just the same as one at 7039.5.

That's the _second_ biggest problem - the biggest is that they're an
unlicensed transmitter.

** Giant HUH ??

Ham radio operators are * licensed * uses of the band from 7MHz to 7.3
Hz - aka the 40 metre band.

In an case, spurious emissions from a flea powered local oscillator is not a
transmitter requiring a licence.

Wot a jerkoff.


...... Phil

 

[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]

Patrick wrote:

I have some vinatge headphones (Sennheiser HD424) and want to attach a new
plug.

Which color wires are the positive ones?

The colors in one of the leads are red & blue and in the other lead black
&
yellow. (No wire is used as screening - there's just two wires in each
lead.)

If they are the standard voice coil types, put them in front of a stereo
speaker and drive the amp with a sine wave. The headphone 'speakers' will
act as microphones. Use an oscilloscope on the pairs of leads to determine
phasing.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailtoaul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Will code for food.

 

[John KD5YI]

On 5/16/2011 10:17 PM, Rich Grise wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:
On 05/14/2011 05:31 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
"Tim Wescott"

"If the click seems to come from right inside your head - game over".

What more do you need? Phil's given you a test to see if the phasing is
correct, can you not figure it out, or what to do if the click seems to
come from your right or your left?

** If both ear phones work but are wired out of phase, the AA cell click
test produces a sound that seems to be originating outside the head on
both sides. Mono speech or music sounds much the same.

The effect is far MORE pronounced than with typical stereo speakers in a
room.

The OP demonstrates his a monumental ignorance of headphones, hi-fi
sound, usenet etiquette and common sense.

Only tangentially related, and mostly useless:

Amateur radio folks like building direct conversion receivers (i.e., mix
down to baseband). They're simple, hence little, and they work pretty
well. Their biggest problem is that they have no audio image rejection
at all -- listening with a 7040kHz oscillator, you'll hear a signal at
7040.5 just the same as one at 7039.5.

That's the _second_ biggest problem - the biggest is that they're an
unlicensed transmitter.

Hope This Helps!
Rich

No, it doesn't help and is misleading, Rich. 7040kHz is an amateur
frequency. So, it is legal for "Amateur radio folks" as Tim indicated.

John

 

[Ian Jackson]

In message <iqst24$fk7$1@dont-email.me>, John KD5YI
<sophi.2@invalid.org> writes

On 5/16/2011 10:17 PM, Rich Grise wrote:
Tim Wescott wrote:
On 05/14/2011 05:31 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
"Tim Wescott"

"If the click seems to come from right inside your head - game over".

What more do you need? Phil's given you a test to see if the phasing is
correct, can you not figure it out, or what to do if the click seems to
come from your right or your left?

** If both ear phones work but are wired out of phase, the AA cell click
test produces a sound that seems to be originating outside the head on
both sides. Mono speech or music sounds much the same.

The effect is far MORE pronounced than with typical stereo speakers in a
room.

The OP demonstrates his a monumental ignorance of headphones, hi-fi
sound, usenet etiquette and common sense.

Only tangentially related, and mostly useless:

Amateur radio folks like building direct conversion receivers (i.e., mix
down to baseband). They're simple, hence little, and they work pretty
well. Their biggest problem is that they have no audio image rejection
at all -- listening with a 7040kHz oscillator, you'll hear a signal at
7040.5 just the same as one at 7039.5.

That's the _second_ biggest problem - the biggest is that they're an
unlicensed transmitter.

Hope This Helps!
Rich


No, it doesn't help and is misleading, Rich. 7040kHz is an amateur
frequency. So, it is legal for "Amateur radio folks" as Tim indicated.

Even licensed radio amateurs don't want the local oscillator of a

direct-conversion receiver to radiated. The design of the receiver
usually ensures that any radiation is negligible.

Many people don't realise that any superheterodyne receiver is
potentially capable of radiating. Just try listening to the same station
on two cheap FM receivers in the same room, and you'll probably see what
I mean.
--
Ian

 

[Ian Jackson]

In message <vPadnf8mzLS9c0zQnZ2dnUVZ_uydnZ2d@posted.isomediainc>, Paul
Hovnanian P.E. <paul@hovnanian.com> writes

Patrick wrote:

I have some vinatge headphones (Sennheiser HD424) and want to attach a new
plug.

Which color wires are the positive ones?

The colors in one of the leads are red & blue and in the other lead black
&
yellow. (No wire is used as screening - there's just two wires in each
lead.)

If they are the standard voice coil types, put them in front of a stereo
speaker and drive the amp with a sine wave. The headphone 'speakers' will
act as microphones. Use an oscilloscope on the pairs of leads to determine
phasing.

Is there going to be a prize for suggesting the most obscure (but

effective) way of determining the phasing?
--
Ian

 

On Mon, 16 May 2011 11:46:54 +0100, Martin Brown
<|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:

On this topic did anyone else see the NHK broadcast a few months back
about a digital version of binaural recording that alters the phase
frequency response of the high end of close miked material to extend the
stereo sound stage vertically. The trick works by tweaking the frequency
phase relationship to match what the ear expects from a wave incident at
a given angle. It just sounded odd on loudspeakers.

Was this some kind of dummy head recording or some kind of ambisonics
(Gerzon) WXYZ recording ?

 

On Sun, 15 May 2011 10:31:35 +1000, "Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au>
wrote:

** If both ear phones work but are wired out of phase, the AA cell click
test produces a sound that seems to be originating outside the head on both
sides. Mono speech or music sounds much the same.

The effect is far MORE pronounced than with typical stereo speakers in a
room.

Puking two speakers with front panels against each other is a quite
easy way to check polarity. If the polarity is correct, you will hear
some low frequency sounds emitted from the combination. If the
polarity is wrong, you will hear only mid- and high pitch sounds,
since the low frequency air is moving between the cones of the
speakers.

With headphones, you either get "in head" or unrealistic sound
depending on the phasing of headphones.

Sennheiser did the wiring correctly by keeping all four wires separate
and connected to a 4 pin DIN plug and by adding a 4 pin DIN to 6.35 mm
plug adaptor.

As a kid, I was really pissed of by the convention of using common
returns in headphones. I was testing frequency diversity reception of
the same broadcast programs on two different shortwave bands with two
receivers. Unfortunately, the other receiver was of AC/DC type with
the full 220 Vac in the chassis. Thus I had to rewire the phones so
that one side could (potentially) siting on 220 Vac, and the other
side sitting close to ground potential.

After this alteration, I had no problems with this arrangement.

No problems, no problems, no problems

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <93dstcFeenU1@mid.individual.net>,
Phil Allison <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote:

"David Looser"

What *was* being talked about was connecting a mono signal across tip
and ring, thus putting the two transducers in series.


** This is sometimes deliberately done with the headphone sockets fitted
to small ( mono) mixing desks and disco mixers.

It means the internal amplifier, often just an op-amp, sees a load of
four times the value it would if wired in parallel and that fitting a
mono plug in the socket does not create a short.

I suppose it's too much to expect an apology for the earlier crap you
wrote - given you are so quick to jump down others throats if they make
one?

--
*If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving definitely isn't for you *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Martin Brown]

On 17/05/2011 10:11, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

On Mon, 16 May 2011 11:46:54 +0100, Martin Brown
|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:

On this topic did anyone else see the NHK broadcast a few months back
about a digital version of binaural recording that alters the phase
frequency response of the high end of close miked material to extend the
stereo sound stage vertically. The trick works by tweaking the frequency
phase relationship to match what the ear expects from a wave incident at
a given angle. It just sounded odd on loudspeakers.

Was this some kind of dummy head recording or some kind of ambisonics
(Gerzon) WXYZ recording ?

Digital alteration of the phase and amplitude response with frequency
applicable only to sounds with reasonably complex harmonic content.

The demo was a church bell that was made to ring up then down on axis,
left then right as in a ping pong stereo demo and finally at the corners
of a rectangle. It just sounded odd on loudspeakers.

If my memory serves I think they said that sounds coming from above have
slightly more high frequency components and a phase lead. The adjustment
fools the brain into putting the sound where it "belongs".

Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[Phil Allison]

"Ian Jackson"

Is there going to be a prize for suggesting the most obscure (but
effective) way of determining the phasing?

** I got one:

Insert a pin through a hole in the earphone grille and let it rest loosely
the diaphragm.

Use the AA cell test.

One polarity will evict the pin.


..... Phil

 

[Ian Jackson]

In message <93evnpFub7U1@mid.individual.net>, Phil Allison
<phil_a@tpg.com.au> writes

"Ian Jackson"

Is there going to be a prize for suggesting the most obscure (but
effective) way of determining the phasing?


** I got one:

Insert a pin through a hole in the earphone grille and let it rest loosely
the diaphragm.

Use the AA cell test.

One polarity will evict the pin.

I reckon that one's certainly for the shortlist for the prize.

Of course, the principle is not new. You can test loudspeakers with a
battery, and watch which way the cone kicks. That would be difficult to
do with headphones, and 'kicking the pin out' overcomes this problem.
--
Ian

 

[Arny Krueger]

"Rich Grise" <richg@example.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:iqspd8$qgu$2@dont-email.me

Tim Wescott wrote:
On 05/14/2011 05:31 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
"Tim Wescott"

"If the click seems to come from right inside your
head - game over".

What more do you need? Phil's given you a test to see
if the phasing is correct, can you not figure it out,
or what to do if the click seems to come from your
right or your left?

** If both ear phones work but are wired out of phase,
the AA cell click test produces a sound that seems to
be originating outside the head on both sides. Mono
speech or music sounds much the same.

The effect is far MORE pronounced than with typical
stereo speakers in a room.

The OP demonstrates his a monumental ignorance of
headphones, hi-fi sound, usenet etiquette and common
sense.

Only tangentially related, and mostly useless:

Amateur radio folks like building direct conversion
receivers (i.e., mix down to baseband). They're simple,
hence little, and they work pretty well. Their biggest
problem is that they have no audio image rejection at
all -- listening with a 7040kHz oscillator, you'll hear
a signal at 7040.5 just the same as one at 7039.5.

That's the _second_ biggest problem - the biggest is that
they're an unlicensed transmitter.

Only if badly designed. Ever hear of balanced mixers?

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 17 May 2011 08:17:49 +0100, Ian Jackson
<ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote:

Is there going to be a prize for suggesting the most obscure (but
effective) way of determining the phasing?

Plug in both earphones or speakers with random wiring and play
something in stereo. If it sounds right, you're done. If the
orchestra sounds like a ping pong game, switch polarity on one
earphone or speaker. If you can't tell the difference, replace the
listener and try again. I hate to admit it, but I've done it this way
a few times. I'll accept my price in US dollars.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[William Sommerwerck]

"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:6h35t65rrft0psfcf3m0r56vvhbin09dsj@4ax.com...

On Tue, 17 May 2011 08:17:49 +0100, Ian Jackson
ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote:

Is there going to be a prize for suggesting the most obscure (but
effective) way of determining the phasing?

Plug in both earphones or speakers with random wiring and play
something in stereo. If it sounds right, you're done. If the
orchestra sounds like a ping pong game, switch polarity on one
earphone or speaker. If you can't tell the difference, replace the
listener and try again. I hate to admit it, but I've done it this way
a few times. I'll accept my price in US dollars.

I'm reminded of a 52-year-old article in "Popular Electronics" about
building your own stereo headphones. After assembling them and putting them
on, you were instructed to phase one driver for the best bass.

Incredible.