HDMI in US and in EU

[Cameo]

On my recent move to Europe I also shipped an older Samsung LCD monitor
that I've been using as an external display with my laptop, using HDMI
connection. I also used it as a TV display via another HDMI connection
to a set top box. It was a very convenient setup, needing only a switch
of the video source.

I figured I could use that monitor in Europe, as HDMI standards should
be the same. To my disappointment though, the monitor would not display
the TV program from the set top box. Instead I get an error message that
says something about an unsupported mode. What mode is that? I know that
the TV standards are different, but I thought HDMI display makes it a
non-issue. Am I wrong?

 

Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in
news:qn81e8$s6n$1@dont-email.me:

On my recent move to Europe I also shipped an older Samsung LCD
monitor that I've been using as an external display with my
laptop, using HDMI connection. I also used it as a TV display via
another HDMI connection to a set top box. It was a very convenient
setup, needing only a switch of the video source.

I figured I could use that monitor in Europe, as HDMI standards
should be the same. To my disappointment though, the monitor would
not display the TV program from the set top box. Instead I get an
error message that says something about an unsupported mode. What
mode is that? I know that the TV standards are different, but I
thought HDMI display makes it a non-issue. Am I wrong?

European HD came out of the PAL days of the CRT era. So you will get
no set top box action with a US TV (sans some converter that may or
may not exist).

You should still be able to do laptop hookups though.

So, you need to instead of CONNECTING your TV with HDMI from the
set top box, make your device a hot spot, and log your TV onto it via
wifi or bluetooth. No wifi TV? Ohhh... back to the wire.

If the content you select (from a PC) then still wont play, then you
maybe need a different streaming player (VLC) because that should be
region independent

Your TV got no wifi? Amazon dot calm.

 

[Cameo]

On 2019. 10. 04. 20:16, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in
news:qn81e8$s6n$1@dont-email.me:

On my recent move to Europe I also shipped an older Samsung LCD
monitor that I've been using as an external display with my
laptop, using HDMI connection. I also used it as a TV display via
another HDMI connection to a set top box. It was a very convenient
setup, needing only a switch of the video source.

I figured I could use that monitor in Europe, as HDMI standards
should be the same. To my disappointment though, the monitor would
not display the TV program from the set top box. Instead I get an
error message that says something about an unsupported mode. What
mode is that? I know that the TV standards are different, but I
thought HDMI display makes it a non-issue. Am I wrong?


European HD came out of the PAL days of the CRT era. So you will get
no set top box action with a US TV (sans some converter that may or
may not exist).

You should still be able to do laptop hookups though.

So, you need to instead of CONNECTING your TV with HDMI from the
set top box, make your device a hot spot, and log your TV onto it via
wifi or bluetooth. No wifi TV? Ohhh... back to the wire.

If the content you select (from a PC) then still wont play, then you
maybe need a different streaming player (VLC) because that should be
region independent

Your TV got no wifi? Amazon dot calm.

This display monitor originally had a built in TV tuner that became
obsolete when Comcast started encrypting its channels. From that point
on I had to get the TV feed from their set top box via HDMI. Since it is
a fairly old set, it is not a smart TV but I like its display quality
and I still can use it as a 23" external monitor for my laptop.

 

[Martin Riddle]

On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 21:25:36 +0200, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote:

On 2019. 10. 04. 20:16, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in
news:qn81e8$s6n$1@dont-email.me:

On my recent move to Europe I also shipped an older Samsung LCD
monitor that I've been using as an external display with my
laptop, using HDMI connection. I also used it as a TV display via
another HDMI connection to a set top box. It was a very convenient
setup, needing only a switch of the video source.

I figured I could use that monitor in Europe, as HDMI standards
should be the same. To my disappointment though, the monitor would
not display the TV program from the set top box. Instead I get an
error message that says something about an unsupported mode. What
mode is that? I know that the TV standards are different, but I
thought HDMI display makes it a non-issue. Am I wrong?


European HD came out of the PAL days of the CRT era. So you will get
no set top box action with a US TV (sans some converter that may or
may not exist).

You should still be able to do laptop hookups though.

So, you need to instead of CONNECTING your TV with HDMI from the
set top box, make your device a hot spot, and log your TV onto it via
wifi or bluetooth. No wifi TV? Ohhh... back to the wire.

If the content you select (from a PC) then still wont play, then you
maybe need a different streaming player (VLC) because that should be
region independent

Your TV got no wifi? Amazon dot calm.

This display monitor originally had a built in TV tuner that became
obsolete when Comcast started encrypting its channels. From that point
on I had to get the TV feed from their set top box via HDMI. Since it is
a fairly old set, it is not a smart TV but I like its display quality
and I still can use it as a 23" external monitor for my laptop.

Apparently EU is PAL HDMI

Try this...
<https://www.amazon.com/s?k=pal+to+ntsc+hdmi+converter&hvadid=77996659592914&hvbmt=bb&hvdev=c&hvqmt=b&tag=mh0b-20&ref=pd_sl_6txrcxogy9_b>

Cheers

 

[Cameo]

On 2019. 10. 05. 3:24, Martin Riddle wrote:

On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 21:25:36 +0200, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote:

On 2019. 10. 04. 20:16, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in
news:qn81e8$s6n$1@dont-email.me:

On my recent move to Europe I also shipped an older Samsung LCD
monitor that I've been using as an external display with my
laptop, using HDMI connection. I also used it as a TV display via
another HDMI connection to a set top box. It was a very convenient
setup, needing only a switch of the video source.

I figured I could use that monitor in Europe, as HDMI standards
should be the same. To my disappointment though, the monitor would
not display the TV program from the set top box. Instead I get an
error message that says something about an unsupported mode. What
mode is that? I know that the TV standards are different, but I
thought HDMI display makes it a non-issue. Am I wrong?


European HD came out of the PAL days of the CRT era. So you will get
no set top box action with a US TV (sans some converter that may or
may not exist).

You should still be able to do laptop hookups though.

So, you need to instead of CONNECTING your TV with HDMI from the
set top box, make your device a hot spot, and log your TV onto it via
wifi or bluetooth. No wifi TV? Ohhh... back to the wire.

If the content you select (from a PC) then still wont play, then you
maybe need a different streaming player (VLC) because that should be
region independent

Your TV got no wifi? Amazon dot calm.

This display monitor originally had a built in TV tuner that became
obsolete when Comcast started encrypting its channels. From that point
on I had to get the TV feed from their set top box via HDMI. Since it is
a fairly old set, it is not a smart TV but I like its display quality
and I still can use it as a 23" external monitor for my laptop.

Apparently EU is PAL HDMI

Try this...
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=pal+to+ntsc+hdmi+converter&hvadid=77996659592914&hvbmt=bb&hvdev=c&hvqmt=b&tag=mh0b-20&ref=pd_sl_6txrcxogy9_b

Cheers

Thanks for the tip. I though there might be some converters to do that
but the cost of hem is sometimes more than buying a similar new PAL TV
would cost.

 

Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in
news:qn9rib$5e0$1@dont-email.me:

On 2019. 10. 05. 3:24, Martin Riddle wrote:
On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 21:25:36 +0200, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid
wrote:

On 2019. 10. 04. 20:16, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org
wrote:
Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in
news:qn81e8$s6n$1@dont-email.me:

On my recent move to Europe I also shipped an older Samsung
LCD monitor that I've been using as an external display with
my laptop, using HDMI connection. I also used it as a TV
display via another HDMI connection to a set top box. It was a
very convenient setup, needing only a switch of the video
source.

I figured I could use that monitor in Europe, as HDMI
standards should be the same. To my disappointment though, the
monitor would not display the TV program from the set top box.
Instead I get an error message that says something about an
unsupported mode. What mode is that? I know that the TV
standards are different, but I thought HDMI display makes it a
non-issue. Am I wrong?


European HD came out of the PAL days of the CRT era. So you
will get no set top box action with a US TV (sans some
converter that may or may not exist).

You should still be able to do laptop hookups though.

So, you need to instead of CONNECTING your TV with HDMI
from the
set top box, make your device a hot spot, and log your TV onto
it via wifi or bluetooth. No wifi TV? Ohhh... back to the
wire.

If the content you select (from a PC) then still wont play,
then you
maybe need a different streaming player (VLC) because that
should be region independent

Your TV got no wifi? Amazon dot calm.

This display monitor originally had a built in TV tuner that
became obsolete when Comcast started encrypting its channels.
From that point on I had to get the TV feed from their set top
box via HDMI. Since it is a fairly old set, it is not a smart TV
but I like its display quality and I still can use it as a 23"
external monitor for my laptop.

Apparently EU is PAL HDMI

Try this...
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=pal+to+ntsc+hdmi+converter&hvadid=7799
6659592914&hvbmt=bb&hvdev=c&hvqmt=b&tag=mh0b-20&ref=pd_sl_6txrcxog
y9_b

Cheers


Thanks for the tip. I though there might be some converters to do
that but the cost of hem is sometimes more than buying a similar
new PAL TV would cost.

Or the non pal tv that is smart and then you stream to the TV by
way of the TVs internet connection instead of paying for cable or the
set top box thing.

I would just get a nice 27" 4K computer display, but none of those
are smart. They sure are nice on resolution though.

But my cheap 55" last years model Samsung was only $350, and it is
sweet on video and rocks on connectivity.

 

[Cameo]

On 2019. 10. 05. 13:07, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in
news:qn9rib$5e0$1@dont-email.me:

On 2019. 10. 05. 3:24, Martin Riddle wrote:
On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 21:25:36 +0200, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid
wrote:

On 2019. 10. 04. 20:16, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org
wrote:
Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in
news:qn81e8$s6n$1@dont-email.me:

On my recent move to Europe I also shipped an older Samsung
LCD monitor that I've been using as an external display with
my laptop, using HDMI connection. I also used it as a TV
display via another HDMI connection to a set top box. It was a
very convenient setup, needing only a switch of the video
source.

I figured I could use that monitor in Europe, as HDMI
standards should be the same. To my disappointment though, the
monitor would not display the TV program from the set top box.
Instead I get an error message that says something about an
unsupported mode. What mode is that? I know that the TV
standards are different, but I thought HDMI display makes it a
non-issue. Am I wrong?


European HD came out of the PAL days of the CRT era. So you
will get no set top box action with a US TV (sans some
converter that may or may not exist).

You should still be able to do laptop hookups though.

So, you need to instead of CONNECTING your TV with HDMI
from the
set top box, make your device a hot spot, and log your TV onto
it via wifi or bluetooth. No wifi TV? Ohhh... back to the
wire.

If the content you select (from a PC) then still wont play,
then you
maybe need a different streaming player (VLC) because that
should be region independent

Your TV got no wifi? Amazon dot calm.

This display monitor originally had a built in TV tuner that
became obsolete when Comcast started encrypting its channels.
From that point on I had to get the TV feed from their set top
box via HDMI. Since it is a fairly old set, it is not a smart TV
but I like its display quality and I still can use it as a 23"
external monitor for my laptop.

Apparently EU is PAL HDMI

Try this...
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=pal+to+ntsc+hdmi+converter&hvadid=7799
6659592914&hvbmt=bb&hvdev=c&hvqmt=b&tag=mh0b-20&ref=pd_sl_6txrcxog
y9_b

Cheers


Thanks for the tip. I though there might be some converters to do
that but the cost of hem is sometimes more than buying a similar
new PAL TV would cost.




Or the non pal tv that is smart and then you stream to the TV by
way of the TVs internet connection instead of paying for cable or the
set top box thing.

I would just get a nice 27" 4K computer display, but none of those
are smart. They sure are nice on resolution though.

But my cheap 55" last years model Samsung was only $350, and it is
sweet on video and rocks on connectivity.

Yes, those 55"-ers nice. I bought a 4K 49" QLED smart TV from Samsung a
couple weeks ago and that also uses IP connection. I am still trying to
figure out all its features and how to use them.

 

[Cameo]

On 2019. 10. 05. 13:07, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in
news:qn9rib$5e0$1@dont-email.me:

On 2019. 10. 05. 3:24, Martin Riddle wrote:
On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 21:25:36 +0200, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid
wrote:

On 2019. 10. 04. 20:16, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org
wrote:
Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in
news:qn81e8$s6n$1@dont-email.me:

On my recent move to Europe I also shipped an older Samsung
LCD monitor that I've been using as an external display with
my laptop, using HDMI connection. I also used it as a TV
display via another HDMI connection to a set top box. It was a
very convenient setup, needing only a switch of the video
source.

I figured I could use that monitor in Europe, as HDMI
standards should be the same. To my disappointment though, the
monitor would not display the TV program from the set top box.
Instead I get an error message that says something about an
unsupported mode. What mode is that? I know that the TV
standards are different, but I thought HDMI display makes it a
non-issue. Am I wrong?


European HD came out of the PAL days of the CRT era. So you
will get no set top box action with a US TV (sans some
converter that may or may not exist).

You should still be able to do laptop hookups though.

So, you need to instead of CONNECTING your TV with HDMI
from the
set top box, make your device a hot spot, and log your TV onto
it via wifi or bluetooth. No wifi TV? Ohhh... back to the
wire.

If the content you select (from a PC) then still wont play,
then you
maybe need a different streaming player (VLC) because that
should be region independent

Your TV got no wifi? Amazon dot calm.

This display monitor originally had a built in TV tuner that
became obsolete when Comcast started encrypting its channels.
From that point on I had to get the TV feed from their set top
box via HDMI. Since it is a fairly old set, it is not a smart TV
but I like its display quality and I still can use it as a 23"
external monitor for my laptop.

Apparently EU is PAL HDMI

Try this...
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=pal+to+ntsc+hdmi+converter&hvadid=7799
6659592914&hvbmt=bb&hvdev=c&hvqmt=b&tag=mh0b-20&ref=pd_sl_6txrcxog
y9_b

Cheers


Thanks for the tip. I though there might be some converters to do
that but the cost of hem is sometimes more than buying a similar
new PAL TV would cost.




Or the non pal tv that is smart and then you stream to the TV by
way of the TVs internet connection instead of paying for cable or the
set top box thing.

I would just get a nice 27" 4K computer display, but none of those
are smart. They sure are nice on resolution though.

But my cheap 55" last years model Samsung was only $350, and it is
sweet on video and rocks on connectivity.

Here is what I don't get about HDMI. If I can't use an NTSC TV set with
HDMI connection in Europe due to the PAL TV standard, would I still be
able to use my laptop's HDMI output to display on a PAL TV set through
its HDMI input source? My purpose is to have a TV set with dual purpose:
to display PAL TV programming, and to act as an external monitor for my
laptop via HDMI cable. My current 23" NTSC TV set worked great in such
dual role in the US. Unfortunately now I can only use it as an external
display. I don't want to buy a new PAL TV set here and then find out
that it would not display the screen of my laptop that was made for the
US market.


Tv set in

 

[Martin Brown]

On 06/10/2019 16:22, Cameo wrote:

On 2019. 10. 05. 13:07, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in
news:qn9rib$5e0$1@dont-email.me:

   But my cheap 55" last years model Samsung was only $350, and it is
sweet on video and rocks on connectivity.

Here is what I don't get about HDMI. If I can't use an NTSC TV set with
HDMI connection in Europe due to the PAL TV standard, would I still be
able to use my laptop's HDMI output to display on a PAL TV set through
its HDMI input source? My purpose is to have a TV set with dual purpose:
to display PAL TV programming, and to act as an external monitor for my
laptop via HDMI cable. My current 23" NTSC TV set worked great in such
dual role in the US. Unfortunately now I can only use it as an external
display. I don't want to buy a new PAL TV set here and then find out
that it would not display the screen of my laptop that was made for the
US market.

You may have to try it out in a store to be certain.

https://www.lifewire.com/why-ntsc-and-pal-still-matter-1847856

> Tv set in

Some may well be OK about what they accept. Many DVD players sold in UK
supermarkets can be chipped to play US zoned content and there wouldn't
be much point if TVs couldn't play them. Some freeview tuners have a PAL
or NTSC output setting hidden in the nest of menus somewhere.

Tottenham Court road used to be the place to go for properly chipped
multi-standard kit in the UK. NASA went to them to get region free
chipped DVD players for the ISS.

On a laptop you may well be able to tweek things to work by setting a
50Hz frame rate even if the UK TV cannot accommodate US 60Hz inputs.

I can't really comment on which are and which are not since my TV is
multi-standard - I have lived overseas in NTSC(Japan).

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in
news:qnd0s9$kqp$1@dont-email.me:

On 2019. 10. 05. 13:07, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org
wrote:
Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in
news:qn9rib$5e0$1@dont-email.me:

On 2019. 10. 05. 3:24, Martin Riddle wrote:
On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 21:25:36 +0200, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid
wrote:

On 2019. 10. 04. 20:16,
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in
news:qn81e8$s6n$1@dont-email.me:

On my recent move to Europe I also shipped an older Samsung
LCD monitor that I've been using as an external display with
my laptop, using HDMI connection. I also used it as a TV
display via another HDMI connection to a set top box. It was
a very convenient setup, needing only a switch of the video
source.

I figured I could use that monitor in Europe, as HDMI
standards should be the same. To my disappointment though,
the monitor would not display the TV program from the set
top box. Instead I get an error message that says something
about an unsupported mode. What mode is that? I know that
the TV standards are different, but I thought HDMI display
makes it a non-issue. Am I wrong?


European HD came out of the PAL days of the CRT era. So you
will get no set top box action with a US TV (sans some
converter that may or may not exist).

You should still be able to do laptop hookups though.

So, you need to instead of CONNECTING your TV with HDMI
from the
set top box, make your device a hot spot, and log your TV
onto it via wifi or bluetooth. No wifi TV? Ohhh... back to
the wire.

If the content you select (from a PC) then still wont
play, then you
maybe need a different streaming player (VLC) because that
should be region independent

Your TV got no wifi? Amazon dot calm.

This display monitor originally had a built in TV tuner that
became obsolete when Comcast started encrypting its channels.
From that point on I had to get the TV feed from their set
top
box via HDMI. Since it is a fairly old set, it is not a smart
TV but I like its display quality and I still can use it as a
23" external monitor for my laptop.

Apparently EU is PAL HDMI

Try this...
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=pal+to+ntsc+hdmi+converter&hvadid=77
99
6659592914&hvbmt=bb&hvdev=c&hvqmt=b&tag=mh0b-20&ref=pd_sl_6txrcx
og y9_b

Cheers


Thanks for the tip. I though there might be some converters to
do that but the cost of hem is sometimes more than buying a
similar new PAL TV would cost.




Or the non pal tv that is smart and then you stream to the TV
by
way of the TVs internet connection instead of paying for cable or
the set top box thing.

I would just get a nice 27" 4K computer display, but none of
those
are smart. They sure are nice on resolution though.

But my cheap 55" last years model Samsung was only $350, and
it is
sweet on video and rocks on connectivity.

Here is what I don't get about HDMI. If I can't use an NTSC TV set
with HDMI connection in Europe due to the PAL TV standard, would I
still be able to use my laptop's HDMI output to display on a PAL
TV set through its HDMI input source? My purpose is to have a TV
set with dual purpose: to display PAL TV programming, and to act
as an external monitor for my laptop via HDMI cable. My current
23" NTSC TV set worked great in such dual role in the US.
Unfortunately now I can only use it as an external display. I
don't want to buy a new PAL TV set here and then find out that it
would not display the screen of my laptop that was made for the
US market.


Tv set in

Usually the windows driver settings should have something for your
video card that allows you to chose the output mode.

 

Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
news:4f7f27b1-d64c-4f1f-8316-ea44343ee675@googlegroups.com:

I have been reading this thread and I have to say i don't
understand what anyone is talking about with PAL HDMI and NTSC
HDMI. What exactly is the difference???

Ask Terrell.

I cannot believe that you do not know the difference between PAL and
NTSC.

There were even tuners out there that could do both in the end of the
standard resolution days. That was decades ago. Where the fuck have
you been all the while claiming to be an electronics dude?

 

[Rick C]

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 11:22:54 AM UTC-4, Cameo wrote:

On 2019. 10. 05. 13:07, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in
news:qn9rib$5e0$1@dont-email.me:

On 2019. 10. 05. 3:24, Martin Riddle wrote:
On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 21:25:36 +0200, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid
wrote:

On 2019. 10. 04. 20:16, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org
wrote:
Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in
news:qn81e8$s6n$1@dont-email.me:

On my recent move to Europe I also shipped an older Samsung
LCD monitor that I've been using as an external display with
my laptop, using HDMI connection. I also used it as a TV
display via another HDMI connection to a set top box. It was a
very convenient setup, needing only a switch of the video
source.

I figured I could use that monitor in Europe, as HDMI
standards should be the same. To my disappointment though, the
monitor would not display the TV program from the set top box.
Instead I get an error message that says something about an
unsupported mode. What mode is that? I know that the TV
standards are different, but I thought HDMI display makes it a
non-issue. Am I wrong?


European HD came out of the PAL days of the CRT era. So you
will get no set top box action with a US TV (sans some
converter that may or may not exist).

You should still be able to do laptop hookups though.

So, you need to instead of CONNECTING your TV with HDMI
from the
set top box, make your device a hot spot, and log your TV onto
it via wifi or bluetooth. No wifi TV? Ohhh... back to the
wire.

If the content you select (from a PC) then still wont play,
then you
maybe need a different streaming player (VLC) because that
should be region independent

Your TV got no wifi? Amazon dot calm.

This display monitor originally had a built in TV tuner that
became obsolete when Comcast started encrypting its channels.
From that point on I had to get the TV feed from their set top
box via HDMI. Since it is a fairly old set, it is not a smart TV
but I like its display quality and I still can use it as a 23"
external monitor for my laptop.

Apparently EU is PAL HDMI

Try this...
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=pal+to+ntsc+hdmi+converter&hvadid=7799
6659592914&hvbmt=bb&hvdev=c&hvqmt=b&tag=mh0b-20&ref=pd_sl_6txrcxog
y9_b

Cheers


Thanks for the tip. I though there might be some converters to do
that but the cost of hem is sometimes more than buying a similar
new PAL TV would cost.




Or the non pal tv that is smart and then you stream to the TV by
way of the TVs internet connection instead of paying for cable or the
set top box thing.

I would just get a nice 27" 4K computer display, but none of those
are smart. They sure are nice on resolution though.

But my cheap 55" last years model Samsung was only $350, and it is
sweet on video and rocks on connectivity.

Here is what I don't get about HDMI. If I can't use an NTSC TV set with
HDMI connection in Europe due to the PAL TV standard, would I still be
able to use my laptop's HDMI output to display on a PAL TV set through
its HDMI input source? My purpose is to have a TV set with dual purpose:
to display PAL TV programming, and to act as an external monitor for my
laptop via HDMI cable. My current 23" NTSC TV set worked great in such
dual role in the US. Unfortunately now I can only use it as an external
display. I don't want to buy a new PAL TV set here and then find out
that it would not display the screen of my laptop that was made for the
US market.


Tv set in

I have been reading this thread and I have to say i don't understand what anyone is talking about with PAL HDMI and NTSC HDMI. What exactly is the difference???

--

Rick C.

- Get 2,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

On Sunday, 6 October 2019 23:07:12 UTC+1, Rick C wrote:

> I have been reading this thread and I have to say i don't understand what anyone is talking about with PAL HDMI and NTSC HDMI. What exactly is the difference???

The issue with HD material is likely to be that two frame rates are
used, 25Hz in Europe and about 30Hz in the USA. Some displays will
only operate on one of those display rates.

With standard definition material there are also differences in
horizontal and vertical resolution. Many televisions and monitors
will support all the widely used standards but some are only able
to work with material from their region.

PAL got its name from the reversal of the phase of the colour
subcarrier between adjacent lines in analogue broadcasts and video
recordings. This was done to avoid the hue errors common in NTSC
which were caused by phase errors in the colour subcarrier.
The human visual system averaged the hue errors when adjacent lines
had opposite errors in PAL due to the phase reversals.
The frequency of the colour subcarrier was carefully chosen so that
it sits between spectral peaks in static images (but less so for
fast moving images). This allowed colour to be added on top of
monochrome broadcasts without breaking the existing monochrome
receivers or requiring more bandwdth and therefore changes in transmitter
frequencies.

Nowadays none of this is generally relevant because the colour
components are separately encoded rather than using a colour
subcarrier kludged on top of a monochrome signal. However, the
historical frame rates have persisted. Note that at standard definition
a frame is sent in two parts, with each field carrying every other
line, giving a field rate of 50 or almost 60Hz, while the frame rate
is 25 or almost 30Hz. This reduces flicker on CRT dispalys.

John

 

[Martin Brown]

On 06/10/2019 23:07, Rick C wrote:

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 11:22:54 AM UTC-4, Cameo wrote:
On 2019. 10. 05. 13:07, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org
wrote:
Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in
news:qn9rib$5e0$1@dont-email.me:

On 2019. 10. 05. 3:24, Martin Riddle wrote:
On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 21:25:36 +0200, Cameo
cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote:

On 2019. 10. 04. 20:16,
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in
news:qn81e8$s6n$1@dont-email.me:

On my recent move to Europe I also shipped an older
Samsung LCD monitor that I've been using as an external
display with my laptop, using HDMI connection. I also
used it as a TV display via another HDMI connection to
a set top box. It was a very convenient setup, needing
only a switch of the video source.

I figured I could use that monitor in Europe, as HDMI
standards should be the same. To my disappointment
though, the monitor would not display the TV program
from the set top box. Instead I get an error message
that says something about an unsupported mode. What
mode is that? I know that the TV standards are
different, but I thought HDMI display makes it a
non-issue. Am I wrong?


European HD came out of the PAL days of the CRT era. So
you will get no set top box action with a US TV (sans
some converter that may or may not exist).

You should still be able to do laptop hookups though.

So, you need to instead of CONNECTING your TV with HDMI
from the set top box, make your device a hot spot, and
log your TV onto it via wifi or bluetooth. No wifi TV?
Ohhh... back to the wire.

If the content you select (from a PC) then still wont
play, then you maybe need a different streaming player
(VLC) because that should be region independent

Your TV got no wifi? Amazon dot calm.

This display monitor originally had a built in TV tuner
that became obsolete when Comcast started encrypting its
channels. From that point on I had to get the TV feed from
their set top box via HDMI. Since it is a fairly old set,
it is not a smart TV but I like its display quality and I
still can use it as a 23" external monitor for my laptop.

Apparently EU is PAL HDMI

Try this...
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=pal+to+ntsc+hdmi+converter&hvadid=7799


6659592914&hvbmt=bb&hvdev=c&hvqmt=b&tag=mh0b-20&ref=pd_sl_6txrcxog
y9_b

Cheers


Thanks for the tip. I though there might be some converters to
do that but the cost of hem is sometimes more than buying a
similar new PAL TV would cost.




Or the non pal tv that is smart and then you stream to the TV by
way of the TVs internet connection instead of paying for cable or
the set top box thing.

I would just get a nice 27" 4K computer display, but none of
those are smart. They sure are nice on resolution though.

But my cheap 55" last years model Samsung was only $350, and it
is sweet on video and rocks on connectivity.

Here is what I don't get about HDMI. If I can't use an NTSC TV set
with HDMI connection in Europe due to the PAL TV standard, would I
still be able to use my laptop's HDMI output to display on a PAL TV
set through its HDMI input source? My purpose is to have a TV set
with dual purpose: to display PAL TV programming, and to act as an
external monitor for my laptop via HDMI cable. My current 23" NTSC
TV set worked great in such dual role in the US. Unfortunately now
I can only use it as an external display. I don't want to buy a new
PAL TV set here and then find out that it would not display the
screen of my laptop that was made for the US market.


Tv set in

I have been reading this thread and I have to say i don't understand
what anyone is talking about with PAL HDMI and NTSC HDMI. What
exactly is the difference???

Frame rate is the most obvious difference between US NTSC and UK PAL is
60Hz vs 50Hz mains leading to 30Hz or 25Hz when interlaced.

In the past the most obvious difference was that US newscasters would
have creepy chameleon skin drifting between pale purple and green
whereas PAL is self compensating for drift. I thought this was an
intrinsic failing of NTSC (jokingly called Never Twice the Same Colour)
until I saw the Japanese implementation of it which actually works.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[Rick C]

On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 6:35:17 PM UTC-4, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
news:4f7f27b1-d64c-4f1f-8316-ea44343ee675@googlegroups.com:

I have been reading this thread and I have to say i don't
understand what anyone is talking about with PAL HDMI and NTSC
HDMI. What exactly is the difference???


Ask Terrell.

I cannot believe that you do not know the difference between PAL and
NTSC.

There were even tuners out there that could do both in the end of the
standard resolution days. That was decades ago. Where the fuck have
you been all the while claiming to be an electronics dude?

I know the difference between PAL and NTSC, I don't what either of them have to do with HDMI.

I was wondering why the response was so vitriolic. Then I saw who it was from. Duh!

--

Rick C.

+ Get 2,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Monday, October 7, 2019 at 5:53:34 AM UTC-4, jrwal...@gmail.com wrote:

On Sunday, 6 October 2019 23:07:12 UTC+1, Rick C wrote:

I have been reading this thread and I have to say i don't understand what anyone is talking about with PAL HDMI and NTSC HDMI. What exactly is the difference???

The issue with HD material is likely to be that two frame rates are
used, 25Hz in Europe and about 30Hz in the USA. Some displays will
only operate on one of those display rates.

That the frame rate would be a problem blows me away. It has got to be a trivial thing to make the HDMI TV work at both rates. In fact it seems it would be more hassle to build a TV that WON'T work at both rates and to have to design TVs for different markets than to just build a single TV set they can sell world wide. Rather like the manuals that come with many products written in so many different languages.

With standard definition material there are also differences in
horizontal and vertical resolution. Many televisions and monitors
will support all the widely used standards but some are only able
to work with material from their region.

Same sort of amazement. It's not like it is a big deal to support multiple resolutions. Once you have the basic technology and it is designed into a chip, I would think the difference would be so minor that it's more practical to include the same chip in fewer different TVs. Sort of like the old days when VCRs had several capabilities but the cheaper models had them turned off with a jumper. Same with oscilloscopes. The hardware supports the full bandwidth, the software limits it for the lower models.

Thanks for the info.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 2,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Martin Brown]

On 05/10/2019 11:33, Cameo wrote:

On 2019. 10. 05. 3:24, Martin Riddle wrote:
On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 21:25:36 +0200, Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote:

On 2019. 10. 04. 20:16, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in
news:qn81e8$s6n$1@dont-email.me:

On my recent move to Europe I also shipped an older Samsung LCD
monitor that I've been using as an external display with my
laptop, using HDMI connection. I also used it as a TV display via
another HDMI connection to a set top box. It was a very convenient
setup, needing only a switch of the video source.

I figured I could use that monitor in Europe, as HDMI standards
should be the same. To my disappointment though, the monitor would
not display the TV program from the set top box. Instead I get an
error message that says something about an unsupported mode. What
mode is that? I know that the TV standards are different, but I
thought HDMI display makes it a non-issue. Am I wrong?

Check the set top box on another TV you may be able to configure it to
work with an NTSC set somewhere in the deeper menus.

European HD came out of the PAL days of the CRT era.  So you will get
no set top box action with a US TV (sans some converter that may or
may not exist).

    You should still be able to do laptop hookups though.

    So, you need to instead of CONNECTING your TV with HDMI from the
set top box, make your device a hot spot, and log your TV onto it via
wifi or bluetooth.  No wifi TV?  Ohhh...  back to the wire.

   If the content you select (from a PC) then still wont play, then you
maybe need a different streaming player (VLC) because that should be
region independent

   Your TV got no wifi?  Amazon dot calm.

This display monitor originally had a built in TV tuner that became
obsolete when Comcast started encrypting its channels. From that point
on I had to get the TV feed from their set top box via HDMI. Since it is
a fairly old set, it is not a smart TV but I like its display quality
and I still can use it as a 23" external monitor for my laptop.

Apparently EU is PAL HDMI

Try this...
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=pal+to+ntsc+hdmi+converter&hvadid=77996659592914&hvbmt=bb&hvdev=c&hvqmt=b&tag=mh0b-20&ref=pd_sl_6txrcxogy9_b


Cheers


Thanks for the tip. I though there might be some converters to do that
but the cost of hem is sometimes more than buying a similar new PAL TV
would cost.

No guarantees that it will do what you want but this one is a fair bit
cheaper. You have to remember that most people doing this sort of thing
in the UK are doing it to play Region 1 coded DVDs on a UK PAL TV.

https://www.searchelectronics.co.uk/product/xcsource-hdmi-to-scart-converter-convert-av-cvbs-signal-adapter-play-on-crt-tv-vhs-vcr-dvd-support-ntsc-pal-ah149/

Plus a suitable cable for sound & video eg.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hama-43178-Video-Cable-Scart-black/dp/B00006JCXU/ref=sr_1_6?hvadid=80882916486297&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvqmt=e&keywords=rgb+scart+cable&qid=1570458402&sr=8-6

SCART is a relatively old European standard that has analogue video and
sound as a part of the pinout. I have a feeling that US sets do not have
anything like SCART because it makes copying material just too easy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCART

You can also get it to interface with component video on a good day.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
news:c39136a8-caf9-4fb4-bb45-aceed94df153@googlegroups.com:

On Monday, October 7, 2019 at 5:53:34 AM UTC-4, jrwal...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Sunday, 6 October 2019 23:07:12 UTC+1, Rick C wrote:

I have been reading this thread and I have to say i don't
understand wh
at anyone is talking about with PAL HDMI and NTSC HDMI. What
exactly is the difference???

The issue with HD material is likely to be that two frame rates
are used, 25Hz in Europe and about 30Hz in the USA. Some
displays will only operate on one of those display rates.

That the frame rate would be a problem blows me away. It has got
to be a trivial thing to make the HDMI TV work at both rates. In
fact it seems it would be more hassle to build a TV that WON'T
work at both rates and to have to design TVs for different markets
than to just build a single TV set they can sell world wide.
Rather like the manuals that come with many products written in so
many different languages.


With standard definition material there are also differences in
horizontal and vertical resolution. Many televisions and
monitors will support all the widely used standards but some are
only able to work with material from their region.

Same sort of amazement. It's not like it is a big deal to support
multiple resolutions. Once you have the basic technology and it
is designed into a chip, I would think the difference would be so
minor that it's more practical to include the same chip in fewer
different TVs. Sort of like the old days when VCRs had several
capabilities but the cheaper models had them turned off with a
jumper. Same with oscilloscopes. The hardware supports the full
bandwidth, the software limits it for the lower models.

Thanks for the info.

https://www.lifewire.com/why-ntsc-and-pal-still-matter-1847856

 

Michael Terrell <terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote in
news:1a0f4033-692f-4529-b8aa-cadf2a442053@googlegroups.com:

On Monday, October 7, 2019 at 7:05:00 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown
wrote:
On 06/10/2019 23:07, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 11:22:54 AM UTC-4, Cameo wrote:
On 2019. 10. 05. 13:07,
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in
news:qn9rib$5e0$1@dont-email.me:

On 2019. 10. 05. 3:24, Martin Riddle wrote:
On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 21:25:36 +0200, Cameo
cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote:

On 2019. 10. 04. 20:16,
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in
news:qn81e8$s6n$1@dont-email.me:

On my recent move to Europe I also shipped an older
Samsung LCD monitor that I've been using as an external
display with my laptop, using HDMI connection. I also
used it as a TV display via another HDMI connection to
a set top box. It was a very convenient setup, needing
only a switch of the video source.

I figured I could use that monitor in Europe, as HDMI
standards should be the same. To my disappointment
though, the monitor would not display the TV program
from the set top box. Instead I get an error message
that says something about an unsupported mode. What
mode is that? I know that the TV standards are
different, but I thought HDMI display makes it a
non-issue. Am I wrong?


European HD came out of the PAL days of the CRT era. So
you will get no set top box action with a US TV (sans
some converter that may or may not exist).

You should still be able to do laptop hookups though.

So, you need to instead of CONNECTING your TV with HDMI
from the set top box, make your device a hot spot, and
log your TV onto it via wifi or bluetooth. No wifi TV?
Ohhh... back to the wire.

If the content you select (from a PC) then still wont
play, then you maybe need a different streaming player
(VLC) because that should be region independent

Your TV got no wifi? Amazon dot calm.

This display monitor originally had a built in TV tuner
that became obsolete when Comcast started encrypting its
channels. From that point on I had to get the TV feed from
their set top box via HDMI. Since it is a fairly old set,
it is not a smart TV but I like its display quality and I
still can use it as a 23" external monitor for my laptop.

Apparently EU is PAL HDMI

Try this...
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=pal+to+ntsc+hdmi+converter&hvadi
d=7
799


6659592914&hvbmt=bb&hvdev=c&hvqmt=b&tag=mh0b-20&ref=pd_sl_6txrc
xog
y9_b

Cheers


Thanks for the tip. I though there might be some converters
to do that but the cost of hem is sometimes more than buying
a similar new PAL TV would cost.




Or the non pal tv that is smart and then you stream to the TV
by way of the TVs internet connection instead of paying for
cable or the set top box thing.

I would just get a nice 27" 4K computer display, but none of
those are smart. They sure are nice on resolution though.

But my cheap 55" last years model Samsung was only $350, and
it is sweet on video and rocks on connectivity.

Here is what I don't get about HDMI. If I can't use an NTSC TV
set with HDMI connection in Europe due to the PAL TV standard,
would I still be able to use my laptop's HDMI output to
display on a PAL TV set through its HDMI input source? My
purpose is to have a TV set with dual purpose: to display PAL
TV programming, and to act as an external monitor for my
laptop via HDMI cable. My current 23" NTSC TV set worked great
in such dual role in the US. Unfortunately now I can only use
it as an external display. I don't want to buy a new PAL TV
set here and then find out that it would not display the
screen of my laptop that was made for the US market.


Tv set in

I have been reading this thread and I have to say i don't
understand what anyone is talking about with PAL HDMI and NTSC
HDMI. What exactly is the difference???

Frame rate is the most obvious difference between US NTSC and UK
PAL is

60Hz vs 50Hz mains leading to 30Hz or 25Hz when interlaced.

In the past the most obvious difference was that US newscasters
would have creepy chameleon skin drifting between pale purple and
green whereas PAL is self compensating for drift. I thought this
was an intrinsic failing of NTSC (jokingly called Never Twice the
Same Colour)

until I saw the Japanese implementation of it which actually
works.


Our first color TV was bought new in the mid '60s. It was a first
production run of the Motorola Quasar. A modular solid state NTSC
set. The color didn't drift on it. That was about 53 years ago.
The only sets that I saw drift were in need of repair or
alignment. Some stations were so poorly maintained that their sync
generators drifted. A station in Dayton Ohio broadcast a live show
tit one camera that was improperly converged. (The original Phil
Donahue show.)

Nationwide network feeds did have problems, due to the multiple
hop microwave relays, and buried coaxial distribution. The staff
could trim the chroma phase and level at each station in the path,
until VITS and VIR were added to the system to automate the task
and remove individual humans from the process.

Upright video games suffered from effects caused by the Earth's
magnetic field, and would color shift depending on which way they
were oriented in the game room. Another element of the huge notable
shift was the fact that the CRT screens were tipped back on an angle
from the vertical, which I think amplifies the unwanted effect.

We had to tell some game room operators that a certain game needed
to face a different direction or be placed at a different location in
the room. Some were not happy as a PacMan could take in $300 a week
back in the day when $300 was a lot of money. Placement was
important.

 

[Michael Terrell]

On Monday, October 7, 2019 at 7:05:00 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:

On 06/10/2019 23:07, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 11:22:54 AM UTC-4, Cameo wrote:
On 2019. 10. 05. 13:07, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org
wrote:
Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in
news:qn9rib$5e0$1@dont-email.me:

On 2019. 10. 05. 3:24, Martin Riddle wrote:
On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 21:25:36 +0200, Cameo
cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote:

On 2019. 10. 04. 20:16,
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
Cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in
news:qn81e8$s6n$1@dont-email.me:

On my recent move to Europe I also shipped an older
Samsung LCD monitor that I've been using as an external
display with my laptop, using HDMI connection. I also
used it as a TV display via another HDMI connection to
a set top box. It was a very convenient setup, needing
only a switch of the video source.

I figured I could use that monitor in Europe, as HDMI
standards should be the same. To my disappointment
though, the monitor would not display the TV program
from the set top box. Instead I get an error message
that says something about an unsupported mode. What
mode is that? I know that the TV standards are
different, but I thought HDMI display makes it a
non-issue. Am I wrong?


European HD came out of the PAL days of the CRT era. So
you will get no set top box action with a US TV (sans
some converter that may or may not exist).

You should still be able to do laptop hookups though.

So, you need to instead of CONNECTING your TV with HDMI
from the set top box, make your device a hot spot, and
log your TV onto it via wifi or bluetooth. No wifi TV?
Ohhh... back to the wire.

If the content you select (from a PC) then still wont
play, then you maybe need a different streaming player
(VLC) because that should be region independent

Your TV got no wifi? Amazon dot calm.

This display monitor originally had a built in TV tuner
that became obsolete when Comcast started encrypting its
channels. From that point on I had to get the TV feed from
their set top box via HDMI. Since it is a fairly old set,
it is not a smart TV but I like its display quality and I
still can use it as a 23" external monitor for my laptop.

Apparently EU is PAL HDMI

Try this...
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=pal+to+ntsc+hdmi+converter&hvadid=7799


6659592914&hvbmt=bb&hvdev=c&hvqmt=b&tag=mh0b-20&ref=pd_sl_6txrcxog
y9_b

Cheers


Thanks for the tip. I though there might be some converters to
do that but the cost of hem is sometimes more than buying a
similar new PAL TV would cost.




Or the non pal tv that is smart and then you stream to the TV by
way of the TVs internet connection instead of paying for cable or
the set top box thing.

I would just get a nice 27" 4K computer display, but none of
those are smart. They sure are nice on resolution though.

But my cheap 55" last years model Samsung was only $350, and it
is sweet on video and rocks on connectivity.

Here is what I don't get about HDMI. If I can't use an NTSC TV set
with HDMI connection in Europe due to the PAL TV standard, would I
still be able to use my laptop's HDMI output to display on a PAL TV
set through its HDMI input source? My purpose is to have a TV set
with dual purpose: to display PAL TV programming, and to act as an
external monitor for my laptop via HDMI cable. My current 23" NTSC
TV set worked great in such dual role in the US. Unfortunately now
I can only use it as an external display. I don't want to buy a new
PAL TV set here and then find out that it would not display the
screen of my laptop that was made for the US market.


Tv set in

I have been reading this thread and I have to say i don't understand
what anyone is talking about with PAL HDMI and NTSC HDMI. What
exactly is the difference???

Frame rate is the most obvious difference between US NTSC and UK PAL is
60Hz vs 50Hz mains leading to 30Hz or 25Hz when interlaced.

In the past the most obvious difference was that US newscasters would
have creepy chameleon skin drifting between pale purple and green
whereas PAL is self compensating for drift. I thought this was an
intrinsic failing of NTSC (jokingly called Never Twice the Same Colour)
until I saw the Japanese implementation of it which actually works.

Our first color TV was bought new in the mid '60s. It was a first production run of the Motorola Quasar. A modular solid state NTSC set. The color didn't drift on it. That was about 53 years ago. The only sets that I saw drift were in need of repair or alignment. Some stations were so poorly maintained that their sync generators drifted. A station in Dayton Ohio broadcast a live show tit one camera that was improperly converged. (The original Phil Donahue show.)

Nationwide network feeds did have problems, due to the multiple hop microwave relays, and buried coaxial distribution. The staff could trim the chroma phase and level at each station in the path, until VITS and VIR were added to the system to automate the task and remove individual humans from the process.