For All the Michael Moore Fans

J

Jim Thompson

Guest
Letter-to-Editor in today's EV Tribune (Phoenix)....

Moore film falsely depicts flight of Saudis

Michael Moore's movie, "Fahrenheit 9/ll" informs us I that,
immediately after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, while U.S.
airspace was closed to all commercial traffic, Bush arranged for a
special flight to secretly spirit Bush's friends, Bin Laden family
members, safely out of the country.

The reality is the bin Laden's didn't leave the U.S. until U.S.
airspace was re-opened and not at the arrangement of Bush but at the
urging of "terror czar" Richard Clark's of 9/11 commission fame, who
informed them that the U.S. couldn't ensure their safety.

You remember him. He was the guy who told reporters in an August 2002
interview that Bush initiated a project, in the first week of
February, 2001, to "increase CIA resources, for example the covert
action, fivefold (over Clinton's efforts), to go after al-Qaida" and
then went on to make verbatim contradictions of such statements before
the 9/11 commission (with his new Bush-bash book just hitting the
markets).

Moore is laughing at us foolish Americans all the way to the bank.

DENIS EGAN
SCOTTSDALE





...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:kr6je096pvq88hb50qitg80a7r8c1vj8s4@4ax.com...
: Letter-to-Editor in today's EV Tribune (Phoenix)....
:
: Moore film falsely depicts flight of Saudis
:
: Michael Moore's movie, "Fahrenheit 9/ll" informs us I that,
: immediately after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, while
U.S.
: airspace was closed to all commercial traffic, Bush arranged for
a
: special flight to secretly spirit Bush's friends, Bin Laden
family
: members, safely out of the country.
:
: The reality is the bin Laden's didn't leave the U.S. until U.S.
: airspace was re-opened and not at the arrangement of Bush but at
the
: urging of "terror czar" Richard Clark's of 9/11 commission fame,
who
: informed them that the U.S. couldn't ensure their safety.
:
: You remember him. He was the guy who told reporters in an
August 2002
: interview that Bush initiated a project, in the first week of
: February, 2001, to "increase CIA resources, for example the
covert
: action, fivefold (over Clinton's efforts), to go after al-Qaida"
and
: then went on to make verbatim contradictions of such statements
before
: the 9/11 commission (with his new Bush-bash book just hitting
the
: markets).
:
: Moore is laughing at us foolish Americans all the way to the
bank.
:
: DENIS EGAN
: SCOTTSDALE
: ...Jim Thompson


The Orange County Register did a feature piece in the Sunday
(last) edition. Debunked the entire movie. (It is NOT a
documentary!) Seems our Mr. Moore is a consummate liar! But you
all knew that! Right!

He uses actual film footage and implies, or infers some wrong
doing, then calls it a documentary due to using stock film
footage. He gets even more imaginative after that!

The frightening thing to me is that I have met some people who
believe every word without checking for themselves, and they
Vote!! Bad news for our country! (And the World)
 
On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 11:21:11 -0700, Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

Letter-to-Editor in today's EV Tribune (Phoenix)....

Moore film falsely depicts flight of Saudis

Michael Moore's movie, "Fahrenheit 9/ll" informs us I that,
immediately after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, while U.S.
airspace was closed to all commercial traffic, Bush arranged for a
special flight to secretly spirit Bush's friends, Bin Laden family
members, safely out of the country.

The reality is the bin Laden's didn't leave the U.S. until U.S.
airspace was re-opened and not at the arrangement of Bush but at the
urging of "terror czar" Richard Clark's of 9/11 commission fame, who
informed them that the U.S. couldn't ensure their safety.

You remember him. He was the guy who told reporters in an August 2002
interview that Bush initiated a project, in the first week of
February, 2001, to "increase CIA resources, for example the covert
action, fivefold (over Clinton's efforts), to go after al-Qaida" and
then went on to make verbatim contradictions of such statements before
the 9/11 commission (with his new Bush-bash book just hitting the
markets).

Moore is laughing at us foolish Americans all the way to the bank.

DENIS EGAN
SCOTTSDALE





...Jim Thompson
Click to expand...

Moore is just another step in the mindless cartoonization of American
politics, following in the footsteps of Ivans, Limbaugh, Conason, and
Coulter. Fortunately, we still have have a few thoughtful journalists,
and lots of people with common sense who inhabit the "flyover
territory" between the coasts. Americans are not, by nature, mean
people, and I expect an eventual reaction against all this meanness.

MM is especially annoying. He's getting rich off the American public
by telling us how stupid we are, thus proving himself correct.

John
 
On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 12:02:48 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> wrote:

[snip]
Moore is just another step in the mindless cartoonization of American
politics, following in the footsteps of Ivans, Limbaugh, Conason, and
Coulter. Fortunately, we still have have a few thoughtful journalists,
and lots of people with common sense who inhabit the "flyover
territory" between the coasts. Americans are not, by nature, mean
people, and I expect an eventual reaction against all this meanness.

MM is especially annoying. He's getting rich off the American public
by telling us how stupid we are, thus proving himself correct.

John
Click to expand...
Yep. I contributed to his banking account by going to see his
diatribe, because I wanted to know what propaganda he was spouting.

"N" was so bored she wanted to leave, but we stuck it out to the end.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
John Larkin wrote:

Moore is just another step in the mindless cartoonization of American
politics,
Click to expand...
I like that observation,

Americans are not, by nature, mean
people, and I expect an eventual reaction against all this meanness.
Click to expand...
The smoldering embers are being stoked. The Democrats and Republicans
are like a crack-whore mom and a drunken dad, threatening to burn the
house down if they can't spend the children s milk-money on their
personal drug of choice.

(the metaphor, for those that don't get it, is Democrats bribe voters
with entitlements, Republicans bribe corporations, both parties import
immigrants to use as fresh toilet-paper.)

MM is especially annoying. He's getting rich off the American public
by telling us how stupid we are, thus proving himself correct.
Click to expand...
A humorous book review by some other mean people:
"Michael Moore Is A Big Fat Stupid White Man"

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/6/23/165945.shtml

I half suspect Moore is a CIA shill. The more people like Moore and
Kennedy bash bush, the more Repugs rally to defense.

Stupid suckers.

--
Scott

**********************************

DIY Piezo-Gyro, PCB Drill Bot & More Soon!

http://home.comcast.net/~scottxs/

**********************************
 
"John Larkin" wrote:
. . .
Moore is just another step in the mindless cartoonization of
American politics, following in the footsteps of Ivans, Limbaugh,
Conason, and Coulter. Fortunately, we still have have a few
thoughtful journalists, and lots of people with common sense who
inhabit the "flyover territory" between the coasts. Americans are
not, by nature, mean people, and I expect an eventual reaction
against all this meanness.

MM is especially annoying. He's getting rich off the American
public by telling us how stupid we are, thus proving himself
correct.

John
Click to expand...
MM is losing some intelligent supporters. Any of you near silicon valley
may have seen the cover story of the San Jose Mercury News Entertainment
Guide when it reviewed the 9/11 film (25 June 2004), "Michael Moore Misses
His Mark," by critic Glenn Lovell, a "huge fan" of Moore's _Bowling for
Columbine_ and evidently no friend of Bush. Interior title was "Subpar
propaganda." Lovell wrote "... so smug in its position, so cavalier in its
documentation, that I left feeling more hoodwinked than enlightened. ... In
his rush to portray Bush as both con artist and boob, he leaves no
conspiracy theory unaired, no cheap shot untaken."

Moore does seem to be gaining some fans though, it's evident on newsgroups.
Not everyone examines the thing critically as Lovell did, some make clear
that their criterion for judging the documentary merit of the movie is that
they like it. (This sort of thing used to be called demagoguery.)
 
Gosh Jim, you should have at least paid to see
Harry Potter, and then snuck into the MM
film. That way he wouldn't be paid with good
republican money.

-Chuck Harris


Jim Thompson wrote:
On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 12:02:48 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> wrote:

[snip]

Moore is just another step in the mindless cartoonization of American
politics, following in the footsteps of Ivans, Limbaugh, Conason, and
Coulter. Fortunately, we still have have a few thoughtful journalists,
and lots of people with common sense who inhabit the "flyover
territory" between the coasts. Americans are not, by nature, mean
people, and I expect an eventual reaction against all this meanness.

MM is especially annoying. He's getting rich off the American public
by telling us how stupid we are, thus proving himself correct.

John




Yep. I contributed to his banking account by going to see his
diatribe, because I wanted to know what propaganda he was spouting.

"N" was so bored she wanted to leave, but we stuck it out to the end.

...Jim Thompson
Click to expand...
 
On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 17:45:44 -0400, Chuck Harris
<cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote:

Gosh Jim, you should have at least paid to see
Harry Potter, and then snuck into the MM
film. That way he wouldn't be paid with good
republican money.

-Chuck Harris


[snip]
Click to expand...

I went on the second day of its showing. The demand was so great that
you queued up in a line outside the theater (indoors, this is one of
those 40-theater thingies), and an off-duty cop checked your ticket
stub.

And Harry Potter isn't my thing, though all the granddaughters are
avid fans.

I'm not as Republican as you might think. While registered*
Republican, and a serious hawk, I'm probably more attuned to
Libertarian thought. I absolutely don't like some Republican party
stances as regards religion, abortion, and gays (though I think we
need it to be called civil union and *not* marriage) .

* To vote in a primary in AZ you have to be Democrat or Republican.

It will surprise many here to learn that AZ is almost exactly split
50%/50% Democrat/Republican and that we have a Democrat, female,
governor... a true crap-head, perfect replica of Janet Reno ;-)

But Democrats here tend to be more right wing than East Coast
Republicans ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
Roger Gt wrote:

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:kr6je096pvq88hb50qitg80a7r8c1vj8s4@4ax.com...
: Letter-to-Editor in today's EV Tribune (Phoenix)....
:
: Moore film falsely depicts flight of Saudis
:
: Michael Moore's movie, "Fahrenheit 9/ll" informs us I that,
: immediately after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, while
U.S.
: airspace was closed to all commercial traffic, Bush arranged for
a
: special flight to secretly spirit Bush's friends, Bin Laden
family
: members, safely out of the country.
:
: The reality is the bin Laden's didn't leave the U.S. until U.S.
: airspace was re-opened and not at the arrangement of Bush but at
the
: urging of "terror czar" Richard Clark's of 9/11 commission fame,
who
: informed them that the U.S. couldn't ensure their safety.
:
: You remember him. He was the guy who told reporters in an
August 2002
: interview that Bush initiated a project, in the first week of
: February, 2001, to "increase CIA resources, for example the
covert
: action, fivefold (over Clinton's efforts), to go after al-Qaida"
and
: then went on to make verbatim contradictions of such statements
before
: the 9/11 commission (with his new Bush-bash book just hitting
the
: markets).
:
: Moore is laughing at us foolish Americans all the way to the
bank.
:
: DENIS EGAN
: SCOTTSDALE
: ...Jim Thompson


The Orange County Register did a feature piece in the Sunday
(last) edition. Debunked the entire movie. (It is NOT a
documentary!) Seems our Mr. Moore is a consummate liar! But you
all knew that! Right!

He uses actual film footage and implies, or infers some wrong
doing, then calls it a documentary due to using stock film
footage. He gets even more imaginative after that!

The frightening thing to me is that I have met some people who
believe every word without checking for themselves, and they
Vote!! Bad news for our country! (And the World)
Click to expand...
Oh, but lies don't matter as long as you come out with the "right"
opinion and vote for the "right" party, right? ...means to an end, and
all.

--
Keith
 
on Monday 05 July 2004 03:11 pm, Jim Thompson wrote:

On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 17:45:44 -0400, Chuck Harris
cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote:

Gosh Jim, you should have at least paid to see
Harry Potter, and then snuck into the MM
film. That way he wouldn't be paid with good
republican money.

-Chuck Harris


[snip]

I went on the second day of its showing. The demand was so great that
you queued up in a line outside the theater (indoors, this is one of
those 40-theater thingies), and an off-duty cop checked your ticket
stub.
Click to expand...
We have The King Of The Krelboins checking stubs at ours. There's
something ooky about a nerd on a power trip.

And Harry Potter isn't my thing, though all the granddaughters are
avid fans.
Click to expand...
Stepford Wives? ;-)

I'm not as Republican as you might think. While registered*
Republican, and a serious hawk, I'm probably more attuned to
Libertarian thought. I absolutely don't like some Republican party
stances as regards religion, abortion, and gays (though I think we
need it to be called civil union and *not* marriage) .

* To vote in a primary in AZ you have to be Democrat or Republican.

It will surprise many here to learn that AZ is almost exactly split
50%/50% Democrat/Republican and that we have a Democrat, female,
governor... a true crap-head, perfect replica of Janet Reno ;-)

But Democrats here tend to be more right wing than East Coast
Republicans ;-)
Click to expand...
Heh - What would a Democrat Cowboy be like?
--
Cheers!
Rich
 
On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 11:21:11 -0700, the highly esteemed Jim Thompson
enlightened us with these pearls of wisdom:

Letter-to-Editor in today's EV Tribune (Phoenix)....

Moore film falsely depicts flight of Saudis

Michael Moore's movie, "Fahrenheit 9/ll" informs us I that, immediately
after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, while U.S. airspace was
closed to all commercial traffic, Bush arranged for a special flight to
secretly spirit Bush's friends, Bin Laden family members, safely out of
the country.

The reality is the bin Laden's didn't leave the U.S. until U.S. airspace
was re-opened and not at the arrangement of Bush but at the urging of
"terror czar" Richard Clark's of 9/11 commission fame, who informed them
that the U.S. couldn't ensure their safety.

You remember him. He was the guy who told reporters in an August 2002
interview that Bush initiated a project, in the first week of February,
2001, to "increase CIA resources, for example the covert action, fivefold
(over Clinton's efforts), to go after al-Qaida" and then went on to make
verbatim contradictions of such statements before the 9/11 commission
(with his new Bush-bash book just hitting the markets).

Moore is laughing at us foolish Americans all the way to the bank.

DENIS EGAN
SCOTTSDALE





...Jim Thompson
Click to expand...
You know Moore is full of shit when a Lefty like Christopher Hitchens
debunks his film. Check this out: http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/


--
Greg
 
Whatever Moore's mis-perceptions or fallacies, they pale in comparison and
are inconsequential compared to the Bush administrations' lies and
incompetence.
Bush is an incompetent fool, and this administration did not protect us.
Let's not forget: 9/11 happened on George's watch.
Bush has had fewer press conferences than any president in modern history.
Becuase he simply cannot be held accountable. He had to have Cheney hold his
hand in front of the 9/11 comission.

I have not seen Fahrenheit 9/11 yet, but all the critiques I have read so
far have done little to show me blatant misrepresentations.
To me, it is not about Michael Moore. It is about this country's leaders
being held accountable. That's called a democracy, remember what that is?


The reality is the bin Laden's didn't leave the U.S. until U.S.
airspace was re-opened
Click to expand...
That is not true.

and not at the arrangement of Bush but at the
urging of "terror czar" Richard Clark's of 9/11 commission fame, who
informed them that the U.S. couldn't ensure their safety.
Click to expand...
Then why didn't we keep them at Andrews AFB for interrogation? If my brother
drove a plane into the Sears tower, do you think I could leave the country
without being questioned because I haven't talked to him in 10 years? Are
you fuc--- kidding me??

You remember him. He was the guy who told reporters in an August 2002
interview that Bush initiated a project, in the first week of
February, 2001, to "increase CIA resources, for example the covert
action, fivefold (over Clinton's efforts),
Click to expand...
How could it be over Cinton's efforts if Clinton was not President?

to go after al-Qaida" and then went on to make verbatim contradictions
Click to expand...
Show me a verbatim contradiction. I want to see it.

of such statements before the 9/11 commission (with his new Bush-bash book
just hitting the
markets).
Click to expand...
Well, since it is a Bush-bash book, then I guess nothing in it has any
merit, right?

It always amazes me how engineer types can be so analytical when it comes to
circuits and physics, but cannot parse false rhetoric or just plain
bullshit.








"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:kr6je096pvq88hb50qitg80a7r8c1vj8s4@4ax.com...
Letter-to-Editor in today's EV Tribune (Phoenix)....

Moore film falsely depicts flight of Saudis

Michael Moore's movie, "Fahrenheit 9/ll" informs us I that,
immediately after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, while U.S.
airspace was closed to all commercial traffic, Bush arranged for a
special flight to secretly spirit Bush's friends, Bin Laden family
members, safely out of the country.

Moore is laughing at us foolish Americans all the way to the bank.

DENIS EGAN
SCOTTSDALE





...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Click to expand...
 
"slecky" <slecky@_muck_web.com> wrote in message
news:10ek87hlejb8o03@corp.supernews.com...
: Whatever Moore's mis-perceptions or fallacies, they pale in
comparison and
: are inconsequential compared to the Bush administrations' lies
and
: incompetence.
: Bush is an incompetent fool, and this administration did not
protect us.
: Let's not forget: 9/11 happened on George's watch.
: Bush has had fewer press conferences than any president in
modern history.
: Becuase he simply cannot be held accountable. He had to have
Cheney hold his
: hand in front of the 9/11 comission.
:
: I have not seen Fahrenheit 9/11 yet, but all the critiques I
have read so
: far have done little to show me blatant misrepresentations.
: To me, it is not about Michael Moore. It is about this country's
leaders
: being held accountable. That's called a democracy, remember what
that is?
:
:
: > The reality is the bin Laden's didn't leave the U.S. until
U.S.
: > airspace was re-opened
:
: That is not true.
:
: >and not at the arrangement of Bush but at the
: > urging of "terror czar" Richard Clark's of 9/11 commission
fame, who
: > informed them that the U.S. couldn't ensure their safety.
:
: Then why didn't we keep them at Andrews AFB for interrogation?
If my brother
: drove a plane into the Sears tower, do you think I could leave
the country
: without being questioned because I haven't talked to him in 10
years? Are
: you fuc--- kidding me??
:
: > You remember him. He was the guy who told reporters in an
August 2002
: > interview that Bush initiated a project, in the first week of
: > February, 2001, to "increase CIA resources, for example the
covert
: > action, fivefold (over Clinton's efforts),
:
: How could it be over Cinton's efforts if Clinton was not
President?
:
: > to go after al-Qaida" and then went on to make verbatim
contradictions
:
: Show me a verbatim contradiction. I want to see it.
:
: >of such statements before the 9/11 commission (with his new
Bush-bash book
: just hitting the
: > markets).
:
: Well, since it is a Bush-bash book, then I guess nothing in it
has any
: merit, right?
:
: It always amazes me how engineer types can be so analytical when
it comes to
: circuits and physics, but cannot parse false rhetoric or just
plain
: bullshit.
:

Here is a prime example of how to be completely neutral and
carefully analyze each and every statement of a "documentary" from
an award winning producer who is totally neutral in his politics!
No bias there! So we should all pay attention to his rambling
diatribe? Well -- Everyone should be heard! Makes things easier
to understand to have such an expert and intellectual review.

To bad he spoiled it by being a TOP POSTER!
 
I never fail to be amazed at how upset some people get at the alleged
lies of Moore yet accept without a peep far more harmful lies put out
by Bush and his stooges. Welcome to 1984.


On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 11:21:11 -0700, Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

Letter-to-Editor in today's EV Tribune (Phoenix)....

Moore film falsely depicts flight of Saudis

Michael Moore's movie, "Fahrenheit 9/ll" informs us I that,
immediately after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, while U.S.
airspace was closed to all commercial traffic, Bush arranged for a
special flight to secretly spirit Bush's friends, Bin Laden family
members, safely out of the country.

The reality is the bin Laden's didn't leave the U.S. until U.S.
airspace was re-opened and not at the arrangement of Bush but at the
urging of "terror czar" Richard Clark's of 9/11 commission fame, who
informed them that the U.S. couldn't ensure their safety.

You remember him. He was the guy who told reporters in an August 2002
interview that Bush initiated a project, in the first week of
February, 2001, to "increase CIA resources, for example the covert
action, fivefold (over Clinton's efforts), to go after al-Qaida" and
then went on to make verbatim contradictions of such statements before
the 9/11 commission (with his new Bush-bash book just hitting the
markets).

Moore is laughing at us foolish Americans all the way to the bank.

DENIS EGAN
SCOTTSDALE





...Jim Thompson
Click to expand...
--
Elbridge Gerry, of Massachusetts:

"What, sir, is the use of militia? It is to prevent the
establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty. . .
Whenever Government means to invade the rights and liberties of
the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order
to raise a standing army upon its ruins." -- Debate, U.S. House
of Representatives, August 17, 1789
 
On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 22:53:11 -0700, AZGuy <jimnazSPAMOUT@cox.net> wrote:

I never fail to be amazed at how upset some people get at the alleged
lies of Moore yet accept without a peep far more harmful lies put out
by Bush and his stooges. Welcome to 1984.
Click to expand...
I agree, but let's look at this.

Moore is biased. Everyone seems acknowledge that. I do too. I don't even
think his movie is really that effective, but it IS an attempt to get
people thinking. Maybe a failed attempt. I doubt if very many people
leave the theater with significantly changed perspectives.

With all the media in our lives our whole world seems to be determined
by "spin" and its success rate. So Michael Moore CAN be accued of spin
in this documentary. What, about similar issues like the lack of WMDs,
is escaping his attackers. Any skewing of information in this movie does
not come close to the world-wide propaganda blitz created by this
president and his advisers that started a war with justification that
has obviously been proven false.

A whole damn war! With death and destruction, human upheaval, grieving
families on both sides, and massive economic cost and burden on society.
And I am talking about Iraq, not Afghanistan, where we never really
tried hard to get the real terrorists.

In our recent rewrite, this war was to depose a brutal tyrant. America
wouldn't be there if that was the original story. The original story was
based on revenge and fear. Lets go kill some of those terrorist bastards
before they get us.

I walked the ground in Vietnam with a rifle in my hands. Most of the old
farts in this group will remember that period well. I came out of it
proud for my service and knowing that eventually we may have to go to
war again, but hoping we would only do that when there was a clear enemy
and a reason beyond reproach.

When the American public was being sold the story that got us into Iraq,
I kept asking myself why there was no presentation of concrete
justification. (Where's the beef? as that old TV ad said.) One night I
met a guy from Australia and he reassured me that since his government
was buying into the program, there must be something there that we, as
common folk, weren't being allowed to know that justified the idea. I
think that reassured me too much. I was looking for a reason to believe.
As it started I wanted to believe, and pretty much did believe, we were
doing the right thing.

So all this happened, and I support our troups who, like me (then), are
doing the bidding of their government whether it really makes sense or
not. So far no one has stooped to attacking the soldiers much, and I
hope that doesn't happen. A few, like the prison guards, might be in
deep trouble though, and I am sure this government could easily write
them off with the other casualties.

As for this newsgroup, why are so many engineers down on Michael Moore?
You guys are usually so logical in everything you do. The biggest and
most obvious lie (and how can you argue the WMD thing) was the one that
got this war started. Why the disjoint in attributing where the lies
are? Be reasonable. Attack the BIG liar, not the one who made this
little movie.

-Rex

P.S., I voted for Bush thinking he might be good for the economy. We all
make mistakes. I admit this one.
 
Jim Thompson wrote:
On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 17:45:44 -0400, Chuck Harris
cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote:


Gosh Jim, you should have at least paid to see
Harry Potter, and then snuck into the MM
film. That way he wouldn't be paid with good
republican money.

-Chuck Harris



[snip]

I went on the second day of its showing. The demand was so great that
you queued up in a line outside the theater (indoors, this is one of
those 40-theater thingies), and an off-duty cop checked your ticket
stub.

And Harry Potter isn't my thing, though all the granddaughters are
avid fans.
Click to expand...
That's why I said to buy the Harry Potter ticket, and then watch the
MM movie.

I'm not as Republican as you might think. While registered*
Republican, and a serious hawk, I'm probably more attuned to
Libertarian thought. I absolutely don't like some Republican party
stances as regards religion, abortion, and gays (though I think we
need it to be called civil union and *not* marriage) .
Click to expand...
I started out as an avid Democrat. All Marylanders must, I suppose.
As I started to get my career in place, I got pissed with the party's
attitude that the state knows what is best for you. At the last time
I looked, 1/3 of the US population works for the "government"... and
more than 50% of my income goes to taxes and fees. Is it any wonder
that the US standard of living is heading for the dump?

I spent a few years vacillating over whether abortion rights were
more important than gun ownership. I finally decided that with the
power that women have achieved in our society, it would be nearly
impossible for the "right-to-lifer's" to completely outlaw abortion,
so gun control became my litmus test for a candidate. If a candidate
was for gun control, I was against absolutely against him!

It is kind of paradoxical, that for the first part of my life as a voter
I fought for legalized abortion, a predominantly women's issue, and for
the second part, I fought against gun control, also a predominantly
women's issue.

My beliefs fit firmly in the libertarian camp, but that doesn't really
matter politically, as the libertarians are a hopeless party. If you
want gun control and legal abortion, you vote democrat. If you want
gun freedom, and abortion, you vote Republican. The women are never
going to allow abortion to become illegal again, so that makes abortion
pretty much a moot issue.

-Chuck
 
"xray" <notreally@hotmail.invalid> wrote in message
news:cntke0lo914lloi175enc10pbep65pavcj@4ax.com...
On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 22:53:11 -0700, AZGuy <jimnazSPAMOUT@cox.net> wrote:

I never fail to be amazed at how upset some people get at the alleged
lies of Moore yet accept without a peep far more harmful lies put out
by Bush and his stooges. Welcome to 1984.


I agree, but let's look at this.

Moore is biased. Everyone seems acknowledge that. I do too. I don't even
think his movie is really that effective, but it IS an attempt to get
people thinking. Maybe a failed attempt. I doubt if very many people
leave the theater with significantly changed perspectives.

With all the media in our lives our whole world seems to be determined
by "spin" and its success rate. So Michael Moore CAN be accued of spin
in this documentary. What, about similar issues like the lack of WMDs,
is escaping his attackers. Any skewing of information in this movie does
not come close to the world-wide propaganda blitz created by this
president and his advisers that started a war with justification that
has obviously been proven false.

A whole damn war! With death and destruction, human upheaval, grieving
families on both sides, and massive economic cost and burden on society.
And I am talking about Iraq, not Afghanistan, where we never really
tried hard to get the real terrorists.

In our recent rewrite, this war was to depose a brutal tyrant. America
wouldn't be there if that was the original story. The original story was
based on revenge and fear. Lets go kill some of those terrorist bastards
before they get us.

I walked the ground in Vietnam with a rifle in my hands. Most of the old
farts in this group will remember that period well. I came out of it
proud for my service and knowing that eventually we may have to go to
war again, but hoping we would only do that when there was a clear enemy
and a reason beyond reproach.

When the American public was being sold the story that got us into Iraq,
I kept asking myself why there was no presentation of concrete
justification. (Where's the beef? as that old TV ad said.) One night I
met a guy from Australia and he reassured me that since his government
was buying into the program, there must be something there that we, as
common folk, weren't being allowed to know that justified the idea. I
think that reassured me too much. I was looking for a reason to believe.
As it started I wanted to believe, and pretty much did believe, we were
doing the right thing.

So all this happened, and I support our troups who, like me (then), are
doing the bidding of their government whether it really makes sense or
not. So far no one has stooped to attacking the soldiers much, and I
hope that doesn't happen. A few, like the prison guards, might be in
deep trouble though, and I am sure this government could easily write
them off with the other casualties.

As for this newsgroup, why are so many engineers down on Michael Moore?
You guys are usually so logical in everything you do. The biggest and
most obvious lie (and how can you argue the WMD thing) was the one that
got this war started. Why the disjoint in attributing where the lies
are? Be reasonable. Attack the BIG liar, not the one who made this
little movie.

-Rex

P.S., I voted for Bush thinking he might be good for the economy. We all
make mistakes. I admit this one.

What I would like to know is why do you think the average reader of this
Click to expand...
group (electronics.design)gives a FLYING FUCK about your political opinions
??

--
Regards ........... Rheilly Phoull
 
Greg Pierce wrote:


You know Moore is full of shit when a Lefty like Christopher Hitchens
debunks his film. Check this out: http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/
Click to expand...
Bookmarked for use against the stupid. Thank you.

Mark L. Fergerson
 
Scott Stephens wrote:


The Democrats and Republicans
are like a crack-whore mom and a drunken dad, threatening to burn the
house down if they can't spend the children s milk-money on their
personal drug of choice.
Click to expand...
That is simply beautiful. May I quote you?

(the metaphor, for those that don't get it, is Democrats bribe voters
with entitlements, Republicans bribe corporations, both parties import
immigrants to use as fresh toilet-paper.)
Click to expand...
No wonder us kids (those that don't become similarly
addicted) want to be Libertarians.

Mark L. Fergerson
 
On Tue, 6 Jul 2004 21:09:59 +0800, "Rheilly Phoull"
<Rheilly@bigpong.com> wrote:

What I would like to know is why do you think the average reader of this
group (electronics.design)gives a FLYING FUCK about your political opinions
??

--
Regards ........... Rheilly Phoull
Click to expand...
I don't think most readers care. But if they don't care, then why are
they reading this OT thread in the first place. I didn't start it.

-Rex
 
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