FTL evidence patent Einstein false science .................

[John Fields]

On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 02:38:33 +0200, Roger Johansson <no-email@home.se>
wrote:

John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

Now, if you calculate 10C with C = 2E9m/s, (the slower of the two
possibilities) the Vp through the cable comes out to 20E10, still faster
^^^^^
20E9, 2E10

2.998*10^8 m/s, or roughly 3E8 m/s

---
Yes, thanks.

I've memorized 300 million meters per second, and messed up with the
decimal.
---

or exactly 1 lightyear per year, (for cosmological calculation it can
be advantageous to have the speed of light as 1, it makes many
calculations a lot easier).

---
What I think is amazing is that the length of the meter comes so very
close to being integer-related to the speed of light with (AFAIK) no
a priori knowledge of C. Bodes well for the metric system.

--
John Fields

 

[John Fields]

On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:52:46 -0400, Keith R. Williams
<krw@attglobal.net> wrote:

My panties certainly aren't bunched. They remain in my wife's
drawers. ;-)

---
Your wife wears your panties in her drawers? That's unusual!^)
---

In the first place, Orman stated that his cable is basically a piece of
50 ohm cable similar to RG-58, and that the velocity of propagation of
EM through his cable is 10C.

10C = 10*C, where 'C' is a universal constant, not subject to
municipal nor HOA rules.

---
Well, let's see...

Let's say that I have an RF pulse generator generating 1GHz pulses 1ľs
wide and that the output of the generator is connected, through a
splitter, to an antenna and to a 100 meter length of coaxial cable
terminated in its characteristic impedance. Let's also say that the
cable is extended to its full length and that one vertical amplifier of
a fast oscilloscope is connected to the far end of the cable. let's
also say that we have an antenna physically separated from the
transmitting antenna by 100 meters and that it's connected to another
vertical amplifier input of the scope.

Now let's start sending pulses and sync the scope to the leading edge of
the first cycle of each pulse it receives.

I believe you will notice that the pulse from the cable arrives at the
scope quite a bit later than the pulse from the antenna, which would not
be the case if C was constant.
---

Now, because of the way he worded it, 10C could be taken to mean 10C
with reference to C in vacuo (3E9 meters per second) or C in the
dielectric of a piece of RG-58 cable, about 2E9 meters per second.

Ok, but 10x RG<whatever> is *still* well above (6.6times, IIRC)
the SPEED_OF_LIGHT. Propagation simply somewhat faster than some
arbitrary piece of coax is simple to demonstrate and indeed
rather boring.

---
If you'd take the time to actually _read_ the next sentence you might
realize that you're merely echoing what I've already written while being
arunmentative for no reason.
---

Now, if you calculate 10C with C = 2E9m/s, (the slower of the two
possibilities) the Vp through the cable comes out to 20E10, still faster
than C in vacuo so no matter what, he's claiming a pulse will propagate
down his cable faster than it would in free space. With me so far? OK.

Way ahead of you, in fact.

---
Then you're running when you should be walking and you've some scenery
along the way.
---

Now, although it's my personal belief that his cable will not exhibit
FTL behavior, my test setup will easily determine whether it does or
not.

Good grief, it wouldn't take too much of a setup to show this.
Indeed it would take quite a setup to show *faster* than light
propagation!

---
Yes, the test setup is primitive and necessarily so since that's what's
needed to demonstrate a no-brainer. As for the rest of it, other than
the detection of Cerenkov radiation, what would you suggest as a setup
to detect FTL propagation?
---

The 20 meters of RG-58 used for a reference is just that, and will
only serve to indicate that a pulse launched earlier has travelled
through 20m of coax.

I don't think it shows much of anything, but you're free to
follow Orman's prescribed test.

---
Regardless of what you think it shows, in fact, that a pulse was
generated and that it's acting as expected in the real world.

Don't be condescending if you're interested in continuing this dialogue
without being insulted.

a single edge. A TDR would be an interesting tool, as well.

---
No, it wouldn't, since a properly terminated cable will reflect none of
the energy it carries.
---

Look at it this way: If I connect 20m of RG 58 to
a 50 ohm source and terminate it with a 50 ohm load, then launch a
pulse into it, I'll expect to see the leading edge of the pulse appear
across the 50 ohm termination about 91ns after I launch it.

Ok. The numbers work.

Now let's
say that I trigger a scope with the pulse as it's being launched and
that I connect the far end of the cable to the 50 ohm input of a fast
scope. If I have the sweep time set for 10ns per box and launch a pulse
down the cable I should see the leading edge of the pulse appear at
about 9 boxes from T0.

Ok, why aren't we looking at the launched pulse? I don't see the
"reference" coax as being particularly interesting here.

---
The premise is that since the incident pulse is triggering the sweep
when it's launched into the cables, viewing it is unnecessary. However,
it's a simple matter to arrange the equipment to view it:

PULSE GEN
+----------+
| OUT|-------+--[50R]----[50 OHM COAX]----------+
| GND|--+ | |
+----------+ | +--[50R]----[ORMAN BSCABLE]--+ |
| | | |
| +--+------------+ | |
| |C VERT A VERT|---------------+ |
| | | | |
| | B VERT|---------------------|
| +---------------+ | |
| [50R] [50R]
| | |
GND GND GND

Just trigger off the C input.
---

Now, assuming I connect Orman's cable to the
pulse generator properly and launch a single pulse into both cables at
the same time, if Orman's cable is performing as specified, I should see
the leading of the pulse emanating from his cable at about 0.9 boxes and
the leading edge of the pulse emanating from the RG-58 at about 9 boxes.

If his FTL exists (and we both agree he FOS) I wouldn't know what
to expect. Your .9 "box" is a simple Newtonian explanation, but
I'd be looking for something sourced by the load (I.e. negative
time).

---
Yes, it's a simple extrapolation and I don't expect that it will occur.

BTW, If you don't know what to expect why would you be looking for
something sourced by the load?^)
---

Matter of fact, for Orman's cable to exhibit FTL behavior with C=3E9m/s,
his leading edge would only have to appear slightly before 6 boxes, so
no matter what he means by 10C I can shoot him down.

He's so full of holes now it doesn't matter how many more boxes
he falls into.
ü
As for the rest of your rhetoric, get a fucking clue.

Fair enough. I didn't know anyone here was so serious about such
nonsense. Gotta have fun when the sun shines.

---
Nonsense? It's all relative...

--
John Fields

 

[John Fields]

On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:06:05 -0500, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

Well, let's see...

Let's say that I have an RF pulse generator generating 1GHz pulses 1ľs
wide and that the output of the generator is connected, through a
splitter, to an antenna and to a 100 meter length of coaxial cable
terminated in its characteristic impedance. Let's also say that the
cable is extended to its full length and that one vertical amplifier of
a fast oscilloscope is connected to the far end of the cable. let's
also say that we have an antenna physically separated from the
transmitting antenna by 100 meters and that it's connected to another
vertical amplifier input of the scope.

Now let's start sending pulses and sync the scope to the leading edge of
the first cycle of each pulse it receives.

---
From the antenna
---

I believe you will notice that the pulse from the cable arrives at the
scope quite a bit later than the pulse from the antenna, which would not
be the case if C was constant.

--
John Fields

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that John Fields <jfields@austininstrum
ents.com> wrote (in <hdp7pv0p33msjfr3aed5creijn0u69vjnv@4ax.com&gt about
'FTL evidence patent Einstein false science ............................
.........................................................................
...................................................', on Mon, 20 Oct
2003:

What I think is amazing is that the length of the meter comes so very
close to being integer-related to the speed of light with (AFAIK) no a
priori knowledge of C. Bodes well for the metric system.

The columnist 'Free Grid' in 'Wireless World', many years ago, advocated
the adoption of the unit 'barefoot', of 29.9797 cm.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!

 

[Harry Dellamano]

"John Woodgate" <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote in message
newsAKWWdDp+Cl$EwNT@jmwa.demon.co.uk...

2003:
What I think is amazing is that the length of the meter comes so very
close to being integer-related to the speed of light with (AFAIK) no a
priori knowledge of C. Bodes well for the metric system.

The columnist 'Free Grid' in 'Wireless World', many years ago, advocated
the adoption of the unit 'barefoot', of 29.9797 cm.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk

Say what! C= 1foot/nanosecond.

regards
harry

 

[Michael]

All costs are paid and you can damage it, no problem, it can be easily
repaired.

Cool, might come in handy if you need to jump start your car.

 

[Al Yeager]

Hey, wait a minute ! Your web site has 10Mbit cable for $150.00 per
meter. If this is the same stuff then you're out to rake somebody for
quite a huge sum of cash!

I.E. 20m x $150.00/m < > $100,000

Mathew Orman wrote:

"Rene Tschaggelar" <none@none.none> wrote in message
news:a1a522a320b041ef545ae997cb7ed918@news.teranews.com...
Mathew Orman wrote:
For sale at eBay starting price: $100,000.00 !


Unfortunately it doesn't specify neither length, nor bandwidth.
Could you add that information ?

Rene
--
Ing.Buero R.Tschaggelar - http://www.ibrtses.com
& commercial newsgroups - http://www.talkto.net


20 m long, 10MBit/sec, 6ns transient.

Sincerely,

Mathew Orman
www.ultra-faster-than-light.com
www.radio-faster-than-light.com