HDMI in US and in EU

[Martin Brown]

On 07/10/2019 18:55, Cameo wrote:

On 10/7/2019 12:35 AM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
news:4f7f27b1-d64c-4f1f-8316-ea44343ee675@googlegroups.com:

I have been reading this thread and I have to say i don't
understand what anyone is talking about with PAL HDMI and NTSC
HDMI.  What exactly is the difference???


   Ask Terrell.

   I cannot believe that you do not know the difference between PAL and
NTSC.

   There were even tuners out there that could do both in the end of the
standard resolution days.  That was decades ago.  Where the fuck have
you been all the while claiming to be an electronics dude?

This discussion now focuses entirely on TV HDMI output and ignores the
fact that HDMI is also used to output PC audio/video, often to the same
screen which can change the source to be displayed: TV or PC. Does this
mean that PC video is also produced in PAL or NTSC frame rates, just as
TV video? What about streaming video? Is that also converted into frames
before display?

Yes. PC graphics cards can usually provide either 50 or 60Hz refresh
rates at HD resolution (and often much higher than that). I'd expect
most laptops to be able to output a suitable frame rate but you might
end up with a monochrome result if it can't fully meet the chroma spec.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[Cameo]

On 10/7/2019 12:35 AM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
news:4f7f27b1-d64c-4f1f-8316-ea44343ee675@googlegroups.com:

I have been reading this thread and I have to say i don't
understand what anyone is talking about with PAL HDMI and NTSC
HDMI. What exactly is the difference???


Ask Terrell.

I cannot believe that you do not know the difference between PAL and
NTSC.

There were even tuners out there that could do both in the end of the
standard resolution days. That was decades ago. Where the fuck have
you been all the while claiming to be an electronics dude?

This discussion now focuses entirely on TV HDMI output and ignores the
fact that HDMI is also used to output PC audio/video, often to the same
screen which can change the source to be displayed: TV or PC. Does this
mean that PC video is also produced in PAL or NTSC frame rates, just as
TV video? What about streaming video? Is that also converted into frames
before display?

 

[Cameo]

On 10/7/2019 8:02 PM, Martin Brown wrote:

On 07/10/2019 18:55, Cameo wrote:
On 10/7/2019 12:35 AM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
news:4f7f27b1-d64c-4f1f-8316-ea44343ee675@googlegroups.com:

I have been reading this thread and I have to say i don't
understand what anyone is talking about with PAL HDMI and NTSC
HDMI.  What exactly is the difference???


   Ask Terrell.

   I cannot believe that you do not know the difference between PAL and
NTSC.

   There were even tuners out there that could do both in the end of the
standard resolution days.  That was decades ago.  Where the fuck have
you been all the while claiming to be an electronics dude?

This discussion now focuses entirely on TV HDMI output and ignores the
fact that HDMI is also used to output PC audio/video, often to the
same screen which can change the source to be displayed: TV or PC.
Does this mean that PC video is also produced in PAL or NTSC frame
rates, just as TV video? What about streaming video? Is that also
converted into frames before display?

Yes. PC graphics cards can usually provide either 50 or 60Hz refresh
rates at HD resolution (and often much higher than that). I'd expect
most laptops to be able to output a suitable frame rate but you might
end up with a monochrome result if it can't fully meet the chroma spec.

OK, so this means then that even if I bought a new TV here in Europe, it
could only display the TV screen, but may not display my laptop's screen
that I brought from the US. That one works with 60 Hz video rate, not 50
that is used in the PAL standard. I would be worse off than now, when I
can at least use my NTSC TV monitor as a full HD 1080p x 1920 external
display with my laptop. Remember, my goal was to have a dual use HDMI
monitor that would display either a TV program or my laptop screen with
just the flip of a switch. I guess I had the mistaken notion about the
HDMI standard, thinking that it does away with all that ancient frame
rate business by turning video into some kind of universal streaming scheme.

 

Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in
news:qnfu6s$cm5$1@dont-email.me:

On 10/7/2019 12:35 AM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org
wrote:
Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
news:4f7f27b1-d64c-4f1f-8316-ea44343ee675@googlegroups.com:

I have been reading this thread and I have to say i don't
understand what anyone is talking about with PAL HDMI and NTSC
HDMI. What exactly is the difference???


Ask Terrell.

I cannot believe that you do not know the difference between
PAL and
NTSC.

There were even tuners out there that could do both in the end
of the
standard resolution days. That was decades ago. Where the fuck
have you been all the while claiming to be an electronics dude?

This discussion now focuses entirely on TV HDMI output and ignores
the fact that HDMI is also used to output PC audio/video, often to
the same screen which can change the source to be displayed: TV or
PC. Does this mean that PC video is also produced in PAL or NTSC
frame rates, just as TV video? What about streaming video? Is that
also converted into frames before display?

You should not experience a problem with any HDMI compliant display
being fed by any compliant device over a properly compliant cable.

Did you buy a shitbox $3.00 hdmi cable?

There should not have been any issue and the HDMI handshake should
have dropped (or raised) the frame rate if the display required it.

I think the issue was with the set top box being tied to a narrow
scope of attachable devices. But even that does not sound right as
HDMI is not supposed to have an issue here.

 

[Michael Terrell]

On Monday, October 7, 2019 at 1:15:26 PM UTC-4, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

Upright video games suffered from effects caused by the Earth's
magnetic field, and would color shift depending on which way they
were oriented in the game room. Another element of the huge notable
shift was the fact that the CRT screens were tipped back on an angle
from the vertical, which I think amplifies the unwanted effect.

We had to tell some game room operators that a certain game needed
to face a different direction or be placed at a different location in
the room. Some were not happy as a PacMan could take in $300 a week
back in the day when $300 was a lot of money. Placement was
important.

I rarely read your posts. Those so called techs weren't smart enough to use a commercial grade degassing coil on the steel parts of those games. I didn't repair the games, but the monitors that I've seen were RGB, not composite. They had a 20? pin header and used a short ribbon cable to connect to the video output.

Some TVs had the same problem. The large steel chassis would become magnetized, over time. Some were caused by kids playing with magnets to intentional distort the image.

I manufactured and sold some heavy duty Degaussing coils for the job. You could see the field on a color CRT from 25 feet. You didn't use them on the faceplate, because they would damage the shadow mask, but they did what they were supposed to on every piece of magnetized hardware in the sets.

I did this while I was in high school, in the '60s. It was the first product that I designed and built I used a piece of sheet aluminum to mount a 15A rated C&K pushbutton momentary switch, and they had a 20 foot power cord. It was better that the $80 General Cement product, and thanks to well stocked surplus stores I made a nice profit at $25. That had a six foot cord, and the inline switch was made to turn a table lamp on or off. They were a fire hazard.

I still have the prototype in my home shop.

 

[Martin Brown]

On 07/10/2019 20:01, Cameo wrote:

On 10/7/2019 8:02 PM, Martin Brown wrote:
On 07/10/2019 18:55, Cameo wrote:
On 10/7/2019 12:35 AM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
news:4f7f27b1-d64c-4f1f-8316-ea44343ee675@googlegroups.com:

I have been reading this thread and I have to say i don't
understand what anyone is talking about with PAL HDMI and NTSC
HDMI.  What exactly is the difference???


   Ask Terrell.

   I cannot believe that you do not know the difference between PAL and
NTSC.

   There were even tuners out there that could do both in the end of
the
standard resolution days.  That was decades ago.  Where the fuck have
you been all the while claiming to be an electronics dude?

This discussion now focuses entirely on TV HDMI output and ignores
the fact that HDMI is also used to output PC audio/video, often to
the same screen which can change the source to be displayed: TV or
PC. Does this mean that PC video is also produced in PAL or NTSC
frame rates, just as TV video? What about streaming video? Is that
also converted into frames before display?

Yes. PC graphics cards can usually provide either 50 or 60Hz refresh
rates at HD resolution (and often much higher than that). I'd expect
most laptops to be able to output a suitable frame rate but you might
end up with a monochrome result if it can't fully meet the chroma spec.

OK, so this means then that even if I bought a new TV here in Europe, it
could only display the TV screen, but may not display my laptop's screen
that I brought from the US. That one works with 60 Hz video rate, not 50
that is used in the PAL standard. I would be worse off than now, when I
can at least use my NTSC TV monitor as a full HD 1080p x 1920 external
display with my laptop. Remember, my goal was to have a dual use HDMI
monitor that would display either a TV program or my laptop screen with
just the flip of a switch. I guess I had the mistaken notion about the
HDMI standard, thinking that it does away with all that ancient frame
rate business by turning video into some kind of universal streaming
scheme.

You would have to try it in store to see if it worked in practice. I'd
expect at least some EU TVs to work OK. There is a fairly significant
following for playing Region 1 DVDs in the UK not sure about the rest of
Europe. Over here you can buy easily chipped DVDs in supermarkets. You
just have to look in the appropriate home cinema or computer magazines
to find out the way to hack them into region free mode. I'm not sure if
they playback NTSC content by dropping frames or at 5/6th real speed.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 21:25:36 +0200, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote:

On 2019. 10. 04. 20:16, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in
news:qn81e8$s6n$1@dont-email.me:

On my recent move to Europe I also shipped an older Samsung LCD
monitor that I've been using as an external display with my
laptop, using HDMI connection.

Was that an old VGA computer monitor with only 640 x 480 resolution ?
..

I also used it as a TV display via
another HDMI connection to a set top box. It was a very convenient
setup, needing only a switch of the video source.

US standard television resolution was 480i (NTSC 525/60) , so it was
easy to let the VGA monitor also display a TV signal.

I figured I could use that monitor in Europe, as HDMI standards
should be the same. To my disappointment though, the monitor would
not display the TV program from the set top box. Instead I get an
error message that says something about an unsupported mode. What
mode is that?

Most likely 576i (PAL 625/50) requiring a 720 x 576 LCD display panel.

I know that the TV standards are different, but I
thought HDMI display makes it a non-issue. Am I wrong?

If you had a VGA only, no luck, unless you have a down converter.

In the beginning of the century some VGA resolution (640 x 480) LCD
and plasmas as well as some projectors were sold in Europe with a down
converter, which your monitor seems to be lacking.

European HD came out of the PAL days of the CRT era. So you will get
no set top box action with a US TV (sans some converter that may or
may not exist).

In the US the 1080i HD started in the CRT era, while in practice, most
CRTs were actually 540p since they did not implement proper
interlacing and the beam width and shadow mask resolution was too bad.

HD started later in Europe and practically no HD TVs were sold with
CRTs, most were 720p or 1080p LCDs from the beginning.

You should still be able to do laptop hookups though.

So, you need to instead of CONNECTING your TV with HDMI from the
set top box, make your device a hot spot, and log your TV onto it via
wifi or bluetooth. No wifi TV? Ohhh... back to the wire.

If the content you select (from a PC) then still wont play, then you
maybe need a different streaming player (VLC) because that should be
region independent

Your TV got no wifi? Amazon dot calm.

This display monitor originally had a built in TV tuner that became
obsolete when Comcast started encrypting its channels. From that point
on I had to get the TV feed from their set top box via HDMI. Since it is
a fairly old set, it is not a smart TV but I like its display quality
and I still can use it as a 23" external monitor for my laptop.

Regarding analog CRT televisions, the horizontal rate is nearly
identical, so any TV will achieve horizontal synch (except ancient UK
405 and French 819 line). The horizontal defalcation is implemented
with high power component close to resonance, so a radical change in
horizontal rate requires switching high power capacitors and/or
inductors.

The difference between 50 and 60 Hz might be a challenge for older
TVs. However, for a few decades TVs in Europe will have a large lock
in range on the vertical side, so they also accept 60 Hz TV signals,
thus working both in Americas as well as in the rest of the world.

While most modern analog televisions may synchronize regardless of
system, but will show a black nd with picture when subjected to the
wrong colour standard.

Early LCD and plasmas were only capable of displaying their natural
resolution, but modern equipment contain a scan converter, so they
should be able to display any TV standard.

 

[Cameo]

On 10/7/2019 9:08 PM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in
news:qnfu6s$cm5$1@dont-email.me:

On 10/7/2019 12:35 AM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org
wrote:
Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
news:4f7f27b1-d64c-4f1f-8316-ea44343ee675@googlegroups.com:

I have been reading this thread and I have to say i don't
understand what anyone is talking about with PAL HDMI and NTSC
HDMI. What exactly is the difference???


Ask Terrell.

I cannot believe that you do not know the difference between
PAL and
NTSC.

There were even tuners out there that could do both in the end
of the
standard resolution days. That was decades ago. Where the fuck
have you been all the while claiming to be an electronics dude?

This discussion now focuses entirely on TV HDMI output and ignores
the fact that HDMI is also used to output PC audio/video, often to
the same screen which can change the source to be displayed: TV or
PC. Does this mean that PC video is also produced in PAL or NTSC
frame rates, just as TV video? What about streaming video? Is that
also converted into frames before display?


You should not experience a problem with any HDMI compliant display
being fed by any compliant device over a properly compliant cable.

Did you buy a shitbox $3.00 hdmi cable?

There should not have been any issue and the HDMI handshake should
have dropped (or raised) the frame rate if the display required it.

I think the issue was with the set top box being tied to a narrow
scope of attachable devices. But even that does not sound right as
HDMI is not supposed to have an issue here.

This is the type of response I was hoping to hear from somebody. I don't
think I used a shitty HDMI cable, but I am not sure if it was one of the
cables that came with the TV set or with some other product I bought, or
one that I bought separately. But I can try some other cables, just in case.

 

[Cameo]

On 10/8/2019 12:58 PM, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 21:25:36 +0200, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote:

On 2019. 10. 04. 20:16, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in
news:qn81e8$s6n$1@dont-email.me:

On my recent move to Europe I also shipped an older Samsung LCD
monitor that I've been using as an external display with my
laptop, using HDMI connection.

Was that an old VGA computer monitor with only 640 x 480 resolution ?
.
I also used it as a TV display via
another HDMI connection to a set top box. It was a very convenient
setup, needing only a switch of the video source.

US standard television resolution was 480i (NTSC 525/60) , so it was
easy to let the VGA monitor also display a TV signal.

I figured I could use that monitor in Europe, as HDMI standards
should be the same. To my disappointment though, the monitor would
not display the TV program from the set top box. Instead I get an
error message that says something about an unsupported mode. What
mode is that?

Most likely 576i (PAL 625/50) requiring a 720 x 576 LCD display panel.

I know that the TV standards are different, but I
thought HDMI display makes it a non-issue. Am I wrong?

If you had a VGA only, no luck, unless you have a down converter.

In the beginning of the century some VGA resolution (640 x 480) LCD
and plasmas as well as some projectors were sold in Europe with a down
converter, which your monitor seems to be lacking.


European HD came out of the PAL days of the CRT era. So you will get
no set top box action with a US TV (sans some converter that may or
may not exist).

In the US the 1080i HD started in the CRT era, while in practice, most
CRTs were actually 540p since they did not implement proper
interlacing and the beam width and shadow mask resolution was too bad.

HD started later in Europe and practically no HD TVs were sold with
CRTs, most were 720p or 1080p LCDs from the beginning.


You should still be able to do laptop hookups though.

So, you need to instead of CONNECTING your TV with HDMI from the
set top box, make your device a hot spot, and log your TV onto it via
wifi or bluetooth. No wifi TV? Ohhh... back to the wire.

If the content you select (from a PC) then still wont play, then you
maybe need a different streaming player (VLC) because that should be
region independent

Your TV got no wifi? Amazon dot calm.

This display monitor originally had a built in TV tuner that became
obsolete when Comcast started encrypting its channels. From that point
on I had to get the TV feed from their set top box via HDMI. Since it is
a fairly old set, it is not a smart TV but I like its display quality
and I still can use it as a 23" external monitor for my laptop.


Regarding analog CRT televisions, the horizontal rate is nearly
identical, so any TV will achieve horizontal synch (except ancient UK
405 and French 819 line). The horizontal defalcation is implemented
with high power component close to resonance, so a radical change in
horizontal rate requires switching high power capacitors and/or
inductors.

The difference between 50 and 60 Hz might be a challenge for older
TVs. However, for a few decades TVs in Europe will have a large lock
in range on the vertical side, so they also accept 60 Hz TV signals,
thus working both in Americas as well as in the rest of the world.

While most modern analog televisions may synchronize regardless of
system, but will show a black nd with picture when subjected to the
wrong colour standard.

Early LCD and plasmas were only capable of displaying their natural
resolution, but modern equipment contain a scan converter, so they
should be able to display any TV standard.

I don't know why you're talking about CRT TVs, when I specifically
mentioned LCD monitor in my original post. Just so there is no more
misunderstanding about which Samsung model it is, here is a link for it:

https://www.samsung.com/us/business/support/owners/product/2333hd-series-2333hd/

And my laptop is Lenovo Z00 IdeaPad:

https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/ideapad/z-series/z400-touch/

 

Michael Terrell <terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote in
news:e92d88ee-d658-440d-8f0d-eb54c686d2a9@googlegroups.com:

I rarely read your posts. Those so called techs weren't smart
enough to use a commercial grade degassing coil on the steel parts
of those games.

It was not just degaussing. It is a known issue with upright video
arcade game cabinets with big CRTs in them. Even some of the cocktail
units did it.

And they (some) had integrated degaussing coils on the tubes as well.

 

On Tue, 8 Oct 2019 13:55:09 +0200, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote:

On 10/8/2019 12:58 PM, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:
On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 21:25:36 +0200, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote:

On 2019. 10. 04. 20:16, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in
news:qn81e8$s6n$1@dont-email.me:

On my recent move to Europe I also shipped an older Samsung LCD
monitor that I've been using as an external display with my
laptop, using HDMI connection.

Was that an old VGA computer monitor with only 640 x 480 resolution ?
.
I also used it as a TV display via
another HDMI connection to a set top box. It was a very convenient
setup, needing only a switch of the video source.

US standard television resolution was 480i (NTSC 525/60) , so it was
easy to let the VGA monitor also display a TV signal.

I figured I could use that monitor in Europe, as HDMI standards
should be the same. To my disappointment though, the monitor would
not display the TV program from the set top box. Instead I get an
error message that says something about an unsupported mode. What
mode is that?

Most likely 576i (PAL 625/50) requiring a 720 x 576 LCD display panel.

I know that the TV standards are different, but I
thought HDMI display makes it a non-issue. Am I wrong?

If you had a VGA only, no luck, unless you have a down converter.

In the beginning of the century some VGA resolution (640 x 480) LCD
and plasmas as well as some projectors were sold in Europe with a down
converter, which your monitor seems to be lacking.


European HD came out of the PAL days of the CRT era. So you will get
no set top box action with a US TV (sans some converter that may or
may not exist).

In the US the 1080i HD started in the CRT era, while in practice, most
CRTs were actually 540p since they did not implement proper
interlacing and the beam width and shadow mask resolution was too bad.

HD started later in Europe and practically no HD TVs were sold with
CRTs, most were 720p or 1080p LCDs from the beginning.


You should still be able to do laptop hookups though.

So, you need to instead of CONNECTING your TV with HDMI from the
set top box, make your device a hot spot, and log your TV onto it via
wifi or bluetooth. No wifi TV? Ohhh... back to the wire.

If the content you select (from a PC) then still wont play, then you
maybe need a different streaming player (VLC) because that should be
region independent

Your TV got no wifi? Amazon dot calm.

This display monitor originally had a built in TV tuner that became
obsolete when Comcast started encrypting its channels. From that point
on I had to get the TV feed from their set top box via HDMI. Since it is
a fairly old set, it is not a smart TV but I like its display quality
and I still can use it as a 23" external monitor for my laptop.


Regarding analog CRT televisions, the horizontal rate is nearly
identical, so any TV will achieve horizontal synch (except ancient UK
405 and French 819 line). The horizontal defalcation is implemented
with high power component close to resonance, so a radical change in
horizontal rate requires switching high power capacitors and/or
inductors.

The difference between 50 and 60 Hz might be a challenge for older
TVs. However, for a few decades TVs in Europe will have a large lock
in range on the vertical side, so they also accept 60 Hz TV signals,
thus working both in Americas as well as in the rest of the world.

While most modern analog televisions may synchronize regardless of
system, but will show a black nd with picture when subjected to the
wrong colour standard.

Early LCD and plasmas were only capable of displaying their natural
resolution, but modern equipment contain a scan converter, so they
should be able to display any TV standard.

I don't know why you're talking about CRT TVs, when I specifically
mentioned LCD monitor in my original post. Just so there is no more
misunderstanding about which Samsung model it is, here is a link for it:

https://www.samsung.com/us/business/support/owners/product/2333hd-series-2333hd/

And my laptop is Lenovo Z00 IdeaPad:

https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/ideapad/z-series/z400-touch/

You should have specified the monitor type in your initial posting. It
appears to be a newer version that I originally assumed.

If nothing else helps, the cheapest way of getting a TV program to the
screen is getting a USB TV-stick for your PC, the DVB-T version for
antenna reception or DVB-C for cable reception. Costs well below 100
euros for SD.

 

Perhaps this is a DRM issue.

I think HDMI includes DRM handshaking.

mark

 

[Michael Terrell]

On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 9:21:42 AM UTC-4, DecadentLinux...@decadence..org wrote:

Michael Terrell wrote:

I rarely read your posts. Those so called techs weren't smart
enough to use a commercial grade degassing coil on the steel parts
of those games.

It was not just degaussing. It is a known issue with upright video
arcade game cabinets with big CRTs in them. Even some of the cocktail
units did it.

And they (some) had integrated degaussing coils on the tubes as well.

Integrated coils? Big deal. The built in Degaussing was never designed to demagnetize anything except the shadow mask and the CRT mounting hardware.

Any real TV tech knew better. That's why service trucks carried an external coil to degauss the CRT of color sets when they were delivered.

I used to laugh at Furniture and Tire stores that sold Color TVs. They just opened the crates and plugged them in. They always looked bad.

The task of setting up a TV or monitor was just too far above their pay grade.

I learned the details of proper degaussing at 13, while working part time in a TV shop. The older techs knew a lot of tricks of the trade! Most couldn't design a circuit, but they could follow a schematic and find the problems. I also learned that cheap, lightweight coils were crap.

I started with those damned 17" to 21" round CRTs, many of which had steel bells. Those were a real bitch to degauss!

 

Michael Terrell <terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote in
news:8f0e0dc4-7a7a-4583-ba15-7500712a0f25@googlegroups.com:

On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 9:21:42 AM UTC-4,
DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
Michael Terrell wrote:

I rarely read your posts. Those so called techs weren't smart
enough to use a commercial grade degassing coil on the steel
parts of those games.

It was not just degaussing. It is a known issue with upright
video
arcade game cabinets with big CRTs in them. Even some of the
cocktail units did it.

And they (some) had integrated degaussing coils on the tubes as
well.

Integrated coils? Big deal. The built in Degaussing was never
designed to demagnetize anything except the shadow mask and the
CRT mounting hardware.

Any real TV tech knew better. That's why service trucks carried an
external coil to degauss the CRT of color sets when they were
delivered.

I used to laugh at Furniture and Tire stores that sold Color TVs.
They just opened the crates and plugged them in. They always
looked bad.

The task of setting up a TV or monitor was just too far above
their pay grade.

I learned the details of proper degaussing at 13, while working
part time in a TV shop. The older techs knew a lot of tricks of
the trade! Most couldn't design a circuit, but they could follow a
schematic and find the problems. I also learned that cheap,
lightweight coils were crap.

I started with those damned 17" to 21" round CRTs, many of which
had steel bells. Those were a real bitch to degauss!

I liked going into the shop as we went home and taking a magnet to
a unit someone like you just spent a half hour degaussing, just to
fuck with his head the next morning. (just kidding) (I threw
him a charged HV cap)

 

[Michael Terrell]

On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 6:44:56 PM UTC-4, DecadentLinux...@decadence..org wrote:

Michael Terrell wrote:

On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 9:21:42 AM UTC-4,
DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
Michael Terrell wrote:

I rarely read your posts. Those so called techs weren't smart
enough to use a commercial grade degassing coil on the steel
parts of those games.

It was not just degaussing. It is a known issue with upright
video
arcade game cabinets with big CRTs in them. Even some of the
cocktail units did it.

And they (some) had integrated degaussing coils on the tubes as
well.

Integrated coils? Big deal. The built in Degaussing was never
designed to demagnetize anything except the shadow mask and the
CRT mounting hardware.

Any real TV tech knew better. That's why service trucks carried an
external coil to degauss the CRT of color sets when they were
delivered.

I used to laugh at Furniture and Tire stores that sold Color TVs.
They just opened the crates and plugged them in. They always
looked bad.

The task of setting up a TV or monitor was just too far above
their pay grade.

I learned the details of proper degaussing at 13, while working
part time in a TV shop. The older techs knew a lot of tricks of
the trade! Most couldn't design a circuit, but they could follow a
schematic and find the problems. I also learned that cheap,
lightweight coils were crap.

I started with those damned 17" to 21" round CRTs, many of which
had steel bells. Those were a real bitch to degauss!


I liked going into the shop as we went home and taking a magnet to
a unit someone like you just spent a half hour degaussing, just to
fuck with his head the next morning. (just kidding) (I threw
him a charged HV cap)

It never took more than a few minutes with the proper tool, which proves that you are clueless about the process. Anyone who tried a stunt like that would have been fired on the spot. Most TVs or monitors could have the three screens calibrated, the CRT degauused and a full convergence done in 15 minutes or less.

Ironically, the so called 'video game techs' that I knew in SW Ohio had been fired from better jobs. One worked for me for less than a week before I had to fire him from the Industrial Electronics company that I owned. Even then, he would stop by the shop with a schematic and want us to tell him how to actually repair a board that he couldn't just shotgun back to life.

He had a pissy attitude just like yours, and I couldn't trust him to work in the local schools. He mouthed off to the students, and the girls complained about him.

You remind me of the moron in HS that went around the shop classes with a welding hammer to hit his classmates in their nuts. Three of them grabbed him as he was laughing at one of them that he had just hit with it. They left him sobbing on the floor with that hammer.

We didn't put up with morons like you where anyone could get hurt. It didn't matter if it was in school, on the job or in the Military. You would have likely been fragged if you were sent to a war zone. You need to grow up.

 

Michael Terrell <terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote in
news:ebd8174e-2ec3-4581-b825-aeb176d50350@googlegroups.com:

On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 6:44:56 PM UTC-4,
DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
Michael Terrell wrote:

On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 9:21:42 AM UTC-4,
DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
Michael Terrell wrote:

I rarely read your posts. Those so called techs weren't
smart enough to use a commercial grade degassing coil on the
steel parts of those games.

It was not just degaussing. It is a known issue with
upright video
arcade game cabinets with big CRTs in them. Even some of the
cocktail units did it.

And they (some) had integrated degaussing coils on the tubes
as well.

Integrated coils? Big deal. The built in Degaussing was never
designed to demagnetize anything except the shadow mask and the
CRT mounting hardware.

Any real TV tech knew better. That's why service trucks carried
an external coil to degauss the CRT of color sets when they
were delivered.

I used to laugh at Furniture and Tire stores that sold Color
TVs. They just opened the crates and plugged them in. They
always looked bad.

The task of setting up a TV or monitor was just too far above
their pay grade.

I learned the details of proper degaussing at 13, while working
part time in a TV shop. The older techs knew a lot of tricks of
the trade! Most couldn't design a circuit, but they could
follow a schematic and find the problems. I also learned that
cheap, lightweight coils were crap.

I started with those damned 17" to 21" round CRTs, many of
which had steel bells. Those were a real bitch to degauss!


I liked going into the shop as we went home and taking a magnet
to
a unit someone like you just spent a half hour degaussing, just
to fuck with his head the next morning. (just kidding) (I
threw him a charged HV cap)

It never took more than a few minutes with the proper tool, which
proves that you are clueless about the process.

You gonna jump back onto your stupid fuck bandwagon, eh?


There you go on you presumptuous dumbfucktard mode again.

I was working on TVs back in the '80s, you fucking jackass, and I
used degaussing coils both purchased and lab built.

The process, properly done, includes checking the color
reproduction.
How many TVs did you actually set up properly? That means the color
bars and the blue film filter and the white balance and chrominance
and dot grid. Back then it took a special generator. In the '90s I
used a laser disc to fire my screens for calibration.

You are clueless about what I may or may not know about anything,
Mike.

You pulled this same shit years ago when you claimed I was never in
the service. You have no facts in that matter either.

And oh boy! I was off by a whole 15 minutes from your performance
mark. Wow, man... I really must not know anything about it.
Bullshit.

Anyone who tried a
stunt like that would have been fired on the spot.

Apparently you are also illiterate. I said I was just kidding,
dipshit.

Most TVs or
monitors could have the three screens calibrated, the CRT
degauused and a full convergence done in 15 minutes or less.

Not really. Convergence is easy. Proper color reproduction take a
bit longer. Besides, you are just spouting horseshit so you can pull
your immature denigration thing again.

Ironically, the so called 'video game techs' that I knew in SW
Ohio had been fired from better jobs.

This was not some game room, idiot. We were the sole distributor
for Bally/Midway east of the Miss. We moved 600 upright video games
a week at one point. Our technicians were real technicians.

One worked for me for less
than a week before I had to fire him from the Industrial
Electronics company that I owned.

Oh boy! More anecdotal bullshit crafted so you can do your
pathetic denigration thing.

Even then, he would stop by the
shop with a schematic and want us to tell him how to actually
repair a board that he couldn't just shotgun back to life.

Shame he couldn't just shotgun you back to dust.

> He had a pissy attitude just like yours,

Where in this thead di you see a pissy attitude? Oh, that's right,
the pissy attitude was introduced by you with this pissy dumbfuck
reply.

and I couldn't trust him
to work in the local schools. He mouthed off to the students, and
the girls complained about him.

I mouthed the throats of the female students and the boys
complained about me.

You remind me of the moron in HS that went around the shop classes
with a welding hammer to hit his classmates in their nuts.

I told you it was a joke, you retarded fuck.

Three
of them grabbed him as he was laughing at one of them that he had
just hit with it. They left him sobbing on the floor with that
hammer.

If I had a hammer, I would leave you at the bottom of a river. Any
sobbing would be the last air utterance from your mouth as you inhale
your H2O life reaper cocktail.

> We didn't put up with morons like you where anyone could get hurt.

You do not know anyhting about me, and the decidedly makes you the
moron.

It didn't matter if it was in school, on the job or in the
Military. You would have likely been fragged if you were sent to a
war zone.

You have serious mental issues, Mikey.

> You need to grow up.

Show me where I said something not mature?
The fact is that YOU need to learn how to read. And pretty much you
are hard wired immature and stupid and at your age, there is no
fixing that. Nce try though, putz.

I started a discussion with you and you spouted immature bullshit.
Maybe you should change your name to Donald J. Trump.

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2019-10-08, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org <DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org> wrote:

Michael Terrell <terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote in
news:e92d88ee-d658-440d-8f0d-eb54c686d2a9@googlegroups.com:

I rarely read your posts. Those so called techs weren't smart
enough to use a commercial grade degassing coil on the steel parts
of those games.

It was not just degaussing. It is a known issue with upright video
arcade game cabinets with big CRTs in them. Even some of the cocktail
units did it.

And they (some) had integrated degaussing coils on the tubes as well.

That smells like bullshit.

The earths magnetic field is not entirely horizontal in most locations.
and the electrons in the tube are moving too fast for gravity to
have much effect.

--
When I tried casting out nines I made a hash of it.

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2019-10-08, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote:

On 10/8/2019 12:58 PM, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

I don't know why you're talking about CRT TVs, when I specifically
mentioned LCD monitor in my original post. Just so there is no more
misunderstanding about which Samsung model it is, here is a link for it:

https://www.samsung.com/us/business/support/owners/product/2333hd-series-2333hd/

the "driver" constains a registry entry

HKR,"MODES\1920,1080",Mode1,,"30-81,56-75,+,+"

if I'm reading that correctly that means it does 30-81 kHz horizontal and 56-75 Hz vertical.

Which explains why it's not working with a PAL source.

--
When I tried casting out nines I made a hash of it.

 

Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in
news:qnjq2e$52t$3@gonzo.revmaps.no-ip.org:

On 2019-10-08, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org> wrote:
Michael Terrell <terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote in
news:e92d88ee-d658-440d-8f0d-eb54c686d2a9@googlegroups.com:

I rarely read your posts. Those so called techs weren't smart
enough to use a commercial grade degassing coil on the steel
parts of those games.

It was not just degaussing. It is a known issue with upright
video
arcade game cabinets with big CRTs in them. Even some of the
cocktail units did it.

And they (some) had integrated degaussing coils on the tubes as
well.

That smells like bullshit.

You are bullshit. Go check your upper lip, putz.

The earths magnetic field is not entirely horizontal in most
locations.

Don't be obtuse, boy. Spit it out.

and the electrons in the tube are moving too fast for
gravity to have much effect.

I never said anything about anything moving fast electrons.

You're an abject idiot.

 

[Martin Brown]

On 09/10/2019 06:09, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2019-10-08, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org <DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org> wrote:
Michael Terrell <terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote in
news:e92d88ee-d658-440d-8f0d-eb54c686d2a9@googlegroups.com:

I rarely read your posts. Those so called techs weren't smart
enough to use a commercial grade degassing coil on the steel parts
of those games.

It was not just degaussing. It is a known issue with upright video
arcade game cabinets with big CRTs in them. Even some of the cocktail
units did it.

And they (some) had integrated degaussing coils on the tubes as well.

That smells like bullshit.

I agree. If there was a significant problem with the Earth's magnetic
field affecting colour CRT TVs it would also affect them depending on
their orientation with respect to North in the home.

The Earth's magnetic field has a non-trivial vertical component which
varies with latitude. A more likely explanation for why big colour
monitors don't like being installed horizontal is that the shadow mask
support relies on gravity to be in its reference position.

The earths magnetic field is not entirely horizontal in most locations.
and the electrons in the tube are moving too fast for gravity to
have much effect.

It is only horizontal near the equator.
In the US and UK the dip angle varies from 30-35 degrees with latitude.

http://geokov.com/Education/magnetic-declination-inclination.aspx

--
Regards,
Martin Brown