Florescent light bulbs?

[Don Lancaster]

OG wrote:

20W Fluorescent
life 6000 hours (standard) cost $10 (I'll take your figure, but am aware
that it is probably higher than you need pay)
Cost of 1KwH maybe around 10c
lifetime electricity usage 120KwH = $12
total cost 22$

100W incandescent
for 6000 hours you'll get through 6 bulbs, maybe $3
electricity usage = 600KwH = $60
total cost $63.

And the number of centuries it takes a closet light to go through 6000
hours is...?


--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: don@tinaja.com

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

 

Jonathan Kirwan wrote:

On 7 Dec 2006 09:32:25 -0800, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:

[snip]

Other benefits are: time saved in replacing bulbs, fewer trips to the
store, etc.

Only if your experiences were mine. Sadly, they aren't.

Right. Obviously there are no benefits to an unreliable product.

Ideas: they're electronic, ergo zappable.
o Maybe you've got glitchy power? (Mine is super clean--no outages for
years.)
o Base-up mounted CFLs in sealed enclosures can cook themselves to
death.
o Shoddy construction?

Cracking a failed unit open and checking transistors & electrolytics
would answer a lot.

My current bathroom unit is a SunPark brand, model SP-20L, in service
for years The heavily-used kitchen overhead, a Lights Of America brand
model 2420, has been working for years. Another heavily-used is in the
kitchen hood light, a Commercial Electric model ES20, SKU #738-703
(pretty sure I got it at Home Depot). It strikes and lights instantly
at reduced output--I like that--then brightens up over the next minute
or so.

Best,
James Arthur

 

[Eeyore]

Don Lancaster wrote:

One of the major problems in all hydrogen vehicles would be the flooding
in thruway low spots.

In whay way is that different to other vehicles ?

Graham

 

[Jonathan Kirwan]

On 7 Dec 2006 13:27:27 -0800, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:

Jonathan Kirwan wrote:
On 7 Dec 2006 09:32:25 -0800, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:

[snip]

Other benefits are: time saved in replacing bulbs, fewer trips to the
store, etc.

Only if your experiences were mine. Sadly, they aren't.

Right. Obviously there are no benefits to an unreliable product.

I'm wishing my experience were different.

Ideas: they're electronic, ergo zappable.
o Maybe you've got glitchy power? (Mine is super clean--no outages for
years.)

It's possible. I haven't put a monitor on our power to see. I don't
see anything different here from other places I've lived, device
operation wise. Other equipment, such as all my scopes, power
supplies, logic analyzers, signal generators, and so on appear to work
fine and as before I moved here in 2002. Similarly, for the usual
complement of household devices. So aside from this, I don't have any
experience that speaks loudly to me. But an instrument set to monitor
the power is the better way to know and I haven't done that.

o Base-up mounted CFLs in sealed enclosures can cook themselves to
death.

I've opened up several dead ones. They look fine, inside. Nothing I
can see is 'toasted.' However, I don't have many lamp stands in the
house (close to 0, maybe 1) so all my lights are inverted so that the
base is above the coiled tube and since heat rises they may indeed get
warm.

o Shoddy construction?

From the data sheet I was looking at, "shoddy" would mean failing to
add parts in a crafted design to intelligently extend their life. So
if by 'shoddy construction' you mean "a design to save every nickel
possible so don't do those things that we know will extend life beyond
some 'far enough out' figure, since that means more cost up front and
less sales against competition that isn't doing it, the customer won't
know the difference, and anyway we want to sell more, not less," then
perhaps you are right about that.

Cracking a failed unit open and checking transistors & electrolytics
would answer a lot.

I've cracked them open. I haven't bothered checking parts, though. I
could do that.

My current bathroom unit is a SunPark brand, model SP-20L, in service
for years The heavily-used kitchen overhead, a Lights Of America brand
model 2420, has been working for years. Another heavily-used is in the
kitchen hood light, a Commercial Electric model ES20, SKU #738-703
(pretty sure I got it at Home Depot). It strikes and lights instantly
at reduced output--I like that--then brightens up over the next minute
or so.

Another possibility is the rms voltage level of our power here. It's
possible that we have an elevated voltage.... Ah, heck... just a
sec... Okay, I am measuring a true RMS of 123.48V here.

Maybe they want something less?

Jon

 

[RichD]

Don Lancaster wrote:

There must be something about Tesla stories that
magnetically attracts funny maths.

Tesla is the patron saint of the Church of the Latter Day Crackpots.

Tesla is famous for being an unknown genius.

--
Many thanks,

Any time.

--
Rich

 

[OG]

"Don Lancaster" <don@tinaja.com> wrote in message
news:4trdfjF15hhpdU4@mid.individual.net...

OG wrote:

20W Fluorescent
life 6000 hours (standard) cost $10 (I'll take your figure, but am aware
that it is probably higher than you need pay)
Cost of 1KwH maybe around 10c
lifetime electricity usage 120KwH = $12
total cost 22$

100W incandescent
for 6000 hours you'll get through 6 bulbs, maybe $3
electricity usage = 600KwH = $60
total cost $63.


And the number of centuries it takes a closet light to go through 6000
hours is...?

Are all the bulbs in your house still in the closet? Is there something
you're not telling us?

 

Jonathan Kirwan wrote:

On 7 Dec 2006 13:27:27 -0800, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:

Jonathan Kirwan wrote:
On 7 Dec 2006 09:32:25 -0800, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:

[snip]

Other benefits are: time saved in replacing bulbs, fewer trips to the
store, etc.

Only if your experiences were mine. Sadly, they aren't.

Right. Obviously there are no benefits to an unreliable product.

I'm wishing my experience were different.

Ideas: they're electronic, ergo zappable.
o Maybe you've got glitchy power? (Mine is super clean--no outages for
years.)

It's possible. I haven't put a monitor on our power to see. I don't
see anything different here from other places I've lived, device
operation wise. Other equipment, such as all my scopes, power
supplies, logic analyzers, signal generators, and so on appear to work
fine and as before I moved here in 2002. Similarly, for the usual
complement of household devices. So aside from this, I don't have any
experience that speaks loudly to me. But an instrument set to monitor
the power is the better way to know and I haven't done that.

o Base-up mounted CFLs in sealed enclosures can cook themselves to
death.

I've opened up several dead ones. They look fine, inside. Nothing I
can see is 'toasted.' However, I don't have many lamp stands in the
house (close to 0, maybe 1) so all my lights are inverted so that the
base is above the coiled tube and since heat rises they may indeed get
warm.

o Shoddy construction?

From the data sheet I was looking at, "shoddy" would mean failing to
add parts in a crafted design to intelligently extend their life. So
if by 'shoddy construction' you mean "a design to save every nickel
possible so don't do those things that we know will extend life beyond
some 'far enough out' figure, since that means more cost up front and
less sales against competition that isn't doing it, the customer won't
know the difference, and anyway we want to sell more, not less," then
perhaps you are right about that.

Cracking a failed unit open and checking transistors & electrolytics
would answer a lot.

I've cracked them open. I haven't bothered checking parts, though. I
could do that.

My current bathroom unit is a SunPark brand, model SP-20L, in service
for years The heavily-used kitchen overhead, a Lights Of America brand
model 2420, has been working for years. Another heavily-used is in the
kitchen hood light, a Commercial Electric model ES20, SKU #738-703
(pretty sure I got it at Home Depot). It strikes and lights instantly
at reduced output--I like that--then brightens up over the next minute
or so.

Another possibility is the rms voltage level of our power here. It's
possible that we have an elevated voltage.... Ah, heck... just a
sec... Okay, I am measuring a true RMS of 123.48V here.

Maybe they want something less?

Okay, I did a post-mortem on the Lights Of America 15-watt, model
2415 bulb that served faithfully for a few years once upon a time,
enclosed, sideways-mounted in my kitchen ceiling light.

Nicely built of discrete parts, with two hefty MJE13005 TO-220
switching transistors, and substantial-looking 105oC-rated
electrolytics. All caps and power semiconductors test fine. Cause of
death: failure (open) of both heaters in the spiral lamp.

A 2nd post-mortem on a Feit Electric 13w model ESL13T--used
(inappropriately) in the GF's garage door opener--shows much lighter
construction, similar electronic topology, but testing all caps and
power semis reveals no failed components. Missing: the spiral tube (I
tossed it). Presumed cause of death: heater failure.

Circuits are approximately as in this web page:
http://pavouk.comp.cz/hw/lamp/en_index.html
(link supplied by Ian Field, from an earlier thread)

Line voltage here meaures 121VAC rms.

HTH,
James Arthur

 

[Zak]

mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:

The local Big Lots had a sale once: 4-pack of 25W (roughly equivalent
to 100W incandescent) compact fluorescents for $2. I bought about 10
packages (40 bulbs).

They're white lights, too - not the yellow ones that you commonly find.
Only other brand I know of that gives white light is Sylvania (hard to
find - from Lowe's) - and we've tried a bunch.

That is called 'color temperature'. The yellowish ones try to match the
color of an incandescent lamp. 2700K usually. The nearest tube color is
3000K in the US I'm told, which is more like the color of halogen. 2700K
tubes are more common in europe.

Less yellow and more bluish CFLs exist. 'Cooler' light is more popular
in warm climates as it is the color of the shadow. I hit on a few and
returned them; not my taste.


Thomas

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Don Lancaster wrote:

OG wrote:

20W Fluorescent
life 6000 hours (standard) cost $10 (I'll take your figure, but am aware
that it is probably higher than you need pay)
Cost of 1KwH maybe around 10c
lifetime electricity usage 120KwH = $12
total cost 22$

100W incandescent
for 6000 hours you'll get through 6 bulbs, maybe $3
electricity usage = 600KwH = $60
total cost $63.


And the number of centuries it takes a closet light to go through 6000
hours is...?

Wouldn't that depend on whether they're out of the closet, or not?


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Glen Walpert]

On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 21:51:52 GMT, Jonathan Kirwan
<jkirwan@easystreet.com> wrote:

<trimmed complaint about unreliable CCFL lights>

Before you give up on CCFLs try some of the newer 12,000 hour or
better rated bulbs. These have soft start which greatly reduces bulb
wear due to frequent cycling, as well as better over and under voltage
protection. 4-packs can be had for $8 at several stores around here,
almost as cheap as those rated less than 12,000 hours.

 

[mensanator@aol.compost]

Zak wrote:

mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:

The local Big Lots had a sale once: 4-pack of 25W (roughly equivalent
to 100W incandescent) compact fluorescents for $2. I bought about 10
packages (40 bulbs).

They're white lights, too - not the yellow ones that you commonly find.
Only other brand I know of that gives white light is Sylvania (hard to
find - from Lowe's) - and we've tried a bunch.

That is called 'color temperature'. The yellowish ones try to match the
color of an incandescent lamp. 2700K usually. The nearest tube color is
3000K in the US I'm told, which is more like the color of halogen. 2700K
tubes are more common in europe.

I didn't like the yellowish tint of a pack I bought. Then I noticed at
the
store that that particular brand comes in 3 different color
temperatures
(and they had a live side-by-side display so you could evaluate them).
I don't remember the brand, but if anyone cares I can look it up.

And not all "75W" CFLs have the same lumen rating.

Less yellow and more bluish CFLs exist. 'Cooler' light is more popular
in warm climates as it is the color of the shadow. I hit on a few and
returned them; not my taste.


Thomas

 

[Bob Kolker]

RichD wrote:

Don Lancaster wrote:

There must be something about Tesla stories that
magnetically attracts funny maths.


Tesla is the patron saint of the Church of the Latter Day Crackpots.


Tesla is famous for being an unknown genius.

Tesla is a very well know genius. He was a tad excentric but his work
produced a.c. motors and generators along with power transmission
systems. Also Tesla invented wireless communication even before Marconi.

He was a tad monomaniacal concerning the wireless transmission of
electrical power.

Bob Kolker

 

[ehsjr]

CoreyWhite wrote:

20%, is what Al Gore said. He would know better than me. What do you
think the electric power needs of the florescents would be? And where
can I buy a Tesla Bulb?

Maybe from that paragon of honesty who claimed he
invented the internet...

 

[Joseph Brenner]

ehsjr <ehsjr@bellatlantic.net> writes:

CoreyWhite wrote:

20%, is what Al Gore said. He would know better than me.
What do you think the electric power needs of the florescents
would be? And where can I buy a Tesla Bulb?

Maybe from that paragon of honesty who claimed he
invented the internet...

Alright, that's at least twice that this one has come up now.
Gore never said that (You physics types may be comfortable with
that kind of sloppy thinking, but here in alt.gothic we hold
people to a higher standard):

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp

 

[Michael Press]

In article
<MPG.1fe2481e77dd078d98977a@news.individual.net>,
Elder <carl.robson@bouncing-czechs.com> wrote:

In article <4tpa9qF155m5sU1@mid.individual.net>,
owen@gwynnefamily.org.uk says...
Wrong about the myth. GW is most probably real - if it wasn't the Petro
companies wouldn't be channeling millions into 'independent organisations'
to attempt to rubbish it.


But who is to say that GW wouldn't happen anyway, even if man hadn't
evolved from apes, even if technology hadn't happened and even if
industrialisation hadn't occured.

We have Global cooling(Ice Ages) as part of the natural cycle, so why
not Global Warming. Maybe we can't do shit to stop it happening, maybe
we are just inconveniencing our selves for nothing, and maybe we are
just paying "green" taxes becauase we are told to and all it is doing is
making government revenue. Maybe the human race is going to get wiped
out at anytime soon anyway, no matter how many solar panels, wind
turbines, BioFuels and organic lentils are installed, consumed or used
as fertiliser.

Global warming is happening, and will happen because
planet Earth is still emerging from another major
glaciation. Unless another volcano blasts a metric
buttload of SO2 into the atmosphere ushering in another
dark ages as in 635 AD. Mankind is such a bunch of
babies thinking they have any influence over anything.
Wankers. Maunder Minimum. Little Ice Age. Google it and
weep. Mary Shelley wrote Frankenstein in 1816, the year
without a summer because of a volcanic eruption. Throw
another log on the fire, I'm feeling a bit chilly.

--
Michael Press

 

[Elder]

In article <45788811.42A778E8@hotmail.com>,
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com says...

Don Lancaster wrote:

One of the major problems in all hydrogen vehicles would be the flooding
in thruway low spots.

In whay way is that different to other vehicles ?

Graham


I think Don is refering to the fact that hydrogen powered vehicles

produce water as their only emission. Too much of it would settle and
cause flooding, not have standing water cause trouble for the vehicles.
--
Carl Robson
Audio stream: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com:8000/samtest
Homepage: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com

 

[Eeyore]

Elder wrote:

rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com says...
Don Lancaster wrote:

One of the major problems in all hydrogen vehicles would be the flooding
in thruway low spots.

In whay way is that different to other vehicles ?

Graham

I think Don is refering to the fact that hydrogen powered vehicles
produce water as their only emission. Too much of it would settle and
cause flooding, not have standing water cause trouble for the vehicles.

LOL !

He has a curious sense of humour.

See you in alt.goth sometime. How come we don't see you so much in the Saab
group any more btw ?

Graham

 

In article <MPG.1fe32dc03bbfb778989785@news.individual.net>, Elder <carl.robson@bouncing-czechs.com> writes:

In article <45788811.42A778E8@hotmail.com>,
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com says...


Don Lancaster wrote:

One of the major problems in all hydrogen vehicles would be the flooding
in thruway low spots.

In whay way is that different to other vehicles ?

Graham


I think Don is refering to the fact that hydrogen powered vehicles
produce water as their only emission. Too much of it would settle and
cause flooding, not have standing water cause trouble for the vehicles.
--
Solar heat evaporates annually some 2-3*10^14 tons of water. Compare

this with any amount of water you'll be producing. Some sense of
proportion is needed.

Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"

 

[Edward Green]

OG wrote:

Yes, it offers a real saving . Not all the energy in your house is used for
lighting, but something like 20-30 % of your energy bills are for lighting,
so you could reduce that to 4-5%, That is the direct equivalent of chopping
16 - 24% off your bill . We have 3 standard incandescent bulbs in our house
( 1 in the fridge, 1 in the oven and 1 in the microwave) all the rest are
fluorescents, and we save about Ł100 / $200 a year as a result.

Well, you shouldn't discount all that free electric heating you get
with incandescents (it's free, because you've already attributed the
cost to lighting). In the winter that waves on fuel bills, and in the
summer it help our airconditioners run longer, to efficiently
dehumidify the air.

[This message brought to you by the Incandescent Bulb Manufactuers
Association]

 

[Elder]

In article <jack-7E25C2.21181807122006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com>,
jack@fake.net says...

In article
MPG.1fe2481e77dd078d98977a@news.individual.net>,
Elder <carl.robson@bouncing-czechs.com> wrote:

In article <4tpa9qF155m5sU1@mid.individual.net>,
owen@gwynnefamily.org.uk says...
Wrong about the myth. GW is most probably real - if it wasn't the Petro
companies wouldn't be channeling millions into 'independent organisations'
to attempt to rubbish it.


But who is to say that GW wouldn't happen anyway, even if man hadn't
evolved from apes, even if technology hadn't happened and even if
industrialisation hadn't occured.

We have Global cooling(Ice Ages) as part of the natural cycle, so why
not Global Warming. Maybe we can't do shit to stop it happening, maybe
we are just inconveniencing our selves for nothing, and maybe we are
just paying "green" taxes becauase we are told to and all it is doing is
making government revenue. Maybe the human race is going to get wiped
out at anytime soon anyway, no matter how many solar panels, wind
turbines, BioFuels and organic lentils are installed, consumed or used
as fertiliser.

Global warming is happening, and will happen because
planet Earth is still emerging from another major
glaciation. Unless another volcano blasts a metric
buttload of SO2 into the atmosphere ushering in another
dark ages as in 635 AD. Mankind is such a bunch of
babies thinking they have any influence over anything.
Wankers. Maunder Minimum. Little Ice Age. Google it and
weep. Mary Shelley wrote Frankenstein in 1816, the year
without a summer because of a volcanic eruption. Throw
another log on the fire, I'm feeling a bit chilly.


But it is a good way to make us pay taxes.

And like good little sheep, the majority of joe public and wife will
bend over to recieve their orders.
I'm no science major but I know enough to know this is a cyclic planet,
and while cooling killed the dinos but not us (at different times)
because we could adapt. We have to adapt again, not adapt the planet.
That can't be done.
--
Carl Robson
Audio stream: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com:8000/samtest
Homepage: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com