HDMI in US and in EU

[Lasse Langwadt Christense]

lørdag den 12. oktober 2019 kl. 01.08.10 UTC+2 skrev Rick C:

On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 4:53:19 PM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
fredag den 11. oktober 2019 kl. 22.44.44 UTC+2 skrev Rick C:

I seem to recall some EU kid was made a criminal by US law for writing a DVD driver for Linux or something similar. Was he ever arrested?


DVD Jon ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Lech_Johansen

I suppose that is who I am misremembering. What I thought I remembered was that he was ok in his country, then came to the US for a conference or similar and was nabbed by Federal agents. I expect I'm getting two separate issues confused.

A Russia guy was arrested at a convention in Las Vegas for making a program
that decrypted PDF files

https://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/18/business/technology-us-arrests-russian-cryptographer-as-copyright-violator.html

I also remember reading about Kevin Mitnick who seemingly was overly prosecuted in many ways including spending time in solitary confinement because law enforcement officials convinced a judge that he had the ability to "start a nuclear war by whistling into a pay phone".

Dear God, this wouldn't make a movie or book because it is too unbelievable. It just goes to show there are a lot of SOBs in the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz

killed himself after being arrested and threatened with 35 years in prison for mass downloading academic journals

 

[Rick C]

On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 4:53:19 PM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

fredag den 11. oktober 2019 kl. 22.44.44 UTC+2 skrev Rick C:

I seem to recall some EU kid was made a criminal by US law for writing a DVD driver for Linux or something similar. Was he ever arrested?


DVD Jon ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Lech_Johansen

I suppose that is who I am misremembering. What I thought I remembered was that he was ok in his country, then came to the US for a conference or similar and was nabbed by Federal agents. I expect I'm getting two separate issues confused.

I also remember reading about Kevin Mitnick who seemingly was overly prosecuted in many ways including spending time in solitary confinement because law enforcement officials convinced a judge that he had the ability to "start a nuclear war by whistling into a pay phone".

Dear God, this wouldn't make a movie or book because it is too unbelievable.. It just goes to show there are a lot of SOBs in the world.

--

Rick C.

++ Get 2,000 miles of free Supercharging
++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 5/10/2019 4:01 am, Cameo wrote:

On my recent move to Europe I also shipped an older Samsung LCD monitor
that I've been using as an external display with my laptop, using HDMI
connection. I also used it as a TV display via another HDMI connection
to a set top box. It was a very convenient setup, needing only a switch
of the video source.

I figured I could use that monitor in Europe, as HDMI standards should
be the same. To my disappointment though, the monitor would not display
the TV program from the set top box. Instead I get an error message that
says something about an unsupported mode. What mode is that? I know that
the TV standards are different, but I thought HDMI display makes it a
non-issue. Am I wrong?

There is still a frame rate.

I have an old Sharp LCD monitor. For some modes, it displays a stable
picture, overlayed with a panel saying that the mode is not supported.
If the panel were not there, I presume I'd have a usable picture.

I think some monitors are implemented in a way that is just
bloody-minded, and perhaps related to a desire to allow higher pricing
for other monitors produced by the same manufacturer, and/or to prevent
grey imports.

In my experience electronics gear is more expensive in Europe than the
USA. You may have been caught up in that.

Sylvia.

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christense]

lørdag den 12. oktober 2019 kl. 01.47.00 UTC+2 skrev Rick C:

On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 7:25:51 PM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
lørdag den 12. oktober 2019 kl. 01.08.10 UTC+2 skrev Rick C:
On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 4:53:19 PM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
fredag den 11. oktober 2019 kl. 22.44.44 UTC+2 skrev Rick C:

I seem to recall some EU kid was made a criminal by US law for writing a DVD driver for Linux or something similar. Was he ever arrested?


DVD Jon ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Lech_Johansen

I suppose that is who I am misremembering. What I thought I remembered was that he was ok in his country, then came to the US for a conference or similar and was nabbed by Federal agents. I expect I'm getting two separate issues confused.


A Russia guy was arrested at a convention in Las Vegas for making a program
that decrypted PDF files

https://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/18/business/technology-us-arrests-russian-cryptographer-as-copyright-violator.html


I also remember reading about Kevin Mitnick who seemingly was overly prosecuted in many ways including spending time in solitary confinement because law enforcement officials convinced a judge that he had the ability to "start a nuclear war by whistling into a pay phone".

Dear God, this wouldn't make a movie or book because it is too unbelievable. It just goes to show there are a lot of SOBs in the world.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz

killed himself after being arrested and threatened with 35 years in prison for mass downloading academic journals

If anyone were to find the many, relatively trivial crimes I have committed I would get life in prison. How have we gotten so messed up?

as in the Aaron Swartz case, they made charges for 35years and offered
a deal for 6 months ...

going to court and proving a case is hard work, easier to make people
plead guilty in exchange for not risking life in prison

 

[Rick C]

On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 7:25:51 PM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

lørdag den 12. oktober 2019 kl. 01.08.10 UTC+2 skrev Rick C:
On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 4:53:19 PM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
fredag den 11. oktober 2019 kl. 22.44.44 UTC+2 skrev Rick C:

I seem to recall some EU kid was made a criminal by US law for writing a DVD driver for Linux or something similar. Was he ever arrested?


DVD Jon ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Lech_Johansen

I suppose that is who I am misremembering. What I thought I remembered was that he was ok in his country, then came to the US for a conference or similar and was nabbed by Federal agents. I expect I'm getting two separate issues confused.


A Russia guy was arrested at a convention in Las Vegas for making a program
that decrypted PDF files

https://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/18/business/technology-us-arrests-russian-cryptographer-as-copyright-violator.html


I also remember reading about Kevin Mitnick who seemingly was overly prosecuted in many ways including spending time in solitary confinement because law enforcement officials convinced a judge that he had the ability to "start a nuclear war by whistling into a pay phone".

Dear God, this wouldn't make a movie or book because it is too unbelievable. It just goes to show there are a lot of SOBs in the world.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz

killed himself after being arrested and threatened with 35 years in prison for mass downloading academic journals

If anyone were to find the many, relatively trivial crimes I have committed I would get life in prison. How have we gotten so messed up?

Wait, don't tell me, I know this one. It's because commercial interests run this country, not the citizens.

--

Rick C.

--- Get 2,000 miles of free Supercharging
--- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Cameo]

On 10/11/2019 9:57 PM, Martin Brown wrote:

On 11/10/2019 20:48, Cameo wrote:
On 10/10/2019 7:21 PM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in
news:qnnok9$8vq$1@dont-email.me:

On 10/10/2019 7:50 AM, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2019-10-09, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote:
On 10/9/2019 7:04 AM, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2019-10-08, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote:
On 10/8/2019 12:58 PM, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

I don't know why you're talking about CRT TVs, when I
specifically mentioned LCD monitor in my original post. Just
so there is no more misunderstanding about which Samsung model
it is, here is a link for it:

https://www.samsung.com/us/business/support/owners/product/2333
hd-series-2333hd/

the "driver" constains a registry entry

HKR,"MODES\1920,1080",Mode1,,"30-81,56-75,+,+"

if I'm reading that correctly that means it does 30-81 kHz
horizontal and 56-75 Hz vertical.

Which explains why it's not working with a PAL source.

Wow! Where did you find the driver code?

I followd that link there was an windows driver which I
downloaded and opened with file roller (kind of like winzip but
for linux).

File roller found that the driver file contained among other
things an ".inf" file. I opened that with a text editor, inside
the inf file was that line. (and a load of other stuff)

In any case, the registry entry would only play a role when
Windows screen is output on that monitor

yes, but it tells windows what it is allowed to send to the
monitor.

and not when the monitor is connected directly to the PAL
set-top box via HDMI cable. And THAT's where my  problem is.

I'm guessing that samsung tells windows not to send less than
56Hz to to the monitor becase the monitor can't go slow enough,
they could be making arbitrary restrictions just to be assholes,
but my guess is that those numbers bear a close relation to the
practical sync rate limits for that monitor, and your experience
with trying to feed PAL and NTSC signals to it seem to confirm
that.

I think you're right.

   Yeah.  I think the TV can do it, but the maker locks it out so that
euro folks buy euro TVs and not a cheaper US TV even though it could
do the job.  It is not about them not being able to do it, it is
about marketing.  Also it is not about HDMI either.

   Take a look at this discussion:

https://expatriates.stackexchange.com/questions/664/do-differences-
between-ntsc-and-pal-matter-with-modern-tvs

The regionalized DVD issue also crossed my mind as applicable analogy
in the PAL/NTSC case. Another similar marketing ploy is perpetrated by
the cell phone industry when they disable certain frequency bands to
prevent their phones being used on a competitor's network. Their
motivation in disabling the built-in FM radios is not as clear to me
though. Seems to me that EU is more pro-consumer in a lot of these
areas than the US is.

EU folk also quite like watching US DVDs so you might be in luck trying
to find hacks to make NTSC frame rates work with local TVs.

NASA came to Tottenham Court Road in London to get its DVD players
chipped and made region free for the ISS. Insane to do anything else.
Many supermarket models can be chipped with relative ease.

The expression "chipped" sounds very British to me and never heard it in
the US. Explain what is involved in chipping, please.

 

[Cameo]

On 10/12/2019 2:13 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:

On 5/10/2019 4:01 am, Cameo wrote:
On my recent move to Europe I also shipped an older Samsung LCD
monitor that I've been using as an external display with my laptop,
using HDMI connection. I also used it as a TV display via another HDMI
connection to a set top box. It was a very convenient setup, needing
only a switch of the video source.

I figured I could use that monitor in Europe, as HDMI standards should
be the same. To my disappointment though, the monitor would not
display the TV program from the set top box. Instead I get an error
message that says something about an unsupported mode. What mode is
that? I know that the TV standards are different, but I thought HDMI
display makes it a non-issue. Am I wrong?

There is still a frame rate.

I have an old Sharp LCD monitor. For some modes, it displays a stable
picture, overlayed with a panel saying that the mode is not supported.
If the panel were not there, I presume I'd have a usable picture.

I think some monitors are implemented in a way that is just
bloody-minded, and perhaps related to a desire to allow higher pricing
for other monitors produced by the same manufacturer, and/or to prevent
grey imports.

In my experience electronics gear is more expensive in Europe than the
USA. You may have been caught up in that.

Sylvia.

You may be right, but I think it is due to generally higher taxes in EU
than in US. But then, prescription drugs are more expensive in the US,
so maybe for some people it balances out.

 

Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in
news:qns6d7$c3e$1@dont-email.me:

On 10/11/2019 9:57 PM, Martin Brown wrote:
On 11/10/2019 20:48, Cameo wrote:
On 10/10/2019 7:21 PM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org
wrote:
Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in
news:qnnok9$8vq$1@dont-email.me:

On 10/10/2019 7:50 AM, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2019-10-09, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote:
On 10/9/2019 7:04 AM, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2019-10-08, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote:
On 10/8/2019 12:58 PM, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

I don't know why you're talking about CRT TVs, when I
specifically mentioned LCD monitor in my original post.
Just so there is no more misunderstanding about which
Samsung model it is, here is a link for it:

https://www.samsung.com/us/business/support/owners/product/
2333 hd-series-2333hd/

the "driver" constains a registry entry

HKR,"MODES\1920,1080",Mode1,,"30-81,56-75,+,+"

if I'm reading that correctly that means it does 30-81 kHz
horizontal and 56-75 Hz vertical.

Which explains why it's not working with a PAL source.

Wow! Where did you find the driver code?

I followd that link there was an windows driver which I
downloaded and opened with file roller (kind of like winzip
but for linux).

File roller found that the driver file contained among other
things an ".inf" file. I opened that with a text editor,
inside the inf file was that line. (and a load of other
stuff)

In any case, the registry entry would only play a role when
Windows screen is output on that monitor

yes, but it tells windows what it is allowed to send to the
monitor.

and not when the monitor is connected directly to the PAL
set-top box via HDMI cable. And THAT's where my  problem is.

I'm guessing that samsung tells windows not to send less than
56Hz to to the monitor becase the monitor can't go slow
enough, they could be making arbitrary restrictions just to
be assholes, but my guess is that those numbers bear a close
relation to the practical sync rate limits for that monitor,
and your experience with trying to feed PAL and NTSC signals
to it seem to confirm that.

I think you're right.

   Yeah.  I think the TV can do it, but the maker locks it out
so that euro folks buy euro TVs and not a cheaper US TV even
though it could do the job.  It is not about them not being
able to do it, it is about marketing.  Also it is not about
HDMI either.

   Take a look at this discussion:

https://expatriates.stackexchange.com/questions/664/do-differen
ces- between-ntsc-and-pal-matter-with-modern-tvs

The regionalized DVD issue also crossed my mind as applicable
analogy in the PAL/NTSC case. Another similar marketing ploy is
perpetrated by the cell phone industry when they disable certain
frequency bands to prevent their phones being used on a
competitor's network. Their motivation in disabling the built-in
FM radios is not as clear to me though. Seems to me that EU is
more pro-consumer in a lot of these areas than the US is.

EU folk also quite like watching US DVDs so you might be in luck
trying to find hacks to make NTSC frame rates work with local
TVs.

NASA came to Tottenham Court Road in London to get its DVD
players chipped and made region free for the ISS. Insane to do
anything else. Many supermarket models can be chipped with
relative ease.


The expression "chipped" sounds very British to me and never heard
it in the US. Explain what is involved in chipping, please.

Either a ROM chip or other chip which enables a satellite receiver
(the origin of the term) to a set top cable box or even a
regionalized DVD player. 'Chipping' is where on replaces a chip on
the main board of a handcuffed device which releases it from the
handcuffs and allows it to do whatever the handcuffs were keeping it
from doing. And it was definitely an also used in the US term.

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2019-10-12, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote:

On 10/11/2019 9:57 PM, Martin Brown wrote:
On 11/10/2019 20:48, Cameo wrote:

The expression "chipped" sounds very British to me and never heard it in
the US. Explain what is involved in chipping, please.

It's an anti DRM modification to a consumer device usually involving
adding or replacing some IC, I first encounered the term in relation
to game consoles to allow use of non-genuine or out-of-region ROM
cartriges or game discs.

The term is also applied to performance modifications to automobile ECUs
usually by replacing a pluggable ROM

SFAIK region code defeat on DVD players is just a write to
NVRAM/EEPROM, often via the in-built menus.

--
When I tried casting out nines I made a hash of it.

 

[Cameo]

On 10/12/2019 2:16 PM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in
news:qns6d7$c3e$1@dont-email.me:

On 10/11/2019 9:57 PM, Martin Brown wrote:
On 11/10/2019 20:48, Cameo wrote:
On 10/10/2019 7:21 PM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org
wrote:
Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in
news:qnnok9$8vq$1@dont-email.me:

On 10/10/2019 7:50 AM, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2019-10-09, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote:
On 10/9/2019 7:04 AM, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2019-10-08, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote:
On 10/8/2019 12:58 PM, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

I don't know why you're talking about CRT TVs, when I
specifically mentioned LCD monitor in my original post.
Just so there is no more misunderstanding about which
Samsung model it is, here is a link for it:

https://www.samsung.com/us/business/support/owners/product/
2333 hd-series-2333hd/

the "driver" constains a registry entry

HKR,"MODES\1920,1080",Mode1,,"30-81,56-75,+,+"

if I'm reading that correctly that means it does 30-81 kHz
horizontal and 56-75 Hz vertical.

Which explains why it's not working with a PAL source.

Wow! Where did you find the driver code?

I followd that link there was an windows driver which I
downloaded and opened with file roller (kind of like winzip
but for linux).

File roller found that the driver file contained among other
things an ".inf" file. I opened that with a text editor,
inside the inf file was that line. (and a load of other
stuff)

In any case, the registry entry would only play a role when
Windows screen is output on that monitor

yes, but it tells windows what it is allowed to send to the
monitor.

and not when the monitor is connected directly to the PAL
set-top box via HDMI cable. And THAT's where my  problem is.

I'm guessing that samsung tells windows not to send less than
56Hz to to the monitor becase the monitor can't go slow
enough, they could be making arbitrary restrictions just to
be assholes, but my guess is that those numbers bear a close
relation to the practical sync rate limits for that monitor,
and your experience with trying to feed PAL and NTSC signals
to it seem to confirm that.

I think you're right.

   Yeah.  I think the TV can do it, but the maker locks it out
so that euro folks buy euro TVs and not a cheaper US TV even
though it could do the job.  It is not about them not being
able to do it, it is about marketing.  Also it is not about
HDMI either.

   Take a look at this discussion:

https://expatriates.stackexchange.com/questions/664/do-differen
ces- between-ntsc-and-pal-matter-with-modern-tvs

The regionalized DVD issue also crossed my mind as applicable
analogy in the PAL/NTSC case. Another similar marketing ploy is
perpetrated by the cell phone industry when they disable certain
frequency bands to prevent their phones being used on a
competitor's network. Their motivation in disabling the built-in
FM radios is not as clear to me though. Seems to me that EU is
more pro-consumer in a lot of these areas than the US is.

EU folk also quite like watching US DVDs so you might be in luck
trying to find hacks to make NTSC frame rates work with local
TVs.

NASA came to Tottenham Court Road in London to get its DVD
players chipped and made region free for the ISS. Insane to do
anything else. Many supermarket models can be chipped with
relative ease.


The expression "chipped" sounds very British to me and never heard
it in the US. Explain what is involved in chipping, please.



Either a ROM chip or other chip which enables a satellite receiver
(the origin of the term) to a set top cable box or even a
regionalized DVD player. 'Chipping' is where on replaces a chip on
the main board of a handcuffed device which releases it from the
handcuffs and allows it to do whatever the handcuffs were keeping it
from doing. And it was definitely an also used in the US term.

Does that mean unsoldering the old chip and soldering in a new one in
its place, or is it a pluggble situation?

 

Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in
news:qnti1j$9br$1@dont-email.me:

On 10/12/2019 2:16 PM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org
wrote:
Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in
news:qns6d7$c3e$1@dont-email.me:

On 10/11/2019 9:57 PM, Martin Brown wrote:
On 11/10/2019 20:48, Cameo wrote:
On 10/10/2019 7:21 PM,
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in
news:qnnok9$8vq$1@dont-email.me:

On 10/10/2019 7:50 AM, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2019-10-09, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote:
On 10/9/2019 7:04 AM, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2019-10-08, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote:
On 10/8/2019 12:58 PM, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

I don't know why you're talking about CRT TVs, when I
specifically mentioned LCD monitor in my original post.
Just so there is no more misunderstanding about which
Samsung model it is, here is a link for it:

https://www.samsung.com/us/business/support/owners/produc
t/ 2333 hd-series-2333hd/

the "driver" constains a registry entry

HKR,"MODES\1920,1080",Mode1,,"30-81,56-75,+,+"

if I'm reading that correctly that means it does 30-81
kHz horizontal and 56-75 Hz vertical.

Which explains why it's not working with a PAL source.

Wow! Where did you find the driver code?

I followd that link there was an windows driver which I
downloaded and opened with file roller (kind of like winzip
but for linux).

File roller found that the driver file contained among
other things an ".inf" file. I opened that with a text
editor, inside the inf file was that line. (and a load of
other stuff)

In any case, the registry entry would only play a role
when Windows screen is output on that monitor

yes, but it tells windows what it is allowed to send to the
monitor.

and not when the monitor is connected directly to the PAL
set-top box via HDMI cable. And THAT's where my  problem
is.

I'm guessing that samsung tells windows not to send less
than 56Hz to to the monitor becase the monitor can't go
slow enough, they could be making arbitrary restrictions
just to be assholes, but my guess is that those numbers
bear a close relation to the practical sync rate limits for
that monitor, and your experience with trying to feed PAL
and NTSC signals to it seem to confirm that.

I think you're right.

   Yeah.  I think the TV can do it, but the maker locks it
out
so that euro folks buy euro TVs and not a cheaper US TV even
though it could do the job.  It is not about them not being
able to do it, it is about marketing.  Also it is not about
HDMI either.

   Take a look at this discussion:

https://expatriates.stackexchange.com/questions/664/do-differ
en ces- between-ntsc-and-pal-matter-with-modern-tvs

The regionalized DVD issue also crossed my mind as applicable
analogy in the PAL/NTSC case. Another similar marketing ploy
is perpetrated by the cell phone industry when they disable
certain frequency bands to prevent their phones being used on
a competitor's network. Their motivation in disabling the
built-in FM radios is not as clear to me though. Seems to me
that EU is more pro-consumer in a lot of these areas than the
US is.

EU folk also quite like watching US DVDs so you might be in
luck trying to find hacks to make NTSC frame rates work with
local TVs.

NASA came to Tottenham Court Road in London to get its DVD
players chipped and made region free for the ISS. Insane to do
anything else. Many supermarket models can be chipped with
relative ease.


The expression "chipped" sounds very British to me and never
heard it in the US. Explain what is involved in chipping,
please.



Either a ROM chip or other chip which enables a satellite
receiver
(the origin of the term) to a set top cable box or even a
regionalized DVD player. 'Chipping' is where on replaces a chip
on the main board of a handcuffed device which releases it from
the handcuffs and allows it to do whatever the handcuffs were
keeping it from doing. And it was definitely an also used in the
US term.

Does that mean unsoldering the old chip and soldering in a new one
in its place, or is it a pluggble situation?

It varied from device to device. Some only needed jumpers to
defeat whatever they were after. Some required a chip change.

 

Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in
news:qntau1$9gj$1@gonzo.revmaps.no-ip.org:

On 2019-10-12, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote:
On 10/11/2019 9:57 PM, Martin Brown wrote:
On 11/10/2019 20:48, Cameo wrote:

The expression "chipped" sounds very British to me and never
heard it in the US. Explain what is involved in chipping, please.


It's an anti DRM modification to a consumer device usually
involving adding or replacing some IC, I first encounered the term
in relation to game consoles to allow use of non-genuine or
out-of-region ROM cartriges or game discs.

The term is also applied to performance modifications to
automobile ECUs usually by replacing a pluggable ROM

SFAIK region code defeat on DVD players is just a write to
NVRAM/EEPROM, often via the in-built menus.

Some fixes were simple jumper wire installations and a lifted leg
on a chip or such. But it started way back in the seventies when the
chip fab house in Taiwan pushed more "fixed" chips out the back door
at night than they did making legit chips being sold out the front
door during the day.

It is what caused General Instrument to abandon their early series
of C band receivers and create and adopt "Videocipher I and II. No
more chip fixes.

 

[Michael Terrell]

On Saturday, October 12, 2019 at 9:40:00 PM UTC-4, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in
news:qntau1$9gj$1@gonzo.revmaps.no-ip.org:

On 2019-10-12, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote:
On 10/11/2019 9:57 PM, Martin Brown wrote:
On 11/10/2019 20:48, Cameo wrote:

The expression "chipped" sounds very British to me and never
heard it in the US. Explain what is involved in chipping, please.


It's an anti DRM modification to a consumer device usually
involving adding or replacing some IC, I first encounered the term
in relation to game consoles to allow use of non-genuine or
out-of-region ROM cartriges or game discs.

The term is also applied to performance modifications to
automobile ECUs usually by replacing a pluggable ROM

SFAIK region code defeat on DVD players is just a write to
NVRAM/EEPROM, often via the in-built menus.


Some fixes were simple jumper wire installations and a lifted leg
on a chip or such. But it started way back in the seventies when the
chip fab house in Taiwan pushed more "fixed" chips out the back door
at night than they did making legit chips being sold out the front
door during the day.

It is what caused General Instrument to abandon their early series
of C band receivers and create and adopt "Videocipher I and II. No
more chip fixes.

Videocipher I scrambling sytem was first buiit by Linkabit for the US Government. HBO paid GI a million dollars for the downgraded Videocipher II, because of Warner-Amex being up to a year in arrears on their bills. I was involved in the first field testing on a spare HBO Transponder The test decoders serial numbers were under 20. Warner-Amex put a lot of small CATV construction companies out of business by not paying their bills. It caused a lot of CATV systems to have to hire people full time to build extensions, or entire systems. The full store about the fraud committed by Warner-Amex is documented in the Trade Journals. Warner-Amex was the most corrupt company in the business at that time. Warner-Amex bragged in the mid '80s that they would but every other CATV operator out of business.

GI published a list of C-Band receivers that would work with the Videocipher II, and a list of incompatible hardware. The Rockwell Collins SVR-4F was listed as non compatible, and impossible to modify. Rockwell Collins had a low pass video filer that plugged in. Different filter boards were used for different applications, so I removed them and soldered a wire jumper under the main board to bypass the filter. The Rockwell Collins SVR-4F was a modified, fixed tuned radio designed for the Military's microwave needs. A different L.O module and set of Microwave filters was about all the changes made to the original design.

Every modulator (RCA) that we used had its own low pass filters, so these were redundant. Other systems were buying new Scientific Atalanta receivers, because they were the first on the list of approved equipment. Ironically, it was one of the most expensive on the market, but it had the highest noise floor in its baseband video output. The only good thing about i was you could buy a fixed tuned or an Agile frontend. The cleanest video was from a Microdyne 1100LPR, which was the lowest priced agile commercial grad receiver on the market. It sold for around $800, VS $3,300 for the SA.

 

Michael Terrell <terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote in
news:e5823296-4bab-4219-8301-d8228ac6c967@googlegroups.com:

On Saturday, October 12, 2019 at 9:40:00 PM UTC-4,
DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in
news:qntau1$9gj$1@gonzo.revmaps.no-ip.org:

On 2019-10-12, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote:
On 10/11/2019 9:57 PM, Martin Brown wrote:
On 11/10/2019 20:48, Cameo wrote:

The expression "chipped" sounds very British to me and never
heard it in the US. Explain what is involved in chipping,
please.


It's an anti DRM modification to a consumer device usually
involving adding or replacing some IC, I first encounered the
term in relation to game consoles to allow use of non-genuine
or out-of-region ROM cartriges or game discs.

The term is also applied to performance modifications to
automobile ECUs usually by replacing a pluggable ROM

SFAIK region code defeat on DVD players is just a write to
NVRAM/EEPROM, often via the in-built menus.


Some fixes were simple jumper wire installations and a lifted
leg
on a chip or such. But it started way back in the seventies when
the chip fab house in Taiwan pushed more "fixed" chips out the
back door at night than they did making legit chips being sold
out the front door during the day.

It is what caused General Instrument to abandon their early
series
of C band receivers and create and adopt "Videocipher I and II.
No more chip fixes.

Videocipher I scrambling sytem was first buiit by Linkabit for the
US Government. HBO paid GI a million dollars for the downgraded
Videocipher II, because of Warner-Amex being up to a year in
arrears on their bills. I was involved in the first field testing
on a spare HBO Transponder The test decoders serial numbers were
under 20. Warner-Amex put a lot of small CATV construction
companies out of business by not paying their bills. It caused a
lot of CATV systems to have to hire people full time to build
extensions, or entire systems. The full store about the fraud
committed by Warner-Amex is documented in the Trade Journals.
Warner-Amex was the most corrupt company in the business at that
time. Warner-Amex bragged in the mid '80s that they would but
every other CATV operator out of business.

GI published a list of C-Band receivers that would work with the
Videocipher II, and a list of incompatible hardware. The Rockwell
Collins SVR-4F was listed as non compatible, and impossible to
modify. Rockwell Collins had a low pass video filer that plugged
in. Different filter boards were used for different applications,
so I removed them and soldered a wire jumper under the main board
to bypass the filter. The Rockwell Collins SVR-4F was a modified,
fixed tuned radio designed for the Military's microwave needs. A
different L.O module and set of Microwave filters was about all
the changes made to the original design.

Every modulator (RCA) that we used had its own low pass filters,
so these were redundant. Other systems were buying new Scientific
Atalanta receivers, because they were the first on the list of
approved equipment. Ironically, it was one of the most expensive
on the market, but it had the highest noise floor in its baseband
video output. The only good thing about i was you could buy a
fixed tuned or an Agile frontend. The cleanest video was from a
Microdyne 1100LPR, which was the lowest priced agile commercial
grad receiver on the market. It sold for around $800, VS $3,300
for the SA.

HBO almost bought VC1 they ended up choosing VC2. Cost was the
reason. VC2 is not neccessarily a downgrade of VC1. Unless I read
it as you meaning that they downgraded it because it never got
finished because of Warner-Amex? Because it certainly got finished
once it became wholly owned by General Instrument. The true upgrade
was DigiCipher, then DigiCipher II.

Here's a quote of the circumstances of the Videocipher history:

Videocipher I (VCI) system was initially considered for use by HBO in
the 1980s. HBO tested VCI extensively, but was ultimately rejected in
favor of Videocipher II. HBO's use of VCI would have required
descramblers for home satellite viewers. Due to costs involved with
VC1, maintaining VCI a descrambler was determined to be too expensive
for consumer use.

 

[Michael Terrell]

On Sunday, October 13, 2019 at 1:43:46 AM UTC-4, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

Michael Terrell wrote in
news:e5823296-4bab-4219-8301-d8228ac6c967@googlegroups.com:

On Saturday, October 12, 2019 at 9:40:00 PM UTC-4,
DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in
news:qntau1$9gj$1@gonzo.revmaps.no-ip.org:

On 2019-10-12, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote:
On 10/11/2019 9:57 PM, Martin Brown wrote:
On 11/10/2019 20:48, Cameo wrote:

The expression "chipped" sounds very British to me and never
heard it in the US. Explain what is involved in chipping,
please.


It's an anti DRM modification to a consumer device usually
involving adding or replacing some IC, I first encounered the
term in relation to game consoles to allow use of non-genuine
or out-of-region ROM cartriges or game discs.

The term is also applied to performance modifications to
automobile ECUs usually by replacing a pluggable ROM

SFAIK region code defeat on DVD players is just a write to
NVRAM/EEPROM, often via the in-built menus.


Some fixes were simple jumper wire installations and a lifted
leg
on a chip or such. But it started way back in the seventies when
the chip fab house in Taiwan pushed more "fixed" chips out the
back door at night than they did making legit chips being sold
out the front door during the day.

It is what caused General Instrument to abandon their early
series
of C band receivers and create and adopt "Videocipher I and II.
No more chip fixes.

Videocipher I scrambling sytem was first buiit by Linkabit for the
US Government. HBO paid GI a million dollars for the downgraded
Videocipher II, because of Warner-Amex being up to a year in
arrears on their bills. I was involved in the first field testing
on a spare HBO Transponder The test decoders serial numbers were
under 20. Warner-Amex put a lot of small CATV construction
companies out of business by not paying their bills. It caused a
lot of CATV systems to have to hire people full time to build
extensions, or entire systems. The full store about the fraud
committed by Warner-Amex is documented in the Trade Journals.
Warner-Amex was the most corrupt company in the business at that
time. Warner-Amex bragged in the mid '80s that they would but
every other CATV operator out of business.

GI published a list of C-Band receivers that would work with the
Videocipher II, and a list of incompatible hardware. The Rockwell
Collins SVR-4F was listed as non compatible, and impossible to
modify. Rockwell Collins had a low pass video filer that plugged
in. Different filter boards were used for different applications,
so I removed them and soldered a wire jumper under the main board
to bypass the filter. The Rockwell Collins SVR-4F was a modified,
fixed tuned radio designed for the Military's microwave needs. A
different L.O module and set of Microwave filters was about all
the changes made to the original design.

Every modulator (RCA) that we used had its own low pass filters,
so these were redundant. Other systems were buying new Scientific
Atalanta receivers, because they were the first on the list of
approved equipment. Ironically, it was one of the most expensive
on the market, but it had the highest noise floor in its baseband
video output. The only good thing about i was you could buy a
fixed tuned or an Agile frontend. The cleanest video was from a
Microdyne 1100LPR, which was the lowest priced agile commercial
grad receiver on the market. It sold for around $800, VS $3,300
for the SA.


HBO almost bought VC1 they ended up choosing VC2. Cost was the
reason. VC2 is not neccessarily a downgrade of VC1. Unless I read
it as you meaning that they downgraded it because it never got
finished because of Warner-Amex? Because it certainly got finished
once it became wholly owned by General Instrument. The true upgrade
was DigiCipher, then DigiCipher II.

Here's a quote of the circumstances of the Videocipher history:

Videocipher I (VCI) system was initially considered for use by HBO in
the 1980s. HBO tested VCI extensively, but was ultimately rejected in
favor of Videocipher II. HBO's use of VCI would have required
descramblers for home satellite viewers. Due to costs involved with
VC1, maintaining VCI a descrambler was determined to be too expensive
for consumer use.

Videocipher I scrambled audio and video, it was downgraded to video only in the Videocipher II A descramble was need for home se, no matter what system was chosen. The Videocipher I decoder was initially abut $15,000 from Linkabit.

The downgraded Videocipher II was initially under $600, which was more suited for home use.

I may still have the original, stand alone descrambler CATV Headend user manual in my files. It fit a 19" rack . The home units were plug in modules. I think that there is still a Videocipher II-RS module in the last receiver that my dad owned.

 

[Cameo]

On 10/13/2019 3:39 AM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in
news:qntau1$9gj$1@gonzo.revmaps.no-ip.org:

On 2019-10-12, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote:
On 10/11/2019 9:57 PM, Martin Brown wrote:
On 11/10/2019 20:48, Cameo wrote:

The expression "chipped" sounds very British to me and never
heard it in the US. Explain what is involved in chipping, please.


It's an anti DRM modification to a consumer device usually
involving adding or replacing some IC, I first encounered the term
in relation to game consoles to allow use of non-genuine or
out-of-region ROM cartriges or game discs.

The term is also applied to performance modifications to
automobile ECUs usually by replacing a pluggable ROM

SFAIK region code defeat on DVD players is just a write to
NVRAM/EEPROM, often via the in-built menus.


Some fixes were simple jumper wire installations and a lifted leg
on a chip or such. But it started way back in the seventies when the
chip fab house in Taiwan pushed more "fixed" chips out the back door
at night than they did making legit chips being sold out the front
door during the day.

There was not even Internet at that time, so how was this kind of "dark"
knowledge propogated?

 

Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in
news:qnvppp$j1v$1@dont-email.me:

On 10/13/2019 3:39 AM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org
wrote:
Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in
news:qntau1$9gj$1@gonzo.revmaps.no-ip.org:

On 2019-10-12, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote:
On 10/11/2019 9:57 PM, Martin Brown wrote:
On 11/10/2019 20:48, Cameo wrote:

The expression "chipped" sounds very British to me and never
heard it in the US. Explain what is involved in chipping,
please.


It's an anti DRM modification to a consumer device usually
involving adding or replacing some IC, I first encounered the
term in relation to game consoles to allow use of non-genuine or
out-of-region ROM cartriges or game discs.

The term is also applied to performance modifications to
automobile ECUs usually by replacing a pluggable ROM

SFAIK region code defeat on DVD players is just a write to
NVRAM/EEPROM, often via the in-built menus.


Some fixes were simple jumper wire installations and a lifted
leg
on a chip or such. But it started way back in the seventies when
the chip fab house in Taiwan pushed more "fixed" chips out the
back door at night than they did making legit chips being sold
out the front door during the day.

There was not even Internet at that time, so how was this kind of
"dark" knowledge propogated?

Rotten installers.

 

[Martin Brown]

On 13/10/2019 19:18, Cameo wrote:

On 10/13/2019 3:39 AM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in
news:qntau1$9gj$1@gonzo.revmaps.no-ip.org:

On 2019-10-12, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote:
On 10/11/2019 9:57 PM, Martin Brown wrote:
On 11/10/2019 20:48, Cameo wrote:

The expression "chipped" sounds very British to me and never
heard it in the US. Explain what is involved in chipping, please.


It's an anti DRM modification to a consumer device usually
involving adding or replacing some IC, I first encounered the term
in relation to game consoles to allow use of non-genuine or
out-of-region ROM cartriges or game discs.

The term is also applied to performance modifications to
automobile ECUs usually by replacing a pluggable ROM

SFAIK region code defeat on DVD players is just a write to
NVRAM/EEPROM, often via the in-built menus.

   Some fixes were simple jumper wire installations and a lifted leg
on a chip or such.  But it started way back in the seventies when the
chip fab house in Taiwan pushed more "fixed" chips out the back door
at night than they did making legit chips being sold out the front
door during the day.

There was not even Internet at that time, so how was this kind of "dark"
knowledge propogated?

Booklets in the dodgier electronics shops and enthusiast bulletin boards
that were the first online resources in the pre-internet era. Internet
was well advanced by the time DVDs came along. The world wide web came
later. Back then it was mostly text files by ftp and searched by gopher.
The WWW ~1990 just predates the DVD(1995) but not by much.

ISTR in the US much of this early hacking of kit was called
phone-freaking although that included a multitude of other sins.

In the UK everyone interested in home cinema knew the right place to go
for a chipped unit - they advertised in the hobby magazines. These days
many of the ones sold in supermarkets can be tweaked quite easily.
Typically few magic presses of the remote and bingo it is region free.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote in
news:qo1mqu$1qt4$1@gioia.aioe.org:

On 13/10/2019 19:18, Cameo wrote:
On 10/13/2019 3:39 AM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org
wrote:
Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in
news:qntau1$9gj$1@gonzo.revmaps.no-ip.org:

On 2019-10-12, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote:
On 10/11/2019 9:57 PM, Martin Brown wrote:
On 11/10/2019 20:48, Cameo wrote:

The expression "chipped" sounds very British to me and never
heard it in the US. Explain what is involved in chipping,
please.


It's an anti DRM modification to a consumer device usually
involving adding or replacing some IC, I first encounered the
term in relation to game consoles to allow use of non-genuine
or out-of-region ROM cartriges or game discs.

The term is also applied to performance modifications to
automobile ECUs usually by replacing a pluggable ROM

SFAIK region code defeat on DVD players is just a write to
NVRAM/EEPROM, often via the in-built menus.

   Some fixes were simple jumper wire installations and a lifted
leg on a chip or such.  But it started way back in the seventies
when the chip fab house in Taiwan pushed more "fixed" chips out
the back door at night than they did making legit chips being
sold out the front door during the day.

There was not even Internet at that time, so how was this kind of
"dark" knowledge propogated?

Booklets in the dodgier electronics shops and enthusiast bulletin
boards that were the first online resources in the pre-internet
era. Internet was well advanced by the time DVDs came along. The
world wide web came later. Back then it was mostly text files by
ftp and searched by gopher. The WWW ~1990 just predates the
DVD(1995) but not by much.

ISTR in the US much of this early hacking of kit was called
phone-freaking although that included a multitude of other sins.

In the UK everyone interested in home cinema knew the right place
to go for a chipped unit - they advertised in the hobby magazines.
These days many of the ones sold in supermarkets can be tweaked
quite easily. Typically few magic presses of the remote and bingo
it is region free.

It started way back in the seventies with sat receivers. I imagine
one way it propagated was through BBS's once they started being used,
but before that it was rotten installers. NONE of our magazines had
ANY hacked gear ads. Not until the era you speak of with
regionalized DVD players.

 

[Cameo]

On 10/14/2019 1:40 PM, Martin Brown wrote:

On 13/10/2019 19:18, Cameo wrote:
On 10/13/2019 3:39 AM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in
news:qntau1$9gj$1@gonzo.revmaps.no-ip.org:

On 2019-10-12, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote:
On 10/11/2019 9:57 PM, Martin Brown wrote:
On 11/10/2019 20:48, Cameo wrote:

The expression "chipped" sounds very British to me and never
heard it in the US. Explain what is involved in chipping, please.


It's an anti DRM modification to a consumer device usually
involving adding or replacing some IC, I first encounered the term
in relation to game consoles to allow use of non-genuine or
out-of-region ROM cartriges or game discs.

The term is also applied to performance modifications to
automobile ECUs usually by replacing a pluggable ROM

SFAIK region code defeat on DVD players is just a write to
NVRAM/EEPROM, often via the in-built menus.

   Some fixes were simple jumper wire installations and a lifted leg
on a chip or such.  But it started way back in the seventies when the
chip fab house in Taiwan pushed more "fixed" chips out the back door
at night than they did making legit chips being sold out the front
door during the day.

There was not even Internet at that time, so how was this kind of
"dark" knowledge propogated?

Booklets in the dodgier electronics shops and enthusiast bulletin boards
that were the first online resources in the pre-internet era. Internet
was well advanced by the time DVDs came along. The world wide web came
later. Back then it was mostly text files by ftp and searched by gopher.
The WWW ~1990 just predates the DVD(1995) but not by much.

ISTR in the US much of this early hacking of kit was called
phone-freaking although that included a multitude of other sins.

In the UK everyone interested in home cinema knew the right place to go
for a chipped unit - they advertised in the hobby magazines. These days
many of the ones sold in supermarkets can be tweaked quite easily.
Typically few magic presses of the remote and bingo it is region free.

Hm ... Interesting history.